Maintenance for the week of June 17:
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – June 17, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – June 17, 10:00PM EDT (June 18, 2:00 UTC) - June 18, 5:00AM EDT (9:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – June 17, 10:00PM EDT (June 18, 2:00 UTC) - June 18, 5:00AM EDT (9:00 UTC)

The true history of Cyrodiil's server problems and hope for the future.

  • Kalik_Gold
    Kalik_Gold
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    What PvP game did these mass exodus PvP MMO players go to?
    Main: (PvP & PvE)
    Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige

    PvP:
    Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
    Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
    Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
    Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
    Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer

    PvP: (Specialty)
    Tyrus Septim an Imperial Lycan Sorcerer
    Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade
    Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer
    Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden

    PvE:
    Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight
    Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Imperial Dragonknight
    Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar
    Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden
    Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade

    Leveling...
    Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Sorcerer
    Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
    Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer
    ======
    Passives of another race used. (RP)
    *Breton
    **Imperial




    __________________________Backstories:_________________________

    Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.

    Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.

    Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...

    Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.

    Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.

    The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.

    The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.

    Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.

    Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)

    And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.

    After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.

    After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...

    Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.

    Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.

    {time moves forward through the hour-glass}
    PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant • 1550+ Champion

    Options
  • Universe
    Universe
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    PVP & PVE performances are poor...
    ZOS needs to fix the issues. Period.

    [Edit to remove bait]
    Edited by [Deleted User] on March 30, 2020 10:22PM
    Some videos I recorded for fun: Main character:
    PC EU main: Universe - AD magicka Sorcerer, Former Emperor, Grand Overlord, The Merciless, Trial Bosses Solo Champion
    Top alts: Genius(stamina/sagicka Dragonknight) The Force(stamina Nightblade) and other chars.
    PC NA main: The Magic - AD magicka Sorcerer
    Started playing ESO in beta & early access
    User_ID: Daedric_Prince
    Options
  • FENGRUSH
    FENGRUSH
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Lowbei wrote: »
    ITT Small Scale PvPer trying to convince the forum goers that AoE caps ruined PvP.

    The mass exodus of the tens of thousands of pvpers happened within a couple months of release, before the performance degradation began, and the reason they left were due to AoE caps resulting in ball zergs everywhere. That part really isnt up for debate.

    You have sources for how many PvPers left? I bet you dont. So yeah, its definitely debatable.

    A absolutely massive amount. Servers completely emptied out over the course of a patch. This is back when there were many filled PVP servers.

    Here is a source directly related. What I don't understand is how you can be so obstinate over this claim. "I bet you dont." Why are you betting against it? You really dont believe people didn't want to play in an environment where they couldnt hit more than 6 people at a time while they are being overrun by 30+? Drop an AOE stun and it hits 6 as 24 run right past you. Yea, that makes a lot of sense.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/88049/do-you-think-there-should-be-an-aoe-cap/p1
    Options
  • precambria
    precambria
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Logged in today, there was patch, skills take 5 inputs in base camp in Cyrodil, not even going to queue for battlegrounds. I think it's fair to say this is actually just what the implementation of the new combat system looks like for PVP, I'm over it this is the most expensive game I have ever played and I was even in the closed beta, now I have content for a game which cannot be played, this has become hands down the worst experience with any digital or online content I have ever had as somebody who has been gaming online since starcraft and dialup that is saying a lot.
    Options
  • WilliamESO
    WilliamESO
    ✭✭✭
    Skilled players dies when I am on no zerg farming anymore
    Options
  • Sylosi
    Sylosi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why do MMORPG heroes go on about "skilled groups" in a low skilled, uncompetitive game mode / genre, is it just to give me a laugh?
    Edited by Sylosi on March 30, 2020 5:07PM
    Options
  • ItsMeToo
    ItsMeToo
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sylosi wrote: »
    Why do MMORPG heroes go on about "skilled groups" in a low skilled, uncompetitive game mode / genre, is it just to give me a laugh?

    yes
    FYI - There is no such thing as 'night capping' in a world wide MMO.
    FYI - There was no paid Beta. When they launched the game the Beta was over, even if you don't think it was.
    FYI - It's B2P not F2P. There is a difference.
    FYI - It doesn't take any player skill to mash keys or buttons in this game. The ones that stay alive longer have the better internet connection and speed.
    FYI - The game is not broken, it still works. It just has 'bugs' that need to be fixed.
    Balance is a "Bad" thing.

    Example: There were hundreds of Jedi and only two Sith in Star Wars. The Jedi wanted, "Balance in the Force" and they got it. Now there are only two Jedi and two Sith.

    Balance is a "Bad" thing.
    Is the glass half full or half empty?
    I say, "Get a smaller glass."
    Options
  • Lowbei
    Lowbei
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Kalik_Gold wrote: »
    What PvP game did these mass exodus PvP MMO players go to?

    None. They would rather play none, than Cyrodiil.
    Options
  • Lowbei
    Lowbei
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    FENGRUSH wrote: »
    Lowbei wrote: »
    ITT Small Scale PvPer trying to convince the forum goers that AoE caps ruined PvP.

    The mass exodus of the tens of thousands of pvpers happened within a couple months of release, before the performance degradation began, and the reason they left were due to AoE caps resulting in ball zergs everywhere. That part really isnt up for debate.

    You have sources for how many PvPers left? I bet you dont. So yeah, its definitely debatable.

    A absolutely massive amount. Servers completely emptied out over the course of a patch. This is back when there were many filled PVP servers.

    Here is a source directly related. What I don't understand is how you can be so obstinate over this claim. "I bet you dont." Why are you betting against it? You really dont believe people didn't want to play in an environment where they couldnt hit more than 6 people at a time while they are being overrun by 30+? Drop an AOE stun and it hits 6 as 24 run right past you. Yea, that makes a lot of sense.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/88049/do-you-think-there-should-be-an-aoe-cap/p1

    Absolutely correct.

    I honestly cannot believe how many people I have seen in this thread attempting to disregard AoE caps as no big deal and not the cause of the exact same exodus that emptied out both warhammer and gw2s playerbase. It shows both a lack of awareness and a willful blindness that I can only attribute to an intention to defend the zergball playstyle that they had convinced themselves was legit and skilled pvp.
    Edited by Lowbei on March 30, 2020 5:22PM
    Options
  • Lowbei
    Lowbei
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sylosi wrote: »
    Why do MMORPG heroes go on about "skilled groups" in a low skilled, uncompetitive game mode / genre, is it just to give me a laugh?

    No offense, but in my experience playing only competitive games over the last 23 years, the only people who make such claims, that whatever pvp game they are playing is “low skilled” and “uncompetitive,” usually do so as an attempt to feel better about being unable to compete in that environment relative to those at the top of the scoreboard.
    Options
  • Varana
    Varana
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Hmm.
    Skilled? Probably not.
    Legit? Sure.
    In fact, I'd contend that large group play was the intended style of PvP - at least according to both their promotion, and early hype.
    Edited by Varana on March 30, 2020 6:04PM
    Options
  • Lowbei
    Lowbei
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Varana wrote: »
    Hmm.
    Skilled? Probably not.
    Legit? Sure.
    In fact, I'd contend that large group play was the intended style of PvP - at least according to both their promotion, and early hype.

    My friend Mark Jacobs (Mythic CEO), who personally designed the DAoC system that this games pvp was modeled after, disagrees with you, and his opinion weighs heavy. Large scale rvr (renamed ava for legal reasons) could only have “skill based combat“ if numbers werent the biggest deciding factor in a fight. Thus, it was determined that AoE caps would destroy it, so they were not added, and he was correct. DAoC went on to be known as the biggest and best pvp game for many years after its death, which is the reason it was chosen as the model for cyrodiil.

    In my years wiping zergs with my 8man, I was called every negative thing you can imagine, from unskilled, to cheater, to far worse. The zebra will never respect the lion.
    Edited by Lowbei on March 30, 2020 6:40PM
    Options
  • Nomadic_Atmoran
    Nomadic_Atmoran
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    FENGRUSH wrote: »
    Lowbei wrote: »
    ITT Small Scale PvPer trying to convince the forum goers that AoE caps ruined PvP.

    The mass exodus of the tens of thousands of pvpers happened within a couple months of release, before the performance degradation began, and the reason they left were due to AoE caps resulting in ball zergs everywhere. That part really isnt up for debate.

    You have sources for how many PvPers left? I bet you dont. So yeah, its definitely debatable.

    A absolutely massive amount. Servers completely emptied out over the course of a patch. This is back when there were many filled PVP servers.

    Here is a source directly related. What I don't understand is how you can be so obstinate over this claim. "I bet you dont." Why are you betting against it? You really dont believe people didn't want to play in an environment where they couldnt hit more than 6 people at a time while they are being overrun by 30+? Drop an AOE stun and it hits 6 as 24 run right past you. Yea, that makes a lot of sense.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/88049/do-you-think-there-should-be-an-aoe-cap/p1

    Servers always clear out after a game launches and players realize its not going to be what they wanted. Thats not news in the MMO genre. Trying to paint that exodus as if AoE caps was the sole reason or the deciding factor in why those players left is being misleading and typical of yourself and those that continue to bring up AoE caps. Youre a pretty well known 1vXer that has gone on plenty of rants about how you cant AoE down hoardes of players in the past. This isnt about making the game better and reviving PvP. Its always has and always will be about you wanting to be all powerful in an online environment. You could care less about fairplay or balance. So excuse me if I shrug off the opinions of someone that has a monetary interest in all of this.
    Penniless Sellsword Company
    Captain Paramount Jorrhaq Vhent
    Korith Eaglecry - Laerinel Rhaev - Enrerion - Caius Berilius - Seylina Ithvala - Signa Squallrider - H'Vak the Grimjawl
    Yynril Rothvani - Tenarei Rhaev - Bathes-In-Coin - Dazsh Ro Khar - Aredyhel - Reads-To-Frogs - Azjani Ma'Les
    Kheshna gra-Gharbuk - Gallisten Bondurant - Aban Shahid Bakr - Etain Maquier - Atsu Kalame - Faulpia Severinus
    Options
  • Sylosi
    Sylosi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lowbei wrote: »
    Sylosi wrote: »
    Why do MMORPG heroes go on about "skilled groups" in a low skilled, uncompetitive game mode / genre, is it just to give me a laugh?

    No offense, but in my experience playing only competitive games over the last 23 years, the only people who make such claims, that whatever pvp game they are playing is “low skilled” and “uncompetitive,” usually do so as an attempt to feel better about being unable to compete in that environment relative to those at the top of the scoreboard.

    Well I am sure that sort of "logic" makes you feel better, but back to reality, let's educate you on why Cyrodil (and RvR in general) is a joke competitively.

    With Cyrodil you have the following:

    - players with 10k hours experience vs players with 100 hours.
    - 16 year olds vs 60 year olds.
    - tryhards vs casuals
    - a game mode where you don't even have the same number of players on each team.

    This makes for a laughably uncompetitive (and therefore low skilled) game mode in every aspect, whether that be fights or for those who care, "winning" the match.

    Which is why to avoid the sort of issues listed above, actual competitive games (MOBAs, RTS, team based shooters, etc) have mechanisms like leagues, matchmaking, etc in order to produce some reasonable level of competitive PvP.

    And ironically it is actually the reason why RvR fails, because good, fun PvP requires competitive PvP. It is why in a PvP game a 500-0 result is boring for both teams, whilst a 500-499 is exciting and fun (and pushes people's ability - skill). RvR lacks meaningful mechanisms to produce competitive PvP, so it fails, leaving only roleplayers who want to PvDoor, casuals who play it a little and bad tryhards who want easy wins who have no interest in skilled, competitive or even good PvP.

    As for me, I have not even played ESO this year, let alone Cyrodil, I want decent PvP which this game does not provide, so I've started playing SC2 again, and yes there are people better than me up in GM/Master/Diamond, but contrary to your "logic" I'd say it is a very skilled game and even in its declining state is still far, far more competitive than the joke that is Cyrodil.

    Oh and what are these "competitive" games you have been playing for 20+ years, please don't tell me it is MMORPGs...
    Edited by Sylosi on March 30, 2020 7:14PM
    Options
  • Lowbei
    Lowbei
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    FENGRUSH wrote: »
    Lowbei wrote: »
    ITT Small Scale PvPer trying to convince the forum goers that AoE caps ruined PvP.

    The mass exodus of the tens of thousands of pvpers happened within a couple months of release, before the performance degradation began, and the reason they left were due to AoE caps resulting in ball zergs everywhere. That part really isnt up for debate.

    You have sources for how many PvPers left? I bet you dont. So yeah, its definitely debatable.

    A absolutely massive amount. Servers completely emptied out over the course of a patch. This is back when there were many filled PVP servers.

    Here is a source directly related. What I don't understand is how you can be so obstinate over this claim. "I bet you dont." Why are you betting against it? You really dont believe people didn't want to play in an environment where they couldnt hit more than 6 people at a time while they are being overrun by 30+? Drop an AOE stun and it hits 6 as 24 run right past you. Yea, that makes a lot of sense.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/88049/do-you-think-there-should-be-an-aoe-cap/p1

    Servers always clear out after a game launches and players realize its not going to be what they wanted. Thats not news in the MMO genre. Trying to paint that exodus as if AoE caps was the sole reason or the deciding factor in why those players left is being misleading and typical of yourself and those that continue to bring up AoE caps. Youre a pretty well known 1vXer that has gone on plenty of rants about how you cant AoE down hoardes of players in the past. This isnt about making the game better and reviving PvP. Its always has and always will be about you wanting to be all powerful in an online environment. You could care less about fairplay or balance. So excuse me if I shrug off the opinions of someone that has a monetary interest in all of this.

    I dont have monetary interest in this, and Fengrush is 100% correct.
    Options
  • Varana
    Varana
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    What are you talking about?

    To be clear, I was referring to this statement of yours:
    Lowbei wrote: »
    the zergball playstyle that they had convinced themselves was legit and skilled pvp.

    So again:
    Is zerging "skilled" gameplay? Probably not.
    Is it legit? Sure it is. It was even intended.

    I have trouble understanding how your reply is an answer to my post, in any meaningful way.
    Options
  • Lowbei
    Lowbei
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Varana wrote: »
    What are you talking about?

    To be clear, I was referring to this statement of yours:
    Lowbei wrote: »
    the zergball playstyle that they had convinced themselves was legit and skilled pvp.

    So again:
    Is zerging "skilled" gameplay? Probably not.
    Is it legit? Sure it is. It was even intended.

    I have trouble understanding how your reply is an answer to my post, in any meaningful way.

    The fact that you can admit that zerging isnt skilled gameplay, but cannot admit that beating a zerg with a small group is therefore logically more skilled gameplay than zerging, shows a willful blindness that I dont care to argue with.
    Edited by Lowbei on March 30, 2020 6:57PM
    Options
  • Varana
    Varana
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Lowbei wrote: »
    but cannot admit that beating a zerg with a small group is therefore logically more skilled gameplay than zerging
    Are we talking different languages? Does "legit" mean something else to you than to other people?
    "Legit": it's a play style that is intended and catered for by the creator; i.e. legitimate. Players are free to engage in that style of play, and it's encouraged or tolerated (as one among others) by the game designers.
    So I'm stumped - where did I ever insinuate anything like you wrote in that quote?
    Options
  • Lowbei
    Lowbei
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sylosi wrote: »
    Oh and what are these "competitive" games you have been playing for 20+ years, please don't tell me it is MMORPGs...

    ... well, since you asked...

    The MMOs that I found worthy are in my signature, the rest were omitted. You can check my steam profile (same name) for non-MMOs, some of which I have won money playing in tournaments, such as L4D2 and DBD. For giggles, feel free to scroll thru the 50+ pages of salt in the comments section, which I leave open to give people a place to vent, which keeps them from going to forums and getting name and shame bans while ranting about Lowbei the Terrible Villain.
    Edited by Lowbei on March 30, 2020 7:49PM
    Options
  • Lowbei
    Lowbei
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Varana wrote: »
    Lowbei wrote: »
    but cannot admit that beating a zerg with a small group is therefore logically more skilled gameplay than zerging
    Are we talking different languages? Does "legit" mean something else to you than to other people?
    "Legit": it's a play style that is intended and catered for by the creator; i.e. legitimate. Players are free to engage in that style of play, and it's encouraged or tolerated (as one among others) by the game designers.
    So I'm stumped - where did I ever insinuate anything like you wrote in that quote?

    You will have to excuse me for my crazy opinion that it is not legit to stack 50 people in one tiny ball (“stack on crown”), specifically to abuse an AoE cap system to become invincible.
    Edited by Lowbei on March 30, 2020 7:16PM
    Options
  • Artorias24
    Artorias24
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bryath wrote: »
    'Competitive' pvp'ers - "Hey, let's put together a small group consisting of elite players and use voice comms so we can destroy groups of 20-30 average players"

    Average pvp-ers - "It's no fun losing to these guys every time, lets combine forces so we stand a chance"

    'Competitive' pvp'ers - "Wtf, why are you guys zerging?"

    I can't really blame them, its natural to want to put together a winning group, but it ruins the small-scale type game for average players. Railing against people who have to zerg to have a chance is just silly.

    Actually i would like to see this. Average players learning how to Beat those elite players by rethinking their own playstyle/builds and more. Maybe build a group Setup, use voice and sets that work together.

    But instead of doing this they come to Forum, complain about XY that killed them, Put out cheat Reports, assume all of the elite players use macros anyway and continue their hate against them. While its not the elite players fault, or the devs or the game mechanics. If they refuse to learn its their own fault.

    CP1400, grand Overlord doesnt even know that vigor isnt the strongest heal on His magdk. Complains about getting killed and cant stand a chance against optimized builds. If He would stop using His sieges for at least once in His 6 years of gaming time and think about how He can do better He would definitly have more fun in this game. But no.... "Nice macro", "cheat... Report" and the list goes on...
    Options
  • Dusk_Coven
    Dusk_Coven
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    You have sources for how many PvPers left? I bet you dont. So yeah, its definitely debatable.

    I would consider first hand experience to be a valid source, even though it's notoriously hard to verify.

    It's fine then to call it conjecture, even plausible conjecture. But "true history"?
    "History" requires verifiable proof thoroughly researched and including contributing circumstances.
    How about a title that doesn't sound like misleading internet tabloid click-bait.
    Edited by Dusk_Coven on March 30, 2020 9:04PM
    Options
  • Nomadic_Atmoran
    Nomadic_Atmoran
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lowbei wrote: »
    FENGRUSH wrote: »
    Lowbei wrote: »
    ITT Small Scale PvPer trying to convince the forum goers that AoE caps ruined PvP.

    The mass exodus of the tens of thousands of pvpers happened within a couple months of release, before the performance degradation began, and the reason they left were due to AoE caps resulting in ball zergs everywhere. That part really isnt up for debate.

    You have sources for how many PvPers left? I bet you dont. So yeah, its definitely debatable.

    A absolutely massive amount. Servers completely emptied out over the course of a patch. This is back when there were many filled PVP servers.

    Here is a source directly related. What I don't understand is how you can be so obstinate over this claim. "I bet you dont." Why are you betting against it? You really dont believe people didn't want to play in an environment where they couldnt hit more than 6 people at a time while they are being overrun by 30+? Drop an AOE stun and it hits 6 as 24 run right past you. Yea, that makes a lot of sense.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/88049/do-you-think-there-should-be-an-aoe-cap/p1

    Servers always clear out after a game launches and players realize its not going to be what they wanted. Thats not news in the MMO genre. Trying to paint that exodus as if AoE caps was the sole reason or the deciding factor in why those players left is being misleading and typical of yourself and those that continue to bring up AoE caps. Youre a pretty well known 1vXer that has gone on plenty of rants about how you cant AoE down hoardes of players in the past. This isnt about making the game better and reviving PvP. Its always has and always will be about you wanting to be all powerful in an online environment. You could care less about fairplay or balance. So excuse me if I shrug off the opinions of someone that has a monetary interest in all of this.

    I dont have monetary interest in this, and Fengrush is 100% correct.

    I guess that settles it. Wait, it really doesnt. We have AoE caps in this game, thats not changing. So keep wailing about how you cant 1v30/50/100 players. Im certain the Developers are going to reverse course on that topic 6 years into the games development.
    Penniless Sellsword Company
    Captain Paramount Jorrhaq Vhent
    Korith Eaglecry - Laerinel Rhaev - Enrerion - Caius Berilius - Seylina Ithvala - Signa Squallrider - H'Vak the Grimjawl
    Yynril Rothvani - Tenarei Rhaev - Bathes-In-Coin - Dazsh Ro Khar - Aredyhel - Reads-To-Frogs - Azjani Ma'Les
    Kheshna gra-Gharbuk - Gallisten Bondurant - Aban Shahid Bakr - Etain Maquier - Atsu Kalame - Faulpia Severinus
    Options
  • Lowbei
    Lowbei
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lowbei wrote: »
    FENGRUSH wrote: »
    Lowbei wrote: »
    ITT Small Scale PvPer trying to convince the forum goers that AoE caps ruined PvP.

    The mass exodus of the tens of thousands of pvpers happened within a couple months of release, before the performance degradation began, and the reason they left were due to AoE caps resulting in ball zergs everywhere. That part really isnt up for debate.

    You have sources for how many PvPers left? I bet you dont. So yeah, its definitely debatable.

    A absolutely massive amount. Servers completely emptied out over the course of a patch. This is back when there were many filled PVP servers.

    Here is a source directly related. What I don't understand is how you can be so obstinate over this claim. "I bet you dont." Why are you betting against it? You really dont believe people didn't want to play in an environment where they couldnt hit more than 6 people at a time while they are being overrun by 30+? Drop an AOE stun and it hits 6 as 24 run right past you. Yea, that makes a lot of sense.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/88049/do-you-think-there-should-be-an-aoe-cap/p1

    Servers always clear out after a game launches and players realize its not going to be what they wanted. Thats not news in the MMO genre. Trying to paint that exodus as if AoE caps was the sole reason or the deciding factor in why those players left is being misleading and typical of yourself and those that continue to bring up AoE caps. Youre a pretty well known 1vXer that has gone on plenty of rants about how you cant AoE down hoardes of players in the past. This isnt about making the game better and reviving PvP. Its always has and always will be about you wanting to be all powerful in an online environment. You could care less about fairplay or balance. So excuse me if I shrug off the opinions of someone that has a monetary interest in all of this.

    I dont have monetary interest in this, and Fengrush is 100% correct.

    I guess that settles it. Wait, it really doesnt. We have AoE caps in this game, thats not changing. So keep wailing about how you cant 1v30/50/100 players. Im certain the Developers are going to reverse course on that topic 6 years into the games development.

    The irony...

    No, we do not have AoE caps in this game any more. They were removed a couple years ago, which any actual Cyrodiil player would know. They were unfortunately removed too late to save it, since over 90% of the players had already left, and thus the servers resources were reallocated to elsewhere.
    Edited by Lowbei on March 30, 2020 9:19PM
    Options
  • Dusk_Coven
    Dusk_Coven
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Varana wrote: »
    What are you talking about?

    To be clear, I was referring to this statement of yours:
    Lowbei wrote: »
    the zergball playstyle that they had convinced themselves was legit and skilled pvp.

    So again:
    Is zerging "skilled" gameplay? Probably not.
    Is it legit? Sure it is. It was even intended.

    I have trouble understanding how your reply is an answer to my post, in any meaningful way.

    Cyrodiil is meant for large scale so why not a zerg? Basic PvP advice for newbs is "stay together" -- so that's what they're doing?
    It's like the group-finder for Cyrodiil when you don't want to organize your own team. And if it didn't work some of the time people wouldn't bother. It's not the best, but neither is a pug of randos for a vet trial and I think people who zerg know that.
    Options
  • Lowbei
    Lowbei
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    Varana wrote: »
    What are you talking about?

    To be clear, I was referring to this statement of yours:
    Lowbei wrote: »
    the zergball playstyle that they had convinced themselves was legit and skilled pvp.

    So again:
    Is zerging "skilled" gameplay? Probably not.
    Is it legit? Sure it is. It was even intended.

    I have trouble understanding how your reply is an answer to my post, in any meaningful way.

    Cyrodiil is meant for large scale so why not a zerg? Basic PvP advice for newbs is "stay together" -- so that's what they're doing?
    It's like the group-finder for Cyrodiil when you don't want to organize your own team. And if it didn't work some of the time people wouldn't bother. It's not the best, but neither is a pug of randos for a vet trial and I think people who zerg know that.

    Zerging is to be expected in any large scale pvp mmo. Zerging isnt the problem.

    There is a difference between zerging, and stack on crown ballgroups. Normal zergs arent exploiting the AoE caps, and ballzergs are, which has been clearly stated numerous times here.
    Edited by Lowbei on March 30, 2020 9:34PM
    Options
  • BrokenGameMechanics
    BrokenGameMechanics
    ✭✭✭✭
    Lowbei wrote: »

    The combination of Vicious Death and Magika Detonation (as well as other misc abilities), wielded by a small group of skilled players can bring down a blob zerg of any size. It is unfortunately rare to see nowadays now that very few skilled groups are left, which is not an insult to current groups, but nevertheless accurate.

    I would link some videos of my smallman wiping zergs, but in the past they were deemed "naming and shaming" and I dont want to derail the thread.

    I suspect your overall analysis is somewhat suspect, but cannot point by point dispute nor see the validity of its points.

    But I can say this:
    1. Vicious Death and Magicka Det are 100% total cheese and about as far from skilled play as one can get.
    2. They were adhoc solutions that have resulted in more problems then they addressed and are no longer required as things have moved on. Frankly, they could and probably should be removed.



    Edited by BrokenGameMechanics on March 30, 2020 11:48PM
    Options
  • Lowbei
    Lowbei
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lowbei wrote: »

    The combination of Vicious Death and Magika Detonation (as well as other misc abilities), wielded by a small group of skilled players can bring down a blob zerg of any size. It is unfortunately rare to see nowadays now that very few skilled groups are left, which is not an insult to current groups, but nevertheless accurate.

    I would link some videos of my smallman wiping zergs, but in the past they were deemed "naming and shaming" and I dont want to derail the thread.

    I suspect your overall analysis is somewhat suspect, but cannot point by point dispute nor see the validity of its points.

    But I can say this:
    1. Vicious Death and Magicka Det are 100% total cheese and about as far from skilled play as one can get.
    2. They were adhoc solutions that have resulted in more problems then they addressed and are no longer required as things have moved on. Frankly, they could and probably should be removed.



    Both VD and Magika Det literally only work on zergballs. Furthermore, zergballs are the only people I have ever seen be upset by these. If you have any reason for wanting them removed, other than because they wiped your zergball, I would love to hear it.
    Edited by Lowbei on March 31, 2020 12:01AM
    Options
  • worrallj
    worrallj
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm also curious about the source. Very interesting if true, but it's so common to hear clueless people confidently explain technical details about how mmo server performance works.

    Also curious where all these skilled pvpers went- not too many games out there offer a similar experience which is part of the reason I think they can afford to slack a bit on performance.
    Options
  • BrokenGameMechanics
    BrokenGameMechanics
    ✭✭✭✭
    Lowbei wrote: »
    [
    Both VD and Magika Det literally only work on zergballs. Furthermore, zergballs are the only people I have ever seen be upset by these. If you have any reason for wanting them removed, other than because they wiped your zergball, I would love to hear it.

    One I got just shy of 100K PVP kills. Two I almost never, ever run in a group. But I do stay primarily in the inner ring. I tend to be right in the middle of whatever is hotest. "Zergballs" as you call them, as opposed shall I say, 4-man Cheese Balls which seems to be your preferred play style as near as I can determine, get annoyed precisely because it is 100% Mozzarella Cheese play that has nothing to do with skill or tactical group engagement.

    Sooo much has changed across the board that there is actually some true tactical, skilled play that is and can be used against large ball groups running around spamming Ultis. Ulti spamming zergballs running are still way too annoying, BUT we don't need to return to the era of Cheese Balls, which were never "skilled" play, to deal with the situation of Zergballs. Their utility time has passed, remove them.

    I guess a case could be made for retaining them as they are still a viable, yet effective option for more casual players given the simplicity of play, however, these days, far too often, a great back and forth engagement between two sides utterly ruined by VD.
    Edited by BrokenGameMechanics on March 31, 2020 1:46AM
    Options
This discussion has been closed.