New Trading System ideas

Brenticus12

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

What's wrong with current system?

ForzaRammer wrote: »

the current system is perfectly fine

That's not the discussion.

GW2, WoW, SWTOR, any of those models are good to me.

One global AH/trade system.

Are you sure? Because those markets have been ruined by global trade system for anyone that isn't a bot trader lol.

Auztinito

BlueRaven wrote:

Bots need an outlet to sell there wares and the best defense against that are guilds. While the bot owner can maintain a guild on there own, they need a minimum number of accounts, and a guild filled with accounts with members having random letters and numbers is a big red flag.
No guild requirements makes life much easier for bots.

An open AH introduces hyper infraction, as minimum prices can be maintained by only a few rich players. Again bots can simply buy out lower priced “in demand” items and resell them for three times the price. Look at WOW as an example, (or even in the real world look at PS5 sales and the scalping issue).
Basic mats will go through the roof, making just basic mat farming far more toxic. If you think mat farming now is bad, just wait until prices go through the roof. Players will be much more incentivized to “snipe” mats and chests (etc) from other players.

Um. The rich players aren't the ones making things cheaper. Players across the game decide the pricing in open auction houses. The current system benefits only those that are in the wealthy category. It comes off as pay-to-play markets. If anything, you'll see a lot of undercutting. You do know there's actually nothing in place from stopping a guild from controlling market goods and gouging prices currently, right? It would just take one rich guild of traders to monopolize it and then buy out competition but it'll keep these wealthy folks wealthy creating higher prices over time. In short, it's guild supporting guild off the backs of players that aren't in guilds, as well.

BlueRaven wrote:

Guilds in other mmo’s don’t need to maintain certain level of players for functionality. So high school cliques can propagate because usually they don’t “need” you.
Trading guilds need volume, so they need “happy” guildies, which works against bad environment guilds. Bad environment trading guilds are hampered because if they lose players they lose income, and a loss of income means they lose their trading spot.

Also there are plenty social guilds that maintain traders. You don’t have to be be in a trading guild. Join a guild that you have a common interest in (housing, RP, lore, age restricted [whatever]) there are plenty of guilds with traders that fit your interests.

Their are bad guilds true, but it seems to me that there are more “good” guilds then bad ones. And leaving a guild is easy, just find one you are interested in that has a trader.

Here's the problem. In my experience, most players are cool or decent peeps. When it comes to guilds, that good and decency usually goes out the window because guilds build a "culture" that results in in-fighting, ranting, xenophobia, and many other things. It only takes one bad apple to ruin a group, real life is a great example of this.

Sgrug wrote:

There very much is something preventing the prices from getting even higher, it is the current segmented GH structure which an AH would remove, resulting in the items becoming "obnoxiously expensive."

What's stopping a guild from over gouging and buying out competition. The same scenario you're "worried"
about can still happen in this system. Meaning it's pointless to worry about. If bots attempt, that's where ZOS is supposed to ban them but from I'm gathering from the ones against it. Is that you believe that ZOS can't moderate their own MMO and that they're incapable of running the game.

BlueRaven

Auztinito wrote: »

What's stopping a guild from over gouging and buying out competition. The same scenario you're "worried"
about can still happen in this system. Meaning it's pointless to worry about. If bots attempt, that's where ZOS is supposed to ban them but from I'm gathering from the ones against it. Is that you believe that ZOS can't moderate their own MMO and that they're incapable of running the game.

Do you understand how many guild traders there are? Over 200. And they add at least 10 more per year. How are they supposed to cover that?

Go and do a search for an item on ten of them. Go in game and do it, it’s incredibly frustrating, why? Because after about five guild searches the game starts slowing down your requests as a server “spam” defense. Are there people looking for bargains to flip? Yes. Is it a cabal from a super secret guild organizing it? Of course not, it’s logistically impossible.

“Hey guild, keep this a secret but I need at least 100 of you to check 2 guilds each for a particular item to buy out and resell at a particular price. I will have a map of who goes where, what to look for, what they should buy it for. And how much they should resell it for.
When you are done we can move on to item number two...
Oh, only 9 of you showed up. Ok we will try again next hour when we have to start this all over again.”

A single ah will make a single ah bot do the work of 100’s of people.

jle30303

Honestly, I have seen a better trading system, and a better clan / guild system, on the stick-figure parody game "Kingdom of Loathing", than I have in this game.

That's a system that allows every player to have *their own* store, set prices in it, buy a number of items from a stack instead of being forced to buy the entire stack at once, and even set daily limits on a per-item basis so that no individual player can buy more than X of item Y from their store, as a defence against gouging. And people can search the mall to find the lowest prices for a given item, and buy that item if they want it, or indeed, know the half dozen lowest prices so they know what they have to undercut in order to sell.

And if that's possible in an 18-year-old stick figure game which is run by four or five guys out of a living room, why isn't it possible with Zenimax's resources behind it?

Viewsfrom6ix

I've played a lot of MMOs and the best trading system I've experienced is by Runescape. It is like GAH but it has very unique feature, players can create buying and selling listings (ie no direct buying)

Here is a basic example of how it works and let's say people are selling/buying zircon plating

Sell @ 40k
Sell @ 38k
Buy @ 36k
Buy @ 34k

At this point in time, nothing would happen. Why? The sellers are selling too high for their offers to get matched to anything.

Now suppose a 5th player comes along and says "Grr, I want a zircon plating now." He buys one for 50k.

What happens? The system will instantly pair up the offer with the lowest sell offer available -- 38K -- so he will get his zircon plating and 12K back. Thus, he got the best available deal at the time he placed the offer.

Note that the buyer got the cash back here. This is because he placed the most recent offer.

Ok so our 'stack' of offers now looks like this:

Sell @ 40k
Sell @ 38k <--completed
Buy @ 36k
Buy @ 34k

Now suppose someone else comes along and says "Grr, I just want to sell this zircon plating right now." He sells it for 30k. Can you guess what happens?

Yup, the system gives him the best possible offer at the time. This means that his offer will be matched with the highest buy offer (36K) and he will get 36k cash for the zircon plating. So now the stack is:

Sell @ 40k
Sell @ 38k <--completed
Buy @ 36k <--completed
Buy @ 34k

Again, in this case the seller got the extra cash because his offer was newer.

The system also set limits of how many buying/selling listings you can have as another preventative measure against bots.

TheImperfect

I like it as it is personally.

Tommy_The_Gun

I wish that guild traders npcs were, you know - actually "traders". They feel more like sellers. They can only sell stuff. So other players can only buy stuff from them.

I wish there was an option so trading guilds could "post" what they want, so other players could sell stuff to them too. It would work just like C.O.D. system - you post an item, amount, price and as long as some one who visits trading vendor kiosk has specific item(s) in their inventory - they can sell it and receive gold via automatic c.o.d. system.

Zulera301

Keep the traders. It's a nice money sink that helps curb inflation and makes it harder to monopolize. Auri-El forbid people have to actually put some effort in.
Trade more, ERP less.

Or do what my friend did, and "hire" someone in a good guild to sell your stuff for you.

dvonpm

I'd just like to add a note here that anyone can get a rough idea of what the cost per member of a guild should be.

These numbers aren't exact and aren't meant to be, but they are reasonable as far as I know. Still useful for knowing what you should be contributing whether your guild has dues or not.

Prime locations, bids are probably 20-30 million. 500 members, that's 50 to 60k per member. In reality, about 100 of those members are doing very little to nothing any given week and that has to be made up somewhere.

Secondary locations, bids are probably 10-20 million. That's 20-40k per member.

Most guild's dues aren't that high because if we set mins at the actual cost, you'd all freak out and casual traders would have an even harder time.

So raffles, auctions, guild farm nights etc to make up for the fact that most guilds are setting dues at about half the actual cost and scrambling to get the rest.

So if you are in e.g. Mournhold and balking at 20k or 30k dues, please try to remember you're probably getting about a 50% discount.

That said, this is the most complicated gold sink I've ever seen and is endlessly frustrating as an officer who dumps nearly all my gold into my guild. And it seems like it only ever gets worse. It feels relentless.

So no. I think the system could use some real improvements. It is not ok as is. We function in our rat race of constantly scrounging bid gold, but it is not "just fine".

Eedat

I swear as soon as the last one dies, this exact same thread gets made again and again. And in it it's all the same people making all the same arguments. Time for this exact same thread the thousandth time.

I'll save save everyone else the time. It's a copy&paste of the last hundred. You're welcome.

DMuehlhausen

Before add ins like TTC I could get behind a more centralized AH. That being said though now you have 0 excuse. You simply go on and find where the item could be and can quickly travel around and check them

The bad part about TTC is you can't really find those awesome deals anymore on the out of the way Trader where something like a hard to find motif at the time you could find for way under market value.

dvonpm

Eedat wrote: »

I swear as soon as the last one dies, this exact same thread gets made again and again. And in it it's all the same people making all the same arguments. Time for this exact same thread the thousandth time.

I'll save save everyone else the time. It's a copy&paste of the last hundred. You're welcome.

Sounds like an indication that the system needs improvement.

Eedat

dvonpm wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

I swear as soon as the last one dies, this exact same thread gets made again and again. And in it it's all the same people making all the same arguments. Time for this exact same thread the thousandth time.

I'll save save everyone else the time. It's a copy&paste of the last hundred. You're welcome.

Sounds like an indication that the system needs improvement.

And yet every time there is a poll attached two thirds to three quarters of the votes favor the current system. A fact that is conveniently forgotten every time.

I'm outta here before I get roped into the maze of circular arguments that these threads turn into every time

dvonpm

Eedat wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

I swear as soon as the last one dies, this exact same thread gets made again and again. And in it it's all the same people making all the same arguments. Time for this exact same thread the thousandth time.

I'll save save everyone else the time. It's a copy&paste of the last hundred. You're welcome.

Sounds like an indication that the system needs improvement.

And yet every time there is a poll attached two thirds to three quarters of the votes favor the current system. A fact that is conveniently forgotten every time.

I'm outta here before I get roped into the maze of circular arguments that these threads turn into every time

That's probably a good idea.

Brenticus12

Zulera301 wrote: »

Keep the traders. It's a nice money sink that helps curb inflation and makes it harder to monopolize. Auri-El forbid people have to actually put some effort in.
Trade more, ERP less.

Or do what my friend did, and "hire" someone in a good guild to sell your stuff for you.

Unfortunately we've seen time and time again casual roleplayers complaining about having to put even a minimal amount of effort into the game. Be it PVE, PVP or Trading. This is yet another perfectly fine system that lazy/bad players can't bother to put effort into and instead will complain about it until they get their way.

Brenticus12

dvonpm wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

I swear as soon as the last one dies, this exact same thread gets made again and again. And in it it's all the same people making all the same arguments. Time for this exact same thread the thousandth time.

I'll save save everyone else the time. It's a copy&paste of the last hundred. You're welcome.

Sounds like an indication that the system needs improvement.

And yet every time there is a poll attached two thirds to three quarters of the votes favor the current system. A fact that is conveniently forgotten every time.

I'm outta here before I get roped into the maze of circular arguments that these threads turn into every time

That's probably a good idea.

It's always the same people coming out of the woodworks circle jerking about it despite most players being fine with the system, atleast according to polls. That's not "an indication" of anything.