Why do Tanks now suck at this game?

FangOfTheTwoMoons

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Tank main here...

Here's a quick rundown of reason's I've found as to why the tanks you play with suck:

1. They're fake tanks - look at their HP, it's the first giveaway. If they're below 30k health it's not a "tank" just another squishy dps who may or may not have a taunt on them.

2. DPS player absolutely REFUSE to let new tanks learn their craft. They pull the adds, pull the bosses, run infront of the tank and he's lucky if his "healer" isn't just another dd pulling everything leaving him to his own fate.

3. You WILL get blamed. You wipe, your team wipe especially on harder content. Doesn't matter if you're holding 2 bosses and 3 boss adds already, if another elite add spawn in during the fight and cleave your team mate you can be sure some angry kid somewhere in the world is screaming at his PC screen, blaming you for it.

4. You're a pack mule. Tank sets Suuuuuck, there's like two decent tank sets in the game (Yolna and Ebon) the rest is just you being a pack mule for the DPS players, slapping on medium and light armor on you like there's no tomorrow. Want to tank? How dare you wear something that'll increase the odds of you doing your job as a tank, be a pal and slap on something for the dps. Most people don't wanna pull up with that, it's not fun.

5. You're completely at the mercy of your DPS, wanna know frustration? Que up in a vet dungeon and get two DPS players on your team who barely pull 10k, you sit there for 45 minutes while each trash fight takes FOREVER. Again, who wants that when you can just create a DD and roll the dungeon in 10 minutes yourself...

Is the quality of tanks low? Yes! Is there good reasons for it? Absolutely.
So the next time you find a decent tank in your group, or one who's atleast trying... Don't be bad mannered, you just add to the problem.

#4 is me sooooo much.

I've got no problem with group support, in fact I enjoy it, it's a huge reason why I like tanking.

But theres a difference between group support, and just being expected to wear DPS sets that weaken the tank simply because the DPS dont want to wear it because a sustain set or hitting a synergy takes away from their parsing.

Sorry, but no way am I wearing Alkosh or Worm Cult as a tank. Not gonna feel even a little bit bad about it.

I will wear sets like Grave Guardian, Brands Of Imperium, Ebon, sets like that that boost the survivability of the group. I will wear sets like Akaviri Dragonguard to help with ult buff uptimes. Monster sets like Lord Warden, Symphony Of Blades, and I've been known to toss in a Thurvokun as well. I'll even wear a tanky damage boosting set like Yolna. But I'm tired of being told I'm a "selfish" tank because my group support isnt Alkosh or Worm Cult or Galenwe, or because sometimes I may even wear a set like Leeching to boost my own survivability and help me do my own job.

Look no further than your example #4 a to why I only tank with friends and guildies.

You say you enjoy supporting but won't wear sets that support your group because they arent "tank" sets. AY is a heavy set, should stam dps not wear it? Why would you make a dps deliberately lower their damage because you wont wear worm cult?

In all fairness if you and your group need the survivability then sure use it, but as you progress and become a better player your dps wont need those survivability sets as much and the best thing you could do in that situation is help increase their damage further. If your group is good and you still refuse to support them further by optimizing their dps that could be a little selfish of you.

Umm no I disagree here dps in this game is lazy why would you have a set that just buffs damage you’re setting tanks up to fail. Run that on a hard boss and die cause you’re not in Tank gear. Tanks are the only role that has to wear armor they get little to no benefit from. Healer sets grant bonuses triggered by healing which rewards your team for a thing you would have done anyways, healing the group.

As a tank you have to stack everything, debuff, buff damage with a 95-100% uptime and have a set that does nothing for you just cause DPS with not wear anything to keep them. Tanking is a support role but it’s not a life support role. If your tank has to focus that much on DPS why not just become one.

Bring that up with the dev's. The way encounters are set up a tank doesn't need traditional tank gear. Most content can be tanked just fine if you know what you're doing. You do not need any sets to help you absorb damage. You can absorb damage just fine with debuffing/support sets on. From what it sounds like you aren't getting healed enough or aren't mitigating damage properly if you're dying in those sets. The fact is Tanks/Healers are more than just damage sponges and heal bots in this game. If you don't like it don't be a Tank. The game seems to be designed so that you can optimize DPS this way.

Also debuffing does not equal focusing on dps. It literally means debuffing the enemy.

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Tank main here...

Here's a quick rundown of reason's I've found as to why the tanks you play with suck:

1. They're fake tanks - look at their HP, it's the first giveaway. If they're below 30k health it's not a "tank" just another squishy dps who may or may not have a taunt on them.

2. DPS player absolutely REFUSE to let new tanks learn their craft. They pull the adds, pull the bosses, run infront of the tank and he's lucky if his "healer" isn't just another dd pulling everything leaving him to his own fate.

3. You WILL get blamed. You wipe, your team wipe especially on harder content. Doesn't matter if you're holding 2 bosses and 3 boss adds already, if another elite add spawn in during the fight and cleave your team mate you can be sure some angry kid somewhere in the world is screaming at his PC screen, blaming you for it.

4. You're a pack mule. Tank sets Suuuuuck, there's like two decent tank sets in the game (Yolna and Ebon) the rest is just you being a pack mule for the DPS players, slapping on medium and light armor on you like there's no tomorrow. Want to tank? How dare you wear something that'll increase the odds of you doing your job as a tank, be a pal and slap on something for the dps. Most people don't wanna pull up with that, it's not fun.

5. You're completely at the mercy of your DPS, wanna know frustration? Que up in a vet dungeon and get two DPS players on your team who barely pull 10k, you sit there for 45 minutes while each trash fight takes FOREVER. Again, who wants that when you can just create a DD and roll the dungeon in 10 minutes yourself...

Is the quality of tanks low? Yes! Is there good reasons for it? Absolutely.
So the next time you find a decent tank in your group, or one who's atleast trying... Don't be bad mannered, you just add to the problem.

#4 is me sooooo much.

I've got no problem with group support, in fact I enjoy it, it's a huge reason why I like tanking.

But theres a difference between group support, and just being expected to wear DPS sets that weaken the tank simply because the DPS dont want to wear it because a sustain set or hitting a synergy takes away from their parsing.

Sorry, but no way am I wearing Alkosh or Worm Cult as a tank. Not gonna feel even a little bit bad about it.

I will wear sets like Grave Guardian, Brands Of Imperium, Ebon, sets like that that boost the survivability of the group. I will wear sets like Akaviri Dragonguard to help with ult buff uptimes. Monster sets like Lord Warden, Symphony Of Blades, and I've been known to toss in a Thurvokun as well. I'll even wear a tanky damage boosting set like Yolna. But I'm tired of being told I'm a "selfish" tank because my group support isnt Alkosh or Worm Cult or Galenwe, or because sometimes I may even wear a set like Leeching to boost my own survivability and help me do my own job.

Look no further than your example #4 a to why I only tank with friends and guildies.

You say you enjoy supporting but won't wear sets that support your group because they arent "tank" sets. AY is a heavy set, should stam dps not wear it? Why would you make a dps deliberately lower their damage because you wont wear worm cult?

In all fairness if you and your group need the survivability then sure use it, but as you progress and become a better player your dps wont need those survivability sets as much and the best thing you could do in that situation is help increase their damage further. If your group is good and you still refuse to support them further by optimizing their dps that could be a little selfish of you.

Umm no I disagree here dps in this game is lazy why would you have a set that just buffs damage you’re setting tanks up to fail. Run that on a hard boss and die cause you’re not in Tank gear. Tanks are the only role that has to wear armor they get little to no benefit from. Healer sets grant bonuses triggered by healing which rewards your team for a thing you would have done anyways, healing the group.

As a tank you have to stack everything, debuff, buff damage with a 95-100% uptime and have a set that does nothing for you just cause DPS with not wear anything to keep them. Tanking is a support role but it’s not a life support role. If your tank has to focus that much on DPS why not just become one.

And if DPS need that much support in order to deal necessary damage, then maybe its the dps holding the group back, not the tank's choice of support gear.

If DD's need tanks to not tank in order for them to be effective, then the DD's need to rethink their own individual viability.

I disagree. A tank wearing support sets that debuff will not save you from bad DPS. Wearing debuffing sets makes good DPS players even better which makes the overall encounter better. Keeping track of debuffs and holding aggro takes skill and a good Tank can do both while not dying.

redshirt_49

This issue is not just about tanks, it affects every role because there are a lot of people out there with sub-optimal loadouts and bad decision making skills.

mochizx

Been in Vet Direfrost on my tank, took about 10 mins for dds to kill last boss on non hm. Overall not very good game experience

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

CallumTheClot wrote: »

This is the first thread and the first group of pp i've ever heard use the phrase "fake dps".
Not everyone is good at the game, they still want to complete vet content.
If you queue for a pug dng, you might get one or even two of those "filthy peasants, with there less than optimal dps".

How about helping them, and living up to this communities' reputation?

New to the forums?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/search?Page=&Search=fake+dps

100 pages and if you search do a better search it would return even more.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

As a vet player from beta I have a tank in each class just to shake things up and well tanking in the game sucks.

Tank life is trash sets that buff other players health cause they can’t be bothered. Sets that adds dps. Damage buffing sets and powers are boring your whole is buff, stack mobs, hold the boss, Rez they people that are mad at you cause they stood in red and dyed.

You don’t have to build for the fight just be a DK with max health food buff, heavy armor with One Hand and Shield will get you pass most content. Like everything it has it moments but being a DD or healer is just more fun.

Tanks are just an extension to DD’s buff bar. It’s the least fun role in the group. Lightning Staff is your buff bar so you drop Wall. Two handed adds more to tank builds, ice lets you block with magic but no lightning is BiS.

a) Don't use builds from the likes of Alcast. They are not for PUGs or general use. They are for specific set groups he plays with.

b) There are dozens of tank sets that benefit the tank and are not just a buffbot. Leeching Plate* , especially post U27, is an amazing set for tanks, pair it with Beekeeper or Brands of Imperium (especially post U27). If you want to do damage, you can always switch to second damage set. Winter's Respite if you are a DK is good in addition to Leeching since this class suffers from Magicka

c) I do not get the lighting (started as Ice staff) staff bs over 18 months now. None complains why 4 of my tanks using still S&B x 2 the 5th bow. Everyone over penetrates these days either way and can use 2H with Carve and Perfected Titanic Cleave to apply the dot if you do not want bow or staff and boost the damage paired with Perfected Puncturing Remedy and no mask to boost protection.

Choices are pretty ulimited for tanks tbh if you want to play as a tank and not a buffbot.


*forgot the name of another set that is brought at same level at LP with U27.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

mochizx wrote: »

Been in Vet Direfrost on my tank, took about 10 mins for dds to kill last boss on non hm. Overall not very good game experience

Especially when people do not break free when the boss drains them. That drags even on normal difficulty the battle because people do not listen.

FrancisCrawford

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Winter's Respite if you are a DK is good in addition to Leeching since this class suffers from Magicka

That wording confuses me a bit.

Are you saying that HoTs are good when one might not be able to spare the magicka to self-heal?

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

CallumTheClot wrote: »

This is the first thread and the first group of pp i've ever heard use the phrase "fake dps".
Not everyone is good at the game, they still want to complete vet content.
If you queue for a pug dng, you might get one or even two of those "filthy peasants, with there less than optimal dps".

How about helping them, and living up to this communities' reputation?

a) Is easy to do 20K dps in this game by spamming bow HA, using skills (injection, dots, etc) and gear that boost damage. Is more than enough to complete everything including vet non-DLC dungeons. Is enough to do nTrials also.

However that is over 5 times the damage the average "fake" DD does these days. It only takes an add on to see the overall damage of the group and detract your own damage done. Is ridiculous to see tank doing 45% of the group damage while been level 20 and the DDs in the group are CP300+. There is something wrong with the DDs clearly. And the situation is easily observable when a good DD exists in a group where everything melts within seconds.

b) I bet the significant majority in here are talking about sub 10K damage which even a level 3 character can do. Hell most tanks with no damage sets on can do 5K dps by just LA/HA and Puncture/Slash. No other damage abilities needed.
Let alone when we use dots like bow/2h/staff on off-hand bar.

c) Helping and explaining mechanics. I bet you play on NA server. Because PUG on EU server in DLC dungeon you need to use google translate to 2 languages at least these days to explain the mechanics. It becomes tedious when every night you have to do it for 20 minutes before every boss fight in a vet DLC dungeons. It drags the whole dungeon becoming 2+ hours event however thats completely different than trying to explain while in dungeon someone how to do damage while having rag tag sets.

noblecron

Nestor wrote: »

The last time a DD in a PUG told me I need to do more DPS with my tank was the last time I tanked for a PUG.

BTW, the next boss fight, I did not Buff the Group or Debuff the Boss and they learned real quick what a Tank does for the Group. Still blamed me for the lack of DPS.

Oh I was told that too a while back. I just gave them a blank stare and calmly said that a tank's job is to buff and keep the boss on me.



But I agree completely with a lot of people on here. Tanks and healers are blamed for everything whether its too little DPS to the typical YOU DIDN"T HEAL good enough. Once in a while I still queue for a dungeon but I don't often. Too many DPS that nag or you get fake healers or fake tanks that want to beat the queue

noblecron

Completely unrelated but I really wish there was an edit feature on messages lol

I meant I get fake

(nvm it wasn't loading for me)

amm7sb14_ESO

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

As a vet player from beta I have a tank in each class just to shake things up and well tanking in the game sucks.

Tank life is trash sets that buff other players health cause they can’t be bothered. Sets that adds dps. Damage buffing sets and powers are boring your whole is buff, stack mobs, hold the boss, Rez they people that are mad at you cause they stood in red and dyed.

You don’t have to build for the fight just be a DK with max health food buff, heavy armor with One Hand and Shield will get you pass most content. Like everything it has it moments but being a DD or healer is just more fun.

Tanks are just an extension to DD’s buff bar. It’s the least fun role in the group. Lightning Staff is your buff bar so you drop Wall. Two handed adds more to tank builds, ice lets you block with magic but no lightning is BiS.

a) Don't use builds from the likes of Alcast. They are not for PUGs or general use. They are for specific set groups he plays with.

b) There are dozens of tank sets that benefit the tank and are not just a buffbot. Leeching Plate* , especially post U27, is an amazing set for tanks, pair it with Beekeeper or Brands of Imperium (especially post U27). If you want to do damage, you can always switch to second damage set. Winter's Respite if you are a DK is good in addition to Leeching since this class suffers from Magicka

c) I do not get the lighting (started as Ice staff) staff bs over 18 months now. None complains why 4 of my tanks using still S&B x 2 the 5th bow. Everyone over penetrates these days either way and can use 2H with Carve and Perfected Titanic Cleave to apply the dot if you do not want bow or staff and boost the damage paired with Perfected Puncturing Remedy and no mask to boost protection.

Choices are pretty ulimited for tanks tbh if you want to play as a tank and not a buffbot.


*forgot the name of another set that is brought at same level at LP with U27.

Leeching is a great set, but it's considered a "selfish set", so DD's don't want us tanks to wear it because it does nothing for them. Us tanks that roll that are often not wanting.

Brands of Imperium is another great set I use on one of my tanks. I also like sets like Grave Guardian that help with group resistances, but because those sets don't buff damage, tanks aren't supposed to wear them.

Tanks are told to only run *damage* boosting sets, i.e. Yolna / Galenwe / Alkosh / Worm Cult (2 of those aren't even tank sets but we are supposed to wear them) because those are the only buffs that DD's approve of.

Wearing resistance boosting sets like Imperium or Grave Guardian are looked down upon, and wearing anything that actually gives the tank health and survivability like Leeching is just outright forbidden.

^ and now you know why I refuse to PUG or tank for literally anyone outside of my own group.

Scion_of_Yggdrasil

baltic1284 wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

The scarcely seen winged-unicorn of a decent PUG tank does exist, I've stumbled on a few--yes they are rare, rarer than naturally occurring astatine, but they are out there, and when you find one, friend them immediately!

... invite to guild immediately lol

Wildberryjack wrote: »

Shortage of good tanks and heals for PUGs is an issue in most games. But the reason there is a shortage is because they are blamed for everything that goes wrong and treated like crap. Who would want to put up with that? So they only run with friends and guildies and PUGs are left with people who really do not know how to play tank or heal and are just winging it.

As a healer, I can attest. When someone blames me for their death (not rolling out of mob or aoe, not blocking boss hits, etc.) I won't heal them the rest of the dungeon. I will go out of my way to heal literally everyone else except them. After they die a few more times, I will start healing them again they either realize how much you actually were healing, or leave angrily, to which I say "good riddance."

This doesn't help the player that is tanking don't get me wrong blaming you for there death isn't right but purposely going out of your way to make the player feel unwanted cause he died isn't right either.

At the same time though, there are plenty of "bad" tanks, in the sense of being squishy. Otherwise, they pull agro, stun mobs, etc. Maybe solo players, not invested in HP or heavy armor, stressing out their healer? Which.... is the other problem. Not only do we have fake/bad tanks, but we also have fake/bad healers. Its a bad time for all lol.

This happened cause they nerfed the Tank based player to such a point that we cant even tank right anymore cause no matter what happens the tanks get blamed then nerfed then cant help the team then get blamed for something and it starts all over again. You want tanks to tank then stop that [rocess.

I get what you're saying, I really do... but don't put words in my mouth, lets clarify:

1) I don't not rez bad players who die, or just players who die in general. That happens all the time in pugs, and even planned groups! In fact, I do the most rezzing when other players seem content to just keep fighting without them. I just don't heal/rez toxic players after they insult me after they die to something I couldn't save them from even if I wanted to. Tanks and healers are supporting you, not serving you. Respect them. We willingly take on a role that requires us to put others before ourselves. That doesn't mean we have to tolerate ish from disgusting people.

2) It doesn't happen often that I (healer) get blamed for someone dying. But it happens. And when it does, it comes from a player that, obviously, the entire group can't stand. They will complain the entire time, and not just blame the healer, they take it out on the whole group (they start insulting other DPS, blame tank for not pulling a million adds from across the room, etc.). One of three things end up happening when I stop healing/the group doesn't rez them. They either shut their mouth (then I start healing again), leave the group (good), or they get kicked (even better). They are usually the dps that runs ahead of the tank anyways, and pulls all the adds, and dies before anyone else is in the room...

3) They ARE unwanted... who wants to run a dungeon with a mouthy toxic player? Bye. They deserve/need to feel unwanted if that's the kind of behavior they are going to bring to an MMO, or more importantly, to group content that at times relies on coordination/cooperation. Learn to be a better person. There is no reason any of us should have to put up with any of that mess.

4) Lets get something straight. Its not the healers job to rez anyways, especially in harder content. I need to keep healing, and the tank needs to keep tanking. We can spare to lose some DPS for a few seconds. Do I end up being the one to rez anyways? 90% of the time. But DPS is the only role that can just up and stop without any real repercussions.

Grandchamp1989

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

As a vet player from beta I have a tank in each class just to shake things up and well tanking in the game sucks.

Tank life is trash sets that buff other players health cause they can’t be bothered. Sets that adds dps. Damage buffing sets and powers are boring your whole is buff, stack mobs, hold the boss, Rez they people that are mad at you cause they stood in red and dyed.

You don’t have to build for the fight just be a DK with max health food buff, heavy armor with One Hand and Shield will get you pass most content. Like everything it has it moments but being a DD or healer is just more fun.

Tanks are just an extension to DD’s buff bar. It’s the least fun role in the group. Lightning Staff is your buff bar so you drop Wall. Two handed adds more to tank builds, ice lets you block with magic but no lightning is BiS.

a) Don't use builds from the likes of Alcast. They are not for PUGs or general use. They are for specific set groups he plays with.

b) There are dozens of tank sets that benefit the tank and are not just a buffbot. Leeching Plate* , especially post U27, is an amazing set for tanks, pair it with Beekeeper or Brands of Imperium (especially post U27). If you want to do damage, you can always switch to second damage set. Winter's Respite if you are a DK is good in addition to Leeching since this class suffers from Magicka

c) I do not get the lighting (started as Ice staff) staff bs over 18 months now. None complains why 4 of my tanks using still S&B x 2 the 5th bow. Everyone over penetrates these days either way and can use 2H with Carve and Perfected Titanic Cleave to apply the dot if you do not want bow or staff and boost the damage paired with Perfected Puncturing Remedy and no mask to boost protection.

Choices are pretty ulimited for tanks tbh if you want to play as a tank and not a buffbot.


*forgot the name of another set that is brought at same level at LP with U27.

Leeching is a great set, but it's considered a "selfish set", so DD's don't want us tanks to wear it because it does nothing for them. Us tanks that roll that are often not wanting.

Brands of Imperium is another great set I use on one of my tanks. I also like sets like Grave Guardian that help with group resistances, but because those sets don't buff damage, tanks aren't supposed to wear them.

Tanks are told to only run *damage* boosting sets, i.e. Yolna / Galenwe / Alkosh / Worm Cult (2 of those aren't even tank sets but we are supposed to wear them) because those are the only buffs that DD's approve of.

Wearing resistance boosting sets like Imperium or Grave Guardian are looked down upon, and wearing anything that actually gives the tank health and survivability like Leeching is just outright forbidden.

^ and now you know why I refuse to PUG or tank for literally anyone outside of my own group.

I so agree. I pug too because I refuse to let other people dictate how I should tank and treat me a like pack mule.

This is Alkosh:
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you activate a synergy, you send a shockwave from your position that deals 1720 Physical Damage and an additional 12040 Physical Damage over 10 seconds. Reduces the Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance of any enemy hit by 3010 for 10 seconds.

Literally not a SINGLE bonus is useful for the tank. not ONE.
Everything boost damage, and your tank pulls maybe 2k damage.

It's only to become a debuff bot.
Add to that when they want you in Symphony aswell and possibly Yolna or Ebon with crusher backbar.

Oh, and be a pal and slap on War Horn ulti too, we need to boost the DPS further.
DOesn't matter if you need Barrier in a rough fight.

GO ahead and take the setup to a PUG.

Doesn't matter if you boost the damage of the group by 20%
20% of crap damage is still crap...

For that reason I focus on my own survival because in the end, if my tank goes down I'm the one they blame in the end anyway.

I get why people who do Vet trials HM need to plan everything out, I really do.
But for the other 99% of the content in the game you can easily do it without treating your supports like pack mules. Too often I see support roles having to compensate for DPS total lack of damage and situational awareness. And at that point I just nope out of there.

amm7sb14_ESO

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

As a vet player from beta I have a tank in each class just to shake things up and well tanking in the game sucks.

Tank life is trash sets that buff other players health cause they can’t be bothered. Sets that adds dps. Damage buffing sets and powers are boring your whole is buff, stack mobs, hold the boss, Rez they people that are mad at you cause they stood in red and dyed.

You don’t have to build for the fight just be a DK with max health food buff, heavy armor with One Hand and Shield will get you pass most content. Like everything it has it moments but being a DD or healer is just more fun.

Tanks are just an extension to DD’s buff bar. It’s the least fun role in the group. Lightning Staff is your buff bar so you drop Wall. Two handed adds more to tank builds, ice lets you block with magic but no lightning is BiS.

a) Don't use builds from the likes of Alcast. They are not for PUGs or general use. They are for specific set groups he plays with.

b) There are dozens of tank sets that benefit the tank and are not just a buffbot. Leeching Plate* , especially post U27, is an amazing set for tanks, pair it with Beekeeper or Brands of Imperium (especially post U27). If you want to do damage, you can always switch to second damage set. Winter's Respite if you are a DK is good in addition to Leeching since this class suffers from Magicka

c) I do not get the lighting (started as Ice staff) staff bs over 18 months now. None complains why 4 of my tanks using still S&B x 2 the 5th bow. Everyone over penetrates these days either way and can use 2H with Carve and Perfected Titanic Cleave to apply the dot if you do not want bow or staff and boost the damage paired with Perfected Puncturing Remedy and no mask to boost protection.

Choices are pretty ulimited for tanks tbh if you want to play as a tank and not a buffbot.


*forgot the name of another set that is brought at same level at LP with U27.

Leeching is a great set, but it's considered a "selfish set", so DD's don't want us tanks to wear it because it does nothing for them. Us tanks that roll that are often not wanting.

Brands of Imperium is another great set I use on one of my tanks. I also like sets like Grave Guardian that help with group resistances, but because those sets don't buff damage, tanks aren't supposed to wear them.

Tanks are told to only run *damage* boosting sets, i.e. Yolna / Galenwe / Alkosh / Worm Cult (2 of those aren't even tank sets but we are supposed to wear them) because those are the only buffs that DD's approve of.

Wearing resistance boosting sets like Imperium or Grave Guardian are looked down upon, and wearing anything that actually gives the tank health and survivability like Leeching is just outright forbidden.

^ and now you know why I refuse to PUG or tank for literally anyone outside of my own group.

I so agree. I pug too because I refuse to let other people dictate how I should tank and treat me a like pack mule.

This is Alkosh:
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you activate a synergy, you send a shockwave from your position that deals 1720 Physical Damage and an additional 12040 Physical Damage over 10 seconds. Reduces the Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance of any enemy hit by 3010 for 10 seconds.

Literally not a SINGLE bonus is useful for the tank. not ONE.
Everything boost damage, and your tank pulls maybe 2k damage.

It's only to become a debuff bot.
Add to that when they want you in Symphony aswell and possibly Yolna or Ebon with crusher backbar.

Oh, and be a pal and slap on War Horn ulti too, we need to boost the DPS further.
DOesn't matter if you need Barrier in a rough fight.

GO ahead and take the setup to a PUG.

Doesn't matter if you boost the damage of the group by 20%
20% of crap damage is still crap...

For that reason I focus on my own survival because in the end, if my tank goes down I'm the one they blame in the end anyway.

I'm very lucky. My guild has a "play as you wish" philosophy, we don't impose gear or skill requirements for trials (and don't even have level requirements for normal trials), our guild leader is 100% against guild requirements, and my raid leader / mentor tank - who is a grizzled trial vet tank - is in agreement with me in our absolute rejection of Alkosh on tanks, let's us roll how we want to (as long as we are actually performing our role), *TEACHES* us much and ways to improve - suggestions, not demands or requirements - and has a trial motto of "we win together or we lose together, but we do it together".

"Working as a team" =/= "adhering to arbitrary and unnecessary set and skill requirements". We work as a team very well, albeit sometimes a bit rag tag at times, but that just makes it more fun, and more meaningful when we do overcome and win.

*oddly enough, the lack of demands on what sets I wear and what skills I bar make me far more likely to actually want to roll with those sets and skills, because the group is respectful of me and my intentional character design, and so I'm far more likely to return that respect and slap on some "meta" sets or slot different skills if it is needed. So I'm already collecting gear and leveling skills that I normally wouldn't use because I am willing to have them on hand if necessary for a group that's shown me and my playstyle respect.

Grandchamp1989

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

As a vet player from beta I have a tank in each class just to shake things up and well tanking in the game sucks.

Tank life is trash sets that buff other players health cause they can’t be bothered. Sets that adds dps. Damage buffing sets and powers are boring your whole is buff, stack mobs, hold the boss, Rez they people that are mad at you cause they stood in red and dyed.

You don’t have to build for the fight just be a DK with max health food buff, heavy armor with One Hand and Shield will get you pass most content. Like everything it has it moments but being a DD or healer is just more fun.

Tanks are just an extension to DD’s buff bar. It’s the least fun role in the group. Lightning Staff is your buff bar so you drop Wall. Two handed adds more to tank builds, ice lets you block with magic but no lightning is BiS.

a) Don't use builds from the likes of Alcast. They are not for PUGs or general use. They are for specific set groups he plays with.

b) There are dozens of tank sets that benefit the tank and are not just a buffbot. Leeching Plate* , especially post U27, is an amazing set for tanks, pair it with Beekeeper or Brands of Imperium (especially post U27). If you want to do damage, you can always switch to second damage set. Winter's Respite if you are a DK is good in addition to Leeching since this class suffers from Magicka

c) I do not get the lighting (started as Ice staff) staff bs over 18 months now. None complains why 4 of my tanks using still S&B x 2 the 5th bow. Everyone over penetrates these days either way and can use 2H with Carve and Perfected Titanic Cleave to apply the dot if you do not want bow or staff and boost the damage paired with Perfected Puncturing Remedy and no mask to boost protection.

Choices are pretty ulimited for tanks tbh if you want to play as a tank and not a buffbot.


*forgot the name of another set that is brought at same level at LP with U27.

Leeching is a great set, but it's considered a "selfish set", so DD's don't want us tanks to wear it because it does nothing for them. Us tanks that roll that are often not wanting.

Brands of Imperium is another great set I use on one of my tanks. I also like sets like Grave Guardian that help with group resistances, but because those sets don't buff damage, tanks aren't supposed to wear them.

Tanks are told to only run *damage* boosting sets, i.e. Yolna / Galenwe / Alkosh / Worm Cult (2 of those aren't even tank sets but we are supposed to wear them) because those are the only buffs that DD's approve of.

Wearing resistance boosting sets like Imperium or Grave Guardian are looked down upon, and wearing anything that actually gives the tank health and survivability like Leeching is just outright forbidden.

^ and now you know why I refuse to PUG or tank for literally anyone outside of my own group.

I so agree. I pug too because I refuse to let other people dictate how I should tank and treat me a like pack mule.

This is Alkosh:
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you activate a synergy, you send a shockwave from your position that deals 1720 Physical Damage and an additional 12040 Physical Damage over 10 seconds. Reduces the Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance of any enemy hit by 3010 for 10 seconds.

Literally not a SINGLE bonus is useful for the tank. not ONE.
Everything boost damage, and your tank pulls maybe 2k damage.

It's only to become a debuff bot.
Add to that when they want you in Symphony aswell and possibly Yolna or Ebon with crusher backbar.

Oh, and be a pal and slap on War Horn ulti too, we need to boost the DPS further.
DOesn't matter if you need Barrier in a rough fight.

GO ahead and take the setup to a PUG.

Doesn't matter if you boost the damage of the group by 20%
20% of crap damage is still crap...

For that reason I focus on my own survival because in the end, if my tank goes down I'm the one they blame in the end anyway.

I'm very lucky. My guild has a "play as you wish" philosophy, we don't impose gear or skill requirements for trials (and don't even have level requirements for normal trials), our guild leader is 100% against guild requirements, and my raid leader / mentor tank - who is a grizzled trial vet tank - is in agreement with me in our absolute rejection of Alkosh on tanks, let's us roll how we want to (as long as we are actually performing our role), *TEACHES* us much and ways to improve - suggestions, not demands or requirements - and has a trial motto of "we win together or we lose together, but we do it together".

"Working as a team" =/= "adhering to arbitrary and unnecessary set and skill requirements". We work as a team very well, albeit sometimes a bit rag tag at times, but that just makes it more fun, and more meaningful when we do overcome and win.

*oddly enough, the lack of demands on what sets I wear and what skills I bar make me far more likely to actually want to roll with those sets and skills, because the group is respectful of me and my intentional character design, and so I'm far more likely to return that respect and slap on some "meta" sets or slot different skills if it is needed. So I'm already collecting gear and leveling skills that I normally wouldn't use because I am willing to have them on hand if necessary for a group that's shown me and my playstyle respect.

That's awesome man! Are you on PC EU and need new members? lolol

But yeah, people are reaal busy noses. Mind your own gear and rotation mate, it's not VCloudrest +3 HM ultra hardcore relax man.

amm7sb14_ESO

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

As a vet player from beta I have a tank in each class just to shake things up and well tanking in the game sucks.

Tank life is trash sets that buff other players health cause they can’t be bothered. Sets that adds dps. Damage buffing sets and powers are boring your whole is buff, stack mobs, hold the boss, Rez they people that are mad at you cause they stood in red and dyed.

You don’t have to build for the fight just be a DK with max health food buff, heavy armor with One Hand and Shield will get you pass most content. Like everything it has it moments but being a DD or healer is just more fun.

Tanks are just an extension to DD’s buff bar. It’s the least fun role in the group. Lightning Staff is your buff bar so you drop Wall. Two handed adds more to tank builds, ice lets you block with magic but no lightning is BiS.

a) Don't use builds from the likes of Alcast. They are not for PUGs or general use. They are for specific set groups he plays with.

b) There are dozens of tank sets that benefit the tank and are not just a buffbot. Leeching Plate* , especially post U27, is an amazing set for tanks, pair it with Beekeeper or Brands of Imperium (especially post U27). If you want to do damage, you can always switch to second damage set. Winter's Respite if you are a DK is good in addition to Leeching since this class suffers from Magicka

c) I do not get the lighting (started as Ice staff) staff bs over 18 months now. None complains why 4 of my tanks using still S&B x 2 the 5th bow. Everyone over penetrates these days either way and can use 2H with Carve and Perfected Titanic Cleave to apply the dot if you do not want bow or staff and boost the damage paired with Perfected Puncturing Remedy and no mask to boost protection.

Choices are pretty ulimited for tanks tbh if you want to play as a tank and not a buffbot.


*forgot the name of another set that is brought at same level at LP with U27.

Leeching is a great set, but it's considered a "selfish set", so DD's don't want us tanks to wear it because it does nothing for them. Us tanks that roll that are often not wanting.

Brands of Imperium is another great set I use on one of my tanks. I also like sets like Grave Guardian that help with group resistances, but because those sets don't buff damage, tanks aren't supposed to wear them.

Tanks are told to only run *damage* boosting sets, i.e. Yolna / Galenwe / Alkosh / Worm Cult (2 of those aren't even tank sets but we are supposed to wear them) because those are the only buffs that DD's approve of.

Wearing resistance boosting sets like Imperium or Grave Guardian are looked down upon, and wearing anything that actually gives the tank health and survivability like Leeching is just outright forbidden.

^ and now you know why I refuse to PUG or tank for literally anyone outside of my own group.

I so agree. I pug too because I refuse to let other people dictate how I should tank and treat me a like pack mule.

This is Alkosh:
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you activate a synergy, you send a shockwave from your position that deals 1720 Physical Damage and an additional 12040 Physical Damage over 10 seconds. Reduces the Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance of any enemy hit by 3010 for 10 seconds.

Literally not a SINGLE bonus is useful for the tank. not ONE.
Everything boost damage, and your tank pulls maybe 2k damage.

It's only to become a debuff bot.
Add to that when they want you in Symphony aswell and possibly Yolna or Ebon with crusher backbar.

Oh, and be a pal and slap on War Horn ulti too, we need to boost the DPS further.
DOesn't matter if you need Barrier in a rough fight.

GO ahead and take the setup to a PUG.

Doesn't matter if you boost the damage of the group by 20%
20% of crap damage is still crap...

For that reason I focus on my own survival because in the end, if my tank goes down I'm the one they blame in the end anyway.

I'm very lucky. My guild has a "play as you wish" philosophy, we don't impose gear or skill requirements for trials (and don't even have level requirements for normal trials), our guild leader is 100% against guild requirements, and my raid leader / mentor tank - who is a grizzled trial vet tank - is in agreement with me in our absolute rejection of Alkosh on tanks, let's us roll how we want to (as long as we are actually performing our role), *TEACHES* us much and ways to improve - suggestions, not demands or requirements - and has a trial motto of "we win together or we lose together, but we do it together".

"Working as a team" =/= "adhering to arbitrary and unnecessary set and skill requirements". We work as a team very well, albeit sometimes a bit rag tag at times, but that just makes it more fun, and more meaningful when we do overcome and win.

*oddly enough, the lack of demands on what sets I wear and what skills I bar make me far more likely to actually want to roll with those sets and skills, because the group is respectful of me and my intentional character design, and so I'm far more likely to return that respect and slap on some "meta" sets or slot different skills if it is needed. So I'm already collecting gear and leveling skills that I normally wouldn't use because I am willing to have them on hand if necessary for a group that's shown me and my playstyle respect.

That's awesome man! Are you on PC EU and need new members? lolol

But yeah, people are reaal busy noses. Mind your own gear and rotation mate, it's not VCloudrest +3 HM ultra hardcore relax man.

Haha, I'm on PC-NA

I always say to people who tell me what sets / skills / rotations to use, that if you want to tell me what to do, then you can just play my character for me. If you want to pay for my ESO+ sub, then *maybe* I'll let you tell me how my characters are played.

Otherwise, let me play my character. I know how to do my job and I don't need your sets and skill rotations to do it.

Rex-Umbra

Tanking is demanding and not rewarding.

FangOfTheTwoMoons

To the people who keep saying that they need to wear debuffing/support sets all the time I say this to you:

If you're struggling with survivability as a Tank its completely fine to wear defensive/selfish sets. If you and your group are progressing through a specific fight it's fine.

If you and your healers are doing a fine job surviving then buff sets are the way to go.

Now if you're surviving fine and your DPS are dying you can still wear the debuff/support sets. This is because no matter what you wear as a Tank you cant stop DPS from dying to mechs. (If heals are low there are some defensive options you could use as well)

I think it comes down to mostly who you're running with and what the goal of the group is. If your group is farming for gear you should 100% be wearing debuffing/support sets (as long as the fight doesn't require extra survivability, (because sometimes that's a thing) . Joining a farming group is not the time for you to be progressing through a fight. You want to get the clear fast and helping support the DPS is the best thing you can do in that situation. If your group doesnt expect to clear and are just practicing an encounter, selfish defensive sets are fine until you learn the fight.

It baffles me how people would just blatantly forgo optimization. I could understand if you're a new player, of course new players need to learn their craft, no ones disagreeing with that. But if you're an experienced Tank who knows what you're doing the only reasonable thing is to use support sets. One to two situations will occur when you reach a certain threshold. You'll either be surviving fine with a bunch of extra mitigation you do not need. Or you'll be surviving fine while also supporting the rest of you group.

On the other hand maybe you want all that extra survivability because that how you wanna play. That's good for you, no one should tell you how to play. Just find a group of like minded people who will accept that. Do not blame people who have clear expectations that you cannot/refuse to meet.

Xebov

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

If you're a good Tank your Tanking speaks for itself. Good players can recognize when the Tank is doing their job. Unfortunately it sounds like you ran into some toxic players.

Even good players dont always reconize it because they think they are allowed to do misstakes and tanks have to cover it up.

Pink_Pixie wrote: »

However, I feel healers and tanks (the real kind) get the short end of the stick, being blamed for this and that, yet it's always the dps that is the cause. I play dps, and yes, I make mistakes and those mistakes are my own, it's not the fault of the tank or healer.

The problem is that its very easy to see a bad tank and that most misstakes can easily be blamed on tanks because the game doesnt show players how bad they are. Even the Devs support this by not allowing accurate parses of dps. If this would be supported it would be easy to show bad dps that they are actually underperforming, but i guess they would still blame tanks for not buffing them right.

RebornV3x

Lot of fake tanks in the queue. doesn't help theres probably a dozen encounters at best in the entire game that really push or expose tanks so when they finally get into that content they get wreaked.