Proc sets need to be adjusted before the end of the PTS cycle.

Urzigurumash · October 2020

Gorreck wrote: »

Balance is balance; prior to the proc based changes stat dense gear was better, now proc based gear is better.

Neither was, nor is, balance.

I personally think the sweet spot is where, on equally skilled players, proc sets can be used to close the gap between classes / playstyles, while not being strong enough for the currently best class / playstyle to use over stat sets. In this way, which classes / playstyles find their most competitive play in proc sets can be used as an indicator for weak spots in the class / playstyle.

That's kind of how it shook out over the last few years, where one particular class could use one particular procset in one particular setting to make up for their deficiencies in that setting - Caluurion's on MagBlades in BGs, for instance, and Doylemish really helped me compete in the BGs PetSorc meta back in late 2018 / early 2019 (I think) as a StamDK, when there was hardly a StamDK to be found at the MMR I was at.

Urzigurumash · October 2020

I guess we could extend that idea to explain why Vicious Death has been so popular on so many Mag builds in Cyrodiil, given how many complaints we see about Mag vs Stam in Cyrodiil

maboleth · October 2020

I have no problem with proc sets in general. They are here to stay anyway.

BUT,

They shouldn't be OP, they shouldn't add the amount of damage of one or several good, punchy skills. Someone said - it's a tool for average player to feel powered. Not necessarily - due to human nature, people WILL abuse it, as we can already see in Cyrodiil. The amount of average players helping vs abusers is probably 1:10.

Simply put, proc sets should be nerfed or put into boundaries, to help, have fun etc. but not to do the work for you.

Derra · October 2020

hakan wrote: »

i dont want all of them to be removed since some of them opens up other playstyles but yeah this is tiring. losing 400wd doesnt matter when you can deal 9k dmg from proc every ten seconds without using gcd, resource whatever.

and to the guy whos asking which is what, i dont think masters bow is proc set. or clever alch, eternal hunt etc.

just pure stats would be boring too.

I think the bolded set is very much a procc set any way you can argue about what defines a procc in eso.

I´d love to see any stat proccs unimpaired, then make all damaging proccs share cooldown in pvp areas and make all healing proccs share cooldown.

Strider__Roshin · October 2020

Oh look no dev comment. What a shock. Also expect none of this to get addressed in the PTS.

Aznarb · October 2020

maboleth wrote: »

I have no problem with proc sets in general. They are here to stay anyway.

BUT,

They shouldn't be OP, they shouldn't add the amount of damage of one or several good, punchy skills. Someone said - it's a tool for average player to feel powered. Not necessarily - due to human nature, people WILL abuse it, as we can already see in Cyrodiil. The amount of average players helping vs abusers is probably 1:10.

Simply put, proc sets should be nerfed or put into boundaries, to help, have fun etc. but not to do the work for you.

They should be nerfed ONLY for PvP.
In PvE some that get change finaly get viable but are still far away from meta, so no, not a straight nerf who will hurt again PvE diversity.

That why I always said only Cyro set should be allowed in PvP and be reworked to be more interesting for this part of the player.
It's just impossible to balance one side of the game without hurting badly the other side the way the game work currently.
We NEED to have a clear and distinct separation between PvP and PvE sets & stats, that just basic logic..

It just make me so sad/disappointed than PvP player just ask to nerf everything instead of asking to get a simple way to balance all this mess..
It's just like they want thing nerfed, but not the one they like to abuse somehow.
PvP need a complete rework, nothing will change my mind about this.

BohnT2 · October 2020

At least we saw a small pat on the back with the nerf hammer on two of the most common procs syvarra's and sheer venom.

The core issues remain, the proc meta if far more spread than this:
Explosive rebuke, vate 2h, icy conjurer, unfathomable darkness, red mountain, ashen grip, unleashed terror, plague slinger, overwhelming, auroran, wrath of elements, torugs, winterborn...

Those sets are still hugely benefiting from malacath buffing their damage while the intended downside of malacath doesn't affect them at all.
Taking away malacath's extra would instantly help making stat sets an actual choice again rather than being worse in any situation.

There is one more set that needs to be touched individually and that is venomous smite.
This set has a way too high powerbudget.
It deals more damage than some sets listed above while not even benefiting from malacath, like many other it's completely unavoidable as it's applied on crit damage done which means if you want to avoid being hit by it your only chance is not fighting at all.

Sloads has shown everyone what an overtuned set can do and venomous smite is everything sloads was but better as it will often deal way more damage while also having a chance of applying the poisoned status effect dealing even more damage in the process.

SgtNuttzmeg · October 2020

This post needs more bumping. The standard for proc damage is too high.

universal_wrath · October 2020

Proc sets should scale with highest offensive stats like skills, instead of giving full benefit from get go. Only things that should fgive full benefit are static bonuses like are, spell/ weapon damage, pentration and critical chance.

Kingslayer513 · October 2020

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Oh look no dev comment. What a shock. Also expect none of this to get addressed in the PTS.

Well at least sheer venom got nerfed in this morning's patch notes... It's a start.

Honestly I think step #1 is simply make malacath not apply to proc sets. ZOS loves to talk about "kiss-curse" balance, right? Well the "curse" of malacath is that you can't deal crit damage. Proc sets inherently cannot deal crit damage, and in fact are balanced around this. So effectively you take an already strong mythic item and COMPLETELY side step the "curse" side of it. What part of that is balanced?

Ragnaroek93 · October 2020

So they nerfed the one set which made overnerfed Poison Injection actually worth using while leaving the other procs alone and buffing the new destro staff proc. Can't wait for the "just line of sight/run out of range" memes for this dumb destro staff.

kathandira · October 2020

d3adpain wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

Proc sets are not a problem.
2 proc sets just can be negated by 1 defensive set. Or purged.

If it is 4 on 1 fight, yes it kills, but why do you think that you must kill 4 people solo ?

1 on 1 player in 2 attack proc sets is always weeker.

And proc sets were always used before patch to, so what is the problem?

I kill people with proc sets more easely.

But they are playable now. They just were useless before. Now they are playable, but it is not win button, 1 on 1 i always kill them.

yeah yeah its balanced lol, when gear does more dmg then abilities and they make its easly proc so boomers can kill people by just smashing the keyboard without thought or need to learn the game, such a joke 1.3k bb
great balance and thanks you so much for listening to the community zos
can't wait for new world to come out ,this game went from being good competitive mmorpg and became so bad and boring
this proc meta, block changes that made the game clunky , ultimate cast time they killed pvp already so many people left
and the people who still play just don't have thing else to play for the moment

Icey Conjurer hit 10x for 753 per second
Sheer Venom hit 5x for 1,101 per second
Unleashed Terror hit 10x for 810 per second
Twin Blade hit 6x for 796 per second
Blast Bones hit 1x for 1337

In total, at the moment of death, what is shown is a total of 4,797 damage.

This doesn't appear to be a great example of what you are attempting to show.

MentalxHammer · October 2020

Good job guys on all the feedback, and thank you ZOS for listening and making adjustments to Sheer venom and Syvarras.

As has been discussed, it might be a more effective option to adjust the interaction between Malacaths and proc sets, as it has been concluded that this the core of the proc set meta. This would address the issue without effecting playstyles or numerous sets.

kathandira · October 2020

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Good job guys on all the feedback, and thank you ZOS for listening and making adjustments to Sheer venom and Syvarras.

As has been discussed, it might be a more effective option to adjust the interaction between Malacaths and proc sets, as it has been concluded that this the core of the proc set meta. This would address the issue without effecting playstyles or numerous sets.

Terrific! Problems in PvP affect PvE again! Rejoice!

why do we applaud this lazy approach to fixing problems?

Waffennacht · October 2020

Kinda feel like the 2h stampede set up was more powerful than sheer

Not bad tho, seen much worse natch potes

MentalxHammer · October 2020

kathandira wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Good job guys on all the feedback, and thank you ZOS for listening and making adjustments to Sheer venom and Syvarras.

As has been discussed, it might be a more effective option to adjust the interaction between Malacaths and proc sets, as it has been concluded that this the core of the proc set meta. This would address the issue without effecting playstyles or numerous sets.

Terrific! Problems in PvP affect PvE again! Rejoice!

why do we applaud this lazy approach to fixing problems?

It is unfortunate that this proposed change would negatively effect your PvE build; however, it has been concluded that both proc sets and Malacaths are extremely subpar compared to other PvE damage dealing options.

Regarding the current PvP experience, almost every player that steps foot in PvP is dealing with this frustrating meta. In this case, if the proposed change to Malacaths was made, it would negatively effect you, and the small portion of PvE players that choose to use proc sets for thematic reasons.

It would however, positively impact the thousands and thousands of players attempting to enjoy PvP in ESO. I see your point, and think it's unfortunate that PvP changes often effect PvE, but in this case the benefit far outweighs the drawback.

relentless_turnip · October 2020

kathandira wrote: »

d3adpain wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

Proc sets are not a problem.
2 proc sets just can be negated by 1 defensive set. Or purged.

If it is 4 on 1 fight, yes it kills, but why do you think that you must kill 4 people solo ?

1 on 1 player in 2 attack proc sets is always weeker.

And proc sets were always used before patch to, so what is the problem?

I kill people with proc sets more easely.

But they are playable now. They just were useless before. Now they are playable, but it is not win button, 1 on 1 i always kill them.

yeah yeah its balanced lol, when gear does more dmg then abilities and they make its easly proc so boomers can kill people by just smashing the keyboard without thought or need to learn the game, such a joke 1.3k bb
great balance and thanks you so much for listening to the community zos
can't wait for new world to come out ,this game went from being good competitive mmorpg and became so bad and boring
this proc meta, block changes that made the game clunky , ultimate cast time they killed pvp already so many people left
and the people who still play just don't have thing else to play for the moment

Icey Conjurer hit 10x for 753 per second
Sheer Venom hit 5x for 1,101 per second
Unleashed Terror hit 10x for 810 per second
Twin Blade hit 6x for 796 per second
Blast Bones hit 1x for 1337

In total, at the moment of death, what is shown is a total of 4,797 damage.

This doesn't appear to be a great example of what you are attempting to show.

I think the point is there are now skills on his death recap. Ultimately armor killed him...

Even the blastbones is evidence of someone using proc sets, judging by its low tooltip.

katorga · October 2020

relentless_turnip wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

d3adpain wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

Proc sets are not a problem.
2 proc sets just can be negated by 1 defensive set. Or purged.

If it is 4 on 1 fight, yes it kills, but why do you think that you must kill 4 people solo ?

1 on 1 player in 2 attack proc sets is always weeker.

And proc sets were always used before patch to, so what is the problem?

I kill people with proc sets more easely.

But they are playable now. They just were useless before. Now they are playable, but it is not win button, 1 on 1 i always kill them.

yeah yeah its balanced lol, when gear does more dmg then abilities and they make its easly proc so boomers can kill people by just smashing the keyboard without thought or need to learn the game, such a joke 1.3k bb
great balance and thanks you so much for listening to the community zos
can't wait for new world to come out ,this game went from being good competitive mmorpg and became so bad and boring
this proc meta, block changes that made the game clunky , ultimate cast time they killed pvp already so many people left
and the people who still play just don't have thing else to play for the moment

Icey Conjurer hit 10x for 753 per second
Sheer Venom hit 5x for 1,101 per second
Unleashed Terror hit 10x for 810 per second
Twin Blade hit 6x for 796 per second
Blast Bones hit 1x for 1337

In total, at the moment of death, what is shown is a total of 4,797 damage.

This doesn't appear to be a great example of what you are attempting to show.

I think the point is there are now skills on his death recap. Ultimately armor killed him...

Even the blastbones is evidence of someone using proc sets, judging by its low tooltip.

Jeez how do you even get BB to hit for 1337? In eso builder, all points in health, no cp, crafted CP160 generic heavy armor, only the gravelord skill line chosen, and 2H with no enchants gets me over that, even assuming 75% mitigation on the target. lol

Wuuffyy · October 2020

Atherakhia wrote: »

Kaysha wrote: »

You know, for a lot of players proc sets are fun and a welcome change after years and years of boring stat based gameplay.

This is an MMO, not a first person shooter. The gear that you farm is supposed to have a heavy impact on your gameplay.

Which is counter productive when only stamina get access to the fun and exciting sets. If they can't be bothered to do it right, then don't do it at all please.

Now that said, I really don't think a lot of the sets are the problem and simply changing Malacath would likely solve some of the problem. There are obviously exceptions to the rule like Sheer Venom and Unleashed being far too powerful.

Cauluarians and that 5 la monster set says otherwise

d3adpain · October 2020

buttaface · October 2020

Proc dmg itself is fine, as others post, what needs to change is stacking multiple instances of the same proc in PvP.

Kingslayer513 · October 2020

kathandira wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Good job guys on all the feedback, and thank you ZOS for listening and making adjustments to Sheer venom and Syvarras.

As has been discussed, it might be a more effective option to adjust the interaction between Malacaths and proc sets, as it has been concluded that this the core of the proc set meta. This would address the issue without effecting playstyles or numerous sets.

Terrific! Problems in PvP affect PvE again! Rejoice!

why do we applaud this lazy approach to fixing problems?

Nobody used those proc sets in pve anyways. What alternative would you propose?

Atherakhia · October 2020

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Atherakhia wrote: »

Kaysha wrote: »

You know, for a lot of players proc sets are fun and a welcome change after years and years of boring stat based gameplay.

This is an MMO, not a first person shooter. The gear that you farm is supposed to have a heavy impact on your gameplay.

Which is counter productive when only stamina get access to the fun and exciting sets. If they can't be bothered to do it right, then don't do it at all please.

Now that said, I really don't think a lot of the sets are the problem and simply changing Malacath would likely solve some of the problem. There are obviously exceptions to the rule like Sheer Venom and Unleashed being far too powerful.

Cauluarians and that 5 la monster set says otherwise

I've only ever seen Kjalnar like once. The set is awful because the LA stacking has an internal cooldown of one a second. Far too slow for the majority of people out there. Caluurian is strong though, just incredibly easy to dodge. I imagine we'll see more people using Icy next patch with the new arena staff though.

kathandira · October 2020

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Good job guys on all the feedback, and thank you ZOS for listening and making adjustments to Sheer venom and Syvarras.

As has been discussed, it might be a more effective option to adjust the interaction between Malacaths and proc sets, as it has been concluded that this the core of the proc set meta. This would address the issue without effecting playstyles or numerous sets.

Terrific! Problems in PvP affect PvE again! Rejoice!

why do we applaud this lazy approach to fixing problems?

Nobody used those proc sets in pve anyways. What alternative would you propose?

I propose the same thing many others have over the years.

Separate the rules on items and skills for PvE and PvP.

Kingslayer513 · October 2020

kathandira wrote: »

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Good job guys on all the feedback, and thank you ZOS for listening and making adjustments to Sheer venom and Syvarras.

As has been discussed, it might be a more effective option to adjust the interaction between Malacaths and proc sets, as it has been concluded that this the core of the proc set meta. This would address the issue without effecting playstyles or numerous sets.

Terrific! Problems in PvP affect PvE again! Rejoice!

why do we applaud this lazy approach to fixing problems?

Nobody used those proc sets in pve anyways. What alternative would you propose?

I propose the same thing many others have over the years.

Separate the rules on items and skills for PvE and PvP.

I hear ya, but c'mon we've got a better chance of winning the lottery than having ZOS pull their head out of the sand on that one.

That's why we need actionable feedback, not dreams that will never happen. These sets are a problem in pvp, unused in pve, and so I'd rather have these nerfs than no changes at all.

d3adpain · October 2020

buttaface wrote: »

Proc dmg itself is fine, as others post, what needs to change is stacking multiple instances of the same proc in PvP.

fine ? lol
why should armor set do dmg same if not more then abilities ??
what's most stupid thing about it its have almost no conditions to proc it and easily proc
and some of them self proc each other ,what's worse at when its laggy in cyrodil
procs continue to do dmg and reproc themself(cause they already calculated in the servers and does not require you to proc it) while skills and heals don't go off

Kingslayer513 · October 2020

buttaface wrote: »

Proc dmg itself is fine, as others post, what needs to change is stacking multiple instances of the same proc in PvP.

That's not really the issue either...

Right now in pvp, one person can equip 3 proc sets with extremely easy proc conditions and focus all of their other stats on defense. Normally you have to carefully build for damage without sacrificing too much with sustain, defense, etc. Proc sets are a loop hole, you get the damage "for free" just by equipping the set. It doesn't matter if you have 35k HP and max resistances, the damage of the proc stays the same. There are proc builds right now that allow you to win against good players by just using light attacks... This meta isn't healthy balance.

Recapitated · October 2020

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Good job guys on all the feedback, and thank you ZOS for listening and making adjustments to Sheer venom and Syvarras.

As has been discussed, it might be a more effective option to adjust the interaction between Malacaths and proc sets, as it has been concluded that this the core of the proc set meta. This would address the issue without effecting playstyles or numerous sets.

It doesn't help, but keep in mind the meta emerged in Stonethorn when proc sets were buffed, not in Greymoor when Malacath dropped; at the time the interaction was there but proc sets were not powerful enough to justify using them as much. You did see some amount of Venomous Smite on you during Greymoor in BGs but that set is incompatible with Mala.

ZarkingFrued · October 2020

This proc meta is absolutely terrible for pvp. Was let down when I only saw a fix to sheer venom and nothing else touched.

ZarkingFrued · October 2020

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I feel like we can’t really judge the meta until group BG’s are returned. The game should never be balanced around solo play IMO, and if you try to balance around both they will both lack in diversity.

Yes, it sucks to look at a recap of, syvarra’s, sheer venom, and unleashed terror. You are going to struggle on the majority of specs when 2-3 people drop these highly potent dots on you. But we must at least try to find out if there is some healthy group play possible. Because when you think about it, one purge every 10 seconds would negate 2-3 players 5 piece bonus’s if a group tries to run this in group play. I can’t see a Meta, at a competitive level, relying on this totally counterable strategy.

And in fairness, if you were outnumbered by 2-3 competent players, procs or no procs, you are likely screwed anyway. This is just to make PvP more accessible for solo noobs.[/quote

Seems procs should hit for much less with lower damage imo