Maintenance for the week of October 27:
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – October 29, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – October 29, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – October 29, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – October 29, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – October 29, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – October 29, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
ESO direly need a central auction house ...
-
ZaroktheImmortal✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.
If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they
Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.
With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).
What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).
These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"
The current system enables "market flippers". game.
I mean it is easier for 1 guy with 1 billion gold to sit in a central trader, list all Tempering Alloy by lowest price and Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy.......
Than it is for a guy to check each vendor, travel zone then check all these, Yes they "Can" do it, and Have done it (one guy bought Every Tempering Alloy in a 12 Hour period, let the market panic and price gouge for a while then dumped everything for a profit.
At least disparate locations of traders gives a window where you can strike lucky on a bargain that others have missed or have not reached, but on a central trader it would be gone in a micro second.
How exactly does guild traders prevent this? Someone with all that amount of it could do the same with a guild trader and any with ttc would be able to find it there. It'd still sell up. And besides this doesn't put an argument in favor of guild traders. They could keep traders in locations but let anyone list in specific locations if that were the issue.
There are more than 200 traders in the game. A single person isn't going to be able to sit on more than three or four. TTC often is not current and even if it were one person isn't going to be able to keep tabs on all 200+ traders. Just isn't going to happen.
Oh yes because people who actually use traders totally won't use tamerial trade center and someone couldn't post a lot of stuff below normal value and people wouldn't see it at all right?
I did not start using TTC until about a year ago. I still do not use it very often outside of a general price idea. I had preferred Master Merchant that only gave me information based on the history of my guilds but Zos has made it so it does not update efficiently for server performance. Server performance is another reason why Zos is highly unlikely to go to a central trading system anytime soon. It would make searches significantly larger which would add to the server.
I think most people who take part in guild traders use TTC. TTC is the most popular one. You may not want to use it but does that prevent others from using it? No, it doesn't.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.
If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they
Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.
With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).
What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).
These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"
The current system enables "market flippers". game.
I mean it is easier for 1 guy with 1 billion gold to sit in a central trader, list all Tempering Alloy by lowest price and Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy.......
Than it is for a guy to check each vendor, travel zone then check all these, Yes they "Can" do it, and Have done it (one guy bought Every Tempering Alloy in a 12 Hour period, let the market panic and price gouge for a while then dumped everything for a profit.
At least disparate locations of traders gives a window where you can strike lucky on a bargain that others have missed or have not reached, but on a central trader it would be gone in a micro second.
How exactly does guild traders prevent this? Someone with all that amount of it could do the same with a guild trader and any with ttc would be able to find it there. It'd still sell up. And besides this doesn't put an argument in favor of guild traders. They could keep traders in locations but let anyone list in specific locations if that were the issue.
There are more than 200 traders in the game. A single person isn't going to be able to sit on more than three or four. TTC often is not current and even if it were one person isn't going to be able to keep tabs on all 200+ traders. Just isn't going to happen.
Oh yes because people who actually use traders totally won't use tamerial trade center and someone couldn't post a lot of stuff below normal value and people wouldn't see it at all right?
I did not start using TTC until about a year ago. I still do not use it very often outside of a general price idea. I had preferred Master Merchant that only gave me information based on the history of my guilds but Zos has made it so it does not update efficiently for server performance. Server performance is another reason why Zos is highly unlikely to go to a central trading system anytime soon. It would make searches significantly larger which would add to the server.
I think most people who take part in guild traders use TTC. TTC is the most popular one. You may not want to use it but does that prevent others from using it? No, it doesn't.
I think we should avoid making assumptions because we have no idea how accurate such statements are. Heck, I even said I use it, but I use it to check prices sometimes. Not as much to buy items. So just because someone uses it does not mean they use it like a central trading system.
To the point that was not commented on, server performance is the biggest reason Zos is not likely to consider a central trading system. The significantly larger queries would add to the server load which Zos has been trying to reduce. That is not an opinion, but an actual fact.4 -
ZaroktheImmortal✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.
If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they
Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.
With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).
What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).
These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"
The current system enables "market flippers". game.
I mean it is easier for 1 guy with 1 billion gold to sit in a central trader, list all Tempering Alloy by lowest price and Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy.......
Than it is for a guy to check each vendor, travel zone then check all these, Yes they "Can" do it, and Have done it (one guy bought Every Tempering Alloy in a 12 Hour period, let the market panic and price gouge for a while then dumped everything for a profit.
At least disparate locations of traders gives a window where you can strike lucky on a bargain that others have missed or have not reached, but on a central trader it would be gone in a micro second.
How exactly does guild traders prevent this? Someone with all that amount of it could do the same with a guild trader and any with ttc would be able to find it there. It'd still sell up. And besides this doesn't put an argument in favor of guild traders. They could keep traders in locations but let anyone list in specific locations if that were the issue.
There are more than 200 traders in the game. A single person isn't going to be able to sit on more than three or four. TTC often is not current and even if it were one person isn't going to be able to keep tabs on all 200+ traders. Just isn't going to happen.
Oh yes because people who actually use traders totally won't use tamerial trade center and someone couldn't post a lot of stuff below normal value and people wouldn't see it at all right?
I did not start using TTC until about a year ago. I still do not use it very often outside of a general price idea. I had preferred Master Merchant that only gave me information based on the history of my guilds but Zos has made it so it does not update efficiently for server performance. Server performance is another reason why Zos is highly unlikely to go to a central trading system anytime soon. It would make searches significantly larger which would add to the server.
I think most people who take part in guild traders use TTC. TTC is the most popular one. You may not want to use it but does that prevent others from using it? No, it doesn't.
I think we should avoid making assumptions because we have no idea how accurate such statements are. Heck, I even said I use it, but I use it to check prices sometimes. Not as much to buy items. So just because someone uses it does not mean they use it like a central trading system.
To the point that was not commented on, server performance is the biggest reason Zos is not likely to consider a central trading system. The significantly larger queries would add to the server load which Zos has been trying to reduce. That is not an opinion, but an actual fact.
Fair enough. But most people I know who do any of that use it. I didn't use guild traders until I had it. But it's not like it's not easy enough to access and it is a pretty popular mod so even if some don't have it there would be enough who do to grab it up quickly.Edited by ZaroktheImmortal on June 29, 2020 9:25AM1 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »So yet again - whats the exact proposal to all the active trading guilds out there after proposed, erm, change? Just disband / leave the game or what exactly do you want from it?
Also funny people mention things that zos added despite stating the opposite before, there is a word "add" by the way and not "destroy purpose of existence for like half the guilds because newbies should list/sell their iron ore for 2g/p".
Won't somebody think of the billionaires?
It's a game.
Things change.
Other games (most notably, WoW), in the past, in twisted social experiment style changes, have expected their sorry players to all stop doing things they have got used to doing.
Sometimes things they have got used to doing for just a short, but generally happy, time and sometimes things they have got used to doing for years.
Whereas, this would change things radicially for only a few, mostly super-rich, players.
Most other guild leaders would probably be relieved that they would no longer have to scrabble for a trader every week, perhaps fail and (even if they don't) risk being down gold into the bargain.
At least according to what most of them claim, anyway.
So, it's really not a big deal.
Personally, I would go for a hybrid system, as I have stated repeatedly on threads like this, but still.
1 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lapin_Logic wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.
If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they
Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.
With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).
What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).
These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"
The current system enables "market flippers". Unless you refer to third party resources as a guide it's difficult to know what the average price for an item is. Many players (especially newer ones) end up selling their items beneath market value as a result. So players can run around and target those items then sell them back for significant profit. I know players who make their living on ESO doing this. In short: the current system is a market flipper's dream come true.
In a centralized and free market with a visible price history - the only way for a player to effectively "flip" the market to their advantage would be to monopolize the supply and then artificially raise prices. That would be difficult to pull off - especially long term - which is why I've rarely seen it done.
The only time I've ever seen central auction houses manipulated like that on a MMO was when packs of gold sellers could dominate spawn points for monsters that dropped rare items players had no other way to obtain. And that's not something I can see happening on this game.
Market flippers are not a bad thing by any means. The person who sells the item initially makes bank and the person who flips it makes bank. Market flipping is much more desirable than bot manipulation. Central ACs are very well suited for bot manipulation and the speed that they can operate is significantly more effective and efficient than any of us could come close to.
Flippers are a Cancer, you are ment to be buying an item so you can use it, not so you can make more gold to make more gold to make more gold while doing nothing, and at the expense of other players.
For example, have you ever wondered how you can buy BIS purple jewelry Cheaper than you can craft a Purple Seducer/way of the arena infused Ring?
The market has never Recoverd/Normalised from the price hikes of the systems first release so now a new player can't even craft beginner gear that isn't even that good (then they are with you in a PUG doing no damage)Lapin_Logic wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.
If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they
Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.
With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).
What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).
These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"
The current system enables "market flippers". Unless you refer to third party resources as a guide it's difficult to know what the average price for an item is. Many players (especially newer ones) end up selling their items beneath market value as a result. So players can run around and target those items then sell them back for significant profit. I know players who make their living on ESO doing this. In short: the current system is a market flipper's dream come true.
In a centralized and free market with a visible price history - the only way for a player to effectively "flip" the market to their advantage would be to monopolize the supply and then artificially raise prices. That would be difficult to pull off - especially long term - which is why I've rarely seen it done.
The only time I've ever seen central auction houses manipulated like that on a MMO was when packs of gold sellers could dominate spawn points for monsters that dropped rare items players had no other way to obtain. And that's not something I can see happening on this game.
Market flippers are not a bad thing by any means. The person who sells the item initially makes bank and the person who flips it makes bank. Market flipping is much more desirable than bot manipulation. Central ACs are very well suited for bot manipulation and the speed that they can operate is significantly more effective and efficient than any of us could come close to.
Flippers are a Cancer, you are ment to be buying an item so you can use it, not so you can make more gold to make more gold to make more gold while doing nothing, and at the expense of other players.
For example, have you ever wondered how you can buy BIS purple jewelry Cheaper than you can craft a Purple Seducer/way of the arena infused Ring?
The market has never Recoverd/Normalised from the price hikes of the systems first release so now a new player can't even craft beginner gear that isn't even that good (then they are with you in a PUG doing no damage)
Not really. With a decentralized system people who want to spend their time searching Tamriel for deals and then post them at as higher price are not creating any problems. They are in fact performing a service. The player who is in a smaller trade guild or maybe a PvE guild that gets a trader makes bank and the person who has taken the time to find those deals and post them in a higher trafficked area also earns a return.
That does not cause any problems in the game.
That might be the case if TTC didn't exist, but it does.
...and thank God it does, otherwise you wouldn't even know if anywhere was selling a certain (rarer) thing, let alone for how much.
The flipper, generally, just forces the average buyer (a TTC user) to pay more than they would otherwise have had to for things.
It's possible ZOS themselves pop a few grossly underpriced things on, from time to time, to keep the flippers happily occupied in their favourite pursuit.
However, any flips (genuine, or not) are, pretty much invariably, detrimental to the average buyer.
As they feel obliged to travel to the location of the lower priced item and then (almost always) find it has already gone.
As they were doing other things in the game and relying on TTC's outdated info; not just travelling from trader to trader, like the flipper is, looking for anything cheap.
So, it's an extra journey they wouldn't, otherwise, have had to make and another load screen they had to sit through, for nothing.
Edited by Tigerseye on June 29, 2020 10:44AM0 -
Eifleber✭✭✭✭✭
That's merely assumptions and opinions. The mere fact that complaints about the trading system and suggestions how to improve it pop up a few times every month should at least tell you that a lot of players don' t like the trading system.the guild trader system handled the trading of millions of gold each day.
It works well and players are not going to leave ESO because they do not like the trading system.
Better even: there mere existence of TTC and the fact that every single player I meet in the game knows it and advises it to new players should tell you that the in-game trading function isn't appropriate. Why else is there TTC at all? Why does almost everyone use it? Because the in-game trading function isn't appropriate.
Again: I am not saying a global AH is the solution - but the in-game trading function definitely doesn' t suffice.
There IS a problem, otherwise there wouldn't be a TTC to solve it.
*
Edited by Eifleber on June 29, 2020 11:17AM❆
Playing since dec 2019 | PC EU3 -
Lapin_Logic✭✭✭✭✭Lapin_Logic wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.
If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they
Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.
With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).
What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).
These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"
The current system enables "market flippers". Unless you refer to third party resources as a guide it's difficult to know what the average price for an item is. Many players (especially newer ones) end up selling their items beneath market value as a result. So players can run around and target those items then sell them back for significant profit. I know players who make their living on ESO doing this. In short: the current system is a market flipper's dream come true.
In a centralized and free market with a visible price history - the only way for a player to effectively "flip" the market to their advantage would be to monopolize the supply and then artificially raise prices. That would be difficult to pull off - especially long term - which is why I've rarely seen it done.
The only time I've ever seen central auction houses manipulated like that on a MMO was when packs of gold sellers could dominate spawn points for monsters that dropped rare items players had no other way to obtain. And that's not something I can see happening on this game.
Market flippers are not a bad thing by any means. The person who sells the item initially makes bank and the person who flips it makes bank. Market flipping is much more desirable than bot manipulation. Central ACs are very well suited for bot manipulation and the speed that they can operate is significantly more effective and efficient than any of us could come close to.
Flippers are a Cancer, you are ment to be buying an item so you can use it, not so you can make more gold to make more gold to make more gold while doing nothing, and at the expense of other players.
For example, have you ever wondered how you can buy BIS purple jewelry Cheaper than you can craft a Purple Seducer/way of the arena infused Ring?
The market has never Recoverd/Normalised from the price hikes of the systems first release so now a new player can't even craft beginner gear that isn't even that good (then they are with you in a PUG doing no damage)
searching Tamriel for deals and then post them at as higher price are not creating any problems. They are in fact performing a service.
.
That's like saying someone punching you in the face and charging you money to stop is "Providing a service", people are perfectly capable of traveling and browsing every trader, I used to do it before I even knew about TTC years ago as a new player (get a guildie to port you to all the trader wayshrines).
We don't need "Personal Shoppers" buying all the bargains or generally charitably listed affordable items to move them "To a high traffic area" while "Making bank".
It just sounds like a feeble excuse for being a selfish person, for those wanting to play a stock market game instead of battling the minions of Molag Bal maybe they should try Crypto trading or Virtual stock exchange instead of making everyone else's time in tamriel more difficult while thinking they are some kind of philanthropist.3 -
kaisernick✭✭✭✭✭Ive said ti before and ill say it again, its a horrible idea and no im not in a massive trading guild so im not out to protect my profits.
Aside from what has been mentioned already people who use examples of where it works like WOW and SWTOR i say just look at the social aspect there, you have one city or in Sw case station and its flooded with people while every other planet city ext is a ghost town a central auction house would only make more people cluster in one spot.
Yes this sort of happens now in some citys due to pledges or crafting dalies but it would be much much worse if we had a AH included in those.
The only thing i would agree on is a more refined search system like TTC as someone mentioned while it works well items posted up even a few minuites ago can already be gone if zeni could have a in game system that removes sold items from the search imeditally or within a few minuites of it being sold it would help cut time searching down for items a lot.1 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lapin_Logic wrote: »...while thinking they are some kind of philanthropist.
So many people justifying their selfish (or far worse) actions as "philanthropy", in the real world, too.
In fact, it would seem that, if you dress it up as "philanthropy", you can then get away with doing almost anything you like, to almost anyone.
With the idea that, if most people are bamboozled with the suggestion that someone automatically means well, they are then rendered unable to think that that person could, in fact, be doing something wrong.
Even if they do happen to notice something that seems wrong, they think it must just have been by accident, as the guy's a well known "philanthropist", right?
So, couldn't possibly be doing it on purpose.Edited by Tigerseye on June 29, 2020 10:58AM3 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
That's merely assumptions and opinions. There mere fact that complaints about the trading system and suggestions how to improve it pop up a few times every month should at least tell you that a lot of players don' t like the trading system.the guild trader system handled the trading of millions of gold each day.
It works well and players are not going to leave ESO because they do not like the trading system.
Better even: there mere existence of TTC and the fact that every single player I meet in the game knows it and advises it to new players should tell you that the in-game trading function isn't appropriate. Why else is there TTC at all? Why does almost everyone use it? Because the in-game trading function isn't appropriate.
Again: I am not saying a global AH is the solution - but the in-game trading function definitely doesn' t suffice.
There IS a problem, otherwise there wouldn't be a TTC to solve it.
*
I agree.
Almost certainly the trading system is a contributing factor when it comes to players leaving.
When I leave it will have been one of the factors, for me.
Just one nail in the coffin, but a fairly substantial nail, nonetheless.
Either you are someone who enjoys travelling around, picking up random bargains to resell, or you're not.
If you are not and especially if you are also not a huge seller, but you need to buy specific things from time to time, the trading system is hugely inconvenient.4 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
That's merely assumptions and opinions. There mere fact that complaints about the trading system and suggestions how to improve it pop up a few times every month should at least tell you that a lot of players don' t like the trading system.the guild trader system handled the trading of millions of gold each day.
It works well and players are not going to leave ESO because they do not like the trading system.
Better even: there mere existence of TTC and the fact that every single player I meet in the game knows it and advises it to new players should tell you that the in-game trading function isn't appropriate. Why else is there TTC at all? Why does almost everyone use it? Because the in-game trading function isn't appropriate.
Again: I am not saying a global AH is the solution - but the in-game trading function definitely doesn' t suffice.
There IS a problem, otherwise there wouldn't be a TTC to solve it.
*
This TTC argument doesn't hold - because it is not even part of the trading system, but an external tool to estimate prices. So if something is wrong, it would be live information gain about market trades and TTC just shows listed prices, not actual trades. There is actually a system in game, which offers you live information about trades happening in those guild(s) you are a member of - located in the activities panel of the guild UI. This is real market data, even it is just local to your guilds, but these are actual trades, not just wishfully listed prices - and TTC can just show you those wishful listed prices, not trades.
In EVE pretty much everyone (who is aware of it) uses a market information tool to get prices in other regions - EVE has a regional market system with trading stations pretty much everywhere, but all are strictly local - you won't get wares send to you by mail, you have to pick them up, where they were offered. Despite pretty much everyone using a market information tool in EVE, the market system in a whole is not in doubt, because it offers opportunities for everyone, who is willing to find his market niche, get to know it to the point, that he can establish himself or his corporation as the big player in this niche.
With a global system there wouldn't be any niches for newcomers to get into with new ideas how to trade and make it viable. The game would be dominated by big traders only - well, like it is in EVE in the major trade hub - but EVE does not just have this one big hub fortunately enough, but like in the real world many many places to sell stuff at local conditions and those do not depend on "competitive" prices, but on actually serving local people and their needs - at a good, whilst higher price.
The existence of TTC proves nothing in the context of if the market system itself is flawed or not.Edited by Lysette on June 29, 2020 11:22AM1 -
Eifleber✭✭✭✭✭
I am speaking strictly from a BUYERS perspective.There IS a problem, otherwise there wouldn't be a TTC to solve it.
*
This TTC argument doesn't hold - because it is not even part of the trading system, but an external tool to estimate prices. So if something is wrong, it would be live information gain about market trades and TTC just shows listed prices, not actual trades. There is actually a system in game, which offers you live information about trades happening in those guild(s) you are a member of - located in the activities panel of the guild UI. This is real market data, even it is just local to your guilds, but these are actual trades, not just wishfully listed prices - and TTC can just show you those wishful listed prices, not trades.
The existence of TTC proves nothing in the context of if the market system itself is flawed or not.
Really, I couldn' t care less about what happens behind the screens of the ESO trading minigame. Sorry.
I think you can not expect players to check 200+ stores in 30 provinces to see if the item he/she wants is actually there or for sale at all.
Speaking for myself: if there wasn' t TTC I would hardly buy anything at all. I mean: I have better things to do with my life than staring at 40 loading screens whenever I want to buy that specific Hlaalu chair only to find out no one sells it. Not having TTC would definitely make me reconsider if I really want to continue playing the game - as not being able to buy furniture I want or sets with appropriate traits or stuff for research would really take away from my game enjoyment.
*
Edited by Eifleber on June 29, 2020 11:33AM❆
Playing since dec 2019 | PC EU1 -
aenax✭✭✭Look, I just want something like TTC but inside the game. It doesn't have to show whether it SELLS at that price like MM does, just that it's currently listed at the price and is located at such and such city.
Plenty of people use TTC, including sellers, so it would be helpful to all I think.
People keep their guild traders, you still have to go to the location of the guild trader in order to buy the item (so it's not an auction house), but you can just look it up in game instead of having to rely on add-ons.
I just think it would be a little more fair to the console players.
Plus, easier for me as a seller to look up what other people are listing their stuff for so I can price my own stuff accordingly.
Indeed that would work too, we just need price transparency , with easy access to the market is would be better but this Z team seem to be stupborn, so many aspects are so wrong and outdated (mouse targeting and no target locking --> this is dumb, and interface is there to minize your workload not to maximize it).1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I am speaking strictly form a BUYERS perspective.There IS a problem, otherwise there wouldn't be a TTC to solve it.
*
This TTC argument doesn't hold - because it is not even part of the trading system, but an external tool to estimate prices. So if something is wrong, it would be live information gain about market trades and TTC just shows listed prices, not actual trades. There is actually a system in game, which offers you live information about trades happening in those guild(s) you are a member of - located in the activities panel of the guild UI. This is real market data, even it is just local to your guilds, but these are actual trades, not just wishfully listed prices - and TTC can just show you those wishful listed prices, not trades.
The existence of TTC proves nothing in the context of if the market system itself is flawed or not.
Really, I couldn' t care less about what happens behind the screens of the ESO trading minigame. Sorry.
I think you can not expect players to check 200+ stores in 30 provinces to see if the item he/she wants is actually there or for sale at all.
Speaking for myself: if there wasn' t TTC I would hardly buy anything at all. I mean: have better things to do with my life than staring at all those loading screens. Not having TTC would definitely make me reconsider if I really want to continue playing the game - as not being able to buy furniture I want or sets with appropriate traits or stuff for research would really take away from my game enjoyment.
See, you don't have a global trade system in the real world as well and guess what, you don't scrap off your legs by having to walk too much and for a too long time to get what you want. Why does it work in the real world?- Because you don't have this mindset in the real world, that you have to get everything at the lowest price possible, you just buy it conveniently at the local store at the price where it is offered there - without any market tools or such required - it works in the real world so why not in a virtual world?- Well, it is the mind set which isn't compatible here - feeling entitled to the lowest offer in the market instead to just buy local - like you would in the real world - and go on with whatever you are doing in the game. It is you and your mind set what is causing the issue, not the trading system in a whole.
If you normal buyers would not just look for the cheapest available offer, there would be more diverse offers possible in local shops, because it would be viable for the trader there to make these offers - eventually not at the cheapest possible, but pretty near to it .- the reason why he isn't doing that, is because of player behavior who only want the cheapest offers where it is pretty much always available. If those were satisfied with a decent but not the cheapest offer and would buy locally - like in the real world - prices would adapt to an average and offers for pretty much everything would be available pretty much everywhere as well - just like in the real world - it would work, but the mindset of players is not like in the real world and that is causing the issue - not the trading system.Edited by Lysette on June 29, 2020 11:54AM3 -
Eifleber✭✭✭✭✭
The BIG difference is that if I go to the local supermarket for bread and cheese I KNOW THEY SELL IT.See, you don't have a global trade system in the real world as well and guess what you don't scrap off your legs by having to walk too much and for a too long time to get what you want.
I don' t have to try out 50 other shops.
If I want furniture I go to another shop. I can even call to ask if they have stock and reserve one for me.
So I KNOW THEY SELL IT.
Otherwise I can also FIND stuff and shop and compare prices from behind my PC.
Even order stuff without moving.
Please give me that in ESO.
PS I didn't say anything about lowest prices. My big issue is being able to find anything at all (beyond the basic stuff).
Honestly I don't care about paying 5000 gold more or less for that staff I want or that specific Redoran couch or whatever.
I just don't want to have to travel around the world to find it (if it's for sale at all).
*Edited by Eifleber on June 29, 2020 11:59AM❆
Playing since dec 2019 | PC EU1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
The BIG difference is that if I go to the local supermarket for bread and cheese I KNOW THEY SELL IT.See, you don't have a global trade system in the real world as well and guess what you don't scrap off your legs by having to walk too much and for a too long time to get what you want.
I don' t have to try out 50 other shops.
If I want furniture I go to another shop. I can even call to ask if they have stock and reserve one for me.
So I KNOW THEY SELL IT.
Otherwise I can also FIND stuff and shop and compare prices from behind my PC.
Even order stuff without moving.
Please give me that in ESO.
PS I didn't say anything about lowest prices. My big issue is being able to find anything at all (beyond the basic stuff).
Honesly I don' t care bout paying 5000 gold more or less for that staff I want or that specific Redoran couch or whatever.
*
the local supermarket is selling it because you buy locally - he wouldn't offer it, if you would do the same like in game, going for the cheapest available somewhere.
You would find offers if you would be willing to pay a decent price - traders have to utilize their slots with those things which make them good money, they cannot offer something, what you might want but which doesn't make them enough money or is hard to sell.
If you want something really specific you cannot expect to get it everywhere - and you might not find it in the market at all, because no one is offering at the time being - if you look for rare items you will have to get a little creative - and eventually even talk to people - they might be able to help you or know someone who could help you - a trading guild for example is one of the places where people actually might have this information - but who doesn't want to join a trading guild?Edited by Lysette on June 29, 2020 12:03PM3 -
Onigar✭✭✭Gosh, there seems to be a little energy in some of these posts.
So lets see, when i do shopping I break it down into 2 groups. Main trading centers with 4 or more traders in one place and then all locations.
I do all main trading centers one week and the next week I go round all traders.
I limit my searches to a max of 8 for items I always buy.
Yes it takes time to go round all the stores and even when just main trading centers too but I have 2 screens and am watching something on the other. Sometimes Twitch, other times catching up on a series or even thinking about other non game stuff while listening to music.
I find shopping relaxing
When I want something specific (buy or pricing for sell) I use the TTC website. I agree this or something similar could be introduced by ZOS on top of the trading system but there is no reason for this as it already exists for all players.
ESO is designed with a lightweight vanilla user interface and an extensive exported software interface with the intention of player software developers along with the player base are able to create and shape their own finishes for the user interface.
Lets just leave it as it is. I would rather ZOS spent time on bug fixing and maybe even the replacement to the CP system than spending time on something that really does not need fixing.2 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lapin_Logic wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.
If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they
Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.
With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).
What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).
These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"
The current system enables "market flippers". Unless you refer to third party resources as a guide it's difficult to know what the average price for an item is. Many players (especially newer ones) end up selling their items beneath market value as a result. So players can run around and target those items then sell them back for significant profit. I know players who make their living on ESO doing this. In short: the current system is a market flipper's dream come true.
In a centralized and free market with a visible price history - the only way for a player to effectively "flip" the market to their advantage would be to monopolize the supply and then artificially raise prices. That would be difficult to pull off - especially long term - which is why I've rarely seen it done.
The only time I've ever seen central auction houses manipulated like that on a MMO was when packs of gold sellers could dominate spawn points for monsters that dropped rare items players had no other way to obtain. And that's not something I can see happening on this game.
Market flippers are not a bad thing by any means. The person who sells the item initially makes bank and the person who flips it makes bank. Market flipping is much more desirable than bot manipulation. Central ACs are very well suited for bot manipulation and the speed that they can operate is significantly more effective and efficient than any of us could come close to.
Whether you believe market flippers are a bad thing or not is beside the point. I was responding to a poster who seemed to believe the current system prevented market flippers when it actuality it only encourages and rewards it.
As far as bots "manipulating" a central auction house - those would be very easy to detect.
Of course, they would be easy to detect just as bots performing other activities are so easy to detect. The fact is they run rampant through MMORPGs and they constantly improve o working around new methods to detect them.
How do we know this is a fact, well, how do you think the gold sellers get all that gold, to begin with? Crown Gifting also boosted that gold selling market by the way. So it is simple to suggest it is easy to detect bot activity but that does not reflect reality.
I've never seen bots manipulating a central auction house and I've been playing MMOs for decades. So I"m not sure what games you have been playing where they are running "rampant" on but all I can say is they must have inept developers who simply don't care about cheating running rampant on their games. And if that is the case, then their auction house is probably the least of their problems.
The reason the developers of this game opted not to have a centralized auction house has nothing to do with bots or market flipping or any kind of possible manipulations. They were concerned that the "mega server" would lead to mega deflation. All of these arguments about bots, market flippers and manipulating are misplaced and really have no relevant association with a centralized auction house, at least not one that is competently designed and run.
And yes - anyone who attempted to buy up the market with bots would be easy to detect. That is the reality. ^^
If you say so. . . . .
I also never said the developers of this game designed the current system because of bots. However, you are wrong about the market manipulation statement. One of the reasons they specifically stated for a guild based system was the effect on the price that having everything in one place could have. Granted they commented on how the price of more common items are driven down to worthlessness because everyone keeps posting their items below the previous one. That also works in reverse when given someone with deep pockets can simply purchase all the devalued items and repost them for more. [snip]
Regardless, the guild trading system is here to stay. It is what Zos wanted and it has been proven to work well. Zos knows players will not leave the game because of the trading system so they have no reason to change it.
The guild trader system has already underwent massive changes
Not really. The only change that can be considered massive is that Zos added the traders in the PvE areas whereas they were only in Cyrodiil keeps at launch. Beyond that, there have been tweaks.
Again, the system has been proven to work well even if some want a system that they find simpler to use. Zos has no reason to make such a massive overhaul as is being suggested in this thread. Especially since players are not going to leave a game they actually enjoy because of the trading system.Lapin_Logic wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.
If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they
Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.
With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).
What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).
These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"
The current system enables "market flippers". Unless you refer to third party resources as a guide it's difficult to know what the average price for an item is. Many players (especially newer ones) end up selling their items beneath market value as a result. So players can run around and target those items then sell them back for significant profit. I know players who make their living on ESO doing this. In short: the current system is a market flipper's dream come true.
In a centralized and free market with a visible price history - the only way for a player to effectively "flip" the market to their advantage would be to monopolize the supply and then artificially raise prices. That would be difficult to pull off - especially long term - which is why I've rarely seen it done.
The only time I've ever seen central auction houses manipulated like that on a MMO was when packs of gold sellers could dominate spawn points for monsters that dropped rare items players had no other way to obtain. And that's not something I can see happening on this game.
Market flippers are not a bad thing by any means. The person who sells the item initially makes bank and the person who flips it makes bank. Market flipping is much more desirable than bot manipulation. Central ACs are very well suited for bot manipulation and the speed that they can operate is significantly more effective and efficient than any of us could come close to.
Whether you believe market flippers are a bad thing or not is beside the point. I was responding to a poster who seemed to believe the current system prevented market flippers when it actuality it only encourages and rewards it.
As far as bots "manipulating" a central auction house - those would be very easy to detect.
Of course, they would be easy to detect just as bots performing other activities are so easy to detect. The fact is they run rampant through MMORPGs and they constantly improve o working around new methods to detect them.
How do we know this is a fact, well, how do you think the gold sellers get all that gold, to begin with? Crown Gifting also boosted that gold selling market by the way. So it is simple to suggest it is easy to detect bot activity but that does not reflect reality.
I've never seen bots manipulating a central auction house and I've been playing MMOs for decades. So I"m not sure what games you have been playing where they are running "rampant" on but all I can say is they must have inept developers who simply don't care about cheating running rampant on their games. And if that is the case, then their auction house is probably the least of their problems.
The reason the developers of this game opted not to have a centralized auction house has nothing to do with bots or market flipping or any kind of possible manipulations. They were concerned that the "mega server" would lead to mega deflation. All of these arguments about bots, market flippers and manipulating are misplaced and really have no relevant association with a centralized auction house, at least not one that is competently designed and run.
And yes - anyone who attempted to buy up the market with bots would be easy to detect. That is the reality. ^^
If you say so. . . . .
I also never said the developers of this game designed the current system because of bots. However, you are wrong about the market manipulation statement. One of the reasons they specifically stated for a guild based system was the effect on the price that having everything in one place could have. Granted they commented on how the price of more common items are driven down to worthlessness because everyone keeps posting their items below the previous one. That also works in reverse when given someone with deep pockets can simply purchase all the devalued items and repost them for more. [snip]
Regardless, the guild trading system is here to stay. It is what Zos wanted and it has been proven to work well. Zos knows players will not leave the game because of the trading system so they have no reason to change it.
In respect to your comment about market manipulation - the only way someone with "deep pockets" could effectively inflate the prices of a large mega-server wide auction house would be if he or she sat there buying every item put up for sale all day every day - otherwise prices would stabilize as soon as they stopped buying. So good luck with that, they are going to need it. Odds are they are just going to end up with considerably less deep pockets. But if you would like to tell me on what game with a global auction house this actually happens I'm all ears, or eyes I guess.
This idea generally that a single hub somehow makes a market easier to manipulate is a false one. It's the size of the market and the amount of people participating in it that makes a market more resistant to manipulation - not how many hubs a person has to navigate to use one. And I never remember the developers suggesting inflation was a concern when they opted for a guild store approach rather a global auction house. It was always deflation I saw mentioned.
You seem to underestimate how effective bots perform. They are programs and can and do work all day. Suggesting it is false when bots can work faster and more effective any a hoard of players does not make sense. Especially when these gold farmers have larger pools of gold than most players. After all, they are the ones selling gold to players.
I was not referring to "bots" in that comment. I was referring to "people with deep pockets".
Bots are just programs and/or scripts. And any program or script that was set up to constantly buy up everything that was put up on the auction house would draw attention to itself and risk being caught.
The last thing a "bot" wants is to be out in public view. That increases their likelihood of being caught, and what you are suggesting they do makes that basically assured. Which is why I've never seen it done - and probably why you can't tell me a game where it's being done.
And the guild trade system has changed dramatically over the years. I can't take your argument seriously if you are going to suggest otherwise. And no one uses the guild trader system anyway. They use the Tamriel Trade Centre (or others like it) - which is basically just a global auction house simulator as I said. So the game has already basically adopted a global auction house model that everyone accepts. So I suspect most of the resistance to a global auction house on this game - which has already basically been embraced by the population through the use of third party resources like i said - is from "Market flippers" who make money off those who incorrectly price items because they either don't know about or don't use these tools. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Because otherwise you would see more push back against these addons and internet sites.
Please show the evidence that "no one uses the guild trader system". I think I'm a "one". I mean, I'm playing the game, and selling stuff when I want to. I don't have or use TTC. Many guildmates and friends don't use TTC because of how it can be abused. So, with a good probability that I'm not a singular "one", and avoiding the sweeping generalization about every one or no one, don't I and the others who don't use TTC count? How do you know that "no one uses the guild trader system"?
Why should you be the final arbiter of what constitutes a "correct" price? You are, apparently, advocating fixing prices to what you consider "correct". So if I wanted to dump a bunch of green recipes for 5 gold each, I wouldn't be allowed to do it? If you decide the correct price for a rubedite ingot was 10k each, I wouldn't be allowed to sell mine for 10 gold each? Yes, there are players who would instantly buy my mats and relist them for your "correct" price, but if no one buys the "correctly" priced items, the point of "correctly pricing" items is, what? Unless you can enforce your "correct" prices, people are going to say, basically, "screw you and the horse you rode in on, I'm not paying that."
6 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
That's merely assumptions and opinions. The mere fact that complaints about the trading system and suggestions how to improve it pop up a few times every month should at least tell you that a lot of players don' t like the trading system.the guild trader system handled the trading of millions of gold each day.
It works well and players are not going to leave ESO because they do not like the trading system.
Better even: there mere existence of TTC and the fact that every single player I meet in the game knows it and advises it to new players should tell you that the in-game trading function isn't appropriate. Why else is there TTC at all? Why does almost everyone use it? Because the in-game trading function isn't appropriate.
Again: I am not saying a global AH is the solution - but the in-game trading function definitely doesn' t suffice.
There IS a problem, otherwise there wouldn't be a TTC to solve it.
*
Except the new post that pops up is almost always from a new player and then its always the same fanbois of a central AH that dog pile on and say " Look! See! Everyone hates this trade system!" If people hated it they wouldnt use. They would come up with their own trade system. If it was costing ZOS customers they would change it.2 -
Lapin_Logic✭✭✭✭✭Eifleber wrote;
I think you can not expect players to check 200+ stores in 30 provinces to see if the item he/she wants is actually there or for sale at all.
............................................
Bunkum, In the early days before the revamped trader search was implemented but "Fashion scrolls" was still end game, I would manually scroll through PAGES of Motif listing in EVERY trader just to find 1 specific listing (even though I rarely buy or sell things other than gold mats from writs) and doing so was hard, Nowadays you just type your search filter and get instant results on talking to each trader, the fact as I could find some low priced pages are a testament to having so many traders and leaving it upto those willing to put in shoe leather instead of those who will pay a premium to be lazy, and if it was all in 1 location then we would all have to pay a premium due to wealthy resellers making any profit they can.
As I have stated, ESO has a Trading system, It is not a "Trading Game", it is only there to distribute items to those looking for them, not to grow a "sellers".. egoEdited by Lapin_Logic on June 29, 2020 2:59PM1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It is more than an assumption or opinion as the system has been effective since Zos added the guild traders to the PvE zones.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lapin_Logic wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.
If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they
Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.
With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).
What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).
These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"
The current system enables "market flippers". Unless you refer to third party resources as a guide it's difficult to know what the average price for an item is. Many players (especially newer ones) end up selling their items beneath market value as a result. So players can run around and target those items then sell them back for significant profit. I know players who make their living on ESO doing this. In short: the current system is a market flipper's dream come true.
In a centralized and free market with a visible price history - the only way for a player to effectively "flip" the market to their advantage would be to monopolize the supply and then artificially raise prices. That would be difficult to pull off - especially long term - which is why I've rarely seen it done.
The only time I've ever seen central auction houses manipulated like that on a MMO was when packs of gold sellers could dominate spawn points for monsters that dropped rare items players had no other way to obtain. And that's not something I can see happening on this game.
Market flippers are not a bad thing by any means. The person who sells the item initially makes bank and the person who flips it makes bank. Market flipping is much more desirable than bot manipulation. Central ACs are very well suited for bot manipulation and the speed that they can operate is significantly more effective and efficient than any of us could come close to.
Flippers are a Cancer, you are ment to be buying an item so you can use it, not so you can make more gold to make more gold to make more gold while doing nothing, and at the expense of other players.
For example, have you ever wondered how you can buy BIS purple jewelry Cheaper than you can craft a Purple Seducer/way of the arena infused Ring?
The market has never Recoverd/Normalised from the price hikes of the systems first release so now a new player can't even craft beginner gear that isn't even that good (then they are with you in a PUG doing no damage)
searching Tamriel for deals and then post them at as higher price are not creating any problems. They are in fact performing a service.
.
That's like saying someone punching you in the face and charging you money to stop is "Providing a service", .
The analogy of a person beating someone else to a pulp makes no sense. If the game is that rough for someone they do need to find a different hobby.2 -
Khatou✭✭✭✭I don't need an auction house, for once that's changing, if you want an auction house you go on a game with an auction house, that's not what's missing, I'm starting to think that those who ask for that didn't understand anything at TESO, an auction house like that in game, considering the number of guilds trading it would be a mega display mess.
Can you imagine how many pages there could be for one article? That would be really stupid.
Besides, if you want a sales hotel, you go there: https://eu.tamrieltradecentre.com/pc/Trade?lang=en-US, that's where the coffee is!
2 -
zergbase_ESO✭✭✭✭Just use TTC and search the items. Them go buy it. For selling join a guild or post in zone chat. Simple really. Old style buy simple. ZoS sort of stated NO. To the auction house system. As much as I would love the auction house they simply do not want to spend money or resources on it. Like look at their servers. A reboot last time took 16 hours. Can you imagine them trying to revamp and put an AH in. The server would go down for months.0
-
Nomad1098✭✭✭How many people can join a guild? 500. How many guilds can you be a part of? 5. If we remove you from the roster, you can sell to 2,495 people. WITHOUT A TRADER. That's more than enough people to make money. Additionally, its not even hard to get a guild with a trader and make money. I did it in the first week of switching to pc.1
-
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.
If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they
Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.
With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).
What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).
These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"
The current system enables "market flippers". game.
I mean it is easier for 1 guy with 1 billion gold to sit in a central trader, list all Tempering Alloy by lowest price and Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy.......
Than it is for a guy to check each vendor, travel zone then check all these, Yes they "Can" do it, and Have done it (one guy bought Every Tempering Alloy in a 12 Hour period, let the market panic and price gouge for a while then dumped everything for a profit.
At least disparate locations of traders gives a window where you can strike lucky on a bargain that others have missed or have not reached, but on a central trader it would be gone in a micro second.
How exactly does guild traders prevent this? Someone with all that amount of it could do the same with a guild trader and any with ttc would be able to find it there. It'd still sell up. And besides this doesn't put an argument in favor of guild traders. They could keep traders in locations but let anyone list in specific locations if that were the issue.
There are more than 200 traders in the game. A single person isn't going to be able to sit on more than three or four. TTC often is not current and even if it were one person isn't going to be able to keep tabs on all 200+ traders. Just isn't going to happen.
Oh yes because people who actually use traders totally won't use tamerial trade center and someone couldn't post a lot of stuff below normal value and people wouldn't see it at all right?
You missed the point. TTC is not live and up to date data. It is an approximation of price based not on what something sells for but what it is listed at. It gives an average and on most items one person listing those items well below market value will have little impact. Their prices will be seen as an anomaly and a few lucky players will buy those under priced items fairly quick then relist them at closer to market price.
TTC just tells you what was available and what it was listed at. The only real advantage it offers over those that don't use it is you can go directly to a trader that at least at one time had the item you were looking for. Then again the item you seek could be on a trader that hasn't been updated yet.
Yes the trader system does need some quality of life changes but it doesn't need drastic changes. It is accessible to all players that want to participate despite what people here try to tell you and it keeps the economy running very smooth. And for a lot of players it is a fun part of the game. So much so they would quit if it were removed.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."1 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There is a reason why ESO still has a robust active economy with Commodities selling for prices that do not discourage farming, little to no inflation and pricing that has not raced to the bottom and no one can manipulate the market.Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"8
This discussion has been closed.