So in short, a global proc cooldown. Sounds fair
WhyMustItBe wrote: »So in short, a global proc cooldown. Sounds fair
Eh, this sounds really bad to me. You give up a lot of offensive stats to run proc sets so without a huge rebalance to the other weights this would just make procs sets useless.
There are a lot of things they could do that would make the situation with proc sets in PVP better without ruining PVE, like making them behave differently in PVP zones. A flat global cooldown on all sets I do not feel is one of the however.
oscarovegren wrote: »The solution would be not being able to proc a damage procsets within the cooldown of another damage proc set. That way several proc sets cant alone take someone down.
oscarovegren wrote: »Make procs scale with damage stats - the issue is a tank can run and do good damage without giving anything up.
@Unified_Gaming
Thats also a solution! That or just being able to utilise 1 proc set with the proc dmg set cooldown
Czekoludek wrote: »Maybe not for the whole duration cuz it would destroy the sets but 3 sec gcd on proc from sets like zaan, calurion etc would make them less bursty
oscarovegren wrote: »The solution would be not being able to proc a damage procsets within the cooldown of another damage proc set. That way several proc sets cant alone take someone down.
For example: Icy conjuror has a 10 sec cooldown. When icy procs no damage proc set can proc until the cooldown of icy is over
This would prevent healthproctanks or builds with 3 offensive damage procsets builds to rely on procdmg alone as their offensive toolkit
That way you can have 1 decent strong procset but procsets cant completely carry the majority of your damage
Atherakhia wrote: »I'm really not sure either solution discussed in this thread would really solve anything. The idea that proc sets have a shared cooldown timer seems punitive for people who run multiple proc sets, and lets face it, there are limited non-proc sets out there to choose from. Are we only considering offensive damage based procs? What about things that are purely defensive like bloodspawn or trollking? These sets would be even more useless than they are now if they also couldn't proc during the 10 seconds a player has Icy on the target. I think this approach would require an enormous amount of retooling for proc sets.
Similarly for basing proc set damage off our stats. Do we really want stamina procs based of magicka? And what's the baseline damage? Are we to assume the damage we see today is the highest point of damage we should ever consider? For example, is the damage on Venomous Smite right now assuming a player is wearing all stamina + divines + fully buffed and with food? Or is the damage on Venomous Smite really just an average based off the stats on its own set and this damage could effectively go up a further 50% when you consider a player with all divines or all infused? Again, I think this would require an enormous amount of effort to resolve and would have far reaching consequences in PVE.
I'm also not sure if Malacath is the problem? Is it reasonable to assume that players who are using non-crit based proc sets are almost all running Malacath currently? Is it safe to assume that the only reason Stamina Classes are running Malacath is because they're running proc sets and Malacath would largely be used only by Magicka classes if they made Malacath not increase proc set damage?
We already have a blanket 50% damage reduction in PvP. Perhaps just making this heavier on proc set damage? Perhaps change the impen trait to reduce crit chance and the damage from proc sets by X%? Perhaps just nerfing Malacath is all we need?
Whatever solution they choose, it's safe to assume that ZOS would only ever consider the change that takes the least amount of effort to implement. That would likely be a Malacath nerf or a change to Impen imo.
oscarovegren wrote: »Make procs scale with damage stats - the issue is a tank can run and do good damage without giving anything up.
@Unified_Gaming
Thats also a solution! That or just being able to utilise 1 proc set with the proc dmg set cooldown
The problem is they all proc at once with no condition on cooldown. The solution is to return the previous random proc chance model.
Making procs scale with stats....omg. You will simply shift from a tank slowly trying to whittle you down with procs, to a high damage tanky build one shotting you.
oscarovegren wrote: »The solution would be not being able to proc a damage procsets within the cooldown of another damage proc set. That way several proc sets cant alone take someone down.
For example: Icy conjuror has a 10 sec cooldown. When icy procs no damage proc set can proc until the cooldown of icy is over
This would prevent healthproctanks or builds with 3 offensive damage procsets builds to rely on procdmg alone as their offensive toolkit
That way you can have 1 decent strong procset but procsets cant completely carry the majority of your damage
oscarovegren wrote: »The solution would be not being able to proc a damage procsets within the cooldown of another damage proc set. That way several proc sets cant alone take someone down.
For example: Icy conjuror has a 10 sec cooldown. When icy procs no damage proc set can proc until the cooldown of icy is over
This would prevent healthproctanks or builds with 3 offensive damage procsets builds to rely on procdmg alone as their offensive toolkit
That way you can have 1 decent strong procset but procsets cant completely carry the majority of your damage
oscarovegren wrote: »The solution would be not being able to proc a damage procsets within the cooldown of another damage proc set. That way several proc sets cant alone take someone down.
For example: Icy conjuror has a 10 sec cooldown. When icy procs no damage proc set can proc until the cooldown of icy is over
This would prevent healthproctanks or builds with 3 offensive damage procsets builds to rely on procdmg alone as their offensive toolkit
That way you can have 1 decent strong procset but procsets cant completely carry the majority of your damage
Would be better if proc sets cost ultimate. This way its self balancing. Defensive sets would be relatively cheap like 1-3 ultimate and offensive but indirect 3-8 and damage procs 8-15 per proc.
If you chose 3 damage proc sets it would have a signifigant ultimate cost.
Olupajmibanan wrote: »Would be better if proc sets cost ultimate. This way its self balancing. Defensive sets would be relatively cheap like 1-3 ultimate and offensive but indirect 3-8 and damage procs 8-15 per proc.
If you chose 3 damage proc sets it would have a signifigant ultimate cost.
I think that this might need a lot of work to incorporate such a condition into Battle Spirit.
Kittytravel wrote: »
Problem with that is then we go down to 1 useful mythic. Thrassians already garbage with the upcoming patch even with the minor buffs to it and Malacath is literally only used because of its proc set condition. On top of which Malacath already sacrifices a lot of stats on its own because a lot of proc sets have crit rating on their bonuses.
If anything a battle spirit proc-specific nerf of 25% would remove the Malacath threat. Overall I wish they would buff some of these mythics to be more competitive but not over the top; but since they have PvP Malacath will never see a buff.
Czekoludek wrote: »Maybe not for the whole duration cuz it would destroy the sets but 3 sec gcd on proc from sets like zaan, calurion etc would make them less bursty
universal_wrath wrote: »oscarovegren wrote: »The solution would be not being able to proc a damage procsets within the cooldown of another damage proc set. That way several proc sets cant alone take someone down.
For example: Icy conjuror has a 10 sec cooldown. When icy procs no damage proc set can proc until the cooldown of icy is over
This would prevent healthproctanks or builds with 3 offensive damage procsets builds to rely on procdmg alone as their offensive toolkit
That way you can have 1 decent strong procset but procsets cant completely carry the majority of your damage
That is a nerf. I use both icy conjuror and ice furnace and iceheart on my PvE frost warden. What you say is I need to detch two of those sets because I can't have them activated together. I use these sets mainly because they look good and support my frost warden theme. I also use red mountain and venomous with zaan on my stamuna dragonknight for PvE, I also like the visual effect for that one too. My tank uses lunar baation, alkosh and engine guardian. Proc sets are great for theme builds. In pvp, would you ve able to activate balrough if venomous or any other proc set still active? What about interaction between healing/support proc sets with damage sets? Will you be able to proc combat physicain/iceheart or chokthorn while icy conjuror/venomous/sheer venom is active or on cooldown?
Shared cooldown is not a solution, it will only open up doors to different ideas of nerfs like the curremt shared cooldown on AOE skills. Damage nerfs or returnung chance based condition is far better. There was alway something that buged my out, percentage proc conditions are not what they same, they are actually higher than intended. Like valken skoria before it bugged, you can have it proc almost on cooldown just by using 1 dot skill while the set has only 8% chance to proc abd there are many sets like that.
Don't know what there is to solve. This is how they want the game to be played. Many other games have found success in letting players instagib eachother. Honestly isn't that the most balanced way? Use whatever colors and effects you want on your character and have those tailor set up sparkles blow up your opponent in the way you chose? You can still push buttons to outskill your opponent its just putting an end to the endless combat nature of some fights by upping the kill potential of everyone which is imho the right thing to do.
THIS. IS. THE. BIGGEST. PROBLEM.A lot of playstyle like running light armor on most Magicka classes just gets completely erased.[...] Try going into a bg on light armor toon(that's not sorc), with 15-18k resistances and you either get blown up instantly or you never leave your backbar due to the sheer pressure proc set put out.