New Trading System ideas

Pixiepumpkin

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

2. There are small guilds with out of the way traders who are donation based but Its a lot harder to sell in those places without add-ons. You'll get 50-75% of your stuff back in a month as expired.

That's entirely the point of a casual trader location that's "off the beaten path", @PizzaCat82.

Being in a casual trading guild means a lower tier of work to keep the guild going (and keeping the trader location).

It also means less dues (or in many cases no dues).

Sure, the traffic is lower ... but that's what the mellow environment is for.

Players have to be aware of whether this is the kind of guild that fits their desired trading playstyle.

Especially if they're a new player that needs to sell their Primal Style Book and 5 Oko Essence Runes they found completing the zone main quest.

If only there were a trading system that could accommodate all play-styles and avoid toxic guild harassment...

The one in star wars works relly good. Its called the GTN. They have these kiosks where we can go and list things to sell. When someone buys your item you get a mail with your credits (star wars uses credits not gold). It works really good for me and my friends.

Tandor

Jeremy wrote: »

volkeswagon wrote: »

I wanted to start a discussion for people to offer their ideas for trading reform. I have two ideas I'd like to share. Please remember that these are just ideas so lets keep our responses limited to your own ideas and respectful feedback and suggestions to each others ideas. So here are mine.
1. Have one trading house in each zones capital city. Houses in Alliance Capitals would hold 20 guilds and ones in other places like Vivec, Alinor, Daggerfall, etc would hold 10-12. Single traders out in the country and in Outlaw refuges could be either eliminated or house 3 guilds. How traders would work is Zos would set trader value for each trader spot. For example Mournhold could be 10 million, Vivec 4-5 million, daggerfall 3 milion, etc. First come first serve. The only thing is there would be requirements to bid on certain traders. For example; to purchase a Mournhold and other top tier traders your guild must be 3 months old with 400 plus active members. To purchase the next tier trader you must have 300 active members with no guild age requirement. The next tier would require 150 active members and the third tier 50 active members. By having a system like this there would be twice the traders available and you would know how much gold you need to purchase various locations. ZOS would act as a landlord and can raise or lower trader costs as well as capacity depending on traffic and demand. This could mean different prices and trader capacities on each server. Traders would become available to purchase during the same time window as the Lux vendor and Golden are. So once you've bought a trader for your guild you know you have one and have till flip to get ready. When someone visits a trading house it would show a list of the traders there and you can search all of them at once or individually.
2. Have no trading guilds. Each individual would be required to purchase a trading license.. The listing fee and commission (formerly guild cut) would very depending on the traffic of the trader. So Mournhold traders would cost the most to list. There could be different licences with different requirements to prevent alt accounts from using the traders for their shady business. Three tiers of traders. Gold tier being Capital traders. Purple tier being Vivec Alinor, Belkarth, etc and a blue tier being the rest. To list at Purple traders and under you must be level 50. To list at gold tier you must he CP 160. Blue tier must be level 10. You can then list up to 10 items at each trader for a total of 150 listings at one time like you have now and 100 max per tier
So here you have my ideas. Obviously there could be some tweeks but you get the basics. Both ideas maintain the seperate traders model as I think one large auction house would create chaos and cut throat prices due to too much competition and market saturation. Let us hear your ideas.

Your ideas are interesting.

Me personally: I've always liked the idea to let players set up their own trading booth inside their player housing. I consider that a fair compromise so players who don't belong to guilds with traders can still sell items on the market without compromising their beloved guild trader system they are so determined to keep.

That and they need to incorporate all of the features addons like Tamrieltradecentre add into the base game. This should have already been done a long time ago.

Not if they affect performance, thanks!

cyclonus11

Here's an idea:

- Have one trading 'broker' per zone
- Must be in a guild to list items on the broker, but it's any guild - no need for bidding or anything resembling a second job
- When in a guild, you can also list items from your home avoiding broker fees! But you don't need a home merchant to list on the brokers. It just gives guildies a way to avoid higher fees

(home listing idea partially stolen from EQ2)

Jeremy

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

2. There are small guilds with out of the way traders who are donation based but Its a lot harder to sell in those places without add-ons. You'll get 50-75% of your stuff back in a month as expired.

That's entirely the point of a casual trader location that's "off the beaten path", @PizzaCat82.

Being in a casual trading guild means a lower tier of work to keep the guild going (and keeping the trader location).

It also means less dues (or in many cases no dues).

Sure, the traffic is lower ... but that's what the mellow environment is for.

Players have to be aware of whether this is the kind of guild that fits their desired trading playstyle.

Especially if they're a new player that needs to sell their Primal Style Book and 5 Oko Essence Runes they found completing the zone main quest.

You have to admit it's addons that make those obscure trader locations viable since players can use those third party tools to locate good deals there. But I imagine they are practically ghost towns on console. So no offense; but I think you guys are beating around the bush here when it comes to defending the current system.

HIs point is: it's addons that make those more mellow trade guilds who don't have dues in order to afford the more popular locations feasible. And I suspect he's right about that.

Is there one person in this thread - who plays on console - who is defending the guild trader system? I'm just curious.

Jeremy

Tandor wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

volkeswagon wrote: »

I wanted to start a discussion for people to offer their ideas for trading reform. I have two ideas I'd like to share. Please remember that these are just ideas so lets keep our responses limited to your own ideas and respectful feedback and suggestions to each others ideas. So here are mine.
1. Have one trading house in each zones capital city. Houses in Alliance Capitals would hold 20 guilds and ones in other places like Vivec, Alinor, Daggerfall, etc would hold 10-12. Single traders out in the country and in Outlaw refuges could be either eliminated or house 3 guilds. How traders would work is Zos would set trader value for each trader spot. For example Mournhold could be 10 million, Vivec 4-5 million, daggerfall 3 milion, etc. First come first serve. The only thing is there would be requirements to bid on certain traders. For example; to purchase a Mournhold and other top tier traders your guild must be 3 months old with 400 plus active members. To purchase the next tier trader you must have 300 active members with no guild age requirement. The next tier would require 150 active members and the third tier 50 active members. By having a system like this there would be twice the traders available and you would know how much gold you need to purchase various locations. ZOS would act as a landlord and can raise or lower trader costs as well as capacity depending on traffic and demand. This could mean different prices and trader capacities on each server. Traders would become available to purchase during the same time window as the Lux vendor and Golden are. So once you've bought a trader for your guild you know you have one and have till flip to get ready. When someone visits a trading house it would show a list of the traders there and you can search all of them at once or individually.
2. Have no trading guilds. Each individual would be required to purchase a trading license.. The listing fee and commission (formerly guild cut) would very depending on the traffic of the trader. So Mournhold traders would cost the most to list. There could be different licences with different requirements to prevent alt accounts from using the traders for their shady business. Three tiers of traders. Gold tier being Capital traders. Purple tier being Vivec Alinor, Belkarth, etc and a blue tier being the rest. To list at Purple traders and under you must be level 50. To list at gold tier you must he CP 160. Blue tier must be level 10. You can then list up to 10 items at each trader for a total of 150 listings at one time like you have now and 100 max per tier
So here you have my ideas. Obviously there could be some tweeks but you get the basics. Both ideas maintain the seperate traders model as I think one large auction house would create chaos and cut throat prices due to too much competition and market saturation. Let us hear your ideas.

Your ideas are interesting.

Me personally: I've always liked the idea to let players set up their own trading booth inside their player housing. I consider that a fair compromise so players who don't belong to guilds with traders can still sell items on the market without compromising their beloved guild trader system they are so determined to keep.

That and they need to incorporate all of the features addons like Tamrieltradecentre add into the base game. This should have already been done a long time ago.

Not if they affect performance, thanks!

It shouldn't affect performance.

All they would have to do is give players an option to view a list of listed goods and what guild trader they are listed at.

kargen27

cyclonus11 wrote: »

Here's an idea:

- Have one trading 'broker' per zone
- Must be in a guild to list items on the broker, but it's any guild - no need for bidding or anything resembling a second job
- When in a guild, you can also list items from your home avoiding broker fees! But you don't need a home merchant to list on the brokers. It just gives guildies a way to avoid higher fees

(home listing idea partially stolen from EQ2)

That takes away from people that enjoy the system currently in place. There is a good number of players that treat trading as end game and put as much time into getting good at trading as trial guilds do trying to get onto leader boards. You are also removing a huge gold sink from the economy and that would cause all kinds of problems in the game without introducing some other major gold sink.

DigitalHype

What is to stop the owners of the TTC data from making a pricing table with low water marks for each high volume item that could be flipped for a hefty profit and then automatically scanning the listings before they post them externally? Allowing them a first chance at buying.

This is a genuine question. Is there anything other than their integrity that prevents that from a techincal perspective?

Jeremy

DigitalHype wrote: »

What is to stop the owners of the TTC data from making a pricing table with low water marks for each high volume item that could be flipped for a hefty profit and then automatically scanning the listings before they post them externally? Allowing them a first chance at buying.

This is a genuine question. Is there anything other than their integrity that prevents that from a techincal perspective?

Not sure.

But the thread did seem to get eerily quiet after you asked this. So you may have your answer. haha

Though in this particular case I would be willing to look the other way. I would consider it payment for their efforts to make what is flawed trading system workable. Honestly they owe the person who runs that website a paycheck.

Tandor

cyclonus11 wrote: »

Here's an idea:

- Have one trading 'broker' per zone
- Must be in a guild to list items on the broker, but it's any guild - no need for bidding or anything resembling a second job
- When in a guild, you can also list items from your home avoiding broker fees! But you don't need a home merchant to list on the brokers. It just gives guildies a way to avoid higher fees

(home listing idea partially stolen from EQ2)

Why restrict trading to guild membership? It's the most absurd way of treating trading which is a core part of any MMORPG. If you're going to have a broker system with the additional option of listing items in your home then why not follow the system EQ2 has had very successfully for years and open it to everyone?

Taleof2Cities

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

2. There are small guilds with out of the way traders who are donation based but Its a lot harder to sell in those places without add-ons. You'll get 50-75% of your stuff back in a month as expired.

That's entirely the point of a casual trader location that's "off the beaten path", @PizzaCat82.

Being in a casual trading guild means a lower tier of work to keep the guild going (and keeping the trader location).

It also means less dues (or in many cases no dues).

Sure, the traffic is lower ... but that's what the mellow environment is for.

Players have to be aware of whether this is the kind of guild that fits their desired trading playstyle.

Especially if they're a new player that needs to sell their Primal Style Book and 5 Oko Essence Runes they found completing the zone main quest.

If only there were a trading system that could accommodate all play-styles and avoid toxic guild harassment...

Guild harassment can occur in any guild, @PizzaCat82 ... it's not something that's unique to trading guilds.

I'm still failing to see how this supports wholesale changes to the trading system.

idk

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

We are not put against each other. Also, I have been in the same trading guild since late 2014 and have never had to pay dues yet we are in a solid location. I did take a break, and as happened with all my guilds, I was kicked out. When I came back I was able to get a quick invite and trudged along with my game. No issues, no problems.

The fact that you don't have to pay dues is extremely telling of your PC Addon privilege.

Since we have guides on PC that charge dues and the one I am in does not the access to addons is irrelevant.

Then it sounds like you're in a guild that's not in fierce competition for its trading spot, and "solid location"is relative depending on what system you use.

Any trader is a solid location when you have an add-on telling you where to buy things.

Nope. We have been in one of the major cities all along. We do lose our bid from time to time which is one of the things strong guilds in good locations have to deal with. We have a good leader and are well managed. Granted, we do have a sales requirement but it is easily hit by more casual players.

From some of the comments, it really seems like you have been in some guilds with very bad leadership. I really suggest talking to those you play the game with and ask in your PvE guilds about what trade guilds work well with them. Find out what their requirements are to see if you think it will be a fit for you. That is how I found my current trade guild way back in 2014.

FineFeathered

I have to agree that the arguments against guilds in general seems to be coming from personal bad experiences. I am in guilds where even after I break for a year or more, when I come back, I want back, because the people are great, the leadership is great, we have a good time, there's very little drama (prob mroe behind the scenes) but the main thing is, stability. I see the same people that I saw there 3 years ago. Or 4. Main trading guild in a very competitive spot. It's a little work, but it's not that bad. Think of it this way, if you have 5 sellers who go over a million a week, okay... what's the % of that. If you have 100 people getting 250k sales a week, you have much more as a %. Some people really value the very high dollar sellers... one should value everyone making an effort as worthy.

There are toxic people, toxic families, toxic churches, toxic towns, toxic guilds. This is no different.

As for the Star Wars (Swtor) example, the central trading of that is being hacked (I know of one person for sure who has written aprogram that scans the entire store every 5 mins, and auto-buys everythiing and turns around and sells for more). Worse, I left that game when I couldn't find a stupid pair of gloves... for less than 42 million. Yes. 42 million for a darned pair of gloves. I checked back all the time, and no. After a year, I totally gave up. Their developers, what did they say? Nothing. Matter of fact, if the conversation goes against them, they either delete and warn, or silence at all costs.

At least here, the developers seem responsive, they try.

But you won't get rid of toxic (enter name of thing here) so long as there is human nature. Changing the system won't change people. You just need to find something where people are different. Where there are different people. But if this game goes to central trading, it will do way more damage than good. You do NOT want centralized tradinig, unless you want to see entry level mats out of cost range for new players, which is what happens with Wow or Swtor. You MUST farm your mats and learn to craft, because you cannot afford to buy them, unless you've been in the game long enough to bank a lot of gold/credits/whatever.

While this system has it's problems, this one is more resistant to bad actors. And the devs seem to be more on the ball that way too. Swotor has still got gold seller spam constantly. I don't see it here. So ESO knows something Swotor refuses to learn, or enact. No thanks. That's why I'm here.

BlueRaven

idk wrote: »

We are not put against each other. Also, I have been in the same trading guild since late 2014 and have never had to pay dues yet we are in a solid location. I did take a break, and as happened with all my guilds, I was kicked out. When I came back I was able to get a quick invite and trudged along with my game. No issues, no problems.

That’s what our guild is like, no dues, and the only requirement is that you log on. Been in it for 4-5 years now.

BlueRaven

The main argument against the current system appears to be that PC players have addons to make their lives easier so the whole system needs to change.

Seems to me having zos allow addons on consoles is a more realistic request.

PizzaCat82

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

2. There are small guilds with out of the way traders who are donation based but Its a lot harder to sell in those places without add-ons. You'll get 50-75% of your stuff back in a month as expired.

That's entirely the point of a casual trader location that's "off the beaten path", @PizzaCat82.

Being in a casual trading guild means a lower tier of work to keep the guild going (and keeping the trader location).

It also means less dues (or in many cases no dues).

Sure, the traffic is lower ... but that's what the mellow environment is for.

Players have to be aware of whether this is the kind of guild that fits their desired trading playstyle.

Especially if they're a new player that needs to sell their Primal Style Book and 5 Oko Essence Runes they found completing the zone main quest.

If only there were a trading system that could accommodate all play-styles and avoid toxic guild harassment...

Guild harassment can occur in any guild, @PizzaCat82 ... it's not something that's unique to trading guilds.

I'm still failing to see how this supports wholesale changes to the trading system.

ZOS requires Guilds to easily trade. Guild Harassment can occur in any guild.If you want to trade, you must hope you get in a guild that doesn't get harassed or does the harassing. You can leave a bad guild. You cant get back the guild dues and listing fees. You can't get back the donations. You can't get back the abuse and the time wasted.

Now imagine zos doesn't require guilds to easily trade. Guild harassment still might occur, but over what? PVP? Carries? Bad Dungeon runs? Stuff that doesn't involve you. Or maybe it does. You can leave those guilds. No guild dues wasted. No time wasted. No fees wasted as its not tied to guilds.

There's better ways to get guilds involved in the game. Trade guilds are like business transactions. Join, List, ignore chat. Pay dues. Its a bad system that encourages mega guilds and constant money raising. Just make the money sink the listing fee. No need for trader swaps, or bidding, or constant raffles and auctions. (unless you just want to make money for the guild)

NotaDaedraWorshipper

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

If only there were a trading system that could accommodate all play-styles and avoid toxic guild harassment...

And what amazing system would this be? Because I've never heard of one. Global auctionhouses are horrible too.

Seriously, the only real issue here is that consoles don't have addons to make things slightly more convinient.

PizzaCat82

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

If only there were a trading system that could accommodate all play-styles and avoid toxic guild harassment...

And what amazing system would this be? Because I've never heard of one. Global auctionhouses are horrible too.

Seriously, the only real issue here is that consoles don't have addons to make things slightly more convinient.

Must be nice to have all the positives of a central trading hub with none of the downsides.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

If only there were a trading system that could accommodate all play-styles and avoid toxic guild harassment...

And what amazing system would this be? Because I've never heard of one. Global auctionhouses are horrible too.

Seriously, the only real issue here is that consoles don't have addons to make things slightly more convinient.

Must be nice to have all the positives of a central trading hub with none of the downsides.

Well ain't you a chipper one.

Still, there is no amazing trading system without faults, and I've found ESO's much preferable than the global auctionhouses.

idk

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

2. There are small guilds with out of the way traders who are donation based but Its a lot harder to sell in those places without add-ons. You'll get 50-75% of your stuff back in a month as expired.

That's entirely the point of a casual trader location that's "off the beaten path", @PizzaCat82.

Being in a casual trading guild means a lower tier of work to keep the guild going (and keeping the trader location).

It also means less dues (or in many cases no dues).

Sure, the traffic is lower ... but that's what the mellow environment is for.

Players have to be aware of whether this is the kind of guild that fits their desired trading playstyle.

Especially if they're a new player that needs to sell their Primal Style Book and 5 Oko Essence Runes they found completing the zone main quest.

If only there were a trading system that could accommodate all play-styles and avoid toxic guild harassment...

Guild harassment can occur in any guild, @PizzaCat82 ... it's not something that's unique to trading guilds.

I'm still failing to see how this supports wholesale changes to the trading system.

ZOS requires Guilds to easily trade. Guild Harassment can occur in any guild.If you want to trade, you must hope you get in a guild that doesn't get harassed or does the harassing. You can leave a bad guild. You cant get back the guild dues and listing fees. You can't get back the donations. You can't get back the abuse and the time wasted.

Guild harassment, and as far as that goes we can speak to guild drama, is quickly taken care of if the guild has good leaders. It is called kicking the idiot from the guild.

If a guild is harassing another guild then report them. Read the ToS, harassment is against it.

If you are not selling a lot why are you even donating?

This still sounds like you have had a lot of unfortunate experience with some very bad guild leadership. As I already suggested, ask those you run with, as in your other guilds, to find someone who is in a good guild that has requirements that fit what you are willing to deal with. That is how I found my current trade guild back in 2014.

PizzaCat82

idk wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

2. There are small guilds with out of the way traders who are donation based but Its a lot harder to sell in those places without add-ons. You'll get 50-75% of your stuff back in a month as expired.

That's entirely the point of a casual trader location that's "off the beaten path", @PizzaCat82.

Being in a casual trading guild means a lower tier of work to keep the guild going (and keeping the trader location).

It also means less dues (or in many cases no dues).

Sure, the traffic is lower ... but that's what the mellow environment is for.

Players have to be aware of whether this is the kind of guild that fits their desired trading playstyle.

Especially if they're a new player that needs to sell their Primal Style Book and 5 Oko Essence Runes they found completing the zone main quest.

If only there were a trading system that could accommodate all play-styles and avoid toxic guild harassment...

Guild harassment can occur in any guild, @PizzaCat82 ... it's not something that's unique to trading guilds.

I'm still failing to see how this supports wholesale changes to the trading system.

ZOS requires Guilds to easily trade. Guild Harassment can occur in any guild.If you want to trade, you must hope you get in a guild that doesn't get harassed or does the harassing. You can leave a bad guild. You cant get back the guild dues and listing fees. You can't get back the donations. You can't get back the abuse and the time wasted.

Guild harassment, and as far as that goes we can speak to guild drama, is quickly taken care of if the guild has good leaders. It is called kicking the idiot from the guild.

If a guild is harassing another guild then report them. Read the ToS, harassment is against it.

If you are not selling a lot why are you even donating?

This still sounds like you have had a lot of unfortunate experience with some very bad guild leadership. As I already suggested, ask those you run with, as in your other guilds, to find someone who is in a good guild that has requirements that fit what you are willing to deal with. That is how I found my current trade guild back in 2014.

Unfortunate? What a white-wash of a terrible event that is designed to happen with the current system.

But please, tell me how to find a good guild, something I don't need and didn't ask for.

DragonRacer

*rubs temples*

I hear almost equally toxic horror stories about a lot of trials guilds, but that somehow seems less contentious than trading guilds in general forum conversation.

Not every good trading guild is transaction-only with dead chat. There are plenty of - again - donation-based trading guilds with a vibrant social and/or trials/dungeons/housing contests/what-have-you elements to them who regularly get traders in damned good cities like Vivec, Alinor, Rimmen, Rawl’kha, Belkarth and maybe every few weeks/months a capital trader (though, frankly, from a GM standpoint, that’s waaaay overpaying for a trader when you look at ROI of pages sold in many instances, but “dat brand name”). I GM one and could name at minimum two others right off the top of my head that are equal.

Avoid regular capital guilds if you want to avoid the weirdness you experienced before, @PizzaCat82 But I’d challenge you to join my guild or some suggested others before 100% poo-pooing every trader guild ever for all time and call GMs sociopaths because of your negative Mafia experiences.

Trader guilds outside the Mafia exist and don’t deserve this broad brush you insist upon stroking.

(But, yes, if you joined my guild, you would see optional raffles in MOTD and would see a Friday night guild text chat auction weekly. The horror. None are mandatory participation. Active for 21+ days unless special circumstances is the only “you won’t get kicked” requirement. And *gasp shock horror* MOTD even has a Halloween housing contest in it because we only care about being a trading guild and stuff.)

(Also also... saw this earlier in thread... hi. Console GM of a primarily trading guild. Fine with current system, but chill with suggested changes or improvements. I wouldn’t die on the hill of our current system, but mostly just feeling less chill about the constant insults towards all trading guilds at this point. If we blew everything up tomorrow and installed a global auction house, I would give literally zero you-know-whats. Because *gasp shock wut* my trading guild has other aspects/positives to it besides trading. So do the others I could suggest.)

PizzaCat82

DragonRacer wrote: »

*rubs temples*

I hear almost equally toxic horror stories about a lot of trials guilds, but that somehow seems less contentious than trading guilds in general forum conversation.

Not every good trading guild is transaction-only with dead chat. There are plenty of - again - donation-based trading guilds with a vibrant social and/or trials/dungeons/housing contests/what-have-you elements to them who regularly get traders in damned good cities like Vivec, Alinor, Rimmen, Rawl’kha, Belkarth and maybe every few weeks/months a capital trader (though, frankly, from a GM standpoint, that’s waaaay overpaying for a trader when you look at ROI of pages sold in many instances, but “dat brand name”). I GM one and could name at minimum two others right off the top of my head that are equal.

Avoid regular capital guilds if you want to avoid the weirdness you experienced before, @PizzaCat82 But I’d challenge you to join my guild or some suggested others before 100% poo-pooing every trader guild ever for all time and call GMs sociopaths because of your negative Mafia experiences.

Trader guilds outside the Mafia exist and don’t deserve this broad brush you insist upon stroking.

(But, yes, if you joined my guild, you would see optional raffles in MOTD and would see a Friday night guild text chat auction weekly. The horror. None are mandatory participation. Active for 21+ days unless special circumstances is the only “you won’t get kicked” requirement. And *gasp shock horror* MOTD even has a Halloween housing contest in it because we only care about being a trading guild and stuff.)

(Also also... saw this earlier in thread... hi. Console GM of a primarily trading guild. Fine with current system, but chill with suggested changes or improvements. I wouldn’t die on the hill of our current system, but mostly just feeling less chill about the constant insults towards all trading guilds at this point. If we blew everything up tomorrow and installed a global auction house, I would give literally zero you-know-whats. Because *gasp shock wut* my trading guild has other aspects/positives to it besides trading. So do the others I could suggest.)

I'm not attacking guilds. Yes, I had a bad experience with one a while back and that guild still exists and is still on top. I'm not trying to get rid of guilds. I'm attacking the system that requires everyone join a guild to trade.

Some guilds are good, Some are horrible. Some turn from good to horrible. Its a big investment to be in a good guild that suddenly has harassment combined with leadership changes that prevent you from trading.

I'm currently in a very fine guild, I enjoy it and do not mind where I'm at. Still doesn't change my opinion on the trading system, which can be currently gamed as easily as a central one (or a central one can be made to work like the distributed system with addons)

DragonRacer

Okay then. THAT, I can respect. Just some of your posts and language have come across like “all trading guilds are horrible and their GMs are sociopaths” and eventually folks reach a limit of how much abuse they wanna read about when it tries to tie it to something they’re involved with.

You had one crap experience with one crap guild. That’s not cool, but that shouldn’t paint an entire sect of guilds. In my opinion. Which is, of course, biased based on my experiences as yours are for your experience.

I’d be all for any added systems that helped folks at large list some things for sale or helped new players put a few listings up.

Regardless, invitation to my guild any time still stands if you ever want a place to sell and not feel burned again. I respect if you wanna keep doing you, but I wanna put it out there that it’s genuine. I hate that you had such an awful experience that it forever turned you off of all trading guilds. And it’s an equal shame that it demonstrates you felt so burned that you now feel forever cut off from an aspect of the game. That, I can agree, is poo-poo and shouldn’t be a thing.

idk

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

2. There are small guilds with out of the way traders who are donation based but Its a lot harder to sell in those places without add-ons. You'll get 50-75% of your stuff back in a month as expired.

That's entirely the point of a casual trader location that's "off the beaten path", @PizzaCat82.

Being in a casual trading guild means a lower tier of work to keep the guild going (and keeping the trader location).

It also means less dues (or in many cases no dues).

Sure, the traffic is lower ... but that's what the mellow environment is for.

Players have to be aware of whether this is the kind of guild that fits their desired trading playstyle.

Especially if they're a new player that needs to sell their Primal Style Book and 5 Oko Essence Runes they found completing the zone main quest.

If only there were a trading system that could accommodate all play-styles and avoid toxic guild harassment...

Guild harassment can occur in any guild, @PizzaCat82 ... it's not something that's unique to trading guilds.

I'm still failing to see how this supports wholesale changes to the trading system.

ZOS requires Guilds to easily trade. Guild Harassment can occur in any guild.If you want to trade, you must hope you get in a guild that doesn't get harassed or does the harassing. You can leave a bad guild. You cant get back the guild dues and listing fees. You can't get back the donations. You can't get back the abuse and the time wasted.

Guild harassment, and as far as that goes we can speak to guild drama, is quickly taken care of if the guild has good leaders. It is called kicking the idiot from the guild.

If a guild is harassing another guild then report them. Read the ToS, harassment is against it.

If you are not selling a lot why are you even donating?

This still sounds like you have had a lot of unfortunate experience with some very bad guild leadership. As I already suggested, ask those you run with, as in your other guilds, to find someone who is in a good guild that has requirements that fit what you are willing to deal with. That is how I found my current trade guild back in 2014.

Unfortunate? What a white-wash of a terrible event that is designed to happen with the current system.

But please, tell me how to find a good guild, something I don't need and didn't ask for.

Ok, good. Glad you found a good trading guild.

However, I have no idea what you are calling a white-wash as I merely explained the reality of things. Especially that the harassment aspect should be reported to Zos. They made it clear with the recent TOS update that they are getting more serious about it.

Stinkyremy

The in game trading guild system is terrible.
I recently wanted a few items and had to spend hours going to literally every trader in game looking for them which is very time consuming especially because of loading screens, but also that the items may be in guild stores that weren't with a trader that week.
That being said a universal trader system would be a means for people to be able to gouge prices.

JKorr

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

We are not put against each other. Also, I have been in the same trading guild since late 2014 and have never had to pay dues yet we are in a solid location. I did take a break, and as happened with all my guilds, I was kicked out. When I came back I was able to get a quick invite and trudged along with my game. No issues, no problems.

The fact that you don't have to pay dues is extremely telling of your PC Addon privilege.

And how does pc having addons have anything at all to do with not paying dues?

Because most traders in major cities on PC check indvidual selling by addons. Consoles don't have that luxury.

Again, not seeing the connection.

Unless you're trying to say that guilds enforce price fixing, and make all members sell at the same prices, I don't know what you're talking about.Or do you think the gms get kickbacks from the add-on makers who put up their FREE add-ons for download or something?

Guilds don't base "requires dues" by how much individuals sell. If they want a set amount of gold coming in for "reasons", they will set dues or required sales amounts. If they want to have a voluntary guild with no dues and no required sales, they'll set it up that way. Add-ons are irrelevant. One of my no dues social guilds doesn't use TTC. My no dues no sales requirements *trading* guild does. So add-ons do what, exactly?

None of my guilds tell me how much I have to charge for anything. I put a price out, if I guessed too high, it gets returned eventually. If it's reasonable it sells. Do console players need an add-on for common sense? And dues or lack thereof have nothing to do with add-ons.

PizzaCat82

JKorr wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

We are not put against each other. Also, I have been in the same trading guild since late 2014 and have never had to pay dues yet we are in a solid location. I did take a break, and as happened with all my guilds, I was kicked out. When I came back I was able to get a quick invite and trudged along with my game. No issues, no problems.

The fact that you don't have to pay dues is extremely telling of your PC Addon privilege.

And how does pc having addons have anything at all to do with not paying dues?

Because most traders in major cities on PC check indvidual selling by addons. Consoles don't have that luxury.

Again, not seeing the connection.

Unless you're trying to say that guilds enforce price fixing, and make all members sell at the same prices, I don't know what you're talking about.Or do you think the gms get kickbacks from the add-on makers who put up their FREE add-ons for download or something?

Guilds don't base "requires dues" by how much individuals sell. If they want a set amount of gold coming in for "reasons", they will set dues or required sales amounts. If they want to have a voluntary guild with no dues and no required sales, they'll set it up that way. Add-ons are irrelevant. One of my no dues social guilds doesn't use TTC. My no dues no sales requirements *trading* guild does. So add-ons do what, exactly?

None of my guilds tell me how much I have to charge for anything. I put a price out, if I guessed too high, it gets returned eventually. If it's reasonable it sells. Do console players need an add-on for common sense? And dues or lack thereof have nothing to do with add-ons.

Any guild that has a selling requirement uses an add-on to determine sales history for the week. The rest of your comment is you misunderstanding.

HalvarIronfist

Thoughts:

Something SHOULD be done to preserve the trading system. Whether thats a rework on how traders function in some regard, the amount of trader kiosks available, or ETC. I do not have the complete answer, only opinions.

I ran a trade guild for a little over a year and most recently it was almost impossible to compete anymore. The prices of locations I could once hold down for a set amount were doubling, and tripling. I was losing bids to guilds I'd never heard of; and upon looking for in guild finder were made earlier this year and also securing capital traders.

Something I've noticed in this year alone is the influx of trade guilds that break off already established guilds. (Such as an officer of Guild 1 leaving to make Guild 2.)

While all are welcome to the GM scene/right to do as they please IMO it became rather unbearable. I had good membership and small weekly dues/donation based that always got us by. Then I started having to bid triple on spots I used to get and sometimes wouldn't even win then.

Genuinely, what is the point? I don't have the income as a college student to buy crowns weekly to support my bids. Which, at one point I had done voluntarily.


A big argument now with these guilds is why join the middleman or lower trading guilds? I've seen many a casual player more than eager to join a mournhold guild simply because they heard it was "The best spot in the game and you shouldn't want anything else."

I frequently ask my guildies in both the PVE/PVP guild I own and formerly the trading guild I ran about their opinions, things me/my staff could do better, to improve life in the guild for them. In the Trading guild, I was once told by a member who had been there for a rather long time. "If you want to make more money and get more members, you need to get a better trader location like Alinor or Wayrest" Yet the problem was.. we could do that for a week, but then we'd get kicked away and unable to afford/sustain that bid.


Ultimately, now I see lower to mid tier trading guilds as a liability simply because there aren't enough means to compete. It depends entirely on your membership or how much you want to spend IRL to support it. If ZOS was to do anything, I'd like it to be something that could either allow you to see bids, or bring the overall average costs of traders lower. (Say the average bid is 1m, if they brought it down to 750k somehow.).

Varana

DigitalHype wrote: »

What is to stop the owners of the TTC data from making a pricing table with low water marks for each high volume item that could be flipped for a hefty profit and then automatically scanning the listings before they post them externally? Allowing them a first chance at buying.

This is a genuine question. Is there anything other than their integrity that prevents that from a techincal perspective?

Technically, it would probably work.
But not very well.
- TTC is not real-time. The seller has to have the extra tool running, they have to log out/reloadui after putting the item up for sale, or someone else has to scan the guild store and then again, log out/reloadui. It can be hours before an item ends up in TTC's data base.
- They would still need to physically travel in-game to those trader locations. With riding around and load-screens, that's an awful lot of time spent. If you know how to trade, and unless you absolutely want to sit on millions of gold for no particular reason, that's simply not worth the effort.
- I'm not sure how much the TTC guy actually even plays the game. The site seemed more of a proof-of concept thing that was meant to be helpful, and then got completely out of hand, with server costs and admin stuff and all that hassle.

Point 1 is the most important, though. You see a lot of entries in TTC's data base that are just gone - that's because between the seller putting the item up, or someone scanning the guild, and relogging to commit the data to TTC, there's too much delay so someone else snapped the item "manually". Having priority access to TTC's data base does not even guarantee you getting the good deals, so you would run around the game for nothing at all, most of the time.

DigitalHype

Varana wrote: »

DigitalHype wrote: »

What is to stop the owners of the TTC data from making a pricing table with low water marks for each high volume item that could be flipped for a hefty profit and then automatically scanning the listings before they post them externally? Allowing them a first chance at buying.

This is a genuine question. Is there anything other than their integrity that prevents that from a techincal perspective?

Technically, it would probably work.
But not very well.
- TTC is not real-time. The seller has to have the extra tool running, they have to log out/reloadui after putting the item up for sale, or someone else has to scan the guild store and then again, log out/reloadui. It can be hours before an item ends up in TTC's data base.
- They would still need to physically travel in-game to those trader locations. With riding around and load-screens, that's an awful lot of time spent. If you know how to trade, and unless you absolutely want to sit on millions of gold for no particular reason, that's simply not worth the effort.
- I'm not sure how much the TTC guy actually even plays the game. The site seemed more of a proof-of concept thing that was meant to be helpful, and then got completely out of hand, with server costs and admin stuff and all that hassle.

Point 1 is the most important, though. You see a lot of entries in TTC's data base that are just gone - that's because between the seller putting the item up, or someone scanning the guild, and relogging to commit the data to TTC, there's too much delay so someone else snapped the item "manually". Having priority access to TTC's data base does not even guarantee you getting the good deals, so you would run around the game for nothing at all, most of the time.

You're saying you don't think its viable because there would be too many occurrences of the item being purchased either by an in-house buyer or someone who happened to be browsing at that merchant directly before the TTC maintainers got the update. I do agree this would sometimes happen. I don't think it would happen enough to make the scenario I presented less than worthwhile.

That scenario is already happening for everyone. Looking at the TTC website and curently travelling in-game and still sometimes losing the race. If someone knew about the listing before that race started, they are certainly going to do better, more often than not, compared to the rest of the buyers in the market.