Auction Houses: yes or no?

JKorr · May 2020

Keep everything as it is

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Kind of interesting trade guilds sending out messages to jump on a post like this every time it's brought up seems the actions of people afraid that it might change so have to get people to jump on it to distort the actual numbers to make people think that most don't want it when in reality it could be quite different and probably is so if they feel the need to do such. And perhaps that's what scares them that people wanting it could bring about this change. I had often wondered why it seems like they always are quick to jump on these posts.

Until someone actually posts a screenshot of one of these messages I'm not believing it. The people peddling that story always seem to be the same people in these threads all the time up voting each other to make it seem like their opinions are more popular.

Basically.

There have been people who phrase their questions so all the options are in favor of what they want the poll to say. So far lots of hearsay and anecdotal evidence, not much concrete examples. So there may be cheating going on here, but so far it seems to be on the side of "we wanna auction house" side. The "rawlkha rebels" who bought all the traders there claimed the cost was around 7 million gold. The one gm posted their actual bid as evidence, and proved the "rawlkha rebels" were not telling the truth. So, yeah, kinda not agreeing with the "huge conspiracy to prevent auction house because everyone is in on it" thing.

Rave the Histborn · May 2020

Keep everything as it is

Tandor wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Responses to his poll show.
32% (152 votes) for some sort of auction house.
64% (301 votes) are against any Auction House.

This and every other poll and discussion on this end the same way majority of votes are for NO Auction House, and that ZOS has started NO to Auction House request. Can we finally stop this silliness.

Yet only 51% want to keep the present system as it is. That is why it will always be a regular topic for discussion. Only when the present system is improved so that more people support it will the idea of a different system finally be laid to rest.

Also, it's highly likely that the narrow majority who support the present system as it is will be slanted towards PC players with add-ons, it's highly unlikely that there is a majority of console players in favour of keeping the present system as it is. If the present system was to be improved in such a way that more console players supported it then that would also be likely to lay the idea of a different system to rest.

However, all the time the polls show either side of 50% against keeping the present system unchanged, as they have done over the years, sometimes one way and sometimes the other way but always by a small margin, it will be a regular topic for discussion.

You need to math again as 60% of the population want to see the system stay as it currently is while only 32% want AH in some form. The topic will never rest though because so many people see the game and imagine, "Wouldn't this game be better if it was WoW?"

It doesn't matter if PC players are the majority in the poll as they also represent a significant portion of the base and it is Sony and Microsoft banning the add ons. Why should PC players have to suffer because they had the after thought to release the game on console and have to be subject to their TOS? I got a PC so I didn't have to deal with that nonsense, what's next trying to add an AH because you have to pay them to use their networks?

It has never shown this, grown adults just don't know how to read statistical data.

Tandor · May 2020

One Auction House to rule them all

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Responses to his poll show.
32% (152 votes) for some sort of auction house.
64% (301 votes) are against any Auction House.

This and every other poll and discussion on this end the same way majority of votes are for NO Auction House, and that ZOS has started NO to Auction House request. Can we finally stop this silliness.

Yet only 51% want to keep the present system as it is. That is why it will always be a regular topic for discussion. Only when the present system is improved so that more people support it will the idea of a different system finally be laid to rest.

Also, it's highly likely that the narrow majority who support the present system as it is will be slanted towards PC players with add-ons, it's highly unlikely that there is a majority of console players in favour of keeping the present system as it is. If the present system was to be improved in such a way that more console players supported it then that would also be likely to lay the idea of a different system to rest.

However, all the time the polls show either side of 50% against keeping the present system unchanged, as they have done over the years, sometimes one way and sometimes the other way but always by a small margin, it will be a regular topic for discussion.

You need to math again as 60% of the population want to see the system stay as it currently is while only 32% want AH in some form. The topic will never rest though because so many people see the game and imagine, "Wouldn't this game be better if it was WoW?"

It doesn't matter if PC players are the majority in the poll as they also represent a significant portion of the base and it is Sony and Microsoft banning the add ons. Why should PC players have to suffer because they had the after thought to release the game on console and have to be subject to their TOS? I got a PC so I didn't have to deal with that nonsense, what's next trying to add an AH because you have to pay them to use their networks?

It has never shown this, grown adults just don't know how to read statistical data.

Check again: "Keep everything as it is" - 51%. Other options such as adding more trader stores per city or banning TTC are not keeping everything as it is. They represent qualified support for the present system, they don't want a different system but they want improvements to the present one.

Rave the Histborn · May 2020

Keep everything as it is

Tandor wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Responses to his poll show.
32% (152 votes) for some sort of auction house.
64% (301 votes) are against any Auction House.

This and every other poll and discussion on this end the same way majority of votes are for NO Auction House, and that ZOS has started NO to Auction House request. Can we finally stop this silliness.

Yet only 51% want to keep the present system as it is. That is why it will always be a regular topic for discussion. Only when the present system is improved so that more people support it will the idea of a different system finally be laid to rest.

Also, it's highly likely that the narrow majority who support the present system as it is will be slanted towards PC players with add-ons, it's highly unlikely that there is a majority of console players in favour of keeping the present system as it is. If the present system was to be improved in such a way that more console players supported it then that would also be likely to lay the idea of a different system to rest.

However, all the time the polls show either side of 50% against keeping the present system unchanged, as they have done over the years, sometimes one way and sometimes the other way but always by a small margin, it will be a regular topic for discussion.

You need to math again as 60% of the population want to see the system stay as it currently is while only 32% want AH in some form. The topic will never rest though because so many people see the game and imagine, "Wouldn't this game be better if it was WoW?"

It doesn't matter if PC players are the majority in the poll as they also represent a significant portion of the base and it is Sony and Microsoft banning the add ons. Why should PC players have to suffer because they had the after thought to release the game on console and have to be subject to their TOS? I got a PC so I didn't have to deal with that nonsense, what's next trying to add an AH because you have to pay them to use their networks?

It has never shown this, grown adults just don't know how to read statistical data.

Check again: "Keep everything as it is" - 51%. Other options such as adding more trader stores per city or banning TTC are not keeping everything as it is. They represent qualified support for the present system, they don't want a different system but they want improvements to the present one.

It has never shown this, grown adults just don't know how to read statistical data.

Point proven.

Keep everything as it is 50%
Keep as is and ban TTC 2% (Banning an add on doesn't change the system it keeps it the same. You'd just turn the PC into PS4/Xbox)
Add more guild stores per city 8% (again same system, just more of it)

50%+2%+8% = 60%

Your words
"However, all the time the polls show either side of 50% against keeping the present system unchanged"

Keeping the present system unchanged means keeping guild traders as they currently work, you can add more of them as they are already added in with new zones, you would just increase the number.

Tandor · May 2020

One Auction House to rule them all

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Responses to his poll show.
32% (152 votes) for some sort of auction house.
64% (301 votes) are against any Auction House.

This and every other poll and discussion on this end the same way majority of votes are for NO Auction House, and that ZOS has started NO to Auction House request. Can we finally stop this silliness.

Yet only 51% want to keep the present system as it is. That is why it will always be a regular topic for discussion. Only when the present system is improved so that more people support it will the idea of a different system finally be laid to rest.

Also, it's highly likely that the narrow majority who support the present system as it is will be slanted towards PC players with add-ons, it's highly unlikely that there is a majority of console players in favour of keeping the present system as it is. If the present system was to be improved in such a way that more console players supported it then that would also be likely to lay the idea of a different system to rest.

However, all the time the polls show either side of 50% against keeping the present system unchanged, as they have done over the years, sometimes one way and sometimes the other way but always by a small margin, it will be a regular topic for discussion.

You need to math again as 60% of the population want to see the system stay as it currently is while only 32% want AH in some form. The topic will never rest though because so many people see the game and imagine, "Wouldn't this game be better if it was WoW?"

It doesn't matter if PC players are the majority in the poll as they also represent a significant portion of the base and it is Sony and Microsoft banning the add ons. Why should PC players have to suffer because they had the after thought to release the game on console and have to be subject to their TOS? I got a PC so I didn't have to deal with that nonsense, what's next trying to add an AH because you have to pay them to use their networks?

It has never shown this, grown adults just don't know how to read statistical data.

Check again: "Keep everything as it is" - 51%. Other options such as adding more trader stores per city or banning TTC are not keeping everything as it is. They represent qualified support for the present system, they don't want a different system but they want improvements to the present one.

It has never shown this, grown adults just don't know how to read statistical data.

Point proven.

Keep everything as it is 50%
Keep as is and ban TTC 2% (Banning an add on doesn't change the system it keeps it the same. You'd just turn the PC into PS4/Xbox)
Add more guild stores per city 8% (again same system, just more of it)

50%+2%+8% = 60%

Your words
"However, all the time the polls show either side of 50% against keeping the present system unchanged"

Keeping the present system unchanged means keeping guild traders as they currently work, you can add more of them as they are already added in with new zones, you would just increase the number.

Like I said, there's only one option that is strictly "keep everything as it is" and that keeps flickering between 50% and 51%. Both your other options do not involve keeping everything as it is, one involves adding more trader stores and the other involves banning a critical add-on. If you want to argue that 60% support retaining the guild trader system then I'd be in total agreement with you, however within that figure 10% want changes to the guild trader system and the other 50% support keeping it as it is. I suspect that very many more want changes from a buyer's perspective, such as central listing, but that wasn't given as an option.

ZaroktheImmortal · May 2020

One Auction House to rule them all

Iluvrien wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Kind of interesting trade guilds sending out messages to jump on a post like this every time it's brought up seems the actions of people afraid that it might change so have to get people to jump on it to distort the actual numbers to make people think that most don't want it when in reality it could be quite different and probably is so if they feel the need to do such. And perhaps that's what scares them that people wanting it could bring about this change. I had often wondered why it seems like they always are quick to jump on these posts.

Has the trade guild message been corroborated by anyone in the same guild who, for example, isn’t expressly against trading guilds?

Has anyone seen such a message in any other guilds?

I haven’t seen a similar message in any trading guild I am part of. I haven’t heard of anything similar from people I know who are in other guilds.

But then I suppose that believing a conspiracy theory about guilds manipulating poll results is easier to entertain than the idea that people might come to this thread individually and vote for what they actually believe.

If you did and were part of the ones trying to shut it down would you admit it? Why it seems to have credibility is how fast trade guild members jump on these posts and often get quite aggressive and rude about the topic even being brought up. And even if they're not distorting the numbers it still holds to the point that not everyone in the game checks the forums. Also then I've actually looked back to ones from a couple of years or ago and most people voted in favor of an auction house. Point being that so many use poll numbers on the forum to prove that theirs is the right when in reality not everyone will check the forums. So as much as you'd like to claim it as evidence that the majority want it as is it really doesn't say anything so regardless of whether or not the numbers are distorted they still won't show what the majority of the community want. Also as I've said to those saying it won't change there's been a lot of things that have changed that for years people kept saying these were a 'dead horse' and yet we still got those. So never say never.

Akrasjel · May 2020

Add more guild stores per city

They made this system having their own reasons, and some kind of poll won't change their mind after those few years. It would require effort, they also don't know what to do with the CPs still. If they decided that after analyzing the data they would remake it toward AH i would simply accept it.

majulook · May 2020

Keep everything as it is

Tandor wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Responses to his poll show.
32% (152 votes) for some sort of auction house.
64% (301 votes) are against any Auction House.

This and every other poll and discussion on this end the same way majority of votes are for NO Auction House, and that ZOS has started NO to Auction House request. Can we finally stop this silliness.

Yet only 51% want to keep the present system as it is. That is why it will always be a regular topic for discussion. Only when the present system is improved so that more people support it will the idea of a different system finally be laid to rest.

Also, it's highly likely that the narrow majority who support the present system as it is will be slanted towards PC players with add-ons, it's highly unlikely that there is a majority of console players in favour of keeping the present system as it is. If the present system was to be improved in such a way that more console players supported it then that would also be likely to lay the idea of a different system to rest.

However, all the time the polls show either side of 50% against keeping the present system unchanged, as they have done over the years, sometimes one way and sometimes the other way but always by a small margin, it will be a regular topic for discussion.

And only 21% want one Auction House. 11% want more than one Auction House, which is similar to what we have now with the Guild system.

Of those wanting no Auction House 51% want it to stay as is, 8% want more guilds, 4% want to keep it as is but remove TTC.

indigorune · May 2020

Add more guild stores per city

majulook wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Responses to his poll show.
32% (152 votes) for some sort of auction house.
64% (301 votes) are against any Auction House.

This and every other poll and discussion on this end the same way majority of votes are for NO Auction House, and that ZOS has started NO to Auction House request. Can we finally stop this silliness.

Yet only 51% want to keep the present system as it is. That is why it will always be a regular topic for discussion. Only when the present system is improved so that more people support it will the idea of a different system finally be laid to rest.

Also, it's highly likely that the narrow majority who support the present system as it is will be slanted towards PC players with add-ons, it's highly unlikely that there is a majority of console players in favour of keeping the present system as it is. If the present system was to be improved in such a way that more console players supported it then that would also be likely to lay the idea of a different system to rest.

However, all the time the polls show either side of 50% against keeping the present system unchanged, as they have done over the years, sometimes one way and sometimes the other way but always by a small margin, it will be a regular topic for discussion.

And only 21% want one Auction House. 11% want more than one Auction House, which is similar to what we have now with the Guild system.

Of those wanting no Auction House 51% want it to stay as is, 8% want more guilds, 4% want to keep it as is but remove TTC.

And to add to this, the question (IN THE TITLE) is if we do or do not want auction houses. So that is what we should be looking at here. I do not appreciate my choice of "add MORE traders" being pooled in with those who voted YES to auction houses. That makes absolutely no sense. If I didn't think this topic was completely ridiculous in the first place, I would suggest a poll that was less flawed:

AUCTION HOUSE?
1_YES
2_NO

Tandor · May 2020

One Auction House to rule them all

n0tthesun wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Responses to his poll show.
32% (152 votes) for some sort of auction house.
64% (301 votes) are against any Auction House.

This and every other poll and discussion on this end the same way majority of votes are for NO Auction House, and that ZOS has started NO to Auction House request. Can we finally stop this silliness.

Yet only 51% want to keep the present system as it is. That is why it will always be a regular topic for discussion. Only when the present system is improved so that more people support it will the idea of a different system finally be laid to rest.

Also, it's highly likely that the narrow majority who support the present system as it is will be slanted towards PC players with add-ons, it's highly unlikely that there is a majority of console players in favour of keeping the present system as it is. If the present system was to be improved in such a way that more console players supported it then that would also be likely to lay the idea of a different system to rest.

However, all the time the polls show either side of 50% against keeping the present system unchanged, as they have done over the years, sometimes one way and sometimes the other way but always by a small margin, it will be a regular topic for discussion.

And only 21% want one Auction House. 11% want more than one Auction House, which is similar to what we have now with the Guild system.

Of those wanting no Auction House 51% want it to stay as is, 8% want more guilds, 4% want to keep it as is but remove TTC.

And to add to this, the question (IN THE TITLE) is if we do or do not want auction houses. So that is what we should be looking at here. I do not appreciate my choice of "add MORE traders" being pooled in with those who voted YES to auction houses. That makes absolutely no sense. If I didn't think this topic was completely ridiculous in the first place, I would suggest a poll that was less flawed:

AUCTION HOUSE?
1_YES
2_NO

Who has pooled those in to the YES votes for auction houses? Certainly not me. I just don't like votes for the options to change the existing system to be pooled in with the YES votes to keep everything as it is. I certainly don't dispute the minority vote for an auction house, but then I don't see overwhelming support for the existing system as is either. That's the problem with the whole trading system discussions, there's never a significant majority for either changing the system or keeping it as it is, and that's why it's always being raised. Keeping the existing system but adding improvements such as central listing for buyers and a trading add-on built into the default system so it applied to console as well as to PC are what would very likely attract the biggest vote in an unbiased poll.

kargen27 · May 2020

Other .. (explain)

Tandor wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Responses to his poll show.
32% (152 votes) for some sort of auction house.
64% (301 votes) are against any Auction House.

This and every other poll and discussion on this end the same way majority of votes are for NO Auction House, and that ZOS has started NO to Auction House request. Can we finally stop this silliness.

Yet only 51% want to keep the present system as it is. That is why it will always be a regular topic for discussion. Only when the present system is improved so that more people support it will the idea of a different system finally be laid to rest.

Also, it's highly likely that the narrow majority who support the present system as it is will be slanted towards PC players with add-ons, it's highly unlikely that there is a majority of console players in favour of keeping the present system as it is. If the present system was to be improved in such a way that more console players supported it then that would also be likely to lay the idea of a different system to rest.

However, all the time the polls show either side of 50% against keeping the present system unchanged, as they have done over the years, sometimes one way and sometimes the other way but always by a small margin, it will be a regular topic for discussion.

"Yet only 51% want to keep the present system as it is."

But they want to keep the system. I would like to change the system to make it easier to locate an item but I don't want prices listed. If you want a bargain you would still have to visit all the traders. If you don't care about price you can simply go to the nearest convenient trader and grab the item. I would also support adding a 2nd trader beside all the single traders out and about in the game. Both those fall under the criteria of making a change. Neither in any way suggests I would ever want an auction house.

Start a poll that asks "do you want a central auction house." Have the answers be "yes" and "no." Don't detract by offering changes to the current system. Just yes or no. Then if it goes the way I think it will we can begin discussing how to improve on the current system. Wanting to improve the current system in no way endorses the idea of scrapping the current system for another.

Rave the Histborn · May 2020

Keep everything as it is

Tandor wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Responses to his poll show.
32% (152 votes) for some sort of auction house.
64% (301 votes) are against any Auction House.

This and every other poll and discussion on this end the same way majority of votes are for NO Auction House, and that ZOS has started NO to Auction House request. Can we finally stop this silliness.

Yet only 51% want to keep the present system as it is. That is why it will always be a regular topic for discussion. Only when the present system is improved so that more people support it will the idea of a different system finally be laid to rest.

Also, it's highly likely that the narrow majority who support the present system as it is will be slanted towards PC players with add-ons, it's highly unlikely that there is a majority of console players in favour of keeping the present system as it is. If the present system was to be improved in such a way that more console players supported it then that would also be likely to lay the idea of a different system to rest.

However, all the time the polls show either side of 50% against keeping the present system unchanged, as they have done over the years, sometimes one way and sometimes the other way but always by a small margin, it will be a regular topic for discussion.

You need to math again as 60% of the population want to see the system stay as it currently is while only 32% want AH in some form. The topic will never rest though because so many people see the game and imagine, "Wouldn't this game be better if it was WoW?"

It doesn't matter if PC players are the majority in the poll as they also represent a significant portion of the base and it is Sony and Microsoft banning the add ons. Why should PC players have to suffer because they had the after thought to release the game on console and have to be subject to their TOS? I got a PC so I didn't have to deal with that nonsense, what's next trying to add an AH because you have to pay them to use their networks?

It has never shown this, grown adults just don't know how to read statistical data.

Check again: "Keep everything as it is" - 51%. Other options such as adding more trader stores per city or banning TTC are not keeping everything as it is. They represent qualified support for the present system, they don't want a different system but they want improvements to the present one.

It has never shown this, grown adults just don't know how to read statistical data.

Point proven.

Keep everything as it is 50%
Keep as is and ban TTC 2% (Banning an add on doesn't change the system it keeps it the same. You'd just turn the PC into PS4/Xbox)
Add more guild stores per city 8% (again same system, just more of it)

50%+2%+8% = 60%

Your words
"However, all the time the polls show either side of 50% against keeping the present system unchanged"

Keeping the present system unchanged means keeping guild traders as they currently work, you can add more of them as they are already added in with new zones, you would just increase the number.

Like I said, there's only one option that is strictly "keep everything as it is" and that keeps flickering between 50% and 51%. Both your other options do not involve keeping everything as it is, one involves adding more trader stores and the other involves banning a critical add-on. If you want to argue that 60% support retaining the guild trader system then I'd be in total agreement with you, however within that figure 10% want changes to the guild trader system and the other 50% support keeping it as it is. I suspect that very many more want changes from a buyer's perspective, such as central listing, but that wasn't given as an option.

Like I said, you don't know how read data and even if that was the case with those options it would still be a 51% majority vs a 21% minority if your really just want to argue wording

I'll repeat though

Banning TTC doesn't change the current system in any way shape or form and TTC hasn't existed for the entire life of ESO. This gotcha "well what if TTC didn't exist" is nonsense because the game and markets operated fine and if anything when you added that "centralization" it made

Tandor wrote: »

n0tthesun wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Responses to his poll show.
32% (152 votes) for some sort of auction house.
64% (301 votes) are against any Auction House.

This and every other poll and discussion on this end the same way majority of votes are for NO Auction House, and that ZOS has started NO to Auction House request. Can we finally stop this silliness.

Yet only 51% want to keep the present system as it is. That is why it will always be a regular topic for discussion. Only when the present system is improved so that more people support it will the idea of a different system finally be laid to rest.

Also, it's highly likely that the narrow majority who support the present system as it is will be slanted towards PC players with add-ons, it's highly unlikely that there is a majority of console players in favour of keeping the present system as it is. If the present system was to be improved in such a way that more console players supported it then that would also be likely to lay the idea of a different system to rest.

However, all the time the polls show either side of 50% against keeping the present system unchanged, as they have done over the years, sometimes one way and sometimes the other way but always by a small margin, it will be a regular topic for discussion.

And only 21% want one Auction House. 11% want more than one Auction House, which is similar to what we have now with the Guild system.

Of those wanting no Auction House 51% want it to stay as is, 8% want more guilds, 4% want to keep it as is but remove TTC.

And to add to this, the question (IN THE TITLE) is if we do or do not want auction houses. So that is what we should be looking at here. I do not appreciate my choice of "add MORE traders" being pooled in with those who voted YES to auction houses. That makes absolutely no sense. If I didn't think this topic was completely ridiculous in the first place, I would suggest a poll that was less flawed:

AUCTION HOUSE?
1_YES
2_NO

Who has pooled those in to the YES votes for auction houses? Certainly not me. I just don't like votes for the options to change the existing system to be pooled in with the YES votes to keep everything as it is. I certainly don't dispute the minority vote for an auction house, but then I don't see overwhelming support for the existing system as is either. That's the problem with the whole trading system discussions, there's never a significant majority for either changing the system or keeping it as it is, and that's why it's always being raised. Keeping the existing system but adding improvements such as central listing for buyers and a trading add-on built into the default system so it applied to console as well as to PC are what would very likely attract the biggest vote in an unbiased poll.

There's never a "significant" majority because the vocal minority can never accept the results of the polls. You also don't need a significant majority, you need a majority, which there clearly and always is.

You don't like the votes being properly categorized because they are against what you'd like to see happen but that doesn't change the fact that those votes belong in the yes category. Taking away TTC doesnt change the system and adding in more traders doesn't either.

If you went to the grocery store and they removed the information about each isle would you suddenly stop grocery shopping? Same with shutting down TTC

FlopsyPrince · May 2020

One Auction House to rule them all

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Anotherone of these threads( see what i did there?<<<)

In every single game with a centralized system, penny wars cause almost all loot to become worthless and no one bothers because they dont want to stand at the AH all day and keep readjusting their prices down to "not.worth.my.time", so you will find an overwhelming NO! here no matter how many times you ask.

That is bogus. Most loot today is worthless. Sell a green leveling sword on the guild trader? What are you smoking?

The economy in World of Warcraft worked quite fine with a centralized AH when I was playing that, so your argument falls flat on that end.

Keeping a system where it is almost impossible to find things and favors a few who want to play the "run around and flip things" while leaving most high and dry is inane.

Have you ever tried finding a specific recipe, motif or even gear on the PS4? It can be a great waste of time and frequently is an exercise in futility.

This system is quite broke, but ZoS and some here are still sold out for it!

FlopsyPrince · May 2020

One Auction House to rule them all

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

They cry "Immersion" and "Harder to corner/and game the market" which are true, in the fact that it would take minutes, as opposed to an hour to do it as it is now.

It is far easier to corner the market now since only a few dedicate the time (or addons no on console) to do so.

FlopsyPrince · May 2020

One Auction House to rule them all

GarnetFire17 wrote: »

And all the people that put in years of their life to build up their trade guild and love and built great relationships with people through the process? Are you going to say that is not value? I would say the Guild Trader system works. Billions of gold is traded each week. It's been five years and running. The only ones who complain are the ones too lazy to have to put some effort into shopping around for things they are too lazy to farm for themselves. I count it as a GOOD thing that those people don't get their way.

And games that do that end up losing players and go on the decline.

Even the big one, WoW, has seen that. I no longer play it because they ignored many Quality of Life things and made the game another job.

"Because its always been that way" is a good way to get your game to go on the decline.

Wanting to keep a guild running that has been built over time is great, but these are digital services folks. Things change. Even active guilds decline as core members go off to do other things. List happens. Don't reject simplifying the system so people can find what they want/need easier because you had some best buds in the game in the past. That is foolish.

So many keep listing TTC as a reason the current system is great, forgetting that console players don't have that. A couple of console players like the current system, but not enough to claim it is perfect.

FlopsyPrince · May 2020

One Auction House to rule them all

Keep in mind that the responses to polls like this are not really statistically relevant.

I happen to have had some time for this and desire to argue the same annoying part of the game. I could easily have skipped it and made it seem even more in favor of the current system reigning supreme.

The current system continues to make things hard for many of us, whatever the results of a poll like this. That is one of the frustrating things that could get us to quit the game, or at least add to the push to do so.

I am in 9 trading guilds across 2 servers (NA and EU). I pay 10K a week for most, 20K for one. I sell what I can, but I make enough crafting and questing that this cost is doable. I still despise the system, even though several of these guilds are quite good.

One would fall apart tomorrow if the guildmaster lost his motivation for the game, which is likely true for most guilds. He seems to enjoy the tedium involved, but I can't see this is the best base for a game. Everyone in these guilds loves them until they don't.

Take a practical example: How much is a specific motif worth when selling? I want a fair price, perhaps discounted a bit to get it to flip quicker. I have no idea what that price is however. I could spend hours going between traders to check, but I would rather play the game. Even grinding skyshards is more interesting than that!

What about buying a specific motif? What is a fair price that I should look for? No idea at all. This is especially true for the PS4 since no TTC exists here.

The limit of 30 slots is also really annoying and I have this many guilds. I am far from full much of the time, but sometimes I get very full and it takes forever to flush out.

Give me a system that works please.

PizzaCat82 · May 2020

A few auction houses, like one in each capital

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

They cry "Immersion" and "Harder to corner/and game the market" which are true, in the fact that it would take minutes, as opposed to an hour to do it as it is now.

It is far easier to corner the market now since only a few dedicate the time (or addons no on console) to do so.

I think it'd be much harder to corner the market with more people involved in day to day trading. Sure, it'd be easy to buy up all mats for like an hour.

Then people would log on and added more of said mat undercutting the price you just listed at. Plus you'd have to spread those out, as no one wants to buy 200 temps for 2M they'll just ask guildmates or in zone chat.

So the Arguments against it are:
1. It'd ruin trading guilds who have spent tons of hard work on keeping their spots. And we want trading to be hard because its a competition to these people and they deserve to be on top.

2. It'd be easy to corner the market. Even with all the extra people selling. Even with listing fees and limited slots. I submit on things that matter, it wont be. People will always be listing mats. They will always be listing gear. You might get someone flipping motifs or style pages or whatever, but you get that now. They just don't want it to be common. They are allowed to flip. Everyone else is not.

3. The devs already said no and that means it will never happen ever and there's no need to create threads like these because obviously never means never and no amount of complaining or support will ever change that, plus its like written into the company contract for new employees so when they get hired they must "never change the Trading system"

I'm going to ignore the consipiracy theories and people trying to extrapolate from a small forum poll that is probably biased. It's not an argument worth having because anyone can skew the numbers to mean whatever they want.

What they can't skew is that there's a non-zero percentage of the population who think the current system does not work for the silent majority of people. The ones that play a bit, don't know how to use the guild traders, and just leave the game because its not new player friendly.

Those people don't matter, apparently. The strong survive, and the weak move on to other games.

ZaroktheImmortal · May 2020

One Auction House to rule them all

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

They cry "Immersion" and "Harder to corner/and game the market" which are true, in the fact that it would take minutes, as opposed to an hour to do it as it is now.

It is far easier to corner the market now since only a few dedicate the time (or addons no on console) to do so.

I think it'd be much harder to corner the market with more people involved in day to day trading. Sure, it'd be easy to buy up all mats for like an hour.

Then people would log on and added more of said mat undercutting the price you just listed at. Plus you'd have to spread those out, as no one wants to buy 200 temps for 2M they'll just ask guildmates or in zone chat.

So the Arguments against it are:
1. It'd ruin trading guilds who have spent tons of hard work on keeping their spots. And we want trading to be hard because its a competition to these people and they deserve to be on top.

2. It'd be easy to corner the market. Even with all the extra people selling. Even with listing fees and limited slots. I submit on things that matter, it wont be. People will always be listing mats. They will always be listing gear. You might get someone flipping motifs or style pages or whatever, but you get that now. They just don't want it to be common. They are allowed to flip. Everyone else is not.

3. The devs already said no and that means it will never happen ever and there's no need to create threads like these because obviously never means never and no amount of complaining or support will ever change that, plus its like written into the company contract for new employees so when they get hired they must "never change the Trading system"

I'm going to ignore the consipiracy theories and people trying to extrapolate from a small forum poll that is probably biased. It's not an argument worth having because anyone can skew the numbers to mean whatever they want.

What they can't skew is that there's a non-zero percentage of the population who think the current system does not work for the silent majority of people. The ones that play a bit, don't know how to use the guild traders, and just leave the game because its not new player friendly.

Those people don't matter, apparently. The strong survive, and the weak move on to other games.

1. These guilds only last as long as the person running it keeps up with it. It also would help smaller guilds to grow if we had one as people are more likely to join ones that have a trader.

2. There is no evidence that it'd be any easier to corner the market except your claims that it would. Hmm talking of conspiracy theories. It's the same old 'people will corner the market' 'it will ruin the economy' but all there is to that is wild claims that it will.

3. Didn't they say no dragons at one point as well? Things change doesn't mean it will stay the same. This game has been changing a lot over the years.

Also as I pointed out earlier poll numbers hardly represent the entire community. Do you think everyone in game is checking the forums?

PizzaCat82 · May 2020

A few auction houses, like one in each capital

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

They cry "Immersion" and "Harder to corner/and game the market" which are true, in the fact that it would take minutes, as opposed to an hour to do it as it is now.

It is far easier to corner the market now since only a few dedicate the time (or addons no on console) to do so.

I think it'd be much harder to corner the market with more people involved in day to day trading. Sure, it'd be easy to buy up all mats for like an hour.

Then people would log on and added more of said mat undercutting the price you just listed at. Plus you'd have to spread those out, as no one wants to buy 200 temps for 2M they'll just ask guildmates or in zone chat.

So the Arguments against it are:
1. It'd ruin trading guilds who have spent tons of hard work on keeping their spots. And we want trading to be hard because its a competition to these people and they deserve to be on top.

2. It'd be easy to corner the market. Even with all the extra people selling. Even with listing fees and limited slots. I submit on things that matter, it wont be. People will always be listing mats. They will always be listing gear. You might get someone flipping motifs or style pages or whatever, but you get that now. They just don't want it to be common. They are allowed to flip. Everyone else is not.

3. The devs already said no and that means it will never happen ever and there's no need to create threads like these because obviously never means never and no amount of complaining or support will ever change that, plus its like written into the company contract for new employees so when they get hired they must "never change the Trading system"

I'm going to ignore the consipiracy theories and people trying to extrapolate from a small forum poll that is probably biased. It's not an argument worth having because anyone can skew the numbers to mean whatever they want.

What they can't skew is that there's a non-zero percentage of the population who think the current system does not work for the silent majority of people. The ones that play a bit, don't know how to use the guild traders, and just leave the game because its not new player friendly.

Those people don't matter, apparently. The strong survive, and the weak move on to other games.

1. These guilds only last as long as the person running it keeps up with it. It also would help smaller guilds to grow if we had one as people are more likely to join ones that have a trader.

2. There is no evidence that it'd be any easier to corner the market except your claims that it would. Hmm talking of conspiracy theories. It's the same old 'people will corner the market' 'it will ruin the economy' but all there is to that is wild claims that it will.

3. Didn't they say no dragons at one point as well? Things change doesn't mean it will stay the same. This game has been changing a lot over the years.

Also as I pointed out earlier poll numbers hardly represent the entire community. Do you think everyone in game is checking the forums?

I believe we're making the same points here.

ZaroktheImmortal · May 2020

One Auction House to rule them all

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

They cry "Immersion" and "Harder to corner/and game the market" which are true, in the fact that it would take minutes, as opposed to an hour to do it as it is now.

It is far easier to corner the market now since only a few dedicate the time (or addons no on console) to do so.

I think it'd be much harder to corner the market with more people involved in day to day trading. Sure, it'd be easy to buy up all mats for like an hour.

Then people would log on and added more of said mat undercutting the price you just listed at. Plus you'd have to spread those out, as no one wants to buy 200 temps for 2M they'll just ask guildmates or in zone chat.

So the Arguments against it are:
1. It'd ruin trading guilds who have spent tons of hard work on keeping their spots. And we want trading to be hard because its a competition to these people and they deserve to be on top.

2. It'd be easy to corner the market. Even with all the extra people selling. Even with listing fees and limited slots. I submit on things that matter, it wont be. People will always be listing mats. They will always be listing gear. You might get someone flipping motifs or style pages or whatever, but you get that now. They just don't want it to be common. They are allowed to flip. Everyone else is not.

3. The devs already said no and that means it will never happen ever and there's no need to create threads like these because obviously never means never and no amount of complaining or support will ever change that, plus its like written into the company contract for new employees so when they get hired they must "never change the Trading system"

I'm going to ignore the consipiracy theories and people trying to extrapolate from a small forum poll that is probably biased. It's not an argument worth having because anyone can skew the numbers to mean whatever they want.

What they can't skew is that there's a non-zero percentage of the population who think the current system does not work for the silent majority of people. The ones that play a bit, don't know how to use the guild traders, and just leave the game because its not new player friendly.

Those people don't matter, apparently. The strong survive, and the weak move on to other games.

1. These guilds only last as long as the person running it keeps up with it. It also would help smaller guilds to grow if we had one as people are more likely to join ones that have a trader.

2. There is no evidence that it'd be any easier to corner the market except your claims that it would. Hmm talking of conspiracy theories. It's the same old 'people will corner the market' 'it will ruin the economy' but all there is to that is wild claims that it will.

3. Didn't they say no dragons at one point as well? Things change doesn't mean it will stay the same. This game has been changing a lot over the years.

Also as I pointed out earlier poll numbers hardly represent the entire community. Do you think everyone in game is checking the forums?

I believe we're making the same points here.

We are? Sorry my brain is still waking up.

Rave the Histborn · May 2020

Keep everything as it is

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Anotherone of these threads( see what i did there?<<<)

In every single game with a centralized system, penny wars cause almost all loot to become worthless and no one bothers because they dont want to stand at the AH all day and keep readjusting their prices down to "not.worth.my.time", so you will find an overwhelming NO! here no matter how many times you ask.

That is bogus. Most loot today is worthless. Sell a green leveling sword on the guild trader? What are you smoking?

The economy in World of Warcraft worked quite fine with a centralized AH when I was playing that, so your argument falls flat on that end.

Keeping a system where it is almost impossible to find things and favors a few who want to play the "run around and flip things" while leaving most high and dry is inane.

Have you ever tried finding a specific recipe, motif or even gear on the PS4? It can be a great waste of time and frequently is an exercise in futility.

This system is quite broke, but ZoS and some here are still sold out for it!

The economy worked "fine" but that's the problem, fine is fine, but this system works better. Opening up access to the AH isn't the same thing as accessibility. Just because everyone suddenly gets access to the market doesn't mean all of a sudden they're going to sell good. They now have to compete with everyone else and if you can't survive all the inevitable and significant under cutting or cornering the market on mats

idk · May 2020

Keep everything as it is

n0tthesun wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Responses to his poll show.
32% (152 votes) for some sort of auction house.
64% (301 votes) are against any Auction House.

This and every other poll and discussion on this end the same way majority of votes are for NO Auction House, and that ZOS has started NO to Auction House request. Can we finally stop this silliness.

Yet only 51% want to keep the present system as it is. That is why it will always be a regular topic for discussion. Only when the present system is improved so that more people support it will the idea of a different system finally be laid to rest.

Also, it's highly likely that the narrow majority who support the present system as it is will be slanted towards PC players with add-ons, it's highly unlikely that there is a majority of console players in favour of keeping the present system as it is. If the present system was to be improved in such a way that more console players supported it then that would also be likely to lay the idea of a different system to rest.

However, all the time the polls show either side of 50% against keeping the present system unchanged, as they have done over the years, sometimes one way and sometimes the other way but always by a small margin, it will be a regular topic for discussion.

And only 21% want one Auction House. 11% want more than one Auction House, which is similar to what we have now with the Guild system.

Of those wanting no Auction House 51% want it to stay as is, 8% want more guilds, 4% want to keep it as is but remove TTC.

And to add to this, the question (IN THE TITLE) is if we do or do not want auction houses. So that is what we should be looking at here. I do not appreciate my choice of "add MORE traders" being pooled in with those who voted YES to auction houses. That makes absolutely no sense. If I didn't think this topic was completely ridiculous in the first place, I would suggest a poll that was less flawed:

AUCTION HOUSE?
1_YES
2_NO

You are absolutely correct. I would hope someone is not making such a blatant error.

The fact is that as of now, with 477 votes, only 1/3 have an interest in some sort of auction house. A supermajority has loudly spoken that they want to keep the guild trader system.

While I am expecting OP was thinking people would support their opinion but instead we spoke loudly that we are tired of the stale systems of old games and prefer the more social guild design and one that is not as easy for bots to manipulate.

Rave the Histborn · May 2020

Keep everything as it is

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

They cry "Immersion" and "Harder to corner/and game the market" which are true, in the fact that it would take minutes, as opposed to an hour to do it as it is now.

It is far easier to corner the market now since only a few dedicate the time (or addons no on console) to do so.

I think it'd be much harder to corner the market with more people involved in day to day trading. Sure, it'd be easy to buy up all mats for like an hour.

Then people would log on and added more of said mat undercutting the price you just listed at. Plus you'd have to spread those out, as no one wants to buy 200 temps for 2M they'll just ask guildmates or in zone chat.

So the Arguments against it are:
1. It'd ruin trading guilds who have spent tons of hard work on keeping their spots. And we want trading to be hard because its a competition to these people and they deserve to be on top.

2. It'd be easy to corner the market. Even with all the extra people selling. Even with listing fees and limited slots. I submit on things that matter, it wont be. People will always be listing mats. They will always be listing gear. You might get someone flipping motifs or style pages or whatever, but you get that now. They just don't want it to be common. They are allowed to flip. Everyone else is not.

3. The devs already said no and that means it will never happen ever and there's no need to create threads like these because obviously never means never and no amount of complaining or support will ever change that, plus its like written into the company contract for new employees so when they get hired they must "never change the Trading system"

I'm going to ignore the consipiracy theories and people trying to extrapolate from a small forum poll that is probably biased. It's not an argument worth having because anyone can skew the numbers to mean whatever they want.

What they can't skew is that there's a non-zero percentage of the population who think the current system does not work for the silent majority of people. The ones that play a bit, don't know how to use the guild traders, and just leave the game because its not new player friendly.

Those people don't matter, apparently. The strong survive, and the weak move on to other games.

1. These guilds only last as long as the person running it keeps up with it. It also would help smaller guilds to grow if we had one as people are more likely to join ones that have a trader.

2. There is no evidence that it'd be any easier to corner the market except your claims that it would. Hmm talking of conspiracy theories. It's the same old 'people will corner the market' 'it will ruin the economy' but all there is to that is wild claims that it will.

3. Didn't they say no dragons at one point as well? Things change doesn't mean it will stay the same. This game has been changing a lot over the years.

Also as I pointed out earlier poll numbers hardly represent the entire community. Do you think everyone in game is checking the forums?

1) A global AH hinders smaller guilds as they are now in more direct competition with larger guilders. Guild traders help alleviate that.

2) There's tons of evidence based on previous MMOs with those systems and basic logic also dictates it would be easier.

If you need further evidence we can look at the toilet paper hoarding during recent events. Larger more centralized stores were out of stock because people were able to go to a location an buy the entire stock of something for an area and the only way to regulate sales was to force limits on purchasing. Unless you do the same with an AH you're asking for a system that rewards the richer.

3) They did say no dragons but the TES/ESO crew have seem to have run out of creative ideas. Luckily for us the guild aystem isn't broken so it doesn't need "fixing"

ZaroktheImmortal · May 2020

One Auction House to rule them all

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

They cry "Immersion" and "Harder to corner/and game the market" which are true, in the fact that it would take minutes, as opposed to an hour to do it as it is now.

It is far easier to corner the market now since only a few dedicate the time (or addons no on console) to do so.

I think it'd be much harder to corner the market with more people involved in day to day trading. Sure, it'd be easy to buy up all mats for like an hour.

Then people would log on and added more of said mat undercutting the price you just listed at. Plus you'd have to spread those out, as no one wants to buy 200 temps for 2M they'll just ask guildmates or in zone chat.

So the Arguments against it are:
1. It'd ruin trading guilds who have spent tons of hard work on keeping their spots. And we want trading to be hard because its a competition to these people and they deserve to be on top.

2. It'd be easy to corner the market. Even with all the extra people selling. Even with listing fees and limited slots. I submit on things that matter, it wont be. People will always be listing mats. They will always be listing gear. You might get someone flipping motifs or style pages or whatever, but you get that now. They just don't want it to be common. They are allowed to flip. Everyone else is not.

3. The devs already said no and that means it will never happen ever and there's no need to create threads like these because obviously never means never and no amount of complaining or support will ever change that, plus its like written into the company contract for new employees so when they get hired they must "never change the Trading system"

I'm going to ignore the consipiracy theories and people trying to extrapolate from a small forum poll that is probably biased. It's not an argument worth having because anyone can skew the numbers to mean whatever they want.

What they can't skew is that there's a non-zero percentage of the population who think the current system does not work for the silent majority of people. The ones that play a bit, don't know how to use the guild traders, and just leave the game because its not new player friendly.

Those people don't matter, apparently. The strong survive, and the weak move on to other games.

1. These guilds only last as long as the person running it keeps up with it. It also would help smaller guilds to grow if we had one as people are more likely to join ones that have a trader.

2. There is no evidence that it'd be any easier to corner the market except your claims that it would. Hmm talking of conspiracy theories. It's the same old 'people will corner the market' 'it will ruin the economy' but all there is to that is wild claims that it will.

3. Didn't they say no dragons at one point as well? Things change doesn't mean it will stay the same. This game has been changing a lot over the years.

Also as I pointed out earlier poll numbers hardly represent the entire community. Do you think everyone in game is checking the forums?

1) A global AH hinders smaller guilds as they are now in more direct competition with larger guilders. Guild traders help alleviate that.

2) There's tons of evidence based on previous MMOs with those systems and basic logic also dictates it would be easier.

If you need further evidence we can look at the toilet paper hoarding during recent events. Larger more centralized stores were out of stock because people were able to go to a location an buy the entire stock of something for an area and the only way to regulate sales was to force limits on purchasing. Unless you do the same with an AH you're asking for a system that rewards the richer.

3) They did say no dragons but the TES/ESO crew have seem to have run out of creative ideas. Luckily for us the guild aystem isn't broken so it doesn't need "fixing"

Not really. Smaller guilds are less likely to get guild traders with less support to pay for said traders. A global AH would make people join guilds on which they want to join rather than this one has a trader.

2. Not really. It's just your own conspiraries driven by the desire to make it look as a negative due to not wanting it to change

3. Which proves them saying something won't happen at one point doesn't mean it will,.

Yes because that's totally relevant. You do realize this happened in societies where larger businesses have more over the smaller ones and brands and what not? How does the current system limit people purchasing stuff other than what they can pay for? Cause as is as long as I have gold I can buy as much as I want. You're making examples of real situations to try to make an argument which basically ends with no real actual point and only pretending you're making a point on why auction house is bad.

Rave the Histborn · May 2020

Keep everything as it is

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

They cry "Immersion" and "Harder to corner/and game the market" which are true, in the fact that it would take minutes, as opposed to an hour to do it as it is now.

It is far easier to corner the market now since only a few dedicate the time (or addons no on console) to do so.

I think it'd be much harder to corner the market with more people involved in day to day trading. Sure, it'd be easy to buy up all mats for like an hour.

Then people would log on and added more of said mat undercutting the price you just listed at. Plus you'd have to spread those out, as no one wants to buy 200 temps for 2M they'll just ask guildmates or in zone chat.

So the Arguments against it are:
1. It'd ruin trading guilds who have spent tons of hard work on keeping their spots. And we want trading to be hard because its a competition to these people and they deserve to be on top.

2. It'd be easy to corner the market. Even with all the extra people selling. Even with listing fees and limited slots. I submit on things that matter, it wont be. People will always be listing mats. They will always be listing gear. You might get someone flipping motifs or style pages or whatever, but you get that now. They just don't want it to be common. They are allowed to flip. Everyone else is not.

3. The devs already said no and that means it will never happen ever and there's no need to create threads like these because obviously never means never and no amount of complaining or support will ever change that, plus its like written into the company contract for new employees so when they get hired they must "never change the Trading system"

I'm going to ignore the consipiracy theories and people trying to extrapolate from a small forum poll that is probably biased. It's not an argument worth having because anyone can skew the numbers to mean whatever they want.

What they can't skew is that there's a non-zero percentage of the population who think the current system does not work for the silent majority of people. The ones that play a bit, don't know how to use the guild traders, and just leave the game because its not new player friendly.

Those people don't matter, apparently. The strong survive, and the weak move on to other games.

1. These guilds only last as long as the person running it keeps up with it. It also would help smaller guilds to grow if we had one as people are more likely to join ones that have a trader.

2. There is no evidence that it'd be any easier to corner the market except your claims that it would. Hmm talking of conspiracy theories. It's the same old 'people will corner the market' 'it will ruin the economy' but all there is to that is wild claims that it will.

3. Didn't they say no dragons at one point as well? Things change doesn't mean it will stay the same. This game has been changing a lot over the years.

Also as I pointed out earlier poll numbers hardly represent the entire community. Do you think everyone in game is checking the forums?

1) A global AH hinders smaller guilds as they are now in more direct competition with larger guilders. Guild traders help alleviate that.

2) There's tons of evidence based on previous MMOs with those systems and basic logic also dictates it would be easier.

If you need further evidence we can look at the toilet paper hoarding during recent events. Larger more centralized stores were out of stock because people were able to go to a location an buy the entire stock of something for an area and the only way to regulate sales was to force limits on purchasing. Unless you do the same with an AH you're asking for a system that rewards the richer.

3) They did say no dragons but the TES/ESO crew have seem to have run out of creative ideas. Luckily for us the guild aystem isn't broken so it doesn't need "fixing"

Not really. Smaller guilds are less likely to get guild traders with less support to pay for said traders. A global AH would make people join guilds on which they want to join rather than this one has a trader.

2. Not really. It's just your own conspiraries driven by the desire to make it look as a negative due to not wanting it to change

3. Which proves them saying something won't happen at one point doesn't mean it will,.

Yes because that's totally relevant. You do realize this happened in societies where larger businesses have more over the smaller ones and brands and what not? How does the current system limit people purchasing stuff other than what they can pay for? Cause as is as long as I have gold I can buy as much as I want. You're making examples of real situations to try to make an argument which basically ends with no real actual point and only pretending you're making a point on why auction house is bad.

1) The smaller guilds and solo players you think are going to get access aren't going to be able to compete with preestablished players. You claim you don't want to play trading like a game but you're advocating for a system where you have to pay closer to everything you sell, the amount of time on the auction block, and keep up with prices more often because you're competing with the entire player base. You seem to want more trading game

2) You can't just label everything that proves you wrong a "conspiracy theory" with no proof when you're presented with it. You're wrong and acting like a child and ignoring it only makes your argument look worse. MMOs with centralized AHs have existed for decades and there's obviously data backing up what is being said.

3) Which proves that with incentive of enough $$$ they will go against what they've said. There's no money to be made on breaking a system that is working as intended that a tiny portion of the forums base has a continual problem with.

It is totally relevant lol. You do realize that those larger business A) Had to start, compete, and grow into those larger businesses, so saying no one can progress in the current system is absurd of course you can.

If you feel that negatively about how businesses operate why would you be suggesting giving the guilds or same greedy people that would do that a central location for all items. Seems like it would benefit them more. C) Do you think dismantling all those trade guilds won't suddenly hurt the economy and cause wide spread theft of guild funds and over all in game problems? Seems like it would have more negative then positives.

The current system doesn't limit it and if you read what I wrote then you'd see I said it would be something you'd need to implement. If you want to prevent someone from buying everything and re flipping in a certain time frame it's your only safeguard in an AH system and it would have more negative impacts then positive.

kargen27 · May 2020

Other .. (explain)

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

They cry "Immersion" and "Harder to corner/and game the market" which are true, in the fact that it would take minutes, as opposed to an hour to do it as it is now.

It is far easier to corner the market now since only a few dedicate the time (or addons no on console) to do so.

I think it'd be much harder to corner the market with more people involved in day to day trading. Sure, it'd be easy to buy up all mats for like an hour.

Then people would log on and added more of said mat undercutting the price you just listed at. Plus you'd have to spread those out, as no one wants to buy 200 temps for 2M they'll just ask guildmates or in zone chat.

So the Arguments against it are:
1. It'd ruin trading guilds who have spent tons of hard work on keeping their spots. And we want trading to be hard because its a competition to these people and they deserve to be on top.

2. It'd be easy to corner the market. Even with all the extra people selling. Even with listing fees and limited slots. I submit on things that matter, it wont be. People will always be listing mats. They will always be listing gear. You might get someone flipping motifs or style pages or whatever, but you get that now. They just don't want it to be common. They are allowed to flip. Everyone else is not.

3. The devs already said no and that means it will never happen ever and there's no need to create threads like these because obviously never means never and no amount of complaining or support will ever change that, plus its like written into the company contract for new employees so when they get hired they must "never change the Trading system"

I'm going to ignore the consipiracy theories and people trying to extrapolate from a small forum poll that is probably biased. It's not an argument worth having because anyone can skew the numbers to mean whatever they want.

What they can't skew is that there's a non-zero percentage of the population who think the current system does not work for the silent majority of people. The ones that play a bit, don't know how to use the guild traders, and just leave the game because its not new player friendly.

Those people don't matter, apparently. The strong survive, and the weak move on to other games.

1. These guilds only last as long as the person running it keeps up with it. It also would help smaller guilds to grow if we had one as people are more likely to join ones that have a trader.

2. There is no evidence that it'd be any easier to corner the market except your claims that it would. Hmm talking of conspiracy theories. It's the same old 'people will corner the market' 'it will ruin the economy' but all there is to that is wild claims that it will.

3. Didn't they say no dragons at one point as well? Things change doesn't mean it will stay the same. This game has been changing a lot over the years.

Also as I pointed out earlier poll numbers hardly represent the entire community. Do you think everyone in game is checking the forums?

1) A global AH hinders smaller guilds as they are now in more direct competition with larger guilders. Guild traders help alleviate that.

2) There's tons of evidence based on previous MMOs with those systems and basic logic also dictates it would be easier.

If you need further evidence we can look at the toilet paper hoarding during recent events. Larger more centralized stores were out of stock because people were able to go to a location an buy the entire stock of something for an area and the only way to regulate sales was to force limits on purchasing. Unless you do the same with an AH you're asking for a system that rewards the richer.

3) They did say no dragons but the TES/ESO crew have seem to have run out of creative ideas. Luckily for us the guild aystem isn't broken so it doesn't need "fixing"

Not really. Smaller guilds are less likely to get guild traders with less support to pay for said traders. A global AH would make people join guilds on which they want to join rather than this one has a trader.

2. Not really. It's just your own conspiraries driven by the desire to make it look as a negative due to not wanting it to change

3. Which proves them saying something won't happen at one point doesn't mean it will,.

Yes because that's totally relevant. You do realize this happened in societies where larger businesses have more over the smaller ones and brands and what not? How does the current system limit people purchasing stuff other than what they can pay for? Cause as is as long as I have gold I can buy as much as I want. You're making examples of real situations to try to make an argument which basically ends with no real actual point and only pretending you're making a point on why auction house is bad.

An auction house takes away a reason many guilds exist. That aside the most active guilds I have belonged to more often than not do have a trader even if they are not a trading guild. We have five guild slots. I doubt the vast majority of players consider traders when filling those guild spots. Maybe one or two spots at most.

A central auction house makes it easier to control rare items. Three or four players could corner the market on any rare item they wish as they only have to sit at one location in shifts. The current system there is over 200 traders many that are constantly getting new inventory. Makes it much much harder to control the market on any item.

Introducing dragons was easy compared to overhauling the entire game economy. World bosses existed in the game before dragons. Dragons are a world boss with a different skin and different mechanics. A central trading system does not exist in the game and would take much more time and effort to introduce. That time and effort would be introducing an inferior economy dynamic.

The auction house is bad because common items would drop in price to vendor prices making it hard for new players to make much gold. Rare items would increase in price again making it hard for new and casual players to be able to afford those rare items. That is a double whammy on new and casual players. They can't get a good price for their items they wish to sell and can't get a good price for others items they wish to buy. Simple as that. You don't have to look at the real world to see why an auction house isn't a good idea compared to the system in place. Just visit the forums dedicated to other MMOs and read the complaints about monopolies and other problems found in an auction house setting.

Tandor · May 2020

One Auction House to rule them all

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

They cry "Immersion" and "Harder to corner/and game the market" which are true, in the fact that it would take minutes, as opposed to an hour to do it as it is now.

It is far easier to corner the market now since only a few dedicate the time (or addons no on console) to do so.

I think it'd be much harder to corner the market with more people involved in day to day trading. Sure, it'd be easy to buy up all mats for like an hour.

Then people would log on and added more of said mat undercutting the price you just listed at. Plus you'd have to spread those out, as no one wants to buy 200 temps for 2M they'll just ask guildmates or in zone chat.

So the Arguments against it are:
1. It'd ruin trading guilds who have spent tons of hard work on keeping their spots. And we want trading to be hard because its a competition to these people and they deserve to be on top.

2. It'd be easy to corner the market. Even with all the extra people selling. Even with listing fees and limited slots. I submit on things that matter, it wont be. People will always be listing mats. They will always be listing gear. You might get someone flipping motifs or style pages or whatever, but you get that now. They just don't want it to be common. They are allowed to flip. Everyone else is not.

3. The devs already said no and that means it will never happen ever and there's no need to create threads like these because obviously never means never and no amount of complaining or support will ever change that, plus its like written into the company contract for new employees so when they get hired they must "never change the Trading system"

I'm going to ignore the consipiracy theories and people trying to extrapolate from a small forum poll that is probably biased. It's not an argument worth having because anyone can skew the numbers to mean whatever they want.

What they can't skew is that there's a non-zero percentage of the population who think the current system does not work for the silent majority of people. The ones that play a bit, don't know how to use the guild traders, and just leave the game because its not new player friendly.

Those people don't matter, apparently. The strong survive, and the weak move on to other games.

1. These guilds only last as long as the person running it keeps up with it. It also would help smaller guilds to grow if we had one as people are more likely to join ones that have a trader.

2. There is no evidence that it'd be any easier to corner the market except your claims that it would. Hmm talking of conspiracy theories. It's the same old 'people will corner the market' 'it will ruin the economy' but all there is to that is wild claims that it will.

3. Didn't they say no dragons at one point as well? Things change doesn't mean it will stay the same. This game has been changing a lot over the years.

Also as I pointed out earlier poll numbers hardly represent the entire community. Do you think everyone in game is checking the forums?

1) A global AH hinders smaller guilds as they are now in more direct competition with larger guilders. Guild traders help alleviate that.

2) There's tons of evidence based on previous MMOs with those systems and basic logic also dictates it would be easier.

If you need further evidence we can look at the toilet paper hoarding during recent events. Larger more centralized stores were out of stock because people were able to go to a location an buy the entire stock of something for an area and the only way to regulate sales was to force limits on purchasing. Unless you do the same with an AH you're asking for a system that rewards the richer.

3) They did say no dragons but the TES/ESO crew have seem to have run out of creative ideas. Luckily for us the guild aystem isn't broken so it doesn't need "fixing"

A global auction house has nothing to do with guilds, it's an entirely different system. Guilds revert to what they traditonally are, fellowships of players joined together for social, adventuring, and PvP purposes, rather than just trading blocs. Trading becomes what it traditionally is, a core part of the game in which everyone can participate without restrictions. I've actively traded in most MMOs I've played since 1998 and have never experienced the kind of distortions and price-fixing that get raised in any discussion here about auction houses.

And to answer your last response to me - if you make significant changes to the way in which a system works then you are not keeping that system as it is. Those options involve saying "I'd like to keep it as it is but change A or B, and as soon as you say "but" you're not keeping it as it is.

However, see my post #208 on page 7. I'm not overly in favour of an auction house, although I think that would be better than keeping the present system as it is. My preference would be to improve the present system in the ways I outlined in that post. It would address most concerns people have with the present system while retaining all the guild trader aspects that people enjoy. It would have no deleterious effect on trading guilds and would encourage more people to take an interest in them by introducing new players to trading through a simple quest, as well as providing guilds with additional revenue.

ZaroktheImmortal · May 2020

One Auction House to rule them all

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

They cry "Immersion" and "Harder to corner/and game the market" which are true, in the fact that it would take minutes, as opposed to an hour to do it as it is now.

It is far easier to corner the market now since only a few dedicate the time (or addons no on console) to do so.

I think it'd be much harder to corner the market with more people involved in day to day trading. Sure, it'd be easy to buy up all mats for like an hour.

Then people would log on and added more of said mat undercutting the price you just listed at. Plus you'd have to spread those out, as no one wants to buy 200 temps for 2M they'll just ask guildmates or in zone chat.

So the Arguments against it are:
1. It'd ruin trading guilds who have spent tons of hard work on keeping their spots. And we want trading to be hard because its a competition to these people and they deserve to be on top.

2. It'd be easy to corner the market. Even with all the extra people selling. Even with listing fees and limited slots. I submit on things that matter, it wont be. People will always be listing mats. They will always be listing gear. You might get someone flipping motifs or style pages or whatever, but you get that now. They just don't want it to be common. They are allowed to flip. Everyone else is not.

3. The devs already said no and that means it will never happen ever and there's no need to create threads like these because obviously never means never and no amount of complaining or support will ever change that, plus its like written into the company contract for new employees so when they get hired they must "never change the Trading system"

I'm going to ignore the consipiracy theories and people trying to extrapolate from a small forum poll that is probably biased. It's not an argument worth having because anyone can skew the numbers to mean whatever they want.

What they can't skew is that there's a non-zero percentage of the population who think the current system does not work for the silent majority of people. The ones that play a bit, don't know how to use the guild traders, and just leave the game because its not new player friendly.

Those people don't matter, apparently. The strong survive, and the weak move on to other games.

1. These guilds only last as long as the person running it keeps up with it. It also would help smaller guilds to grow if we had one as people are more likely to join ones that have a trader.

2. There is no evidence that it'd be any easier to corner the market except your claims that it would. Hmm talking of conspiracy theories. It's the same old 'people will corner the market' 'it will ruin the economy' but all there is to that is wild claims that it will.

3. Didn't they say no dragons at one point as well? Things change doesn't mean it will stay the same. This game has been changing a lot over the years.

Also as I pointed out earlier poll numbers hardly represent the entire community. Do you think everyone in game is checking the forums?

1) A global AH hinders smaller guilds as they are now in more direct competition with larger guilders. Guild traders help alleviate that.

2) There's tons of evidence based on previous MMOs with those systems and basic logic also dictates it would be easier.

If you need further evidence we can look at the toilet paper hoarding during recent events. Larger more centralized stores were out of stock because people were able to go to a location an buy the entire stock of something for an area and the only way to regulate sales was to force limits on purchasing. Unless you do the same with an AH you're asking for a system that rewards the richer.

3) They did say no dragons but the TES/ESO crew have seem to have run out of creative ideas. Luckily for us the guild aystem isn't broken so it doesn't need "fixing"

Not really. Smaller guilds are less likely to get guild traders with less support to pay for said traders. A global AH would make people join guilds on which they want to join rather than this one has a trader.

2. Not really. It's just your own conspiraries driven by the desire to make it look as a negative due to not wanting it to change

3. Which proves them saying something won't happen at one point doesn't mean it will,.

Yes because that's totally relevant. You do realize this happened in societies where larger businesses have more over the smaller ones and brands and what not? How does the current system limit people purchasing stuff other than what they can pay for? Cause as is as long as I have gold I can buy as much as I want. You're making examples of real situations to try to make an argument which basically ends with no real actual point and only pretending you're making a point on why auction house is bad.

1) The smaller guilds and solo players you think are going to get access aren't going to be able to compete with preestablished players. You claim you don't want to play trading like a game but you're advocating for a system where you have to pay closer to everything you sell, the amount of time on the auction block, and keep up with prices more often because you're competing with the entire player base. You seem to want more trading game

2) You can't just label everything that proves you wrong a "conspiracy theory" with no proof when you're presented with it. You're wrong and acting like a child and ignoring it only makes your argument look worse. MMOs with centralized AHs have existed for decades and there's obviously data backing up what is being said.

3) Which proves that with incentive of enough $$$ they will go against what they've said. There's no money to be made on breaking a system that is working as intended that a tiny portion of the forums base has a continual problem with.

It is totally relevant lol. You do realize that those larger business A) Had to start, compete, and grow into those larger businesses, so saying no one can progress in the current system is absurd of course you can. If you feel that negatively about how businesses operate why would you be suggesting giving the guilds or same greedy people that would do that a central location for all items. Seems like it would benefit them more. C) Do you think dismantling all those trade guilds won't suddenly hurt the economy and cause wide spread theft of guild funds and over all in game problems? Seems like it would have more negative then positives.

The current system doesn't limit it and if you read what I wrote then you'd see I said it would be something you'd need to implement. If you want to prevent someone from buying everything and re flipping in a certain time frame it's your only safeguard in an AH system and it would have more negative impacts then positive.

1. No it isn't. There's unlimited traders for everyone and anyone can gt them right? Of course not

2. You've presented no proof. The only one acting like a child is you "I'm right cause I say so and nothing you can say makes it any different" you're basically throwing a tantrum and calling others childish for not taking your word and cause people won't agree with you on the internet

3. It works for you not for everyone

No it's not relevant. A central one would have it for all. The funny is you're trying to compare a global system to this when in reality it's the other way around. And how would you even prevent someone buying everything in current system? Last I checked you can't limit people on purchases.

ZaroktheImmortal · May 2020

One Auction House to rule them all

kargen27 wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

They cry "Immersion" and "Harder to corner/and game the market" which are true, in the fact that it would take minutes, as opposed to an hour to do it as it is now.

It is far easier to corner the market now since only a few dedicate the time (or addons no on console) to do so.

I think it'd be much harder to corner the market with more people involved in day to day trading. Sure, it'd be easy to buy up all mats for like an hour.

Then people would log on and added more of said mat undercutting the price you just listed at. Plus you'd have to spread those out, as no one wants to buy 200 temps for 2M they'll just ask guildmates or in zone chat.

So the Arguments against it are:
1. It'd ruin trading guilds who have spent tons of hard work on keeping their spots. And we want trading to be hard because its a competition to these people and they deserve to be on top.

2. It'd be easy to corner the market. Even with all the extra people selling. Even with listing fees and limited slots. I submit on things that matter, it wont be. People will always be listing mats. They will always be listing gear. You might get someone flipping motifs or style pages or whatever, but you get that now. They just don't want it to be common. They are allowed to flip. Everyone else is not.

3. The devs already said no and that means it will never happen ever and there's no need to create threads like these because obviously never means never and no amount of complaining or support will ever change that, plus its like written into the company contract for new employees so when they get hired they must "never change the Trading system"

I'm going to ignore the consipiracy theories and people trying to extrapolate from a small forum poll that is probably biased. It's not an argument worth having because anyone can skew the numbers to mean whatever they want.

What they can't skew is that there's a non-zero percentage of the population who think the current system does not work for the silent majority of people. The ones that play a bit, don't know how to use the guild traders, and just leave the game because its not new player friendly.

Those people don't matter, apparently. The strong survive, and the weak move on to other games.

1. These guilds only last as long as the person running it keeps up with it. It also would help smaller guilds to grow if we had one as people are more likely to join ones that have a trader.

2. There is no evidence that it'd be any easier to corner the market except your claims that it would. Hmm talking of conspiracy theories. It's the same old 'people will corner the market' 'it will ruin the economy' but all there is to that is wild claims that it will.

3. Didn't they say no dragons at one point as well? Things change doesn't mean it will stay the same. This game has been changing a lot over the years.

Also as I pointed out earlier poll numbers hardly represent the entire community. Do you think everyone in game is checking the forums?

1) A global AH hinders smaller guilds as they are now in more direct competition with larger guilders. Guild traders help alleviate that.

2) There's tons of evidence based on previous MMOs with those systems and basic logic also dictates it would be easier.

If you need further evidence we can look at the toilet paper hoarding during recent events. Larger more centralized stores were out of stock because people were able to go to a location an buy the entire stock of something for an area and the only way to regulate sales was to force limits on purchasing. Unless you do the same with an AH you're asking for a system that rewards the richer.

3) They did say no dragons but the TES/ESO crew have seem to have run out of creative ideas. Luckily for us the guild aystem isn't broken so it doesn't need "fixing"

Not really. Smaller guilds are less likely to get guild traders with less support to pay for said traders. A global AH would make people join guilds on which they want to join rather than this one has a trader.

2. Not really. It's just your own conspiraries driven by the desire to make it look as a negative due to not wanting it to change

3. Which proves them saying something won't happen at one point doesn't mean it will,.

Yes because that's totally relevant. You do realize this happened in societies where larger businesses have more over the smaller ones and brands and what not? How does the current system limit people purchasing stuff other than what they can pay for? Cause as is as long as I have gold I can buy as much as I want. You're making examples of real situations to try to make an argument which basically ends with no real actual point and only pretending you're making a point on why auction house is bad.

An auction house takes away a reason many guilds exist. That aside the most active guilds I have belonged to more often than not do have a trader even if they are not a trading guild. We have five guild slots. I doubt the vast majority of players consider traders when filling those guild spots. Maybe one or two spots at most.

A central auction house makes it easier to control rare items. Three or four players could corner the market on any rare item they wish as they only have to sit at one location in shifts. The current system there is over 200 traders many that are constantly getting new inventory. Makes it much much harder to control the market on any item.

Introducing dragons was easy compared to overhauling the entire game economy. World bosses existed in the game before dragons. Dragons are a world boss with a different skin and different mechanics. A central trading system does not exist in the game and would take much more time and effort to introduce. That time and effort would be introducing an inferior economy dynamic.

The auction house is bad because common items would drop in price to vendor prices making it hard for new players to make much gold. Rare items would increase in price again making it hard for new and casual players to be able to afford those rare items. That is a double whammy on new and casual players. They can't get a good price for their items they wish to sell and can't get a good price for others items they wish to buy. Simple as that. You don't have to look at the real world to see why an auction house isn't a good idea compared to the system in place. Just visit the forums dedicated to other MMOs and read the complaints about monopolies and other problems found in an auction house setting.

From what I've seen most bigger guilds have a trader and often they either charge members or run raffles to try to pay for them. Take that away and they can focus on other aspects. Besides guilds can exist for other reasons heck there's many active guilds in games that have auction houses.

No a central auction house doesn't let you control rare items I mean no more than now. How does letting anyone put things up for trade do that? If anything it'd decrease the chance of this happening since anyone else could trade the same item.

Umm it's not as big of a change as you try to make it sound. It'd literally just be changing it so everyone can trade items. It's not like that would take much more effort than anything else added to the game.

And the current system is good for new players? Oh wait no you have to find a guild with a trader and hope they keep it. Want to join a trading guild? Have to pay fees. So how is it easy for new players? Answer is it's not.

FlopsyPrince · May 2020

One Auction House to rule them all

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

The economy worked "fine" but that's the problem, fine is fine, but this system works better. Opening up access to the AH isn't the same thing as accessibility. Just because everyone suddenly gets access to the market doesn't mean all of a sudden they're going to sell good. They now have to compete with everyone else and if you can't survive all the inevitable and significant under cutting or cornering the market on mats

Who says the economy worked fine? When was that?

Just because people played in spite of something doesn't mean it was working fine.

Think about how it was before they put map markers for the Psijic stuff down when you got close. Or multi-crafting. You could argue those should be removed since it was "working as intended" before and added needlessly.

That would be a poor argument of course, now that we have both, but it is the same argument with the very frustrating selling system now. People work with it because it is there. That does not prove it is good.

Correlation does not prove causation! (Because something exists doesn't prove that another existence at the same time caused it - playing the game doesn't prove the purchasing systems works well.)