Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »ITT Small Scale PvPer trying to convince the forum goers that AoE caps ruined PvP.
The mass exodus of the tens of thousands of pvpers happened within a couple months of release, before the performance degradation began, and the reason they left were due to AoE caps resulting in ball zergs everywhere. That part really isnt up for debate.
You have sources for how many PvPers left? I bet you dont. So yeah, its definitely debatable.
Why do MMORPG heroes go on about "skilled groups" in a low skilled, uncompetitive game mode / genre, is it just to give me a laugh?
Kalik_Gold wrote: »What PvP game did these mass exodus PvP MMO players go to?
Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »ITT Small Scale PvPer trying to convince the forum goers that AoE caps ruined PvP.
The mass exodus of the tens of thousands of pvpers happened within a couple months of release, before the performance degradation began, and the reason they left were due to AoE caps resulting in ball zergs everywhere. That part really isnt up for debate.
You have sources for how many PvPers left? I bet you dont. So yeah, its definitely debatable.
A absolutely massive amount. Servers completely emptied out over the course of a patch. This is back when there were many filled PVP servers.
Here is a source directly related. What I don't understand is how you can be so obstinate over this claim. "I bet you dont." Why are you betting against it? You really dont believe people didn't want to play in an environment where they couldnt hit more than 6 people at a time while they are being overrun by 30+? Drop an AOE stun and it hits 6 as 24 run right past you. Yea, that makes a lot of sense.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/88049/do-you-think-there-should-be-an-aoe-cap/p1
Why do MMORPG heroes go on about "skilled groups" in a low skilled, uncompetitive game mode / genre, is it just to give me a laugh?
Hmm.
Skilled? Probably not.
Legit? Sure.
In fact, I'd contend that large group play was the intended style of PvP - at least according to both their promotion, and early hype.
Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »ITT Small Scale PvPer trying to convince the forum goers that AoE caps ruined PvP.
The mass exodus of the tens of thousands of pvpers happened within a couple months of release, before the performance degradation began, and the reason they left were due to AoE caps resulting in ball zergs everywhere. That part really isnt up for debate.
You have sources for how many PvPers left? I bet you dont. So yeah, its definitely debatable.
A absolutely massive amount. Servers completely emptied out over the course of a patch. This is back when there were many filled PVP servers.
Here is a source directly related. What I don't understand is how you can be so obstinate over this claim. "I bet you dont." Why are you betting against it? You really dont believe people didn't want to play in an environment where they couldnt hit more than 6 people at a time while they are being overrun by 30+? Drop an AOE stun and it hits 6 as 24 run right past you. Yea, that makes a lot of sense.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/88049/do-you-think-there-should-be-an-aoe-cap/p1
Why do MMORPG heroes go on about "skilled groups" in a low skilled, uncompetitive game mode / genre, is it just to give me a laugh?
No offense, but in my experience playing only competitive games over the last 23 years, the only people who make such claims, that whatever pvp game they are playing is “low skilled” and “uncompetitive,” usually do so as an attempt to feel better about being unable to compete in that environment relative to those at the top of the scoreboard.
Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »ITT Small Scale PvPer trying to convince the forum goers that AoE caps ruined PvP.
The mass exodus of the tens of thousands of pvpers happened within a couple months of release, before the performance degradation began, and the reason they left were due to AoE caps resulting in ball zergs everywhere. That part really isnt up for debate.
You have sources for how many PvPers left? I bet you dont. So yeah, its definitely debatable.
A absolutely massive amount. Servers completely emptied out over the course of a patch. This is back when there were many filled PVP servers.
Here is a source directly related. What I don't understand is how you can be so obstinate over this claim. "I bet you dont." Why are you betting against it? You really dont believe people didn't want to play in an environment where they couldnt hit more than 6 people at a time while they are being overrun by 30+? Drop an AOE stun and it hits 6 as 24 run right past you. Yea, that makes a lot of sense.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/88049/do-you-think-there-should-be-an-aoe-cap/p1
Servers always clear out after a game launches and players realize its not going to be what they wanted. Thats not news in the MMO genre. Trying to paint that exodus as if AoE caps was the sole reason or the deciding factor in why those players left is being misleading and typical of yourself and those that continue to bring up AoE caps. Youre a pretty well known 1vXer that has gone on plenty of rants about how you cant AoE down hoardes of players in the past. This isnt about making the game better and reviving PvP. Its always has and always will be about you wanting to be all powerful in an online environment. You could care less about fairplay or balance. So excuse me if I shrug off the opinions of someone that has a monetary interest in all of this.
the zergball playstyle that they had convinced themselves was legit and skilled pvp.
What are you talking about?
To be clear, I was referring to this statement of yours:the zergball playstyle that they had convinced themselves was legit and skilled pvp.
So again:
Is zerging "skilled" gameplay? Probably not.
Is it legit? Sure it is. It was even intended.
I have trouble understanding how your reply is an answer to my post, in any meaningful way.
Are we talking different languages? Does "legit" mean something else to you than to other people?but cannot admit that beating a zerg with a small group is therefore logically more skilled gameplay than zerging
Oh and what are these "competitive" games you have been playing for 20+ years, please don't tell me it is MMORPGs...
Are we talking different languages? Does "legit" mean something else to you than to other people?but cannot admit that beating a zerg with a small group is therefore logically more skilled gameplay than zerging
"Legit": it's a play style that is intended and catered for by the creator; i.e. legitimate. Players are free to engage in that style of play, and it's encouraged or tolerated (as one among others) by the game designers.
So I'm stumped - where did I ever insinuate anything like you wrote in that quote?
'Competitive' pvp'ers - "Hey, let's put together a small group consisting of elite players and use voice comms so we can destroy groups of 20-30 average players"
Average pvp-ers - "It's no fun losing to these guys every time, lets combine forces so we stand a chance"
'Competitive' pvp'ers - "Wtf, why are you guys zerging?"
I can't really blame them, its natural to want to put together a winning group, but it ruins the small-scale type game for average players. Railing against people who have to zerg to have a chance is just silly.
stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »You have sources for how many PvPers left? I bet you dont. So yeah, its definitely debatable.
I would consider first hand experience to be a valid source, even though it's notoriously hard to verify.
Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »ITT Small Scale PvPer trying to convince the forum goers that AoE caps ruined PvP.
The mass exodus of the tens of thousands of pvpers happened within a couple months of release, before the performance degradation began, and the reason they left were due to AoE caps resulting in ball zergs everywhere. That part really isnt up for debate.
You have sources for how many PvPers left? I bet you dont. So yeah, its definitely debatable.
A absolutely massive amount. Servers completely emptied out over the course of a patch. This is back when there were many filled PVP servers.
Here is a source directly related. What I don't understand is how you can be so obstinate over this claim. "I bet you dont." Why are you betting against it? You really dont believe people didn't want to play in an environment where they couldnt hit more than 6 people at a time while they are being overrun by 30+? Drop an AOE stun and it hits 6 as 24 run right past you. Yea, that makes a lot of sense.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/88049/do-you-think-there-should-be-an-aoe-cap/p1
Servers always clear out after a game launches and players realize its not going to be what they wanted. Thats not news in the MMO genre. Trying to paint that exodus as if AoE caps was the sole reason or the deciding factor in why those players left is being misleading and typical of yourself and those that continue to bring up AoE caps. Youre a pretty well known 1vXer that has gone on plenty of rants about how you cant AoE down hoardes of players in the past. This isnt about making the game better and reviving PvP. Its always has and always will be about you wanting to be all powerful in an online environment. You could care less about fairplay or balance. So excuse me if I shrug off the opinions of someone that has a monetary interest in all of this.
I dont have monetary interest in this, and Fengrush is 100% correct.
Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »ITT Small Scale PvPer trying to convince the forum goers that AoE caps ruined PvP.
The mass exodus of the tens of thousands of pvpers happened within a couple months of release, before the performance degradation began, and the reason they left were due to AoE caps resulting in ball zergs everywhere. That part really isnt up for debate.
You have sources for how many PvPers left? I bet you dont. So yeah, its definitely debatable.
A absolutely massive amount. Servers completely emptied out over the course of a patch. This is back when there were many filled PVP servers.
Here is a source directly related. What I don't understand is how you can be so obstinate over this claim. "I bet you dont." Why are you betting against it? You really dont believe people didn't want to play in an environment where they couldnt hit more than 6 people at a time while they are being overrun by 30+? Drop an AOE stun and it hits 6 as 24 run right past you. Yea, that makes a lot of sense.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/88049/do-you-think-there-should-be-an-aoe-cap/p1
Servers always clear out after a game launches and players realize its not going to be what they wanted. Thats not news in the MMO genre. Trying to paint that exodus as if AoE caps was the sole reason or the deciding factor in why those players left is being misleading and typical of yourself and those that continue to bring up AoE caps. Youre a pretty well known 1vXer that has gone on plenty of rants about how you cant AoE down hoardes of players in the past. This isnt about making the game better and reviving PvP. Its always has and always will be about you wanting to be all powerful in an online environment. You could care less about fairplay or balance. So excuse me if I shrug off the opinions of someone that has a monetary interest in all of this.
I dont have monetary interest in this, and Fengrush is 100% correct.
I guess that settles it. Wait, it really doesnt. We have AoE caps in this game, thats not changing. So keep wailing about how you cant 1v30/50/100 players. Im certain the Developers are going to reverse course on that topic 6 years into the games development.
What are you talking about?
To be clear, I was referring to this statement of yours:the zergball playstyle that they had convinced themselves was legit and skilled pvp.
So again:
Is zerging "skilled" gameplay? Probably not.
Is it legit? Sure it is. It was even intended.
I have trouble understanding how your reply is an answer to my post, in any meaningful way.
Dusk_Coven wrote: »What are you talking about?
To be clear, I was referring to this statement of yours:the zergball playstyle that they had convinced themselves was legit and skilled pvp.
So again:
Is zerging "skilled" gameplay? Probably not.
Is it legit? Sure it is. It was even intended.
I have trouble understanding how your reply is an answer to my post, in any meaningful way.
Cyrodiil is meant for large scale so why not a zerg? Basic PvP advice for newbs is "stay together" -- so that's what they're doing?
It's like the group-finder for Cyrodiil when you don't want to organize your own team. And if it didn't work some of the time people wouldn't bother. It's not the best, but neither is a pug of randos for a vet trial and I think people who zerg know that.
The combination of Vicious Death and Magika Detonation (as well as other misc abilities), wielded by a small group of skilled players can bring down a blob zerg of any size. It is unfortunately rare to see nowadays now that very few skilled groups are left, which is not an insult to current groups, but nevertheless accurate.
I would link some videos of my smallman wiping zergs, but in the past they were deemed "naming and shaming" and I dont want to derail the thread.
BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »
The combination of Vicious Death and Magika Detonation (as well as other misc abilities), wielded by a small group of skilled players can bring down a blob zerg of any size. It is unfortunately rare to see nowadays now that very few skilled groups are left, which is not an insult to current groups, but nevertheless accurate.
I would link some videos of my smallman wiping zergs, but in the past they were deemed "naming and shaming" and I dont want to derail the thread.
I suspect your overall analysis is somewhat suspect, but cannot point by point dispute nor see the validity of its points.
But I can say this:
- Vicious Death and Magicka Det are 100% total cheese and about as far from skilled play as one can get.
- They were adhoc solutions that have resulted in more problems then they addressed and are no longer required as things have moved on. Frankly, they could and probably should be removed.
[
Both VD and Magika Det literally only work on zergballs. Furthermore, zergballs are the only people I have ever seen be upset by these. If you have any reason for wanting them removed, other than because they wiped your zergball, I would love to hear it.