I have 3 days to level my Scrying to 10, or my leads disappear

PizzaCat82 · July 2020

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

azjuwelz wrote: »

I wasn't even sure if this was true since there's no timer that you can see and nothing anywhere in game that tells you of a time limit.

The timer on leads starts to display when you get below 7 days if I recall ... so you can see it if you're getting low on days.

But, if you let the lead expire you CAN find the lead again. Therefore, I don't get what the problem is here.

There's a lot of leads in this game I would not want to grind through a second time.

Leads expiring in 30 days was mentioned in several places:

1. The patch notes.
2. In-game help section on Antiquities
3. Antiquities basics guide on ESO News
4. ESO Live

So, I have some difficulty believing players were not aware of it ... and didn't plan ahead for their "time".

You list 4 different places for information on leads but important stuff like this should be smacking the player in the face every time he opens the antiquities section. Its bad design. Players don't even know about the Auger if they run through the tutorial too quickly. Can you imagine going through 10 levels with no way of determining where the escavation site is?

AlnilamE · July 2020

bearbelly wrote: »

Wildberryjack wrote: »

Perfect, go to Coldharbour, the gold lead there can be scryed at I think 7, it gives you 10 per solve and I'm not joking when I said it dropped like crazy. Hit the alchemy nodes in Hollow City, I'd get it about every fifth node, again and again and again. It's called Void-Crystal Anomaly. I have I think 18 of them to place in my house now LOL. It's a conservatory crystal house item.

I *kinda* started with that plan (though I didn't know that the Coldharbour gold lead was so easily repeatable), except I was stymied right away by the dig site being in the far north of Coldharbour, tip-top of the map, where I don't have access yet.
(I had not finished the main quest on any of my characters, yet).

So I'm having to run through the Coldharbour questline, and I assume complete it, before I can dig it up for the first time.

Not a catastrophe by any means--I think I have two or three quests remaining (I think the next quest I do will unlock the Chasm, if I remember correctly)-- but it IS another thing to slow me down, and I only have a few days left before my most coveted gold lead expires. (I am currently only about 50% through Level 7 on Antiquities, and the Brazier of Frozen Flame requires level 10 to scry.)

At least finding out that the Coldharbour gold lead drops easily was a boon, so I can now focus all of my attention there, instead of working on purples and golds in other areas, too.

For northern Coldharbour, sometimes you can't port to a friend there if you haven't done the questline, but said friend can go into the delve to the West of the Orchard and you can port to them there and walk out the door, and voilà! You care in Northern Coldharbour!

Olauron · July 2020

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

azjuwelz wrote: »

I wasn't even sure if this was true since there's no timer that you can see and nothing anywhere in game that tells you of a time limit.

The timer on leads starts to display when you get below 7 days if I recall ... so you can see it if you're getting low on days.

But, if you let the lead expire you CAN find the lead again. Therefore, I don't get what the problem is here.

There's a lot of leads in this game I would not want to grind through a second time.

Leads expiring in 30 days was mentioned in several places:

1. The patch notes.
2. In-game help section on Antiquities
3. Antiquities basics guide on ESO News
4. ESO Live

So, I have some difficulty believing players were not aware of it ... and didn't plan ahead for their "time".

1. Average player will not read patch notes, if he doesn't care about balance changes. And most does not.
2. Why would anyone read help, when everything is clear from the tutorial quest? Should players predict that ZOS will implement an expiration timer for the first time in this game and decide not to show it in the UI (despite the pts feedback)?
3. Why would anyone read external guide, when everything is clear from the tutorial quest? Should players predict that ZOS will implement an expiration timer for the first time in this game and decide not to show it in the UI (despite the pts feedback)?
4. The audience of ESO Live is extremely small compared to player base.

The point is this is just a new skill lines with new collectibles. We don't expect indrik berries expire and we don't need reading help in different places to be sure of it. We don't expect that grave memento will reset our CP and we don't need reading help in different places to confirm memento will not reset our CP. We don't expect that some new skill line can potentially destroy items in our inventories and we don't need reading help in different places to be completely sure of it.
Completely new and unexpected behaviour must be in the UI.

RogueShark · July 2020

Olauron wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

So you’ve had the leads for 27 days already... [snip]

RogueShark wrote: »

You had 30 days to level your scrying to 10.

Nairinhe wrote: »

This. The system is though out well enough - when you get a lead there's plenty of time to decide if you want the item and level skills.

Not everyone has bought Greymoor on launch. Some people simply can't buy everything on launch. Are you saying that in-game system that punished players for not buying a chapter as fast as possible is a good system? Especially when most people, who don't read the fine text in the patch notes, don't even know that leads will disappear, since there is no timer when you get the lead.

Literally said in the post you cherry-picked quoting that I think lead expirations are bad.

HOWEVER, it's manageable. Don't have Greymoor or don't wanna level? Don't grind for leads. Get a lead just by casually playing? You lose nothing by losing the lead because you weren't spending time farming it. Get a lead you really want? Decide if it's now time to buy the chapter and level antiquities. You have 30 dsys. That's one level every 3 days. It's not unreasonable. You can reobtain leads once they're lost and if you aren't trying to grind for a lead without having Greymoor or antiquities leveled then you lose nothing if you let a lead expire that you just happened to get through normal play.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · July 2020

I was level 10 by second day of patch. It's doable, but a pain. I did the grind in Artaeum until I could do purple leads, then I did three leads (green, blue, purple) in every zone, then I went back to Artaeum to finish it off.

If I were to do it again, I would not go back to Artaeum a second time. Once I hit level 7, I would start hunting all the gold mythic leads. Basically two birds with one stone. Get the mythics you are after, and it will help you get all the way to 10.

Tammany · July 2020

Thats how i lost fire lancer.
Didnt have greymore when obtained that siege, "woah sich a weapon, damn nice i have a reciepe" i said
Kept lvling and gainign skills, bought greymore only yesterday, scried frost lancer, tried to find fireone but was not able to... And here we go, leads are suddenly dissapearing within some time >.> Why trhey did not mention that in the lead section, only few have a timer.

Jeremy · July 2020

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

That doesn't seem like a very well thought out system.

Yeah i didn't like the time limit either. It encourages players to have to grind the skill line.

Ryath_Waylander · July 2020

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Wildberryjack wrote: »

Not all gold leads require 10 to scry, do all the ones you can then... I got from 7 to 10 in a few hours scrying the gold lead in Coldharbour over and over. It dropped like crazy from gathering nodes in the zone. What level are you at now?

I'm at lvl 9 and a half. My choices of leads at the moments are green freebies or farming world bosses.

Edit, my bad, I see you said level 9 1/2 sorry. Ugh yeah, the last bit is slow. I sped rhat up by harvesting coldharbour mushrooms. I dont jnow if the droprate survived unnerfed but the gold anomaly did drop a lot for me and can be scried with level 7. Good luck

azjuwelz · July 2020

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

azjuwelz wrote: »

I wasn't even sure if this was true since there's no timer that you can see and nothing anywhere in game that tells you of a time limit.

The timer on leads starts to display when you get below 7 days if I recall ... so you can see it if you're getting low on days.

But, if you let the lead expire you CAN find the lead again. Therefore, I don't get what the problem is here.

There's a lot of leads in this game I would not want to grind through a second time.

Leads expiring in 30 days was mentioned in several places:

1. The patch notes.
2. In-game help section on Antiquities
3. Antiquities basics guide on ESO News
4. ESO Live

So, I have some difficulty believing players were not aware of it ... and didn't plan ahead for their "time".

Leads expiring in 30 days was mentioned in several places:

1. The patch notes.-- Read but couldn't recall
2. In-game help section on Antiquities. -- Never looked at
3. Antiquities basics guide on ESO News.--- probably skimmed
4. ESO Live -- I work; don't watch

So yeah, wasn't sure. But if there's an in-game timer I'm cool.

Jaraal · July 2020

Expiration dates on leads is just a sleazy marketing tool to get you to buy now/play more. They’re in the business to make money, not to provide some altruistic medium of fun and pleasure for the masses. The strategy should surprise no one.

bearbelly wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

The only leads that require Scry 10 are rare. I can think of 2: the war drum and the statue of Boh...th. The rest, level 7. So, my bet is OP can already do them at level 9.

Brazier of Frozen Flame is also Level 10.

But it results in a purple quality furnishing..... go figure.

Taleof2Cities · July 2020

@PizzaCat82; @Olauron; @azjuwelz

0fc0f8747ad6beac074410d4aa8b8905--stephen-fry-quotes-ignorance-is-bliss.jpg

VaranisArano · July 2020

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Or, ZOS could have avoided the whole problem and, you know, NOT designed the system to have leads expire. Then no one has to get bitten in the derriere by losing a lead, ever.

All of this back-and-forth about what players should have done/known about ignores the simple fact that leads expiring provides zero benefit to players. ZOS benefits by selling Chapters and getting players to grind (either to finish a lead or to reacquire it), while players are punished with the threat of having to regrind their leads if they take too long.

I'll put the blame where it belongs: with the Devs designing the system.

Sylvermynx · July 2020

VaranisArano wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Or, ZOS could have avoided the whole problem and, you know, NOT designed the system to have leads expire. Then no one has to get bitten in the derriere by losing a lead, ever.

All of this back-and-forth about what players should have done/known about ignores the simple fact that leads expiring provides zero benefit to players. ZOS benefits by selling Chapters and getting players to grind (either to finish a lead or to reacquire it), while players are punished with the threat of having to regrind their leads if they take too long.

I'll put the blame where it belongs: with the Devs designing the system.

QFT. I'm just ignoring the ones I get. I'm not buying this chapter, and I won't be playing it when I do have it as none of it appeals to me (outside of antiquities - and I'm not at all sure how much of the grind I'll be willing to mess with). I'll deal with getting leads again a year from now. The whole "leads expire" thing is just tacky.

And considering the whole "Indiana Jones" thing in WoW, and how burnt out on that I got in short order.... I wouldn't bet on antiquities going very far for me either.

PizzaCat82 · July 2020

This thread looks to be dying out so I'll just finish it with this.

I made it to lvl 10 with 1 day to spare. It took me around 10 hours of grinidng leads, and doing the freebies over and over again.

It was never an "emergency" or "poor planning" on my part. I got it done.

I don't make these threads for me.

I make these posts when I see a system that could use a ton of improvements.

Achronokey · July 2020

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

This thread looks to be dying out so I'll just finish it with this.

I made it to lvl 10 with 1 day to spare. It took me around 10 hours of grinidng leads, and doing the freebies over and over again.

It was never an "emergency" or "poor planning" on my part. I got it done.

I don't make these threads for me.

I make these posts when I see a system that could use a ton of improvements.

U are playing the wrong game if u expect it to be less time consuming. And when i say time consuming i do not mean encouraging and fun content where u happy to spend more and more time with it, i mean cheap ways to waste ur time via RNG and grind for even more grind.

All MMO's use same tricks to make u invest more time into a game, if by some miracle this would change many players would have no excuse to grind same stuff over and over again.

Just imagine u dont have to complete same dungeon 20 times even in 4 man group to drop exatly wat u need
Just imagine u dont have to be 810cp for vet trials
Just imagine there is no lootboxes i a game and u can get what u want directly, for example i would like much more to spend 20 undaunted keys but to choose what i get instead of 5 keys for random box
Just imagine this game encouraging u to complete dungeons and trials not for grind but for fun, challenging experience

Zenzuki · July 2020

Well.... Get off the forums and start leveling.

Ya had 30 days.

Olauron · July 2020

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

@PizzaCat82; @Olauron; @azjuwelz

Well, I guess this will be your stance when ZOS implement a mythic item that will reduce XP instead of increasing XP for questing and killing without writing it anywhere in the item description. And to those losing XP from pledge with enlightenment you will say "Oh, it's your fault, you should have watched ESO live".
I guess that it will also be your stance when ZOS implement a furniture item that will delete a character from the character pool upon activating without writing it anywhere in the item description. And to those accidentally deleting their characters you will say "Oh, it's your fault, you should have read the fine print in some guide".
Bad design is still bad design.

Lannharr · July 2020

If I log in with another character I don't know which lead I need to scry with my main because the lead has no timer or is not highlighted!

This is another issue that I have already reported through the game feedback feature.

Grey17 · July 2020

What I find frustrating/confounded/amused is that you can leave a NPC in the middle of a quest, his house burning, the enemy on the gates, and you can come back in six months, and help him and nothing has changed.

However, an item that has been under the ground for 100's and 100's of years has to be dug up with 30 days otherwise it disappears into thin air? Just fundamentally wrong isn't it?

This "feature" has been implemented aimed purely at people who haven't purchased the expansion. Get a lead, don't have the expansion, watch the lead "melt" away. Makes people think they are missing out. Solution is..Tada!...Buy the expansion! It's a carrot. Same as dozens and dozens of other "carrots" this game has. That the 30 day timer effects people that already have the expansion is not an issue in ZoS's eyes. It is just collateral damage and something they can ignore as it only effects small percentage of the game population.

MJallday · July 2020

I did 1-10 in about 4 hours . Get digging!

Arunei · July 2020

Zenzuki wrote: »

Well.... Get off the forums and start leveling.

Ya had 30 days.

MJallday wrote: »

I did 1-10 in about 4 hours . Get digging!

You're both missing the main point here. It doesn't matter if it's 30 days, 60 day, 90 days, or any number of days. Why are you defending a system that makes things expire when the only reason it exists is to push more sales? There is, once again, literally NOTHING in the entire game that expires like this. No quests, no potions, no food or drink items, no materials...literally nothing expires. You guys do realize people have other obligations than just ESO, right? Real life can leave people with only a few hours every week to play, and most people don't want to waste their limited play time on a grind, especially when the grind is specifically not meant to be done within a handful of hours or days. I don't understand this mindset of "you had x amount of time" when that's absolutely no excuse. There should be nothing that punishes players for not being able to play (and I count the underhanded Crown Store sales that last only 1-3 days with no mention of them happening anywhere among that).

And another thing to everyone claiming they were able to grind out the skill lines in 1 hour or 4 hours or whatever number they're pulling out of the ether, look at the last post from OP here when they say even at level 9.5 it took them 10 hours of grinding to get to level 10. Please explain to me how you guys are getting from 1 to 10 in a fraction of the time that took. Everyone keeps saying "lol I can do it in this arbitrary amount of time lol" but people just can't seem to understand, for whatever reason, that NOT EVERYONE can just mindlessly grind BS out like that. I got to seven over the course of like 3 days or so and then I had to take a break for like 3 weeks because I'd burned myself out on it so hard. So please, all of you people putting your noses up at others and claiming it can be done in whatever number you want to throw at them, keep in mind that not everyone plays the game like you, and not everyone wants to, or can, do things the same way you do in the same amount of time as you.

Lannharr wrote: »

If I log in with another character I don't know which lead I need to scry with my main because the lead has no timer or is not highlighted!

This is another issue that I have already reported through the game feedback feature.

I really don't get why the timer only becomes visible once you have only 7 days remaining, it should be visible right from the start in the leads section where you can select which ones to scry. The fact that there isn't, and the fact that a majority of players won't even realize leads expire, only adds to the sense that a person really does have to grind grind grind, especially if people have only been coming at it as a side-thing and doing it here and there rather than grinding it to 10 as quick as they can stomach doing it.

If you're on PC there's an addon called Display Leads, and one of the functions is to show you how much time you have remaining for any scryable leads you have.

MrGhosty · July 2020

I can live with the timer, though I agree that a timer is silly. What really annoys me though is that leads for items we cannot get again continue to drop. Either change the items to be farmable and put into a rune box to sell or stop giving me duplicates I can't do anything with.

mystkldrgnb14_ESO · July 2020

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

BRCOURTN wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

You can go find the leads again. Nothing is gone forever.

Except you know, my time.

mmos aren't typically the best activity for people who highly value their time.

Time spent progressing and having fun is not wasted.

This is the opposite of that.

Why it makes it very easy for me to skip doing it.

Because you're right, its stupid grind for time wasting sake. If you don't think its 'fun' enough to do the grind, or the reward isn't enough to make it fun. Then the answer is easy.

Let them expire and never have a second thought about it until and unless you feel differently.

tada.

Thechuckage · July 2020

I can fully agree with the OP, with the caveat that I am happily waiting for my leads to expire. Have not and do not intend to buy the chapter. Mostly due to foul business practices first, followed by the sub-par performance.

As others have pointed out, there is a thing called real life. Plenty of people cannot blow off obligations to play games all day.

Having the expiration seems like it would chase off anyone looking for a more casual treasure hunting experience.

Sometimes it feels as if they dont care about retaining long time customers, but thats none of my concern really.

Kwoung · July 2020

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

I agree with OP. Losing access to leads you legitimately earned due to some arbitrary skill restriction preventing you from hunting the relic is just simply not a pleasant experience. Players shouldnt be penalized for playing the game and leveling the skill normally.

I don't feel like it is a penalty, if you got the lead doing random other stuff, well then it was a freebie you didn't actually put any time and effort into getting. If you went out for the sole purpose of collecting a lead, that you knew you didn't have the skill to unearth, that just seems like bad planning and putting the cart before the horse.

Just my two cents and I am in the same boat, I have about 12 hours left on some high level leads, but I didn't actually go out and camp anything to get them, they just showed up randomly at some point in my log. So I am not overly concerned about it if they fade away and I need to go find them again, if I want that particular item.

PizzaCat82 · July 2020

Kwoung wrote: »

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

I agree with OP. Losing access to leads you legitimately earned due to some arbitrary skill restriction preventing you from hunting the relic is just simply not a pleasant experience. Players shouldnt be penalized for playing the game and leveling the skill normally.

I don't feel like it is a penalty, if you got the lead doing random other stuff, well then it was a freebie you didn't actually put any time and effort into getting. If you went out for the sole purpose of collecting a lead, that you knew you didn't have the skill to unearth, that just seems like bad planning and putting the cart before the horse.

Just my two cents and I am in the same boat, I have about 12 hours left on some high level leads, but I didn't actually go out and camp anything to get them, they just showed up randomly at some point in my log. So I am not overly concerned about it if they fade away and I need to go find them again, if I want that particular item.

You may have only had to kill one dragon, one IC boss, or one dungeon run to get that gold lead.

There's no such thing as leads you didn't put any time and effort into.

Nagastani · July 2020

They "disappear" you say? Really. But... but why? I mean... the mcguffin has been buried under the ground for a very long time... why would it... no longer be buried? Meh whatever. Never cared much for this system and the more I learn about it the less I care

BlueRaven · July 2020

Nagastani wrote: »

They "disappear" you say? Really. But... but why? I mean... the mcguffin has been buried under the ground for a very long time... why would it... no longer be buried? Meh whatever. Never cared much for this system and the more I learn about it the less I care

Maybe because someone else digs it up?

Then you need a new lead to get you to a location before someone else beats you to it.

Linaleah · July 2020

it WOULD have helped if the timer started you know.. the moment you actualy get the lead, instead of when its almost expired. it WOULD have helped if leads were tradable.

Grey17 wrote: »

What I find frustrating/confounded/amused is that you can leave a NPC in the middle of a quest, his house burning, the enemy on the gates, and you can come back in six months, and help him and nothing has changed.

However, an item that has been under the ground for 100's and 100's of years has to be dug up with 30 days otherwise it disappears into thin air? Just fundamentally wrong isn't it?

This "feature" has been implemented aimed purely at people who haven't purchased the expansion. Get a lead, don't have the expansion, watch the lead "melt" away. Makes people think they are missing out. Solution is..Tada!...Buy the expansion! It's a carrot. Same as dozens and dozens of other "carrots" this game has. That the 30 day timer effects people that already have the expansion is not an issue in ZoS's eyes. It is just collateral damage and something they can ignore as it only effects small percentage of the game population.

all.

of.

this.

there is no benefit to the players here. and its not even that its time consuming. its that its time consuming with a time limit thrown in, so instead of being able to work on it at your own pace.. you are encouraged to rush through it.

its arbitrary. and its not even telegraphed well. timer doesn't show in UI until you have only few days left.