PTS Update 26 - Feedback Thread for Antiquities

Qbiken · May 2020

@HumbleThaumaturge
Did you level up these skillines from scratch up to level 10? If so, how long would you estimate it takes to max out both skillines?

SantieClaws · May 2020

This one will say from her own experience that it took about four days to get to level 7. At this level you can dig for gold things.

Her strategy yes was to go for whatever she could in very small zones. Thus increasing the chance of the dig site not being far away.

This she did in one small zone until it drove her slightly mad then she moved on to another small zone.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

HumbleThaumaturge · May 2020

I was not keeping good track of the time spent on Antiquities, as I was also running the new world bosses, ritual circles, delves, and public dungeons. I would guess it will take 30 to 40 hours. Obviously, time will be shorter once a player understands the Antiquities system and how to best use one's time to maximize leveling per hour. You get skill tree points (for leveling) from Excavations, but not from just Scrying. You also get points for completing the Greymoor/Antiquities achievements.

Gandamir · May 2020

I got a loading screen in Craglorn when doing an excavation. After the loading screen, it looked like this:

There was no way to see or get to the rest of the dig.

Olauron · May 2020

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Guilds & Guild Functionality
Added “Antiquities” to the list of additional activities a guild can flag in their recruitment listing, and that can be searched for, in the Guild Finder.

But what's the point if 99.999% of antiquities are bound and can't be shared with guild members in any form?

SantieClaws · May 2020

Olauron wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Guilds & Guild Functionality
Added “Antiquities” to the list of additional activities a guild can flag in their recruitment listing, and that can be searched for, in the Guild Finder.

But what's the point if 99.999% of antiquities are bound and can't be shared with guild members in any form?

Also it is a solo activity no? You cannot group up on a Saturday night and go and hunt the same antiquity together?

You can go lead hunting together for sure but given they are so random would you join a guild for this reason?

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

KMarble · May 2020

Olauron wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Guilds & Guild Functionality
Added “Antiquities” to the list of additional activities a guild can flag in their recruitment listing, and that can be searched for, in the Guild Finder.

But what's the point if 99.999% of antiquities are bound and can't be shared with guild members in any form?

Not only that. Antiquities was advertised as a solo activity, in fact, it was one of its "selling points" which was stressed more than once on the streams about the new chapter. AFAIK we cannot group up for digging and/or scrying.

Unless some guilds decide to prohibit their members from linking antiquities they found in guild chat, I see no point for that to be added.

Olauron · May 2020

SantieClaws wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Guilds & Guild Functionality
Added “Antiquities” to the list of additional activities a guild can flag in their recruitment listing, and that can be searched for, in the Guild Finder.

But what's the point if 99.999% of antiquities are bound and can't be shared with guild members in any form?

Also it is a solo activity no? You cannot group up on a Saturday night and go and hunt the same antiquity together?

You can go lead hunting together for sure but given they are so random would you join a guild for this reason?

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

It seems so. Even fishing is more group (and guild) oriented activity than antiquities.

Alendrin · May 2020

Bug - if excavating, getting into combat pulls you out of the dig and bugs out your character so that you have to force quit the game. tested today, 6.0.4

Alendrin · May 2020

Gandamir wrote: »

I got a loading screen in Craglorn when doing an excavation. After the loading screen, it looked like this:

I got a lot of random loading screens on the pts in base game and dlc zones. Forums should be interesting after this update launches.

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2020

Just did some more digging on PTS, in Craglorn.

PLEASE do NOT put dig sites in group areas in Craglorn. Antiquities is a solo activity and should definitely not force you to ask some friends to help you make your way through the mobs in order to reach the dig sites.

(I'm specifically referring to a dig site forcing me to make my way through half of the Elinir group area).

Elsonso · May 2020

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Just did some more digging on PTS, in Craglorn.

PLEASE do NOT put dig sites in group areas in Craglorn. Antiquities is a solo activity and should definitely not force you to ask some friends to help you make your way through the mobs in order to reach the dig sites.

(I'm specifically referring to a dig site forcing me to make my way through half of the Elinir group area).

They want people to group up to do a solo activity?

HumbleThaumaturge · May 2020

HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »

In a previous post (#236), I was wondering if the "Meticulous Digger" achievement (under Antiquities) was working correctly. The achievement reads, "Complete an excavation on Epic Difficulty or higher while dealing zero damage to the antiquity." Elsewhere in the ESO, "Epic" means purple-quality. I have completely Excavating many purple-quality items without damage, yet had not received the "Meticulous Digger" achievement. Having recently reached level 10 on Scrying and Excavating, I excavating my first gold-quality antiquity. This time I got the "Meticulous Digger" achievement. So, it would seem that "Epic Difficulty" means gold-quality or higher? What up with this achievement?

I have verified that this issue was fixed with v6.0.4. With a different character, I excavated a purple-quality ("Advanced") lead, and received the "Meticulous Digger" achievement Prior to v6.0.4, I did not receive this achievement until I Excavated a gold-quality lead. Thanks for fixing!

Kelinmiriel · May 2020

PLEASE AVOID WORST AREAS
Elinhir in Craglorn; quest-locked northern Coldharbour

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Just did some more digging on PTS, in Craglorn.

PLEASE do NOT put dig sites in group areas in Craglorn. Antiquities is a solo activity and should definitely not force you to ask some friends to help you make your way through the mobs in order to reach the dig sites.

(I'm specifically referring to a dig site forcing me to make my way through half of the Elinir group area).

I also got one in Elinhir today. It was pretty challenging to get to it by myself. If I was on live, I probably would've asked for help to get there. This is such an absurdly solo activity, one should never have to bother other people for help.

Even worse - I have one in Coldharbour that I DID get assistance for, getting to the Endless Stair wayshrine, but the location is just south of there, and cannot be accessed. It's quest locked. This area should never spawn antiquities, PLEASE!!

You should never require anyone to complete the entire main quest line to get to an antiquity!

Kelinmiriel · May 2020

PLEASE SHOW DIFFICULTY LEVEL ON LEADS
(at least on gold master/ultimate)

I discovered something really irritating that occurs between Scrying skill levels 7 and 10 - which is almost 2/3 of the time it takes to level up, it turns out, as hitting level 7 turned out to be only 38% of level 10.

The lower levels of Scrying make it simple to tell which leads you are capable of using when. You unlock green ones, then blue, then purple. But when you reach level 7 and unlock gold, you don't unlock ALL of the gold ones, only those with "Master" difficulty.

The problem with this is that there's no indication of difficulty level on leads unless you are in the zone where it can be used.

Could this please be added on the tooltip, at least for gold ones? Either that, or separate under zones those which can't be done yet because of skill level?

The first time I traveled to collect a gold antiquity that turned out to be "Ultimate" after reaching level 7, only to discover that
1. It wasn't unlocked yet
2. It wouldn't be unlocked until level 10
3. I was only 38% of the way to level 10
4. Worst of all, I couldn't tell which of my gold leads I had the skill level to use without traveling to the zone they're in!

... I was about ready to give up on Antiquities entirely, I was so frustrated.

I've gone through them all since then (yes, actually traveled to all the zones to check each one!) and there are only eleven Ultimate. So it's not as bad as I thought.

But PLEASE - don't make people travel to the zone to find out whether or not they can do a gold antiquity! Add the info in some way. Thank you!

Ekzorka · May 2020

Antiquities Tutorial:
Both Scrying and Excavation windows have a little issue - subtitles are not visible. So the only one way to saw a speech is chat with specific settings. Is it possible to display subtitles on top of these windows so everyone who prefers to read subs (especially with translation) can see them?

KMarble · May 2020

Kelinmiriel wrote: »

PLEASE AVOID WORST AREAS
Elinhir in Craglorn; quest-locked northern Coldharbour

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Just did some more digging on PTS, in Craglorn.

PLEASE do NOT put dig sites in group areas in Craglorn. Antiquities is a solo activity and should definitely not force you to ask some friends to help you make your way through the mobs in order to reach the dig sites.

(I'm specifically referring to a dig site forcing me to make my way through half of the Elinir group area).

This area should never spawn antiquities, PLEASE!!

You should never require anyone to complete the entire main quest line to get to an antiquity!

I thought one of the main reasons for the new antiquities system is to entice players to do more content. It's kind of a questing midyear mayhem without the time limit.

I think this was done by design and isn't an oversight.

HumbleThaumaturge · May 2020

Qbiken wrote: »

@HumbleThaumaturge
Did you level up these skillines from scratch up to level 10? If so, how long would you estimate it takes to max out both skillines?

In my first replay to your question (post #244), I said: "I would guess it will take 30 to 40 hours." I have since started leveling the Antiquities skill trees ("Excavation" and "Scrying") with a different character and have some better data for you. My first character, who leveled-up both new skill trees to level 10, spent a great deal of time running delves, public dungeons, world bosses, ritual sites, and dolmen trying to get Antiquities "leads." For this new character, I focused almost entirely on leveling-up the new skill trees. No killing of bosses; no farming of treasure chests.

Sticking strictly to "Scrying" and Excavations starting with the initially-provided Green-quality leads for each zone, I leveled-up as follows:
- After 1 hour: Level 3 on both Scrying and Excavation

HumbleThaumaturge · May 2020

Qbiken wrote: »

@HumbleThaumaturge
Did you level up these skillines from scratch up to level 10? If so, how long would you estimate it takes to max out both skillines?

Whoops! My reply (#259) posted prior to completion; I shall try again.

In my first replay to your question (post #244), I said: "I would guess it will take 30 to 40 hours." I have since started leveling the Antiquities skill trees ("Excavation" and "Scrying") with a different character and have some better data for you. My first character, who leveled-up both new skill trees to level 10, spent a great deal of time running delves, public dungeons, world bosses, ritual sites, and dolmen trying to get Antiquities "leads." For this new character, I focused almost entirely on leveling-up the new skill trees. No killing of bosses; no farming of treasure chests.

Sticking strictly to "Scrying" and Excavations starting with the initially-provided Green-quality leads for each zone, I leveled-up as follows:
- After 1 hour: Level 3 on both Scrying and Excavation skill trees
- 1 hour and 50 minutes: Level 4
- 3 hours and 6 minutes: Level 5 (now able to Excavate purple-quality treasures, "Advanced Difficulty")
- 4 hours and 48 minutes: Level 6
- 8 hours and 17 minutes: Level 7 (now able to Excavate gold-quality treasures, "Master Difficulty")

Combine these results with my previous experience leveling-up another character to level 10, I would estimate that the total time from level 1 to level 10 for the new skill trees might be 21 to 22 hours. I suppose everyone should at least try to make it to Level 7, to be able to scry and excavate for gold-quality treasures. You will need to go all the way to be able to excavate Mythic treasures ("Ultimate Difficulty").

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2020

KMarble wrote: »

I think this was done by design and isn't an oversight.

I've been thinking that, too... maybe it's not an oversight, maybe it's "working as intended".
I hope that's not the case, though...
Incentivising (ooops not sure that word exists, but you get what I mean) is one thing, forcing and gating is another thing.

I hope they fix what I hope is a mistake.

Kelinmiriel · May 2020

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

KMarble wrote: »

I think this was done by design and isn't an oversight.

I've been thinking that, too... maybe it's not an oversight, maybe it's "working as intended".
I hope that's not the case, though...
Incentivising (ooops not sure that word exists, but you get what I mean) is one thing, forcing and gating is another thing.

I hope they fix what I hope is a mistake.

If it was a small side quest, I wouldn't care so much. But seriously - the entire Main quest line?

Also, some people actually prefer to do quests in the order that makes sense for their characters to role play them. They shouldn't be forced to do them faster just to get to a certain area because of a deadline. Leads expire in 30 days. If they didn't expire, it might not matter as much.

ixie · May 2020

Kelinmiriel wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

KMarble wrote: »

I think this was done by design and isn't an oversight.

I've been thinking that, too... maybe it's not an oversight, maybe it's "working as intended".
I hope that's not the case, though...
Incentivising (ooops not sure that word exists, but you get what I mean) is one thing, forcing and gating is another thing.

I hope they fix what I hope is a mistake.

If it was a small side quest, I wouldn't care so much. But seriously - the entire Main quest line?

Also, some people actually prefer to do quests in the order that makes sense for their characters to role play them. They shouldn't be forced to do them faster just to get to a certain area because of a deadline. Leads expire in 30 days. If they didn't expire, it might not matter as much.

Currently on PTS you can abandon your scrying progress without losing the lead, therefore if the dig site is in an area you are unable to get to you are able to abandon and scry again until you find a dig site you are able to reach.

One problem I can think of that could arise is if you were to find a lead for Eyevea in another zone, meaning you would have to complete the Mages Guild quest line to get there.

Artaeum would be a similar problem but it doesn't take much questing to get there.

captioanima · May 2020

Kelinmiriel wrote: »

PLEASE AVOID WORST AREAS
Elinhir in Craglorn; quest-locked northern Coldharbour

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Just did some more digging on PTS, in Craglorn.

PLEASE do NOT put dig sites in group areas in Craglorn. Antiquities is a solo activity and should definitely not force you to ask some friends to help you make your way through the mobs in order to reach the dig sites.

(I'm specifically referring to a dig site forcing me to make my way through half of the Elinir group area).

I also got one in Elinhir today. It was pretty challenging to get to it by myself. If I was on live, I probably would've asked for help to get there. This is such an absurdly solo activity, one should never have to bother other people for help.

Even worse - I have one in Coldharbour that I DID get assistance for, getting to the Endless Stair wayshrine, but the location is just south of there, and cannot be accessed. It's quest locked. This area should never spawn antiquities, PLEASE!!

You should never require anyone to complete the entire main quest line to get to an antiquity!

Had that in Coldharbor as well when I was testing, but you can "go around" that, just stop the search and scry again until you end up in an area you have access to. It´s not ideal but better than nothing.

I fully agree on Craglorn, had to die 5 times to find the damn dig site in some mining area(?) (since you can´t really "stop and look around" if whole groups are after you), and seeing how Craglorn is basically JUST group areas, the method above is more or less useless ---.---

KMarble · May 2020

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

KMarble wrote: »

I think this was done by design and isn't an oversight.

I've been thinking that, too... maybe it's not an oversight, maybe it's "working as intended".
I hope that's not the case, though...
Incentivising (ooops not sure that word exists, but you get what I mean) is one thing, forcing and gating is another thing.

I hope they fix what I hope is a mistake.

I don't want to pick a fight or derail this thread but the game won't be forcing you to do anything. Let me give you an example, if the game stopped working/prevented me from engaging in a fight unless I had (lets say) a vMA lightning staff, that would be forcing me to go do it.
The vMA staff giving me some advantages over other choices might entice me to go get it, but it definitely doesn't force me.

As @captioanima said, there are options. From what I understand the whole system is randomly generated - from the chance of getting a lead, to which lead you get, to where the dig site spawns.

On the first week of PTS, some dig sites where spawning on top of enemy NPCs. That was fixed on the next update. This brings me to dig sites in Craglorn's groups areas. I think that is an oversight, due both to the fact that the devs changed the spawning of dig sites to solve the problem of people being attacked while playing the mini-game, and because even if we complete Craglorn, those mobs will still be there and spawn quite fast.

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2020

KMarble wrote: »

As @captioanima said, there are options. From what I understand the whole system is randomly generated - from the chance of getting a lead, to which lead you get, to where the dig site spawns.

I've not been far enough into the antiquities system to know if you have to complete everything, every zone, to reach the ultimate rewards.
Even then, as you say, there are options and workarounds. In the case of Craglorn, you can reach every dig site, even in group areas, by dying multiple times and walking through the mobs in ghost form. But you cannot call that "playing" nor "propoer design".

The Coldharbour thing is a different story : If you haven't played the main quest there (which is a 6-10 hours affair, even rushing through quests), you can't access your dig site. That's, imho, bad design. Cancelling the scrying and starting over until the digging zone is randomly chosen in an accessible area is an unnatural workaround that, while potentially efficient, should not be required.

What I meant by "forcing" (without going into a semantics discussion here) is that this new system is meant to add replayability value to the old base game zones. They are beautiful, each with their own distinctive touch, and, while II can go there without a reason, if I can go back there with a reason, the better. But I don't think gating access behind quest completion is a good idea at all. Especially since (if you're like me) you don't go questing with the same mindset as other activities. You can go antiquities hunting while chatting with guildies on TeamSpeak, you can choose to do one or two leads right before going to bed... but if you go questing, you go into your bubble, mark yourself AFK/do not disturb for everyone, and get immersed in the story. You only do that if you have a couple of hours ahead. Questing and antiquities are two different types of activities that, imho, do not mix well and therefore should not gate each other by design.

Like you, I hope it's an oversight and will be fixed.

Elsonso · May 2020

KMarble wrote: »

As @captioanima said, there are options. From what I understand the whole system is randomly generated - from the chance of getting a lead, to which lead you get, to where the dig site spawns.

I think it is random, but I think that the dig areas and dig locations are all pre-determined and they randomly pick between them.

Olauron · May 2020

Elsonso wrote: »

KMarble wrote: »

As @captioanima said, there are options. From what I understand the whole system is randomly generated - from the chance of getting a lead, to which lead you get, to where the dig site spawns.

I think it is random, but I think that the dig areas and dig locations are all pre-determined and they randomly pick between them.

That is true. You can scry a maximum of 5 items in a zone without excavating anything. Once I've got three antiquities in one digging area simultaneously.

HumbleThaumaturge · May 2020

All previous posts here were based on using a "copied character" from the EU server, including leveling the two new Antiquities skill trees ("Scrying" and "Excavation" to level 10). After patch V6.0.4, I leveled another copied character to Level 7, just to see how long it would take, now that I have learned a little about the workings of the Antiquities system.

Today I created a Template character and experienced Scrying and Excavation for more than a dozen gold-quality Leads. I had a few experiences with gold-quality leads with my copied characters, but I learned more today.
- Scyring gold-quality treasures is more challenging; but it's good. I always got it finished (got just one Dig Site location).
- Excavations of gold-quality treasures are much more challenging than at lower-levels. This is appropriate: I don't recommend any changes. The challenge is fun. I am still learning how to be more efficient in my Excavating: I always get the main Treasure, but don't always get all of the bonus Treasure. (Yet!) In contrast, when previously Excavating Purple, Blue, and Green quality treasures, I always uncovered all Bonus loot.
- Some Dig Sites were located in areas with hostiles. I would not change that: but I am a peaceful Antiquities-digger and would prefer not to fight. But that's life in Tamriel!
- Sometimes, the treasure chest is not located under a Green square (on the Dig Site grid). In my past experiences, chests were always under the Green squares. Not anymore, it seems. Was that a change? Or does this happen only with gold-quality digs? Anyway, be careful when Excavating squares surrounding the Green squares, so you don't risk damaging the chest!
- Sometimes, the treasure chest is located under a smoking Fissure. I had not had that happen before today. One can "safely detonate" a Fissure if one has 2/2 in the "Trowel" passive ability. Also, perhaps, pay attention to soil levels over Treasure Chest, so they are not at same level as Fissure when you "safely detonate" it. I will experiment more with this situation next time it happens.

As stated in a previous post [#228], the 30-day Expiration Date on leads is going to be a huge heartache for me. Leads drop very, very rarely. I have spent hours and hours on the PTS running content trying to get leads to drop: the drop-rate is very small. Some items (like those six Mythic Items) need up to 5 leads. I seriously doubt I can obtain all 5 leads within 30 days, before earlier leads start expiring. I wonder if anyone completed all leads for a Mythic Item on PTS. And if so, how long did it take?

In Conclusion: Good job on the Antiquites system. I would not change anything about Scrying and Excavation. However, I would beg you to eliminate or extend the Expiration Date on leads. Maybe 90 days?

Kelinmiriel · May 2020

HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »

I seriously doubt I can obtain all 5 leads within 30 days, before earlier leads start expiring.

I don't see any reason why you have to obtain all the leads within 30 days for an antiquity that is collected in parts. Once you've gotten a piece, you have it in your antiquities journal. That doesn't have an expiration date.

If it worked the way you interpret it, nobody would ever be able to collect the Ebon Dwarven Wolf mount. That doesn't have 5 parts. It has 17.

HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »

- Some Dig Sites were located in areas with hostiles. I would not change that: but I am a peaceful Antiquities-digger and would prefer not to fight. But that's life in Tamriel!

Hostile is fine, but the serious group area of Elinhir is rather extreme for something that's supposed to be a solo activity. I don't even object to quest-locked for the smaller quests, only to the one that requires the entire main quest line.

Unlike some here, I don't believe those areas were included intentionally. Locations are obviously random. Did they really check every single possibility? I don't think so. I see that sort of thing as being something the player community should bring to their attention if it gets missed.

So that's what I did. In my opinion, it adds nothing to the experience to have antiquities in those two locations, and many players will just find it very frustrating.

I believe the game would be better if those areas would be excluded, so I pointed it out in case they'd missed it. It's their choice whether they agree or not.

HumbleThaumaturge · May 2020

Kelinmiriel wrote: »

I don't see any reason why you have to obtain all the leads within 30 days for an antiquity that is collected in parts. Once you've gotten a piece, you have it in your antiquities journal. That doesn't have an expiration date.

If it worked the way you interpret it, nobody would ever be able to collect the Ebon Dwarven Wolf mount. That doesn't have 5 parts. It has 17.

From PTS patch notes v6.0.0: "Leads expire 30 days after you obtain them. (Of course, you can always obtain them again)."