Expectations (Trailer Hype) vs. Reality (difficulty)

Shanan

Is it just me? Im watching this awesome Greymoor Cinematic Trailer and im super hyped for those epic battles.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=C2TUC4j03tY

While questing (dont get me wrong - i do like the quests and storytelling a lot) the level of difficulty bores me.
Even without cps im absolutey crushing every mobs, aoe farming them, boss mobs are a joke and getting rekted.
That's not what I had in mind after i watched the trailer which hyped me a lot.
There are no epic battles, no challenges at all. Feels like im watching a movie.

I remember when eso launched content was super hard. i struggled fighting a necromancer at level 6 and wiped a lot.

I want to earn the reward and not get it for free!!

Iccotak

It’s something that I think Zenimax could better balance out.
I understand that people want to quest by themselves like they did in the single player games BUT the single player titles weren’t ubiquitous with “Easy”.
Hard content does not have to be reserved for Group players as we’ve seen with the Maelstrom arena.
There has to be a way to make single player more engaging, because it can get boring if you can curve stomp enemies as a new player.

MartiniDaniels

.....
"Did you already got godslayer achievement?? If not, don't tell game is easy"
"Remove your armor/weapons/abilities, fight with bare fists if you want challenge, that option is always open for you"
"I saw dead AFK people - game is still difficult for newbies"
"Practice shown that harder content is disliked by players, remember a craglorn disaster"
"Every other MMO is as easy or even easier"
"This is not Dark Souls"
"Devs shouldn't waste resources on optional harder modes"

I forgot something?

Darkrayne

ESO has become as casual as a game can get. The problem is there's no vertical progression added each chapter and they have to make sure a level 1 character can do that content too... so a CP 810 or even a level 10 just stomps everything a level 1 with 1 active skill could solo.

That's the problem, One Tamriel, everywhere has to be accessible to a level 1 character. As soon as you get to level 2, you're overpowered.

They should have done it like GW2 does it; make the expansions/chapters for max level characters only.

Lysette

Darkrayne wrote: »

They should have done it like GW2 does it; make the expansions/chapters for max level characters only.

this would go against normal TES single player gameplay style - for players like me max level is not a goal at all, but to have fun and avoiding to reach "end game", because there group content pressure and toxic gameplay starts and that has to be avoided for as long as possible. A lot play like I do, solo-ing everything and avoiding MMO style group content. For players like me it is still an RPG and all the "end game" content is not compatible with RPG style gameplay. This said, I won't support the game any longer if they level gate Tamriel regions again - this was bad from the very start and should never ever return.

Gythral

Expectations
a working product
Reality
....

Septimus_Magna

Darkrayne wrote: »

They should have done it like GW2 does it; make the expansions/chapters for max level characters only.

Yes, I completely agree! Players who havent reached CP160 have plenty of vanilla content to explore so there's no reason why there cannot be some challenge in new zones/chapters.

ESO overland feels like playing Skyrim on Novice difficulty.

Eifleber

Lysette wrote: »

(make the expansions/chapters for max level characters only)

this would go against normal TES single player gameplay style - for players like me max level is not a goal at all, but to have fun and avoiding to reach "end game", because there group content pressure and toxic gameplay starts and that has to be avoided for as long as possible.

But how does that matter? Being or not being max level won' t force you into doing anything.

You spend being max level (CP160+) for 95% of your playtime anyway and after your 1st character the others automatically get your max CP.
Why then should 95% of the game be catered towards those who aren't max level yet?

In my opinion the road towards CP160 is just a kind of tutorial phase.
*

Shanan

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Darkrayne wrote: »

ESO overland feels like playing Skyrim on Novice difficulty.

thiiiiiiiiiiiiiis.

Skykaiser_Ọlọrun

This is honestly one of the biggest reasons why I haven't gotten Greymoor yet.

They're going to spend a year hyping up this paper tiger of a Vampire Lord and in the back of my mind, I know that as soon as I get into the same room with him, he's getting slapped down in 5 seconds.

rei91

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

.....
"Did you already got godslayer achievement?? If not, don't tell game is easy"
"Remove your armor/weapons/abilities, fight with bare fists if you want challenge, that option is always open for you"
"I saw dead AFK people - game is still difficult for newbies"
"Practice shown that harder content is disliked by players, remember a craglorn disaster"
"Every other MMO is as easy or even easier"
"This is not Dark Souls"
"Devs shouldn't waste resources on optional harder modes"

I forgot something?

Hey you forgot "disable your CP"! ))

Let's see if someone creative will add something else to this list of "qUeStS CaN nOt bE ChAlLenGiNg FiNd YoUr HaRd MoDe Somewhere else"
(got tired writing like that at the end)

rei91

(I suspect at this point adding another thing like any kind of difficulty toggle will probably set servers on fire though)

Sarousse

The zone is insanely well done, but everything is *** up because of the difficulty level, as usual.

Boring. Insanely boring.

MartiniDaniels

rei91 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

.....
"Did you already got godslayer achievement?? If not, don't tell game is easy"
"Remove your armor/weapons/abilities, fight with bare fists if you want challenge, that option is always open for you"
"I saw dead AFK people - game is still difficult for newbies"
"Practice shown that harder content is disliked by players, remember a craglorn disaster"
"Every other MMO is as easy or even easier"
"This is not Dark Souls"
"Devs shouldn't waste resources on optional harder modes"

I forgot something?

Hey you forgot "disable your CP"! ))

Let's see if someone creative will add something else to this list of "qUeStS CaN nOt bE ChAlLenGiNg FiNd YoUr HaRd MoDe Somewhere else"
(got tired writing like that at the end)

Oh, my bad. I thought that playing without CP is default option like every player should play. CP is for the weak same as abilities, passives, armor, weapons, you gather them for collection and achievements and don't use. ESO is punch simulator, go against elite mobs with bare fists like true nord, something like that

Everstorm

One of those topics that is extensively debated by the players that ZOS utterly and completely ignores.

EmEm_Oh

Play with no armor sets, only weapons. It makes it a little more challenging.

Sarousse

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

Play with no armor sets, only weapons. It makes it a little more challenging.

You can play naked without weapons and champion points, you will still destroy whole overland content beside world bosses/harrowstorms.

Linaleah

Sarousse wrote: »

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

Play with no armor sets, only weapons. It makes it a little more challenging.

You can play naked without weapons and champion points, you will still destroy whole overland content beside world bosses/harrowstorms.

you will. i won't.

not all of us are super amazing badass gamers like you are.

I was playing an alt that was a crafting mule so i didn't upgrade her gear, and barely had some skills leveled (also completely forgot to distribute cp). just to unlock Dragonguard sanctum - I died if there was more then one mob in a pull. yep. there is a part where you have to kill a boss, of sorts - the person you are taking a ship from. one mule she killed. couple others, she came to killing them pretty close. I am familiar enough with the game to know when to block, when to roll, when to interrupt and not to stand in red. I know how to use self heals. I just happened not to have any pots saved up on those mules, or buff food. oh and things DEFINITELY took a long way to die.

I. had. hard. time. with basic. quests. and while very VERY mediocre player, I'm not a complete newbie either.

you don't have these issues? good for you. NOT EVERYONE IS YOU.

Moloch1514

Can't ruin the experience for the true end-gamers: housing, crafting, and RP whales.

eKsDee

Linaleah wrote: »

Sarousse wrote: »

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

Play with no armor sets, only weapons. It makes it a little more challenging.

You can play naked without weapons and champion points, you will still destroy whole overland content beside world bosses/harrowstorms.

you will. i won't.

not all of us are super amazing badass gamers like you are.

I was playing an alt that was a crafting mule so i didn't upgrade her gear, and barely had some skills leveled (also completely forgot to distribute cp). just to unlock Dragonguard sanctum - I died if there was more then one mob in a pull. yep. there is a part where you have to kill a boss, of sorts - the person you are taking a ship from. one mule she killed. couple others, she came to killing them pretty close. I am familiar enough with the game to know when to block, when to roll, when to interrupt and not to stand in red. I know how to use self heals. I just happened not to have any pots saved up on those mules, or buff food. oh and things DEFINITELY took a long way to die.

I. had. hard. time. with basic. quests. and while very VERY mediocre player, I'm not a complete newbie either.

you don't have these issues? good for you. NOT EVERYONE IS YOU.

Difficulty slider. Debuff. Optional damage done/received adjustments. Not hard to implement, solves this problem beautifully.

rei91

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

Play with no armor sets, only weapons. It makes it a little more challenging.

Already. Without food. Doesn't help very much.

Linaleah wrote: »

Sarousse wrote: »

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

Play with no armor sets, only weapons. It makes it a little more challenging.

You can play naked without weapons and champion points, you will still destroy whole overland content beside world bosses/harrowstorms.

I. had. hard. time. with basic. quests. and while very VERY mediocre player, I'm not a complete newbie either.

you don't have these issues? good for you. NOT EVERYONE IS YOU.

This is an optional thing everyone asking for. Some kind of toggle, not obligatory for everyone.
And btw - my dps when "getting serious" is barely 20k. So I'm far from top tier too...

It's just quests being horribly anticlimactic.

LuxLunae

All I want zos to do is put a option in the options that has difficulty level?

normal
Like basic vet dungeons
Like new vet dungeons
Like new vet trials

Linaleah

eKsDee wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Sarousse wrote: »

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

Play with no armor sets, only weapons. It makes it a little more challenging.

You can play naked without weapons and champion points, you will still destroy whole overland content beside world bosses/harrowstorms.

you will. i won't.

not all of us are super amazing badass gamers like you are.

I was playing an alt that was a crafting mule so i didn't upgrade her gear, and barely had some skills leveled (also completely forgot to distribute cp). just to unlock Dragonguard sanctum - I died if there was more then one mob in a pull. yep. there is a part where you have to kill a boss, of sorts - the person you are taking a ship from. one mule she killed. couple others, she came to killing them pretty close. I am familiar enough with the game to know when to block, when to roll, when to interrupt and not to stand in red. I know how to use self heals. I just happened not to have any pots saved up on those mules, or buff food. oh and things DEFINITELY took a long way to die.

I. had. hard. time. with basic. quests. and while very VERY mediocre player, I'm not a complete newbie either.

you don't have these issues? good for you. NOT EVERYONE IS YOU.

Difficulty slider. Debuff. Optional damage done/received adjustments. Not hard to implement, solves this problem beautifully.

no, it does NOT.

the only way to even begin to fix this challenge issue is 1. different instances. yes. different instances. how there used to be vet zones, how there are currently dungeons. 2. and this one is a difficult one, but its the only actual solution. SHRINK DOWN THE POWER/SKILL CREEP. which is never happening, because a. people do not want to give up their fast paced combat (and that is partly what's causing the gap, different levels of reflexes) and b. for all the complains about easy, the moment ZoS nerfs uper ceiling for damage even a tiny bit? PEOPLE COMPLAIN. A LOT.

these issues you people are having? are primarily due to power creep.

and btw, I would love to actualy see a character that is naked and using no weapons - smashing their way through overworld. you know, not being in any danger, killing things fairly quickly. I'd love to see people show how they would do that on different classes, magika vs stam. do the actual ironman challenge. stream it live so there is no doubt that they are fudging results in any way. because I have a feeling there is a good bit of hyperbole involved there.

Linaleah

rei91 wrote: »

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

Play with no armor sets, only weapons. It makes it a little more challenging.

Already. Without food. Doesn't help very much.

Linaleah wrote: »

Sarousse wrote: »

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

Play with no armor sets, only weapons. It makes it a little more challenging.

You can play naked without weapons and champion points, you will still destroy whole overland content beside world bosses/harrowstorms.

I. had. hard. time. with basic. quests. and while very VERY mediocre player, I'm not a complete newbie either.

you don't have these issues? good for you. NOT EVERYONE IS YOU.

This is an optional thing everyone asking for. Some kind of toggle, not obligatory for everyone.
And btw - my dps when "getting serious" is barely 20k. So I'm far from top tier too...

It's just quests being horribly anticlimactic.

your average leveling character, maybe does 2-3k dps. if they scale it for you - they cannot do the content anymore, and someone who is currently doing say 40k (also not top tier - but twice of what you are doing) is still going to have it "too easy" and no toggle in a world will fix THAT.

Dusk_Coven

ZOS can protect the story experience by doing what SWTOR does -- move key story scenes and story arcs into private instances and soloable dungeons. If you need help you can get someone to group with you, but otherwise they can control the difficulty.

In overland and public spaces, attempts to control difficulty are useless because other people are there. They can come by and do it for you. Or you can bring too many people and make meaningless any increase in difficulty. And when the loot is too good compared to the convenience, you get loot farming like Alik'r Dolmens and Southern Elsweyr Dragons.

Stories need to be told more in private instances. There, they can give you a difficulty slider (for example) and it won't bother anyone else. Or soloable dungeons where you can choose normal, veteran, or hardmode to continue your story experience.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

A few weeks ago i helped a new guild mate a bit with her dps her starting pointwas 3.4kdps, yes you read it right 3.4k, no aoe, 10k health
She had a real hard time with some quest

Kiralyn2000

Guess it all depends on your expectations.

As someone who's played the game before, I know what I expect from overland. And no Big Dramatic Trailer will change that - I've also been a gamer long enough to know that setting my expectations for any game by it's Big Trailer is foolishness.

ragnarok6644b14_ESO

"Why aren't there any tanks in the queue? Queueing as DPS sucks. No one plays tanks!" - DPS players

"I kill stuff too quickly! Make it harder to kill stuff for me (and therefore even grindy-er to level for tanks)!" - also DPS players

OlumoGarbag

Have you tried running crusty bread and no mundus. Its Overland quester meta.

Darkrayne

Lysette wrote: »

Darkrayne wrote: »

They should have done it like GW2 does it; make the expansions/chapters for max level characters only.

this would go against normal TES single player gameplay style - for players like me max level is not a goal at all, but to have fun and avoiding to reach "end game", because there group content pressure and toxic gameplay starts and that has to be avoided for as long as possible. A lot play like I do, solo-ing everything and avoiding MMO style group content. For players like me it is still an RPG and all the "end game" content is not compatible with RPG style gameplay. This said, I won't support the game any longer if they level gate Tamriel regions again - this was bad from the very start and should never ever return.

'Endgame' isn't what I'm talking about.

Because lower level characters are scaled 'up' instead of enemies being scaled down, this backwards way of scaling the content means that normal questing is just too easy at any level. This is not how it works in other Elder Scrolls games; the enemies are scaled to 'your' level, not you scaled to 'thier' level.

I'm not saying make the new zones group content, I said max level content. Balanced for characters that have lots of skills and items set bonuses. Make me need to use a potion from time to time when questing solo ffs. Right now, I am literally light attacking my way through Greymoor with 1 pet out 95% of the time.

It's absolutely stupid from a RP point of view as well that every enemy, everywhere is the same strength as every enemy, everywhere. We're just gods in this game. Werewolf? 5 light attacks. Dwaemer Construct? 5 light attacks. Worm Cultist? 5 light attacks. So bored.

Malprave

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

.....
"Did you already got godslayer achievement?? If not, don't tell game is easy"
"Remove your armor/weapons/abilities, fight with bare fists if you want challenge, that option is always open for you"
"I saw dead AFK people - game is still difficult for newbies"
"Practice shown that harder content is disliked by players, remember a craglorn disaster"
"Every other MMO is as easy or even easier"
"This is not Dark Souls"
"Devs shouldn't waste resources on optional harder modes"

I forgot something?

You could have added “You’ve already soloed all world bosses in Western Skyrim?”