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Should there be (are there) inexpensive PVP sets that can be bought with gold from vendor?
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MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭ImmortalCX wrote: »I dont think you guys are getting what I'm saying.
A new player can queue for a dungeon with just the gear that he found and be successful.
If same beginner queues for BG or cyrodil he will get wrecked.
A beginner doesn't know about looking up builds online and may not even be in a guild. He probably doesnt have enough gold or mats to build a PVE set and a PVP set. There is a knowledge, gold, and time gap.
This is not a problem for dungeons because you can complete them with pretty much anything you are wearing. Tank just needs a taunt and a shield. DPS can one bar mash buttons and pass normal dungeons. Same is not true of PVP. And the degree of failure is much more than just wiping to a boss. You get owned in every matchup unless you are part of a zerg.
My point is that beginners have a horrible experience with PVP if they just queue up to try it out. If there was a bright flashing neon sign that said "equip this gear, you will have a chance", then they might actually enjoy it and lead to more people wanting to PVP.
I should have predicted that PCPers wouldnt like an "ez botton" option. It would actually reduce or eliminate the undergeared clowns you can mop up. It would take that little bit of enjoyment away from you.
What are you asking for exactly?
If you are saying that it is to expensive to get PvP gear, that is not the case. You can do well in two crafted purple sets, a monster set or 2 pieces of a 3 piece set (i.e. potentates), and gold weapons. This will run you 250k max if you are buying everything. But you should have plenty of the mats already.
Competitive PvP builds can be found everywhere.
You can have a build and the gear within a week of hitting CP160, no problem.
What takes time is developing skill. And it should take time. There is a lot of learning and practice that goes into it. Getting OK gear and a good build is just the first step, and a quick one. Once you've taken it, all you can do is play and try to improve. I'd say the outcomes of PvP battles are 25% determined by build and gear and 75% by player skill.Edited by MurderMostFoul on June 8, 2020 6:49PM“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”3 -
MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »@ImmortalCX PvP has little to no barriers to entry especially with the recent trait changes with impen running divines is easily viable. As for sets, unless you want to really do some theory crafted 1% build you can be effective just using crafted sets like New Moon Acolyte, Stuhn's, Seducer, Critical Riposte, Spell Parasite, Clever alch.
I'm a 6 year player that has almost exclusively played pvp and I can assure you there is no reason you can't be near Bis within an hour or two of crafting.
.
That is IF you have a stack of gold and mats from playing for 6+ months. And thats IF you have the knowlege to do this. And are in a high level guild with crafters.
Running dungeons doesnt have any of these barriers.
Not at all, Purple gear is perfectly fine. If anything only your damage bar weapon needs to be gold. Almost any trade guild has crafters that will help newer members if you dont have traits researched. I make gear all the time for free, usually people just give me the raw mats needed.
As I stated before, you really expect new players to make it through vet dlc dungeons without spending any amount of time putting gear on. I can guarantee that for me to enter into late game pve I have to spend months farming pug normal trials to be able to get somewhat proper gear to be able to enter into a late game vet trials guild to be able to get gear from those trials to be at a competitive level. I would call those hard barriers compared to just asking in zone/guild for someone to make you some white gear of a certain set0 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Just wanted to add here ... this topic seems to be hung up on gear. Part of your gear is your selection of slotted potions. If you want to jump up a level in PVP one of the fastest ways to see better results is to brew your own potions, and have more then 1 available to you at all times.
For years I’ve run 2 main potions. The first is my immovable potion that doubles as my health and magic potion that is essentially a must for storming castles. The second is my invisibility plus speed potion which gives me more than 10 seconds to get out of dodge. Both of those have done way more to extend my toon’s lives than any piece of gear ever did.3 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »I dont think you guys are getting what I'm saying.
A new player can queue for a dungeon with just the gear that he found and be successful.
If same beginner queues for BG or cyrodil he will get wrecked.
A beginner doesn't know about looking up builds online and may not even be in a guild. He probably doesnt have enough gold or mats to build a PVE set and a PVP set. There is a knowledge, gold, and time gap.
This is not a problem for dungeons because you can complete them with pretty much anything you are wearing. Tank just needs a taunt and a shield. DPS can one bar mash buttons and pass normal dungeons. Same is not true of PVP. And the degree of failure is much more than just wiping to a boss. You get owned in every matchup unless you are part of a zerg.
My point is that beginners have a horrible experience with PVP if they just queue up to try it out. If there was a bright flashing neon sign that said "equip this gear, you will have a chance", then they might actually enjoy it and lead to more people wanting to PVP.
I should have predicted that PCPers wouldnt like an "ez botton" option. It would actually reduce or eliminate the undergeared clowns you can mop up. It would take that little bit of enjoyment away from you.
You are confusing gear requirements with skill thresholds. Yes, you can button mash your way through normal dungeons. And No, you cant button mash your way through PVP. That has NOTHING to do with gear. It's because the player on the other side knows how to PVP and is NOT mashing buttons.ImmortalCX wrote: »ImmortalCX wrote: »I dont think you guys are getting what I'm saying.
A new player can queue for a dungeon with just the gear that he found and be successful.
If same beginner queues for BG or cyrodil he will get wrecked.
A beginner doesn't know about looking up builds online and may not even be in a guild. He probably doesnt have enough gold or mats to build a PVE set and a PVP set. There is a knowledge, gold, and time gap.
This is not a problem for dungeons because you can complete them with pretty much anything you are wearing. Tank just needs a taunt and a shield. DPS can one bar mash buttons and pass normal dungeons. Same is not true of PVP. And the degree of failure is much more than just wiping to a boss. You get owned in every matchup unless you are part of a zerg.
My point is that beginners have a horrible experience with PVP if they just queue up to try it out. If there was a bright flashing neon sign that said "equip this gear, you will have a chance", then they might actually enjoy it and lead to more people wanting to PVP.
I should have predicted that PCPers wouldnt like an "ez botton" option. It would actually reduce or eliminate the undergeared clowns you can mop up. It would take that little bit of enjoyment away from you.
In terms of this statement,
In PvE the content is at whatever level you play it. For instance new players can find themselves in normal dungeons and do fine without gear. However this wont cut it for vet dungeons or normal trials. Then the next stage is vet dlc dungeons and vet trials. Then the next stage is vet+ trials.
In PvP the only steps of this kind to cater to lower tiers of players is how absurdly strong groups of players are now adays. If a newer player doesn't want to run into better players they must avoid them. Player versus Player generally implies that you are to be matched against another opponent to see who is better. When you lose, no matter to how different the skill gap was, there is always something to learn. What hinders people is when they blame everyone other than themselves. No matter the situation there was always one action/choice you could have made that would have let you survive longer or out burst the enemy.
At least half of the difference between new and experienced pvper is gear.
New players should have an option where they can equip some heavy armor with stam regen and decent damage stats, so they can survive and learn. They will get 2x 5pc bonuses. It should be almost free (or free).
This is simply false. There is a serious L2P issue buried in here somewhere.2 -
Kalik_Gold✭✭✭✭✭
✭ImmortalCX wrote: »I dont think you guys are getting what I'm saying.
A new player can queue for a dungeon with just the gear that he found and be successful.
If same beginner queues for BG or cyrodil he will get wrecked.
A new beginner can que for a Normal dunegon and be carried until he has gear. Same for new player in BGs. Until they get easy to acquire gear with Rewards of the worth drops, and buyable with AP or Telvar gear.
In a week they should be up and running at max. Can also get crafted gear in Impen to hold them down. Easily.Main Character:PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant
Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige
PvP Pure-class:
Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer
PvP: Subclassed or Specialty
Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer (Tank)
Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer (Healer)
Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade (Bomber)
Two-Big-Horns an Argonian Arcanist /Sorcerer
Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden (Ice-Theme)
PvE:
Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight (Tank)
Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar (Healer)
Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Redguard** Dragonknight (Raid Damage) --- Name change needed
PvE: Specialty
Tyrus Septim an Imperial Sorcerer (Dungeon Damage)
Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden (Arenas)
Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade (Thief)
Leveling...
Styx of Akatosh a Goblin*** Arcanist --- Race change needed
Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Lycan Sorcerer
Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
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Passives of another race used:
*Breton
**Imperial
***Argonian
__________________________Backstories:_________________________
Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.
Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.
Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...
Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.
Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.
The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.
The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.
Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.
Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)
And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.
After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.
After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...
Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.
Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.
{time moves forward through the hour-glass}0 -
gatekeeper13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So when looking to progress try to figure out what aspect is hindering you. Build? meta? abilities? skill? At a certain point if it feels like you are not improving, one of these factors is limiting you. Maybe there is a set of gear that would give you a slightly better 1% advantage that lets your skill continue progressing. Maybe running a terrible race is limiting how your stats compare against someone elses, so they are always 1% better than you.
Without a vid it is hard for me to help you skill wise, which I guarantee there are problems there. Then of course having 5.2k wd and 7k pen does not mean you should insta kill targets. I have those stats on my build that has kept me alive when outnumbered 15-20+ people in lag. For progressing purposes I would suggest eliminating the Build? and Abilities? by finding a better player than you and trying to run what they run. Problem is, most people that are at the end level can't really stream PvP anymore so it is harder to find that info without directly just asking/talking with people.
There is a disparity between classes for sure, some are just garbage right now due to the meta and how zos has changed them over the years. The bottom tier is generally widely accepted as (mag/stamblade and then stamsorc following) with the top tier as (stamcro by far, followed by stamden/magsorc) However I wouldn't focus on being upset about this aspect since there is not much you can do about it anyways. This wont become a problem till you reach true endgame pvp, where there is nothing else for you to learn/improve on.
I have no problem admitting that there are players better than me. And that tank was a better player. That's not my issue. I just find ridiculous the fact that there are builds which can absorb so much damage. Makes no sense. I play with this build for 4 months and I ve killed 1 on 1 players rank 50, Grand Warlords, I ve killed former Emperors and I have a taste of what dmg my build can do. I am not saying I am a top player or anything like, not even close, I am mediocre at best. But I cannot understand how is it possible for a build to absorb so much dmg and not falling, let's say, to 70-60% instead of staying between 90-80%.
I felt like I was attacking him with bare hands.THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »[Let me help you here.
No matter what you do, no matter how you gear your toon, there will ALWAYS be a small number of tanks you simply cannot kill. I know this because my main is a Templar that has for years been specked to the highest damage output that I could mathematically figure out. At times I’d have more than 60,000 magic with commensurate spell damage. Even then, despite having potentially the strongest radiant oppression on XBox there were still people I could not kill. It’s not uncommon to see these tanks running around a tree with 9 people chasing them ineffectively. When I’d see that 90% of the time I’d be the person who would strike the killing blow because I was essentially the only person dumb enough to ignore all advice and go with an uber-glass cannon.
Even then ... occasionally there would still be tanks that I couldn’t kill. Now imagine if you’re running a meta set or a set with any reasonable amount of defense like you probably should. Do you think you could end that tank when I couldn’t? It’s unlikely since you’re playing the way your “supposed to” and I’m not, while I also have thousands of hours of PVP experience to fall back on.
Anyway, in those cases ... just walk away. They can’t hurt you. All they can do is distract you. It sounds silly but a PVP tank in Cyrodiil is only as useful as you allow them to be. Just kill the guy who is behind them, who is generally a healer.
TLDR - don’t waste time trying to kill tanks
Thanks for your helpful answer.
The thing is I am a bit stubborn and I ll still try to find a way to kill a tank when I find it. He may kill me 10 times. I ll go back 10 times and try to beat him, no matter if a possible victory won't benefit me in any way.
But the problem here, imho, is.... Why is it possible for such builds to exist? You re a better and more experienced PVP player than I am, since I only PVP for around 4 months and even if you believe it's impossible to kill them.... then it's just insane and I think they should do sth to change it.Edited by gatekeeper13 on June 8, 2020 6:51PM0 -
Icy_Waffles✭✭✭✭✭
✭There’s a few sets that are meta that are craftable. I suggest you start there.1 -
RageKing✭✭✭✭The reason you can do dungeons with trash gear is because of your group. group up in pvp and it will help you not die often.
if everyone ran that dungeon with random trash gear you wouldnt finish, especially if its vet content. or it will take forever because of really low dps. so your comparison to a new guy running a dungeon with trash gear and getting carried by the rest of the group isnt comparable to pvp unless you also join a good group and get carried.
Im unsure what pvp sets your talking about that you cant get until end game besides trial gear. and trial gear is mainly for pve.
remember your playing against players, who arent static brainless monsters. they are people who also have died many times in pvp and learned how to not die. I think your actual issue is skill and not gear2 -
gp1680✭✭✭✭✭gatekeeper13 wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »[Let me help you here.
No matter what you do, no matter how you gear your toon, there will ALWAYS be a small number of tanks you simply cannot kill. I know this because my main is a Templar that has for years been specked to the highest damage output that I could mathematically figure out. At times I’d have more than 60,000 magic with commensurate spell damage. Even then, despite having potentially the strongest radiant oppression on XBox there were still people I could not kill. It’s not uncommon to see these tanks running around a tree with 9 people chasing them ineffectively. When I’d see that 90% of the time I’d be the person who would strike the killing blow because I was essentially the only person dumb enough to ignore all advice and go with an uber-glass cannon.
Even then ... occasionally there would still be tanks that I couldn’t kill. Now imagine if you’re running a meta set or a set with any reasonable amount of defense like you probably should. Do you think you could end that tank when I couldn’t? It’s unlikely since you’re playing the way your “supposed to” and I’m not, while I also have thousands of hours of PVP experience to fall back on.
Anyway, in those cases ... just walk away. They can’t hurt you. All they can do is distract you. It sounds silly but a PVP tank in Cyrodiil is only as useful as you allow them to be. Just kill the guy who is behind them, who is generally a healer.
TLDR - don’t waste time trying to kill tanks
Thanks for your helpful answer.
The thing is I am a bit stubborn and I ll still try to find a way to kill a tank when I find it. He may kill me 10 times. I ll go back 10 times and try to beat him, no matter if a possible victory won't benefit me in any way.
But the problem here, imho, is.... Why is it possible for such builds to exist? You re a better and more experienced PVP player than I am, since I only PVP for around 4 months and even if you believe it's impossible to kill them.... then it's just insane and I think they should do sth to change it.
Those tanks are just good for building ulti. Leave them alone and work on the others. The tank is purposefully trying to get you to waste time on him as a diversion, while his dps support cleans up. For every god-tank, there’s 20 squishies you can practice on.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »ItsJustHashtag wrote: »You can get good enough sets that drop overland or craftable to get started in pvp. Getting end game pvp gear shouldn’t be handed to someone just starting out just as end game pve gear isn’t.
Im not talking about endgame pvp gear. Just something to let them survive and have a good time.
The difference is that new players can walk into a dungeon with found gear and be successful. The same is not true of PVP.
The barrier to PVP is actually higher than crafting/buying a meta set. If you plan to continue doing PVE, you actually need a second character with proper CP allocation and skills.
The barrier in PvP is a player's skill level, not gear. A player skill level will trump gear any day of the week in ESO PvP. That is not to say gear does not help, but you can go into PvP with easily obtainable gear and do well.
Of course, I am not talking about running around with a 20 player group where gear is probably not needed to begin with. I am talking small group and solo PvP.
New Moon Acolyte Clever Alchemist are good examples of a crafted set that would work well in PvP. They have good damage stats for mag or stam builds and CA has some added health. Even if someone does not have the traits researched they can get a guildmate to craft it for them. Use that gold to buy the materials.2 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭gatekeeper13 wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »[Let me help you here.
No matter what you do, no matter how you gear your toon, there will ALWAYS be a small number of tanks you simply cannot kill. I know this because my main is a Templar that has for years been specked to the highest damage output that I could mathematically figure out. At times I’d have more than 60,000 magic with commensurate spell damage. Even then, despite having potentially the strongest radiant oppression on XBox there were still people I could not kill. It’s not uncommon to see these tanks running around a tree with 9 people chasing them ineffectively. When I’d see that 90% of the time I’d be the person who would strike the killing blow because I was essentially the only person dumb enough to ignore all advice and go with an uber-glass cannon.
Even then ... occasionally there would still be tanks that I couldn’t kill. Now imagine if you’re running a meta set or a set with any reasonable amount of defense like you probably should. Do you think you could end that tank when I couldn’t? It’s unlikely since you’re playing the way your “supposed to” and I’m not, while I also have thousands of hours of PVP experience to fall back on.
Anyway, in those cases ... just walk away. They can’t hurt you. All they can do is distract you. It sounds silly but a PVP tank in Cyrodiil is only as useful as you allow them to be. Just kill the guy who is behind them, who is generally a healer.
TLDR - don’t waste time trying to kill tanks
Thanks for your helpful answer.
The thing is I am a bit stubborn and I ll still try to find a way to kill a tank when I find it. He may kill me 10 times. I ll go back 10 times and try to beat him, no matter if a possible victory won't benefit me in any way.
But the problem here, imho, is.... Why is it possible for such builds to exist? You re a better and more experienced PVP player than I am, since I only PVP for around 4 months and even if you believe it's impossible to kill them.... then it's just insane and I think they should do sth to change it.
Confucius says, “ balance in ESO is achieved by imbalance”.
I’ve been jokingly saying that for years. What I mean by it is that every ... and I mean EVERY ... class in ESO can be made to be over powered as long as you’re running the correct race to maximize what you are going for. You just have to be willing to die a ton to get a reasonable amount of feedback to see if your crazier ideas work. Usually they don’t ... usually the meta advice is solid ... but not always.
Here is what I recommend. Every 3 months take your toon and do a full respeck on them. Abilities, gear, everything. Read EVERY tool tip. Do not just take someone else’s word for what is BIS. Try out weird stuff. I have a level 38 stamsorc that is so outrageously OP it’s laughable. I really got to finish leveling that guy. I can’t recall his gear off hand but he can do at least 3 AOEs at once.
Anyway, if you are dead set on killing the unkillable tanks ... an admirable goal by the way ... you can’t go half way. You need to strip away every possible defensive thing you have and dump everything into damage. It’s give and take. That tank really can’t kill you, it’s mostly just you killing yourself. So my overall advice is just don’t settle for a half measure.
If you want to do what’s impossible, break your build until you’ve gotten so outrageous with the damage that the impossible becomes possible.Edited by THEDKEXPERIENCE on June 8, 2020 7:05PM0 -
daemonor✭✭✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »I dont think you guys are getting what I'm saying.
A new player can queue for a dungeon with just the gear that he found and be successful.
If same beginner queues for BG or cyrodil he will get wrecked.
A beginner doesn't know about looking up builds online and may not even be in a guild. He probably doesnt have enough gold or mats to build a PVE set and a PVP set. There is a knowledge, gold, and time gap.
This is not a problem for dungeons because you can complete them with pretty much anything you are wearing. Tank just needs a taunt and a shield. DPS can one bar mash buttons and pass normal dungeons. Same is not true of PVP. And the degree of failure is much more than just wiping to a boss. You get owned in every matchup unless you are part of a zerg.
My point is that beginners have a horrible experience with PVP if they just queue up to try it out. If there was a bright flashing neon sign that said "equip this gear, you will have a chance", then they might actually enjoy it and lead to more people wanting to PVP.
I should have predicted that PCPers wouldnt like an "ez botton" option. It would actually reduce or eliminate the undergeared clowns you can mop up. It would take that little bit of enjoyment away from you.
I don't think you are getting what we are saying. I assume you are talking about normal dungeons, because only those can be completed with 4 players who put on whatever they can find and can't manage more than a 3 button rotation. But those same dungeons drop gear that is perfectly viable/meta/bis for some pvp builds. So the game is absoloutely not preventing you from getting pvp gear with 0 amount of effort required. I've ran countless of normal dungeons as fake tank on my dps char to get instant ques and farm the pvp gear that I wanted.
Now if you slap the same bunch of newbies and put them in a veteran dungeon you probably won't get past first boss, heck make a random group of 810 cp players with best gear and if theyre below average they won't clear any DLC veteran dungeons either. It's absoloutely normal to get wrecked in pvp wether you are new or not and i can assure you 99% of the time if you are a given a 810 cp char right now with golden meta build you will die in 4-5 gcds instead of 2-3 and you won't be able to tell any difference.1 -
MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭gatekeeper13 wrote: »So when looking to progress try to figure out what aspect is hindering you. Build? meta? abilities? skill? At a certain point if it feels like you are not improving, one of these factors is limiting you. Maybe there is a set of gear that would give you a slightly better 1% advantage that lets your skill continue progressing. Maybe running a terrible race is limiting how your stats compare against someone elses, so they are always 1% better than you.
Without a vid it is hard for me to help you skill wise, which I guarantee there are problems there. Then of course having 5.2k wd and 7k pen does not mean you should insta kill targets. I have those stats on my build that has kept me alive when outnumbered 15-20+ people in lag. For progressing purposes I would suggest eliminating the Build? and Abilities? by finding a better player than you and trying to run what they run. Problem is, most people that are at the end level can't really stream PvP anymore so it is harder to find that info without directly just asking/talking with people.
There is a disparity between classes for sure, some are just garbage right now due to the meta and how zos has changed them over the years. The bottom tier is generally widely accepted as (mag/stamblade and then stamsorc following) with the top tier as (stamcro by far, followed by stamden/magsorc) However I wouldn't focus on being upset about this aspect since there is not much you can do about it anyways. This wont become a problem till you reach true endgame pvp, where there is nothing else for you to learn/improve on.
I have no problem admitting that there are players better than me. And that tank was a better player. That's not my issue. I just find ridiculous the fact that there are builds which can absorb so much damage. Makes no sense. I play with this build for 4 months and I ve killed 1 on 1 players rank 50, Grand Warlords, I ve killed former Emperors and I have a taste of what dmg my build can do. I am not saying I am a top player or anything like, not even close, I am mediocre at best. But I cannot understand how is it possible for a build to absorb so much dmg and not falling, let's say, to 70-60% instead of staying between 90-80%.
I felt like I was attacking him with bare hands.
Not trying to sound like a ***, cuz it is hard to say l2p when there are many aspects as mentioned before at play here. He could have simply done something like block casted your ult, which would have meant he would take nothing while at the same time healing. And Grand Warlord/emp means nothing anymore, even alot of the times players with emp are still terrible.
Well put it this way, there is an easy answer to why he did not drop like you expected. I suppose I can list off a few that would come to mind since I don't have a clip or video to comment on.- Mitigation (resists+%damage mit.....he could just be one tanky boi and killed you when you ran yourself dry)
- Block counterplay (almost anyone who gets bow ulted immediately blocks)
- simple HPS (outhealed your damage)
- Wings mitigation
Edited by MincVinyl on June 8, 2020 7:18PM0 -
ImmortalCX✭✭✭✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »ItsJustHashtag wrote: »You can get good enough sets
New Moon Acolyte Clever Alchemist are good examples of a crafted set that would work well in PvP. They have good damage stats for mag or stam builds and CA has some added health. Even if someone does not have the traits researched they can get a guildmate to craft it for them. Use that gold to buy the materials.
But how does a new player know to build a set using these to play pvp? That isn't something a player will figure out until 6-12 months playing.
When you start you are broke, have no cp points, buying gear in the "correct" traits is too expensive, you don't have any crafting lines leveled up. You probably aren't in a guild. You are trying to figure out the game, may have hit level 15 and are learning how to bar swap. Most of the map has not been uncovered. You don't have TTC installed and can't go shopping effectively. You are running random dungeons, not "farming" for a particular set.
Most of the skills you picked are the wrong morph and don't work together. You may have leveld S+B for a dps role. You don't have any assault skill line.
Most of these issues don't get rectified until many months later. In that time, the new player has tried BGs a few times, gets instantly ganked, only to be t-bagged by the opposing player.
I think you underestimate just how bad the experience is for new players.
Why not just make a set that can be purchased immediately, or even better mail them a set after they complete their first BG, with a retainer that says "Use these next time, I think you will do much better."0 -
ImmortalCX✭✭✭✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »ImmortalCX wrote: »ItsJustHashtag wrote: »You can get good enough sets
New Moon Acolyte Clever Alchemist are good examples of a crafted set that would work well in PvP. They have good damage stats for mag or stam builds and CA has some added health. Even if someone does not have the traits researched they can get a guildmate to craft it for them. Use that gold to buy the materials.
But how does a new player know to build a set using these to play pvp? That isn't something a player will figure out until 6-12 months playing.
When you start you are broke, have no cp points, buying gear in the "correct" traits is too expensive, you don't have any crafting lines leveled up. You probably aren't in a guild. You are trying to figure out the game, may have hit level 15 and are learning how to bar swap. Most of the map has not been uncovered. You don't have TTC installed and can't go shopping effectively. You are running random dungeons, not "farming" for a particular set.
Most of the skills you picked are the wrong morph and don't work together. You may have leveld S+B for a dps role. You don't have any assault skill line.
Most of these issues don't get rectified until many months later. In that time, the new player has tried BGs a few times, gets instantly ganked, only to be t-bagged by the opposing player.
I think you underestimate just how bad the experience is for new players.
Why not just make a set that can be purchased immediately, or even better mail them a set after they complete their first BG, with a retainer that says "Use these next time, I think you will do much better."
But how does a new player know to build a set using these to play pvp? That isn't something a player will figure out until 6-12 months playing.
When you start you are broke, have no cp points, buying gear in the "correct" traits is too expensive, you don't have any crafting lines leveled up. You probably aren't in a guild. You are trying to figure out the game, may have hit level 15 and are learning how to bar swap. Most of the map has not been uncovered. You don't have TTC installed and can't go shopping effectively. You are running random dungeons, not "farming" for a particular set.
Most of the skills you picked are the wrong morph and don't work together. You may have leveld S+B for a dps role. You don't have any assault skill line.
Most of these issues don't get rectified until many months later. In that time, the new player has tried BGs a few times, gets instantly ganked, only to be t-bagged by the opposing player.
I think you underestimate just how bad the experience is for new players.
Why not just make a set that can be purchased immediately, or even better mail them a set after they complete their first BG, with a retainer that says "Use these next time, I think you will do much better."0 -
ImmortalCX✭✭✭✭✭But how does a new player know to build a set using these to play pvp? That isn't something a player will figure out until 6-12 months playing.
When you start you are broke, have no cp points, buying gear in the "correct" traits is too expensive, you don't have any crafting lines leveled up. You probably aren't in a guild. You are trying to figure out the game, may have hit level 15 and are learning how to bar swap. Most of the map has not been uncovered. You don't have TTC installed and can't go shopping effectively. You are running random dungeons, not "farming" for a particular set.
Most of the skills you picked are the wrong morph and don't work together. You may have leveld S+B for a dps role. You don't have any assault skill line.
Most of these issues don't get rectified until many months later. In that time, the new player has tried BGs a few times, gets instantly ganked, only to be t-bagged by the opposing player.
I think you underestimate just how bad the experience is for new players.
Why not just make a set that can be purchased immediately, or even better mail them a set after they complete their first BG, with a retainer that says "Use these next time, I think you will do much better."0 -
CMDR_Un1k0rn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »But how does a new player know to build a set using these to play pvp? That isn't something a player will figure out until 6-12 months playing.
When you start you are broke, have no cp points, buying gear in the "correct" traits is too expensive, you don't have any crafting lines leveled up. You probably aren't in a guild. You are trying to figure out the game, may have hit level 15 and are learning how to bar swap. Most of the map has not been uncovered. You don't have TTC installed and can't go shopping effectively. You are running random dungeons, not "farming" for a particular set.
Most of the skills you picked are the wrong morph and don't work together. You may have leveld S+B for a dps role. You don't have any assault skill line.
Most of these issues don't get rectified until many months later. In that time, the new player has tried BGs a few times, gets instantly ganked, only to be t-bagged by the opposing player.
I think you underestimate just how bad the experience is for new players.
Why not just make a set that can be purchased immediately, or even better mail them a set after they complete their first BG, with a retainer that says "Use these next time, I think you will do much better."
There's a chat window. He could, you know... Ask nicely?
Almost like this game is an MMO...
I see people ask questions in /z all the time. Do you know what I do? I answer them. If I need to go deeper on the topic, I open a whisper chat.
Many, many players will do the same. Most people will ignore you, and that's harmless. Abuse for such things is actually very rare in this game.In-game username: Un1korn | Happy member of the PCNA UESP guild (Resident Daggerfall Covenant enjoyer) | Main & basically only character: Crucian Vulpin, Imperial Dragonknight of the Daggerfall Covenant, and Undaunted Bulwark (I tank) | Mountain bike enjoyer and vulpine appreciator | If you know me from PCEU: No | To ZOS: THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME BRING MY HORSE INTO BATTLE!0 -
MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »But how does a new player know to build a set using these to play pvp? That isn't something a player will figure out until 6-12 months playing.
When you start you are broke, have no cp points, buying gear in the "correct" traits is too expensive, you don't have any crafting lines leveled up. You probably aren't in a guild. You are trying to figure out the game, may have hit level 15 and are learning how to bar swap. Most of the map has not been uncovered. You don't have TTC installed and can't go shopping effectively. You are running random dungeons, not "farming" for a particular set.
Most of the skills you picked are the wrong morph and don't work together. You may have leveld S+B for a dps role. You don't have any assault skill line.
Most of these issues don't get rectified until many months later. In that time, the new player has tried BGs a few times, gets instantly ganked, only to be t-bagged by the opposing player.
I think you underestimate just how bad the experience is for new players.
Why not just make a set that can be purchased immediately, or even better mail them a set after they complete their first BG, with a retainer that says "Use these next time, I think you will do much better."
You know this is an mmo right? Simply asking in chat is probably the quickest way to gain knowledge. [snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on June 9, 2020 4:44PM2 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭gatekeeper13 wrote: »So when looking to progress try to figure out what aspect is hindering you. Build? meta? abilities? skill? At a certain point if it feels like you are not improving, one of these factors is limiting you. Maybe there is a set of gear that would give you a slightly better 1% advantage that lets your skill continue progressing. Maybe running a terrible race is limiting how your stats compare against someone elses, so they are always 1% better than you.
Without a vid it is hard for me to help you skill wise, which I guarantee there are problems there. Then of course having 5.2k wd and 7k pen does not mean you should insta kill targets. I have those stats on my build that has kept me alive when outnumbered 15-20+ people in lag. For progressing purposes I would suggest eliminating the Build? and Abilities? by finding a better player than you and trying to run what they run. Problem is, most people that are at the end level can't really stream PvP anymore so it is harder to find that info without directly just asking/talking with people.
There is a disparity between classes for sure, some are just garbage right now due to the meta and how zos has changed them over the years. The bottom tier is generally widely accepted as (mag/stamblade and then stamsorc following) with the top tier as (stamcro by far, followed by stamden/magsorc) However I wouldn't focus on being upset about this aspect since there is not much you can do about it anyways. This wont become a problem till you reach true endgame pvp, where there is nothing else for you to learn/improve on.
I have no problem admitting that there are players better than me. And that tank was a better player. That's not my issue. I just find ridiculous the fact that there are builds which can absorb so much damage. Makes no sense. I play with this build for 4 months and I ve killed 1 on 1 players rank 50, Grand Warlords, I ve killed former Emperors and I have a taste of what dmg my build can do. I am not saying I am a top player or anything like, not even close, I am mediocre at best. But I cannot understand how is it possible for a build to absorb so much dmg and not falling, let's say, to 70-60% instead of staying between 90-80%.
I felt like I was attacking him with bare hands.
Not trying to sound like a ***, cuz it is hard to say l2p when there are many aspects as mentioned before at play here. He could have simply done something like block casted your ult, which would have meant he would take nothing while at the same time healing. And Grand Warlord/emp means nothing anymore, even alot of the times players with emp are still terrible.
Well put it this way, there is an easy answer to why he did not drop like you expected. I suppose I can list off a few that would come to mind since I don't have a clip or video to comment on.- Mitigation (resists+%damage mit.....he could just be one tanky boi and killed you when you ran yourself dry)
- Block counterplay (almost anyone who gets bow ulted immediately blocks)
- simple HPS (outhealed your damage)
- Wings mitigation
This brings up a good point. One of the most overlooked aspects of PVP is how much stamina, magicka or health you and your opponent will have after your initial burst. Not how much you’ll regen, but how much you have left before you regen.
My Templar has a low health pool so if you catch him on his horse or reading a map I’m probably dead. But if I have even a minute chance at playback I can spam shields and heals just as long as an average stamina player who is attacking. Only difference is when they are at zero stamina I’d still have 20-30K magic left and likely an ultimate.
So if you can do, say, 30K damage in a second to wipe most people then more power to you. When dealing with one of those impossible tanks, you’d need to do double or triple that without depleting your own gas tank.0 -
ImmortalCX✭✭✭✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »But how does a new player know to build a set using these to play pvp? That isn't something a player will figure out until 6-12 months playing.
When you start you are broke, have no cp points, buying gear in the "correct" traits is too expensive, you don't have any crafting lines leveled up. You probably aren't in a guild. You are trying to figure out the game, may have hit level 15 and are learning how to bar swap. Most of the map has not been uncovered. You don't have TTC installed and can't go shopping effectively. You are running random dungeons, not "farming" for a particular set.
Most of the skills you picked are the wrong morph and don't work together. You may have leveld S+B for a dps role. You don't have any assault skill line.
Most of these issues don't get rectified until many months later. In that time, the new player has tried BGs a few times, gets instantly ganked, only to be t-bagged by the opposing player.
I think you underestimate just how bad the experience is for new players.
Why not just make a set that can be purchased immediately, or even better mail them a set after they complete their first BG, with a retainer that says "Use these next time, I think you will do much better."
You know this is an mmo right? Simply asking in chat is probably the quickest way to gain knowledge. Ignoring chat is the equivalent of a cave man being able to communicate with modern day civilization but instead ignoring them.
Or dare I explain how to google something again.....
Do they have chat on consoles?0 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I suck at pvp and I usually just throw together a set up without putting nearly 500k into it and do ok. The thing is, most people that pvp regularly aren't good at it either.BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA0 -
CMDR_Un1k0rn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »ImmortalCX wrote: »But how does a new player know to build a set using these to play pvp? That isn't something a player will figure out until 6-12 months playing.
When you start you are broke, have no cp points, buying gear in the "correct" traits is too expensive, you don't have any crafting lines leveled up. You probably aren't in a guild. You are trying to figure out the game, may have hit level 15 and are learning how to bar swap. Most of the map has not been uncovered. You don't have TTC installed and can't go shopping effectively. You are running random dungeons, not "farming" for a particular set.
Most of the skills you picked are the wrong morph and don't work together. You may have leveld S+B for a dps role. You don't have any assault skill line.
Most of these issues don't get rectified until many months later. In that time, the new player has tried BGs a few times, gets instantly ganked, only to be t-bagged by the opposing player.
I think you underestimate just how bad the experience is for new players.
Why not just make a set that can be purchased immediately, or even better mail them a set after they complete their first BG, with a retainer that says "Use these next time, I think you will do much better."
You know this is an mmo right? Simply asking in chat is probably the quickest way to gain knowledge. Ignoring chat is the equivalent of a cave man being able to communicate with modern day civilization but instead ignoring them.
Or dare I explain how to google something again.....
Do they have chat on consoles?
Yes. Played on Xbox before. It is there. Admittedly, has to be turned on IIRC.In-game username: Un1korn | Happy member of the PCNA UESP guild (Resident Daggerfall Covenant enjoyer) | Main & basically only character: Crucian Vulpin, Imperial Dragonknight of the Daggerfall Covenant, and Undaunted Bulwark (I tank) | Mountain bike enjoyer and vulpine appreciator | If you know me from PCEU: No | To ZOS: THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME BRING MY HORSE INTO BATTLE!0 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »ImmortalCX wrote: »But how does a new player know to build a set using these to play pvp? That isn't something a player will figure out until 6-12 months playing.
When you start you are broke, have no cp points, buying gear in the "correct" traits is too expensive, you don't have any crafting lines leveled up. You probably aren't in a guild. You are trying to figure out the game, may have hit level 15 and are learning how to bar swap. Most of the map has not been uncovered. You don't have TTC installed and can't go shopping effectively. You are running random dungeons, not "farming" for a particular set.
Most of the skills you picked are the wrong morph and don't work together. You may have leveld S+B for a dps role. You don't have any assault skill line.
Most of these issues don't get rectified until many months later. In that time, the new player has tried BGs a few times, gets instantly ganked, only to be t-bagged by the opposing player.
I think you underestimate just how bad the experience is for new players.
Why not just make a set that can be purchased immediately, or even better mail them a set after they complete their first BG, with a retainer that says "Use these next time, I think you will do much better."
You know this is an mmo right? Simply asking in chat is probably the quickest way to gain knowledge. Ignoring chat is the equivalent of a cave man being able to communicate with modern day civilization but instead ignoring them.
Or dare I explain how to google something again.....
Do they have chat on consoles?
Yup. They added it maybe 3/4 years ago.0 -
Kalik_Gold✭✭✭✭✭
✭Buy off trait and transmute. If your a regular pvper, you should have plenty
Got 400 stones in my mailbox this morning...Main Character:PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant
Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige
PvP Pure-class:
Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer
PvP: Subclassed or Specialty
Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer (Tank)
Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer (Healer)
Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade (Bomber)
Two-Big-Horns an Argonian Arcanist /Sorcerer
Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden (Ice-Theme)
PvE:
Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight (Tank)
Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar (Healer)
Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Redguard** Dragonknight (Raid Damage) --- Name change needed
PvE: Specialty
Tyrus Septim an Imperial Sorcerer (Dungeon Damage)
Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden (Arenas)
Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade (Thief)
Leveling...
Styx of Akatosh a Goblin*** Arcanist --- Race change needed
Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Lycan Sorcerer
Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
======
Passives of another race used:
*Breton
**Imperial
***Argonian
__________________________Backstories:_________________________
Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.
Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.
Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...
Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.
Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.
The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.
The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.
Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.
Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)
And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.
After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.
After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...
Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.
Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.
{time moves forward through the hour-glass}2 -
xWarbrain✭✭✭✭✭I always suggest that newer players build tankier than they expect, and then as they learn to just simply survive try to add damage into the build.
Doing this will help a new player more than their gear will.
Someone could hand you a full gear set up, in legendary with all of the right traits and enchantments.....a new player is still going to die in 2 seconds in PvP. It really isn't about new players knowing what gear to use. It takes a new player a lot more trial and error (dying) in PvP than it would for a new player to pug a dungeon in crap gear.XB1 NA
Your nerf suggestion is dumb. Learn to counter other players instead of having the game rebuilt to your ability level.3 -
gp1680✭✭✭✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »ImmortalCX wrote: »But how does a new player know to build a set using these to play pvp? That isn't something a player will figure out until 6-12 months playing.
When you start you are broke, have no cp points, buying gear in the "correct" traits is too expensive, you don't have any crafting lines leveled up. You probably aren't in a guild. You are trying to figure out the game, may have hit level 15 and are learning how to bar swap. Most of the map has not been uncovered. You don't have TTC installed and can't go shopping effectively. You are running random dungeons, not "farming" for a particular set.
Most of the skills you picked are the wrong morph and don't work together. You may have leveld S+B for a dps role. You don't have any assault skill line.
Most of these issues don't get rectified until many months later. In that time, the new player has tried BGs a few times, gets instantly ganked, only to be t-bagged by the opposing player.
I think you underestimate just how bad the experience is for new players.
Why not just make a set that can be purchased immediately, or even better mail them a set after they complete their first BG, with a retainer that says "Use these next time, I think you will do much better."
You know this is an mmo right? Simply asking in chat is probably the quickest way to gain knowledge. Ignoring chat is the equivalent of a cave man being able to communicate with modern day civilization but instead ignoring them.
Or dare I explain how to google something again.....
Do they have chat on consoles?
When you get into Cyrodiil, post “lfg” in zone chat and get into a group. The group likely will have a voice chat going. I used to learn a heck of a lot just listening to the chat and absorbing what others were or weren’t doing. It’s also possible that you are in a group with a PvP guild. Ask the crown if the guild is recruiting new players and accept an invite. PvP guilds are a great way to meet players - both experienced and not. Learn from all of them. You will get better.2 -
catnamedwill✭✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »But how does a new player know to build a set using these to play pvp? That isn't something a player will figure out until 6-12 months playing.
When you start you are broke, have no cp points, buying gear in the "correct" traits is too expensive, you don't have any crafting lines leveled up. You probably aren't in a guild. You are trying to figure out the game, may have hit level 15 and are learning how to bar swap. Most of the map has not been uncovered. You don't have TTC installed and can't go shopping effectively. You are running random dungeons, not "farming" for a particular set.
Most of the skills you picked are the wrong morph and don't work together. You may have leveld S+B for a dps role. You don't have any assault skill line.
Most of these issues don't get rectified until many months later. In that time, the new player has tried BGs a few times, gets instantly ganked, only to be t-bagged by the opposing player.
I think you underestimate just how bad the experience is for new players.
Why not just make a set that can be purchased immediately, or even better mail them a set after they complete their first BG, with a retainer that says "Use these next time, I think you will do much better."
How is that different from PvP in any game? For e.g. in CSGO, unless you learn spray patterns, proper movement, tactics and to apply them in a real match, you will get destroyed in PvP. In Destiny 2, unless you get proper items, learn builds and skills, you will get destroyed in a fight. Most PvP games takes a big deal of time to learn. In CSGO, most players never even go beyond average ranks in mm according to official database even after years of playing which means, they get defeated badly by enemies on a regular basis. And guess what? That's okay. Not everybody will be good in every game and they realize that too and they play to have fun and spend time with friends. It is the same for most PvPers in ESO.
The average ESO player does not compare skill level wise to limited number of high skilled playerbase, most of whom regular tourney duelists/1vXers etc. In other games, you generally encounter players around your own skill level. In ESO however, due to how Cyrodiil, essentially a newbie can face an equivalent of a pro and get utterly destroyed. And this happens regularly since the inception of Cyrodiil in ESO. It is not going to change. It is on the player to learn how to fight effectively.3 -
CMDR_Un1k0rn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭catnamedwill wrote: »ImmortalCX wrote: »But how does a new player know to build a set using these to play pvp? That isn't something a player will figure out until 6-12 months playing.
When you start you are broke, have no cp points, buying gear in the "correct" traits is too expensive, you don't have any crafting lines leveled up. You probably aren't in a guild. You are trying to figure out the game, may have hit level 15 and are learning how to bar swap. Most of the map has not been uncovered. You don't have TTC installed and can't go shopping effectively. You are running random dungeons, not "farming" for a particular set.
Most of the skills you picked are the wrong morph and don't work together. You may have leveld S+B for a dps role. You don't have any assault skill line.
Most of these issues don't get rectified until many months later. In that time, the new player has tried BGs a few times, gets instantly ganked, only to be t-bagged by the opposing player.
I think you underestimate just how bad the experience is for new players.
Why not just make a set that can be purchased immediately, or even better mail them a set after they complete their first BG, with a retainer that says "Use these next time, I think you will do much better."
How is that different from PvP in any game? For e.g. in CSGO, unless you learn spray patterns, proper movement, tactics and to apply them in a real match, you will get destroyed in PvP. In Destiny 2, unless you get proper items, learn builds and skills, you will get destroyed in a fight. Most PvP games takes a big deal of time to learn. In CSGO, most players never even go beyond average ranks in mm according to official database even after years of playing which means, they get defeated badly by enemies on a regular basis. And guess what? That's okay. Not everybody will be good in every game and they realize that too and they play to have fun and spend time with friends. It is the same for most PvPers in ESO.
The average ESO player does not compare skill level wise to limited number of high skilled playerbase, most of whom regular tourney duelists/1vXers etc. In other games, you generally encounter players around your own skill level. In ESO however, due to how Cyrodiil, essentially a newbie can face an equivalent of a pro and get utterly destroyed. And this happens regularly since the inception of Cyrodiil in ESO. It is not going to change. It is on the player to learn how to fight effectively.
Completely agree. I am hardly great at PvP. At best I reckon I am average.
But... I listen to people. I follow the experienced players and do what they say. You know why? Because like any team game, there is a captain.
Result? I am getting on just fine in Cyrodiil. I don't even die that much these days. And when I do, I don't complain. I get myself back up, and jump right back in with another DK-leap.
It is very, very fun.In-game username: Un1korn | Happy member of the PCNA UESP guild (Resident Daggerfall Covenant enjoyer) | Main & basically only character: Crucian Vulpin, Imperial Dragonknight of the Daggerfall Covenant, and Undaunted Bulwark (I tank) | Mountain bike enjoyer and vulpine appreciator | If you know me from PCEU: No | To ZOS: THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME BRING MY HORSE INTO BATTLE!3 -
MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭ImmortalCX wrote: »But how does a new player know to build a set using these to play pvp? That isn't something a player will figure out until 6-12 months playing.
When you start you are broke, have no cp points, buying gear in the "correct" traits is too expensive, you don't have any crafting lines leveled up. You probably aren't in a guild. You are trying to figure out the game, may have hit level 15 and are learning how to bar swap. Most of the map has not been uncovered. You don't have TTC installed and can't go shopping effectively. You are running random dungeons, not "farming" for a particular set.
Most of the skills you picked are the wrong morph and don't work together. You may have leveld S+B for a dps role. You don't have any assault skill line.
Most of these issues don't get rectified until many months later. In that time, the new player has tried BGs a few times, gets instantly ganked, only to be t-bagged by the opposing player.
I think you underestimate just how bad the experience is for new players.
Why not just make a set that can be purchased immediately, or even better mail them a set after they complete their first BG, with a retainer that says "Use these next time, I think you will do much better."
Two points:
First, even with some kind of cheap pvp starter set, a player as new as you describe will get destroyed for lack of skill.
Second, any player new to an MMO shouldnt expect to be able to do well in PvP from the start. In most mmos, success in pvp requires leveling and getting gear. The game shouldn't be modified to account for unrealistic expectations.“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”3