Auction Houses: yes or no?

kargen27

Other .. (explain)

"This is not ture. This system keeps the ones with the gold making the most gold. Trading guilds that can fight for the best and prime spot, keeps them making the most money. Convenience is king."

When I was in a big trade guild I made about the same in my trade guild as I did in the social guild I belong to that has an isolated spot. There were weeks when I could make much more in my trade guild because that is where I put rare items. The main reason I put the rare items in the trade guild wasn't because they would sell quicker (a nice bonus sometimes) but because I wanted the trade guild to get the taxes.
I could list items at a higher price in the trading guild and they would still sell but I couldn't get outrageous with the increase.

"What I was implying is that if the population is so low, despite there being plenty of available positions for more players to get involved, there's probably something intrinsically lacking from that system."

More than likely just normal turnaround found in any MMO. All the guilds I am in have players come and go. Trade guilds are more active in keeping membership up near 500 and that is why they tend to do more recruiting.

"There's most likely a good reason for the frequency of threads that constantly bring the issue up as well."

Yes there is. The same few people think if they mention it enough they will get a result they want. No matter the frequency of threads nor the timing of the threads the results are consistent. The majority of players in those threads do not want a change. Doesn't mean much though as the forums are not a good representation of the game population. What people say in the forums doesn't mean anything compared to what the thriving economy inside the game tells us.

PizzaCat82

A few auction houses, like one in each capital

Or it could be different people starting threads. Who knows?

Rave the Histborn

Keep everything as it is

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Trading should not have a difficulty curve. There should not be barriers to entry beyond playing the game and reaching a capital city.

The fact that some people claim the world would end if everything wasn't controlled by 10 trading guilds goes to show how much of an ego they have and how much the game has pandered to their pettiness.

The fact you keep intentionally ignoring facts about guild traders shows your true intentions. If you changed guild traders the guild system would break. There absolutely should be barriers to a guild store just like there's requirements to everything else in the game.

Finding a guild a with a store is easier than ever, guild dues are cheap and easy to hit for 99% of guilds, and if you don't like it and you really need to play solo you can always use zonechat to sell.

ScardyFox

One Auction House to rule them all

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

The fact that some people claim the world would end if everything wasn't controlled by 10 trading guilds goes to show how much of an ego they have and how much the game has pandered to their pettiness.

PizzaCat82

A few auction houses, like one in each capital

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Trading should not have a difficulty curve. There should not be barriers to entry beyond playing the game and reaching a capital city.

The fact that some people claim the world would end if everything wasn't controlled by 10 trading guilds goes to show how much of an ego they have and how much the game has pandered to their pettiness.

The fact you keep intentionally ignoring facts about guild traders shows your true intentions. If you changed guild traders the guild system would break. There absolutely should be barriers to a guild store just like there's requirements to everything else in the game.

Finding a guild a with a store is easier than ever, guild dues are cheap and easy to hit for 99% of guilds, and if you don't like it and you really need to play solo you can always use zonechat to sell.

I'm not ignoring anything, trading guilds can still exist without guild traders. I've also seen the potential for guilds to be completely horrible to eachother in the name of competition.

If we can have the positives without the negatives, why not get rid of the parts that cause all the problems?

I'm in 5 guilds, GM of 2 and Admin in a 3rd. I've seen 5 or 6 Trading guilds go under merely because they dared to compete with bigger ones.

Rave the Histborn

Keep everything as it is

daemonios wrote: »

Raammzzaa wrote: »

Eifleber wrote: »

When I started playing I was quite surprised that ESO didn't have any centralized buying and selling mechanic. Which I found rather strange since I don't see the added value

The added value is that some of us are really into trading in ESO, and love the mini-game that is trading, flipping, arbitrage, farming, and playing politics that is made especially possible by the guild traders / trading guilds model as it exists in ESO. I really love this aspect of the game (in addition to PvP, though I would argue that trading sometimes is PvP lol).

This is the first time I see someone freely admit that the trading game in and of itself is why someone doesn't want an AH. I understand why you enjoy it. I also think it hurts the game by putting unnecessary hurdles in front of players and raising prices to levels a new and/or casual player may not be able to afford. I find arguments to the effect that guild traders prevent market manipulation disingenuous. If that was really the concern, the focus should be on the ability to resell items at a mark-up, not whether you do it in a guild trader or an AH.

Have you actually played a game with a central AH system?

The trader system doesn't put any unnecessary hurdles in front of the player (joining a guild isn't unnecessary) and it makes trading cheaper and easier for them as they are competing for sales with other guildies and not the entire player base.

The guild trader doesn't prevent manipulation, nothing can do that but it does limit it significantly more than a central AH would.

How would you prevent mark ups though and how would you do it without destroying your playerbase? What if I accidently sell something via type for 1000 instead of 10,000 or 100,000? Can I then never sell that item for the right price? Wouldn't that idea just bomb out the economy?

Stx

A few auction houses, like one in each capital

God I love having to use an outside source to find the best prices, then porting all over tamriel hoping the item is still there.

OH WAIT, I DONT.

kargen27

Other .. (explain)

Stx wrote: »

God I love having to use an outside source to find the best prices, then porting all over tamriel hoping the item is still there.

OH WAIT, I DONT.

Then don't.

I don't like farming materials so I don't. Keeps me happy.

indigorune

Add more guild stores per city

barney2525 wrote: »

Requring - not optional - Requiring players to join a Trading guild that Will charge some amount of gold per week just for the option of being able to sell anything is ridiculous.

Not being able to see All the available product that you are looking for and that is on sale is Ridiculous.

Wasting time running from zone to zone trying to find what you are looking for - instead of actually playing the game - is Ridiculous.

IMHO

Hey just for the record, there are plenty of trade guilds that don't have fees. Even some of the big ones--they care about you consistently playing, keeping your slots filled, and sometimes guild participation. It's not always about paying a fee.

Shop around guilds in the guild search function in game. I guarantee you will find something that works for you.

Commancho

One Auction House to rule them all

Auction house will be OK, but only IF there will be a limit how many items you can buy/sell (daily for example). To avoid speculations on a mass scale. For example a limit of 10 items daily per account.

Rave the Histborn

Keep everything as it is

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Trading should not have a difficulty curve. There should not be barriers to entry beyond playing the game and reaching a capital city.

The fact that some people claim the world would end if everything wasn't controlled by 10 trading guilds goes to show how much of an ego they have and how much the game has pandered to their pettiness.

The fact you keep intentionally ignoring facts about guild traders shows your true intentions. If you changed guild traders the guild system would break. There absolutely should be barriers to a guild store just like there's requirements to everything else in the game.

Finding a guild a with a store is easier than ever, guild dues are cheap and easy to hit for 99% of guilds, and if you don't like it and you really need to play solo you can always use zonechat to sell.

I'm not ignoring anything, trading guilds can still exist without guild traders. I've also seen the potential for guilds to be completely horrible to eachother in the name of competition.

If we can have the positives without the negatives, why not get rid of the parts that cause all the problems?

I'm in 5 guilds, GM of 2 and Admin in a 3rd. I've seen 5 or 6 Trading guilds go under merely because they dared to compete with bigger ones.

Nothing in life is flawless and adding or changing the system is also going to add the problems faced by traders and players

indigorune

Add more guild stores per city

Nanfoodle wrote: »

Its clear about 45% want to see things change. Current system is broken by design.

You are misusing the polls statistics. 45% want to see things change -- yes, 9% of that belongs to people who like the current system, but would love it to actually go a step further by adding more traders (me included), and 2% of that belongs to people who want things to stay as is, but ban TTC. And 3% sasid "Other...", and their opinions vary from "make this one tiny change" to "overhaul the system" so it isn't really usable here.

All in all, what we can actually conclude from this poll is that around 32% want some form of auction house, while about 61% want guild traders to stay. Your logic is flawed.

A majority of players, according to this poll of 406 people, want ZOS to keep the guild trader system in place.

indigorune

Add more guild stores per city

Nanfoodle wrote: »

How do you think people profit from their sales in this game? Not all equally. These guilds chucking around millions of gold can do so because they maintain where they sell. IMO that needs to be removed. Place guild vendors outside of hubs and make them just as convenient as any other trader. Been MMOing for 22 years and this is the most riged system I have seen for buying and selling goods. As I have stated, I love this game, I hate the way trading is done.

Interesting.. A few weeks ago my trade guild made a move from a mid-tier trade location to a mid/high-tier location. How did we manage to move up? If things are so rigged and these evil big guilds have good spots so cornered... how did we work our way up?

Ingenon

Keep everything as it is

I play on PS4 and belong to social guilds that often have a trader in the non-capital locations. No add-ons on console, and I usually end up looking up PC item prices on TTC and/or The Dwemer Automaton and listing the item a bit less than the average. And almost everything I list ends up selling. When shopping I end up traveling to multiple traders and buying the item at the cheapest price I can find.

Still I don't think a central auction house would be an improvement. Because ZOS needs a gold sink in ESO, and there could be market-cornering of rare items.

I would like to see ZOS improve the user interface for buying and selling on consoles to display the average list price for the item on that megaserver. Not real time data, I don't think that the servers couldn't handle it, but even data through last night similar to what you get from The Dwemer Automaton on PC would be very helpful.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Add more guild stores per city

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Trading should not have a difficulty curve. There should not be barriers to entry beyond playing the game and reaching a capital city.

The fact that some people claim the world would end if everything wasn't controlled by 10 trading guilds goes to show how much of an ego they have and how much the game has pandered to their pettiness.

The fact you keep intentionally ignoring facts about guild traders shows your true intentions. If you changed guild traders the guild system would break. There absolutely should be barriers to a guild store just like there's requirements to everything else in the game.

Finding a guild a with a store is easier than ever, guild dues are cheap and easy to hit for 99% of guilds, and if you don't like it and you really need to play solo you can always use zonechat to sell.

I'm not ignoring anything, trading guilds can still exist without guild traders. I've also seen the potential for guilds to be completely horrible to eachother in the name of competition.

If we can have the positives without the negatives, why not get rid of the parts that cause all the problems?

I'm in 5 guilds, GM of 2 and Admin in a 3rd. I've seen 5 or 6 Trading guilds go under merely because they dared to compete with bigger ones.

Serious question and curious....
How are you GM of 2 guilds as you can only be GM of one guild at a time in ESO. 2nd account?
I have acted as GM in guilds before when they were AFK, but not actual GM. Just curious...

Tandor

One Auction House to rule them all

n0tthesun wrote: »

Nanfoodle wrote: »

Its clear about 45% want to see things change. Current system is broken by design.

You are misusing the polls statistics. 45% want to see things change -- yes, 9% of that belongs to people who like the current system, but would love it to actually go a step further by adding more traders (me included), and 2% of that belongs to people who want things to stay as is, but ban TTC. And 3% sasid "Other...", and their opinions vary from "make this one tiny change" to "overhaul the system" so it isn't really usable here.

All in all, what we can actually conclude from this poll is that around 32% want some form of auction house, while about 61% want guild traders to stay. Your logic is flawed.

A majority of players, according to this poll of 406 people, want ZOS to keep the guild trader system in place.

Although there isn't a majority for keeping the present system in place as is. That's the same with every poll on this, there is never a majority in favour of a new system, nor is there one in favour of keeping the present system as is. The common theme is that a majority of players don't like the present system as it is, and either want a new system or some improvement to the existing one - and it isn't wild speculation to suggest that most of those who do favour keeping things as they are will be PC traders using add-ons, so at best they can only represent one third of the playerbase. ZOS have themselves defended the present system on the sole basis that opinion about it is evenly divided.

idk

Keep everything as it is

Eifleber wrote: »

I am not against guild traders.

If there were a way to have a real time overview of everything that's for sale and where I would be perfectly fine with what we have.

But there isn' t.

-- Your arguments:
"But it's a gold sink": meh. Just add a 10% tax on Auction Houses and a lot more gold will be removed from the game.
"But it's always been this way": that is no argument. If it were up to you, we would still live in caves and hunt animals with stone clubs.
"We don't want another WoW": Guild traders aren't the discerning difference. ESO with AH would still be ESO and WoW with guild traders would still be WoW.

@Eifleber

It seems you are cherry-picking responses here and avoiding the ones that stand on solid logic.

Let's face the facts here. A whopping 60+% of respondents to the poll dismiss out of hand the idea of an auction house and less than 1/3 wanting an auction house system of any design.

That is a very solid dismissal of your proposal.

Sylosi

A few auction houses, like one in each capital

SImple, keep the guild traders and put up a global auction house, let the market decide.

Daimonion82

One Auction House to rule them all

In those threads I'm always wondering - why people are still defending current system, yet at the same time using TTC and MM. Show me one trader, who play the game as it is designed. Without addons nobody knows how much specific item is worth. Also if you for example need green recipe for provisioning writs (because you've just leveled skill), you can buy it from vendor for 800 gold or wander across Tamriel for a week to find one at guild trader for 100 (checking all backpacks during the trip, because you'll probably find it sooner in one of them). And that is why I'm calling this system insane.

newtinmpls

Other .. (explain)

n0tthesun wrote: »

A few weeks ago my trade guild made a move from a mid-tier trade location to a mid/high-tier location. How did we manage to move up? If things are so rigged and these evil big guilds have good spots so cornered... how did we work our way up?

Well... daderic sacrifices, clearly!

PizzaCat82

A few auction houses, like one in each capital

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Trading should not have a difficulty curve. There should not be barriers to entry beyond playing the game and reaching a capital city.

The fact that some people claim the world would end if everything wasn't controlled by 10 trading guilds goes to show how much of an ego they have and how much the game has pandered to their pettiness.

The fact you keep intentionally ignoring facts about guild traders shows your true intentions. If you changed guild traders the guild system would break. There absolutely should be barriers to a guild store just like there's requirements to everything else in the game.

Finding a guild a with a store is easier than ever, guild dues are cheap and easy to hit for 99% of guilds, and if you don't like it and you really need to play solo you can always use zonechat to sell.

I'm not ignoring anything, trading guilds can still exist without guild traders. I've also seen the potential for guilds to be completely horrible to eachother in the name of competition.

If we can have the positives without the negatives, why not get rid of the parts that cause all the problems?

I'm in 5 guilds, GM of 2 and Admin in a 3rd. I've seen 5 or 6 Trading guilds go under merely because they dared to compete with bigger ones.

Serious question and curious....
How are you GM of 2 guilds as you can only be GM of one guild at a time in ESO. 2nd account?
I have acted as GM in guilds before when they were AFK, but not actual GM. Just curious...

2 PS4s. Its the same way I can have 24 characters and complain about event RNG every year.

And I don't know any main capital trading guilds on consoles that don't have fees. PC Players need to realize the world and game doesn't revolve around them.

TropicsDelight

Other .. (explain)

Normally I am all for regionalized non-global trading systems like the ESO guild traders. This can create regional markets for goods and the chance to become a merchant trader traveling to various places where goods are common, buying up stock, and then traveling to a dustant land where those items are rare and sell at a premium.

EQ1 had this in a sense with firebug eyes, they were required to cast a druid spell, and while many druids were wood elves born in Kelethin you needed to cross half the world to get a firebug eye. For the rare druid that made the trip (it took a long time and was quite dangerous) you could stock up on eyes, travel back home, and sell those eyes like they were treasure, and they kinda were.

Unfortunately the waypoint system has completely killed any chance of the above happening as anyone can go anywhere and back in mere seconds. It is a sad reality about the loss in a MMORPG when you get too much convenience in travel. There are tradeoffs.

As such I do not think the regionalized guild trader system actually adds that much to the system at this point. A global auction house would simply consolidate the trade and stop waypoint jumping from guild trader node to guild trader node. Any semblance of regional trade is already dead, might as well centralize the whole system. Allow anyone to post goods through an NPC controlled auction house with auction houses in each major city. Whether to link them or not, it does not really matter, you might as well since a player can travel between major cities in 10 seconds.

Rave the Histborn

Keep everything as it is

Daimonion82 wrote: »

In those threads I'm always wondering - why people are still defending current system, yet at the same time using TTC and MM. Show me one trader, who play the game as it is designed. Without addons nobody knows how much specific item is worth. Also if you for example need green recipe for provisioning writs (because you've just leveled skill), you can buy it from vendor for 800 gold or wander across Tamriel for a week to find one at guild trader for 100 (checking all backpacks during the trip, because you'll probably find it sooner in one of them). And that is why I'm calling this system insane.

Show me a pver, a pvper, or anyone else for that matter that plays the game as designed when they have the option of add ons. Just because you wanna exaggerate about items doesn't make the system bad.

Tandor

One Auction House to rule them all

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Daimonion82 wrote: »

In those threads I'm always wondering - why people are still defending current system, yet at the same time using TTC and MM. Show me one trader, who play the game as it is designed. Without addons nobody knows how much specific item is worth. Also if you for example need green recipe for provisioning writs (because you've just leveled skill), you can buy it from vendor for 800 gold or wander across Tamriel for a week to find one at guild trader for 100 (checking all backpacks during the trip, because you'll probably find it sooner in one of them). And that is why I'm calling this system insane.

Show me a pver, a pvper, or anyone else for that matter that plays the game as designed when they have the option of add ons. Just because you wanna exaggerate about items doesn't make the system bad.

Not all PC players use add-ons. I've never used a single one, and I'm not alone in that. However, the point about the trading add-ons is that they create a level of effectiveness for the trading system on PC that isn't available on either console platform. As such they distort the argument in favour of the present trading system with a lot of PC traders saying they wouldn't bother with trading if they couldn't use the add-ons that are denied to other players.

indigorune

Add more guild stores per city

Tandor wrote: »

n0tthesun wrote: »

Nanfoodle wrote: »

Its clear about 45% want to see things change. Current system is broken by design.

You are misusing the polls statistics. 45% want to see things change -- yes, 9% of that belongs to people who like the current system, but would love it to actually go a step further by adding more traders (me included), and 2% of that belongs to people who want things to stay as is, but ban TTC. And 3% sasid "Other...", and their opinions vary from "make this one tiny change" to "overhaul the system" so it isn't really usable here.

All in all, what we can actually conclude from this poll is that around 32% want some form of auction house, while about 61% want guild traders to stay. Your logic is flawed.

A majority of players, according to this poll of 406 people, want ZOS to keep the guild trader system in place.

Although there isn't a majority for keeping the present system in place as is. That's the same with every poll on this, there is never a majority in favour of a new system, nor is there one in favour of keeping the present system as is. The common theme is that a majority of players don't like the present system as it is, and either want a new system or some improvement to the existing one - and it isn't wild speculation to suggest that most of those who do favour keeping things as they are will be PC traders using add-ons, so at best they can only represent one third of the playerbase. ZOS have themselves defended the present system on the sole basis that opinion about it is evenly divided.

Are you saying that > 50% isn't majority? You are arguing against math. Sorry, but you will never win that argument.

Tigerseye

Other .. (explain)

Commancho wrote: »

Auction house will be OK, but only IF there will be a limit how many items you can buy/sell (daily for example). To avoid speculations on a mass scale. For example a limit of 10 items daily per account.

That might not be enough for a person buying furniture to decorate a house, for example.

Also, that might be OK if all mats were being sold as full stacks, but not if people were selling small quantities, at a time.

As many do, currently, due to the lack of a basic crafting bag.

Tigerseye

Other .. (explain)

n0tthesun wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

n0tthesun wrote: »

Nanfoodle wrote: »

Its clear about 45% want to see things change. Current system is broken by design.

You are misusing the polls statistics. 45% want to see things change -- yes, 9% of that belongs to people who like the current system, but would love it to actually go a step further by adding more traders (me included), and 2% of that belongs to people who want things to stay as is, but ban TTC. And 3% sasid "Other...", and their opinions vary from "make this one tiny change" to "overhaul the system" so it isn't really usable here.

All in all, what we can actually conclude from this poll is that around 32% want some form of auction house, while about 61% want guild traders to stay. Your logic is flawed.

A majority of players, according to this poll of 406 people, want ZOS to keep the guild trader system in place.

Although there isn't a majority for keeping the present system in place as is. That's the same with every poll on this, there is never a majority in favour of a new system, nor is there one in favour of keeping the present system as is. The common theme is that a majority of players don't like the present system as it is, and either want a new system or some improvement to the existing one - and it isn't wild speculation to suggest that most of those who do favour keeping things as they are will be PC traders using add-ons, so at best they can only represent one third of the playerbase. ZOS have themselves defended the present system on the sole basis that opinion about it is evenly divided.

Are you saying that > 50% isn't majority? You are arguing against math. Sorry, but you will never win that argument.

Doesn't really work like that, as:


a) Proportionately, most of the people who use the forums fall into the more "hardcore" part of the playerbase; as opposed to the "casuals", who make up the actual majority of the playerbase, but don't tend to visit the forums. Therefore, an isolated poll, like this, cannot be considered representative.

b) The anti guild store vote, which is also 50% currently, has been split into multiple parts. Whereas, the pro-guild store vote hasn't, unless you include the "Add more guild stores per city." option, which most ardent pro-guild store people (including most guild leaders) will, almost certainly, be against.


If a poll was taken amongst the playbase, as a whole, it is extremely likely that a centralised system would prevail, mainly for the sake of convenience, more than anything else.

As I say, I would favour a combined system, personally, as I know there are pros and cons to both.

However, that would be my prediction as to what most other people would want, if asked.

Tigerseye

Other .. (explain)

kargen27 wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

God I love having to use an outside source to find the best prices, then porting all over tamriel hoping the item is still there.

OH WAIT, I DONT.

Then don't.

I don't like farming materials so I don't. Keeps me happy.

So, your answer to him saying he hates trying to buy something, in this game, is just don't bother?

Never buy anything at all, ever?

Don't you think that is a little unreasonable?

If you don't like farming, you can go and buy what you need.

Whereas, if he doesn't like trying to buy things, he just has to go without, because you can't reliably farm for most specific things, in ESO.

Tigerseye

Other .. (explain)

daemonios wrote: »

or an outright ban (temporary or permanent) on reposting store-bought items.

Only problem with that, is what is to stop someone sending the item to their alt account, to resell?

You would also have to prevent that.

Also, what about people who buy something by accident?

Allow them to relist it, for anything up to what they paid for it, but no more (or maybe no more, over and above fees) + no sending to another account?

Tigerseye

Other .. (explain)

Sanctum74 wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

I mean common sense says one auction house. The people who want it to stay the same, are the same people who think animation canceling is really good for the game.


It is bad game design to need to use something outside of the game, just to fully make use of a in game system.

Straw men don't help your argument. I find ESO's combat, animation cancelling included, one of the game's strongest points. Yet I'm also in favour of a single AH/store. Let's not conflate entirely separate issues.

I mean i don't need a argument. No point? Anyone who tried to get new people into the game, Knows trying to explain the combat, and watching them quit because of how bad it is. We all been through it.

I'm just stating that a single ah would be good for the game, So would a combat overhaul. Yet, we got people to this day defending the weakest element of the game. So it does not matter, noone is going to change each other mind.

So I'm just going to say it. AH and Combat both need changes to make the game better, and to help get new blood into the game.

If people are too lazy to learn combat or switch zones to find an item they are looking for then it’s probably better they switch games.

It is not about being lazy, it is about it being bad and not fun. Here is the thing about pro AC people. They act like, what they do requires so much skill, and is the hardest thing to do. It is not.

What they don't understand, it is tedious and not fun to do. And it looks stupid, and has no place in a RPG at all.

Then don’t animation cancel, you have a choice so stop trying to change the game for your own selfish interests and hijacking threads that have nothing to do with animation canceling.

Again, doesn't work like that.

That's like saying people have the "choice" of walking everywhere, instead of driving a car, when they know it will take them far too long, to get anywhere they need to go, if they do.

"Just don't do it, then." is rarely the answer, unless you are talking about doing things (like events), that you don't really want to do and will just get you things that you don't even really want.

It is not an answer in a game where doing lower DPS as a result will, almost certainly, prevent you from doing some of the content you have paid for (assuming you want to do that content).