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• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – January 13, 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
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Toxicity Data for Vote Kicking in Vet Content
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the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »If the OP was getting kicked because his or her character wasn't up to snuff then it wouldn't always happen at the last boss.
[snip]
[edited for baiting]
Unless they can just barely manage the regular Vet bosses. Then at the end, the rest of the group is like "Do we wanna do Hard Mode for the key?"
*looks at the weakest link*
*initiates Vote to Kick*
I can't say that's exactly what's happening here, but its certainly what I think of with a string of kicking at the last boss from multiple random groups.
While I think you might be right, those groups are probably only hurting themselves by waiting until the last boss to kick. They would be better off kicking sooner so they either don't have to wait as long for a replacement (by 3-manning lesser bosses), or so they can judge the replacement quality before getting to the final boss if they do wait.0 -
JanTanhide✭✭✭✭✭
✭ThePianist wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »ThePianist wrote: »We need to see which classes or play styles get vote kicked the most in Vet Dungeons. Then we can decide what action to take, to make those classes viable in Vet content. Magsorc shouldn’t be the cream of the crop for pve and pvp.
I know this is an MMO but let’s be reasonable for a second. Since the “RONA” started, I’ve been working full time. I’m not one of these afraid-of-the-sun pve elitists.
Vet content should be viable in pugs without the toxicity, and without the abuse of the vote kicking option.
I have a max stamnecro, magblade and stamblade and I’m always getting vote kicked for no reason. This isn’t about a dps issue, it’s about getting kicked on the last boss. This is the abuse that I’m talking about. Some people think it’s funny to kick a random pug on the last boss.
What can we do about this? Vet content is already impossible for most stamina players. It must be really toxic for new players I guess.
No body vote to kick someone because they don't like a specific class. People vote to kick when you don't do enough dps to kill bosses, when you don't know mechaincs or when run ahead of the group and just pull every mobs around and you are not even a tank.
I have been in many groups that could not kill the second boss of fungul grotto because they keep dying from the shadow mechanic. I have seen people bypass mobs in different dungeons to skip because they don't loke to waste time kill mobs, everyone ends up dying before the reach the boss. You have new players in group and you want to explain mechanivs to them, just for an entilted brat to agro bosses over and over and over then complain that other don't kbow mechanics and everyone is trash.
My personal experience will always contradict another person’s personal experience with vet pugs.
I’ve proposed the idea to ZOS, to look at dungeon logs and see which classes and play styles are getting kicked the most. If there’s 20,000 Banished cells 2 dungeon logs and 7,000 instances of someone getting kicked in that 20,000. It can’t be the same “bad” player getting kicked 7,000 times. And it cannot be 7,000 dps getting kicked, there’s some tanks not running taunt or healers not running purge in there also.
That Fungal boss with the debuff, requires the healer to purge. It’s not a case of “you need 100k dps”.
That’s the dna and receipts I want to look at. From there on, we can determine which classes needs buffs for pve.
What’s wrong with making vet content viable for pug players? At least once a day I’m helping a low cp player do vet content. I actually just recently took a screenshot of me doing Vet ROM with a couple of low 300’s. It took longer than I expected but I was proud of helping them and not be part of the ESO-Turning-into-WoW-Pve-toxicity.
If you want your own personal data of all the players in a group dungeon run then use ESO Logs and have at it. It will show you every detail of each player continuously through the entire dungeon.
I see you are not providing any information about your dungeon runs except that you get kicked and it must be due to your character class. If you are kicked over and over from random groups then the fault lies with you. Are you a toxic player? Do you run ahead of the Tank and aggro everything? Are you one of those players that uses minimal skills to do damage and shields all the time? I call that last one "Light attack, light attack, Shield" rotation. I've seen it quite a few times in PUG runs.
Bottom line is you are with holding information about your play style which others find distasteful in my opinion.
Six years in this game and not once have I been kicked from a PUG. I've played all three roles in many Vet dungeons and many Vet DLC dungeon runs. Not one kick. I wonder why?3 -
JanTanhide✭✭✭✭✭
✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »ThePianist wrote: »We need to see which classes or play styles get vote kicked the most in Vet Dungeons. Then we can decide what action to take, to make those classes viable in Vet content. Magsorc shouldn’t be the cream of the crop for pve and pvp.
I know this is an MMO but let’s be reasonable for a second. Since the “RONA” started, I’ve been working full time. I’m not one of these afraid-of-the-sun pve elitists.
Vet content should be viable in pugs without the toxicity, and without the abuse of the vote kicking option.
I have a max stamnecro, magblade and stamblade and I’m always getting vote kicked for no reason. This isn’t about a dps issue, it’s about getting kicked on the last boss. This is the abuse that I’m talking about. Some people think it’s funny to kick a random pug on the last boss.
What can we do about this? Vet content is already impossible for most stamina players. It must be really toxic for new players I guess.
There are definitely troll groups out there who do this - they wait until the last boss then kick you just to be a ____. I've even had them kick me after the last boss was dead and the dungeon was over just to be annoying. It's also why I think friends who queue up together should only count as one vote toward kicking someone. Currently it's too easy for a group of friends to abuse the kick function and torment the one pug player in the group with the way it is now.
The best you can do is just report them and hope ZoS does something about it.
Groups who kick after last boss usually do random dungeons, they kick you so they can queue for the next dungeon. I have been in some groups, I personaly asl people to leave, but some can't even read english, so we end up kicking these guys.
I didn't know this.
Is this for the high-level daily random reward, or the lesser repeater one?
And why would a kick be necessary?
Because usually the 4th player who is not part of the friend/guild group isn't paying attention to Group Chat. Sometimes the Group leader is NOT part of the 3 person friend group because it is randomly assigned by the game so it could be the 4th player/non friend of the other three and they asked in Chat if he/she wanted to do another dungeon and got no response so they vote kick that person from the group.
I have seen this after the last boss in random pugs but usually everyone leaves group and reforms the original band of three people and queue up again.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »ThePianist wrote: »We need to see which classes or play styles get vote kicked the most in Vet Dungeons. Then we can decide what action to take, to make those classes viable in Vet content. Magsorc shouldn’t be the cream of the crop for pve and pvp.
I know this is an MMO but let’s be reasonable for a second. Since the “RONA” started, I’ve been working full time. I’m not one of these afraid-of-the-sun pve elitists.
Vet content should be viable in pugs without the toxicity, and without the abuse of the vote kicking option.
I have a max stamnecro, magblade and stamblade and I’m always getting vote kicked for no reason. This isn’t about a dps issue, it’s about getting kicked on the last boss. This is the abuse that I’m talking about. Some people think it’s funny to kick a random pug on the last boss.
What can we do about this? Vet content is already impossible for most stamina players. It must be really toxic for new players I guess.
There are definitely troll groups out there who do this - they wait until the last boss then kick you just to be a ____. I've even had them kick me after the last boss was dead and the dungeon was over just to be annoying. It's also why I think friends who queue up together should only count as one vote toward kicking someone. Currently it's too easy for a group of friends to abuse the kick function and torment the one pug player in the group with the way it is now.
The best you can do is just report them and hope ZoS does something about it.
Groups who kick after last boss usually do random dungeons, they kick you so they can queue for the next dungeon. I have been in some groups, I personaly asl people to leave, but some can't even read english, so we end up kicking these guys.
I didn't know this.
Is this for the high-level daily random reward, or the lesser repeater one?
And why would a kick be necessary?
A kick might be necessary if
1) They don't leave the group on their own, even after being asked (sometimes randoms that join a group of 3 will just hang around in group forever or go AFK)
2) Maybe they were a "nice" group and the 4th had low dps, poor heals, but they did the dungeon with them to completion, but don't want them to come on other subsequent runs because maybe they're doing pledges and it's a harder dungeon/etc...
Neither of these are "toxic" in any way shape or form...
If you get kicked shortly AFTER completing the dungeon, it's most likely just a group of 3 who want to move on to other things as quickly as possible. With the increased timeout of the dungeon you have, you still would have plenty of time to complete the quest/etc in there.
I agree that neither are toxic. Heck, I kick AFK players and while those I run with can carry a low DPS player, I realize many can not. Ofc, if they kick a player before even starting then that is a different story.
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furiouslog✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ThePianist wrote: »
This is why we need to see a spreadsheet data. Game server data, dungeon logs, ect...
There were some cases where I just joined a dungeon and before I can even type “L4...” *kicked*, and this was in a normal daily dungeon.
It’s easy to theory craft and imagine things. But there’s unresolved issues that has been going on in the game for years. Vote Kicking is one of them, and people getting crown scammed is another.
I’m pretty sure ZOS understands this from a business perspective and potential loss of new assets. If I could get a refund on the vet dungeons and contents I can’t do, then I’d get a refund lol.
These data are readily available on esologs - you can see which classes have cleared content in vet dungeons, what their stats were, etc. Examples:
https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/10#metric=playerscore&partition=5&class=DPS&boss=-1
https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/10#metric=playerscore&partition=5&class=Tanks&boss=-1
https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/10#metric=playerscore&partition=5&class=Healers&boss=-1
Successful clears are a much better indicator of class performance than kicks, which are subject to bias due to personality issues, group motivation, and individual performance. If you are a poorly performing player and got kicked for that, it does not mean your entire class is flawed, it means you need more practice. If your real concern is class viability, then you'd review these data for gaps, considering also that some classes are designed to fit certain roles due to class identity. The tank dungeon leaderboards are full of DKs, which should not be a surprise, probably due to cheap chains. But if you go to Sunspire and look at tanks, there is a more diverse class representation. All classes are viable in all roles in the game.
Go ahead and pour through that stuff. Your answers regarding class viability are already there, you just need to analyze the data. However, it's not going to tell you why you are getting kicked. That's just people. Re-engineering classes because you got unfairly kicked a few times is not the solution to your problem.6 -
Gnatrak✭✭✭ThePianist wrote: »My personal experience will always contradict another person’s personal experience with vet pugs.
I’ve proposed the idea to ZOS, to look at dungeon logs and see which classes and play styles are getting kicked the most. If there’s 20,000 Banished cells 2 dungeon logs and 7,000 instances of someone getting kicked in that 20,000. It can’t be the same “bad” player getting kicked 7,000 times. And it cannot be 7,000 dps getting kicked, there’s some tanks not running taunt or healers not running purge in there also.
That Fungal boss with the debuff, requires the healer to purge. It’s not a case of “you need 100k dps”.
Like @universal_wrath said not all Tanks run a taunt and not all Healers use purge but purge isn't always necessary. Regardless, vote to kick isn't limited to just DDs. The same rules apply to everyone - if someone isnt pulling their weight then odds are they'll be kicked. I see the problem though, it seems like you don't fully understand how the mechanics work if you really think Purge is necessary. Templars typically will have a Purify Synergy on the ground that you can use - it requires you to actually pick it up though, overall Healers don't need to use purge in Banished Cells II, just go to the corresponding mechanic (rune on the ground) to cleanse the debuff after you get bubbled and speaking of getting bubbled, if the Tank gets bubbled he / she will lose taunt on all the Daedroths and will have to grab aggro again so if that happens it doesn't mean they're not running a taunt - also a good healer will have no problem healing through the mess until the Tank regains aggro, the longer it takes DPS to kill the boss the more Dagroths will spawn and if the Feasts are not being killed before they reach the boss they will heal him. So if you're overrun with 10 Daedroths and the boss still isn't dead then DPS is typically the problem and that's usually when someone gets kicked or leaves the group.
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heaven13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »ThePianist wrote: »We need to see which classes or play styles get vote kicked the most in Vet Dungeons. Then we can decide what action to take, to make those classes viable in Vet content. Magsorc shouldn’t be the cream of the crop for pve and pvp.
I know this is an MMO but let’s be reasonable for a second. Since the “RONA” started, I’ve been working full time. I’m not one of these afraid-of-the-sun pve elitists.
Vet content should be viable in pugs without the toxicity, and without the abuse of the vote kicking option.
I have a max stamnecro, magblade and stamblade and I’m always getting vote kicked for no reason. This isn’t about a dps issue, it’s about getting kicked on the last boss. This is the abuse that I’m talking about. Some people think it’s funny to kick a random pug on the last boss.
What can we do about this? Vet content is already impossible for most stamina players. It must be really toxic for new players I guess.
There are definitely troll groups out there who do this - they wait until the last boss then kick you just to be a ____. I've even had them kick me after the last boss was dead and the dungeon was over just to be annoying. It's also why I think friends who queue up together should only count as one vote toward kicking someone. Currently it's too easy for a group of friends to abuse the kick function and torment the one pug player in the group with the way it is now.
The best you can do is just report them and hope ZoS does something about it.
Groups who kick after last boss usually do random dungeons, they kick you so they can queue for the next dungeon. I have been in some groups, I personaly asl people to leave, but some can't even read english, so we end up kicking these guys.
I didn't know this.
Is this for the high-level daily random reward, or the lesser repeater one?
And why would a kick be necessary?
It doesn't have to be for any reward. Sometimes a group of 3 is just doing things together because they enjoy doing those things. Like dungeons. If they had a good time with you or found you to be a very good player they may ask you to come along for more. If they didn't feel that way, they want you out of the group so they can queue again. I understand why a wordless kick is common there because I'd find asking someone to leave the group equally awkward, and personally believe that kicking someone after the end of a dungeon is very clearly in no way a real kick. My own tendency though is to leave the group and then re-group with my friends, but that's really just me being awkward and trying to avoid the slight weirdness of kicking the extra dude.
My group does the drop group and reform too, rather than ask the random to leave or kick. We tell them thank you, wish them luck, then continue along on our business.PC/NAMountain God | Leave No Bone Unbroken | Apex Predator | Pure Lunacy | Depths Defier | No Rest for the Wicked | In Defiance of DeathMeet my characters :
Defanged the Devourer | Nature's Wrath | Relentless Raider | True Genius | Bane of Thorns | Subterranean Smasher | Ardent Bibliophile
vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vDSA | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+2 | vBRP | vSS HM | vKA | vRGIT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL THE SAME NOW, THANKS ZOS0 -
BazOfWar✭✭✭✭Stick to music or play solo like I do.
^This
It isn't ideal but its also what I do, I have had so many bad experiences in the past with regards to dungeons/groups in other mmos too.
In eso I tend to find grouping in general pve and public dungeons is far more relaxed and is where I have met a lot of great people but thats where the grouping ends for me.
If I want to run a dungeon,⁸ I solo it and if its too difficult or has certain mechanics that prevent me from soloing then I just don't do that particular dungeon. There is too much toxicity where dungeons are concerned.0 -
Kingslayer513✭✭✭✭✭
✭ThePianist wrote: »Magsorcs are the most preferred dps in any content, I won’t deny that.
Literally every other class, including wardens, are valued higher than magsorc dps in the current meta. What year do you think we're in???3 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
That often happens is that group leader dissolve group at end. That tend to be if they do randoms.universal_wrath wrote: »ThePianist wrote: »We need to see which classes or play styles get vote kicked the most in Vet Dungeons. Then we can decide what action to take, to make those classes viable in Vet content. Magsorc shouldn’t be the cream of the crop for pve and pvp.
I know this is an MMO but let’s be reasonable for a second. Since the “RONA” started, I’ve been working full time. I’m not one of these afraid-of-the-sun pve elitists.
Vet content should be viable in pugs without the toxicity, and without the abuse of the vote kicking option.
I have a max stamnecro, magblade and stamblade and I’m always getting vote kicked for no reason. This isn’t about a dps issue, it’s about getting kicked on the last boss. This is the abuse that I’m talking about. Some people think it’s funny to kick a random pug on the last boss.
What can we do about this? Vet content is already impossible for most stamina players. It must be really toxic for new players I guess.
There are definitely troll groups out there who do this - they wait until the last boss then kick you just to be a ____. I've even had them kick me after the last boss was dead and the dungeon was over just to be annoying. It's also why I think friends who queue up together should only count as one vote toward kicking someone. Currently it's too easy for a group of friends to abuse the kick function and torment the one pug player in the group with the way it is now.
The best you can do is just report them and hope ZoS does something about it.
Groups who kick after last boss usually do random dungeons, they kick you so they can queue for the next dungeon. I have been in some groups, I personaly asl people to leave, but some can't even read english, so we end up kicking these guys.
Yes its stupid if you do the quest.
For pledge its standard to start with the easiest dungeon and scale up. Now you know the group and can figure out how to do the DLC.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Radiance✭✭✭✭✭
✭ThePianist wrote: »I know this is an MMO but let’s be reasonable for a second. Since the “RONA” started, I’ve been working full time. I’m not one of these afraid-of-the-sun pve elitists.
Hey, I'm not afraid of the Sun, I'm just allergic to it...
People get kicked for not fulfilling their roles and toxicity... I think as long as you communicate, ask questions when you need to and are Open to direction and suggestions to better your ability, you will be fine.1 -
Katheriah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ThePianist wrote: »Vet content is already impossible for most stamina players.
I think I know why you get kicked.15 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Yes, most likely leader simply disbanded group, now if you are doing the quest this can be an problem, if so tell them at start and before last boss.ThePianist wrote: »We need to see which classes or play styles get vote kicked the most in Vet Dungeons. Then we can decide what action to take, to make those classes viable in Vet content. Magsorc shouldn’t be the cream of the crop for pve and pvp.
I know this is an MMO but let’s be reasonable for a second. Since the “RONA” started, I’ve been working full time. I’m not one of these afraid-of-the-sun pve elitists.
Vet content should be viable in pugs without the toxicity, and without the abuse of the vote kicking option.
I have a max stamnecro, magblade and stamblade and I’m always getting vote kicked for no reason. This isn’t about a dps issue, it’s about getting kicked on the last boss. This is the abuse that I’m talking about. Some people think it’s funny to kick a random pug on the last boss.
What can we do about this? Vet content is already impossible for most stamina players. It must be really toxic for new players I guess.
There are definitely troll groups out there who do this - they wait until the last boss then kick you just to be a ____. I've even had them kick me after the last boss was dead and the dungeon was over just to be annoying. It's also why I think friends who queue up together should only count as one vote toward kicking someone. Currently it's too easy for a group of friends to abuse the kick function and torment the one pug player in the group with the way it is now.
The best you can do is just report them and hope ZoS does something about it.
If you were kicked after the last boss was dead, no one was trolling you or trying to annoy you. They were a group of three pugging together and wanted to queue for their next dungeon without you.
This is why I'm so dubious about people claiming they're being intentionally griefed in some way -- people project malicious intent onto the most innocuous behaviors.
Or they wanted to do another dungeon and did not want you, it does not say you was bad it could just be that an friend wanted to do the next dungeon and they know he is good.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭First, all classes are viable for vet content. Secondly, what does people kicking others for fun have to do with classes being viable or not?BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA2 -
vamp_emily✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If you are constantly getting kicked from vet content then there is an issue. It could be your ego or skill level that is getting you kicked all the time.
I've played through many Vet dungeons and only once I can remember in 4 years did someone try to kick me. Lucky for me one of the group players were part of my guild and clicked 'no'. However, I did leave the group willingly because I didn't have the skills to complete the content.
Best solution is just start a group with people with similar interests.
If you want a friend, get a dog.
AW Rank: Grand Warlord 1 ( level 49)3 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ThePianist wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »ThePianist wrote: »We need to see which classes or play styles get vote kicked the most in Vet Dungeons. Then we can decide what action to take, to make those classes viable in Vet content. Magsorc shouldn’t be the cream of the crop for pve and pvp.
I know this is an MMO but let’s be reasonable for a second. Since the “RONA” started, I’ve been working full time. I’m not one of these afraid-of-the-sun pve elitists.
Vet content should be viable in pugs without the toxicity, and without the abuse of the vote kicking option.
I have a max stamnecro, magblade and stamblade and I’m always getting vote kicked for no reason. This isn’t about a dps issue, it’s about getting kicked on the last boss. This is the abuse that I’m talking about. Some people think it’s funny to kick a random pug on the last boss.
What can we do about this? Vet content is already impossible for most stamina players. It must be really toxic for new players I guess.
No body vote to kick someone because they don't like a specific class. People vote to kick when you don't do enough dps to kill bosses, when you don't know mechaincs or when run ahead of the group and just pull every mobs around and you are not even a tank.
I have been in many groups that could not kill the second boss of fungul grotto because they keep dying from the shadow mechanic. I have seen people bypass mobs in different dungeons to skip because they don't loke to waste time kill mobs, everyone ends up dying before the reach the boss. You have new players in group and you want to explain mechanivs to them, just for an entilted brat to agro bosses over and over and over then complain that other don't kbow mechanics and everyone is trash.
My personal experience will always contradict another person’s personal experience with vet pugs.
I’ve proposed the idea to ZOS, to look at dungeon logs and see which classes and play styles are getting kicked the most. If there’s 20,000 Banished cells 2 dungeon logs and 7,000 instances of someone getting kicked in that 20,000. It can’t be the same “bad” player getting kicked 7,000 times. And it cannot be 7,000 dps getting kicked, there’s some tanks not running taunt or healers not running purge in there also.
That Fungal boss with the debuff, requires the healer to purge. It’s not a case of “you need 100k dps”.
That’s the dna and receipts I want to look at. From there on, we can determine which classes needs buffs for pve.
What’s wrong with making vet content viable for pug players? At least once a day I’m helping a low cp player do vet content. I actually just recently took a screenshot of me doing Vet ROM with a couple of low 300’s. It took longer than I expected but I was proud of helping them and not be part of the ESO-Turning-into-WoW-Pve-toxicity.
You can start by collecting your own data, since you are the one having an issue.
Create a spreadsheet that lists:
Character class
Dungeon (and if it was vet or normal)
Did you get kicked? If so, at what point?
If you didn't get kicked, how long did it take the group to clear the dungeons (approximately)
Were there any wipes, if so, approximately how many.
You'll find your pattern, I'm sure.The Moot Councillor3 -
svendf✭✭✭✭Can´t be sure it´s the case here. It happens, that they have a friend waiting - a friend in need of a monster set not eager to run the dungeon and as so use op as a travel mate to last boss and kiick him and then inv their friend.0
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coletas✭✭✭✭i never been kicked even when playing a stamblade as a tank or healer XD now i know to play ok and i wouldnt vote Kick anyone for any of those stupid reasons. Even with worst randoms is more fun, more challenge. whats the point on win a vet with 4 guys that each one would clear It even fast If It werent there some multiplayer mechanics?0
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NocturnalSonata✭✭✭ThePianist wrote: »We need to see which classes or play styles get vote kicked the most in Vet Dungeons. Then we can decide what action to take, to make those classes viable in Vet content. Magsorc shouldn’t be the cream of the crop for pve and pvp.
I know this is an MMO but let’s be reasonable for a second. Since the “RONA” started, I’ve been working full time. I’m not one of these afraid-of-the-sun pve elitists.
Vet content should be viable in pugs without the toxicity, and without the abuse of the vote kicking option.
I have a max stamnecro, magblade and stamblade and I’m always getting vote kicked for no reason. This isn’t about a dps issue, it’s about getting kicked on the last boss. This is the abuse that I’m talking about. Some people think it’s funny to kick a random pug on the last boss.
What can we do about this? Vet content is already impossible for most stamina players. It must be really toxic for new players I guess.
1 - You are getting kicked for a reason
2 - if you are getting kicked due to friends wanting their buddy to get the clear, shame on them. But i suspect this is rare.
3 - all classes are completely viable in all VET content. In fact one of the easiest builds is a stamplar.
4 - nobody is gonna kick you because of your class in a vet dungeon, because it is irrelevent. what matters is your performance / synergy within the group.
5 - making a spreadsheet is pointless because of 1-4, it will tell you absolutely nothing, except that either you are under-performing or the groups you have run into are idiots.
6 - the only action - potentially - is to be taken against those that kick to refill for a friend. otherwise, thats it, nothing to see here.Edited by NocturnalSonata on August 13, 2020 4:54PM3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »If the OP was getting kicked because his or her character wasn't up to snuff then it wouldn't always happen at the last boss.
[snip]
[edited for baiting]
Unless they can just barely manage the regular Vet bosses. Then at the end, the rest of the group is like "Do we wanna do Hard Mode for the key?"
*looks at the weakest link*
*initiates Vote to Kick*
I can't say that's exactly what's happening here, but its certainly what I think of with a string of kicking at the last boss from multiple random groups.
While I think you might be right, those groups are probably only hurting themselves by waiting until the last boss to kick. They would be better off kicking sooner so they either don't have to wait as long for a replacement (by 3-manning lesser bosses), or so they can judge the replacement quality before getting to the final boss if they do wait.
That's one of several reasons I'm having a hard time buying that theory. If a group was planning on doing hard mode and believes there is a member in the group that's not up for it - why would they string that person along until the very end all the while knowing they were going to kick them? It just sounds like trolling to me.
Maybe if they actually at least attempted hard mode first and failed - then voted to kick - I could believe that was the reason.
Edited by Jeremy on August 13, 2020 5:04PM0 -
kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭ThePianist wrote: »We need to see which classes or play styles get vote kicked the most in Vet Dungeons. Then we can decide what action to take, to make those classes viable in Vet content. Magsorc shouldn’t be the cream of the crop for pve and pvp.
I know this is an MMO but let’s be reasonable for a second. Since the “RONA” started, I’ve been working full time. I’m not one of these afraid-of-the-sun pve elitists.
Vet content should be viable in pugs without the toxicity, and without the abuse of the vote kicking option.
I have a max stamnecro, magblade and stamblade and I’m always getting vote kicked for no reason. This isn’t about a dps issue, it’s about getting kicked on the last boss. This is the abuse that I’m talking about. Some people think it’s funny to kick a random pug on the last boss.
What can we do about this? Vet content is already impossible for most stamina players. It must be really toxic for new players I guess.
People should have to fill out a comment box, or a reason drop down when voting to kick people. That would provide ZOS with feedback so they can understand the behavior of the community better.PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭kathandira wrote: »ThePianist wrote: »We need to see which classes or play styles get vote kicked the most in Vet Dungeons. Then we can decide what action to take, to make those classes viable in Vet content. Magsorc shouldn’t be the cream of the crop for pve and pvp.
I know this is an MMO but let’s be reasonable for a second. Since the “RONA” started, I’ve been working full time. I’m not one of these afraid-of-the-sun pve elitists.
Vet content should be viable in pugs without the toxicity, and without the abuse of the vote kicking option.
I have a max stamnecro, magblade and stamblade and I’m always getting vote kicked for no reason. This isn’t about a dps issue, it’s about getting kicked on the last boss. This is the abuse that I’m talking about. Some people think it’s funny to kick a random pug on the last boss.
What can we do about this? Vet content is already impossible for most stamina players. It must be really toxic for new players I guess.
People should have to fill out a comment box, or a reason drop down when voting to kick people. That would provide ZOS with feedback so they can understand the behavior of the community better.
This is a simple but great idea.
If players actually had to give a reason for kicking others they might would think twice before doing it. It would also give ZoS something to work with when investigating reports of griefing to find out if they were legitimate or not.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »If the OP was getting kicked because his or her character wasn't up to snuff then it wouldn't always happen at the last boss.
[snip]
[edited for baiting]
Unless they can just barely manage the regular Vet bosses. Then at the end, the rest of the group is like "Do we wanna do Hard Mode for the key?"
*looks at the weakest link*
*initiates Vote to Kick*
I can't say that's exactly what's happening here, but its certainly what I think of with a string of kicking at the last boss from multiple random groups.
While I think you might be right, those groups are probably only hurting themselves by waiting until the last boss to kick. They would be better off kicking sooner so they either don't have to wait as long for a replacement (by 3-manning lesser bosses), or so they can judge the replacement quality before getting to the final boss if they do wait.
That's one of several reasons I'm having a hard time buying that theory. If a group was planning on doing hard mode and believes there is a member in the group that's not up for it - why would they string that person along until the very end all the while knowing they were going to kick them? It just sounds like trolling to me.
Maybe if they actually at least attempted hard mode first and failed - then voted to kick - I could believe that was the reason.
Whereas I'm thinking its not all that common for groups to pull in a friend/carry at the last boss for the helm. It happens, but OP seems to have it happening so often that I'd expect other players to be complaining about a rash of trolling groups kicking them at the last boss. Unless the OP is really, truly that unlucky as to get these multiple trolling groups over and over.
Its also possible that there's some missing missing reason why so many groups choose to troll the OP by stringing them along until the last boss. The OP certainly thinks there's a problem enough to warrant their classes getting buffs (but definitely not cause to improve their own player ability, nope!)1 -
XxCaLxX✭✭✭✭✭So if I’m reading right you’re suggesting that to see which classes need buffs ZoS should determine that by which class is kicked from groups the most? I hate to burst your bubble but that would most likely be sorcs. Most ppl can do any content with any class being mag or Stam. Mag is better if in a weak group sure but that’s not anyone’s fault other than who else is in group. ZoS isn’t going to buff a hybrid dunmer DK using a ice staff and 2h maul or whatever just because a few ppl can’t be productive with it. People in pugs arent going to remove someone that is helping the group. Actually getting queued for anything takes long enough so if you’re getting kicked constantly might wanna collect some personal data and go from there.Edited by XxCaLxX on August 13, 2020 5:21PM1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »If the OP was getting kicked because his or her character wasn't up to snuff then it wouldn't always happen at the last boss.
[snip]
[edited for baiting]
Unless they can just barely manage the regular Vet bosses. Then at the end, the rest of the group is like "Do we wanna do Hard Mode for the key?"
*looks at the weakest link*
*initiates Vote to Kick*
I can't say that's exactly what's happening here, but its certainly what I think of with a string of kicking at the last boss from multiple random groups.
While I think you might be right, those groups are probably only hurting themselves by waiting until the last boss to kick. They would be better off kicking sooner so they either don't have to wait as long for a replacement (by 3-manning lesser bosses), or so they can judge the replacement quality before getting to the final boss if they do wait.
That's one of several reasons I'm having a hard time buying that theory. If a group was planning on doing hard mode and believes there is a member in the group that's not up for it - why would they string that person along until the very end all the while knowing they were going to kick them? It just sounds like trolling to me.
Maybe if they actually at least attempted hard mode first and failed - then voted to kick - I could believe that was the reason.
Whereas I'm thinking its not all that common for groups to pull in a friend/carry at the last boss for the helm. It happens, but OP seems to have it happening so often that I'd expect other players to be complaining about a rash of trolling groups kicking them at the last boss. Unless the OP is really, truly that unlucky as to get these multiple trolling groups over and over.
Its also possible that there's some missing missing reason why so many groups choose to troll the OP by stringing them along until the last boss. The OP certainly thinks there's a problem enough to warrant their classes getting buffs (but definitely not cause to improve their own player ability, nope!)
There used to be this one Asian Guild I encountered frequently who loved to do this sort of thing. Their members would queue up in 3's then torment the pug by kicking them at the very end. One time I got put in their groups nearly a half dozen times over a period of just a few days. I haven't seen them around in a while (hopefully they all got banned).
So I get what you're saying, and it probably is rare. But I can't say it's outside the realm of possibility since I myself have had unlucky bouts of landing into these troll groups. So they are definitely out there.
It just seems to me if they were truly kicking the player at the end because they couldn't complete hard mode then they would have at least attempted the hard mode first. But if they are just stringing the player along until the very end then just booting him or her at the end that's got to be trolling in my mind. Actually I better not say the word trolling anymore, since that seems to be a dirty word now. Do you know what is an acceptable word to describe players who are removing others from a group just to be mean? Empathy-challenged maybe? I dunno..Edited by Jeremy on August 13, 2020 6:05PM0 -
Seminolegirl1992✭✭✭✭✭ThePianist wrote: »“ Magsorcs are the most preferred dps in any content, I won’t deny that.
They're definitely not. As a magsorc main, they're...mostly unheard of in endgame. It's magcros, magblades, magdks. There are no classes that are being universally kicked in pve content. Trust me. This is what is most likely:
1) Trolls
2) Your health is low
3) Your level/cp is low?
4) Low dps
5) Pulling mobs or running ahead of tank
6) Trolls
7) Trolls?
I'm not saying this to be mean or elitist. But you're not gonna get kicked in a pug because of your class. I've been kicked from groups because I lacked knowledge of the mechanics, died too frequently, and my dps was low. Those are the only reasons. They never saw me and were like, "Ooh! A magsorc, kick it!!"@Seminolegirl1992 PC/NA CP 2600+ PVE, PVP, RP, Housing: Tel Galen, Fair Winds, Moon Sugar, Grand Psijic, Forsaken, HOTLC, Bastion, Ravenhurst, Gardner, Alinor, Hakkvild's, Gorinir, Kragenhome, Hundings, & more- feel free to come see!Misery's Master | Unstoppable | Mindmender | Swashbuckler Supreme | Planesbreaker | Dawnbringer | Godslayer | Gryphon Heart | Immortal Redeemer | Tick Tock Tormentor | Dro-m'athra Destroyer | Former Empress0 -
CaffeinatedMayhem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Thannazzar wrote: »
OK, not sure if this is a wider issue but it's never happened to me. I've rarely seen anyone kicked from a vet pug but when it's happened it's usually either;
1. They are a fake tank.
2. They have less than 20k health, less than 15 k resists and have been up and down like a yoyo for most of the dungeon.
3. They run ahead of the tank repeatedly pulling.
4. The are spamming "I want x gear in chat" or using a loot reveal mod and whispering players to demand gear before the player has had a chance to view their own drops.
You forgot 5: Has been spewing hate/toxicity in chat, blaming heals or tank for their own issues and generally been a *** to everyone.
This is usually why I kick people. And fake tanks/heals if it's a vet that requires real tank/heals.5
This discussion has been closed.