Ganking Players Fighting Mobs (IC)

Gorreck · September 2020

Herr_Flocke wrote: »

don't really want to burst your bubble, but this exact behavior is as old as there is pvp in mmorpg's. Or why do you think UO felt the need to invent the Trammel/Felucca schisma back in the good old days

UO was the first and things developed more after that time, remember back in 1997 you'd basically get 3 death threats a week for stating an opinion on anything, the web was a differenct place back then.

Linaleah wrote: »

I started playing WoW back in BC. I distinctly remember this alliance dude doing their outmost best to trick me into flagging so they could kill me. and that was on pve server. pvp server was far FAR worse.

"don't make me get my main" is kind of a famous WoW machinima and its for a reason. I also had this stuff happen in SWTOR, back at launch. Reputation is still a factor in ESO. its just... gankers are not nearly as condemned as you think they are, and haven't been even back then. more often then not - they are admired instead. not by everyone. but by enough people to encourage rather then discourage them. enough for that reputation - play to their advantage.

WoW had server rep, but as the first (and only) truly massive MMORPG (with a genuine 10,000,000 at its peak) it wasn't as important as earlier games and smaller games.

Also PvE servers are PvE servers, they are full of people that wouldn't last 5 mins on a PvP server, but do silly things like you mention (mostly because they couldn't be revenge camped on a PvE server I'd guess).

Gorreck · September 2020

thorwyn wrote: »

The mega-server enviroment tends to favour a very specific type of player that wouldn't have flourished on old style PvP MMORPG servers.

This is completely untrue. In DAoC, people used to camp mile gate choke points, boat stations or quest mobs with the sole purpose of ganking inexperienced players. Sometimes, people would even walk all the way into the enemy realm, find xp spots and kill the buffbots of low levels. This playstyle has been around since 2002 and probably even earlier.

There's never been a server without gankers, and that is not remotely what I'm saying, but equally in DAOC if you repeatedly cheesed you'd get known for it and you'd often be directly targetted and hunted.

On full PvP servers where there was no where to hide that was risky (unless you were Fansy) and there were plenty of people that did not do that (where as the poster I was replying to was claiming ALL PvPers basically cheesed at every oppertunity - that is nonsense, I've been in many PvP guild that never ganked or killed people that were vastly outnumbered or outclassed [unless they REALLY asked for it]).

Linaleah · September 2020

Gorreck wrote: »

Herr_Flocke wrote: »

don't really want to burst your bubble, but this exact behavior is as old as there is pvp in mmorpg's. Or why do you think UO felt the need to invent the Trammel/Felucca schisma back in the good old days

UO was the first and things developed more after that time, remember back in 1997 you'd basically get 3 death threats a week for stating an opinion on anything, the web was a differenct place back then.

Linaleah wrote: »

I started playing WoW back in BC. I distinctly remember this alliance dude doing their outmost best to trick me into flagging so they could kill me. and that was on pve server. pvp server was far FAR worse.

"don't make me get my main" is kind of a famous WoW machinima and its for a reason. I also had this stuff happen in SWTOR, back at launch. Reputation is still a factor in ESO. its just... gankers are not nearly as condemned as you think they are, and haven't been even back then. more often then not - they are admired instead. not by everyone. but by enough people to encourage rather then discourage them. enough for that reputation - play to their advantage.

WoW had server rep, but as the first (and only) truly massive MMORPG (with a genuine 10,000,000 at its peak) it wasn't as important as earlier games and smaller games.

Also PvE servers are PvE servers, they are full of people that wouldn't last 5 mins on a PvP server, but do silly things like you mention (mostly because they couldn't be revenge camped on a PvE server I'd guess).

some of the most infamous and revered gankers in WoW - played on pvp servers. there are even threads documenting all the hate whispers they were getting as well as people who were in awe over getting killed by them, as if celebrity they adore, nodded at them and acknowledged their presence. here's a writeup about the most infamous one. https://www.pcgamer.com/meet-world-of-warcrafts-most-notorious-ganker/

WoW was massive, but not nearly as massive at launch as you'd think. people on servers very much did know each other and reputation mattered even in BC both in pve and pvp. heck... I mained a hunter in BC and eventually I had enough reputation on my original server as a hunter who knew how to chain trap, to have MUCH easier time getting dungeon groups. as a personal example.

wow server rep didn't really stop being important until late Wrath when they not only introduced random dungeon finder, but made it cross server. because now you could be as terrible as you wanted to and you would still get groups for most things.

but in any case. I'm not sure you can call stealthers hiding out at key points - cheesing. they still need to have enough burst to slaughter their targets quickly, evade as needed, etc. its rather more of the fact of HOW they chose their targets that can be... unpleasant.

Minyassa · September 2020

Basically you have to kind of ignore the PvE labeling on IC. It's really not. That's just the technical term for "there are quests there". In that aspect, Cyrodiil is just as PvE, having quests and NPCs to fight. You have to assume the entire goal of anyone there is to kill you. If you are there to get event tickets, just don't, do a dungeon instead. If you are there to check off the quest achievements, find a time of day when the population is really low, buff up your stealth and speed, find a campaign where your faction has the highest population, stay in stealth at all times, and never carry any Tel Var stones on you. The very second you are forced to kill an NPC, get back to base and deposit them no matter how piddling an amount they are. Make it worthless for someone to keep going after you and unless they are there to troll, they will learn you are a waste of their time and look for better prey and you can get a couple of quests in before many more trolls come along.

RE: laying there dead to collect on Molag Bal...that doesn't always work. Unless you have all day/night to wait, some groups will sit there and camp your body so you can't do that. Again, low population hours might help.

SeaGtGruff · September 2020

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

I just want all the PVErs out of IC. If either of those options works for that then that's fine.

Why? How are you ever going to convert PvErs to PvP if you don't even want them to be able to enter PvP areas? Certainly a lot of them aren't going to be converted anytime soon, but some of them might just discover that PvP can be fun.

StamPlar_1976 · September 2020

I love it. And they are called targets of opportunity. A tactic that is as old as the first animal that stepped on land. I'm there to kill and will get my kill by any means necessary that is allowed by the rules. I'm not there to make you feel good. I'm not there to make you feel bad either. Even though that is usually the byproduct.

Don't want to get killed while fighting npcs? Bring a group or don't go to a pvp zone.

Hapexamendios · September 2020

It's a coward taking advantage of someone not paying attention.

Jaraal · September 2020

Minyassa wrote: »

Basically you have to kind of ignore the PvE labeling on IC. It's really not. That's just the technical term for "there are quests there".

I'll disagree with that.

My primary focus in IC is farming Daedra for tel var, key fragments, epic deconstructables, ornates, Hakeijo runes, etc. I won't back down from a PvP fight, but there are better players out there than I and they are not a steady source of income for me like the Daedra are. With a dedicated farming build I can collect 1-3k tel var every 5 minutes. Tel var buys me runeboxes, armor sets, crafting materials to sell, and key fragments can be sold outright or turned into items to sell as well. Plus I do enough dailies to earn a Siege of Cyrodiil merit from opening a Siegemaster's Coffer every day. I also like taking flags for 1500 AP a pop..... and it's fun to see how long I can survive when they come to take them back.

Nicole94 · September 2020

markulrich1966 wrote: »

the moment I get ganked I think "a*holes, stupid psychopaths".

However with a little distance, I have a more objective view.

I think many of them are used to games like Quake 3 Arena, a very fast paced pvp.

Hmm I am not sure I can agree. My brother dislikes, but occasionally will play an MMO like ESO or WoW. That said, he thinks MMO pvp is a joke and constantly talks about it when it comes up in discord. "PVP was made for FPS" Or" MMO PvP is like crouch only servers for old people". I doubt anyone cares but, it is comforting to know that as much as "hardcore" pvper's in an mmo seem to dislike the pve people, FPS think the same things about them

hahaha and the world keeps turning

I don't think "hardcore" represents most of ESO pvp community. I have met plenty of really great pvpers in ESO that are very helpful and friendly. Go into a dungeon and fail at a mechanic once or twice and get screamed at for asking what to do to improve, compared to joining a pvp group and ask for tips and people will stop whatever they are doing to give you advice once they know you are sincerely wanting to learn. I enjoy it

Even if i am not very good at it.

Minyassa · September 2020

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

I just want all the PVErs out of IC. If either of those options works for that then that's fine.

Why? How are you ever going to convert PvErs to PvP if you don't even want them to be able to enter PvP areas? Certainly a lot of them aren't going to be converted anytime soon, but some of them might just discover that PvP can be fun.

That's precisely why I always help to advise people on how best to avoid PvP areas if possible. I was excited to try PvP in this game, having come from another where PvP was pretty toxic. I had friends who were willing to teach me. I tried it. I ran into jerk after jerk after jerk, I got hate whispers for dying, I got teabagged, and my groups were like "yeah, unfortunately there are just people like that, you have to ignore them." But I'm not the sort of person who can just ignore some stranger screaming obscenities at me or randomly making rude gestures I did nothing to ask for. I check etiquette first, I avoid cheese builds, I go out of my way not to step on people's toes, and when I get abused for it anyway...I leave. Because that crap makes things un-fun, and I am in the game to have fun. They say that doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is a definition of insanity. I chose sanity and so I won't PvP. I have friends who are PvEers who will not even try it because they are the same way, they don't play to have a stranger be spitty to them, and I don't blame them. I will be honest with them about the state of the PvP community in this game and help them find alternative ways to get stuff, or do achievements without running into too much action. You can't convert people when the bad outweighs the good, and it looks like the majority doesn't even want to.

idk · September 2020

Dovakhan wrote: »

Herr_Flocke wrote: »

Dovakhan wrote: »

[snip]

Who's talking about the current event? What about people who just want to do the IC/Cyrodiil quests?

[snip]

I get it you don't like PVP, and you'd rather have de-PVP'ed PVP zones, so it suits your preferences better. Same goes the other way round though, other players have other preferences. Guess we all have to live with what the game offers and act accordingly.

See, I for one do like the occassional PVP but I don't like Battleground drama. So I just don't do Battlegrounds, easy as that. I also don't like farming dungeons for gear for the umpteenth time, but I still like the gear, so I just do it and live with the boredom and watch NFX in the background to ease the burden.

[snip]

[snip]

[snip] Can you PvE at all in BG's? [snip]

[snip] that the IC (and, to a lesser extent, Cyrodiil) are MIXED PvE/PvP zones (even by Zenimax' own definition), and that there are STORIES, NPC's and bosses that people wants to play and enjoy without some PvP hero jumping out to kill them, even when they're CLEARLY limiting themselves to do the PvE content.
[snip] I wonder why Zenimax bothers at all with story expansions and doesn't make purely dungeons and new PvP zones instead. It'd be way cheaper for them, and probably just as profitable.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Considering most of the major MMORPGs and their expansions are heavily weighted towards PvE (FF14, WoW, and ESO) it would seem that PvE zones are the biggest moneymakers.

Edit: Even New World has taken a step back from total open PvP and also adding PvE with a focus on end game when they look at the PvE.

Girl_Number8 · September 2020

IC is a risk reward gameplay which is what makes it so exciting. There are plenty of PvE only areas, IC is not that nor should it ever be.

IC is mixtured but it is PvP and when you’re there you are playing PvP.

So prepare for it as a PvPer. There are plenty of guides with great suggestions to help non-PvPers with that.

It’s a game have fun. If it is not fun than play another part of the game that is.

SeaGtGruff · September 2020

Minyassa wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

I just want all the PVErs out of IC. If either of those options works for that then that's fine.

Why? How are you ever going to convert PvErs to PvP if you don't even want them to be able to enter PvP areas? Certainly a lot of them aren't going to be converted anytime soon, but some of them might just discover that PvP can be fun.

That's precisely why I always help to advise people on how best to avoid PvP areas if possible. I was excited to try PvP in this game, having come from another where PvP was pretty toxic. I had friends who were willing to teach me. I tried it. I ran into jerk after jerk after jerk, I got hate whispers for dying, I got teabagged, and my groups were like "yeah, unfortunately there are just people like that, you have to ignore them." But I'm not the sort of person who can just ignore some stranger screaming obscenities at me or randomly making rude gestures I did nothing to ask for. I check etiquette first, I avoid cheese builds, I go out of my way not to step on people's toes, and when I get abused for it anyway...I leave. Because that crap makes things un-fun, and I am in the game to have fun. They say that doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is a definition of insanity. I chose sanity and so I won't PvP. I have friends who are PvEers who will not even try it because they are the same way, they don't play to have a stranger be spitty to them, and I don't blame them. I will be honest with them about the state of the PvP community in this game and help them find alternative ways to get stuff, or do achievements without running into too much action. You can't convert people when the bad outweighs the good, and it looks like the majority doesn't even want to.

I hear you, and I'm the same way-- playing the game to have fun. It's no fun when you start to attack 2 NPCs and a Daedroth only to have an enemy player uncloak and kill you while you're distracted and half depleted so you can't fight back properly, or do the same as you're setting a trap or lighting a ballista on fire, etc. They choose their moments deliberately, and it's easy to get upset by it, but I just shrug it off because it's part of the game and I knew about that possibility ahead of time.

But every once in a while I come out the victor-- very rarely, but it's happened, and it gives me hope that I'm not completely a lost cause as a PvPer. The other night I was trying to sabotage the forge and had to fight off some NPCs first, then just as I was about to destroy the forge an enemy player starts blasting me with a staff. Once upon a time I would have just turned and tried to run-- and sometimes I still do-- but I've gotten to where I'll usually try to fight back even though I expect to get killed pretty quickly. But when I ran up to this player who was blasting me with a staff, I took a few swings at them and could see that I was doing real damage, so I took a few more swings and was able to kill them. Part of me felt a little bit sorry to have to kill a player; but then again I didn't start the fight, so I didn't feel too sorry.

Another time I was in the sewers after having completed all 6 of the dailies, and there was an enemy player near our base who killed me as I was fighting some NPCs. I respawned in the base and went out for more, and sure enough he was still there and he killed me again. I respawned and waited up on the safe platform, and he uncloaked near the platform and started taunting me with whispers, to which I replied "wutevs." He offered to let me come down "for free"-- presumably so he could kill me as soon as I tried to get past him-- but I just stood up on the platform and ignored his taunts. Then suddenly a few friendly players came running in on their way back to the base, and one of them wiped the guy while he was taunting me instead of paying attention. I almost felt sorry for him.

SamanthaCarter · September 2020

Delete detec pots and [snip] for fight should be a standard (no bait)

[edited for baiting]

Jaraal · September 2020

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Another time I was in the sewers after having completed all 6 of the dailies, and there was an enemy player near our base who killed me as I was fighting some NPCs. I respawned in the base and went out for more, and sure enough he was still there and he killed me again. I respawned and waited up on the safe platform, and he uncloaked near the platform and started taunting me with whispers, to which I replied "wutevs." He offered to let me come down "for free"-- presumably so he could kill me as soon as I tried to get past him-- but I just stood up on the platform and ignored his taunts. Then suddenly a few friendly players came running in on their way back to the base, and one of them wiped the guy while he was taunting me instead of paying attention. I almost felt sorry for him.

A lot of folks only have bad experiences at first, so they think everything is going to be bad, and that's not the case.

I was killing Daedra in the sewers this morning, and happened upon an enemy player. I waited to see his next move, and he closed on me. So I fought with him..... for a good 30 seconds. He finally backed off and held block, so I knew he had had enough. I went on my way, and he whispered me asking about my gear setup, mundus, etcetera. I ended up chatting with him about gear and strategy, as we were the same class, and we said good fight, have a great day, see ya around.

Just because people happen to be playing a different alliance doesn't mean they are all jerks. Learn to accept that there will be bad, but also good. Playing just PvE doesn't exclude you from rude behavior.... who hasn't been fighting mobs near a treasure chest only to have somebody swoop in and open it while you're fighting, then maybe wave, make a rude gesture, or whisper "Thanks for the loot."

Rudeness is not exclusive to PvP.

ZaroktheImmortal · September 2020

Even in Imperial City on my pvp toon I usually won't bother someone unless they attack me or are taking flags. Just yesterday I saw someone of another alliance fighting mobs I just left them to it and kept on.

Beardimus · September 2020

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

What would it matter to you?

... ZOS shouldn't waste time catering to a handful of players refusing to play a zone as it was designed.

ZOS can waste their time doing whatever they want. Would you be mad at people getting rewards you had to gank and hide to get?

That you had to run off-peak hours to hunt through, or spend time with groups to zerg your way through?

I mean, whats it matter to you? What if they could flip a switch and you'd never be affected by it?

Would you be mad at the skins, polymorphs, pets, and telvar rewards? You can buy those in a trader for gold. Not even step foot in IC.

Some people on these forums see depriving others as their highest calling.

jaws343 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

If they made a PVE version of Imperial City or Cyro I guarantee you PVPers would lose their *** and some would probably quit the game.

Cant be a ganker if everone's a ganker.

Nope, at least I wouldn't, but there is one condition, same as with PvE Cyrodiil. No Alliance Points and Tel Vars for PvE version. That's all. Then you can have your PvE Cyrodiil and IC.

I'd go even further. No rewards at all if this became a PVE only zone. You can complete your quests, explore the zone, grab skyshards and books and fish, but absolutely zero drops from mobs and zero drops from quest turn ins. No Tel Var, AP, Key Frags, gold, boxes, nothing. Don't want to take the actual risk the PvPvE zone poses, you don't deserve any rewards for it.

No rewards? What about the storyline in the zone? You are too focused on the PvP stuff....

Yeah, none. The rewards come with the risk of PVP in the zone. No risk, no rewards.

The only thing I might request is say 1/2 or even 1/10th the Tel Var. That would fit the current paradigm without all the interruptions in working through the story, which I have been doing on a couple of characters.

Though I would still ask what is the point of your anger on this? Tel Var is not all that useful.

It's not about depriving, it's about playing the game.

I don't like trials or the PvE clique that exists in them. Can I have a way to get all the gear please without doing them?

Or vMA should that be free for PvPers too?

Not attacking you @FlopsyPrince just perspective. It's the only hybrid zone in the game, it's very possible solo. Clearly not during an event but Imp City does not have such a vast population that you can't complete the questline. I know as I've done it on several toons before I got into PvP.

Just don't rock up in a peak gaming period and expect it to be quiet..

I think the majority of gripes in this thread are from players turning up in an event and having a hard time, or have been killed once or twice by players and for some reason (each to their own) get massively upset by it. Just keep trying, come back when it's quieter

Also the middle event has been mentioned by @Dohvahkiin which is dead 98% of the year. These evil PvP gankers you are expecting are not sat there waiting, honnestly.

Lastly, PvP is not this big evil world of chaos you think it is. Join a PvP guild, get a PvP setup and don't go to a PvP zone with entitlement. See it as a challenge and work around it / with it..

Like you have to do with
-PvE Vet Trials
-hard mode / no death skins
-vMA
-vDSA
- trading to earn millions
- fishing

All require adaption and the right mindset. And if you can't get into it just leave that area of the game rather than as for it to be dumbed down..

If you can't find a quiet 30 mins in IC to earn 60k stones soloing all the bosses. And an hour when it's quiet to do the questine I'd be very suprised..

FlopsyPrince · September 2020

Beardimus wrote: »

Not attacking you @FlopsyPrince just perspective. It's the only hybrid zone in the game, it's very possible solo. Clearly not during an event but Imp City does not have such a vast population that you can't complete the questline. I know as I've done it on several toons before I got into PvP.

Just don't rock up in a peak gaming period and expect it to be quiet..

I think the majority of gripes in this thread are from players turning up in an event and having a hard time, or have been killed once or twice by players and for some reason (each to their own) get massively upset by it. Just keep trying, come back when it's quieter

Also the middle event has been mentioned by @Dohvahkiin which is dead 98% of the year. These evil PvP gankers you are expecting are not sat there waiting, honnestly.

Lastly, PvP is not this big evil world of chaos you think it is. Join a PvP guild, get a PvP setup and don't go to a PvP zone with entitlement. See it as a challenge and work around it / with it..

Like you have to do with
-PvE Vet Trials
-hard mode / no death skins
-vMA
-vDSA
- trading to earn millions
- fishing

All require adaption and the right mindset. And if you can't get into it just leave that area of the game rather than as for it to be dumbed down..

If you can't find a quiet 30 mins in IC to earn 60k stones soloing all the bosses. And an hour when it's quiet to do the questine I'd be very suprised..

I asked the OP for an answer.

I personally don't matter some losing. That is fine. But trying to free 4 skeletons and getting ganked multiple times or having the same trying to free 12 citizens does get frustrating after the 6th time trying, with breaks in other areas in between.

I suppose the "be a jerk" aspect it far from my personality, so I find it very crude. Teabagging is very juvenile, but many seem to thrive on that.

Runaerian · September 2020

i asked the OP for an answer.

I personally don't matter some losing. That is fine. But trying to free 4 skeletons and getting ganked multiple times or having the same trying to free 12 citizens does get frustrating after the 6th time trying, with breaks in other areas in between.

I suppose the "be a jerk" aspect it far from my personality, so I find it very crude. Teabagging is very juvenile, but many seem to thrive on that.

You keep getting your answer but it seems it's not the answer you want. The whole point of that quest being IN A PVP ZONE is to make it more challenging, to add a different dimension of gameplay for those that want it. This is AS ZOS INTENDED.

As far as rude or childish behaviour is concerned that's just human nature. Give people more freedom and some will abuse it. That doesn't mean that everyone has to have their freedom curtailed just because some people are immature. Leave PvP zones for those who enjoy everything that comes along with PvP including ganking and who can handle or just brush off other people's behaviour. I'm not malicious about it and don't camp people but I go to a PvP zone to PVP. If you're there and you're red, I'm gonna kill you. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT LOL. If you don't want that then don't go there.

To me it's like moving to Beijing then complaining there are Chinese people everywhere.

FlopsyPrince · September 2020

Runaerian wrote: »

i asked the OP for an answer.

I personally don't matter some losing. That is fine. But trying to free 4 skeletons and getting ganked multiple times or having the same trying to free 12 citizens does get frustrating after the 6th time trying, with breaks in other areas in between.

I suppose the "be a jerk" aspect it far from my personality, so I find it very crude. Teabagging is very juvenile, but many seem to thrive on that.

You keep getting your answer but it seems it's but the answer you want. The whole point of that quest being IN A PVP ZONE is to make it more challenging, to add a different dimension of gameplay for those that want it. This is AS ZOS INTENDED.

As far as rude or childish behaviour is concerned that's just human nature. Give people more freedom and some will abuse it. That doesn't mean that everyone has to have their freedom curtailed just because some people do that. Leave PvP zones for those who enjoy everything that comes along with PvP including ganking. I'm not malicious about it and don't camp people but I go to PvP zone to PVP. If you don't want that then don't go there.

To me it's like moving to Beijing then complaining there are Chinese people everywhere.

My last reply was too clipped on the first sentence. I meant that I legitimately asked the question in the OP. I wanted to know the answer.

I am not the one arguing here, though I did break down and post a couple of times. (Not my trend if you look in other threads.)

The first reply was probably the most informative, whether I like that kind of play or not. I just wanted to know if more mature people did that, and it seems they do, though I suspect even those don't camp final quest points.

Runaerian · September 2020

Ok fair enough. Sorry I misunderstood where you were coming from.

Gorreck · September 2020

Linaleah wrote: »

Gorreck wrote: »

Herr_Flocke wrote: »

don't really want to burst your bubble, but this exact behavior is as old as there is pvp in mmorpg's. Or why do you think UO felt the need to invent the Trammel/Felucca schisma back in the good old days

UO was the first and things developed more after that time, remember back in 1997 you'd basically get 3 death threats a week for stating an opinion on anything, the web was a differenct place back then.

Linaleah wrote: »

I started playing WoW back in BC. I distinctly remember this alliance dude doing their outmost best to trick me into flagging so they could kill me. and that was on pve server. pvp server was far FAR worse.

"don't make me get my main" is kind of a famous WoW machinima and its for a reason. I also had this stuff happen in SWTOR, back at launch. Reputation is still a factor in ESO. its just... gankers are not nearly as condemned as you think they are, and haven't been even back then. more often then not - they are admired instead. not by everyone. but by enough people to encourage rather then discourage them. enough for that reputation - play to their advantage.

WoW had server rep, but as the first (and only) truly massive MMORPG (with a genuine 10,000,000 at its peak) it wasn't as important as earlier games and smaller games.

Also PvE servers are PvE servers, they are full of people that wouldn't last 5 mins on a PvP server, but do silly things like you mention (mostly because they couldn't be revenge camped on a PvE server I'd guess).

some of the most infamous and revered gankers in WoW - played on pvp servers. there are even threads documenting all the hate whispers they were getting as well as people who were in awe over getting killed by them, as if celebrity they adore, nodded at them and acknowledged their presence. here's a writeup about the most infamous one. https://www.pcgamer.com/meet-world-of-warcrafts-most-notorious-ganker/

WoW was massive, but not nearly as massive at launch as you'd think. people on servers very much did know each other and reputation mattered even in BC both in pve and pvp. heck... I mained a hunter in BC and eventually I had enough reputation on my original server as a hunter who knew how to chain trap, to have MUCH easier time getting dungeon groups. as a personal example.

wow server rep didn't really stop being important until late Wrath when they not only introduced random dungeon finder, but made it cross server. because now you could be as terrible as you wanted to and you would still get groups for most things.

but in any case. I'm not sure you can call stealthers hiding out at key points - cheesing. they still need to have enough burst to slaughter their targets quickly, evade as needed, etc. its rather more of the fact of HOW they chose their targets that can be... unpleasant.

WoW had 10 times the population of any other existing Western MMORPG by a few months after launch and only grew.

But again I'm not saying gankers did not exist, but people that acted like #######'s ended up being both ostricised and hunted (athough in WoW there were enough servers people could and would swap for that very reason).

I knew most serious PvPers and PvErs on my server (as I did on pretty much every server I played on from UO, EQ1, WoW, LOTRO, WAR and others), and again on the PvP servers you couldn't "hide in PvE" and concequences were more direct.

Grianasteri · September 2020

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

So what is the point? Do the people doing this just want lots of AP or maybe TelVar? Do they enjoy causing other players to have a bad time? Something else?

It does make it VERY frustrating, but I am trying to understand the point of this and whether they feel good when they are done or something else.

(This is a real question. I could easily rant, but I am not trying to do that here.)

Are any of you who are here (and will admit it) able to give insight on that behavior?

Well, yeah, I'll gank anyone that presents a gankable target. Its a pvp zone. Everyone is fair game, whatever they are doing or engaged in.

I've had it done to me as well. You really cant expect to enter a pvp zone and be left alone by players from an enemy alliance. Everyone wants AP, everyone wants Telvar.

All I can suggest is group up to decrease the chance of being ganked. I think twice about ganking any player that is part of a group, because they represent a far greater risk.

Inaya · September 2020

Gorreck wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Gorreck wrote: »

Herr_Flocke wrote: »

don't really want to burst your bubble, but this exact behavior is as old as there is pvp in mmorpg's. Or why do you think UO felt the need to invent the Trammel/Felucca schisma back in the good old days

UO was the first and things developed more after that time, remember back in 1997 you'd basically get 3 death threats a week for stating an opinion on anything, the web was a differenct place back then.

Linaleah wrote: »

I started playing WoW back in BC. I distinctly remember this alliance dude doing their outmost best to trick me into flagging so they could kill me. and that was on pve server. pvp server was far FAR worse.

"don't make me get my main" is kind of a famous WoW machinima and its for a reason. I also had this stuff happen in SWTOR, back at launch. Reputation is still a factor in ESO. its just... gankers are not nearly as condemned as you think they are, and haven't been even back then. more often then not - they are admired instead. not by everyone. but by enough people to encourage rather then discourage them. enough for that reputation - play to their advantage.

WoW had server rep, but as the first (and only) truly massive MMORPG (with a genuine 10,000,000 at its peak) it wasn't as important as earlier games and smaller games.

Also PvE servers are PvE servers, they are full of people that wouldn't last 5 mins on a PvP server, but do silly things like you mention (mostly because they couldn't be revenge camped on a PvE server I'd guess).

some of the most infamous and revered gankers in WoW - played on pvp servers. there are even threads documenting all the hate whispers they were getting as well as people who were in awe over getting killed by them, as if celebrity they adore, nodded at them and acknowledged their presence. here's a writeup about the most infamous one. https://www.pcgamer.com/meet-world-of-warcrafts-most-notorious-ganker/

WoW was massive, but not nearly as massive at launch as you'd think. people on servers very much did know each other and reputation mattered even in BC both in pve and pvp. heck... I mained a hunter in BC and eventually I had enough reputation on my original server as a hunter who knew how to chain trap, to have MUCH easier time getting dungeon groups. as a personal example.

wow server rep didn't really stop being important until late Wrath when they not only introduced random dungeon finder, but made it cross server. because now you could be as terrible as you wanted to and you would still get groups for most things.

but in any case. I'm not sure you can call stealthers hiding out at key points - cheesing. they still need to have enough burst to slaughter their targets quickly, evade as needed, etc. its rather more of the fact of HOW they chose their targets that can be... unpleasant.

WoW had 10 times the population of any other existing Western MMORPG by a few months after launch and only grew.

But again I'm not saying gankers did not exist, but people that acted like #######'s ended up being both ostricised and hunted (athough in WoW there were enough servers people could and would swap for that very reason).

I knew most serious PvPers and PvErs on my server (as I did on pretty much every server I played on from UO, EQ1, WoW, LOTRO, WAR and others), and again on the PvP servers you couldn't "hide in PvE" and concequences were more direct.

Wow servers are cesspools now. Everything started to go downhill when you could transfer servers whenever you felt like it. PVP was flat out nasty almost from the beginning and most people who just wanted to have fun turned off their chat so they didn't have to hear some legend in his own mind *** shout orders and call everyone stupid. I'd go heal my BF who got the "High Warlord" title back in Vanilla and it was awful then. Only reason I went is because no one messed with me and I healed him lol

ESO PVP is a billion times nicer than WOW ever was.

ChaosWotan · September 2020

It's a PvP zone: player VERSUS player, where part of the excitement is to kill mobs fast enough before being detected by gankers. Not for everyone. I almost never visit IC. A depressing grey zone. But maybe fun for some to pop detect potions in an almost unpopulated zone to counter gankers.