Just stop it, ok no more Strangler threads please? It's enough with the nerf, lag and fake tank threads now we have these popping up lol.

VioletDracolich wrote: »

Except you can counter 40% damage taken by reducing damage and overhealing without sacrificing anything, but you cant counter 6k max hp loss without sacrificing something like having to add more points into hp. So its pretty much not as good as before because by the time it becomes worth it the content will be almost over and thats if you go without dying. Ill still be fun to play with because i enjoy that type of mechanic but if i was to clear something seriously i would do it without stragglers.

That's the point, they don't want people to counter the negative effects so easily. It's also why they're nerfing New Moon Acolyte for its negative being so easy to counter in group environments. Are they good changes? Not really, but they work to an extent overall.

100% not BiS for dungeons or raids.

When 4D got their trifecta in vKA, everyone was in Thrassian. Only one of them, maybe two, had the max of 20 stacks.

This was when the raid was OVER.

Now it’ll take at least 20 stacks for the set to be better than the monster set you’d have to forego. Your raid is nearly over by then.

So it’s definitely not going to be used in trials anymore. It’s trash.

Dungeons are a hard maybe. It suffers from the same problem there as well, which is that you’re going to be underpowered for awhile.

They also said in the developer comment section that they wanted the items to be less over used in trails. So I guess they succeeded in a way, by making the item less desirable for people to even touch. Basically, it's a niche item, like it was always suppose to be.

Niche means the item still sees use. Thrassian wont be used anywhere anymore. There’s no reason to.

They have no idea what to do with the thing, that much is clear.

Calypso589 wrote: »

VioletDracolich wrote: »

Except you can counter 40% damage taken by reducing damage and overhealing without sacrificing anything, but you cant counter 6k max hp loss without sacrificing something like having to add more points into hp. So its pretty much not as good as before because by the time it becomes worth it the content will be almost over and thats if you go without dying. Ill still be fun to play with because i enjoy that type of mechanic but if i was to clear something seriously i would do it without stragglers.

That's the point, they don't want people to counter the negative effects so easily. It's also why they're nerfing New Moon Acolyte for its negative being so easy to counter in group environments. Are they good changes? Not really, but they work to an extent overall.

100% not BiS for dungeons or raids.

When 4D got their trifecta in vKA, everyone was in Thrassian. Only one of them, maybe two, had the max of 20 stacks.

This was when the raid was OVER.

Now it’ll take at least 20 stacks for the set to be better than the monster set you’d have to forego. Your raid is nearly over by then.

So it’s definitely not going to be used in trials anymore. It’s trash.

Dungeons are a hard maybe. It suffers from the same problem there as well, which is that you’re going to be underpowered for awhile.

They also said in the developer comment section that they wanted the items to be less over used in trails. So I guess they succeeded in a way, by making the item less desirable for people to even touch. Basically, it's a niche item, like it was always suppose to be.

Niche means the item still sees use. Thrassian wont be used anywhere anymore. There’s no reason to.

They have no idea what to do with the thing, that much is clear.

@Calypso589 It will be BiS with Imperial Physique builds in IC for all classes that don't rely on shields.

It will still be BiS in vMA.

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Actually the risk of using that item doesn't change much. If you do the math, 40% increased damage taken and 6k less hp have quite similar effects on survivability for your average endgame pve dd. In pvp, depending on your build, it can actually become easier to survive.
And for the damage nerf, well, it should have been quite obvious to everyone, that this item is way to strong and will get nerfed with the next patch. And it's not like they are making it useless. In it's current pts state it will still be bis for all dungeons and arenas aswell as some raids that have enough adds to get stacks.

40% damage taken is nothing like a 6k health loss. Losing 6k of health makes basically everything a one shot unless you counter it with a complete build adjustment. The issue with that is that it would take so long to break even with a build that wasn't for stranglers (20 ish to beat having a monster without build adjustment and probably closer to 35-40 to account for the mag and crit you give up to survive) it literally becomes a waste of time and effort. It's not even worth the gain in this state as you made it to where you can't sustain (gave up max mag for health), can't shield (double shield penalty since shields scale from max health), and probably would never get to the break even anyway (40 killing blows is very hard to get in content especially considering your pets can steal them). If they want it to be a stack mini game where we want to dump stacks periodically then it needs to be way less total stacks to compensate for the build loss. If they want it to be useful but not always used then leave it like live but nerf the spell damage gain to like 1200-1500 which would be enough to incentivize without being completely op like it is now.

josiahva wrote: »

karekiz wrote: »

Honestly Mythics were handled poorly. Stranglers should have been a rare VCR+3 drop.

Because only trials are worthy. :::eyeroll::: Good sets should be able to be found ANYWHERE...being vCR +3 wouldnt stop the the problems with the set being BIS for all magicka builds. [snip] REALLY think the top 5% of the playerbase are the ones that NEED extra damage that stranglers provided? No...its the lower 95% that needed the buff...the upper 5% were already steamrolling all the content in the game before stranglers arrived....all the strangler changes for this patch are doing is drastically lowering the floor while only marginally lowering the ceiling. Just another example of elites tending to ruin a good thing for the rest of the player population...par for the course ZOS

[Edited to remove Baiting]

This isn't on top in groups its on ZOS. This is ZOS model to the T. They look at most things based on how the absolutely top groups are using them instead of seeing how it affects the majority of groups / players. This is why those trying to get better feel nerfs the most. In a vacuum with well executed gameplay thrassians was too strong but ZOS answer to that was to make the set unusable. They needed a scalpel and instead used a wrecking ball....

Me at Graymoor: Ah man that looks fun. I'm glad I finally get to invest in some fun gameplay!

I think it's worth noting that mythics were / are a new thing and that balancing a strong, 1 slot item is difficult and they had different impacts than they expected.
Of course, they have a tendency to ignore all feedback on these things until they see "live" data and then adjust in the next patch.
I'd expect some sort of buff to stranglers next patch when no one uses it anymore. Most likely damaging an enemy that dies will give you a stack with the rest of it unchanged, but who knows, they might redo the entire thing. *shrug*

It's frustrating at times how little credence they give the PTS feedback. I know the forums is a contradictory sewer of comments, but there is some useful analysis in here and it's not that hard to spot the gems among the turds...

Stranglers : dead in trials. will be used for vMA still. Probably a good gank set in cyro now.

B4B : dead in all group content. Is now a dummy cheese skill that no one will take seriously.

I would love to see this set reduce your sustain rather than your health/shields.

That would also provide an interesting and thematically appropriate trade-off of giving up sustained damage for raw damage.

The reduction would have to be quite substantial in order to not be mitigated by group dynamics, probably somewhere in the ~600-800 range.

You could tune the stacks to be at a like 1.0 damage : 0.5 sustain ratio, so 1200 additional damage would be offset by a penalty of 600 to your sustain. And if that doesn't bite hard enough, you could apply it to base sustain rather than to the buffed amount.