LAIRS: Proposal for a Group Content Setting of Story Bosses

Iccotak

What is this: Proposal for a new form of OPTIONAL Group Content that utilizes the Story Bosses.
NOTES:
- I am already seeing mistakes from people that didn't read the whole thing and made assumptions. If you want to discuss please read the whole post first.
- This is about the Gameplay experience of the Story for both New & Vet Players
- This is NOT about availability of Group activities in the game.
- This is NOT about gating story for new players

The Reason
At the end of the day; I don't see a reason why the Big Bad of an MMO (that is a threat to the whole world) should not get a group activity.
I understand that the final story bosses are designed for New players to make them feel like winners BUT that is not a good system for the long term.
Hyping up a Baddie over the course of the game OR a year+ long story arc only have it end with a lackluster boss fight is always disappointing.

Game-play is intrinsically part of the Story experience.
What about the already invested players who have stuck with the game since the beginning? Why should the story game-play experience only cater to new players who are just getting into the story that some of us have been playing for over 5 years now?
Marketing a New Story to invested players, as well as integrating the Dungeons more into the story, but making the Final Boss in Story installments New Player Friendly ONLY, with no choices in difficulty, makes no sense.

BASICS
Story Bosses were essentially Solo dungeons so now they will be repeatable content with an optional group setting that players can unlock
These Lairs will get their own tab in the Group Finder because they are unlocked by playing the story. (and do not play like the typical dungeon)

Lairs will have three settings:
- Solo: Initial version that players go through during the story. Capped at 2 players
- Normal: Group setting
- Veteran: Group Setting with an optional Hard Mode at the end

These activities cover the Base game, Daedric War, Season of the Dragon, the Dark Heart of Skyrim, and all future DLCs/Chapters.

Lairs will either have to be unlocked on each character (as to encourage players to do the story again) or will be unlocked on the whole Account.

There will be a Lair for the Bosses of the following;
- Base Game
- Morrowind
- Clockwork City
- Summerset
- Murkmire

Followed by the Final bosses of "Season of the Dragon";
- Mulaamnir
- Laatvulon
- Kaalgrontiid

Full Break-Down

13 NEW group activities in Total.
Planemeld

Lair: Daughter of Giants - Rescue Lyris from Coldharbour

Lair: Castle of the Worm - Rescue Abnur Tharn from the "Castle of the Worm"

Lair: Halls of Torment - Rescue Sai Sahan from the Halls of Torment

Lair: Vault of Kings - Help the Companions obtain the Amulet of Kings before Mannimarco

Lair: The God of Schemes - Make your way to Molag Bal and defeat the God of Schemes

Orsinium

Lair: Scarp Keep - Stop King Kurog from killing the Orc Clan Chiefs

Daedric War

Lair: The Clockwork Vault - Defeat Barbas in the Clockwork City to restore Vivec

Lair: Cogitum Centralis - Find the Shadow of Sotha Sil and stop him before the Clockwork city is lost forever

Lair: The Crystal Tower - stop Nocturnal before she uses the tower to remake reality.

Murkmire

Lair: Vakka-Bok Xanmeer - Prevent Kassandra from acquiring the Remnant of Argon

Season of the Dragon

Lair: Jode's Core - defend Jode's core and defeat Mulaamnir

Lair: Doomstone Keep - Assist Nahfahlar end a feud with Laatvulon and save Elsweyr

Lair: Dragonhold - Journey to Dragonhold and Defeat Kaalgrontiid to save Tamriel

Rewards
Lairs will have their own rewards for both gameplay and cosmetics
Meaning that they will come with the typical Light, Medium, and Heavy sets as well as Monster Helm + Shoulder.

Cosmetics
From Achievements for the Veteran Dragonhold Lair
- Signature: Nahfahlar theme Helmet + Shoulder
- Nahfahlar Imp pet

Undaunted: Lair Weekly
At the Undaunted Camp meet a mysterious Argonian character known as (NAME) he seems to have something important to tell you. He will tell you a cryptic message of your destiny and you must go out and face it. The Argonian will cycle Lairs every week.

What is the purpose of this Proposal?
The point of this proposed activity is to be incentive for players, both new & old, to play the story content as well as make use of existing Story Bosses. It can feel disappointing when players go from hard Dungeon Activities & Trials to Story bosses (that the whole story arc was building up) that are so easy a novice could beat it.

Why not make Story Bosses that are a big challenge and also offer great reward? Make the Final Boss something for players to look forward to.
Overall adds more to the base game and add-on content. More engagement and more group content that makes for a better Story game-play experience.

Alienoutlaw

asking or telling?

MattT1988

This looks familiar. Wasn’t this idea posted recently? And if so why did you feel the need to post it again?

FierceSam

Hmm how about...

Dungeons.

With different bosses.

Harder than the main storyline.

Kombinator

Nah. If you wana do it again, then just start new character.

Iccotak

MattT1988 wrote: »

This looks familiar. Wasn’t this idea posted recently? And if so why did you feel the need to post it again?

This was modified and removed the idea of "Solo Dungeons" because that is what people focused on.

FierceSam wrote: »

Hmm how about...

Dungeons.

With different bosses.

Harder than the main storyline.

Not everyone is happy with the system as it is.
I think Lairs would bring a more consistent story gameplay experience.
The Final Story Boss doesn't have to be Easy. They could actually make them cool fights

Kombinator wrote: »

Nah. If you wana do it again, then just start new character.

It's not about doing them again. It's about utilizing existing assets and making the story bosses not feel like a joke. It's an MMO the story should have optional harder content for group players.

Iccotak

This thread is perfect example of what I am talking about:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/511873/sancre-tor-this-is-how-easy-the-game-has-become/p1

Come on ZOS, this quest used to scare people 5 years ago! It was also a quest where you learned to kite, dodge roll and block for incoming damage as if you were running a dungeon solo.

I am level 21, using crafted Hunding/s/Nightmother level 16 gear (all training trait) and Orzorga's Tripe Trifle Pocket for food. Bow skill line at level 10 when I started the quest.

I just bow light attacked myself through the whole quest... Health didn't even drop below 24K... Didn't even have to use healing skills...

Mannimarco is laughably easy now. But I still have a bit of difficulty with the one before it, at the Abbey of Blades, with the resurrected Yokuden warriors.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

@Artemiisia what are you walking about? How can you say new players won't learn anything when you had to learn to interrupt on that fight? It takes 10sec for you now because it isn't meant for you

I think you missed something, I fought that fight 5 years ago when it was hard and you needed to use interrupt in the fight due to our damage was like 2-5k only, max level dps when the first raid came out was only 10k dps. it was when it was hard and where you needed to learn the actual mechanics of the fight to beat it

now with a new char, you can go there lowlevel, without champion points, and destroy everything in the fight before needing to use interrupt since fight is over in 10 secs

You can. You're not a new player. It's not meant for you. That's not the new player experience lol

CASP3R421 wrote: »

all topworld quests are carebear now to appease RPers who "just want to get the story"

Failing at a fight then beating it is one of the most satisfying things in MMOs.

It also trains a player for more difficult things to come.

This thread isn’t about making things deathly hard, but adding some difficulty so everything outside of a dungeon or PvP isn’t boringly easy.

It got to the point where I can’t even get past Cadwell’s Silver/Gold because I get bored and log off after a few quest hubs.

THIS is why I proposed a group setting for Story Bosses. Because it's an easy one-off boss when they could be way more exciting. WHY doesn't the story cater to Vet players? Why should it only cater to new people? There has to be a better compromise.
Have a story system for both New & Vet players

Taleof2Cities

Iccotak wrote: »

It's an MMO the story should have optional harder content for group players.

I’ve asked in a number of other threads but never received a good answer:

Why do players want harder group content when they don’t participate in the harder group content that’s already in the game?

Iccotak

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

It's an MMO the story should have optional harder content for group players.

I’ve asked in a number of other threads but never received a good answer:

Why do players want harder group content when they don’t participate in the harder group content that’s already in the game?

@Taleof2Cities
I do participate in that content and I love it.
It has more to do with the fact that the Story Bosses (like Mannimarco & Kaalgrontiid) were really hyped up but ultimately disappointing for experienced players. It's anti-climatic because it took no effort to beat them and then it feels like insincere flattery when the NPCs heap praise on us.

I understand that they are designed for New players to make them feel like winners BUT that is not a good system in the long run.
Hyping up a Baddie over the course of the game OR a year+ long story arc only have it end with a lackluster boss fight is always disappointing.
It doesn't have to be so that Story is only new players. It separates the player base too much. We can have a system that caters to both sides.

ZOS tried integrating group content (Trials) into the story for Craglorn but that resulted in a backlash. So this is a compromise.
Creating a group content Setting so that new players can experience the story AND Vets can have a rewarding End Boss game-play experience.
At the end of the day I don't see a reason why the Big Bad of an MMO (that is a threat to the whole world) shouldn't get a group activity

Starlock

Sure, why not? Let’s get story mode for 4-person dungeons too while we’re at it!

Iccotak

Starlock wrote: »

Sure, why not? Let’s get story mode for 4-person dungeons too while we’re at it!

I tried having that discussion but it went nowhere as people focused too heavily on the "Solo" idea rather than "group mode"
You can check it out here
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/509067/solo-group-settings-play-the-way-you-want/p1

bmnoble

Kinda feels like group delves from Craglorn.

Iccotak

bmnoble wrote: »

Kinda feels like group delves from Craglorn.

sure but its an optional setting

Katahdin

No

I do not want to have to group up to complete story content. I enjoy the story for the story. There are plentry of vet dungeons and trials for "challenging" group content

Iccotak

Katahdin wrote: »

No

I do not want to have to group up to complete story content. I enjoy the story for the story. There are plentry of vet dungeons and trials for "challenging" group content

I said Option as in it is a Setting that players can choose - not a requirement

Did no one read the post?

stevenyaub16_ESO

So what you suggest is take solo quests, beef them up and make them into dungeons? I just see that as a watered down dungeon, and would rather they work on new dungeons and content.

Banana

Solo mode

Iccotak

stevenyaub16_ESO wrote: »

So what you suggest is take solo quests, beef them up and make them into dungeons? I just see that as a watered down dungeon, and would rather they work on new dungeons and content.

as an optional group content but also mainly an engaging final boss
EDIT: Also it doesn't have to be one or the other, we can have both

Banana wrote: »

Solo mode

plenty of threads discuss this

SassiestAssassin

I like the idea of having an optional story hard mode unlocked at 160cp. Maybe getting extra gold/better gear drops. Something like Borderlands’ True Vault Hunter Mode.

Not totally sold on specific group modes, it’s hard enough to find people who want to queue for dungeons. If the lair could automatically scale to the number of players though... but that’s wishful thinking.

It could be baby players’ first introduction to one shots and hard dungeon mechanics, instead of them accidentally getting vSCP on their random queue.

I’d be down to try and fight Molag Bal again and have it be a challenge for sure.

Mettaricana

FierceSam wrote: »

Hmm how about...

Dungeons.

With different bosses.

Harder than the main storyline.

So darkshade 1 and dark shade 2

Maybe dark shade 3 for example

idk

I thought we had group bosses already. We just call the instances they are in dungeons and trials and arenas.

Iccotak

idk wrote: »

I thought we had group bosses already. We just call the instances they are in dungeons and trials and arenas.

Its about the game-play experience of the story
Not availability of group content

Why do I have to keep pointing this out?

Iccotak

Added to the OP
- I am already seeing mistakes from people that didn't read the whole thing and made assumptions. If you want to discuss please read the whole post first.
- This is about the Gameplay experience of the Story for both New & Vet Players
- This is NOT about availability of Group activities in the game.
- This is NOT about gating story for new players

Marketing a New Story to invested players, as well as integrating the Dungeons more into the Story, but making the Final Boss in Story installments New Player Friendly ONLY, with no choices in difficulty, makes no sense.

idk

Iccotak wrote: »

Added to the OP
- I am already seeing mistakes from people that didn't read the whole thing and made assumptions. If you want to discuss please read the whole post first.
- This is about the Gameplay experience of the Story for both New & Vet Players
- This is NOT about availability of Group activities in the game.
- This is NOT about gating story for new players

Marketing a New Story to invested players, as well as integrating the Dungeons more into the Story, but making the Final Boss in Story installments New Player Friendly ONLY, with no choices in difficulty, makes no sense.

Granted, the organization of the original post is a little mixed up. However, you keep talking about this idea is about group play. As such it is relevant to discuss the availability of group play in the game regardless of how much you prefer us not to.

Further, if we are talking about watered-down group play that can easily be cleared by 4 dps then what is the point. It would be a joke and pointless. If we are talking about something more challenging then we are also talking about significantly more work to design and cost vs benefit comes into play for Zos.

Regardless, you are still asking for more group content.

Iccotak

Sad fact is unless there is some surprise this season in Q4 then I am certain that the final boss, that the Dark Heart of Skyrim is building up to, will be a piece of cake removing any tension and excitement for defeating them.

There's this idea which I admit is complicated and would take time but could be worth it for the Epic gameplay experience as well as adding more to existing & future content.

OR

Balance out One Tamriel difficulty. I've played a character from scratch with no CP and I still had a fairly easy time.
Mannimarco and Molag Bal actually used to be hard before One Tamriel. Solo play does not have to be mind numbingly Easy.
It also might encourage two friends to quest together for social and practical reasons leading to a more engaging experience.