Why do Tanks now suck at this game?

Troodon80

Tigerseye wrote: »

Troodon80 wrote: »

CallumTheClot wrote: »

This is the first thread and the first group of pp i've ever heard use the phrase "fake dps".
Not everyone is good at the game, they still want to complete vet content.
If you queue for a pug dng, you might get one or even two of those "filthy peasants, with there less than optimal dps".

How about helping them, and living up to this communities' reputation?

"Fake DPS" is thrown around as much as "fake tank" or "fake healer" and sometimes people just cannot or will not be talked to. Your rhetorical question assumes a couple things.

• You cannot help people who do not want help.
• Some people think their 5k DPS is acceptable for all content.
• They speak some shared language and don't sit there silent when you explain a boss mechanic and ask if they understood.

No one called them filthy peasants, though.

That's not the point.

The point is that there is no such thing as a "fake DPS", because (due to totally unequal role queue times) queueing as a DPS, when you were actually a tank, or a healer, would mean you had entirely lost the plot.

In which case, you would not be "fake", you would just need clinical help.

It was entirely the point of the post I was replying to. Please read the post I was replying to. My post was not a dictionary description of what "fake" means, but rather why many people in the group finder, seemingly, cannot be helped. "Fake DPS" is thrown around a lot, without being specific as to what "Fake DPS" means, informing the poster that it's far from being the first on this forum. What it means, if you should choose to read any additional posts, could, of course, be debated. That, however, was not the point of my post.

tomofhyrule

Here's another thing that makes it tough to be a tank: Imposter syndrome.

As has been mentioned, tanks are 100% dependent on the DPS in terms of how the dungeon runs. Since tanking is a lot of blocking and throwing out low-damage abilities like Pierce Armor, Low Slash, and Inner Fire, a tank's DPS is going to be somewhere around 1-5k. I think I've seen on ESO logs that I'm usually doing around 1-2% of group DPS in trials. All of that means that your run is completely based on how well the others in the group do their jobs - you can be an incredible tank, but still spend an hour in vFG1 if the group has barely any DPS. Conversely, a mediocre tank can get the speedrun in MHK if they're running with a 100k+ DPS group who burns everything before the tank even gets there.

As such, it's really hard to tell if you're getting better, or if you're even doing a good job. A DPS can easily say "Well, we nuked Maarselok in under two minutes, so I'm definitely good." They also have addons that let them say "I did 75% of group DPS fighting Balorgh and the fight was over before he could even do his last hunt phase, so I'm really good at this." Not to mention the parse data that they can get from dummies in the first place. Healers have it a bit tougher, but it's still something that they can see that nobody dropped below 90% HP or that their buffs had over 90% uptime. But for a tank? "I kept the boss taunted the whole time and didn't die" is about our major metric to see if we're doing well.

That means that it's easy to wonder if you're even good or not. If I'm taking a hit from a Stone Watcher in DoM, those are going to hit really hard even through block. If you can survive those and keep resources up, that means that you're good at tanking...or that your healer is really good at focusing on you. If you can handle the Planar Inhibitor in vWGT without getting overwhelmed by fire and adds, that means you're a good tank...or that your DPS is great and taking her down before she's a problem. But of course dying to those things instantly makes you think "well, I'm a bad tank," even if one of the main reasons it went sideways was because the healer wasn't healing or the DPS wasn't focusing mechanics.

As such, it's very easy to die in a group that isn't throwing synergies/heals/resources to the tank and feel that it was my fault as a tank for not surviving. And it's also easy to pass a dungeon and feel that it was all because of the high DPS and great healer. In short, there's very few ways that you can get out of tanking something while thinking "you know, maybe I don't suck at life."

Honestly the only times I've ever felt that I'm getting better were doing trials with a non-optimal group setup - I managed to solo tank vAA once - it took a bit, but I got it - and I also solo tanked a 6-man run of nSS which went pretty well. Those made me feel great since it's really hard to think I wasn't doing my job in those runs. But I've also done a few vDLC dungeons that made me feel like I was a drag on the group and just getting carried though by the others, even though I couldn't really point out what I did wrong beyond "I died." At least when I make the mistake of dropping block or looking around to collect adds instead of the heavy that's coming in my face, or forgetting about my sustain, I know it's my fault and then I can do better next time.

So yeah, tanking is pretty thankless and it's rare to hear anything like "hey, you're doing better, that was a good job." You're much more likely to hear that in a guild, where people run with you and help you improve, than you are in a random group that may or may not even have the deeps to make it to the end (and then they blame you since it's never the DPS' fault).

Drdeath20

New to tanking and i would not describe myself as a great tank. What i have learned is that it is a thankless job.

Having damage dealers sprint from location to location, starting fights, standing in stupid, not prioritizing the important targets, not knowing key mechanics, getting one shotted, doing low dps, not offering synergies etc...

On good groups that allow me to lead the way i am able to group the adds, keep aggro and maintain great buff/debuff uptime and most importantly not die.

I believe that a good tank makes a group better but in the end there are limits and vice versa.

To answer your question the game has gotten much harder and most of the experienced tanks have been recruited by guilds. The rewards for using a random group finder are more often than not worth the stress and aggravation.

Major_Lag

Drdeath20 wrote: »

I believe that a good tank makes a group better but in the end there are limits and vice versa.

A tank can generally help a good group become much better, but when dealing with bad groups it's quite hopeless.

It does not help that most of the buffs and debuffs a tank can provide have the effect of a % increase to the group DPS (as opposed to, say, a flat increase of X per second).
+ X% of nothing is still nothing.
Buffs like Warhorn, crusher enchant, Fracture/Breach, etc., are all wasted on low DPS groups - and with usual tank builds for harder content there is nothing that can be done to compensate.

OTOH, in strong groups the difference between a good tank and a bad tank can be easily on the order of 20-30k group DPS, when everything is properly positioned and (de)buffed.

CombatPrayer

Or you get a good tank that does their job and has some idiot dps use dragon leap on mobs you group, and another using an ice staff pulling aggro.

Aznarb

Drdeath20 wrote: »

New to tanking and i would not describe myself as a great tank. What i have learned is that it is a thankless job.

Having damage dealers sprint from location to location, starting fights, standing in stupid, not prioritizing the important targets, not knowing key mechanics, getting one shotted, doing low dps, not offering synergies etc...

On good groups that allow me to lead the way i am able to group the adds, keep aggro and maintain great buff/debuff uptime and most importantly not die.

I believe that a good tank makes a group better but in the end there are limits and vice versa.

To answer your question the game has gotten much harder and most of the experienced tanks have been recruited by guilds. The rewards for using a random group finder are more often than not worth the stress and aggravation.

When the group is good 1 DD or Healer can easily help you to earn time packing add.
When I play with buddy, I let them deal with the pack in the room and go fast pull the next room and break LOS near tank so all add are near him.
Easy pack for tank, easy burst by dps, smooth run.

FangOfTheTwoMoons

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Tank main here...

Here's a quick rundown of reason's I've found as to why the tanks you play with suck:

1. They're fake tanks - look at their HP, it's the first giveaway. If they're below 30k health it's not a "tank" just another squishy dps who may or may not have a taunt on them.

2. DPS player absolutely REFUSE to let new tanks learn their craft. They pull the adds, pull the bosses, run infront of the tank and he's lucky if his "healer" isn't just another dd pulling everything leaving him to his own fate.

3. You WILL get blamed. You wipe, your team wipe especially on harder content. Doesn't matter if you're holding 2 bosses and 3 boss adds already, if another elite add spawn in during the fight and cleave your team mate you can be sure some angry kid somewhere in the world is screaming at his PC screen, blaming you for it.

4. You're a pack mule. Tank sets Suuuuuck, there's like two decent tank sets in the game (Yolna and Ebon) the rest is just you being a pack mule for the DPS players, slapping on medium and light armor on you like there's no tomorrow. Want to tank? How dare you wear something that'll increase the odds of you doing your job as a tank, be a pal and slap on something for the dps. Most people don't wanna pull up with that, it's not fun.

5. You're completely at the mercy of your DPS, wanna know frustration? Que up in a vet dungeon and get two DPS players on your team who barely pull 10k, you sit there for 45 minutes while each trash fight takes FOREVER. Again, who wants that when you can just create a DD and roll the dungeon in 10 minutes yourself...

Is the quality of tanks low? Yes! Is there good reasons for it? Absolutely.
So the next time you find a decent tank in your group, or one who's atleast trying... Don't be bad mannered, you just add to the problem.

#4 is me sooooo much.

I've got no problem with group support, in fact I enjoy it, it's a huge reason why I like tanking.

But theres a difference between group support, and just being expected to wear DPS sets that weaken the tank simply because the DPS dont want to wear it because a sustain set or hitting a synergy takes away from their parsing.

Sorry, but no way am I wearing Alkosh or Worm Cult as a tank. Not gonna feel even a little bit bad about it.

I will wear sets like Grave Guardian, Brands Of Imperium, Ebon, sets like that that boost the survivability of the group. I will wear sets like Akaviri Dragonguard to help with ult buff uptimes. Monster sets like Lord Warden, Symphony Of Blades, and I've been known to toss in a Thurvokun as well. I'll even wear a tanky damage boosting set like Yolna. But I'm tired of being told I'm a "selfish" tank because my group support isnt Alkosh or Worm Cult or Galenwe, or because sometimes I may even wear a set like Leeching to boost my own survivability and help me do my own job.

Look no further than your example #4 a to why I only tank with friends and guildies.

You say you enjoy supporting but won't wear sets that support your group because they arent "tank" sets. AY is a heavy set, should stam dps not wear it? Why would you make a dps deliberately lower their damage because you wont wear worm cult?

In all fairness if you and your group need the survivability then sure use it, but as you progress and become a better player your dps wont need those survivability sets as much and the best thing you could do in that situation is help increase their damage further. If your group is good and you still refuse to support them further by optimizing their dps that could be a little selfish of you.

Thechuckage

CombatPrayer wrote: »

Or you get a good tank that does their job and has some idiot dps use dragon leap on mobs you group, and another using an ice staff pulling aggro.

Oh were you healing for about 1/4 of my pug runs?

amm7sb14_ESO

zvavi wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

All base game veteran dungeons and vWGT can be done with 4 DDs

You forgot few dungeons there. Other than vMGF vLoM vUG and vIR I am pretty sure all of them can be done 4dd. At least I can be sure vSCP HM can be done that way, I was there.

Another reason why you can't find tanks - we are constantly being told that we aren't needed.

Well if we arent needed then stop asking about us. Bye.

Coatmagic

Not sure if anyone has mentioned but block is currently broken af (on eu at least) so even good tanks are getting one-shotted and it's not their fault or the healers

zvavi

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

All base game veteran dungeons and vWGT can be done with 4 DDs

You forgot few dungeons there. Other than vMGF vLoM vUG and vIR I am pretty sure all of them can be done 4dd. At least I can be sure vSCP HM can be done that way, I was there.

Another reason why you can't find tanks - we are constantly being told that we aren't needed.

Well if we arent needed then stop asking about us. Bye.

1. I never said not needed. That's your own conclusion.
2. 4 dding vDLC dungeons is for fun & giggles, definitely in an organized group, and I would definitely prefer a tank for comfortable run. Most of the runs I do like this actually end up being with most people that tank regularly as well.
3. Some of them have mechanics that would one shot non tanks, so a lot of ressing will be needed. Now that I think about it add vIR to the passable list.
4. Tanks job is very important, add control & debuffs, makes runs with competent dds faster than a 4th competent dd. Even though when I do level tanks I end up being hybrid dps because random normal is full of low dmg dds where tank setup that taunts and does mechanics can still pull out 10k dps, which is usually 40% of dmg done (no joke).

EmEm_Oh

mairwen85 wrote: »

The scarcely seen winged-unicorn of a decent PUG tank does exist, I've stumbled on a few--yes they are rare, rarer than naturally occurring astatine, but they are out there, and when you find one, friend them immediately!

That's what I did. lol.

Wearing heavy and slotting Chudan does not mean you're a tank, fwiw to those out there. It's much more than just your resistance stats. Be sure to go up against WBs in various locations to get an idea of how disease, poison, and physical damage WBs affect your build.

zvavi

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

The scarcely seen winged-unicorn of a decent PUG tank does exist, I've stumbled on a few--yes they are rare, rarer than naturally occurring astatine, but they are out there, and when you find one, friend them immediately!

That's what I did. lol.

Wearing heavy and slotting Chudan does not mean you're a tank, fwiw to those out there. It's much more than just your resistance stats. Be sure to go up against WBs in various locations to get an idea of how disease, poison, and physical damage WBs affect your build.

That's the most absurd out of context suggestion I have ever seen. How are world bosses that are able to soloed on dds give you any info about tanking? Especially when all 3 damage types you have named are connected to the same stat of physical resistance?

Xebov

depravity_influence wrote: »

Frist off, this is not towards all tank half of the ones I've encountered are really decent and good but there is a new trend of tanks just being awful.

Its a chain of events that has something to do how the community sees tanks.

In general all DDs expect tanks to be good and capable of staying alive no matter what. Even the 5k DPS joes out there act like this. They seem to view it as normal given that tanks spend alot of time to improve builds and collect gear, while DDs view themselfes as "play like you want".
Tanks rarely receive appreciation and are the first to be blamed. Be it that we are not able or willing to tank something forever, or DDs dying from random attacks we cannot control. It doesnt matter, we are often blamed for things we cant do anything about.
This causes experienced tanks to step out of the random public into guilds or small communities where they feel treated wit respect and appreciated for the work they do, or at least surrounded by DDs that also put in efford.
What remains are inexperienced tanks, they get discuraged by the expectations so some of them either stop or go the experienced path at some point. Due to the general lack of tanks and long queues this caused DDs to go in as fake tanks.

I play Tank only and over time i seen anything from player, even from experienced ones that rather blame me than think about what they did wrong.

Currently there are only 3 players in the game that can request me to tank anything for them, even if i dont need it.

amm7sb14_ESO

Xebov wrote: »

depravity_influence wrote: »

Frist off, this is not towards all tank half of the ones I've encountered are really decent and good but there is a new trend of tanks just being awful.

Its a chain of events that has something to do how the community sees tanks.

In general all DDs expect tanks to be good and capable of staying alive no matter what. Even the 5k DPS joes out there act like this. They seem to view it as normal given that tanks spend alot of time to improve builds and collect gear, while DDs view themselfes as "play like you want".
Tanks rarely receive appreciation and are the first to be blamed. Be it that we are not able or willing to tank something forever, or DDs dying from random attacks we cannot control. It doesnt matter, we are often blamed for things we cant do anything about.
This causes experienced tanks to step out of the random public into guilds or small communities where they feel treated wit respect and appreciated for the work they do, or at least surrounded by DDs that also put in efford.
What remains are inexperienced tanks, they get discuraged by the expectations so some of them either stop or go the experienced path at some point. Due to the general lack of tanks and long queues this caused DDs to go in as fake tanks.

I play Tank only and over time i seen anything from player, even from experienced ones that rather blame me than think about what they did wrong.

Currently there are only 3 players in the game that can request me to tank anything for them, even if i dont need it.

I remember one time doing Wayrest Sewers, and on the boss that teleports around the room, regardless of the tank's taunts. Had one of the DD's say "so is our tank just not tanking?"

After the fight I said "of course I'm tanking what else would I be doing?" He says "well the boss was jumping around", and so of course I told him "those are the mechanics of the fight!"

We are always blamed for the DD's lack of mech comprehension, and it gets into the deeper point I brought up that DD's just want to parse. They don't want to sustain, self heal, purge, or do anything that breaks them out of their rotation, including learn mechs, and as such tanks are thrown in Alkosh and Worm Cult and blamed when the DD's die cuz they don't know what's going on

Xebov

Myrddin1357 wrote: »

This game has a general problem with teaching people the basics. People who get good learn from others but there a lots of players who just don't anything with other players and play eso like a single player game.

The problem is not teaching. Its forcing them. As long as a group has a good tank even the worst of DDs can make it. There is nothing forcing them to think about what they are doing. Even if you would teach them better they could still just oignore it

mairwen85 wrote: »

I don't think we can call bad dps, fake.

Yes we can. They jump into harder content for better rewards without being able to fill the role. That turns them into fake. Just because DD is the natural role most players choose doesnt make it less fake.

CallumTheClot wrote: »

Not everyone is good at the game, they still want to complete vet content.

Then they have to improve to be able to fullfil their role instead of counting on being caried. They expect me to be good but are to lazy to do some basic research themselves.

CallumTheClot wrote: »

How about helping them, and living up to this communities' reputation?

Dont you think we already tried? Most of them dont want any help. Besides rare examples from this it usually ends like this:

I tell them to Improve their survivability as they die from single small adds. -> They tell me iam a bad tank as it is my duty to tank all the adds all the time.
I tell them to improve their performance as they deal very low damage for the content. -> They tell me it is my duty to tank the bosses for as long as it takes for them to kill them. One even once told me he plays as he wnats and its my duty to make up for his lack in performance. Let that sink in.
I explain mechanics. -> Noone is listening.
Ppl die from AoEs, one shot mechanics or untankable bosses. -> I get blamed.

That is the reality and im not even counting in the agressiv hate tells and harrasments i receive every know and then when one of these "poor" fellas thinks im being unfair and he has to explain to me how things are working.

I stopped talking to these ppl all along. I kick them or i leave the groups as it is much better for my mental health.

JamuThatsWho

So there I was in Grahtwood, ready to grab some keys for that day.

I queue up with my decked-out 810 necro healer, and the first dungeon that popped was vWS1.

Easy-peasy, I thought. Oh dear, how wrong I was.

The "tank" had 19K health, refused to block or taunt, and was using a bow the entire time. In fact, no-one else blocked for the entity of the final boss, which we wiped on 5 times.

I even got several great opportunities to demonstrate how effective blocking is, while frantically throwing out heals to keep me and the rest of them alive.

Add to that lacklustre DPS and a flat-out refusal to listen or engage, and you've got a very grumpy kitty.

I'm a patient guy, I help out, but by Sithis some of you need to stay out of Vet dungeons until you've cleared Normal at least.

Aznarb

JamuThatsWho wrote: »

I'm a patient guy, I help out, but by Sithis some of you need to stay out of Vet dungeons until you've cleared Normal at least.

Fixed for ya.

Grandchamp1989

JamuThatsWho wrote: »

So there I was in Grahtwood, ready to grab some keys for that day.

I queue up with my decked-out 810 necro healer, and the first dungeon that popped was vWS1.

Easy-peasy, I thought. Oh dear, how wrong I was.

The "tank" had 19K health, refused to block or taunt, and was using a bow the entire time. In fact, no-one else blocked for the entity of the final boss, which we wiped on 5 times.

I even got several great opportunities to demonstrate how effective blocking is, while frantically throwing out heals to keep me and the rest of them alive.

Add to that lacklustre DPS and a flat-out refusal to listen or engage, and you've got a very grumpy kitty.

I'm a patient guy, I help out, but by Sithis some of you need to stay out of Vet dungeons until you've cleared Normal at least.

lolol

Personly I love it when the entire team gets chased around and wipe 5 times because the team has a fake tank.
40 minutes later by some miracle the team pulls through and the fake tank is like

"See, EZ" and then he leaves.

rexagamemnon

Zos gutted the tank meta recently

baltic1284

rexagamemnon wrote: »

Zos gutted the tank meta recently

Yeah and all the nerfing that happened didn't help either, kinda hard to help a team when both arms are tied behind your back, generally happened cause everything was blamed on the Tank for issues of the Dungeons and such.

Banana

I got sick of group play so I retired mine.

Rtzon

PUGing as a Tank or Healer is hell when the both DDs do a mere 6k DPS each.

Integral1900

The bit of the title I don’t understand is the word “now” 😆😆😆😆😆

Most tanks don’t know what they are doing and it’s been that way since launch as ZOS leaves the training to YouTube 😆

FangOfTheTwoMoons

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

depravity_influence wrote: »

Frist off, this is not towards all tank half of the ones I've encountered are really decent and good but there is a new trend of tanks just being awful.

Its a chain of events that has something to do how the community sees tanks.

In general all DDs expect tanks to be good and capable of staying alive no matter what. Even the 5k DPS joes out there act like this. They seem to view it as normal given that tanks spend alot of time to improve builds and collect gear, while DDs view themselfes as "play like you want".
Tanks rarely receive appreciation and are the first to be blamed. Be it that we are not able or willing to tank something forever, or DDs dying from random attacks we cannot control. It doesnt matter, we are often blamed for things we cant do anything about.
This causes experienced tanks to step out of the random public into guilds or small communities where they feel treated wit respect and appreciated for the work they do, or at least surrounded by DDs that also put in efford.
What remains are inexperienced tanks, they get discuraged by the expectations so some of them either stop or go the experienced path at some point. Due to the general lack of tanks and long queues this caused DDs to go in as fake tanks.

I play Tank only and over time i seen anything from player, even from experienced ones that rather blame me than think about what they did wrong.

Currently there are only 3 players in the game that can request me to tank anything for them, even if i dont need it.

We are always blamed for the DD's lack of mech comprehension, and it gets into the deeper point I brought up that DD's just want to parse. They don't want to sustain, self heal, purge, or do anything that breaks them out of their rotation, including learn mechs, and as such tanks are thrown in Alkosh and Worm Cult and blamed when the DD's die cuz they don't know what's going on

If the DPS are failing mechs and dying that's one thing, but if the DPS knows the fight well enough the whole point of being a DPS is to stay in your rotation as much as possible. As a support player you SHOULD want them to be dps'ing as much as possible, so long as there are no mechs that break their rotation. The sole purpose of a DPS is to be doing as much damage as possible. Why would you want them to stop to heal/sustain? Are you as a tank gonna make up for the DPS loss that will occur when that happens?

If you're a good Tank your Tanking speaks for itself. Good players can recognize when the Tank is doing their job. Unfortunately it sounds like you ran into some toxic players.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Tank main here...

Here's a quick rundown of reason's I've found as to why the tanks you play with suck:

1. They're fake tanks - look at their HP, it's the first giveaway. If they're below 30k health it's not a "tank" just another squishy dps who may or may not have a taunt on them.

2. DPS player absolutely REFUSE to let new tanks learn their craft. They pull the adds, pull the bosses, run infront of the tank and he's lucky if his "healer" isn't just another dd pulling everything leaving him to his own fate.

3. You WILL get blamed. You wipe, your team wipe especially on harder content. Doesn't matter if you're holding 2 bosses and 3 boss adds already, if another elite add spawn in during the fight and cleave your team mate you can be sure some angry kid somewhere in the world is screaming at his PC screen, blaming you for it.

4. You're a pack mule. Tank sets Suuuuuck, there's like two decent tank sets in the game (Yolna and Ebon) the rest is just you being a pack mule for the DPS players, slapping on medium and light armor on you like there's no tomorrow. Want to tank? How dare you wear something that'll increase the odds of you doing your job as a tank, be a pal and slap on something for the dps. Most people don't wanna pull up with that, it's not fun.

5. You're completely at the mercy of your DPS, wanna know frustration? Que up in a vet dungeon and get two DPS players on your team who barely pull 10k, you sit there for 45 minutes while each trash fight takes FOREVER. Again, who wants that when you can just create a DD and roll the dungeon in 10 minutes yourself...

Is the quality of tanks low? Yes! Is there good reasons for it? Absolutely.
So the next time you find a decent tank in your group, or one who's atleast trying... Don't be bad mannered, you just add to the problem.

#4 is me sooooo much.

I've got no problem with group support, in fact I enjoy it, it's a huge reason why I like tanking.

But theres a difference between group support, and just being expected to wear DPS sets that weaken the tank simply because the DPS dont want to wear it because a sustain set or hitting a synergy takes away from their parsing.

Sorry, but no way am I wearing Alkosh or Worm Cult as a tank. Not gonna feel even a little bit bad about it.

I will wear sets like Grave Guardian, Brands Of Imperium, Ebon, sets like that that boost the survivability of the group. I will wear sets like Akaviri Dragonguard to help with ult buff uptimes. Monster sets like Lord Warden, Symphony Of Blades, and I've been known to toss in a Thurvokun as well. I'll even wear a tanky damage boosting set like Yolna. But I'm tired of being told I'm a "selfish" tank because my group support isnt Alkosh or Worm Cult or Galenwe, or because sometimes I may even wear a set like Leeching to boost my own survivability and help me do my own job.

Look no further than your example #4 a to why I only tank with friends and guildies.

You say you enjoy supporting but won't wear sets that support your group because they arent "tank" sets. AY is a heavy set, should stam dps not wear it? Why would you make a dps deliberately lower their damage because you wont wear worm cult?

In all fairness if you and your group need the survivability then sure use it, but as you progress and become a better player your dps wont need those survivability sets as much and the best thing you could do in that situation is help increase their damage further. If your group is good and you still refuse to support them further by optimizing their dps that could be a little selfish of you.

Umm no I disagree here dps in this game is lazy why would you have a set that just buffs damage you’re setting tanks up to fail. Run that on a hard boss and die cause you’re not in Tank gear. Tanks are the only role that has to wear armor they get little to no benefit from. Healer sets grant bonuses triggered by healing which rewards your team for a thing you would have done anyways, healing the group.

As a tank you have to stack everything, debuff, buff damage with a 95-100% uptime and have a set that does nothing for you just cause DPS with not wear anything to keep them. Tanking is a support role but it’s not a life support role. If your tank has to focus that much on DPS why not just become one.

amm7sb14_ESO

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Tank main here...

Here's a quick rundown of reason's I've found as to why the tanks you play with suck:

1. They're fake tanks - look at their HP, it's the first giveaway. If they're below 30k health it's not a "tank" just another squishy dps who may or may not have a taunt on them.

2. DPS player absolutely REFUSE to let new tanks learn their craft. They pull the adds, pull the bosses, run infront of the tank and he's lucky if his "healer" isn't just another dd pulling everything leaving him to his own fate.

3. You WILL get blamed. You wipe, your team wipe especially on harder content. Doesn't matter if you're holding 2 bosses and 3 boss adds already, if another elite add spawn in during the fight and cleave your team mate you can be sure some angry kid somewhere in the world is screaming at his PC screen, blaming you for it.

4. You're a pack mule. Tank sets Suuuuuck, there's like two decent tank sets in the game (Yolna and Ebon) the rest is just you being a pack mule for the DPS players, slapping on medium and light armor on you like there's no tomorrow. Want to tank? How dare you wear something that'll increase the odds of you doing your job as a tank, be a pal and slap on something for the dps. Most people don't wanna pull up with that, it's not fun.

5. You're completely at the mercy of your DPS, wanna know frustration? Que up in a vet dungeon and get two DPS players on your team who barely pull 10k, you sit there for 45 minutes while each trash fight takes FOREVER. Again, who wants that when you can just create a DD and roll the dungeon in 10 minutes yourself...

Is the quality of tanks low? Yes! Is there good reasons for it? Absolutely.
So the next time you find a decent tank in your group, or one who's atleast trying... Don't be bad mannered, you just add to the problem.

#4 is me sooooo much.

I've got no problem with group support, in fact I enjoy it, it's a huge reason why I like tanking.

But theres a difference between group support, and just being expected to wear DPS sets that weaken the tank simply because the DPS dont want to wear it because a sustain set or hitting a synergy takes away from their parsing.

Sorry, but no way am I wearing Alkosh or Worm Cult as a tank. Not gonna feel even a little bit bad about it.

I will wear sets like Grave Guardian, Brands Of Imperium, Ebon, sets like that that boost the survivability of the group. I will wear sets like Akaviri Dragonguard to help with ult buff uptimes. Monster sets like Lord Warden, Symphony Of Blades, and I've been known to toss in a Thurvokun as well. I'll even wear a tanky damage boosting set like Yolna. But I'm tired of being told I'm a "selfish" tank because my group support isnt Alkosh or Worm Cult or Galenwe, or because sometimes I may even wear a set like Leeching to boost my own survivability and help me do my own job.

Look no further than your example #4 a to why I only tank with friends and guildies.

You say you enjoy supporting but won't wear sets that support your group because they arent "tank" sets. AY is a heavy set, should stam dps not wear it? Why would you make a dps deliberately lower their damage because you wont wear worm cult?

In all fairness if you and your group need the survivability then sure use it, but as you progress and become a better player your dps wont need those survivability sets as much and the best thing you could do in that situation is help increase their damage further. If your group is good and you still refuse to support them further by optimizing their dps that could be a little selfish of you.

Umm no I disagree here dps in this game is lazy why would you have a set that just buffs damage you’re setting tanks up to fail. Run that on a hard boss and die cause you’re not in Tank gear. Tanks are the only role that has to wear armor they get little to no benefit from. Healer sets grant bonuses triggered by healing which rewards your team for a thing you would have done anyways, healing the group.

As a tank you have to stack everything, debuff, buff damage with a 95-100% uptime and have a set that does nothing for you just cause DPS with not wear anything to keep them. Tanking is a support role but it’s not a life support role. If your tank has to focus that much on DPS why not just become one.

And if DPS need that much support in order to deal necessary damage, then maybe its the dps holding the group back, not the tank's choice of support gear.

If DD's need tanks to not tank in order for them to be effective, then the DD's need to rethink their own individual viability.

MissAethe

I have a newer tank I'm working on (an ice-warden build), which is made purely to be a damage sponge and never-die character. I made this character exclusively to be played in a group (I have another DPS/Tank hybrid for solo stuff), so I don't have any real damage focus because I stick purely to taunting the snot out of everything that I can for my DPS to do the killing.

But? I think I have an idea as to why there's tank issues in some cases.

People who have never played traditional tank roles, don't seem to realize the tank's job is to absorb damage, and be the shield to help keep the team alive. Coming from other non-mmorpg games with "tank" roles, the tanks are usually less-mobile damage dealers as well, who can replace a DPS role for the ultimate "Stay Alive Beat Skulls" characters. You're basically making a super DPS with unkillable shields. When you come into ESO, however, and you're not used to this style of tanking where you have to be responsible for protecting people? It can be both overwhelming when it feels like you're not doing much damage, or boring when all you want to do is quickly kill things and that's it.

This of course isn't covering all of the problems tank players have to deal with from other disrespectful people (already covered a lot so there's no need to go through it all again), or people jumping into roles they don't need for time skips (also discussed already), but I honestly do think this is an issue.

Here's a great example some may laugh at: Overwatch. It's the other game I tend to put my time into when I'm not playing ESO. Overwatch style tanks are basically buffed up DPS who have shields (in some cases, not all). You don't need DPS to run a successful team, and if there are more than two tanks on an enemy team? Good luck getting through that (hence why Comp is now locked to only two tanks allowed). Then you come here, to ESO, and the tank role is entirely different. Your DPS output isn't spectacular compared to the actual DPS roles, and your best skills are team buffs and "I won't die even if a meteor hits me" damage absorption.

Even I personally struggled to understand the tank role when I started ESO (I've never played an MMORPG before this one) because it was so different than what I was used to, and I do honestly wonder how many people also hit that roadblock where they see tank as Super DPS and not as Team Support.

mocap

im good at PUG tanking as long as there are no speed run "Flawless Conqueror" idiots, who pool everything before me.

Pink_Pixie

Sometime ago we had a fake tank queue on a pledge. He was using dual wield daggers and a bow. Didn't have a taunt and had far less health than I did. Anyhow, we figured this out and kicked him, quickly. We queued again to find a replacement, and behold, the same fake tank appeared. Not twice, but five times, till we had to put the player on ignore.

However, I feel healers and tanks (the real kind) get the short end of the stick, being blamed for this and that, yet it's always the dps that is the cause. I play dps, and yes, I make mistakes and those mistakes are my own, it's not the fault of the tank or healer.

I very rarely PuG these days, as I have several awesome tanks and healers in my guild, which, for me. Has made doing dungeons more of a pleasure.

On a side note, when we do pug on the odd occasion and get a fake healer, we tend to type in chat how lucky we are to have awesome heals.