Lost Treasures of Skyrim - even more rewards for exploiters!

Dusk_Coven · September 2020

And now everyone who exploited and got Antiquities access will also get Lost Treasures of Skyrim rewards. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/529121/greymoor-is-still-for-free-for-people-who-didnt-buy-it#latest

Great job continuing to ruin this chapter ZOS https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/529260/thanks-zo-for-ruining-this-chapter-for-me/p1 by continuing mismanagement of exploiters.

Or will rewards be properly distributed only to people who legitimately bought Greymoor?
Because if you can tell the difference between people who legitimately have Antiquities access, why didn't you remove it from the exploiters?
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

SydneyGrey · September 2020

How can you call them an "exploiter" when it's not their fault that ZOS didn't fix this, and the Skyrim event hasn't even happened yet?

(I bought Greymoor, btw.)

Linaleah · September 2020

ok, I just have to verify, because these threads are pretty giant. did ZoS remove acess to actual chapter from people that didn't buy it?

because event prerequisite is ownership of the CHAPTER. NOT acess to the skill line.

kinda like... when there is a dark brotherhood event, it doesn't matter if you had acess once and got to keep the skill line - event rewards are not associated with the skill line but rather acess to the content itself.

Konstant_Tel_Necris · September 2020

Event will be in West Skyrim, those players who got access to Antiquities system can't move there.

joerginger · September 2020

Do these players still get leads and can dig for antiquities?

redspecter23 · September 2020

Konstant_Tel_Necris wrote: »

Event will be in West Skyrim, those players who got access to Antiquities system can't move there.

True, if the event has a quest starter that requires you to talk to someone in Western Skyrim, that's all they have to do to keep it out of the hands of those that don't own the chapter.

But either way, previous events like this would give awards (like the pet, house, guest, etc.) to those that own the DLC and doesn't have anything to do with having a skill line unlocked.

driosketch · September 2020

joerginger wrote: »

Do these players still get leads and can dig for antiquities?

Tickets will require you to do dailies in the chapter.

The antiquity rewards are game wide, I think for those who own the chapter. So those that have the skill line, but not the chapter, can only help those that do get a reward.

MagicalLija · September 2020

Welllll I meannn as long as they're adding to the tiers I'm not complaining.

Every little helps. I want that damn house.

Kittytravel · September 2020

I just... really want an explanation on why it matters that people get the stuff for free to you?
ZOS lost the money not you. Them getting Greymoor free literally costed you nothing.

So just... why does it matter? How does that ruin your experience?? "Augh that guy got the same car I got for free so now my car is absolute shite and has devalued to nothing and the dealer should compensate me with a better one!" Like what???

Sylvermynx · September 2020

/grumble

I really didn't want to buy the chapter - but after taking a short look through Elara Northwind's vid on the house, I really want it too. *sigh*

Magrat · September 2020

It matters because I spent money on it, but it turns out I could have had it for free. I haven't been offered that money back by Zos or given something the freeloaders don't have so I just wasted money which I don't like doing, especially at the moment as I'm about to lose my job thanks to Covid - that is why it matters to me - can't speak for other people.

Daemons_Bane · September 2020

Magrat wrote: »

It matters because I spent money on it, but it turns out I could have had it for free. I haven't been offered that money back by Zos or given something the freeloaders don't have so I just wasted money which I don't like doing, especially at the moment as I'm about to lose my job thanks to Covid - that is why it matters to me - can't speak for other people.

If you liked the DLC, you wasted nothing.. and don't bring corona into it, since you knew about that when you bought the DLC.. yes some might have gotten a skill line for free, so freaking what.? Enjoy that your conscience is clean, you are an upstanding citizen.. they had a stroke of luck, no big deal.. You have lost absolutely nothing

MagicalLija · September 2020

Okay this is the only way I can see them fixing this:
Remove both skill lines, (Resetting them to 0)
Making players have to do the Intro quest in the Antiquity hall again.
Thus only players with Greymoor can access it.

But if we have to level them up to 10 I refuse to do that grind again. There's just no way to do this unless they go in and check every single active character, check whether they have the skill lines, then also check if they have access to greymoor.

I'm already seeing massive issues. Probably going to have to take multiple hours in maintenance. People being reset even if they have access to Greymoor etcetera etcetera...

Daemons_Bane · September 2020

MagicAndrej wrote: »

Okay this is the only way I can see them fixing this:
Remove both skill lines, (Resetting them to 0)
Making players have to do the Intro quest in the Antiquity hall again.
Thus only players with Greymoor can access it.

But if we have to level them up to 10 I refuse to do that grind again. There's just no way to do this unless they go in and check every single active character, check whether they have the skill lines, then also check if they have access to greymoor.

I'm already seeing massive issues. Probably going to have to take multiple hours in maintenance. People being reset even if they have access to Greymoor etcetera etcetera...

That's not an option, as it would cause massive rage.. and come on, all they got was a skill line.. the zone is still locked to them

MagicalLija · September 2020

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

That's not an option, as it would cause massive rage.. and come on, all they got was a skill line.. the zone is still locked to them

I know, I honestly don't care about them having access to it. I'm more annoyed about these posts where people complain about people exploiting something by just logging in and playing the game.

Literally in a year they'll get easy access to it anyways through ESO+ so I see no point in these types of forum posts. People are just getting so heated about it.

lemonizzle · September 2020

Couldn't Zos just check if there was an actual money transfer made among those who have Greymoor or the skill line? I don't know that story's conclusion but if they removed zone access and left in antiquities, it was on purpose. Them having paid or not does not devalue your account or anything.
Look at it this way: more diggers and scryers mean you have more chance to win that cool wooden cabin.

rumple9 · September 2020

They dont have access to it - zos fixed it

Kittytravel · September 2020

Magrat wrote: »

It matters because I spent money on it, but it turns out I could have had it for free. I haven't been offered that money back by Zos or given something the freeloaders don't have so I just wasted money which I don't like doing, especially at the moment as I'm about to lose my job thanks to Covid - that is why it matters to me - can't speak for other people.

Does that logic also apply to... literally everything in life you spend money on. "Turns out I could have had it for free! They should offer me my money back." I'm not trying to be antagonistic but literally ANYTHING can end up free if you are in the right place at the right time... so it's silly to apply that reasoning.

Jpk0012 wrote: »

Kittytravel wrote: »

I just... really want an explanation on why it matters that people get the stuff for free to you?
ZOS lost the money not you. Them getting Greymoor free literally costed you nothing.

So just... why does it matter? How does that ruin your experience?? "Augh that guy got the same car I got for free so now my car is absolute shite and has devalued to nothing and the dealer should compensate me with a better one!" Like what???

[Quoted post was removed]

What does any of this have to do with bootlickers? No one is in here kissing up to ZOS.
OP paid for a product. The product was Greymoor. The product was not Greymoor*.
(*You agree to pay the full amount unless someone anyone anywhere else gets the upgrade for free and then we will refund you your price and give you Greymoor for free.)

Product was delivered other people got lucky; the same logic could apply to literally anything else in life as stated above.

Fischblut · September 2020

I don't like to know that other people can get things for free by exploiting bugs, while I had to spend money for same things

"Augh that guy got the same car I got for free so now my car is absolute shite and has devalued to nothing and the dealer should compensate me with a better one!" Like what???

So, the car shop forgot to close their doors at night and all security staff went home. Some people walked into the shop, got into a cars and rode away. Video cameras recorded this, and the identities of all thieves are known. But the car shop owner decided to let everyone keep all stolen cars

Like what???

It's completely ok if somebody actually got Greymoor for free in intended ways: winning a contest, being lucky in giveaway on Twitch etc, receiving code as gift from a friend/family member.
It's completely wrong if somebody got almost all of Greymoor's features for free cause of bug, and was allowed to keep them.

They dont have access to it - zos fixed it

If somebody accidentally got into Western Skyrim during a bug, and just took a curious stroll around - it's ok, this solution is valid and nothing else was needed.
But if some person got into Greymoor during a bug with intentions to do everything as fast as possible - they got Antiquities skill lines, got quest rewards, got mount parts/colletible antiquities exclusive to Western Skyrim. Even after they lost access to Greymoor's zone, they were allowed to keep everything else the chapter has to offer, weren't they?

And while these things would require exploiters to grind like there's no tomorrow... I have seen somebody with Ebon Wolf mount after less than a day since Greymoor's early release. I don't know if the person was legit owner of Greymoor, or exploiter - but this fact just shows that extreme grind is absolutely possible to do in very short time.

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2020

Fischblut wrote: »

I don't like to know that other people can get things for free by exploiting bugs, while I had to spend money for same things

I get what you mean, and it's human, but isn't the purpose of fighting injustice to help the "unlucky" get more lucky than to take stuff away from the lucky ones ?

Fischblut wrote: »

So, the car shop forgot to close their doors at night and all security staff went home. Some people walked into the shop, got into a cars and rode away. Video cameras recorded this, and the identities of all thieves are known. But the car shop owner decided to let everyone keep all stolen cars Like what???

Actually, it's the shop owner's business, it's up to him to file or not file a complaint, and to act or not to act. You may or may not understand his choices, but it does not actually impact you. You may just see it as a general danger for society to leave crimes unpunished, but that's it. And in this case, just relax, it's only a game...

Fischblut wrote: »

It's completely ok if somebody actually got Greymoor for free in intended ways: winning a contest, being lucky in giveaway on Twitch etc, receiving code as gift from a friend/family member.
It's completely wrong if somebody got almost all of Greymoor's features for free cause of bug, and was allowed to keep them.

So your neighbour is a billionaire. It's OK if it's Jeff Bezos, and it's not if it's a member of "la casa de papel" ... ?

(I take the example of "la casa de papel" on purpose, because in this fictional situation, money gets stolen but noone gets actually robbed. That's very similar to this Greymoor bug we're talking about. "exploiters" - as you call them did take advantage of a situation for themselves, yes, but did not harm anyone in the process.)

zaria · September 2020

Linaleah wrote: »

ok, I just have to verify, because these threads are pretty giant. did ZoS remove acess to actual chapter from people that didn't buy it?

because event prerequisite is ownership of the CHAPTER. NOT acess to the skill line.

kinda like... when there is a dark brotherhood event, it doesn't matter if you had acess once and got to keep the skill line - event rewards are not associated with the skill line but rather acess to the content itself.

Then Skyim was released it was open for all so people grabbed the Antiquities skill line. You did not need their headquarter in Solitude afterward as you leveled up using the skills not doing quests for them like T and DB.

Now you will need access to Southern Skyrim to get lost treasures that but one month of ESO+ solves it

inkstrider · September 2020

Fischblut wrote: »

It's completely ok if somebody actually got Greymoor for free in intended ways: winning a contest, being lucky in giveaway on Twitch etc, receiving code as gift from a friend/family member.
It's completely wrong if somebody got almost all of Greymoor's features for free cause of bug, and was allowed to keep them.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote:

So your neighbour is a billionaire. It's OK if it's Jeff Bezos, and it's not if it's a member of "la casa de papel" ... ?

(I take the example of "la casa de papel" on purpose, because in this fictional situation, money gets stolen but noone gets actually robbed. That's very similar to this Greymoor bug we're talking about. "exploiters" - as you call them did take advantage of a situation for themselves, yes, but did not harm anyone in the process.)

I see Fischblut's point but I don't get how your Jeff Bezos analogy relates to this scenario.

Yes, objectively speaking no one was harmed and no one lost anything. These guys merely took advantage of the situation and benefitted from them.

And yet, I couldn't help feeling a sense of inequity here as they got to keep their spoils by doing something they weren't allowed to due to another party's (Zos) lack of foresight or incompetence. Though perhaps it's due to technical constraints that these collectibles can't actually be removed once bound to an account.

IRL, this situation has similarities with somebody who was able to take advantage of an evolving situation and benefitted from it. It's not exactly his/her fault (kudos to them really). You can only blame the system or the party overseeing the system for their oversight or carelessness.

If you're somebody who paid and did it the "right way" to gain access to the benefit, it is only natural to feel short-changed. Cos why sacrifice so much for something that you could potentially have gotten for free?

Artorias24 · September 2020

SydneyGrey wrote: »

How can you call them an "exploiter" when it's not their fault that ZOS didn't fix this, and the Skyrim event hasn't even happened yet?

(I bought Greymoor, btw.)

For dusk coven even best in slot gear is considered an exploit.... So dunno man. Soon he will call crafting an exploit.

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2020

inkstrider wrote: »

I see Fischblut's point but I don't get how your Jeff Bezos analogy relates to this scenario.

Because I believe there is some sort of hidden / unconscious envy in Fischblut's reasoning, and that legal-legit vs. illegal-non-legit is not the core issue in his mind. I believe that people getting stuff for free while we have to pay & work for it is a situation where we always get negative feelings, and become envious (instead of simply happy for the happy few).

But anyway I'm not here to read other people's minds, I may just as well be wrong.

inkstrider wrote: »

If you're somebody who paid and did it the "right way" to gain access to the benefit, it is only natural to feel short-changed. Cos why sacrifice so much for something that you could potentially have gotten for free?

But let's take a theoretical situation where you're sitting on a train. You paid your ticket full price, your neighbour only paid half the price because of a last-minute (legit) bargain, and your other neighbour has no ticket at all : he jumped onto the train when he heard the staff checking the tickets was on strike. Now would you really jump onto your high horse, asking for that person to be fined or thrown out of the train or punished in any way ? I know I wouldn't. Would you feel a bit silly for having paid full price instead of waiting and looking for a last minute deal ? I know I would. But the blame is on me.

That's how I see the situation with the initial Greymoor bug. People jumped onto the train as soon as they heard that tickets would not be checked. Enjoyed it as long as they could and got off the train once the system was fixed.
I don't see a point in calling them all sorts of names and wishing them punished at all cost.

method__01 · September 2020

i got nothing to loose or gain from these players who accidentally got something they didn't suppose to have
happened in the past and proly will happen again,if zos permits them to play,let them play

hafgood · September 2020

The thing is, they didn't get Greymoor for free. They got access to Greymoor when they shouldn't have and have a skill line they shouldn't be able to use.

The access to Greymoor was taken away. Whether the skill line was or not I don't know but would assume it goes dormant like others do when you no longer have access to the DLC.

As you have to have Greymoor to benefit from the event, and to even get event tickets, they have benefited not at all by the access when they hadn't paid for it.

So noone is getting anything they shouldn't and if you want the house you have to buy Greymoor like the rest of us.

Arunei · September 2020

I really don't get the mentality of "they got it for free and I could have too so now I'm angry I paid" thing. That logic can apply to literally anything in life, and if you go through life being resentful that other people got something for free that you've paid for, it's just going to make you a bitter and unpleasant person. It isn't anything that's directly affected you, you still have full access to everything you paid for, right?

The thing that gets me is the people calling the people who played when they didn't pay exploiters are essentially saying "if I'd known this would happen I wouldn't have paid either" which just means...they're saying they would have exploited too? It makes it sound like they're jealous they didn't have a chance to get it "for free". Which no one got to keep Greymoor in the end who didn't pay for it. Sure, they could keep stuff they got while they could access the chapter (I assume, but I don't actually know, and I wonder if the "they exploited" people know or not or are just assuming too), but they can't do anything in regards to the chapter except maybe Antiquities. And have any of the "they exploited" people considered maybe ZOS can't just yoink things from accounts?

In the end if people without Greymoor but who got the Antiq lines can Scry and Excavate, maybe other people should stop whining how they're getting rewarded for exploiting and be happy there are more people to help us unlock the rewards. Someone also already mentioned that you have to have the chapter to get the rewards anyway, so you can stop going on about "But the exploiters will be rewarded unfairly!" since they also can't take part in the part of the event that requires you doing stuff in Western Skyrim without access to the chapter.

inkstrider · September 2020

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

That's how I see the situation with the initial Greymoor bug. People jumped onto the train as soon as they heard that tickets would not be checked. Enjoyed it as long as they could and got off the train once the system was fixed.
I don't see a point in calling them all sorts of names and wishing them punished at all cost.

Yeah, it was a free ride and many excitedly took it. As it's the ticket collector/train operator's oversight that led to this, the train operator couldn't exactly fully pin the blame on the free riders and punish them. But I think it fair that the collectibles (if any) they obtained be taken away from them.

The intention also matters (intentional exploit vs inadvertent exploration). I think OP was associating this event to the former.

In schools, if teachers allowed the few kids who exploited to fully get away with their actions, they are indirectly encouraging other students to do the same should a similar situation occur in the future. It's partly also about integrity.

Likewise, if the offenders here are not punished, there's no reason why we should abide by the rules of the game. Same logic applies to the cheaters and the botters.

crowfl56 · September 2020

Cheaters are going to cheat.

That in a nut shell is what's happening.

Ban the cheaters, IMO.

Take all their ill gotten stuff too.

ZOS doesn't care about cheater's/exploiters and it shows in NA/PC pvp GH.

There are so many exploits happening in pvp its just stupid.

To many unkillable builds now.

Ball groups just ended up just being griefers, especially one faction, wow.

You can kill anyone just about with 1 hit from a CF siege, but not those ball groups, they don't even take dmg.

To much exploiting ruins a game.

SickleCider · September 2020

This reminds me of the black Indrik fiasco. It was the first Indrik I tried to evolve, and I happened to stumble on the one berry evolution bug, so I got mine early. People on the forums talked in broad strokes about how people who benefitted from the bug had to be punished. People in game asked me how I got it, I told them it was a bug (without explaining how to replicate it), and they were 100% positive and congratulatory. I did file a report, so I fully believe ZOS was aware I had a contraband Indrik, but they clearly decided they didn't need to pull it from me.

Take what you will from this story.

novemberhhh · September 2020

o look the op is making more posts about exploiters, much surprise big wow
they patched the exploit and thus those dead posts are pointless now btw