Auction Houses: yes or no?

FlopsyPrince

One Auction House to rule them all

idk wrote: »

n0tthesun wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Responses to his poll show.
32% (152 votes) for some sort of auction house.
64% (301 votes) are against any Auction House.

This and every other poll and discussion on this end the same way majority of votes are for NO Auction House, and that ZOS has started NO to Auction House request. Can we finally stop this silliness.

Yet only 51% want to keep the present system as it is. That is why it will always be a regular topic for discussion. Only when the present system is improved so that more people support it will the idea of a different system finally be laid to rest.

Also, it's highly likely that the narrow majority who support the present system as it is will be slanted towards PC players with add-ons, it's highly unlikely that there is a majority of console players in favour of keeping the present system as it is. If the present system was to be improved in such a way that more console players supported it then that would also be likely to lay the idea of a different system to rest.

However, all the time the polls show either side of 50% against keeping the present system unchanged, as they have done over the years, sometimes one way and sometimes the other way but always by a small margin, it will be a regular topic for discussion.

And only 21% want one Auction House. 11% want more than one Auction House, which is similar to what we have now with the Guild system.

Of those wanting no Auction House 51% want it to stay as is, 8% want more guilds, 4% want to keep it as is but remove TTC.

And to add to this, the question (IN THE TITLE) is if we do or do not want auction houses. So that is what we should be looking at here. I do not appreciate my choice of "add MORE traders" being pooled in with those who voted YES to auction houses. That makes absolutely no sense. If I didn't think this topic was completely ridiculous in the first place, I would suggest a poll that was less flawed:

AUCTION HOUSE?
1_YES
2_NO

You are absolutely correct. I would hope someone is not making such a blatant error.


The fact is that as of now, with 477 votes, only 1/3 have an interest in some sort of auction house. A supermajority has loudly spoken that they want to keep the guild trader system.

While I am expecting OP was thinking people would support their opinion but instead we spoke loudly that we are tired of the stale systems of old games and prefer the more social guild design and one that is not as easy for bots to manipulate.

You are extrapolating to the wide player base based on a very limited number of responses here.

The ones who like the current broken buying/selling system are more likely to be here and support it is the only point a poll like this really makes.

Even suggestions to put things in the game to make it possible/easier to find things and prices is shouted down (rhetorically). No TTC on the PS4, but we can eat cake (during the anniversary event! So all is fine?

Fix the problem of finding things and prices and a lot of this would go away. That is the core issue. Let me find immediately (in game) what something is selling for in various places and where those are and I will live with traveling there to make the purchase, if that is my goal. Hunting from seller to seller looking for a bargain is not the norm for most of us and is not a desirable part of the game. It even ranks below finding skyshards for the Nth time on another alt!

FlopsyPrince

One Auction House to rule them all

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Last I checked you can't limit people on purchases.

You can if they can't find it!

Rave the Histborn

Keep everything as it is

Tandor wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

They cry "Immersion" and "Harder to corner/and game the market" which are true, in the fact that it would take minutes, as opposed to an hour to do it as it is now.

It is far easier to corner the market now since only a few dedicate the time (or addons no on console) to do so.

I think it'd be much harder to corner the market with more people involved in day to day trading. Sure, it'd be easy to buy up all mats for like an hour.

Then people would log on and added more of said mat undercutting the price you just listed at. Plus you'd have to spread those out, as no one wants to buy 200 temps for 2M they'll just ask guildmates or in zone chat.

So the Arguments against it are:
1. It'd ruin trading guilds who have spent tons of hard work on keeping their spots. And we want trading to be hard because its a competition to these people and they deserve to be on top.


2. It'd be easy to corner the market. Even with all the extra people selling. Even with listing fees and limited slots. I submit on things that matter, it wont be. People will always be listing mats. They will always be listing gear. You might get someone flipping motifs or style pages or whatever, but you get that now. They just don't want it to be common. They are allowed to flip. Everyone else is not.

3. The devs already said no and that means it will never happen ever and there's no need to create threads like these because obviously never means never and no amount of complaining or support will ever change that, plus its like written into the company contract for new employees so when they get hired they must "never change the Trading system"

I'm going to ignore the consipiracy theories and people trying to extrapolate from a small forum poll that is probably biased. It's not an argument worth having because anyone can skew the numbers to mean whatever they want.

What they can't skew is that there's a non-zero percentage of the population who think the current system does not work for the silent majority of people. The ones that play a bit, don't know how to use the guild traders, and just leave the game because its not new player friendly.

Those people don't matter, apparently. The strong survive, and the weak move on to other games.

1. These guilds only last as long as the person running it keeps up with it. It also would help smaller guilds to grow if we had one as people are more likely to join ones that have a trader.

2. There is no evidence that it'd be any easier to corner the market except your claims that it would. Hmm talking of conspiracy theories. It's the same old 'people will corner the market' 'it will ruin the economy' but all there is to that is wild claims that it will.

3. Didn't they say no dragons at one point as well? Things change doesn't mean it will stay the same. This game has been changing a lot over the years.

Also as I pointed out earlier poll numbers hardly represent the entire community. Do you think everyone in game is checking the forums?

1) A global AH hinders smaller guilds as they are now in more direct competition with larger guilders. Guild traders help alleviate that.

2) There's tons of evidence based on previous MMOs with those systems and basic logic also dictates it would be easier.

If you need further evidence we can look at the toilet paper hoarding during recent events. Larger more centralized stores were out of stock because people were able to go to a location an buy the entire stock of something for an area and the only way to regulate sales was to force limits on purchasing. Unless you do the same with an AH you're asking for a system that rewards the richer.

3) They did say no dragons but the TES/ESO crew have seem to have run out of creative ideas. Luckily for us the guild aystem isn't broken so it doesn't need "fixing"

A global auction house has nothing to do with guilds, it's an entirely different system. Guilds revert to what they traditonally are, fellowships of players joined together for social, adventuring, and PvP purposes, rather than just trading blocs. Trading becomes what it traditionally is, a core part of the game in which everyone can participate without restrictions. I've actively traded in most MMOs I've played since 1998 and have never experienced the kind of distortions and price-fixing that get raised in any discussion here about auction houses.

And to answer your last response to me - if you make significant changes to the way in which a system works then you are not keeping that system as it is. Those options involve saying "I'd like to keep it as it is but change A or B, and as soon as you say "but" you're not keeping it as it is.

However, see my post #208 on page 7. I'm not overly in favour of an auction house, although I think that would be better than keeping the present system as it is. My preference would be to improve the present system in the ways I outlined in that post. It would address most concerns people have with the present system while retaining all the guild trader aspects that people enjoy. It would have no deleterious effect on trading guilds and would encourage more people to take an interest in them by introducing new players to trading through a simple quest, as well as providing guilds with additional revenue.

So you're saying we should turn guilds from having a purpose to having none at all, WoW-style. Trading goes back to being a constant game of monitoring every couple hours, constant reposting because you're no longer competing with a small fraction of the player base in an area and now the entirety of your server. Players now have "access" to be able to sell their goods but make significantly less between the eventual gold sink the guilds take on that now gets passed directly onto them and less sales as supply and demand kicks in and you now focus on the absolute best price vs getting a deal without leaving a zone.

Guilds become pointless as there's no reason to join one outside of endgame trials or potentially pvp, the player limit of 500 players is rarely reached as there is no point in recruiting to those levels. By changing how traders work you also mess with the economy in general, do you think smaller players are going to be able to compete with former GMs that now have full banks and no trading guild?

I quit WoW because of how useless every system they originally created became. Can we not do that here?

And to answer your last response to me - if you make significant changes to the way in which a system works then you are not keeping that system as it is. Those options involve saying "I'd like to keep it as it is but change A or B, and as soon as you say "but" you're not keeping it as it is.
I'm confused, is it significant changes or as soon as you say "but" because those are completely different examples you gave. Significant changes entail changing how the aystem works which is what you're arguing for as even 1 or 2 would significantly change trading.

Insignificant changes would be removing something like TTC. It's an external website that monitors prices and if it was to shut down right now your trading experience would only effect people using it. It doesn't change the function of trading and how it is performed in game.

Rave the Histborn

Keep everything as it is

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

The economy worked "fine" but that's the problem, fine is fine, but this system works better. Opening up access to the AH isn't the same thing as accessibility. Just because everyone suddenly gets access to the market doesn't mean all of a sudden they're going to sell good. They now have to compete with everyone else and if you can't survive all the inevitable and significant under cutting or cornering the market on mats

Who says the economy worked fine? When was that?

Just because people played in spite of something doesn't mean it was working fine.

Think about how it was before they put map markers for the Psijic stuff down when you got close. Or multi-crafting. You could argue those should be removed since it was "working as intended" before and added needlessly.

That would be a poor argument of course, now that we have both, but it is the same argument with the very frustrating selling system now. People work with it because it is there. That does not prove it is good.

Correlation does not prove causation! (Because something exists doesn't prove that another existence at the same time caused it - playing the game doesn't prove the purchasing systems works well.)

The economy has always worked fine, just because you have a small portion of people loudly shouting everything isn't working doesnt mean it isn't.

We could also argue that constantly appeasing a vocal minority instead of making them learn like everyone else does more harm than good. You want to give people fish instead of teaching them to fish because your end goal is just "people need fish". Some changes can be good not all changes are good.

Correlation does not prove causation is a falisy as it also doesn't disprove it either but it is intended to just end the argument.

PizzaCat82

A few auction houses, like one in each capital

The economy works fine for most people. But shouldn't it work fine for everyone?

Things trading guilds can do besides raise money for top spots and fight over who gets what spot:

1. Help new players level
2. Show members where to farm chests and items.
3. Sell items to members directly and save money
4. Run trials
5. Fish
6. Buy and Sell crafting services and let other members know if there's a motif out there that is needed
7. Buy and Sell crowns
8. Buy and Sell carries
9. Hell, they can still have raffles, private auctions, and giveaways.

Trading guilds wont fall apart unless they weren't together except for the tedium of raising money for that top trader spot. And coming from several trader guilds, that fund raising and bidding gets old really quick.


Things that did not work fine, economically speaking:
1. Ghost Guilds to secure bids
2. Insane compeition to secure spots in trading capitals
3. Not having a spot at all because your medium guild lost their bid and didn't have enough money to win any backup bids
4. Being a new player and being expected to pay $20,000 a week for the privilege.
5. Trying to sell in zone chat and having 0 people want to pay actual value and having 5 people insta-messaging you to offer half the asking price, or agreeing to asking price and then putting half of that in the trade window.

Rave the Histborn

Keep everything as it is

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

The economy works fine for most people. But shouldn't it work fine for everyone?

Things trading guilds can do besides raise money for top spots and fight over who gets what spot:

1. Help new players level
2. Show members where to farm chests and items.
3. Sell items to members directly and save money
4. Run trials
5. Fish
6. Buy and Sell crafting services and let other members know if there's a motif out there that is needed
7. Buy and Sell crowns
8. Buy and Sell carries
9. Hell, they can still have raffles, private auctions, and giveaways.

Trading guilds wont fall apart unless they weren't together except for the tedium of raising money for that top trader spot. And coming from several trader guilds, that fund raising and bidding gets old really quick.


Things that did not work fine, economically speaking:
1. Ghost Guilds to secure bids
2. Insane compeition to secure spots in trading capitals
3. Not having a spot at all because your medium guild lost their bid and didn't have enough money to win any backup bids
4. Being a new player and being expected to pay $20,000 a week for the privilege.
5. Trying to sell in zone chat and having 0 people want to pay actual value and having 5 people insta-messaging you to offer half the asking price, or agreeing to asking price and then putting half of that in the trade window.

The economy works great for anyone that wants to already be a part of it already. Opening it up to people that don't want to participate isn't helping anyone.

1. You can currently do that without ruining how guilds function
2. Why? There's add ons for that and if you cant use add on you don't need to be shown how to run around the map.
3. Let me just sit on all my stock until someone finally needs it isnt a great system
4. My social and trading guilds do that while also being able to bid on a trader. They also throw in IC/Cyro runs, guild raffles, auctions, other things.
5. Do you know how many people actually show up to fish?
6. They already do that
7. Yeah, I'm sure tons of people ppl le get into guilds so they can convert their real money to imaginary gold incase people need it
8. Do you know how efficient you have to be sell a carry for a skin? Even then thats 12/500 at most in a guild so it's not going to keep everyone occupied
9. Those exist to help the guild fund buying a trader. If you remove the buying the trader part you lose the incentive to put in all the weekly work the officers and GMs put in that most people think just happens.

1. Not sure if you can do anything about that
2. Also takes more money out of the economy for those giant guilds that get them
3. That sucks but it happens to everyone. Raise more next week like everyone else does, have a 2nd trade guild and use zone for big ticket items
4. Only thing worse than that is being a veteran player that still pedals that lie. Most guilds inform you a head of time and keep guild dues posted and usually have multiple ways of donations (selling quota, donations, or donating). If you still don't want to pay dues theres plenty of active small/med trade guilds that have no requirements at all.
5. Haggling is part of the game but I've yet to encounter anyone that's asked for half value and then put up half of that.

PizzaCat82

A few auction houses, like one in each capital

Addons are the playerbase's way of saying something is broken but here we'll fix it on PC only.

Guilds that don't charge dues but have traders will usually post weekly selling limits, which of course require an Add-on.

I used to sell gold mats in Cragslorn and I'd probably get 3 or 4 people try to lowball me. Nowadays its 100% lowballs. No one sells mats in zone chat unless they're willing to take anything for their stuff. It's insulting.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Add more guild stores per city

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

The economy works fine for most people. But shouldn't it work fine for everyone?

Things trading guilds can do besides raise money for top spots and fight over who gets what spot:

1. Help new players level
2. Show members where to farm chests and items.
3. Sell items to members directly and save money
4. Run trials
5. Fish
6. Buy and Sell crafting services and let other members know if there's a motif out there that is needed
7. Buy and Sell crowns
8. Buy and Sell carries
9. Hell, they can still have raffles, private auctions, and giveaways.

Trading guilds wont fall apart unless they weren't together except for the tedium of raising money for that top trader spot. And coming from several trader guilds, that fund raising and bidding gets old really quick.


Things that did not work fine, economically speaking:
1. Ghost Guilds to secure bids
2. Insane compeition to secure spots in trading capitals
3. Not having a spot at all because your medium guild lost their bid and didn't have enough money to win any backup bids
4. Being a new player and being expected to pay $20,000 a week for the privilege.
5. Trying to sell in zone chat and having 0 people want to pay actual value and having 5 people insta-messaging you to offer half the asking price, or agreeing to asking price and then putting half of that in the trade window.

Let's look at this closer....
Items 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, and 9 are already a normal thing in my 3 guilds that have a guild trader.
My PvP guild runs trials. And my trade guilds don't sell carries BUT we offer dungeon runs for special gear sets.

Next list:
1. ZoS implemented the multi bid system to help stop this practice. At least on PC/NA this is not as frequent as it was.
2. Leader boards and getting emp is insane competition also. For some, the trading game IS the endgame and having a successful trade guild is the goal. Anyone can get a spot in hubs if they want to work for it. My mid level social guild does just fine in one of the DLC cities.
3. This not only happens to medium guilds, but top tier guilds also. If a guild is so limited that it can only make one bid, they need to build up and try again. Bids are returned. Before multi bidding, there was the trader shuffle where you take your returned bid and find a unclaimed one when traders change. (Thats why we were SOOO glad ZoS changed it from early AM). That is another option
4. None of my current guilds mandate a fee, and none I have ever known charge more than 5 or 10k. If you pay 20K, find a new guild.
5. If this is a issue, change cities or zones. Try selling in hub cities. Before trader kiosks were in game this was the norm.

Just my 2 drakes and experiences.
Huzzah!

PizzaCat82

A few auction houses, like one in each capital

I wasn't saying that trading guilds don't do that, I'm saying that there's plenty of things to do for trading guilds besides keep new players from selling their items. Good trading guilds wont collapse. It wont ruin trading guilds.

And yes, ZOS did fix the ghost guild issue. Just like they can fix the guild trader issue. Which, if you just look at how every one of these threads seems to get tons of responses, means that the people with a problem are not a small minority.

You guys will adapt. The game will move on. Things change.

Kagukan

One Auction House to rule them all

I hate using the auction system in this game. I avoid it as much as possible.
In other MMO's I have played I would visit the auction house every day, it became part of the game.

kargen27

Other .. (explain)

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

They cry "Immersion" and "Harder to corner/and game the market" which are true, in the fact that it would take minutes, as opposed to an hour to do it as it is now.

It is far easier to corner the market now since only a few dedicate the time (or addons no on console) to do so.

I think it'd be much harder to corner the market with more people involved in day to day trading. Sure, it'd be easy to buy up all mats for like an hour.

Then people would log on and added more of said mat undercutting the price you just listed at. Plus you'd have to spread those out, as no one wants to buy 200 temps for 2M they'll just ask guildmates or in zone chat.

So the Arguments against it are:
1. It'd ruin trading guilds who have spent tons of hard work on keeping their spots. And we want trading to be hard because its a competition to these people and they deserve to be on top.


2. It'd be easy to corner the market. Even with all the extra people selling. Even with listing fees and limited slots. I submit on things that matter, it wont be. People will always be listing mats. They will always be listing gear. You might get someone flipping motifs or style pages or whatever, but you get that now. They just don't want it to be common. They are allowed to flip. Everyone else is not.

3. The devs already said no and that means it will never happen ever and there's no need to create threads like these because obviously never means never and no amount of complaining or support will ever change that, plus its like written into the company contract for new employees so when they get hired they must "never change the Trading system"

I'm going to ignore the consipiracy theories and people trying to extrapolate from a small forum poll that is probably biased. It's not an argument worth having because anyone can skew the numbers to mean whatever they want.

What they can't skew is that there's a non-zero percentage of the population who think the current system does not work for the silent majority of people. The ones that play a bit, don't know how to use the guild traders, and just leave the game because its not new player friendly.

Those people don't matter, apparently. The strong survive, and the weak move on to other games.

1. These guilds only last as long as the person running it keeps up with it. It also would help smaller guilds to grow if we had one as people are more likely to join ones that have a trader.

2. There is no evidence that it'd be any easier to corner the market except your claims that it would. Hmm talking of conspiracy theories. It's the same old 'people will corner the market' 'it will ruin the economy' but all there is to that is wild claims that it will.

3. Didn't they say no dragons at one point as well? Things change doesn't mean it will stay the same. This game has been changing a lot over the years.

Also as I pointed out earlier poll numbers hardly represent the entire community. Do you think everyone in game is checking the forums?

1) A global AH hinders smaller guilds as they are now in more direct competition with larger guilders. Guild traders help alleviate that.

2) There's tons of evidence based on previous MMOs with those systems and basic logic also dictates it would be easier.

If you need further evidence we can look at the toilet paper hoarding during recent events. Larger more centralized stores were out of stock because people were able to go to a location an buy the entire stock of something for an area and the only way to regulate sales was to force limits on purchasing. Unless you do the same with an AH you're asking for a system that rewards the richer.

3) They did say no dragons but the TES/ESO crew have seem to have run out of creative ideas. Luckily for us the guild aystem isn't broken so it doesn't need "fixing"

Not really. Smaller guilds are less likely to get guild traders with less support to pay for said traders. A global AH would make people join guilds on which they want to join rather than this one has a trader.

2. Not really. It's just your own conspiraries driven by the desire to make it look as a negative due to not wanting it to change

3. Which proves them saying something won't happen at one point doesn't mean it will,.

Yes because that's totally relevant. You do realize this happened in societies where larger businesses have more over the smaller ones and brands and what not? How does the current system limit people purchasing stuff other than what they can pay for? Cause as is as long as I have gold I can buy as much as I want. You're making examples of real situations to try to make an argument which basically ends with no real actual point and only pretending you're making a point on why auction house is bad.

An auction house takes away a reason many guilds exist. That aside the most active guilds I have belonged to more often than not do have a trader even if they are not a trading guild. We have five guild slots. I doubt the vast majority of players consider traders when filling those guild spots. Maybe one or two spots at most.

A central auction house makes it easier to control rare items. Three or four players could corner the market on any rare item they wish as they only have to sit at one location in shifts. The current system there is over 200 traders many that are constantly getting new inventory. Makes it much much harder to control the market on any item.

Introducing dragons was easy compared to overhauling the entire game economy. World bosses existed in the game before dragons. Dragons are a world boss with a different skin and different mechanics. A central trading system does not exist in the game and would take much more time and effort to introduce. That time and effort would be introducing an inferior economy dynamic.

The auction house is bad because common items would drop in price to vendor prices making it hard for new players to make much gold. Rare items would increase in price again making it hard for new and casual players to be able to afford those rare items. That is a double whammy on new and casual players. They can't get a good price for their items they wish to sell and can't get a good price for others items they wish to buy. Simple as that. You don't have to look at the real world to see why an auction house isn't a good idea compared to the system in place. Just visit the forums dedicated to other MMOs and read the complaints about monopolies and other problems found in an auction house setting.

From what I've seen most bigger guilds have a trader and often they either charge members or run raffles to try to pay for them. Take that away and they can focus on other aspects. Besides guilds can exist for other reasons heck there's many active guilds in games that have auction houses.

No a central auction house doesn't let you control rare items I mean no more than now. How does letting anyone put things up for trade do that? If anything it'd decrease the chance of this happening since anyone else could trade the same item.

Umm it's not as big of a change as you try to make it sound. It'd literally just be changing it so everyone can trade items. It's not like that would take much more effort than anything else added to the game.

And the current system is good for new players? Oh wait no you have to find a guild with a trader and hope they keep it. Want to join a trading guild? Have to pay fees. So how is it easy for new players? Answer is it's not.

You are missing the point of the big trade guilds. I've been in a few. For most the members the part of the game they enjoy is the trading. They like flipping items. They like doing content that may drop a rare item. A couple of the trade guilds I was in had regularly scheduled trial runs and all kinds of other stuff going on all the time.

Yes an auction house would allow more control of a rare item that the system we have. With an auction house four people can set up a rotation to sit and watch the auction house. They only have to watch one location. Easy to grab a rare item as soon as it shows. A few may slip though but for the most part they can control that item. With the current system they would need to watch over 200 locations. That is made a bit easier with TTC but TTC isn't always up to date and they would still have to visit each individual trader. I'n not saying it would be easy to control a market in an Auction House. I am saying it could be done much easier than the system in place now. Would take a bit of work but could be done. With the system we have it can't be done.
It is a big change. Huge. Instead of having over 200 locations you have one central location. That changes every aspect of the economy. An auction house doesn't exist at all so it would need to be created from scratch. Much more involved than other changes that have been made in the game.
Yes the current system is good for new players compared to an auction house. The types of items new players put up for sale would be almost worthless with a global auction house. They would have almost no option other than selling to vendors. Most guilds I have been in that had traders had no fees. I was in one of the best trading guilds in the game and their fee was only 10k gold. If you joined a raffle or reached a certain amount of sales there was no fee at all. If you can't come up with 10k gold each week then your not going to benefit much from trading anyway. Join a social guild and list items in the guild trader there. Even if the trader is limited to just your guild mates they can provide a way for new players to sell the items new players often find.
This system could use some adjustment to make it more player friendly but it is leaps and bounds better than the systems that have been in other games I've played.

Beardimus

Keep everything as it is

Eifleber wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

*weary sigh*

*even wearier sigh*

Tell me again the added value of the current system?

Used right it's pretty simple. Most people don't use it right.

As an underdog with zero gold I made my start hunting down stuff that was cheap on out there traders.ade good profit and finally got the trading mini game. Haven't looked back.

AH would make it all bland and dull, and make it easy for the billionaire guilds to manipulate the market.

Most people who are pro AH aren't using traders efficiently or are new to the game..

ZaroktheImmortal

One Auction House to rule them all

kargen27 wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

They cry "Immersion" and "Harder to corner/and game the market" which are true, in the fact that it would take minutes, as opposed to an hour to do it as it is now.

It is far easier to corner the market now since only a few dedicate the time (or addons no on console) to do so.

I think it'd be much harder to corner the market with more people involved in day to day trading. Sure, it'd be easy to buy up all mats for like an hour.

Then people would log on and added more of said mat undercutting the price you just listed at. Plus you'd have to spread those out, as no one wants to buy 200 temps for 2M they'll just ask guildmates or in zone chat.

So the Arguments against it are:
1. It'd ruin trading guilds who have spent tons of hard work on keeping their spots. And we want trading to be hard because its a competition to these people and they deserve to be on top.


2. It'd be easy to corner the market. Even with all the extra people selling. Even with listing fees and limited slots. I submit on things that matter, it wont be. People will always be listing mats. They will always be listing gear. You might get someone flipping motifs or style pages or whatever, but you get that now. They just don't want it to be common. They are allowed to flip. Everyone else is not.

3. The devs already said no and that means it will never happen ever and there's no need to create threads like these because obviously never means never and no amount of complaining or support will ever change that, plus its like written into the company contract for new employees so when they get hired they must "never change the Trading system"

I'm going to ignore the consipiracy theories and people trying to extrapolate from a small forum poll that is probably biased. It's not an argument worth having because anyone can skew the numbers to mean whatever they want.

What they can't skew is that there's a non-zero percentage of the population who think the current system does not work for the silent majority of people. The ones that play a bit, don't know how to use the guild traders, and just leave the game because its not new player friendly.

Those people don't matter, apparently. The strong survive, and the weak move on to other games.

1. These guilds only last as long as the person running it keeps up with it. It also would help smaller guilds to grow if we had one as people are more likely to join ones that have a trader.

2. There is no evidence that it'd be any easier to corner the market except your claims that it would. Hmm talking of conspiracy theories. It's the same old 'people will corner the market' 'it will ruin the economy' but all there is to that is wild claims that it will.

3. Didn't they say no dragons at one point as well? Things change doesn't mean it will stay the same. This game has been changing a lot over the years.

Also as I pointed out earlier poll numbers hardly represent the entire community. Do you think everyone in game is checking the forums?

1) A global AH hinders smaller guilds as they are now in more direct competition with larger guilders. Guild traders help alleviate that.

2) There's tons of evidence based on previous MMOs with those systems and basic logic also dictates it would be easier.

If you need further evidence we can look at the toilet paper hoarding during recent events. Larger more centralized stores were out of stock because people were able to go to a location an buy the entire stock of something for an area and the only way to regulate sales was to force limits on purchasing. Unless you do the same with an AH you're asking for a system that rewards the richer.

3) They did say no dragons but the TES/ESO crew have seem to have run out of creative ideas. Luckily for us the guild aystem isn't broken so it doesn't need "fixing"

Not really. Smaller guilds are less likely to get guild traders with less support to pay for said traders. A global AH would make people join guilds on which they want to join rather than this one has a trader.

2. Not really. It's just your own conspiraries driven by the desire to make it look as a negative due to not wanting it to change

3. Which proves them saying something won't happen at one point doesn't mean it will,.

Yes because that's totally relevant. You do realize this happened in societies where larger businesses have more over the smaller ones and brands and what not? How does the current system limit people purchasing stuff other than what they can pay for? Cause as is as long as I have gold I can buy as much as I want. You're making examples of real situations to try to make an argument which basically ends with no real actual point and only pretending you're making a point on why auction house is bad.

An auction house takes away a reason many guilds exist. That aside the most active guilds I have belonged to more often than not do have a trader even if they are not a trading guild. We have five guild slots. I doubt the vast majority of players consider traders when filling those guild spots. Maybe one or two spots at most.

A central auction house makes it easier to control rare items. Three or four players could corner the market on any rare item they wish as they only have to sit at one location in shifts. The current system there is over 200 traders many that are constantly getting new inventory. Makes it much much harder to control the market on any item.

Introducing dragons was easy compared to overhauling the entire game economy. World bosses existed in the game before dragons. Dragons are a world boss with a different skin and different mechanics. A central trading system does not exist in the game and would take much more time and effort to introduce. That time and effort would be introducing an inferior economy dynamic.

The auction house is bad because common items would drop in price to vendor prices making it hard for new players to make much gold. Rare items would increase in price again making it hard for new and casual players to be able to afford those rare items. That is a double whammy on new and casual players. They can't get a good price for their items they wish to sell and can't get a good price for others items they wish to buy. Simple as that. You don't have to look at the real world to see why an auction house isn't a good idea compared to the system in place. Just visit the forums dedicated to other MMOs and read the complaints about monopolies and other problems found in an auction house setting.

From what I've seen most bigger guilds have a trader and often they either charge members or run raffles to try to pay for them. Take that away and they can focus on other aspects. Besides guilds can exist for other reasons heck there's many active guilds in games that have auction houses.

No a central auction house doesn't let you control rare items I mean no more than now. How does letting anyone put things up for trade do that? If anything it'd decrease the chance of this happening since anyone else could trade the same item.

Umm it's not as big of a change as you try to make it sound. It'd literally just be changing it so everyone can trade items. It's not like that would take much more effort than anything else added to the game.

And the current system is good for new players? Oh wait no you have to find a guild with a trader and hope they keep it. Want to join a trading guild? Have to pay fees. So how is it easy for new players? Answer is it's not.

You are missing the point of the big trade guilds. I've been in a few. For most the members the part of the game they enjoy is the trading. They like flipping items. They like doing content that may drop a rare item. A couple of the trade guilds I was in had regularly scheduled trial runs and all kinds of other stuff going on all the time.

Yes an auction house would allow more control of a rare item that the system we have. With an auction house four people can set up a rotation to sit and watch the auction house. They only have to watch one location. Easy to grab a rare item as soon as it shows. A few may slip though but for the most part they can control that item. With the current system they would need to watch over 200 locations. That is made a bit easier with TTC but TTC isn't always up to date and they would still have to visit each individual trader. I'n not saying it would be easy to control a market in an Auction House. I am saying it could be done much easier than the system in place now. Would take a bit of work but could be done. With the system we have it can't be done.
It is a big change. Huge. Instead of having over 200 locations you have one central location. That changes every aspect of the economy. An auction house doesn't exist at all so it would need to be created from scratch. Much more involved than other changes that have been made in the game.
Yes the current system is good for new players compared to an auction house. The types of items new players put up for sale would be almost worthless with a global auction house. They would have almost no option other than selling to vendors. Most guilds I have been in that had traders had no fees. I was in one of the best trading guilds in the game and their fee was only 10k gold. If you joined a raffle or reached a certain amount of sales there was no fee at all. If you can't come up with 10k gold each week then your not going to benefit much from trading anyway. Join a social guild and list items in the guild trader there. Even if the trader is limited to just your guild mates they can provide a way for new players to sell the items new players often find.
This system could use some adjustment to make it more player friendly but it is leaps and bounds better than the systems that have been in other games I've played.

So your entire argument for guild traders is that people could grab it up and sell it and that selling it at multiple locations makes this harder? Then you could just let everyone trade but to pick specific locations where they trade. And no it wouldn't be a huge change they could just have current traders do the same function except instead of serving specific guilds just working in the function or even using the bank for it.

kargen27

Other .. (explain)

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

They cry "Immersion" and "Harder to corner/and game the market" which are true, in the fact that it would take minutes, as opposed to an hour to do it as it is now.

It is far easier to corner the market now since only a few dedicate the time (or addons no on console) to do so.

I think it'd be much harder to corner the market with more people involved in day to day trading. Sure, it'd be easy to buy up all mats for like an hour.

Then people would log on and added more of said mat undercutting the price you just listed at. Plus you'd have to spread those out, as no one wants to buy 200 temps for 2M they'll just ask guildmates or in zone chat.

So the Arguments against it are:
1. It'd ruin trading guilds who have spent tons of hard work on keeping their spots. And we want trading to be hard because its a competition to these people and they deserve to be on top.


2. It'd be easy to corner the market. Even with all the extra people selling. Even with listing fees and limited slots. I submit on things that matter, it wont be. People will always be listing mats. They will always be listing gear. You might get someone flipping motifs or style pages or whatever, but you get that now. They just don't want it to be common. They are allowed to flip. Everyone else is not.

3. The devs already said no and that means it will never happen ever and there's no need to create threads like these because obviously never means never and no amount of complaining or support will ever change that, plus its like written into the company contract for new employees so when they get hired they must "never change the Trading system"

I'm going to ignore the consipiracy theories and people trying to extrapolate from a small forum poll that is probably biased. It's not an argument worth having because anyone can skew the numbers to mean whatever they want.

What they can't skew is that there's a non-zero percentage of the population who think the current system does not work for the silent majority of people. The ones that play a bit, don't know how to use the guild traders, and just leave the game because its not new player friendly.

Those people don't matter, apparently. The strong survive, and the weak move on to other games.

1. These guilds only last as long as the person running it keeps up with it. It also would help smaller guilds to grow if we had one as people are more likely to join ones that have a trader.

2. There is no evidence that it'd be any easier to corner the market except your claims that it would. Hmm talking of conspiracy theories. It's the same old 'people will corner the market' 'it will ruin the economy' but all there is to that is wild claims that it will.

3. Didn't they say no dragons at one point as well? Things change doesn't mean it will stay the same. This game has been changing a lot over the years.

Also as I pointed out earlier poll numbers hardly represent the entire community. Do you think everyone in game is checking the forums?

1) A global AH hinders smaller guilds as they are now in more direct competition with larger guilders. Guild traders help alleviate that.

2) There's tons of evidence based on previous MMOs with those systems and basic logic also dictates it would be easier.

If you need further evidence we can look at the toilet paper hoarding during recent events. Larger more centralized stores were out of stock because people were able to go to a location an buy the entire stock of something for an area and the only way to regulate sales was to force limits on purchasing. Unless you do the same with an AH you're asking for a system that rewards the richer.

3) They did say no dragons but the TES/ESO crew have seem to have run out of creative ideas. Luckily for us the guild aystem isn't broken so it doesn't need "fixing"

Not really. Smaller guilds are less likely to get guild traders with less support to pay for said traders. A global AH would make people join guilds on which they want to join rather than this one has a trader.

2. Not really. It's just your own conspiraries driven by the desire to make it look as a negative due to not wanting it to change

3. Which proves them saying something won't happen at one point doesn't mean it will,.

Yes because that's totally relevant. You do realize this happened in societies where larger businesses have more over the smaller ones and brands and what not? How does the current system limit people purchasing stuff other than what they can pay for? Cause as is as long as I have gold I can buy as much as I want. You're making examples of real situations to try to make an argument which basically ends with no real actual point and only pretending you're making a point on why auction house is bad.

An auction house takes away a reason many guilds exist. That aside the most active guilds I have belonged to more often than not do have a trader even if they are not a trading guild. We have five guild slots. I doubt the vast majority of players consider traders when filling those guild spots. Maybe one or two spots at most.

A central auction house makes it easier to control rare items. Three or four players could corner the market on any rare item they wish as they only have to sit at one location in shifts. The current system there is over 200 traders many that are constantly getting new inventory. Makes it much much harder to control the market on any item.

Introducing dragons was easy compared to overhauling the entire game economy. World bosses existed in the game before dragons. Dragons are a world boss with a different skin and different mechanics. A central trading system does not exist in the game and would take much more time and effort to introduce. That time and effort would be introducing an inferior economy dynamic.

The auction house is bad because common items would drop in price to vendor prices making it hard for new players to make much gold. Rare items would increase in price again making it hard for new and casual players to be able to afford those rare items. That is a double whammy on new and casual players. They can't get a good price for their items they wish to sell and can't get a good price for others items they wish to buy. Simple as that. You don't have to look at the real world to see why an auction house isn't a good idea compared to the system in place. Just visit the forums dedicated to other MMOs and read the complaints about monopolies and other problems found in an auction house setting.

From what I've seen most bigger guilds have a trader and often they either charge members or run raffles to try to pay for them. Take that away and they can focus on other aspects. Besides guilds can exist for other reasons heck there's many active guilds in games that have auction houses.

No a central auction house doesn't let you control rare items I mean no more than now. How does letting anyone put things up for trade do that? If anything it'd decrease the chance of this happening since anyone else could trade the same item.

Umm it's not as big of a change as you try to make it sound. It'd literally just be changing it so everyone can trade items. It's not like that would take much more effort than anything else added to the game.

And the current system is good for new players? Oh wait no you have to find a guild with a trader and hope they keep it. Want to join a trading guild? Have to pay fees. So how is it easy for new players? Answer is it's not.

You are missing the point of the big trade guilds. I've been in a few. For most the members the part of the game they enjoy is the trading. They like flipping items. They like doing content that may drop a rare item. A couple of the trade guilds I was in had regularly scheduled trial runs and all kinds of other stuff going on all the time.

Yes an auction house would allow more control of a rare item that the system we have. With an auction house four people can set up a rotation to sit and watch the auction house. They only have to watch one location. Easy to grab a rare item as soon as it shows. A few may slip though but for the most part they can control that item. With the current system they would need to watch over 200 locations. That is made a bit easier with TTC but TTC isn't always up to date and they would still have to visit each individual trader. I'n not saying it would be easy to control a market in an Auction House. I am saying it could be done much easier than the system in place now. Would take a bit of work but could be done. With the system we have it can't be done.
It is a big change. Huge. Instead of having over 200 locations you have one central location. That changes every aspect of the economy. An auction house doesn't exist at all so it would need to be created from scratch. Much more involved than other changes that have been made in the game.
Yes the current system is good for new players compared to an auction house. The types of items new players put up for sale would be almost worthless with a global auction house. They would have almost no option other than selling to vendors. Most guilds I have been in that had traders had no fees. I was in one of the best trading guilds in the game and their fee was only 10k gold. If you joined a raffle or reached a certain amount of sales there was no fee at all. If you can't come up with 10k gold each week then your not going to benefit much from trading anyway. Join a social guild and list items in the guild trader there. Even if the trader is limited to just your guild mates they can provide a way for new players to sell the items new players often find.
This system could use some adjustment to make it more player friendly but it is leaps and bounds better than the systems that have been in other games I've played.

So your entire argument for guild traders is that people could grab it up and sell it and that selling it at multiple locations makes this harder? Then you could just let everyone trade but to pick specific locations where they trade. And no it wouldn't be a huge change they could just have current traders do the same function except instead of serving specific guilds just working in the function or even using the bank for it.

No that isn't even the tip of my argument. It is one point of many.

People that are pro auction house want the auction house for the central location. They want to be able to find items easy. I understand that but the problems created are not worth the fix. Your idea does not address what the pro auction house crowd see as the main problem. Seems you want to keep all the traders open meaning finding items is still a process of visiting traders and looking for an item.
Playing the game I see a lot of zone chat from guilds with traders looking for members. They often say no dues and no raffles. Sure they don't have one of the prime locations but they do have a location. Any player can join these guilds so I don't see "but new players are locked out" as a genuine argument. Not having a prime location isn't the hindrance many make it out to be. I can sell plenty of items with the trader one of my social guilds gets. The trader is out of the way but obviously gets good foot traffic. Not the kind of traffic a prime spot gets but enough to keep me making more gold than I need.

barney2525

One Auction House to rule them all

BackStabeth wrote: »

Eifleber wrote: »

When I started playing I was quite surprised that ESO didn't have any centralized buying and selling mechanic. Which I found rather strange since I don't see the added value: ESO has instant travel - unlike EVE where local markets and transport are quite a thing. I just hate to waste hours of my life traveling around to find something that may not even be available on the whole server at all, like rare furniture. Often the guild trader doesn' t even exist in the place TTC mentions.

How would trading be if it were up to you?

It would be far better for us, the players who sell items and play the market. But it wouldn't be good for ESO, and not good for guilds. I belong to three guilds just for trading, I wouldn't if I were not trading.

The other thing is that guilds bid for vendors, they bid a lot of gold for vendors which creates a need for people to play the game to get gold, which allows for group content in part, to be engaged in and for some guilds the purchase of crowns to trade items for in game gold.

An auction house would cripple not only guilds, group play, the requirement to sell crowns for gold to pay for vendor bidding, but ZoS would lose money so it will never happen.

I don't get the ' Auction House will cripple guilds ' viewpoint. That concludes that the ONLY reason guilds exist is to allow selling. And , IMHO, that is nonsense.

No game should cater to select groups of people and deny access to parts of the game to others. There are people who play every day for hours on end, and there are casual players who only player when they get a chance. Every one of these players has One thing in common. They ALL PAID for the game.

Every player should have access to every item that is on sale, from a localized point, and this should Not cost the characters any in-game currency, except whatever small percentage an AH taxes. What good is the trading guild for the Casual player? The Casual finds a couple items during questing or events that they can sell. So they make a few gold... which the Guild will take away from them over the next few weeks.

Lousy system

IMHO

FlopsyPrince

One Auction House to rule them all

Who says that the current system works fine?

Enough people do not complain, but that doesn't mean it is fine. Was crafting "fine" before multi-crafting? Why was it needed if so.

The current system makes it hard to find items and their price.

ZoS decided to release a game on consoles and claiming I can use an addon is idiotic. Complaining that Sony and Microsoft don't allow addons is also that. The game should have what is needed inside it. It does not now. The fact an addon like TTC is a "must have" shows the game is missing a key part.

At least let me find things easier (and their prices), but many of you "its fine now people" are so stuck you want no improvements. How shortsighted is that?

newtinmpls

Other .. (explain)

kargen27 wrote: »

A central auction house makes it easier to control rare items. Three or four players could corner the market on any rare item they wish as they only have to sit at one location in shifts. The current system there is over 200 traders many that are constantly getting new inventory. Makes it much much harder to control the market on any item.

For the people who use TTC addon, you know that when doing a search for the "cheapest" of any given item, often even if the listing is less than 30 min "old" it is often no longer there. Now, with an actual Auction House, multiply that frustration by "a lot", and bump up the prices by a similar amount.

barney2525 wrote: »

Every player should have access to every item that is on sale, from a localized point, and this should Not cost the characters any in-game currency, except whatever small percentage an AH taxes. What good is the trading guild for the Casual player?

In an Auction House, the "casual player" would have even less access as the flippers would swoop in long before the casual player got their peek.

Destai

One Auction House to rule them all

I find the process of dealing with guild dues and all that upkeep takes away from the game. There's all sorts of price information not being conveyed, spammy zone chat (maybe we can get a trade chat, I dunno), and expensive upkeep for the guild system.

Ideal world, one auction house to rule them all. Most MMOs do it and they do it for a reason. However, that ship sailed and we need to improve the system we have. There'd be too much uproar and gold loss if they removed guild traders. So, add some kind of hybrid system.For guild traders, on each item listed add a global search for price. Add a public auction house with some other incentives like a tax but then some sort of kick back - motifs, mats, something.

idk

Keep everything as it is

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

They cry "Immersion" and "Harder to corner/and game the market" which are true, in the fact that it would take minutes, as opposed to an hour to do it as it is now.

It is far easier to corner the market now since only a few dedicate the time (or addons no on console) to do so.

I think it'd be much harder to corner the market with more people involved in day to day trading. Sure, it'd be easy to buy up all mats for like an hour.

Then people would log on and added more of said mat undercutting the price you just listed at. Plus you'd have to spread those out, as no one wants to buy 200 temps for 2M they'll just ask guildmates or in zone chat.

So the Arguments against it are:
1. It'd ruin trading guilds who have spent tons of hard work on keeping their spots. And we want trading to be hard because its a competition to these people and they deserve to be on top.


2. It'd be easy to corner the market. Even with all the extra people selling. Even with listing fees and limited slots. I submit on things that matter, it wont be. People will always be listing mats. They will always be listing gear. You might get someone flipping motifs or style pages or whatever, but you get that now. They just don't want it to be common. They are allowed to flip. Everyone else is not.

3. The devs already said no and that means it will never happen ever and there's no need to create threads like these because obviously never means never and no amount of complaining or support will ever change that, plus its like written into the company contract for new employees so when they get hired they must "never change the Trading system"

I'm going to ignore the consipiracy theories and people trying to extrapolate from a small forum poll that is probably biased. It's not an argument worth having because anyone can skew the numbers to mean whatever they want.

What they can't skew is that there's a non-zero percentage of the population who think the current system does not work for the silent majority of people. The ones that play a bit, don't know how to use the guild traders, and just leave the game because its not new player friendly.

Those people don't matter, apparently. The strong survive, and the weak move on to other games.

1. These guilds only last as long as the person running it keeps up with it. It also would help smaller guilds to grow if we had one as people are more likely to join ones that have a trader.

2. There is no evidence that it'd be any easier to corner the market except your claims that it would. Hmm talking of conspiracy theories. It's the same old 'people will corner the market' 'it will ruin the economy' but all there is to that is wild claims that it will.

3. Didn't they say no dragons at one point as well? Things change doesn't mean it will stay the same. This game has been changing a lot over the years.

Also as I pointed out earlier poll numbers hardly represent the entire community. Do you think everyone in game is checking the forums?

1) A global AH hinders smaller guilds as they are now in more direct competition with larger guilders. Guild traders help alleviate that.

2) There's tons of evidence based on previous MMOs with those systems and basic logic also dictates it would be easier.

If you need further evidence we can look at the toilet paper hoarding during recent events. Larger more centralized stores were out of stock because people were able to go to a location an buy the entire stock of something for an area and the only way to regulate sales was to force limits on purchasing. Unless you do the same with an AH you're asking for a system that rewards the richer.

3) They did say no dragons but the TES/ESO crew have seem to have run out of creative ideas. Luckily for us the guild aystem isn't broken so it doesn't need "fixing"

Not really. Smaller guilds are less likely to get guild traders with less support to pay for said traders. A global AH would make people join guilds on which they want to join rather than this one has a trader.

2. Not really. It's just your own conspiraries driven by the desire to make it look as a negative due to not wanting it to change

3. Which proves them saying something won't happen at one point doesn't mean it will,.

Yes because that's totally relevant. You do realize this happened in societies where larger businesses have more over the smaller ones and brands and what not? How does the current system limit people purchasing stuff other than what they can pay for? Cause as is as long as I have gold I can buy as much as I want. You're making examples of real situations to try to make an argument which basically ends with no real actual point and only pretending you're making a point on why auction house is bad.

An auction house takes away a reason many guilds exist. That aside the most active guilds I have belonged to more often than not do have a trader even if they are not a trading guild. We have five guild slots. I doubt the vast majority of players consider traders when filling those guild spots. Maybe one or two spots at most.

A central auction house makes it easier to control rare items. Three or four players could corner the market on any rare item they wish as they only have to sit at one location in shifts. The current system there is over 200 traders many that are constantly getting new inventory. Makes it much much harder to control the market on any item.

Introducing dragons was easy compared to overhauling the entire game economy. World bosses existed in the game before dragons. Dragons are a world boss with a different skin and different mechanics. A central trading system does not exist in the game and would take much more time and effort to introduce. That time and effort would be introducing an inferior economy dynamic.

The auction house is bad because common items would drop in price to vendor prices making it hard for new players to make much gold. Rare items would increase in price again making it hard for new and casual players to be able to afford those rare items. That is a double whammy on new and casual players. They can't get a good price for their items they wish to sell and can't get a good price for others items they wish to buy. Simple as that. You don't have to look at the real world to see why an auction house isn't a good idea compared to the system in place. Just visit the forums dedicated to other MMOs and read the complaints about monopolies and other problems found in an auction house setting.

From what I've seen most bigger guilds have a trader and often they either charge members or run raffles to try to pay for them. Take that away and they can focus on other aspects. Besides guilds can exist for other reasons heck there's many active guilds in games that have auction houses.

You are ignoring the fact most large trading guilds were built and are actively managed with the focus on being a trade guild so it is ridiculous to suggest they need to find a different purpose.

I do not even know what I am bothering to reply to this. Barely 1/3 of those who have responded want an AH. That means a supermajority wants to keep the guild trader system which is significant given a thread like this is more likely to draw the attention of players who want an AH. The rest of us are fine and pleased with the current system.

Rave the Histborn

Keep everything as it is

barney2525 wrote: »

BackStabeth wrote: »

Eifleber wrote: »

When I started playing I was quite surprised that ESO didn't have any centralized buying and selling mechanic. Which I found rather strange since I don't see the added value: ESO has instant travel - unlike EVE where local markets and transport are quite a thing. I just hate to waste hours of my life traveling around to find something that may not even be available on the whole server at all, like rare furniture. Often the guild trader doesn' t even exist in the place TTC mentions.

How would trading be if it were up to you?

It would be far better for us, the players who sell items and play the market. But it wouldn't be good for ESO, and not good for guilds. I belong to three guilds just for trading, I wouldn't if I were not trading.

The other thing is that guilds bid for vendors, they bid a lot of gold for vendors which creates a need for people to play the game to get gold, which allows for group content in part, to be engaged in and for some guilds the purchase of crowns to trade items for in game gold.

An auction house would cripple not only guilds, group play, the requirement to sell crowns for gold to pay for vendor bidding, but ZoS would lose money so it will never happen.

I don't get the ' Auction House will cripple guilds ' viewpoint. That concludes that the ONLY reason guilds exist is to allow selling. And , IMHO, that is nonsense.

No game should cater to select groups of people and deny access to parts of the game to others. There are people who play every day for hours on end, and there are casual players who only player when they get a chance. Every one of these players has One thing in common. They ALL PAID for the game.

Every player should have access to every item that is on sale, from a localized point, and this should Not cost the characters any in-game currency, except whatever small percentage an AH taxes. What good is the trading guild for the Casual player? The Casual finds a couple items during questing or events that they can sell. So they make a few gold... which the Guild will take away from them over the next few weeks.

Lousy system

IMHO

barney2525 wrote: »

BackStabeth wrote: »

Eifleber wrote: »

When I started playing I was quite surprised that ESO didn't have any centralized buying and selling mechanic. Which I found rather strange since I don't see the added value: ESO has instant travel - unlike EVE where local markets and transport are quite a thing. I just hate to waste hours of my life traveling around to find something that may not even be available on the whole server at all, like rare furniture. Often the guild trader doesn' t even exist in the place TTC mentions.

How would trading be if it were up to you?

It would be far better for us, the players who sell items and play the market. But it wouldn't be good for ESO, and not good for guilds. I belong to three guilds just for trading, I wouldn't if I were not trading.

The other thing is that guilds bid for vendors, they bid a lot of gold for vendors which creates a need for people to play the game to get gold, which allows for group content in part, to be engaged in and for some guilds the purchase of crowns to trade items for in game gold.

An auction house would cripple not only guilds, group play, the requirement to sell crowns for gold to pay for vendor bidding, but ZoS would lose money so it will never happen.

I don't get the ' Auction House will cripple guilds ' viewpoint. That concludes that the ONLY reason guilds exist is to allow selling. And , IMHO, that is nonsense.

No game should cater to select groups of people and deny access to parts of the game to others. There are people who play every day for hours on end, and there are casual players who only player when they get a chance. Every one of these players has One thing in common. They ALL PAID for the game.

Every player should have access to every item that is on sale, from a localized point, and this should Not cost the characters any in-game currency, except whatever small percentage an AH taxes. What good is the trading guild for the Casual player? The Casual finds a couple items during questing or events that they can sell. So they make a few gold... which the Guild will take away from them over the next few weeks.

Lousy system

IMHO

The guild system WOULD be crippled as the way ZOS designed the system was around having guild traders function like this. How many guilds would disband because their trade guild no longer has a function? That's tens of thousands of players.

That is literally every game, especially MMOs, ever. Paying for the game is paying to play the gamw as it is, it doesn't entitle you to change systems you don't like. They also paid for vet trials and arenas too, should they be entitled to just waltz through and pick up gear? They paid for it after all

Every player does have access already, they can take the 2sec to join a guild or use zone chat to sell things. Most trade guilds don't charge any dues so this "costs so much to join a guild" is a flat out lie. The traders that charge you weekly like that have the top vendor spots and you get what you pay for. If you're that casual then there's always zone chat, I'm in 2 trade guilds and I still use it.

Why should the AH tax be small? The small portion of people generating the revenue for the guild stores pays to get it every week so an AH should naturally have a similar tax to it. It'd probably have to be 30-40% to help remove the gold from the world economy to stop inflation.

System works great as intended

idk

Keep everything as it is

Destai wrote: »

I find the process of dealing with guild dues and all that upkeep takes away from the game.

Simply join a trade guild that does not charge dues. I am in a good trade guild that has never charged me any dues, ever.

FlopsyPrince

One Auction House to rule them all

idk wrote: »

I do not even know what I am bothering to reply to this. Barely 1/3 of those who have responded want an AH. That means a supermajority wants to keep the guild trader system which is significant given a thread like this is more likely to draw the attention of players who want an AH. The rest of us are fine and pleased with the current system.

And this is a small tiny subset of those who play the game and proves nothing, even if the results were reversed.

newtinmpls wrote: »

In an Auction House, the "casual player" would have even less access as the flippers would swoop in long before the casual player got their peek.

This is simply not true. I suspect you have never played with a global AH or haven't done so in such a long time you forgot.

Some deals would be lost, but so what? Knowing where something is and a "fair" price for it would go a long way towards fixing the current system even without a global AH. But having one would not cause the problems to claim unless you think the other games that use it just fine somehow dodged that bullet.

No one has addressed the difficulty of finding something and/or a fair price on consoles. The current system sucks for that. ZoS decided to offer ESO as a console game, so the blame for this lies on them.

idk

Keep everything as it is

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I do not even know what I am bothering to reply to this. Barely 1/3 of those who have responded want an AH. That means a supermajority wants to keep the guild trader system which is significant given a thread like this is more likely to draw the attention of players who want an AH. The rest of us are fine and pleased with the current system.

And this is a small tiny subset of those who play the game and proves nothing, even if the results were reversed.

True it is a subset of the game. However, people tend to be more vocal against something than for something. So be dismissive all you like but that poll does speak loudly.

Have a good day.

PizzaCat82

A few auction houses, like one in each capital

The fact that this thread exists speaks loudly.

People don't make threads when everything is ok.

Rave the Histborn

Keep everything as it is

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I do not even know what I am bothering to reply to this. Barely 1/3 of those who have responded want an AH. That means a supermajority wants to keep the guild trader system which is significant given a thread like this is more likely to draw the attention of players who want an AH. The rest of us are fine and pleased with the current system.

And this is a small tiny subset of those who play the game and proves nothing, even if the results were reversed.

newtinmpls wrote: »

In an Auction House, the "casual player" would have even less access as the flippers would swoop in long before the casual player got their peek.

This is simply not true. I suspect you have never played with a global AH or haven't done so in such a long time you forgot.

Some deals would be lost, but so what? Knowing where something is and a "fair" price for it would go a long way towards fixing the current system even without a global AH. But having one would not cause the problems to claim unless you think the other games that use it just fine somehow dodged that bullet.

No one has addressed the difficulty of finding something and/or a fair price on consoles. The current system sucks for that. ZoS decided to offer ESO as a console game, so the blame for this lies on them.

The results does prove that people would prefer the guild trader system even if it is a small subset of players.

It also is a truth of having a global AH, I know because I've done it.

Knowing where something is doesn't guarantee it'll be there more often and if you're concerned about a "fair" (you used quotations for a reason, because such a thing doesn't actually exist) then you're going to find them more often on the guild store system vs the AH system. The other systems didn't dodge a bullet, they just have no other way to play than to live with it.

Iluvrien

Keep everything as it is

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

The fact that this thread exists speaks loudly.

People don't make threads when everything is ok.

For two years I worked, running numbers, for a market research agency in my country’s capital.

People can, will, and do complain even when everything is fine. Sometimes they complain because it is fine and they are angry about not having something to complain about.

FlopsyPrince

One Auction House to rule them all

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I do not even know what I am bothering to reply to this. Barely 1/3 of those who have responded want an AH. That means a supermajority wants to keep the guild trader system which is significant given a thread like this is more likely to draw the attention of players who want an AH. The rest of us are fine and pleased with the current system.

And this is a small tiny subset of those who play the game and proves nothing, even if the results were reversed.

newtinmpls wrote: »

In an Auction House, the "casual player" would have even less access as the flippers would swoop in long before the casual player got their peek.

This is simply not true. I suspect you have never played with a global AH or haven't done so in such a long time you forgot.

Some deals would be lost, but so what? Knowing where something is and a "fair" price for it would go a long way towards fixing the current system even without a global AH. But having one would not cause the problems to claim unless you think the other games that use it just fine somehow dodged that bullet.

No one has addressed the difficulty of finding something and/or a fair price on consoles. The current system sucks for that. ZoS decided to offer ESO as a console game, so the blame for this lies on them.

The results does prove that people would prefer the guild trader system even if it is a small subset of players.

It also is a truth of having a global AH, I know because I've done it.

Knowing where something is doesn't guarantee it'll be there more often and if you're concerned about a "fair" (you used quotations for a reason, because such a thing doesn't actually exist) then you're going to find them more often on the guild store system vs the AH system. The other systems didn't dodge a bullet, they just have no other way to play than to live with it.

Huh?

How do I find the motif I am looking for? Much easier to find if one is for sale with a single AH rather than scattered traders.

Maybe you like to travel from trader to trader to look, but I am fairly certain the majority of players do not find that compelling gameplay.

idk

Keep everything as it is

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I do not even know what I am bothering to reply to this. Barely 1/3 of those who have responded want an AH. That means a supermajority wants to keep the guild trader system which is significant given a thread like this is more likely to draw the attention of players who want an AH. The rest of us are fine and pleased with the current system.

And this is a small tiny subset of those who play the game and proves nothing, even if the results were reversed.

newtinmpls wrote: »

In an Auction House, the "casual player" would have even less access as the flippers would swoop in long before the casual player got their peek.

This is simply not true. I suspect you have never played with a global AH or haven't done so in such a long time you forgot.

Some deals would be lost, but so what? Knowing where something is and a "fair" price for it would go a long way towards fixing the current system even without a global AH. But having one would not cause the problems to claim unless you think the other games that use it just fine somehow dodged that bullet.

No one has addressed the difficulty of finding something and/or a fair price on consoles. The current system sucks for that. ZoS decided to offer ESO as a console game, so the blame for this lies on them.

The results does prove that people would prefer the guild trader system even if it is a small subset of players.

It also is a truth of having a global AH, I know because I've done it.

Knowing where something is doesn't guarantee it'll be there more often and if you're concerned about a "fair" (you used quotations for a reason, because such a thing doesn't actually exist) then you're going to find them more often on the guild store system vs the AH system. The other systems didn't dodge a bullet, they just have no other way to play than to live with it.

Maybe you like to travel from trader to trader to look, but I am fairly certain the majority of players do not find that compelling gameplay.

You keep suggesting that a majority of players are interested in an AH or do not like the current trading system.

The poll is the only indicator we have and it soundly says otherwise. Granted, you are permitted to have your opinion but that does not make it a reality.

PizzaCat82

A few auction houses, like one in each capital

Sticking your head in the sand and say that everything is fine is exactly whats wrong with the game right now.

The only options are that the current system works for you or it doesnt.

The AH works for you or it doesn't.

You could get all the trader guild members to post in here saying its fine, but the reality of the situation is that they aren't the ones in charge of the system and they're not the ones getting screwed by it.

Tandor

One Auction House to rule them all

idk wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

They cry "Immersion" and "Harder to corner/and game the market" which are true, in the fact that it would take minutes, as opposed to an hour to do it as it is now.

It is far easier to corner the market now since only a few dedicate the time (or addons no on console) to do so.

I think it'd be much harder to corner the market with more people involved in day to day trading. Sure, it'd be easy to buy up all mats for like an hour.

Then people would log on and added more of said mat undercutting the price you just listed at. Plus you'd have to spread those out, as no one wants to buy 200 temps for 2M they'll just ask guildmates or in zone chat.

So the Arguments against it are:
1. It'd ruin trading guilds who have spent tons of hard work on keeping their spots. And we want trading to be hard because its a competition to these people and they deserve to be on top.


2. It'd be easy to corner the market. Even with all the extra people selling. Even with listing fees and limited slots. I submit on things that matter, it wont be. People will always be listing mats. They will always be listing gear. You might get someone flipping motifs or style pages or whatever, but you get that now. They just don't want it to be common. They are allowed to flip. Everyone else is not.

3. The devs already said no and that means it will never happen ever and there's no need to create threads like these because obviously never means never and no amount of complaining or support will ever change that, plus its like written into the company contract for new employees so when they get hired they must "never change the Trading system"

I'm going to ignore the consipiracy theories and people trying to extrapolate from a small forum poll that is probably biased. It's not an argument worth having because anyone can skew the numbers to mean whatever they want.

What they can't skew is that there's a non-zero percentage of the population who think the current system does not work for the silent majority of people. The ones that play a bit, don't know how to use the guild traders, and just leave the game because its not new player friendly.

Those people don't matter, apparently. The strong survive, and the weak move on to other games.

1. These guilds only last as long as the person running it keeps up with it. It also would help smaller guilds to grow if we had one as people are more likely to join ones that have a trader.

2. There is no evidence that it'd be any easier to corner the market except your claims that it would. Hmm talking of conspiracy theories. It's the same old 'people will corner the market' 'it will ruin the economy' but all there is to that is wild claims that it will.

3. Didn't they say no dragons at one point as well? Things change doesn't mean it will stay the same. This game has been changing a lot over the years.

Also as I pointed out earlier poll numbers hardly represent the entire community. Do you think everyone in game is checking the forums?

1) A global AH hinders smaller guilds as they are now in more direct competition with larger guilders. Guild traders help alleviate that.

2) There's tons of evidence based on previous MMOs with those systems and basic logic also dictates it would be easier.

If you need further evidence we can look at the toilet paper hoarding during recent events. Larger more centralized stores were out of stock because people were able to go to a location an buy the entire stock of something for an area and the only way to regulate sales was to force limits on purchasing. Unless you do the same with an AH you're asking for a system that rewards the richer.

3) They did say no dragons but the TES/ESO crew have seem to have run out of creative ideas. Luckily for us the guild aystem isn't broken so it doesn't need "fixing"

Not really. Smaller guilds are less likely to get guild traders with less support to pay for said traders. A global AH would make people join guilds on which they want to join rather than this one has a trader.

2. Not really. It's just your own conspiraries driven by the desire to make it look as a negative due to not wanting it to change

3. Which proves them saying something won't happen at one point doesn't mean it will,.

Yes because that's totally relevant. You do realize this happened in societies where larger businesses have more over the smaller ones and brands and what not? How does the current system limit people purchasing stuff other than what they can pay for? Cause as is as long as I have gold I can buy as much as I want. You're making examples of real situations to try to make an argument which basically ends with no real actual point and only pretending you're making a point on why auction house is bad.

An auction house takes away a reason many guilds exist. That aside the most active guilds I have belonged to more often than not do have a trader even if they are not a trading guild. We have five guild slots. I doubt the vast majority of players consider traders when filling those guild spots. Maybe one or two spots at most.

A central auction house makes it easier to control rare items. Three or four players could corner the market on any rare item they wish as they only have to sit at one location in shifts. The current system there is over 200 traders many that are constantly getting new inventory. Makes it much much harder to control the market on any item.

Introducing dragons was easy compared to overhauling the entire game economy. World bosses existed in the game before dragons. Dragons are a world boss with a different skin and different mechanics. A central trading system does not exist in the game and would take much more time and effort to introduce. That time and effort would be introducing an inferior economy dynamic.

The auction house is bad because common items would drop in price to vendor prices making it hard for new players to make much gold. Rare items would increase in price again making it hard for new and casual players to be able to afford those rare items. That is a double whammy on new and casual players. They can't get a good price for their items they wish to sell and can't get a good price for others items they wish to buy. Simple as that. You don't have to look at the real world to see why an auction house isn't a good idea compared to the system in place. Just visit the forums dedicated to other MMOs and read the complaints about monopolies and other problems found in an auction house setting.

From what I've seen most bigger guilds have a trader and often they either charge members or run raffles to try to pay for them. Take that away and they can focus on other aspects. Besides guilds can exist for other reasons heck there's many active guilds in games that have auction houses.

You are ignoring the fact most large trading guilds were built and are actively managed with the focus on being a trade guild so it is ridiculous to suggest they need to find a different purpose.

I do not even know what I am bothering to reply to this. Barely 1/3 of those who have responded want an AH. That means a supermajority wants to keep the guild trader system which is significant given a thread like this is more likely to draw the attention of players who want an AH. The rest of us are fine and pleased with the current system.

My experience is the exact opposite, most who want an auction house realise it isn't going to happen so take little interest in such threads. They mainly attract those determined to make sure it sure it doesn't happen. They're defending their corner, and they're defending their bank balance, which in its own way is fair enough. After all, it's only those who benefit from the present trading system as endgame sellers who can afford to participate in it as endgame buyers!

Percentages don't really matter that much. Different polls have given different percentages over the years. What really matters more is that the topic keeps coming up and that when it does there is always a respectable vote for and against a change to the present system, whether that change involves an auction house or simply an improvement to the present system. There is a very significant proportion of the playerbase that isn't entirely happy with the present system, and that has been true year on year.

At the very least, therefore, ZOS ought to recognise that and look at ways of improving it without necessarily going the whole hog and changing it. How about committing to that once the performance issues are sorted @ZOS_MattFiror ?