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Stamnecro need a nerf

  • Thannazzar
    Thannazzar
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    Rather than screwing over PVE players with PVP related nerfs, can we please just get a fully implemented battle spirit fix to address PVP issues generally.
  • technohic
    technohic
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    Thannazzar wrote: »
    Rather than screwing over PVE players with PVP related nerfs, can we please just get a fully implemented battle spirit fix to address PVP issues generally.

    A defile nerf would not really hurt PVE.
  • BohnT2
    BohnT2
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    krayphysh wrote: »
    Stamcro isn't the best...I have all classes in mag and stam. If you don't like your current setup, create a new one! I'm constantly being killed by nightblades in PVP, but I wouldn't complain about them asking them to be nerfed. If you think a stamcro is OP, make one for yourself and you'll quickly see that they aren't really all that great. My DKs and Templars are far superior to my necros, both stam and mag. It really comes down to how you fine tune your setup... You have to consider racial passives, cp point setup, weapons, jewelry, and armor selection. You need to use the correct traits and make adjustments based on what you need, not what Allcast suggests. Little things make all the difference. Know your racial passives and create your build based on those passives. Don't forget about jump points. If you don't know about that, you are potentially wasting a ton of cp points. :-)

    First of all, you don't use Alcast's builds for PvP they're far from Bis.
    Then the things you list are taken into consideration by everyone in here and become irrelevant because stamnecro has access to major defile and major protection on demand along with other overtuned things.

    If you're actually saying that stamdk and stamplar are better than Stamnecro I'll pleasantly invite you to the Pts for some duels, you'll show up in a stamdk or stamplar, I'll bring a stamnecro.

    No one can look at stamnecro and come to the conclusion it's a balanced class especially when looking at the 100% major defile uptime along with major protection on demand.
  • Nerftheforums
    Nerftheforums
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    krayphysh wrote: »
    Stamcro isn't the best...I have all classes in mag and stam. If you don't like your current setup, create a new one! I'm constantly being killed by nightblades in PVP, but I wouldn't complain about them asking them to be nerfed. If you think a stamcro is OP, make one for yourself and you'll quickly see that they aren't really all that great. My DKs and Templars are far superior to my necros, both stam and mag. It really comes down to how you fine tune your setup... You have to consider racial passives, cp point setup, weapons, jewelry, and armor selection. You need to use the correct traits and make adjustments based on what you need, not what Allcast suggests. Little things make all the difference. Know your racial passives and create your build based on those passives. Don't forget about jump points. If you don't know about that, you are potentially wasting a ton of cp points. :-)

    Alchemist (snb back bar) + new moon (2h nirn maul front) + malubeth + torc of tonal. Full impen.
    Let me know how difficult it is to play necro with such a build, and especially let me know if you'll still die to nbs. Can't remeber a nb killing me on my necro, ngl. But maybe you're right, maybe you just built your necro wrong
    Edited by Nerftheforums on July 27, 2020 11:20AM
  • vestahls
    vestahls
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    Necros are the most buggy class, and you want to nerf them because one beat you in PVP?

    Have you considered, getting gud?
    Edited by vestahls on July 27, 2020 11:29AM
    “He is even worse than a n'wah. He is - may Vivec forgive me for uttering this word - a Hlaalu.”
    luv Abnur
    luv Rigurt
    luv Stibbons

    'ate Ayrenn
    'ate Razum-dar
    'ate Khamira

    simple as
  • West93
    West93
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    How is defile spamming snare bugging blastbones balanced? Stamcro is overtuned way too much, for other classes to catch up ZOS would have to reverse 90% of base game class nerfs over the years.
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    Yeah... Regular skill that can hit like my ultimate, but unlike my ultimate it is AoE, can't be dodged, is cheap as dirt, is ranged, is delayed allowing to line up combo, has chance to apply minor defile on top of major defile - looks pretty balanced, where can I get one? /S
    Say no to Toxic Casuals!
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.


    "Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge
  • Atherakhia
    Atherakhia
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    Atherakhia wrote: »
    I'd agree with that. Make them do disease/apply minor instead seems reas
    nublife01 wrote: »
    technohic wrote: »
    Whenever this thread or any stamcro thread pops up; I have a different opinion. Because I have a stamcro and know how good the defenses are and how good Blastbones is when it works. Yet I dont play it much. Not because I'm not decent with it or some moral stance. It literally just isnt fun for me because its keeping blast bones going every 3 seconds, buffs, and corpse absorbing. It's very sequential.

    Not sure if I'm doing a decent job explaining it, but a nerf to 1 thing probably will make the entire class trash. Left as is, it's on the OP side.

    45% healing reduction spammable is simply too strong. And that is not true. All they have to do is replace it with minor defile and some other damage buff. They could also keep the major defile though have the ability debuff the necro when casted. They could make it only cause major defile under certain circumstances. Or they could simply add a cool down to the ability. There are so many different things they could do to nerf it to make it a more intelligently used ability instead of a major defile spam without destroying the class.

    At this point it should be plainly obvious that the Stamina morph should be minor defile and the mag morph should be minor vuln. I'm really not sure the skill needs to be changed in any other way. It already does a reasonable amount of damage and this change would be fine. The class will likely need more (much more) changed, but it will probably have to wait till a large scale class overhaul which heaven only knows when that will happen.

    "Reasonable amount of damage"........ It does as much damage as ultimates.............. When you compare a regular move to an ultimate you know it's doing too much damage.

    Does similar damage to Sub Assault so if one needs nerf I imagine both do?
  • AelyinESO
    AelyinESO
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    People winy a lot to Nerf Sorcerers, because of PVP and we get a season nerfs on the classes each years that harm a lot PVE content, times to focus in others classes too like StamNecro in PVE being at the top almost all times. Too Strong 0 risks...
    Edited by AelyinESO on July 27, 2020 1:43PM
    NA PC Server - CP810 - Played Since Beta 2014, but left for 4 years, coz games got unbalancing, boring and too much expensive (still?)

    - MagSorc (50) - DPS
    - MagTem (50) - Healer
    - StamDK (50) - Tank
    - StamNecro (50) - DPS
    - StamTem (developing) - DPS
    - MagNecro (developing) - DPS
    - MagWard (developing) - Healer
    - Stamblade (developing) - DPS


    "Stop nerfing Sorcerers please"
    "Stop putting most interesting items inside a lucky Crate costing money"
  • ItsJustHashtag
    ItsJustHashtag
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    Atherakhia wrote: »
    Atherakhia wrote: »
    I'd agree with that. Make them do disease/apply minor instead seems reas
    nublife01 wrote: »
    technohic wrote: »
    Whenever this thread or any stamcro thread pops up; I have a different opinion. Because I have a stamcro and know how good the defenses are and how good Blastbones is when it works. Yet I dont play it much. Not because I'm not decent with it or some moral stance. It literally just isnt fun for me because its keeping blast bones going every 3 seconds, buffs, and corpse absorbing. It's very sequential.

    Not sure if I'm doing a decent job explaining it, but a nerf to 1 thing probably will make the entire class trash. Left as is, it's on the OP side.

    45% healing reduction spammable is simply too strong. And that is not true. All they have to do is replace it with minor defile and some other damage buff. They could also keep the major defile though have the ability debuff the necro when casted. They could make it only cause major defile under certain circumstances. Or they could simply add a cool down to the ability. There are so many different things they could do to nerf it to make it a more intelligently used ability instead of a major defile spam without destroying the class.

    At this point it should be plainly obvious that the Stamina morph should be minor defile and the mag morph should be minor vuln. I'm really not sure the skill needs to be changed in any other way. It already does a reasonable amount of damage and this change would be fine. The class will likely need more (much more) changed, but it will probably have to wait till a large scale class overhaul which heaven only knows when that will happen.

    "Reasonable amount of damage"........ It does as much damage as ultimates.............. When you compare a regular move to an ultimate you know it's doing too much damage.

    Does similar damage to Sub Assault so if one needs nerf I imagine both do?

    Sub assault can be avoided and side stepped. This ability cannot

    Not only that it’s coded as a NPC and will snare through immunity.

  • katorga
    katorga
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    Mayrael wrote: »
    Yeah... Regular skill that can hit like my ultimate, but unlike my ultimate it is AoE, can't be dodged, is cheap as dirt, is ranged, is delayed allowing to line up combo, has chance to apply minor defile on top of major defile - looks pretty balanced, where can I get one? /S

    My view is that the expansion classes were designed as stamina classes from the start. That is a huge, huge advantage. Both necro and warden as better designed for stamina builds than they are for magicka. They class passives are almost all dual use, mag/stam.

    Take defile off BB, so what, the class will still be a monster.

  • BohnT2
    BohnT2
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    katorga wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Yeah... Regular skill that can hit like my ultimate, but unlike my ultimate it is AoE, can't be dodged, is cheap as dirt, is ranged, is delayed allowing to line up combo, has chance to apply minor defile on top of major defile - looks pretty balanced, where can I get one? /S

    My view is that the expansion classes were designed as stamina classes from the start. That is a huge, huge advantage. Both necro and warden as better designed for stamina builds than they are for magicka. They class passives are almost all dual use, mag/stam.

    Take defile off BB, so what, the class will still be a monster.

    Wrong, the classes are flawed no matter if magicka or stamina.
    The only thing putting stam far ahead is the option to use weapon skills to make up for the trash offensive design of those classes:
    Spammable:
    (S) uppercut, s&b, master dw (all with no traveltime)
    (M) force pulse --> trash, elemental weapon --> okayish

    Execute:
    (S) executioner, whirling blades
    (M) nope

    Offensive CC:
    (S) uppercut, reverb, off balance (FG rune defensive wise)
    (M) clench lul

    Cheap Burst ult:
    (S) 2h ult, Dbos
    (M) nope

    This results in magwarden and especially magnecro to have almost no offensive presence outside of 1-2 class skills but they're very far from a well rounded offence.
    On stam you don't have those issues and you're much more flexible.
    To make things even more lopsided stamina still have full access to 2 defensive skill lines something which they shouldn't have because they're already at an advantage due to and dodge, block.
    And ofc stamina necro having access to major defile is one of the biggest reasons why it's overshadowing any other spec rn

    This isn't ment to be a general stam op mag weak statement it's only true for this situation.
  • Atherakhia
    Atherakhia
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    I agree with Bohn, but this is hardly an issue limited to Necro or Warden. DK has similar issues.

    In my opinion, it really comes down to the lack of mag executes and the cost of their ultimates. If destruction staff had an ultimate built into it and a ranged ultimate option were available in the 150-200 range as opposed to the 225-250 range we'd probably see more variety in Mag classes in PvP instead of half being Sorcs, the majority of the rest being Templar or Nightblades, and next to none of the others.

    That said, I find Necromancer in far worse shape than Warden. This doesn't necessarily mean they're weaker as god knows Stamina Necro is quite powerful and outshines all other stam in the game at the moment. But the majority of that is due to Major Defile. I am curious if Necro would still reign supreme if Defile was changed to minor instead of major.

    But there are so many skills for the Necro that just don't work on a mechanical level. Neither Blastbone morph is reliable, but the disparity in overall value in the Stam and Mag morphs is enormous. The tether skills are clunky and unreliable. The DPS one is entirely useless in PvP. Grave Grasp is still never going to be used. Skulls has pathing issues and issues related to the projectile speed. Corpses don't spawn reliably in PvE. Etc. Etc.


  • Machete
    Machete
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    In the right hands, Stamcro is tankier than a DK, hits harder than a Stamden (Current as Stamden is overtuned as well in the current meta. Anything that can have 35k health and has an ability that hits as hard as an ultimate is unnecessary), and can outsustain most other classes. It's less about the damage on their end and more about its impossible to kill them.

    Lemon-Party

    Monarch Wintervine, Stamina DK, AD
    Eiress Wintervine, Stamina Warden, AD
    Aelireed Auntumnvine, Stamina Necromancer, AD
    Sierena Hlaalu, Stamina Templar, AD
    Blou Springwillow, Stamina Sorc, AD
    Taliana Silverthorn, Stamina NB, AD
    Monarch Wíntervine, Stamina DK, EP
    Lily Hlaalu, Stamina NB, EP
    Tankito Fondlini, DK Tank, EP
    Evaii Spellborn, Magicka DK, AD
    Thellion Evaire, Magicka Warden, AD
    Weylenn Aenwee, Magicka Templar, AD
    Valianna Syn, Magicka Sorc, AD
    Aranyus Highren, Magicka NB, AD
  • nublife01
    nublife01
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    BohnT2 wrote: »
    krayphysh wrote: »
    Stamcro isn't the best...I have all classes in mag and stam. If you don't like your current setup, create a new one! I'm constantly being killed by nightblades in PVP, but I wouldn't complain about them asking them to be nerfed. If you think a stamcro is OP, make one for yourself and you'll quickly see that they aren't really all that great. My DKs and Templars are far superior to my necros, both stam and mag. It really comes down to how you fine tune your setup... You have to consider racial passives, cp point setup, weapons, jewelry, and armor selection. You need to use the correct traits and make adjustments based on what you need, not what Allcast suggests. Little things make all the difference. Know your racial passives and create your build based on those passives. Don't forget about jump points. If you don't know about that, you are potentially wasting a ton of cp points. :-)

    First of all, you don't use Alcast's builds for PvP they're far from Bis.
    Then the things you list are taken into consideration by everyone in here and become irrelevant because stamnecro has access to major defile and major protection on demand along with other overtuned things.

    If you're actually saying that stamdk and stamplar are better than Stamnecro I'll pleasantly invite you to the Pts for some duels, you'll show up in a stamdk or stamplar, I'll bring a stamnecro.

    No one can look at stamnecro and come to the conclusion it's a balanced class especially when looking at the 100% major defile uptime along with major protection on demand.

    the fact that you think alcast's pvp builds are bis just means you have no idea what youre talking about lmaooooo

    edit: oh i read that wrong i guess I'm the idiot. i will go in the corner now
    Edited by nublife01 on July 27, 2020 4:40PM
  • Nerftheforums
    Nerftheforums
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    nublife01 wrote: »
    BohnT2 wrote: »
    krayphysh wrote: »
    Stamcro isn't the best...I have all classes in mag and stam. If you don't like your current setup, create a new one! I'm constantly being killed by nightblades in PVP, but I wouldn't complain about them asking them to be nerfed. If you think a stamcro is OP, make one for yourself and you'll quickly see that they aren't really all that great. My DKs and Templars are far superior to my necros, both stam and mag. It really comes down to how you fine tune your setup... You have to consider racial passives, cp point setup, weapons, jewelry, and armor selection. You need to use the correct traits and make adjustments based on what you need, not what Allcast suggests. Little things make all the difference. Know your racial passives and create your build based on those passives. Don't forget about jump points. If you don't know about that, you are potentially wasting a ton of cp points. :-)

    First of all, you don't use Alcast's builds for PvP they're far from Bis.
    Then the things you list are taken into consideration by everyone in here and become irrelevant because stamnecro has access to major defile and major protection on demand along with other overtuned things.

    If you're actually saying that stamdk and stamplar are better than Stamnecro I'll pleasantly invite you to the Pts for some duels, you'll show up in a stamdk or stamplar, I'll bring a stamnecro.

    No one can look at stamnecro and come to the conclusion it's a balanced class especially when looking at the 100% major defile uptime along with major protection on demand.

    the fact that you think alcast's pvp builds are bis just means you have no idea what youre talking about lmaooooo

    edit: oh i read that wrong i guess I'm the idiot. i will go in the corner now
    Edited by Nerftheforums on July 27, 2020 5:22PM
  • Jodynn
    Jodynn
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    I have more trouble with stamDK in a pvp scenario than stamcro..

    But at least stamcro is good in PvE whereas stamDK is trash.

    I don't think stamcro needs a nerf, as annoying as the class is to play.
    Jodynn PC NA
    PvE and PvP MagDK
    The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.
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