Why do Tanks now suck at this game?

mairwen85 · August 2020

volkeswagon wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

CallumTheClot wrote: »

This is the first thread and the first group of pp ...

Group of what now? 👀

Peepee

Jokes aside, I understand and share the sentiment; 'fake dps' implies deception. I don't think we can call bad dps, fake. No one is queuing as dps to circumvent the queue. Unlike a fake tank or healer, someone who is clearly not a tank or healer and unequipt for that role queuing to get around the wait time, bad dps is just that, bad dps--not intentionally trying to fool or jump ahead of their place in the queue.Some people queue intentionally expecting a carry, but the majority of low dps players I've encountered simply don't know any better, although a good many don't want to either.

Troodon80 · August 2020

CallumTheClot wrote: »

This is the first thread and the first group of pp i've ever heard use the phrase "fake dps".
Not everyone is good at the game, they still want to complete vet content.
If you queue for a pug dng, you might get one or even two of those "filthy peasants, with there less than optimal dps".

How about helping them, and living up to this communities' reputation?

"Fake DPS" is thrown around as much as "fake tank" or "fake healer" and sometimes people just cannot or will not be talked to. Your rhetorical question assumes a couple things.

You cannot help people who do not want help.
Some people think their 5k DPS is acceptable for all content.
They speak some shared language and don't sit there silent when you explain a boss mechanic and ask if they understood.

No one called them filthy peasants, though.

Grandchamp1989 · August 2020

Tank main here...

Here's a quick rundown of reason's I've found as to why the tanks you play with suck:

1. They're fake tanks - look at their HP, it's the first giveaway. If they're below 30k health it's not a "tank" just another squishy dps who may or may not have a taunt on them.

2. DPS player absolutely REFUSE to let new tanks learn their craft. They pull the adds, pull the bosses, run infront of the tank and he's lucky if his "healer" isn't just another dd pulling everything leaving him to his own fate.

3. You WILL get blamed. You wipe, your team wipe especially on harder content. Doesn't matter if you're holding 2 bosses and 3 boss adds already, if another elite add spawn in during the fight and cleave your team mate you can be sure some angry kid somewhere in the world is screaming at his PC screen, blaming you for it.

4. You're a pack mule. Tank sets can be hit or miss, there's like two decent tank sets in the game (Yolna and Ebon) the rest is just you being a pack mule for the DPS players, slapping on medium and light armor on you like there's no tomorrow. Want to tank? How dare you wear something that'll increase the odds of you doing your job as a tank, be a pal and slap on something for the dps. Most people don't wanna pull up with that, it's not fun.

5. You're completely at the mercy of your DPS, wanna know frustration? Que up in a vet dungeon and get two DPS players on your team who barely pull 10k, you sit there for 45 minutes while each trash fight takes FOREVER. Again, who wants that when you can just create a DD and roll the dungeon in 10 minutes yourself...

Is the quality of tanks low? Yes! Is there good reasons for it? Absolutely.
So the next time you find a decent tank in your group, or one who's atleast trying... Don't be bad mannered, you just add to the problem.

Aznarb · August 2020

Kadoin wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

It’s like ZOS does not understand there is more to this game then dungeons.

They are definitely not balancing it for dungeons.

Yeah look at Ritual of Retribution getting gutted twice in a row: lost snare , lost healing. Now my templar tank is back to being a meme and still doesn't have any real native immobilize skill or hp% heal.

The balancing in the game sucks because they like to take more than they give, and most of it, does come from PvP balance issues that actually are the result of unchecked powercreep from adding sets on the game that they refuse to take any input on.

I think even when perfected false god's was introduced I said it was a bad idea to leave the magicka line there on PTS and should be spell damage because it gives more than ZOS thought it did, then later down the line they change it...I am just like Then Thrassian...

Another example of not listening to PTS input, only for it to be proven later down the line that something would be a problem, having to nerf it, then having players get angry. I am pretty sure I can call all the next nerfs on day 2 of the next patch because its getting obvious at this point what is OP and what is not OP + what is going to be broken in PvE and/or PvP...

For Templar Tank, tbh it's very easy, for the heal at least to fix the problem.
As healer, I can said with no fear than probably less than 1% use healing ritual.
It should have be turned in 2 morph for solo healing.
One on stam/weap, the other on life %.

That would make Tank and Stamplar happy even in PvP and wouldn't hurt healer at all.

OtarTheMad · August 2020

I used to tank, absolutely loved it too. Now I wasn't an elite tank but I felt I was good but I really got tired of the toxic players who thought they were God's gift to gaming DPS and could just do whatever they wanted in a dungeon and then when something went wrong blamed me. On a couple of occasions, some players even really made an effort to put me down and make me feel like complete crap for no reason.

So, because of that, I typically only tank with friends/guild members.

zvavi · August 2020

CallumTheClot wrote: »

This is the first thread and the first group of pp i've ever heard use the phrase "fake dps".
Not everyone is good at the game, they still want to complete vet content.
If you queue for a pug dng, you might get one or even two of those "filthy peasants, with there less than optimal dps".

"Fake dps" is not "less than optimal dps".

If dps, doesn't have the damage to deal with the adds that spawn on timer, he is fake.

I run dungeons. I pug them as tank. And hell did I meet a lot of "less than optimal dps", they are the majority in queue. But sometimes there are "fake dps". Those are the ones that if you had two of them, they wouldn't be able to kill the stuff faster than they spawn. Your belief that fake dds don't exist is wrong, because of their damage is too low to kill things, they are fake.

Aznarb · August 2020

CallumTheClot wrote: »

This is the first thread and the first group of pp i've ever heard use the phrase "fake dps".
Not everyone is good at the game, they still want to complete vet content.
If you queue for a pug dng, you might get one or even two of those "filthy peasants, with there less than optimal dps".

How about helping them, and living up to this communities' reputation?

Their is a difference between DPS with "less optimal dps" and DPS who do less DPS than a healer.
When someone just stand at 28m of the group doing nothing or spamming LA don't tell me it's a DPS, it's just an useless player who don't even try.

I've play with many new / bad player and hopefully they're not all like that. But the % of people you encounter that actually want to learn is so little...

UglyTriangle · August 2020

Wildberryjack wrote: »

Shortage of good tanks and heals for PUGs is an issue in most games. But the reason there is a shortage is because they are blamed for everything that goes wrong and treated like crap. Who would want to put up with that? So they only run with friends and guildies and PUGs are left with people who really do not know how to play tank or heal and are just winging it.

I'd say this is a significant part of it. There's a desperate need for tanks and healers, yet no shortage of people willing to treat support players like garbage the instant something goes awry. Also, there's always new players joining the game who need time to get accustomed, learn how to play, etc. You were new once.

As others have pointed out, there's also a prevalent issue of people queuing up as tanks or healers when they really aren't suited for either of those roles. But hey, faster queue right?

So you'll get some decent tanks, some very new tanks, and people who aren't tanks at all.

amm7sb14_ESO · August 2020

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Tank main here...

Here's a quick rundown of reason's I've found as to why the tanks you play with suck:

1. They're fake tanks - look at their HP, it's the first giveaway. If they're below 30k health it's not a "tank" just another squishy dps who may or may not have a taunt on them.

2. DPS player absolutely REFUSE to let new tanks learn their craft. They pull the adds, pull the bosses, run infront of the tank and he's lucky if his "healer" isn't just another dd pulling everything leaving him to his own fate.

3. You WILL get blamed. You wipe, your team wipe especially on harder content. Doesn't matter if you're holding 2 bosses and 3 boss adds already, if another elite add spawn in during the fight and cleave your team mate you can be sure some angry kid somewhere in the world is screaming at his PC screen, blaming you for it.

4. You're a pack mule. Tank sets Suuuuuck, there's like two decent tank sets in the game (Yolna and Ebon) the rest is just you being a pack mule for the DPS players, slapping on medium and light armor on you like there's no tomorrow. Want to tank? How dare you wear something that'll increase the odds of you doing your job as a tank, be a pal and slap on something for the dps. Most people don't wanna pull up with that, it's not fun.

5. You're completely at the mercy of your DPS, wanna know frustration? Que up in a vet dungeon and get two DPS players on your team who barely pull 10k, you sit there for 45 minutes while each trash fight takes FOREVER. Again, who wants that when you can just create a DD and roll the dungeon in 10 minutes yourself...

Is the quality of tanks low? Yes! Is there good reasons for it? Absolutely.
So the next time you find a decent tank in your group, or one who's atleast trying... Don't be bad mannered, you just add to the problem.

#4 is me sooooo much.

I've got no problem with group support, in fact I enjoy it, it's a huge reason why I like tanking.

But theres a difference between group support, and just being expected to wear DPS sets that weaken the tank simply because the DPS dont want to wear it because a sustain set or hitting a synergy takes away from their parsing.

Sorry, but no way am I wearing Alkosh or Worm Cult as a tank. Not gonna feel even a little bit bad about it.

I will wear sets like Grave Guardian, Brands Of Imperium, Ebon, sets like that that boost the survivability of the group. I will wear sets like Akaviri Dragonguard to help with ult buff uptimes. Monster sets like Lord Warden, Symphony Of Blades, and I've been known to toss in a Thurvokun as well. I'll even wear a tanky damage boosting set like Yolna. But I'm tired of being told I'm a "selfish" tank because my group support isnt Alkosh or Worm Cult or Galenwe, or because sometimes I may even wear a set like Leeching to boost my own survivability and help me do my own job.

Look no further than your example #4 a to why I only tank with friends and guildies.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2020

Fixing the problem with Tanking is not too hard.

1) Role lockout just like you can’t slot light armor annulment without 5 light. You shouldn’t be able to Q as a tank without a taunt. Will this fix everything no but it’s a start you at the least will have to be able to taunt.

2) Buff bosses. Add in more hard hitting attacks not one shots that’s cheap but very close to a one shot. Make it blockable but undodgable. Something that needs a Tank to hold aggro.

3) That’s it just like that Tanks are back in action. Fake tanks will have to bar a taunt to Q up. Stronger bosses means that tanks are off the hook for having to wear DPS buffing sets. Players that want to learn tanking can use real tanking armor. Make their own build and have fun.

Playboy_Shrek · August 2020

I pug a decent amount. am sure a few people here have seen me in their dungeons, I don't think am bad lol

but I don't pug as much anymore because I lost patience to low dps, look I get that dps hard to play, and all and most people shouldn't be expected to get these 35k+ rotations. its hard. but no hard feelings so generally I try to play with people that do a lot of damage cuz I don't wanna spend 1hr in a dungeon.

also. most mechs are designed. ehm, ALL mechs are designed so that your at the mercy of your dps, oh, your dps can't kill the storm atros in WGT final boss. too *** bad. even if you an solo the boss. you wont be able to. because its a DPS CHECK. its a HARD check and no way a tank can carry them

most checks are dps checks, few very few are tank and very few are heal checks. 95% of them are dps checks and the tanks can absolutely not do much more than tanking the right enemies etc. and do the little things.

literally had dungeons were dps pull like 15k damage and our total group damage is sub 40k. it takes forever to even kill normal trash mobs

Aznarb · August 2020

Playboy_Shrek wrote: »

I pug a decent amount. am sure a few people here have seen me in their dungeons, I don't think am bad lol

but I don't pug as much anymore because I lost patience to low dps, look I get that dps hard to play, and all and most people shouldn't be expected to get these 35k+ rotations. its hard. but no hard feelings so generally I try to play with people that do a lot of damage cuz I don't wanna spend 1hr in a dungeon.

also. most mechs are designed. ehm, ALL mechs are designed so that your at the mercy of your dps, oh, your dps can't kill the storm atros in WGT final boss. too *** bad. even if you an solo the boss. you wont be able to. because its a DPS CHECK. its a HARD check and no way a tank can carry them

most checks are dps checks, few very few are tank and very few are heal checks. 95% of them are dps checks and the tanks can absolutely not do much more than tanking the right enemies etc. and do the little things.

literally had dungeons were dps pull like 15k damage and our total group damage is sub 40k. it takes forever to even kill normal trash mobs

Huhu, me and my tank buddy run in a group with 2 DPS like this few day ago, after the 1st pack in fungal 1 I set a chrono for the fun and was only healing + buffing to not false the experience

Took them more than 6 min to kill the second pack, and I don't know if people realize how long is 6 min xD
One was CP 35, so, normal, the other was 810, like, wtf ? xD

We didn't leave, cuz it's and easy vet. I prevent DPS to take care cuz I'll only keep 1 heal and go full DD to make it easier and we breeze through it.
If it would have been an harder one, we for sur had leave x)

idk · August 2020

depravity_influence wrote: »

I shouldnt haveto join a guild just to do dailies or trials.

And you do not have to.

However, when you pug trials and dungeon groups, and especially when using the GF, you are literally asking for randomness in the level of player skill that will be in the group. What makes that an even worse dice roll is many experienced players are in guilds and tend to avoid random pugs. This applies to tanks especially as a decent tank does not have to pug anything.

Hotdog_23 · August 2020

If a tank is any good, he/she is always in great demand and generally does not need to pug to find a group unless that is something they just like to do.

The main issue is it’s just not much fun to do quest and general content on a tank only character. Sure, you can change gear but for me it’s just easier to change characters and leave my tank setup to only tank. The only time I go to that character to play is just to tank with them.

About the only time I do anything with them outside of tanking once I have them maxed out beyond crafting writs is when the new 2 public dungeons come out. Change they’re gear and do the skill point boss since in my experience tanks seem to need the most skill points of anyone to be fully capable to do everything and change skills as need for the group or content.

Another issue I have noticed is with the newer dungeons being full of cheap one-shots even for a tank it seems that some healer’s and dps are less patient for some tank to learn what to dodge and not to dodge. Been in several pug groups where the tank died and the other where rude to the tank and either left saying a better tank was needed or vote to kick them. Prima donna comes in all roles.

Be safe and have fun

Major_Lag · August 2020

CallumTheClot wrote: »

This is the first thread and the first group of pp i've ever heard use the phrase "fake dps".

It's a bit of a misnomer, technically speaking, since what is really being meant is "bad DPS" - but most people have no problem understanding what is being implied by that statement.

Fake tank = doesn't fulfill even the barest minimum of the tank role requirements (taunt bosses, don't die).
Fake healer = doesn't heal the group to any meaningful extent.

So, by extension, fake DPS = doesn't do any meaningful amount of damage.

And no - someone standing in the bushes and spamming Snipe, or only light attacking the boss, is not even trying to be a DPS.
That cannot even be called a "bad DPS"; that's totally a fake - someone who is either 100% clueless and/or looking for a free carry.

Likewise, there is a distinction between a "fake tank" and a bad tank: the former isn't even trying to do any of the things a tank is required to do, such as taunting the bosses.

baltic1284 · August 2020

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

The scarcely seen winged-unicorn of a decent PUG tank does exist, I've stumbled on a few--yes they are rare, rarer than naturally occurring astatine, but they are out there, and when you find one, friend them immediately!

... invite to guild immediately lol

Wildberryjack wrote: »

Shortage of good tanks and heals for PUGs is an issue in most games. But the reason there is a shortage is because they are blamed for everything that goes wrong and treated like crap. Who would want to put up with that? So they only run with friends and guildies and PUGs are left with people who really do not know how to play tank or heal and are just winging it.

As a healer, I can attest. When someone blames me for their death (not rolling out of mob or aoe, not blocking boss hits, etc.) I won't heal them the rest of the dungeon. I will go out of my way to heal literally everyone else except them. After they die a few more times, I will start healing them again they either realize how much you actually were healing, or leave angrily, to which I say "good riddance."

This doesn't help the player that is tanking don't get me wrong blaming you for there death isn't right but purposely going out of your way to make the player feel unwanted cause he died isn't right either.

At the same time though, there are plenty of "bad" tanks, in the sense of being squishy. Otherwise, they pull agro, stun mobs, etc. Maybe solo players, not invested in HP or heavy armor, stressing out their healer? Which.... is the other problem. Not only do we have fake/bad tanks, but we also have fake/bad healers. Its a bad time for all lol.

This happened cause they nerfed the Tank based player to such a point that we cant even tank right anymore cause no matter what happens the tanks get blamed then nerfed then cant help the team then get blamed for something and it starts all over again. You want tanks to tank then stop that [rocess.

baltic1284 · August 2020

depravity_influence wrote: »

Frist off, this is not towards all tank half of the ones I've encountered are really decent and good but there is a new trend of tanks just being awful.
not sure its mostly dps queing as tanks for fast ques or if its just really crappy players that dont know their class amd skills.
Being a tank in this game used to mean something. They were look at as leading the group and holding mobs now i just expect them fail/suck and get us all killed. you cant blame heals or dps on this unless they are pulling aggro from the tank, but a decent tank will always keep aggro most oft he time.
I shouldnt haveto join a guild just to do dailies or trials.
And i know everyone will say, "Well you get what you get when you PUG." and this is very true but it wasnt always this bad and it has gotten much worse.

Those that play Tank got nerfed to the point that everyone blamed theme for everything so they got nerfed a lot so now they don't go PvP or Dungeons and such anymore as a result of what has happened.
Isn't your fault directly but this is what happens when you nerf a play style as hard as the Tanks got it.

tomofhyrule · August 2020

josiahva wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

r3turn2s3nd3r wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

3. Good tanking can make bosses so much easier, a very good example for it is the king in vDoM, u can stack them in less than 10 seconds for ez destro ults making even horrible dds to be able to pass it.

I think ZOS did sth and now King's copies cannot stack as they used to. I tried to last time I was there 1-2 months ago and although all were taunted and I was in corner, they wouldnt approach me.

I remember very clearly that they DID stack, since that's how I completed the vet mode for the first time.

You can still stack them. Cleared that way 2 weeks ago. (bunny hop when you get in the corner)

Really? I used to taunt them all and then stay at the corner, they would instantly all gather in front of me. When I did it again some time ago, although taunted, they just stood at their places. Maybe your trick will work, will give it a try next time I get there.

They can be stacked, but inner fire isnt going to do it for you...at least not alone. As a ranged ad(like all ranged ads) they have an invisible tether to you when taunted...they stay X distance away(call it 20 meters since I dont really know)....so to stack ads like that, you taunt them then run to the opposite corner...so in the end you end up running into each corner and it loosely stacks them in the middle. You can't stack these guys in 10 seconds(unless you are all-out sprinting, which is tough on your stamina after taunting all 4 of them)...but you might be able to in 15 seconds

Just wanted to pop back in to thank you for this tip.

I just ran vDoM with some guildies and stacking all of the Narilmors this way worked great.

Tigerseye · August 2020

You can get criticised and whined at, by someone playing whichever role, whichever role you play.

If you don't get whined at, you're probably the whiner.

Tanks aren't special, in this regard.

No need to let it put you off, entirely, if you enjoy playing a tank.

Just kick the whiner, or leave that particular group and get your instant requeue...

More than you can do if you're DPS, where if you leave, wave bye-bye to another dungeon within half an hour (normally).

Tigerseye · August 2020

Troodon80 wrote: »

CallumTheClot wrote: »

This is the first thread and the first group of pp i've ever heard use the phrase "fake dps".
Not everyone is good at the game, they still want to complete vet content.
If you queue for a pug dng, you might get one or even two of those "filthy peasants, with there less than optimal dps".

How about helping them, and living up to this communities' reputation?

"Fake DPS" is thrown around as much as "fake tank" or "fake healer" and sometimes people just cannot or will not be talked to. Your rhetorical question assumes a couple things.
You cannot help people who do not want help.

Some people think their 5k DPS is acceptable for all content.

They speak some shared language and don't sit there silent when you explain a boss mechanic and ask if they understood.

No one called them filthy peasants, though.

That's not the point.

The point is that there is no such thing as a "fake DPS", because (due to totally unequal role queue times) queueing as a DPS, when you were actually a tank, or a healer, would mean you had entirely lost the plot.

In which case, you would not be "fake", you would just need clinical help.

Tigerseye · August 2020

Nestor wrote: »

The last time a DD in a PUG told me I need to do more DPS with my tank was the last time I tanked for a PUG.

BTW, the next boss fight, I did not Buff the Group or Debuff the Boss and they learned real quick what a Tank does for the Group. Still blamed me for the lack of DPS.

Then they're idiots and/or uninformed and you shouldn't let a few uninformed idiots put you off.

skooma_dealer · August 2020

BlueRaven wrote: »

Constant nerfs to tank (and healer) dps and armor has taken a serious hit on tank QOL. It’s like ZOS does not understand there is more to this game then dungeons.

I am doing the summer set event on almost all of my characters, care to guess which ones I am not doing them on?

Why do a delve daily when I can do the same daily in less then half the time on a dps?

Why do a wb daily when I may not get loot due to low dps?

I have five at least moderately geared tanks that I can’t use outside of group settings. (DK, NB, Templar x2, and one necro.) Zos has made them painful to play on their own so I only log onto them when the people I know ask me.

This. Outside dungeons, tanks in ESO are painful to play due to very low damage they do. In WoW or FF14 tanks are pretty solid in overworld, but here they are just pathetic. I run from time to time daily dungeons on my tank toon, but I'll be damned, if I will ever do any other content with him.

Tigerseye · August 2020

BeamsForDemacia wrote: »

i think every role can suck in Dungeons , like there are so many fake dds that think they could clear a dungeon but get carried hard

No, there are not, because there is no such thing as a "fake DD" in a game with queue times that penalise DDs heavily and reward tanks and healers.

There are new/inexperienced/unusually built, low DPS DDs, but doing low DPS does not make you a "fake".

Pretending to be one role, when you are actually another, for some kind of advantage (normally queue time) is the only thing that makes you a fake in this game and you are really not likely to do that, as a tank/healer (pretending to be a DD), unless you enjoy unreasonably long queues.

Describing low DPS DDs as "fake DDs", is like accusing babies, who can't walk properly yet, of being fake humans.

Tigerseye · August 2020

Aznarb wrote: »

CallumTheClot wrote: »

This is the first thread and the first group of pp i've ever heard use the phrase "fake dps".
Not everyone is good at the game, they still want to complete vet content.
If you queue for a pug dng, you might get one or even two of those "filthy peasants, with there less than optimal dps".

How about helping them, and living up to this communities' reputation?

Their is a difference between DPS with "less optimal dps" and DPS who do less DPS than a healer.
When someone just stand at 28m of the group doing nothing or spamming LA don't tell me it's a DPS, it's just an useless player who don't even try.

Still not fake, just inexperienced/unable, or possibly unwilling (rarely), to do anything more complicated.

Aznarb · August 2020

Tigerseye wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

CallumTheClot wrote: »

This is the first thread and the first group of pp i've ever heard use the phrase "fake dps".
Not everyone is good at the game, they still want to complete vet content.
If you queue for a pug dng, you might get one or even two of those "filthy peasants, with there less than optimal dps".

How about helping them, and living up to this communities' reputation?

Their is a difference between DPS with "less optimal dps" and DPS who do less DPS than a healer.
When someone just stand at 28m of the group doing nothing or spamming LA don't tell me it's a DPS, it's just an useless player who don't even try.

Still not fake, just inexperienced/unable, or possibly unwilling (rarely), to do anything more complicated.

That just like, your point ?
That not mine. A guy who stand in the back or run everywhere spaming LA is not trying to fill is role. You don't need rocket science to understand that skill are here for a reason.
So yeah, for me they're fake DPS and if after asking them to use skill and dish some damage they keep doing it, it's a kick.

I've play with a lot of bad / new people, and I've rarely seen people like this hopefully. But they exist and they do not fill the role they queue for if they do less than a healer (except if low level and wanting to learn, in that case I help, but in general they don't speak and don't read so...).

zvavi · August 2020

Tigerseye wrote: »

Describing low DPS DDs as "fake DDs", is like accusing babies, who can't walk properly yet, of being fake humans.

Deciding that dds have no requirements is hypocritical and disrespectful towards tanks and healers. If tank doesn't taunt, he is fake. If healer doesn't heal, he is fake, if dd doesn't bring enough damage to pass dps checks, he is fake.

mairwen85 · August 2020

This is me pug healing vBC2 with 2 dps and a fake tank

While I agree that the term 'fake dps' is technically a misnomer, no one in this group had any right queuing as dps.

Aznarb · August 2020

mairwen85 wrote: »

This is me pug healing vBC2 with 2 dps and a fake tank

While I agree that the term 'fake dps' is technically a misnomer, no one in this group had any right queuing as dps.

My pug life as healer, that why now I bring a full DPS set and DPS skill saved on Alphagear just in case..

Asardes · August 2020

mairwen85 wrote: »

This is me pug healing vBC2 with 2 dps and a fake tank

While I agree that the term 'fake dps' is technically a misnomer, no one in this group had any right queuing as dps.

All base game veteran dungeons and vWGT can be done with 4 DDs, even as PuG since there really no boss who can one-shot a well prepared player who dodges, shields and/or heals constantly. In fact even when I have multiple characters with tank setup, if I need anything from those dungeons I prefer queuing as fake tank - DD with Inner Rage on back bar - so I can get more runs faster, because the DDs I get are very weak. For example I needed to farm vWGT for purple Essence Thief jewelry - I'm mainly a PvP player nowadays and I needed the set for my main Stamina DK - and in good groups I was doing 35-40%, in bad ones as much as 70% of the DPS.

zvavi · August 2020

Asardes wrote: »

All base game veteran dungeons and vWGT can be done with 4 DDs

You forgot few dungeons there. Other than vMGF vLoM vUG and vIR I am pretty sure all of them can be done 4dd. At least I can be sure vSCP HM can be done that way, I was there.