Expectations (Trailer Hype) vs. Reality (difficulty)

JJBoomer · May 2020

these threads are always so fascinating. this idea that some players should get a say on how everyone gets to play is just so interesting. [snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

Darkrayne · May 2020

JJBoomer wrote: »

these threads are always so fascinating. this idea that some players should get a say on how everyone gets to play is just so interesting. [snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

Saying that is also having your say on how everyone gets to play. You obviously don't get the hypocrisy of it.

Iccotak · May 2020

Skykaiser_Ọlọrun wrote: »

This is honestly one of the biggest reasons why I haven't gotten Greymoor yet.

They're going to spend a year hyping up this paper tiger of a Vampire Lord and in the back of my mind, I know that as soon as I get into the same room with him, he's getting slapped down in 5 seconds.

I made this exact point about a while ago in my post about making a group mode for Final Story Bosses.
When you hype the a story's main antagonist but make it a cakewalk to beat, for both new and vet players, then it comes off as anti-climatic and makes everything we did to accomplish the task feel a bit meaningless.
The only time I felt fulfilled from a story boss was when I defeated Molag Bal.

Why not make a 4 person group mode (or even a Trial version) for the final boss of the main story of the Year? I felt that Kaalgrontiid could have really benefitted from that because his boss fight (as well as the other main dragons) were just mediocre.

Story Boss Group Activity Proposal "Lairs"
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/512278/lairs-proposal-for-a-group-content-setting-of-story-bosses

Shanan · May 2020

Darkrayne wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Darkrayne wrote: »

They should have done it like GW2 does it; make the expansions/chapters for max level characters only.

this would go against normal TES single player gameplay style - for players like me max level is not a goal at all, but to have fun and avoiding to reach "end game", because there group content pressure and toxic gameplay starts and that has to be avoided for as long as possible. A lot play like I do, solo-ing everything and avoiding MMO style group content. For players like me it is still an RPG and all the "end game" content is not compatible with RPG style gameplay. This said, I won't support the game any longer if they level gate Tamriel regions again - this was bad from the very start and should never ever return.

'Endgame' isn't what I'm talking about.

Because lower level characters are scaled 'up' instead of enemies being scaled down, this backwards way of scaling the content means that normal questing is just too easy at any level. This is not how it works in other Elder Scrolls games; the enemies are scaled to 'your' level, not you scaled to 'thier' level.

I'm not saying make the new zones group content, I said max level content. Balanced for characters that have lots of skills and items set bonuses. Make me need to use a potion from time to time when questing solo ffs. Right now, I am literally light attacking my way through Greymoor with 1 pet out 95% of the time.

It's absolutely stupid from a RP point of view as well that every enemy, everywhere is the same strength as every enemy, everywhere. We're just gods in this game. Werewolf? 5 light attacks. Dwaemer Construct? 5 light attacks. Worm Cultist? 5 light attacks. So bored.

so true

lucky_Sage · May 2020

The zone is easier than any other dlc zone the WB are way can’t even take me down past 60% hp murkire wrothgar bosses are a lot harder.
One thing I noticed some bosses have immune periods so players can’t burn in two second. And I am far from a top tier player for PVE

Iccotak · May 2020

Here's my problem with the current Season System

Half the story treats me like a new player.
Sure New Players are missing out on half the current season story and don't even know the rest BUT -

As someone who has been playing since launch back in 2014 and regularly plays the Dungeons & Trials, I do not care for the fact that the story treated me like I was a new player by practically handing me my victory on a silver platter with tedious and underwhelming boss fights that were designed for beginners.

Half the year aims to strictly appease one play-style, Group. While the other half aims to appease a different play-style; Solo. However, as consequence they created an inconsistent story experience with these two extremes - there's no middle ground.

I was mostly fine with how zones are set up because zones also include Public Dungeons, World Bosses, and Dolmens that encourage players to work together.

However, it is no wonder that Solo players are asking for Dungeons with a Solo mode because many are having a hard time keeping track of the story and feel locked out, which also is a bummer for the Role-Player community that likes to take their time with the content.

Meanwhile I love the Dungeon content and I like playing with other people. There is a sense of accomplishment when we beat a Hard Dungeon or Trial - not when I beat something that is clearly designed for new players like the Season Story Bosses are.

Which is why I want a main story with content that I can do with my friends. I want the option for the Big Set pieces - The Final Battle - to have a Dungeon mode because that would be a FUN, Engaging, and Rewarding experience for me.

This is an MMO right? Why wouldn't the main story have challenging content that players could take on Together?
As the current system is - I feel placated by how easy they make the Main Story after they spent about a year hyping up the main villain.

It seems like a simple solution to me. Make the Big set pieces in the Season Story which are the Big Boss Fights & the DLC Dungeons as activities that have
- a Casual Story mode; for first timers or for people to take their time
- a Group Dungeon mode; that has more reward to incentive players to work together

Bakkagami · May 2020

Lysette wrote: »

Darkrayne wrote: »

They should have done it like GW2 does it; make the expansions/chapters for max level characters only.

this would go against normal TES single player gameplay style - for players like me max level is not a goal at all, but to have fun and avoiding to reach "end game", because there group content pressure and toxic gameplay starts and that has to be avoided for as long as possible. A lot play like I do, solo-ing everything and avoiding MMO style group content. For players like me it is still an RPG and all the "end game" content is not compatible with RPG style gameplay. This said, I won't support the game any longer if they level gate Tamriel regions again - this was bad from the very start and should never ever return.

I see this argument alot but can't say I agree that it would go against TES style. Skyrim, for example, had min and max levels for each zone within which the mobs leveled to you( emphasis on the "min" here), fairly certain oblivion had the same. That made it so there was a strength progression to reach certain points while allowing for some leeway in levels needed and as a result, some satisfaction in reaching a point where you can beat some dungeon or group of mobs. Yes you could go anywhere, and yes, you would get your butt handed to you walking into the wrong cave at a low level.

Since 1T, ESO effectively goes the other way, leveling everything down to the player so there is effectively no progression needed throughout . Games on the whole need to balance effort needed vs reward received. After coming back on a new account I can say ESO lacks in the effort needed department for overworld even at low levels.

I'm not saying they should make it so overland zones scale to 810cp or even 300cp as that would be too long of a grind for new players looking to get into them. Something such as zone scaling having a floor from 1-50 or what it was pre-1T while having monster damage/defense scaling up to higher players similarly to GW2 would be better in keeping higher level players at least somewhat engaged while not making zones overly prohibitive for new players.

As a side note, some conditions on certain main quests would be nice since doing some of those out of order just breaks immersion for those interested in that aspect. I don't want the quests to be 100% guided but at the very least some effort should be taken to make sense as to why abnur knows me (or calls me vestige) like I'm a friend when my character first popped up in elsweyr, for example.

kichwas · May 2020

The "problem" is closer to what was observed when WoW launched Classic WoW.

People complained that the devs there had undertuned it, made it too easy. Then the numbers came out showing it was tuned to the exact same difficulty as the original game had been in 2005.

The problem? It was 2019 - and a majority of players had been playing for 10+ years. Player skill had improved.

There's pretty much very little they can do here or there to keep outpacing player skill.

Skykaiser_Ọlọrun · May 2020

Iccotak wrote: »

I made this exact point about a while ago in my post about making a group mode for Final Story Bosses.
When you hype the a story's main antagonist but make it a cakewalk to beat, for both new and vet players, then it comes off as anti-climatic and makes everything we did to accomplish the task feel a bit meaningless.
The only time I felt fulfilled from a story boss was when I defeated Molag Bal.

Why not make a 4 person group mode (or even a Trial version) for the final boss of the main story of the Year? I felt that Kaalgrontiid could have really benefitted from that because his boss fight (as well as the other main dragons) were just mediocre.

Story Boss Group Activity Proposal "Lairs"
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/512278/lairs-proposal-for-a-group-content-setting-of-story-bosses

I don't know if you ever played it, but FF14 handles things similar to what you're suggesting and yeah, it works great (far better than any other MMO handles this sort of thing). Shows that you can have still have a suitably epic boss fight to finish to a storyline without going into ball-busting, God Hard difficulty.

YandereGirlfriend · May 2020

Lysette wrote: »

Darkrayne wrote: »

They should have done it like GW2 does it; make the expansions/chapters for max level characters only.

this would go against normal TES single player gameplay style - for players like me max level is not a goal at all, but to have fun and avoiding to reach "end game", because there group content pressure and toxic gameplay starts and that has to be avoided for as long as possible. A lot play like I do, solo-ing everything and avoiding MMO style group content. For players like me it is still an RPG and all the "end game" content is not compatible with RPG style gameplay. This said, I won't support the game any longer if they level gate Tamriel regions again - this was bad from the very start and should never ever return.

Level-scaling in TES only began in Oblivion. In Morrowind, if you went to the wrong areas too early you would get wrecked. That is now most RPGs have historically been designed. The Oblivion/Skyrim model is the historical aberration.

Iccotak · May 2020

Skykaiser_Ọlọrun wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

I made this exact point about a while ago in my post about making a group mode for Final Story Bosses.
When you hype the a story's main antagonist but make it a cakewalk to beat, for both new and vet players, then it comes off as anti-climatic and makes everything we did to accomplish the task feel a bit meaningless.
The only time I felt fulfilled from a story boss was when I defeated Molag Bal.

Why not make a 4 person group mode (or even a Trial version) for the final boss of the main story of the Year? I felt that Kaalgrontiid could have really benefitted from that because his boss fight (as well as the other main dragons) were just mediocre.

Story Boss Group Activity Proposal "Lairs"
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/512278/lairs-proposal-for-a-group-content-setting-of-story-bosses

I don't know if you ever played it, but FF14 handles things similar to what you're suggesting and yeah, it works great (far better than any other MMO handles this sort of thing). Shows that you can have still have a suitably epic boss fight to finish to a storyline without going into ball-busting, God Hard difficulty.

My idea may not neccessarily be right course of action.
Before One Tamriel Mannimarco and Molag Bal were actually difficult

So it is more likely that overworld content and Story content need to be balanced out so then it can actually be difficult again.

Otherwise Overland & Story feel like playing Skyrim on Novice.