Toxicity Data for Vote Kicking in Vet Content

ThePianist

Aznarb wrote: »

I never get kick of a pug group.
That said their is people who insult and leave too !
In some vDLC, I can understand if someone have a very very low dps or is not doing his job to get kick, especially if the team want the HM. But they should try with 1st and explain to him. Then if he don't answer and keep being bad, yes, kick. In a pug group all is expected to do is role and know the DG.
Their is guild for discovery, don't do that in pug, it's often not a good experience for you and the group.

I've see one tank like this Yesterday in CoH1, he leaved probably cuz DPS was rushing. I was the healer, I just slotted and agro and we did it in HM easy. Dunno why people get mad in easy DG.

Yesterday again, some guild-mate of my casual guild asked me if I can help them for last boss of Fang's lair cuz the healer said they was low dps and tank die to much. I go with them, Tank never die once, he was just lacking of ressource cuz other healer wasn't doing this job, and we clean it easy, no need high dps for this one who is full mechanic based lul.

Some people are just bad and stupid.”

Well thanks for helping people out. That’s what I’m all about, I’ve never quit on low cp pugs. This one of the main reasons I started this discussion. There’s no reason to kick low cp pugs even if they have lvl 1 gear on for some reason. If maxed vets can’t pull their way, they might as well get a job irl lol.

redspecter23

"Well thanks for helping people out. That’s what I’m all about, I’ve never quit on low cp pugs. This one of the main reasons I started this discussion. There’s no reason to kick low cp pugs even if they have lvl 1 gear on for some reason. If maxed vets can’t pull their way, they might as well get a job irl lol."

I really hope you're not suggesting that anyone should carry someone in a vet DLC dungeon when that person is wearing level 1 gear. That is a ridiculous request of anyone and it would be insulting for someone to even ask that. I'd fully expect that they be wearing level appropriate gear at minimum if they are in a vet DLC dungeon. That would be utter disrespect to the other 3 members to show up that unprepared then expect to be carried.

mairwen85

redspecter23 wrote: »

"Well thanks for helping people out. That’s what I’m all about, I’ve never quit on low cp pugs. This one of the main reasons I started this discussion. There’s no reason to kick low cp pugs even if they have lvl 1 gear on for some reason. If maxed vets can’t pull their way, they might as well get a job irl lol."

I really hope you're not suggesting that anyone should carry someone in a vet DLC dungeon when that person is wearing level 1 gear. That is a ridiculous request of anyone and it would be insulting for someone to even ask that. I'd fully expect that they be wearing level appropriate gear at minimum if they are in a vet DLC dungeon. That would be utter disrespect to the other 3 members to show up that unprepared then expect to be carried.

I once landed in a fang lair pug where the other 3 people were naked 👀 It was hysterical. Much can never be unseen.

ThePianist

Aznarb wrote: »

ThePianist wrote: »

“ To apply it to your situation, ZOS may notice an abnormal amount of a certain class (make of car) being kicked. What they should then do is examine the reasons for that to see if there is something that even needs to be fixed (recalled). You want to skip over that part. You want to just say that a greater number of class X is being kicked so therefore they need buffs to keep from being kicked. You're taking data, drawing your own conclusions from that data and applying a fix to the faulty conclusion you drew.”

Are you sweating at the notion of Nightblades getting buffed? LOL.

Dungeon data and logs will show everything. I did not say NB’s only, I also said other play styles like bow only.

So if the data does show that certain classes like NB’s or Stamdens as dps, are under performing, then they need a buff or rework to their skills for pve content.

What’s wrong with buffing all stam classes to be viable dps in vet pug content? That is the conclusion I am drawing and we need to see the logs for it.

If I was a salesman at ZOS, I’d make sure vet content hits all market corners. Not just cater to 1 type of group people, that’s not going to earn me money.

All class are good enough for vetDLC content lol.
You don't need 90k to clear content, afaik most people who did these don't even do high DPS.
Doesn't matter if a class can "potentially" hit 100k on good hand, for most player it not gonna change anything because they don't have the level to do that.
You really think a class is gonna carry you ? Nop, time to learn.

Time to learn what exactly? Did you u read what I said? I’ve helped low cp pugs clear vet content and I’ve done every single vet content. I’m aware of the Kick option abuse. I’ve been kicked myself for no reason at all, sometimes as soon as I port into a dungeon.

The other day, I got kicked at vet bloodforge before the first boss. It was my daily. I asked them why? They said NB’s suck at dps then I clicked my Earthgore helm in the chat telling them I’ve already done this vet. This is the underlying abuse that I’m talking about.

Explain how one pug can get good at not getting kicked for no reason.

sudaki_eso

ThePianist wrote: »

I have a max stamnecro, magblade and stamblade and I’m always getting vote kicked for no reason. This isn’t about a dps issue, it’s about getting kicked on the last boss. This is the abuse that I’m talking about. Some people think it’s funny to kick a random pug on the last boss.

You sure its not something you do or not do? In over 3 years this never happend to me and i was never in a group where ppl tried to kick someone before the last boss - and it doesnt matter what class i am playing...
Not saying that it doesnt happen but you make it sound like its a usual thing in this game - but let me guess, you play on the pc right?

p00tx

You do know that people can see how much of the damage you're doing, and might be kicking you if you're not pulling your weight, right? Also, we're in a mag meta right now. In a dungeon that requires strong cleave damage, the single-target nature of a Stamblade is going to be a detriment. What do you have equipped? Did you have on 2H/bow? DW/Bow? If you're in there in a goofy RP set-up, they might kick just based on that. I'm not going to automatically assume that was the case for you, but it's the only reason I can think of that someone might kick someone based on their class. It generally doesn't matter in the slightest. Also, Magsorc is far from the most preferred class. I'd take a Necro/Magplar/Magden comp any day over a bunch of goofy petsorcs in a dungeon.

Sometimes people really are just jerks. It happens. But there are tons of reasons someone could be kicked, and not all of them have even the slightest thing to do with you.

Also, the assumption that all sweaty, endgame PvEers are weird, unemployed, basement-dwelling troglodytes is kind of a ridiculous and outdated trope. It's 2020 bro. We have careers and families and social lives. We just happen to have gaming as our hobby and we choose to be competitive at it. To each their own.

universal_wrath

Jeremy wrote: »

ThePianist wrote: »

We need to see which classes or play styles get vote kicked the most in Vet Dungeons. Then we can decide what action to take, to make those classes viable in Vet content. Magsorc shouldn’t be the cream of the crop for pve and pvp.

I know this is an MMO but let’s be reasonable for a second. Since the “RONA” started, I’ve been working full time. I’m not one of these afraid-of-the-sun pve elitists.

Vet content should be viable in pugs without the toxicity, and without the abuse of the vote kicking option.

I have a max stamnecro, magblade and stamblade and I’m always getting vote kicked for no reason. This isn’t about a dps issue, it’s about getting kicked on the last boss. This is the abuse that I’m talking about. Some people think it’s funny to kick a random pug on the last boss.

What can we do about this? Vet content is already impossible for most stamina players. It must be really toxic for new players I guess.

There are definitely troll groups out there who do this - they wait until the last boss then kick you just to be a ____. I've even had them kick me after the last boss was dead and the dungeon was over just to be annoying. It's also why I think friends who queue up together should only count as one vote toward kicking someone. Currently it's too easy for a group of friends to abuse the kick function and torment the one pug player in the group with the way it is now.

The best you can do is just report them and hope ZoS does something about it.

Groups who kick after last boss usually do random dungeons, they kick you so they can queue for the next dungeon. I have been in some groups, I personaly asl people to leave, but some can't even read english, so we end up kicking these guys.

Raisin

ThePianist wrote: »

So that’s my final proposal idea to ZOS. We need to see dungeon data so we can see which classes needs buffs for pve, and a no kick option on pts dungeon for 30 days.

You have that data, though it's mostly trials (people don't care to log dungeons). What you're looking for is ESO Logs. It shows you how classes are performing, for example DPS wise, or by looking at how preferred they are in group constellations. You want that data to come from dungeons and PUGs, you need PUGs to start logging dungeons.
Data on people being kicked does not give you any information on what classes need buffs. Quite frankly no one gives a flying fart about your class in a PUG dungeon.
I don't think people do enough pugging on PTS to see much kicking happen?

Whatever happened, your class is not the reason you are being kicked, and buffing your class will not magically fix whatever the actual issue is.

Raisin

Jeremy wrote: »

ThePianist wrote: »

We need to see which classes or play styles get vote kicked the most in Vet Dungeons. Then we can decide what action to take, to make those classes viable in Vet content. Magsorc shouldn’t be the cream of the crop for pve and pvp.

I know this is an MMO but let’s be reasonable for a second. Since the “RONA” started, I’ve been working full time. I’m not one of these afraid-of-the-sun pve elitists.

Vet content should be viable in pugs without the toxicity, and without the abuse of the vote kicking option.

I have a max stamnecro, magblade and stamblade and I’m always getting vote kicked for no reason. This isn’t about a dps issue, it’s about getting kicked on the last boss. This is the abuse that I’m talking about. Some people think it’s funny to kick a random pug on the last boss.

What can we do about this? Vet content is already impossible for most stamina players. It must be really toxic for new players I guess.

There are definitely troll groups out there who do this - they wait until the last boss then kick you just to be a ____. I've even had them kick me after the last boss was dead and the dungeon was over just to be annoying. It's also why I think friends who queue up together should only count as one vote toward kicking someone. Currently it's too easy for a group of friends to abuse the kick function and torment the one pug player in the group with the way it is now.

The best you can do is just report them and hope ZoS does something about it.

If you were kicked after the last boss was dead, no one was trolling you or trying to annoy you. They were a group of three pugging together and wanted to queue for their next dungeon without you.
This is why I'm so dubious about people claiming they're being intentionally griefed in some way -- people project malicious intent onto the most innocuous behaviors.

zaria

Thannazzar wrote: »

ThePianist wrote: »

We need to see which classes or play styles get vote kicked the most in Vet Dungeons. Then we can decide what action to take, to make those classes viable in Vet content. Magsorc shouldn’t be the cream of the crop for pve and pvp.

I know this is an MMO but let’s be reasonable for a second. Since the “RONA” started, I’ve been working full time. I’m not one of these afraid-of-the-sun pve elitists.

Vet content should be viable in pugs without the toxicity, and without the abuse of the vote kicking option.

I have a max stamnecro, magblade and stamblade and I’m always getting vote kicked for no reason. This isn’t about a dps issue, it’s about getting kicked on the last boss. This is the abuse that I’m talking about. Some people think it’s funny to kick a random pug on the last boss.

What can we do about this? Vet content is already impossible for most stamina players. It must be really toxic for new players I guess.

OK, not sure if this is a wider issue but it's never happened to me. I've rarely seen anyone kicked from a vet pug but when it's happened it's usually either;

1. They are a fake tank.
2. They have less than 20k health, less than 15 k resists and have been up and down like a yoyo for most of the dungeon.
3. They run ahead of the tank repeatedly pulling.
4. The are spamming "I want x gear in chat" or using a loot reveal mod and whispering players to demand gear before the player has had a chance to view their own drops.

Agree, fake role, toxic behavior, dying all the time an 5 is low dps but this is less common.

Say its far more common that group fall apart because people quit than kicks as group is to weak for content.

Flaaklypa

ThePianist wrote: »

We need to see which classes or play styles get vote kicked the most in Vet Dungeons. Then we can decide what action to take, to make those classes viable in Vet content. Magsorc shouldn’t be the cream of the crop for pve and pvp.

I know this is an MMO but let’s be reasonable for a second. Since the “RONA” started, I’ve been working full time. I’m not one of these afraid-of-the-sun pve elitists.

Vet content should be viable in pugs without the toxicity, and without the abuse of the vote kicking option.

I have a max stamnecro, magblade and stamblade and I’m always getting vote kicked for no reason. This isn’t about a dps issue, it’s about getting kicked on the last boss. This is the abuse that I’m talking about. Some people think it’s funny to kick a random pug on the last boss.

What can we do about this? Vet content is already impossible for most stamina players. It must be really toxic for new players I guess.

This is definitely more of a you problem. I rarely experience kicks, and (i wont deny it) i can be pretty annoying to play dungeons with. I often queue up as healer or tank, I often pull without waiting, tells the lower end dps people to boost up, i once openly said i wanted to kick someone since they were acting annoying.

Guess what? In my thousands of pug dungeons (and even pug trials) i have been kicked with a ratio of maybe 3:40 times. It rarely happens.

If you're getting kicked often (which i frankly dont believe actually) figure out why, and try to adjust a little.

I also only play stam, all from stamden, stamsorc, stamblade, stamcro, never been kicked based on my class or playstyle. And dungeons are definitely NOT impossible to do on stamtoons, lol.

the1andonlyskwex

I used to play a DK healer and would definitely get kicked because of my class/role combination on occasion (probably about 1 in 10 runs, always accompanied by messages about how DKs can't heal). Aside from that, I've never really noticed any class-related trends in kick votes.

Generally speaking, the reasons I see people getting kicked are limited to:
1) Fake tanking (i.e. queueing as tank and not even trying to play the role)
2) Repeated failure to do mechanics
3) Scapegoating of the tank or healer when the run isn't going well (even though about half the time the problem is inadequate DPS)

Aznarb

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I used to play a DK healer and would definitely get kicked because of my class/role combination on occasion (probably about 1 in 10 runs, always accompanied by messages about how DKs can't heal). Aside from that, I've never really noticed any class-related trends in kick votes.

Generally speaking, the reasons I see people getting kicked are limited to:
1) Fake tanking (i.e. queueing as tank and not even trying to play the role)
2) Repeated failure to do mechanics
3) Scapegoating of the tank or healer when the run isn't going well (even though about half the time the problem is inadequate DPS)

DK heal was my 1st char, got kick once at the start of a DG. Someone explain to me that DK is not good somehow.
Then I just started every DG with "STOP don't kick me yet, let do it and if you lack of something then kick me" Never get kicked anymore.
Any healer work, DG are not raid you don't need a full meta comp to have a smooth run.

zvavi

Aznarb wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I used to play a DK healer and would definitely get kicked because of my class/role combination on occasion (probably about 1 in 10 runs, always accompanied by messages about how DKs can't heal). Aside from that, I've never really noticed any class-related trends in kick votes.

Generally speaking, the reasons I see people getting kicked are limited to:
1) Fake tanking (i.e. queueing as tank and not even trying to play the role)
2) Repeated failure to do mechanics
3) Scapegoating of the tank or healer when the run isn't going well (even though about half the time the problem is inadequate DPS)

DK heal was my 1st char, got kick once at the start of a DG. Someone explain to me that DK is not good somehow.
Then I just started every DG with "STOP don't kick me yet, let do it and if you lack of something then kick me" Never get kicked anymore.
Any healer work, DG are not raid you don't need a full meta comp to have a smooth run.

My only heal is dk. No problems on my side.

Chuck_Finley

ThePianist wrote: »

We need to see which classes or play styles get vote kicked the most in Vet Dungeons. Then we can decide what action to take, to make those classes viable in Vet content.-snip-

Vet content should be viable in pugs without the toxicity, and without the abuse of the vote kicking option.

-snip- Some people think it’s funny to kick a random pug on the last boss.

What can we do about this? Vet content is already impossible for most stamina players. It must be really toxic for new players I guess.

It starts with your own actions. You can have any number of punishments in place but in order to combat the toxicity you find in the community, you, need to be part of a better community. I run into way more kind and helpful people in this game than toxic people and it is on us, the community, to continue that trend.

Sit in town and put together your own group, ask specifically for people willing to wait and hear the story of the dungeon with you, or people willing to go slightly slower for you, or whatever your own desired group would need.

When you are in town just to do crafting dailies or to buy something off the guild stores and see people in /zone asking for help with a dungeon or world boss or trying to finish a Dolmen or geyser or harrowstorm take a few minutes and go help them. Be kind and take a little bit of your own time to be helpful and friendly to a stranger asking for help.

The more people being kind in game will encourage others to be kind as well.

As far as you saying vet content is impossible for most stamina players, that has never been my experience, My stamcro WW has no trouble in vet dungeon content. Any class/play style with an average to good build can clear vet dungeons. Toxic people finding it funny to kick you at the last boss is not the same as your build not being viable.

Athyrium93

Op said max level but didn't mention CP.... Technically max level is 50.... A lot of people think it's like other MMOs where the level cap is the end of progression.... Maybe it's just a low CP kick? Since we all those do happen....

the1andonlyskwex

zvavi wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I used to play a DK healer and would definitely get kicked because of my class/role combination on occasion (probably about 1 in 10 runs, always accompanied by messages about how DKs can't heal). Aside from that, I've never really noticed any class-related trends in kick votes.

Generally speaking, the reasons I see people getting kicked are limited to:
1) Fake tanking (i.e. queueing as tank and not even trying to play the role)
2) Repeated failure to do mechanics
3) Scapegoating of the tank or healer when the run isn't going well (even though about half the time the problem is inadequate DPS)

DK heal was my 1st char, got kick once at the start of a DG. Someone explain to me that DK is not good somehow.
Then I just started every DG with "STOP don't kick me yet, let do it and if you lack of something then kick me" Never get kicked anymore.
Any healer work, DG are not raid you don't need a full meta comp to have a smooth run.

My only heal is dk. No problems on my side.

To be clear, I don't think DK healers are bad. I've just noticed that when I played one regularly I would sometimes get kicked because of my class, which isn't something I've ever had happen with any of my other characters (mostly healers).

In almost all of the cases where this happened it was preceded by a message in group chat along the lines of "healer is DK, kick", and was occasionally followed by direct messages about how people playing non-Templar healers are ruining the game and I've been reported. This even included many cases where the dungeon run was going well, so it wasn't a performance problem either.

I haven't played that character much in a couple years, so maybe things are better now, but it certainly used to be a problem on the PS4 NA server.

FrancisCrawford

universal_wrath wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

ThePianist wrote: »

We need to see which classes or play styles get vote kicked the most in Vet Dungeons. Then we can decide what action to take, to make those classes viable in Vet content. Magsorc shouldn’t be the cream of the crop for pve and pvp.

I know this is an MMO but let’s be reasonable for a second. Since the “RONA” started, I’ve been working full time. I’m not one of these afraid-of-the-sun pve elitists.

Vet content should be viable in pugs without the toxicity, and without the abuse of the vote kicking option.

I have a max stamnecro, magblade and stamblade and I’m always getting vote kicked for no reason. This isn’t about a dps issue, it’s about getting kicked on the last boss. This is the abuse that I’m talking about. Some people think it’s funny to kick a random pug on the last boss.

What can we do about this? Vet content is already impossible for most stamina players. It must be really toxic for new players I guess.

There are definitely troll groups out there who do this - they wait until the last boss then kick you just to be a ____. I've even had them kick me after the last boss was dead and the dungeon was over just to be annoying. It's also why I think friends who queue up together should only count as one vote toward kicking someone. Currently it's too easy for a group of friends to abuse the kick function and torment the one pug player in the group with the way it is now.

The best you can do is just report them and hope ZoS does something about it.

Groups who kick after last boss usually do random dungeons, they kick you so they can queue for the next dungeon. I have been in some groups, I personaly asl people to leave, but some can't even read english, so we end up kicking these guys.

I didn't know this.

Is this for the high-level daily random reward, or the lesser repeater one?

And why would a kick be necessary?

FrancisCrawford

zvavi wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I used to play a DK healer and would definitely get kicked because of my class/role combination on occasion (probably about 1 in 10 runs, always accompanied by messages about how DKs can't heal). Aside from that, I've never really noticed any class-related trends in kick votes.

Generally speaking, the reasons I see people getting kicked are limited to:
1) Fake tanking (i.e. queueing as tank and not even trying to play the role)
2) Repeated failure to do mechanics
3) Scapegoating of the tank or healer when the run isn't going well (even though about half the time the problem is inadequate DPS)

DK heal was my 1st char, got kick once at the start of a DG. Someone explain to me that DK is not good somehow.
Then I just started every DG with "STOP don't kick me yet, let do it and if you lack of something then kick me" Never get kicked anymore.
Any healer work, DG are not raid you don't need a full meta comp to have a smooth run.

My only heal is dk. No problems on my side.

I once nervously took a low-skill-point Stage 4 vampire imperial DK (furutre tank) into Spindleclutch 1 to heal. The group asked me to stay with them through the day's other pledges -- CoA1 (not ideal for a a vampire), and then ICP.

The disadvantages of healing on a suboptimal class, race, or whatever are small compared to other factors that determine group success.

Titansteele

It seems like the majority of people have a difference experience to OP and OP doesn't seems to want to accept their views which just leads me to believe that if ZOS were to issue data on this (not going to happen) and it did not support their experience then it will be dismissed as quickly as others views have been.

For the record my experience does not come anywhere near that of the OP`s.

If you walk through life looking at others oddly because you think they have stepped in dog #### and that smell follows you everywhere at some point you need to check your own feet. OP, it is time to check the soles of your shoes.

the1andonlyskwex

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I used to play a DK healer and would definitely get kicked because of my class/role combination on occasion (probably about 1 in 10 runs, always accompanied by messages about how DKs can't heal). Aside from that, I've never really noticed any class-related trends in kick votes.

Generally speaking, the reasons I see people getting kicked are limited to:
1) Fake tanking (i.e. queueing as tank and not even trying to play the role)
2) Repeated failure to do mechanics
3) Scapegoating of the tank or healer when the run isn't going well (even though about half the time the problem is inadequate DPS)

DK heal was my 1st char, got kick once at the start of a DG. Someone explain to me that DK is not good somehow.
Then I just started every DG with "STOP don't kick me yet, let do it and if you lack of something then kick me" Never get kicked anymore.
Any healer work, DG are not raid you don't need a full meta comp to have a smooth run.

My only heal is dk. No problems on my side.

I once nervously took a low-skill-point Stage 4 vampire imperial DK (furutre tank) into Spindleclutch 1 to heal. The group asked me to stay with them through the day's other pledges -- CoA1 (not ideal for a a vampire), and then ICP.

The disadvantages of healing on a suboptimal class, race, or whatever are small compared to other factors that determine group success.

I've had this happen too (aside from the vampire part). It doesn't really refute the fact that some (other) people have class prejudices. That's how prejudice works. You can do everything right and still get treated poorly because people make invalid assumptions about you based on your class/race/whatever.

mairwen85

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I used to play a DK healer and would definitely get kicked because of my class/role combination on occasion (probably about 1 in 10 runs, always accompanied by messages about how DKs can't heal). Aside from that, I've never really noticed any class-related trends in kick votes.

Generally speaking, the reasons I see people getting kicked are limited to:
1) Fake tanking (i.e. queueing as tank and not even trying to play the role)
2) Repeated failure to do mechanics
3) Scapegoating of the tank or healer when the run isn't going well (even though about half the time the problem is inadequate DPS)

DK heal was my 1st char, got kick once at the start of a DG. Someone explain to me that DK is not good somehow.
Then I just started every DG with "STOP don't kick me yet, let do it and if you lack of something then kick me" Never get kicked anymore.
Any healer work, DG are not raid you don't need a full meta comp to have a smooth run.

My only heal is dk. No problems on my side.

I once nervously took a low-skill-point Stage 4 vampire imperial DK (furutre tank) into Spindleclutch 1 to heal. The group asked me to stay with them through the day's other pledges -- CoA1 (not ideal for a a vampire), and then ICP.

The disadvantages of healing on a suboptimal class, race, or whatever are small compared to other factors that determine group success.

I've had this happen too (aside from the vampire part). It doesn't really refute the fact that some (other) people have class prejudices. That's how prejudice works. You can do everything right and still get treated poorly because people make invalid assumptions about you based on your class/race/whatever.

What business do healers have in dungeons anyway?

the1andonlyskwex

mairwen85 wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I used to play a DK healer and would definitely get kicked because of my class/role combination on occasion (probably about 1 in 10 runs, always accompanied by messages about how DKs can't heal). Aside from that, I've never really noticed any class-related trends in kick votes.

Generally speaking, the reasons I see people getting kicked are limited to:
1) Fake tanking (i.e. queueing as tank and not even trying to play the role)
2) Repeated failure to do mechanics
3) Scapegoating of the tank or healer when the run isn't going well (even though about half the time the problem is inadequate DPS)

DK heal was my 1st char, got kick once at the start of a DG. Someone explain to me that DK is not good somehow.
Then I just started every DG with "STOP don't kick me yet, let do it and if you lack of something then kick me" Never get kicked anymore.
Any healer work, DG are not raid you don't need a full meta comp to have a smooth run.

My only heal is dk. No problems on my side.

I once nervously took a low-skill-point Stage 4 vampire imperial DK (furutre tank) into Spindleclutch 1 to heal. The group asked me to stay with them through the day's other pledges -- CoA1 (not ideal for a a vampire), and then ICP.

The disadvantages of healing on a suboptimal class, race, or whatever are small compared to other factors that determine group success.

I've had this happen too (aside from the vampire part). It doesn't really refute the fact that some (other) people have class prejudices. That's how prejudice works. You can do everything right and still get treated poorly because people make invalid assumptions about you based on your class/race/whatever.

What business do healers have in dungeons anyway?

LOL!

Well played.

ForzaRammer

I highly doubt it’s not because of low dps.

Op what exactly is ur dps?

Gnatrak

ThePianist wrote: »

We need to see which classes or play styles get vote kicked the most in Vet Dungeons. Then we can decide what action to take, to make those classes viable in Vet content. Magsorc shouldn’t be the cream of the crop for pve and pvp.

I know this is an MMO but let’s be reasonable for a second. Since the “RONA” started, I’ve been working full time. I’m not one of these afraid-of-the-sun pve elitists.

Vet content should be viable in pugs without the toxicity, and without the abuse of the vote kicking option.

I have a max stamnecro, magblade and stamblade and I’m always getting vote kicked for no reason. This isn’t about a dps issue, it’s about getting kicked on the last boss. This is the abuse that I’m talking about. Some people think it’s funny to kick a random pug on the last boss.

What can we do about this? Vet content is already impossible for most stamina players. It must be really toxic for new players I guess.

So you're saying you're playing three different classes and getting kicked on all of them for no reason aside from people thinking it's funny? I'd love to see some videos because this is most interesting.

Like other people before me have mentioned the odds are you're the problem ranging to a series of issues such as your behavior or lack in knowledge of the mechanics - perhaps even your DPS is the problem whether you want to believe it or not. I'm also curious as to when you're being kicked. Is it simply before the boss fight, after a couple of wipes or during the fight? If someone was going to maliciously kick you it would be moments before the boss is dead but that requires the two other people to be on board and the odds of that happening in a 100% PUG is rare - I could see this happening if you got thrown into a PUG that was already a three man premade, but once again that's rare. Also, true 'elitists' don't pug content - they run with their own premade groups without the need of a filler.

For the record I'm a NB Healer - I've had a lot of people panic when they first see me and / or question my healing abilities immediately in harder content, but I've never been kicked at the last boss because of my class since I prove I can pull my weight, so with that said I have a hard time seeing this being a consistent problem for you simply because you're not a Magsorc.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

ForzaRammer wrote: »

I highly doubt it’s not because of low dps.

Op what exactly is ur dps?

Agree. No way this is anything else.

idk

Vet content is not impossible for stamina players. Heck, when I do dungeons one of the players I run with uses stamina builds most of the time without issue.

I realize some players do kick others from GF groups but it is likely because they are not skilled enough to carry other players since stronger players can easily carry others through a vet dungeon. There is no data for the playstyle of those who were kicked from a GF group. As for the class, I doubt many players are kicking someone because they play a specific class.

The easiest solution is forming one's, own group and best to do it from a guild. It is easy. Players in guild groups are usually more forgiving and helpful. Best of all, I find running with guild groups leads to a much smoother run than GF groups so this is really a win/win solution.

tmbrinks

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

ThePianist wrote: »

We need to see which classes or play styles get vote kicked the most in Vet Dungeons. Then we can decide what action to take, to make those classes viable in Vet content. Magsorc shouldn’t be the cream of the crop for pve and pvp.

I know this is an MMO but let’s be reasonable for a second. Since the “RONA” started, I’ve been working full time. I’m not one of these afraid-of-the-sun pve elitists.

Vet content should be viable in pugs without the toxicity, and without the abuse of the vote kicking option.

I have a max stamnecro, magblade and stamblade and I’m always getting vote kicked for no reason. This isn’t about a dps issue, it’s about getting kicked on the last boss. This is the abuse that I’m talking about. Some people think it’s funny to kick a random pug on the last boss.

What can we do about this? Vet content is already impossible for most stamina players. It must be really toxic for new players I guess.

There are definitely troll groups out there who do this - they wait until the last boss then kick you just to be a ____. I've even had them kick me after the last boss was dead and the dungeon was over just to be annoying. It's also why I think friends who queue up together should only count as one vote toward kicking someone. Currently it's too easy for a group of friends to abuse the kick function and torment the one pug player in the group with the way it is now.

The best you can do is just report them and hope ZoS does something about it.

Groups who kick after last boss usually do random dungeons, they kick you so they can queue for the next dungeon. I have been in some groups, I personaly asl people to leave, but some can't even read english, so we end up kicking these guys.

I didn't know this.

Is this for the high-level daily random reward, or the lesser repeater one?

And why would a kick be necessary?

A kick might be necessary if
1) They don't leave the group on their own, even after being asked (sometimes randoms that join a group of 3 will just hang around in group forever or go AFK)
2) Maybe they were a "nice" group and the 4th had low dps, poor heals, but they did the dungeon with them to completion, but don't want them to come on other subsequent runs because maybe they're doing pledges and it's a harder dungeon/etc...

Neither of these are "toxic" in any way shape or form...

If you get kicked shortly AFTER completing the dungeon, it's most likely just a group of 3 who want to move on to other things as quickly as possible. With the increased timeout of the dungeon you have, you still would have plenty of time to complete the quest/etc in there.

Raisin

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

ThePianist wrote: »

We need to see which classes or play styles get vote kicked the most in Vet Dungeons. Then we can decide what action to take, to make those classes viable in Vet content. Magsorc shouldn’t be the cream of the crop for pve and pvp.

I know this is an MMO but let’s be reasonable for a second. Since the “RONA” started, I’ve been working full time. I’m not one of these afraid-of-the-sun pve elitists.

Vet content should be viable in pugs without the toxicity, and without the abuse of the vote kicking option.

I have a max stamnecro, magblade and stamblade and I’m always getting vote kicked for no reason. This isn’t about a dps issue, it’s about getting kicked on the last boss. This is the abuse that I’m talking about. Some people think it’s funny to kick a random pug on the last boss.

What can we do about this? Vet content is already impossible for most stamina players. It must be really toxic for new players I guess.

There are definitely troll groups out there who do this - they wait until the last boss then kick you just to be a ____. I've even had them kick me after the last boss was dead and the dungeon was over just to be annoying. It's also why I think friends who queue up together should only count as one vote toward kicking someone. Currently it's too easy for a group of friends to abuse the kick function and torment the one pug player in the group with the way it is now.

The best you can do is just report them and hope ZoS does something about it.

Groups who kick after last boss usually do random dungeons, they kick you so they can queue for the next dungeon. I have been in some groups, I personaly asl people to leave, but some can't even read english, so we end up kicking these guys.

I didn't know this.

Is this for the high-level daily random reward, or the lesser repeater one?

And why would a kick be necessary?

It doesn't have to be for any reward. Sometimes a group of 3 is just doing things together because they enjoy doing those things. Like dungeons. If they had a good time with you or found you to be a very good player they may ask you to come along for more. If they didn't feel that way, they want you out of the group so they can queue again. I understand why a wordless kick is common there because I'd find asking someone to leave the group equally awkward, and personally believe that kicking someone after the end of a dungeon is very clearly in no way a real kick. My own tendency though is to leave the group and then re-group with my friends, but that's really just me being awkward and trying to avoid the slight weirdness of kicking the extra dude.

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I used to play a DK healer and would definitely get kicked because of my class/role combination on occasion (probably about 1 in 10 runs, always accompanied by messages about how DKs can't heal). Aside from that, I've never really noticed any class-related trends in kick votes.

Generally speaking, the reasons I see people getting kicked are limited to:
1) Fake tanking (i.e. queueing as tank and not even trying to play the role)
2) Repeated failure to do mechanics
3) Scapegoating of the tank or healer when the run isn't going well (even though about half the time the problem is inadequate DPS)

DK heal was my 1st char, got kick once at the start of a DG. Someone explain to me that DK is not good somehow.
Then I just started every DG with "STOP don't kick me yet, let do it and if you lack of something then kick me" Never get kicked anymore.
Any healer work, DG are not raid you don't need a full meta comp to have a smooth run.

My only heal is dk. No problems on my side.

To be clear, I don't think DK healers are bad. I've just noticed that when I played one regularly I would sometimes get kicked because of my class, which isn't something I've ever had happen with any of my other characters (mostly healers).

In almost all of the cases where this happened it was preceded by a message in group chat along the lines of "healer is DK, kick", and was occasionally followed by direct messages about how people playing non-Templar healers are ruining the game and I've been reported. This even included many cases where the dungeon run was going well, so it wasn't a performance problem either.

I haven't played that character much in a couple years, so maybe things are better now, but it certainly used to be a problem on the PS4 NA server.

I think DK is just the most unusual healer class, so people make the assumption you're not an actual healer. Personally I've never kicked someone on that assumption (we always wait to see what they actually do), but in most cases a DK 'healer' means you don't actually have a healer. You're probably getting the bad end of an unfortunate knee-jerk reaction. People get frustrated and don't want to wait to find out you're actually a healer, which ends up being unfair to you.

VaranisArano

Jeremy wrote: »

If the OP was getting kicked because his or her character wasn't up to snuff then it wouldn't always happen at the last boss.

[snip]

[edited for baiting]

Unless they can just barely manage the regular Vet bosses. Then at the end, the rest of the group is like "Do we wanna do Hard Mode for the key?"

*looks at the weakest link*
*initiates Vote to Kick*

I can't say that's exactly what's happening here, but its certainly what I think of with a string of kicking at the last boss from multiple random groups.