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Should there be (are there) inexpensive PVP sets that can be bought with gold from vendor?
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Bakkagami✭✭✭There is no barrier to entry tbh. Solid pvp oriented gear is easy to get through overworld, traders, or dungeons. That doesn't mean you're not going to die almost instantaneously to an experienced player however, but that is a lot more about experience and skill level than it is gear. Doesn't matter what you are geared in if you don't know how to pvp yet. Learning to survive is going to come from practicing and dying A LOT. It's not something you will get into and do ok in. It'll come with time. Plenty of max cp, meta geared pvpers still can't survive on their own.2 -
MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »gatekeeper13 wrote: »So when looking to progress try to figure out what aspect is hindering you. Build? meta? abilities? skill? At a certain point if it feels like you are not improving, one of these factors is limiting you. Maybe there is a set of gear that would give you a slightly better 1% advantage that lets your skill continue progressing. Maybe running a terrible race is limiting how your stats compare against someone elses, so they are always 1% better than you.
Without a vid it is hard for me to help you skill wise, which I guarantee there are problems there. Then of course having 5.2k wd and 7k pen does not mean you should insta kill targets. I have those stats on my build that has kept me alive when outnumbered 15-20+ people in lag. For progressing purposes I would suggest eliminating the Build? and Abilities? by finding a better player than you and trying to run what they run. Problem is, most people that are at the end level can't really stream PvP anymore so it is harder to find that info without directly just asking/talking with people.
There is a disparity between classes for sure, some are just garbage right now due to the meta and how zos has changed them over the years. The bottom tier is generally widely accepted as (mag/stamblade and then stamsorc following) with the top tier as (stamcro by far, followed by stamden/magsorc) However I wouldn't focus on being upset about this aspect since there is not much you can do about it anyways. This wont become a problem till you reach true endgame pvp, where there is nothing else for you to learn/improve on.
I have no problem admitting that there are players better than me. And that tank was a better player. That's not my issue. I just find ridiculous the fact that there are builds which can absorb so much damage. Makes no sense. I play with this build for 4 months and I ve killed 1 on 1 players rank 50, Grand Warlords, I ve killed former Emperors and I have a taste of what dmg my build can do. I am not saying I am a top player or anything like, not even close, I am mediocre at best. But I cannot understand how is it possible for a build to absorb so much dmg and not falling, let's say, to 70-60% instead of staying between 90-80%.
I felt like I was attacking him with bare hands.
Not trying to sound like a ***, cuz it is hard to say l2p when there are many aspects as mentioned before at play here. He could have simply done something like block casted your ult, which would have meant he would take nothing while at the same time healing. And Grand Warlord/emp means nothing anymore, even alot of the times players with emp are still terrible.
Well put it this way, there is an easy answer to why he did not drop like you expected. I suppose I can list off a few that would come to mind since I don't have a clip or video to comment on.- Mitigation (resists+%damage mit.....he could just be one tanky boi and killed you when you ran yourself dry)
- Block counterplay (almost anyone who gets bow ulted immediately blocks)
- simple HPS (outhealed your damage)
- Wings mitigation
This brings up a good point. One of the most overlooked aspects of PVP is how much stamina, magicka or health you and your opponent will have after your initial burst. Not how much you’ll regen, but how much you have left before you regen.
My Templar has a low health pool so if you catch him on his horse or reading a map I’m probably dead. But if I have even a minute chance at playback I can spam shields and heals just as long as an average stamina player who is attacking. Only difference is when they are at zero stamina I’d still have 20-30K magic left and likely an ultimate.
So if you can do, say, 30K damage in a second to wipe most people then more power to you. When dealing with one of those impossible tanks, you’d need to do double or triple that without depleting your own gas tank.
Put it this way, this is my current Live 1vX setup. I have everything as efficiently slotted as I really can(actually I still have impen on my chest/legs which would be swapped to infused dropping crit resist down by 344). This image was taken showing my incombat stats, with fury at max stats to show you what damage I would have during an ult rotation. Note fury could easily be dropped for NMA for 100% uptime at the cost of slightly less burst and sustain. Without 2h berserkers rage resists aswell, so my resists when needed could always increase and remain at cap even under heavy pen pressure. If anything s&b ult on backbar. With enough ult gen to s&b ult every 45 seconds and 2h ult every 50.5 seconds without Bloodspawn Allowing for an ult rotation roughly every 2nd fury stack instead of on the 3rd stack. Note this is also in heavy armor 5/1/1 on 2h sharp maul damage bar.
without any fury stacks on me I sit at 3900 consistently up to 4400 with wd enchant 50% of the time and then climb to the full value with fury procs.
This is with 13870 pen = 5280 maj fracture + 2752 sharp + 2838 cp + ~3000 from 2h Maul
Access to: Major vitality 66% uptime
Minor protection 100% uptime
Aoe Minor Maim 100% uptime
Major Fracture 100% uptime
Major Savagery 100% uptime
Major Fortitude 100% uptime
By no means would I be considered a glass cannon, and It is possible to achieve the same amount of damage output that you are stating while not sacrificing tankiness or survivability. It is hard to measure HPS, so I cant show you that to compare, but I assure you it is rather high and constant without vigor to the point I am considering dropping it. Once again, this is me spending hundreds of hours EVERY pts calculating efficiencies within every change to find the best path for my setup. I do this regardless if I even plan on playing much during the patch, so my notes do not fall behind patch wise.
I'm sure you can see why people at this level find it pure laziness to say there should be an opt out that players can take to reach this level.Edited by MincVinyl on June 8, 2020 8:22PM1 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »gatekeeper13 wrote: »So when looking to progress try to figure out what aspect is hindering you. Build? meta? abilities? skill? At a certain point if it feels like you are not improving, one of these factors is limiting you. Maybe there is a set of gear that would give you a slightly better 1% advantage that lets your skill continue progressing. Maybe running a terrible race is limiting how your stats compare against someone elses, so they are always 1% better than you.
Without a vid it is hard for me to help you skill wise, which I guarantee there are problems there. Then of course having 5.2k wd and 7k pen does not mean you should insta kill targets. I have those stats on my build that has kept me alive when outnumbered 15-20+ people in lag. For progressing purposes I would suggest eliminating the Build? and Abilities? by finding a better player than you and trying to run what they run. Problem is, most people that are at the end level can't really stream PvP anymore so it is harder to find that info without directly just asking/talking with people.
There is a disparity between classes for sure, some are just garbage right now due to the meta and how zos has changed them over the years. The bottom tier is generally widely accepted as (mag/stamblade and then stamsorc following) with the top tier as (stamcro by far, followed by stamden/magsorc) However I wouldn't focus on being upset about this aspect since there is not much you can do about it anyways. This wont become a problem till you reach true endgame pvp, where there is nothing else for you to learn/improve on.
I have no problem admitting that there are players better than me. And that tank was a better player. That's not my issue. I just find ridiculous the fact that there are builds which can absorb so much damage. Makes no sense. I play with this build for 4 months and I ve killed 1 on 1 players rank 50, Grand Warlords, I ve killed former Emperors and I have a taste of what dmg my build can do. I am not saying I am a top player or anything like, not even close, I am mediocre at best. But I cannot understand how is it possible for a build to absorb so much dmg and not falling, let's say, to 70-60% instead of staying between 90-80%.
I felt like I was attacking him with bare hands.
Not trying to sound like a ***, cuz it is hard to say l2p when there are many aspects as mentioned before at play here. He could have simply done something like block casted your ult, which would have meant he would take nothing while at the same time healing. And Grand Warlord/emp means nothing anymore, even alot of the times players with emp are still terrible.
Well put it this way, there is an easy answer to why he did not drop like you expected. I suppose I can list off a few that would come to mind since I don't have a clip or video to comment on.- Mitigation (resists+%damage mit.....he could just be one tanky boi and killed you when you ran yourself dry)
- Block counterplay (almost anyone who gets bow ulted immediately blocks)
- simple HPS (outhealed your damage)
- Wings mitigation
This brings up a good point. One of the most overlooked aspects of PVP is how much stamina, magicka or health you and your opponent will have after your initial burst. Not how much you’ll regen, but how much you have left before you regen.
My Templar has a low health pool so if you catch him on his horse or reading a map I’m probably dead. But if I have even a minute chance at playback I can spam shields and heals just as long as an average stamina player who is attacking. Only difference is when they are at zero stamina I’d still have 20-30K magic left and likely an ultimate.
So if you can do, say, 30K damage in a second to wipe most people then more power to you. When dealing with one of those impossible tanks, you’d need to do double or triple that without depleting your own gas tank.
Put it this way, this is my current Live 1vX setup. I have everything as efficiently slotted as I really can(actually I still have impen on my chest/legs which would be swapped to infused dropping crit resist down by 344). This image was taken showing my incombat stats, with fury at max stats to show you what damage I would have during an ult rotation. Note fury could easily be dropped for NMA for 100% uptime at the cost of slightly less burst and sustain. Without 2h berserkers rage resists aswell, so my resists when needed could always increase and remain at cap even under heavy pen pressure. If anything s&b ult on backbar. With enough ult gen to s&b ult every 45 seconds and 2h ult every 50.5 seconds without Bloodspawn Allowing for an ult rotation roughly every 2nd fury stack instead of on the 3rd stack. Note this is also in heavy armor 5/1/1 on 2h sharp maul damage bar.
This is with 13870 pen = 5280 maj fracture + 2752 sharp + 2838 cp + ~3000 from 2h Maul
Access to: Major vitality 66% uptime
Minor protection 100% uptime
Aoe Minor Maim 100% uptime
Major Fracture 100% uptime
Major Savagery 100% uptime
Major Fortitude 100% uptime
By no means would I be considered a glass cannon, and It is possible to achieve the same amount of damage output that you are stating while not sacrificing tankiness or survivability. It is hard to measure HPS, so I cant show you that to compare, but I assure you it is rather high and constant without vigor to the point I am considering dropping it. Once again, this is me spending hundreds of hours EVERY pts calculating efficiencies within every change to find the best path for my setup. I do this regardless if I even plan on playing much during the patch, so my notes do not fall behind patch wise.
I'm sure you can see why people at this level find it pure laziness to say there should be an opt out that players can take to reach this level.
I 100% agree with you. I urged someone a few posts back to do a full respeck every 3 months for this exact reason. We don’t have as many tools as PC - PTS being the biggest one for this discussion - but what you said is exactly what I was talking about.
Let me use a less fancy analogy.
If you put me in a NASCAR it would go exactly zero MPH because I wouldn’t even know how to start it.
If you put a champion NASCAR driver in a NASCAR with no pit crew you’d get reasonably good results up until you hit a wall ... figuratively.
If you put a champion NASCAR driver in a NASCAR with a top level pit crew you’ll likely get championship results.
What you are doing is the 3rd part. What the OP wants is the first part.0 -
MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »gatekeeper13 wrote: »So when looking to progress try to figure out what aspect is hindering you. Build? meta? abilities? skill? At a certain point if it feels like you are not improving, one of these factors is limiting you. Maybe there is a set of gear that would give you a slightly better 1% advantage that lets your skill continue progressing. Maybe running a terrible race is limiting how your stats compare against someone elses, so they are always 1% better than you.
Without a vid it is hard for me to help you skill wise, which I guarantee there are problems there. Then of course having 5.2k wd and 7k pen does not mean you should insta kill targets. I have those stats on my build that has kept me alive when outnumbered 15-20+ people in lag. For progressing purposes I would suggest eliminating the Build? and Abilities? by finding a better player than you and trying to run what they run. Problem is, most people that are at the end level can't really stream PvP anymore so it is harder to find that info without directly just asking/talking with people.
There is a disparity between classes for sure, some are just garbage right now due to the meta and how zos has changed them over the years. The bottom tier is generally widely accepted as (mag/stamblade and then stamsorc following) with the top tier as (stamcro by far, followed by stamden/magsorc) However I wouldn't focus on being upset about this aspect since there is not much you can do about it anyways. This wont become a problem till you reach true endgame pvp, where there is nothing else for you to learn/improve on.
I have no problem admitting that there are players better than me. And that tank was a better player. That's not my issue. I just find ridiculous the fact that there are builds which can absorb so much damage. Makes no sense. I play with this build for 4 months and I ve killed 1 on 1 players rank 50, Grand Warlords, I ve killed former Emperors and I have a taste of what dmg my build can do. I am not saying I am a top player or anything like, not even close, I am mediocre at best. But I cannot understand how is it possible for a build to absorb so much dmg and not falling, let's say, to 70-60% instead of staying between 90-80%.
I felt like I was attacking him with bare hands.
Not trying to sound like a ***, cuz it is hard to say l2p when there are many aspects as mentioned before at play here. He could have simply done something like block casted your ult, which would have meant he would take nothing while at the same time healing. And Grand Warlord/emp means nothing anymore, even alot of the times players with emp are still terrible.
Well put it this way, there is an easy answer to why he did not drop like you expected. I suppose I can list off a few that would come to mind since I don't have a clip or video to comment on.- Mitigation (resists+%damage mit.....he could just be one tanky boi and killed you when you ran yourself dry)
- Block counterplay (almost anyone who gets bow ulted immediately blocks)
- simple HPS (outhealed your damage)
- Wings mitigation
This brings up a good point. One of the most overlooked aspects of PVP is how much stamina, magicka or health you and your opponent will have after your initial burst. Not how much you’ll regen, but how much you have left before you regen.
My Templar has a low health pool so if you catch him on his horse or reading a map I’m probably dead. But if I have even a minute chance at playback I can spam shields and heals just as long as an average stamina player who is attacking. Only difference is when they are at zero stamina I’d still have 20-30K magic left and likely an ultimate.
So if you can do, say, 30K damage in a second to wipe most people then more power to you. When dealing with one of those impossible tanks, you’d need to do double or triple that without depleting your own gas tank.
Put it this way, this is my current Live 1vX setup. I have everything as efficiently slotted as I really can(actually I still have impen on my chest/legs which would be swapped to infused dropping crit resist down by 344). This image was taken showing my incombat stats, with fury at max stats to show you what damage I would have during an ult rotation. Note fury could easily be dropped for NMA for 100% uptime at the cost of slightly less burst and sustain. Without 2h berserkers rage resists aswell, so my resists when needed could always increase and remain at cap even under heavy pen pressure. If anything s&b ult on backbar. With enough ult gen to s&b ult every 45 seconds and 2h ult every 50.5 seconds without Bloodspawn Allowing for an ult rotation roughly every 2nd fury stack instead of on the 3rd stack. Note this is also in heavy armor 5/1/1 on 2h sharp maul damage bar.
This is with 13870 pen = 5280 maj fracture + 2752 sharp + 2838 cp + ~3000 from 2h Maul
Access to: Major vitality 66% uptime
Minor protection 100% uptime
Aoe Minor Maim 100% uptime
Major Fracture 100% uptime
Major Savagery 100% uptime
Major Fortitude 100% uptime
By no means would I be considered a glass cannon, and It is possible to achieve the same amount of damage output that you are stating while not sacrificing tankiness or survivability. It is hard to measure HPS, so I cant show you that to compare, but I assure you it is rather high and constant without vigor to the point I am considering dropping it. Once again, this is me spending hundreds of hours EVERY pts calculating efficiencies within every change to find the best path for my setup. I do this regardless if I even plan on playing much during the patch, so my notes do not fall behind patch wise.
I'm sure you can see why people at this level find it pure laziness to say there should be an opt out that players can take to reach this level.
I 100% agree with you. I urged someone a few posts back to do a full respeck every 3 months for this exact reason. We don’t have as many tools as PC - PTS being the biggest one for this discussion - but what you said is exactly what I was talking about.
Let me use a less fancy analogy.
If you put me in a NASCAR it would go exactly zero MPH because I wouldn’t even know how to start it.
If you put a champion NASCAR driver in a NASCAR with no pit crew you’d get reasonably good results up until you hit a wall ... figuratively.
If you put a champion NASCAR driver in a NASCAR with a top level pit crew you’ll likely get championship results.
What you are doing is the 3rd part. What the OP wants is the first part.
Yeah that analogy works, except I would say there is another layer which is the engineering portion of testing and analyzing data for efficiency.1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »But how does a new player know to build a set using these to play pvp? That isn't something a player will figure out until 6-12 months playing.
When you start you are broke, have no cp points, buying gear in the "correct" traits is too expensive, you don't have any crafting lines leveled up. You probably aren't in a guild. You are trying to figure out the game, may have hit level 15 and are learning how to bar swap. Most of the map has not been uncovered. You don't have TTC installed and can't go shopping effectively. You are running random dungeons, not "farming" for a particular set.
Most of the skills you picked are the wrong morph and don't work together. You may have leveld S+B for a dps role. You don't have any assault skill line.
Most of these issues don't get rectified until many months later. In that time, the new player has tried BGs a few times, gets instantly ganked, only to be t-bagged by the opposing player.
I think you underestimate just how bad the experience is for new players.
Why not just make a set that can be purchased immediately, or even better mail them a set after they complete their first BG, with a retainer that says "Use these next time, I think you will do much better."
Bud, it's an MMO. You are going to have to work a bit to gear your character exactly how you want. Plenty of games out there that start everyone on a level playing field. This aint one of them. But again, this is much more a reflection on skill disparity rather than gear disparity.
Other options. Join a guild. Most crafters I know (myself included) have more mats than they know what to do with and would be more than happy to make you a crafted set for next to nothing. You will still get your butt kicked out of the gate if you are new to PVP, but it might make you feel better about it.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »ImmortalCX wrote: »ItsJustHashtag wrote: »You can get good enough sets
New Moon Acolyte Clever Alchemist are good examples of a crafted set that would work well in PvP. They have good damage stats for mag or stam builds and CA has some added health. Even if someone does not have the traits researched they can get a guildmate to craft it for them. Use that gold to buy the materials.
But how does a new player know to build a set using these to play pvp? That isn't something a player will figure out until 6-12 months playing.
When you start you are broke, have no cp points, buying gear in the "correct" traits is too expensive, you don't have any crafting lines leveled up. You probably aren't in a guild. You are trying to figure out the game, may have hit level 15 and are learning how to bar swap. Most of the map has not been uncovered. You don't have TTC installed and can't go shopping effectively. You are running random dungeons, not "farming" for a particular set.
Most of the skills you picked are the wrong morph and don't work together. You may have leveld S+B for a dps role. You don't have any assault skill line.
Most of these issues don't get rectified until many months later. In that time, the new player has tried BGs a few times, gets instantly ganked, only to be t-bagged by the opposing player.
I think you underestimate just how bad the experience is for new players.
Why not just make a set that can be purchased immediately, or even better mail them a set after they complete their first BG, with a retainer that says "Use these next time, I think you will do much better."
Somewhere you messed up the quote. Probably with editing out part of what you quoted. Otherwise, no one sees what you stated.
A new player has a lot to learn in any MMORPG. That is just life and they either deal with it or they do not. If it is the latter then that is their problem and loss as the information is out there and easily obtained for those who choose to seek it.
A player who is really interested in the game and interested in improving will take the smart routes of actually searching for knowledge of the game via the internet and learning from guildmates. Coming to the forums with questions is also fine. And no, I do not underestimate the challenge for new players. I have seen players who were very unskilled, did very low DPS. I have seen players actually not interested in learning more but also some that did not bother to seek information. Both are a choice.
You can buy gear for gold. Many of the sets we have mentioned can be purchased with gold by either paying someone to craft it or buying BoE gear at guild traders. It is so easy to get geared up to a decent degree that it makes no sense to have a vendor selling gear worse that crafted gear.
In the end, we gave you suggestions for sets that can be obtained easily and will do well. I do not understand why you are arguing with us about it.Edited by idk on June 8, 2020 9:08PM1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »gatekeeper13 wrote: »So when looking to progress try to figure out what aspect is hindering you. Build? meta? abilities? skill? At a certain point if it feels like you are not improving, one of these factors is limiting you. Maybe there is a set of gear that would give you a slightly better 1% advantage that lets your skill continue progressing. Maybe running a terrible race is limiting how your stats compare against someone elses, so they are always 1% better than you.
Without a vid it is hard for me to help you skill wise, which I guarantee there are problems there. Then of course having 5.2k wd and 7k pen does not mean you should insta kill targets. I have those stats on my build that has kept me alive when outnumbered 15-20+ people in lag. For progressing purposes I would suggest eliminating the Build? and Abilities? by finding a better player than you and trying to run what they run. Problem is, most people that are at the end level can't really stream PvP anymore so it is harder to find that info without directly just asking/talking with people.
There is a disparity between classes for sure, some are just garbage right now due to the meta and how zos has changed them over the years. The bottom tier is generally widely accepted as (mag/stamblade and then stamsorc following) with the top tier as (stamcro by far, followed by stamden/magsorc) However I wouldn't focus on being upset about this aspect since there is not much you can do about it anyways. This wont become a problem till you reach true endgame pvp, where there is nothing else for you to learn/improve on.
I have no problem admitting that there are players better than me. And that tank was a better player. That's not my issue. I just find ridiculous the fact that there are builds which can absorb so much damage. Makes no sense. I play with this build for 4 months and I ve killed 1 on 1 players rank 50, Grand Warlords, I ve killed former Emperors and I have a taste of what dmg my build can do. I am not saying I am a top player or anything like, not even close, I am mediocre at best. But I cannot understand how is it possible for a build to absorb so much dmg and not falling, let's say, to 70-60% instead of staying between 90-80%.
I felt like I was attacking him with bare hands.
Not trying to sound like a ***, cuz it is hard to say l2p when there are many aspects as mentioned before at play here. He could have simply done something like block casted your ult, which would have meant he would take nothing while at the same time healing. And Grand Warlord/emp means nothing anymore, even alot of the times players with emp are still terrible.
Well put it this way, there is an easy answer to why he did not drop like you expected. I suppose I can list off a few that would come to mind since I don't have a clip or video to comment on.- Mitigation (resists+%damage mit.....he could just be one tanky boi and killed you when you ran yourself dry)
- Block counterplay (almost anyone who gets bow ulted immediately blocks)
- simple HPS (outhealed your damage)
- Wings mitigation
This brings up a good point. One of the most overlooked aspects of PVP is how much stamina, magicka or health you and your opponent will have after your initial burst. Not how much you’ll regen, but how much you have left before you regen.
My Templar has a low health pool so if you catch him on his horse or reading a map I’m probably dead. But if I have even a minute chance at playback I can spam shields and heals just as long as an average stamina player who is attacking. Only difference is when they are at zero stamina I’d still have 20-30K magic left and likely an ultimate.
So if you can do, say, 30K damage in a second to wipe most people then more power to you. When dealing with one of those impossible tanks, you’d need to do double or triple that without depleting your own gas tank.
Put it this way, this is my current Live 1vX setup. I have everything as efficiently slotted as I really can(actually I still have impen on my chest/legs which would be swapped to infused dropping crit resist down by 344). This image was taken showing my incombat stats, with fury at max stats to show you what damage I would have during an ult rotation. Note fury could easily be dropped for NMA for 100% uptime at the cost of slightly less burst and sustain. Without 2h berserkers rage resists aswell, so my resists when needed could always increase and remain at cap even under heavy pen pressure. If anything s&b ult on backbar. With enough ult gen to s&b ult every 45 seconds and 2h ult every 50.5 seconds without Bloodspawn Allowing for an ult rotation roughly every 2nd fury stack instead of on the 3rd stack. Note this is also in heavy armor 5/1/1 on 2h sharp maul damage bar.
This is with 13870 pen = 5280 maj fracture + 2752 sharp + 2838 cp + ~3000 from 2h Maul
Access to: Major vitality 66% uptime
Minor protection 100% uptime
Aoe Minor Maim 100% uptime
Major Fracture 100% uptime
Major Savagery 100% uptime
Major Fortitude 100% uptime
By no means would I be considered a glass cannon, and It is possible to achieve the same amount of damage output that you are stating while not sacrificing tankiness or survivability. It is hard to measure HPS, so I cant show you that to compare, but I assure you it is rather high and constant without vigor to the point I am considering dropping it. Once again, this is me spending hundreds of hours EVERY pts calculating efficiencies within every change to find the best path for my setup. I do this regardless if I even plan on playing much during the patch, so my notes do not fall behind patch wise.
I'm sure you can see why people at this level find it pure laziness to say there should be an opt out that players can take to reach this level.
I 100% agree with you. I urged someone a few posts back to do a full respeck every 3 months for this exact reason. We don’t have as many tools as PC - PTS being the biggest one for this discussion - but what you said is exactly what I was talking about.
Let me use a less fancy analogy.
If you put me in a NASCAR it would go exactly zero MPH because I wouldn’t even know how to start it.
If you put a champion NASCAR driver in a NASCAR with no pit crew you’d get reasonably good results up until you hit a wall ... figuratively.
If you put a champion NASCAR driver in a NASCAR with a top level pit crew you’ll likely get championship results.
What you are doing is the 3rd part. What the OP wants is the first part.
Great analogy. But also, that champion drive and the pit crew/engineers took the time to learn what they needed to learn which included find out how the gear worked, how to obtain it, and how to assemble it. They learned what to do. They worked for it.
Ofc, this is player skill, actual skills, and gear used.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I feel like I tell this story fairly frequently when the topic of PVP gear/builds comes up, but here goes:
Remember the Blazeplar?
Pre-Morrowind, these were THE cancer build everyone of the forums complained about. They could genuinely 1vX, surviving and destroying groups with very little effort.
And to me, being a newer PVPer, it looked like a pretty easy build. Templar. Green Pact, Plague Doctor, Troll King for gear. Blazing Shield for defense and killing. Easy to get and use. I got my Blazeplar set up and jumped into Cyrodiil.
Can you guess how that worked out for me?
I sucked.
Thing is, I had the build and gear of a Blazeplar, but none of the experience of the successful Blazeplars everyone complained about. So I died in no time flat without killing anybody.
It ain't the gear. It's the experience (or lack thereof) of the player wearing it.4 -
Bradyfjord✭✭✭✭✭My first conscious effort to make a pvp setup for my dk was back when Ravager was awesome. I paired it with 7th Legion, and some Agility.
I get a lot of mileage from Shacklebreaker.
My preference changes on what else to run with it. Pvp is far more about what a player is good at than what ZOS has planned.
I alternate between going with 2h or 1h/shield on main bar, depending on my feeling that day. Bow on back of course.0 -
Dzadzey✭✭✭The solution is simple. Stay away from PvP. Tried it. Hated it. Too much like real life to be enjoyable.0
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khajiitNPC✭✭✭✭✭OP, there’s plenty of crafted sets you can utilize to be successful in PvP. The most common sets I craft for noobs are the Ancient Dragonguard, Shacklebreaker, and 2 pieces of something else if they don’t have monster sets. These sets are used mostly for survival and group play, no they aren’t best in slot, but they work especially well for survival. Even with the changes to how impen works, if you’re a noob go full impen, run with a group until you get a hang of what you’re doing. I wouldn’t recommend solo unless you really know what you’re doing.0
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THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »I feel like I tell this story fairly frequently when the topic of PVP gear/builds comes up, but here goes:
Remember the Blazeplar?
Pre-Morrowind, these were THE cancer build everyone of the forums complained about. They could genuinely 1vX, surviving and destroying groups with very little effort.
And to me, being a newer PVPer, it looked like a pretty easy build. Templar. Green Pact, Plague Doctor, Troll King for gear. Blazing Shield for defense and killing. Easy to get and use. I got my Blazeplar set up and jumped into Cyrodiil.
Can you guess how that worked out for me?
I sucked.
Thing is, I had the build and gear of a Blazeplar, but none of the experience of the successful Blazeplars everyone complained about. So I died in no time flat without killing anybody.
It ain't the gear. It's the experience (or lack thereof) of the player wearing it.
I spent like 500K gold to turn my main into a Blazeplar. Lasted like 3 days. 🤣1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I feel like I tell this story fairly frequently when the topic of PVP gear/builds comes up, but here goes:
Remember the Blazeplar?
Pre-Morrowind, these were THE cancer build everyone of the forums complained about. They could genuinely 1vX, surviving and destroying groups with very little effort.
And to me, being a newer PVPer, it looked like a pretty easy build. Templar. Green Pact, Plague Doctor, Troll King for gear. Blazing Shield for defense and killing. Easy to get and use. I got my Blazeplar set up and jumped into Cyrodiil.
Can you guess how that worked out for me?
I sucked.
Thing is, I had the build and gear of a Blazeplar, but none of the experience of the successful Blazeplars everyone complained about. So I died in no time flat without killing anybody.
It ain't the gear. It's the experience (or lack thereof) of the player wearing it.
I spent like 500K gold to turn my main into a Blazeplar. Lasted like 3 days. 🤣
Heh, glad I'm not the only one!
1 -
MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I feel like I tell this story fairly frequently when the topic of PVP gear/builds comes up, but here goes:
Remember the Blazeplar?
Pre-Morrowind, these were THE cancer build everyone of the forums complained about. They could genuinely 1vX, surviving and destroying groups with very little effort.
And to me, being a newer PVPer, it looked like a pretty easy build. Templar. Green Pact, Plague Doctor, Troll King for gear. Blazing Shield for defense and killing. Easy to get and use. I got my Blazeplar set up and jumped into Cyrodiil.
Can you guess how that worked out for me?
I sucked.
Thing is, I had the build and gear of a Blazeplar, but none of the experience of the successful Blazeplars everyone complained about. So I died in no time flat without killing anybody.
It ain't the gear. It's the experience (or lack thereof) of the player wearing it.
I spent like 500K gold to turn my main into a Blazeplar. Lasted like 3 days. 🤣
Heh, glad I'm not the only one!
This is like the same thing that happened to shield sorcs. Everyone thought that they were OP because you would see a sorc fight 15-20 people and survive while still killing people. Then when most people tried to run them and wonder why shields do not last longer.1 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I thought Spriggans/Spinners dropped in overland?
Is Impregnable armor suddenly very rare and expensive?#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom0 -
Spizzie✭✭✭There is a lot to tackle here but I'll just start with these:
1. You can't kill a dedicated tank 1v1 as a DPS because those people have built themselves specifically to tank multiple 810 CP damage dealers simultaneously. You should also expect them to not be able to kill you at all, because they're walking around with 1900 weapon damage and 20K stamina with no crit, pen, etc. You're literally doing exactly what they want you to do if you're just exhausting resources on them in an attempt to kill them like you would a normal player. You've essentially just become a human dungeon boss; unable to break the taunt and fight anyone else. Can you imagine how horribly ineffective tanks would be in a dungeon if the boss could willingly ignore the taunt? The boss would be killing DPS and healers while the tank just slaps it with light attacks and whatever debuffs it has. You're more than a dungeon boss, bud. Don't let anyone make you feel otherwise.
2. Open World PvP in ESO does not have a broad ranking system like most PvP environments in other games (Overwatch, Destiny, SMITE, etc.). There is a matchmade ranking system in Battle Grounds, but it's internal so it's not like you'd be able to identify which people are on your level unless you see them in a BG's match consistently. In Cyrodiil, you're walking into an area that has people who have been playing since the Vet Rank 14 era. These players, and many other veteran players are not only constantly honing their own skills, but also constantly tweaking their builds to match the new meta and new available power creeps. Those players are going to consistently put you in the dirt until you willingly evaluate and research where you can improve. That can be as casual as joining a guild (easier than it's ever been) and asking other players for their build advice, ideal sets, skill bar setups, etc. It can be as advanced as building spreadsheets to help calculate damage, mitigation, and sustain numbers for each of your builds. It can be somewhere in between. But it starts with picking the brains of more veteran players, which you could have done here, for example, instead of opining about how the game doesn't hand it to you without effort.
3. What you're asking for is antithetical to the core of what makes ESO PvP. In PvE, if you go off-meta, you are making the willful decision to be less effective than you could. That's because PvE is far more of a numerical environment that rewards min-maxed stats and muscle memory for rotations. The reason you can go into a dungeon wearing anything and succeed is because those bosses are going to do the same thing, every single time. They cannot make decisions, learn your patterns, or counter attack based on what they've previously experienced. You, on the other hand, can learn the mechanics as well as improve your DPS to get through them quicker and easier. And now you're on to the next, slightly more challenging PvE item. In PvP, it's all about build identity, synergy, and how well you play a given playstyle. You will find FAR MORE sets and combinations used in PvP than you will in PvE, because it's not a quantitative race so much as an expedition to find what fits your playstyle and then a gradual refining of the build and honing of skills.
4. Someone earlier suggested building tanky and then slowly moving away from that tankiness and into more damage. DO THAT. That is fantastic advice and exactly how myself and most of my friends learned how to PvP. It allows you more time to evaluate what's happening in a fight and which skills the opponent is casting. You can learn a lot more from staying alive and being able to kill less people than being able to kill anyone but also getting dirtnapped on sight. You'll eventually be able to spec into more damage when you realize that your skill is keeping you alive moreso than your mitigation.
6. Finally, consider that your given class and playstyle may not be best for you. I played MagSorc from launch to Morrowind and while I liked it fine, it just didn't sync up with my playstyle. I could win some fights, but I wasn't great at playing the playstyle necessary for MagSorc to be dominant. I saw those MagSorcs walking around that were dominant and I knew that just wasn't me. I made a StamDK after morrowind and found that I enjoy the rope-a-dope, in your face brawler playstyle much more than I did the hit-and-run, walking magic cannon of MagSorc. Consequently, I'm a much better player on StamDK than MagSorc because it fits what I'm comfortable with and what I enjoy. Something worth considering.
Lastly, PvP is 90% about skill and experience. There is no set that is going to make up that difference, and there is no substitute for failing and evaluating your failures. Try not to blame it on the fact that you don't have meta sets, when everyone is telling you that the PvP meta is relatively diverse and it's a skill issue.2 -
mav1234✭✭✭✭✭Inexpensive, entry-level pvp sets are available from vendors. They're called Guild Traders. In the same way that a huge number of people find the sets they see suggesting on Alcast's beginner guides there, you can get beginner PvP sets on guild traders too. There's just so many options, it is often easier to get crafted stuff.
Particularly in No CP, the barrier to entering PvP and being competitive from a character-loadout stand point are low. The real 'challenge' is in learning how PvP in eso functions and how to play your character in it.0 -
Kalik_Gold✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bradyfjord wrote: »My first conscious effort to make a pvp setup for my dk was back when Ravager was awesome. I paired it with 7th Legion, and some Agility.
Still use Ravager on my Stamplar. It is still awesome. 6.1k wd almost all the time. With Potentates backbar for defense.
• Night Mother's Gaze, Ravager, Molag Kena, Potentates (Back bar) <---worksEdited by Kalik_Gold on June 9, 2020 1:29AMMain Character:PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant
Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige
PvP Pure-class:
Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer
PvP: Subclassed or Specialty
Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer (Tank)
Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer (Healer)
Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade (Bomber)
Two-Big-Horns an Argonian Arcanist /Sorcerer
Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden (Ice-Theme)
PvE:
Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight (Tank)
Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar (Healer)
Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Redguard** Dragonknight (Raid Damage) --- Name change needed
PvE: Specialty
Tyrus Septim an Imperial Sorcerer (Dungeon Damage)
Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden (Arenas)
Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade (Thief)
Leveling...
Styx of Akatosh a Goblin*** Arcanist --- Race change needed
Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Lycan Sorcerer
Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
======
Passives of another race used:
*Breton
**Imperial
***Argonian
__________________________Backstories:_________________________
Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.
Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.
Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...
Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.
Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.
The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.
The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.
Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.
Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)
And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.
After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.
After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...
Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.
Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.
{time moves forward through the hour-glass}1 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »But how does a new player know to build a set using these to play pvp? That isn't something a player will figure out until 6-12 months playing.
When you start you are broke, have no cp points, buying gear in the "correct" traits is too expensive, you don't have any crafting lines leveled up. You probably aren't in a guild. You are trying to figure out the game, may have hit level 15 and are learning how to bar swap. Most of the map has not been uncovered. You don't have TTC installed and can't go shopping effectively. You are running random dungeons, not "farming" for a particular set.
Most of the skills you picked are the wrong morph and don't work together. You may have leveld S+B for a dps role. You don't have any assault skill line.
Most of these issues don't get rectified until many months later. In that time, the new player has tried BGs a few times, gets instantly ganked, only to be t-bagged by the opposing player.
I think you underestimate just how bad the experience is for new players.
Why not just make a set that can be purchased immediately, or even better mail them a set after they complete their first BG, with a retainer that says "Use these next time, I think you will do much better."
If the new player is interested in PvP, they can join a PvP guild where people will help them get gear, help them practice fighting with duels and take them out to Cyrodiil as a group so they can learn the ropes.
One of the things the GM of my PvP guild told me many years ago was "you have to learn to not mind dying", and it's true.
You always end up dying, even if you are great. Even with good gear.
I'm not great at PvP and I suck at 1v1, but I love the siege and tactics and trying to figure out what the enemy is going to do and where they are going to hit next.
Some of my characters have PvP gear. Some don't. They still all go into Cyrodiil when the mood strikes, and I have fun.
But I'm by no means as good as some of my guildies, who could run around on a level 10 with picked up gear and still be effective.
But if your mythical new player wants to go into Cyrodiil solo, with no guild, then they can start researching traits and can get enough knowledge to craft the 2-trait sets (Death's Wind, Ashen Grip and Night's Silence) and throw together a build with less than 9 days of research time. Just ask in Zone Chat for gear for research and people will make it for you. Focus on the traits you need first and worry about the rest later.
The Moot Councillor2 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Equipment for my newest 2 builds that make even magblades pretty competitive were under 30k, the only thing that is not cheap as dirt is jewelry upgrade. All the rest can be done without any effort. Thanks to Alcast I can get rich by selling useless (for me) stuff for sick amounts of gold, and buy cheap good gear because nobody is looking for it
"We are currently investigating connection issues some players are having on the European megaservers. We will update as new information becomes available."
— They always claim they’re “investigating” the causes, but in reality they’re just waiting until the PC EU players go to bed. Once that happens, you can suddenly log in again and they happily mark the issue as Fixed.1 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »The barrier for entry to PVP is getting geared. A good meta pvp set will cost 500K gold or more. Finding this information means going to alcast and looking for a build.
The observation is that you can run PVE dungeons and have success with pretty much any set you find. (The DLC and veteran dungeons may require a little more thought, but the sets are not expensive.) But the same is not true of PVP. If you attempt pvp as a new(poor) player with found gear, they will wipe the floor with you.
Maybe this exists, but there should be a bright flashing neon sign that says "Equip this gear and you will have a good time", with prices a novice can afford, without having to collect pvp currency. Of course they wouldn't be meta, but they would keep people alive.
Everyone have access to e ery set in the game, how you a quire these sets is totally up to you. You can buy if you want or farm them if tou cant't buy. You can craft or ask someone to craft for you. It is very simple and not complicated at all.0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭500k lulwat.
A set of new moon body pieces in purple shouldn't cost you more than 50k.
1 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »I dont think you guys are getting what I'm saying.
A new player can queue for a dungeon with just the gear that he found and be successful.
If same beginner queues for BG or cyrodil he will get wrecked.
A beginner doesn't know about looking up builds online and may not even be in a guild. He probably doesnt have enough gold or mats to build a PVE set and a PVP set. There is a knowledge, gold, and time gap.
This is not a problem for dungeons because you can complete them with pretty much anything you are wearing. Tank just needs a taunt and a shield. DPS can one bar mash buttons and pass normal dungeons. Same is not true of PVP. And the degree of failure is much more than just wiping to a boss. You get owned in every matchup unless you are part of a zerg.
My point is that beginners have a horrible experience with PVP if they just queue up to try it out. If there was a bright flashing neon sign that said "equip this gear, you will have a chance", then they might actually enjoy it and lead to more people wanting to PVP.
I should have predicted that PCPers wouldnt like an "ez botton" option. It would actually reduce or eliminate the undergeared clowns you can mop up. It would take that little bit of enjoyment away from you.
By successful you mean getting carried by well geared, experienced players?
You can do that in pvp too.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭500k lulwat.
A set of new moon body pieces in purple shouldn't cost you more than 50k.
Assuming this was speaking of the Blazeplar, I don't remember the actual cost. But do recall that neither Plague Doctor nor Green Pact are crafted sets, this was a specific meta build, AND transmutation didn't exist. It wasn't the most expensive build ever - some of the weapons during the trait changes for Horns of the Reach got very, very pricy - but it was an investment at the time, especially at gold quality.
Given that I barely used it because I realized very quickly that I was going to have to put in a lot of practice to learn how to be effective, it was an expensive, but well-learned lesson about the efficacy of gear vs experience.0 -
Seri✭✭✭✭
I know. Crazy, right? Contrary to popular forum opinion, PvPers would love to get more people into Cyro too.ketsparrowhawk wrote: »Weird that PvPers would chime in on a PvP topic.
You've continually talked about how someone new queuing up to a dungeon and being able to complete. Yes, that's true, but the PvP equivalent is a DLC Vet dungeon, not a base-game normal. If a new player queues into one of those somehow and completes, they either have some game knowledge, or got hard-carried by the group.ImmortalCX wrote: »I should have predicted that PCPers wouldnt like an "ez botton" option. It would actually reduce or eliminate the undergeared clowns you can mop up. It would take that little bit of enjoyment away from you.
New players have access to the no-CP and below-50 Cyro campaigns to get started but skill will invariably always beat gear. I assume there'd need to be some cutoff to when a player can no longer wear such a set? If the intention is for the gear to help bridge the gap between a current experienced player and a new one, what's to stop a current experienced player equipping this seemingly quite strong gear?
(Incidentally, the trainee set available from the starter zones was temporarily quite a popular PvP option at one point)EP CP160+ Templar, Sorc, NB
DC CP160+ Templar, Sorc, DK1 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The learning curve for ESO PvP is steep and, for many, deeply unpleasant. So much so they do it once and never come back. The argument that “that’s how it is noob, that’s how I had to do it... deal with it” is both fatuous and unproductive.
ZOS don’t help in the slightest. There should be way more explanation in game to encourage players to get into PvP and, at the very least, a simple way for players to retune their PvE builds to PvP.
If you don’t simply want to be repeatedly killed (and who does?) there are some steps you can take....
1. Find a guild that does ‘fun’ PvP... go in with them, accept you will die (probably a lot) but it will be a laugh
2. Find someone you can duel with repeatedly... ideally someone who knows how to PvP and will let you practice on them for a bit before killing you with a one shot....
3. find someone who who’ll craft you a set of PvP gear in the right traits (ie impen)
4. Don’t wait until you are level 50...
PvP can be fun and challenging, but it’s a different game from PvE
Good luck and have fun
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Thraben✭✭✭✭✭(Incidentally, the trainee set available from the starter zones was temporarily quite a popular PvP option at one point)
I would see no problems if the PvP tutorial gave people a full "starter set" (a mix between Trainee and Potentate) in light, medium, or heavy. One thing less to consider.
There is so much the game doesn't tell Noobs - not only that their bow build sucks (and most Alcast builds, too), but also things like stacking damage mititgation in % INSTEAD of flat value, delayed burst, or things as simple as Purge.
And IF you ask in chat, you get answers like "Lightning ballistae are good against ballgroups" - because even regular PvP players don't know the mechanics.Hauptmann der Dolche des Königs
DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf der 30-Tage-No-CP- Kampagne(EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.
DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on the 30 days no-cp campaign (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.0 -
CMDR_Un1k0rn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OP, I have three links here that will help you massively.
ESO skills website: https://eso-skillbook.com/
ESO gear sets website: https://eso-sets.com/
ESO character build editor: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor
You can use the first two to evaluate what gives you what. The third link you can use to get an idea of what to expect from a character with everything combined, all presented neatly on a web-page.In-game username: Un1korn | Happy member of the PCNA UESP guild (Resident Daggerfall Covenant enjoyer) | Main & basically only character: Crucian Vulpin, Imperial Dragonknight of the Daggerfall Covenant, and Undaunted Bulwark (I tank) | Mountain bike enjoyer and vulpine appreciator | If you know me from PCEU: No | To ZOS: THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME BRING MY HORSE INTO BATTLE!0 -
peacenote✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »
The difference is that new players can walk into a dungeon with found gear and be successful. The same is not true of PVP.
The barrier to PVP is actually higher than crafting/buying a meta set.
Idk... define successful.
I have jumped into BG's or joined a large group in Cyro with PvE-focused alts that were being leveled or just configured upon hitting 50 and did just fine. I mean blues and greens with wrong traits and ability bars set for PvE.
In Cyro I think the worst problem is if your mount is slow, as it is SO annoying to be running more than fighting as you learn the ropes.
And I have seen LOTS of new players waltz into dungeons with suboptimal setups and the group can't finish the run... which is what I would define as success for that scenario.
Good gear always helps, but it matters more when you know what you are doing (not the other way around)... in both PvP and PvE, imo.2