Cage_Lizardman wrote: »Please tell ZoS to nerf bashing as well if they're doing this. Come on, no one even wants to do that crap, not even the "git gud" crowd is that crazy.
Cage_Lizardman wrote: »Please tell ZoS to nerf bashing as well if they're doing this. Come on, no one even wants to do that crap, not even the "git gud" crowd is that crazy.
orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Hey Folks, I know everyone is in an uproar and I do want to help. I believe that even if nothing else of the pts changes go live, there will be an upcoming nerf to light attack damage. And I want to help you understand feelings that your going to be experiencing. So first, why do I believe that no matter that LA ARE going to be nerfed 78% in the future. Very simply, an empowered LA can often do as much or more damage than a skill that cost resource or a bash that cost resource. This simply will not do and its easy to see that some of these changes derive from the amount of dps gained by light attacks. So, the future holds their nerf and if you read most folks rejection this nerf is there true concern.
Of course, first most folks are gonna deny the writing on the wall. "look they say maybe they wouldn't do it... and that's highlighted!" Welcome to the first stage of grief. That's right, its not gonna happen, nobody would accept it, ZOS would never! Well the writing is on the wall or better yet observable in the PTS server.
Most folks jump swiftly into anger. "How dare they make these changes, are they stupid!" Its easy to lash out in anger at a change that hurts, its YOUR DPS! They cant take it from you! That 4-5k white damage between every skill! They cant do this! Well... they can and are and once the anger subsides you still will not be able to accept that your not in charge.
What do folks do that don't have power but want to influence those with power? The bargain, its natural and easy and many are now reaching this phase. Just buff heavy attacks they cry, or give all attacks resource regen, or even... Ill quit if you make these changes. As if your continuing support from among the multitude equals enough influence to give them pause for a nerf they greatly desire.
once you realize your not important enough to bargain with, utter sadness sets in, depression. Many gamers have not yet got there and wont until the nerf is actually implemented. ZOS was particularly clever in this regard. Throw out a change that would likely be very unpopular and let the players begin the five stages of grief early. This way once the nerf does happen in the future, the response will be more muted and the players can shift quickly from depression into
Acceptance. This is the end folks. After the pain of losing on average 10K dps to a light attack nerf, folks will pick themselves back up and carry on. In a year or two few will ever have remember their period of grief, they'll be new dungeons and new changes to go through the cycle again and again.
So please I know the PTS changes are a shock, yes the numbers need to be adjusted some (or bow gank squads are gonna dominate all of cyrodil). But for those that know and are prepared, the up coming light attack nerf is now inevitable and its time to safely express your grief.
orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Hey Folks, I know everyone is in an uproar and I do want to help. I believe that even if nothing else of the pts changes go live, there will be an upcoming nerf to light attack damage. And I want to help you understand feelings that your going to be experiencing. So first, why do I believe that no matter that LA ARE going to be nerfed 78% in the future. Very simply, an empowered LA can often do as much or more damage than a skill that cost resource or a bash that cost resource. This simply will not do and its easy to see that some of these changes derive from the amount of dps gained by light attacks. So, the future holds their nerf and if you read most folks rejection this nerf is there true concern.
Of course, first most folks are gonna deny the writing on the wall. "look they say maybe they wouldn't do it... and that's highlighted!" Welcome to the first stage of grief. That's right, its not gonna happen, nobody would accept it, ZOS would never! Well the writing is on the wall or better yet observable in the PTS server.
Most folks jump swiftly into anger. "How dare they make these changes, are they stupid!" Its easy to lash out in anger at a change that hurts, its YOUR DPS! They cant take it from you! That 4-5k white damage between every skill! They cant do this! Well... they can and are and once the anger subsides you still will not be able to accept that your not in charge.
What do folks do that don't have power but want to influence those with power? The bargain, its natural and easy and many are now reaching this phase. Just buff heavy attacks they cry, or give all attacks resource regen, or even... Ill quit if you make these changes. As if your continuing support from among the multitude equals enough influence to give them pause for a nerf they greatly desire.
once you realize your not important enough to bargain with, utter sadness sets in, depression. Many gamers have not yet got there and wont until the nerf is actually implemented. ZOS was particularly clever in this regard. Throw out a change that would likely be very unpopular and let the players begin the five stages of grief early. This way once the nerf does happen in the future, the response will be more muted and the players can shift quickly from depression into
Acceptance. This is the end folks. After the pain of losing on average 10K dps to a light attack nerf, folks will pick themselves back up and carry on. In a year or two few will ever have remember their period of grief, they'll be new dungeons and new changes to go through the cycle again and again.
So please I know the PTS changes are a shock, yes the numbers need to be adjusted some (or bow gank squads are gonna dominate all of cyrodil). But for those that know and are prepared, the up coming light attack nerf is now inevitable and its time to safely express your grief.
You know how much a loss of 10 k dps hurts in pvp? Thats the difference between a good fight against a tank meta build, and a hopeless fight. Please get back to us when you actually know what you are talking about.
JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Hey Folks, I know everyone is in an uproar and I do want to help. I believe that even if nothing else of the pts changes go live, there will be an upcoming nerf to light attack damage. And I want to help you understand feelings that your going to be experiencing. So first, why do I believe that no matter that LA ARE going to be nerfed 78% in the future. Very simply, an empowered LA can often do as much or more damage than a skill that cost resource or a bash that cost resource. This simply will not do and its easy to see that some of these changes derive from the amount of dps gained by light attacks. So, the future holds their nerf and if you read most folks rejection this nerf is there true concern.
Of course, first most folks are gonna deny the writing on the wall. "look they say maybe they wouldn't do it... and that's highlighted!" Welcome to the first stage of grief. That's right, its not gonna happen, nobody would accept it, ZOS would never! Well the writing is on the wall or better yet observable in the PTS server.
Most folks jump swiftly into anger. "How dare they make these changes, are they stupid!" Its easy to lash out in anger at a change that hurts, its YOUR DPS! They cant take it from you! That 4-5k white damage between every skill! They cant do this! Well... they can and are and once the anger subsides you still will not be able to accept that your not in charge.
What do folks do that don't have power but want to influence those with power? The bargain, its natural and easy and many are now reaching this phase. Just buff heavy attacks they cry, or give all attacks resource regen, or even... Ill quit if you make these changes. As if your continuing support from among the multitude equals enough influence to give them pause for a nerf they greatly desire.
once you realize your not important enough to bargain with, utter sadness sets in, depression. Many gamers have not yet got there and wont until the nerf is actually implemented. ZOS was particularly clever in this regard. Throw out a change that would likely be very unpopular and let the players begin the five stages of grief early. This way once the nerf does happen in the future, the response will be more muted and the players can shift quickly from depression into
Acceptance. This is the end folks. After the pain of losing on average 10K dps to a light attack nerf, folks will pick themselves back up and carry on. In a year or two few will ever have remember their period of grief, they'll be new dungeons and new changes to go through the cycle again and again.
So please I know the PTS changes are a shock, yes the numbers need to be adjusted some (or bow gank squads are gonna dominate all of cyrodil). But for those that know and are prepared, the up coming light attack nerf is now inevitable and its time to safely express your grief.
You know how much a loss of 10 k dps hurts in pvp? Thats the difference between a good fight against a tank meta build, and a hopeless fight. Please get back to us when you actually know what you are talking about.
he seems to kno better then u do. cus what he is saying is what you are already doin... denial. lovely.
But you seem to be misinterpreting things left and right of late. Cus what he is saying (and you yet again dodged the point) is, no matter what we say... this will most likely eventually go live. And we all will have to go through the stages. And already are goin through em (whether i agree with him or not, i dont specify).
JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Hey Folks, I know everyone is in an uproar and I do want to help. I believe that even if nothing else of the pts changes go live, there will be an upcoming nerf to light attack damage. And I want to help you understand feelings that your going to be experiencing. So first, why do I believe that no matter that LA ARE going to be nerfed 78% in the future. Very simply, an empowered LA can often do as much or more damage than a skill that cost resource or a bash that cost resource. This simply will not do and its easy to see that some of these changes derive from the amount of dps gained by light attacks. So, the future holds their nerf and if you read most folks rejection this nerf is there true concern.
Of course, first most folks are gonna deny the writing on the wall. "look they say maybe they wouldn't do it... and that's highlighted!" Welcome to the first stage of grief. That's right, its not gonna happen, nobody would accept it, ZOS would never! Well the writing is on the wall or better yet observable in the PTS server.
Most folks jump swiftly into anger. "How dare they make these changes, are they stupid!" Its easy to lash out in anger at a change that hurts, its YOUR DPS! They cant take it from you! That 4-5k white damage between every skill! They cant do this! Well... they can and are and once the anger subsides you still will not be able to accept that your not in charge.
What do folks do that don't have power but want to influence those with power? The bargain, its natural and easy and many are now reaching this phase. Just buff heavy attacks they cry, or give all attacks resource regen, or even... Ill quit if you make these changes. As if your continuing support from among the multitude equals enough influence to give them pause for a nerf they greatly desire.
once you realize your not important enough to bargain with, utter sadness sets in, depression. Many gamers have not yet got there and wont until the nerf is actually implemented. ZOS was particularly clever in this regard. Throw out a change that would likely be very unpopular and let the players begin the five stages of grief early. This way once the nerf does happen in the future, the response will be more muted and the players can shift quickly from depression into
Acceptance. This is the end folks. After the pain of losing on average 10K dps to a light attack nerf, folks will pick themselves back up and carry on. In a year or two few will ever have remember their period of grief, they'll be new dungeons and new changes to go through the cycle again and again.
So please I know the PTS changes are a shock, yes the numbers need to be adjusted some (or bow gank squads are gonna dominate all of cyrodil). But for those that know and are prepared, the up coming light attack nerf is now inevitable and its time to safely express your grief.
You know how much a loss of 10 k dps hurts in pvp? Thats the difference between a good fight against a tank meta build, and a hopeless fight. Please get back to us when you actually know what you are talking about.
he seems to kno better then u do. cus what he is saying is what you are already doin... denial. lovely.
But you seem to be misinterpreting things left and right of late. Cus what he is saying (and you yet again dodged the point) is, no matter what we say... this will most likely eventually go live. And we all will have to go through the stages. And already are goin through em (whether i agree with him or not, i dont specify).
Not true, they introduced an idea about putting cast times on shields before for mag toons, and the backlash was far less than this. And they dumped it. And yeah, he def knows better than me when he says 10 k dps loss isnt a huge thing for pvp. Ok.
JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Hey Folks, I know everyone is in an uproar and I do want to help. I believe that even if nothing else of the pts changes go live, there will be an upcoming nerf to light attack damage. And I want to help you understand feelings that your going to be experiencing. So first, why do I believe that no matter that LA ARE going to be nerfed 78% in the future. Very simply, an empowered LA can often do as much or more damage than a skill that cost resource or a bash that cost resource. This simply will not do and its easy to see that some of these changes derive from the amount of dps gained by light attacks. So, the future holds their nerf and if you read most folks rejection this nerf is there true concern.
Of course, first most folks are gonna deny the writing on the wall. "look they say maybe they wouldn't do it... and that's highlighted!" Welcome to the first stage of grief. That's right, its not gonna happen, nobody would accept it, ZOS would never! Well the writing is on the wall or better yet observable in the PTS server.
Most folks jump swiftly into anger. "How dare they make these changes, are they stupid!" Its easy to lash out in anger at a change that hurts, its YOUR DPS! They cant take it from you! That 4-5k white damage between every skill! They cant do this! Well... they can and are and once the anger subsides you still will not be able to accept that your not in charge.
What do folks do that don't have power but want to influence those with power? The bargain, its natural and easy and many are now reaching this phase. Just buff heavy attacks they cry, or give all attacks resource regen, or even... Ill quit if you make these changes. As if your continuing support from among the multitude equals enough influence to give them pause for a nerf they greatly desire.
once you realize your not important enough to bargain with, utter sadness sets in, depression. Many gamers have not yet got there and wont until the nerf is actually implemented. ZOS was particularly clever in this regard. Throw out a change that would likely be very unpopular and let the players begin the five stages of grief early. This way once the nerf does happen in the future, the response will be more muted and the players can shift quickly from depression into
Acceptance. This is the end folks. After the pain of losing on average 10K dps to a light attack nerf, folks will pick themselves back up and carry on. In a year or two few will ever have remember their period of grief, they'll be new dungeons and new changes to go through the cycle again and again.
So please I know the PTS changes are a shock, yes the numbers need to be adjusted some (or bow gank squads are gonna dominate all of cyrodil). But for those that know and are prepared, the up coming light attack nerf is now inevitable and its time to safely express your grief.
You know how much a loss of 10 k dps hurts in pvp? Thats the difference between a good fight against a tank meta build, and a hopeless fight. Please get back to us when you actually know what you are talking about.
he seems to kno better then u do. cus what he is saying is what you are already doin... denial. lovely.
But you seem to be misinterpreting things left and right of late. Cus what he is saying (and you yet again dodged the point) is, no matter what we say... this will most likely eventually go live. And we all will have to go through the stages. And already are goin through em (whether i agree with him or not, i dont specify).
Not true, they introduced an idea about putting cast times on shields before for mag toons, and the backlash was far less than this. And they dumped it. And yeah, he def knows better than me when he says 10 k dps loss isnt a huge thing for pvp. Ok.
The backlash was not far less than this.
I know this, because every time something so ugly happens, I get banned for days to weeks because I get fairly "hot" in the debate.
With cast time shields I got 2 bans, with LA nerf, so far, only one warning.
orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Hey Folks, I know everyone is in an uproar and I do want to help. I believe that even if nothing else of the pts changes go live, there will be an upcoming nerf to light attack damage. And I want to help you understand feelings that your going to be experiencing. So first, why do I believe that no matter that LA ARE going to be nerfed 78% in the future. Very simply, an empowered LA can often do as much or more damage than a skill that cost resource or a bash that cost resource. This simply will not do and its easy to see that some of these changes derive from the amount of dps gained by light attacks. So, the future holds their nerf and if you read most folks rejection this nerf is there true concern.
Of course, first most folks are gonna deny the writing on the wall. "look they say maybe they wouldn't do it... and that's highlighted!" Welcome to the first stage of grief. That's right, its not gonna happen, nobody would accept it, ZOS would never! Well the writing is on the wall or better yet observable in the PTS server.
Most folks jump swiftly into anger. "How dare they make these changes, are they stupid!" Its easy to lash out in anger at a change that hurts, its YOUR DPS! They cant take it from you! That 4-5k white damage between every skill! They cant do this! Well... they can and are and once the anger subsides you still will not be able to accept that your not in charge.
What do folks do that don't have power but want to influence those with power? The bargain, its natural and easy and many are now reaching this phase. Just buff heavy attacks they cry, or give all attacks resource regen, or even... Ill quit if you make these changes. As if your continuing support from among the multitude equals enough influence to give them pause for a nerf they greatly desire.
once you realize your not important enough to bargain with, utter sadness sets in, depression. Many gamers have not yet got there and wont until the nerf is actually implemented. ZOS was particularly clever in this regard. Throw out a change that would likely be very unpopular and let the players begin the five stages of grief early. This way once the nerf does happen in the future, the response will be more muted and the players can shift quickly from depression into
Acceptance. This is the end folks. After the pain of losing on average 10K dps to a light attack nerf, folks will pick themselves back up and carry on. In a year or two few will ever have remember their period of grief, they'll be new dungeons and new changes to go through the cycle again and again.
So please I know the PTS changes are a shock, yes the numbers need to be adjusted some (or bow gank squads are gonna dominate all of cyrodil). But for those that know and are prepared, the up coming light attack nerf is now inevitable and its time to safely express your grief.
You know how much a loss of 10 k dps hurts in pvp? Thats the difference between a good fight against a tank meta build, and a hopeless fight. Please get back to us when you actually know what you are talking about.
orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Hey Folks, I know everyone is in an uproar and I do want to help. I believe that even if nothing else of the pts changes go live, there will be an upcoming nerf to light attack damage. And I want to help you understand feelings that your going to be experiencing. So first, why do I believe that no matter that LA ARE going to be nerfed 78% in the future. Very simply, an empowered LA can often do as much or more damage than a skill that cost resource or a bash that cost resource. This simply will not do and its easy to see that some of these changes derive from the amount of dps gained by light attacks. So, the future holds their nerf and if you read most folks rejection this nerf is there true concern.
Of course, first most folks are gonna deny the writing on the wall. "look they say maybe they wouldn't do it... and that's highlighted!" Welcome to the first stage of grief. That's right, its not gonna happen, nobody would accept it, ZOS would never! Well the writing is on the wall or better yet observable in the PTS server.
Most folks jump swiftly into anger. "How dare they make these changes, are they stupid!" Its easy to lash out in anger at a change that hurts, its YOUR DPS! They cant take it from you! That 4-5k white damage between every skill! They cant do this! Well... they can and are and once the anger subsides you still will not be able to accept that your not in charge.
What do folks do that don't have power but want to influence those with power? The bargain, its natural and easy and many are now reaching this phase. Just buff heavy attacks they cry, or give all attacks resource regen, or even... Ill quit if you make these changes. As if your continuing support from among the multitude equals enough influence to give them pause for a nerf they greatly desire.
once you realize your not important enough to bargain with, utter sadness sets in, depression. Many gamers have not yet got there and wont until the nerf is actually implemented. ZOS was particularly clever in this regard. Throw out a change that would likely be very unpopular and let the players begin the five stages of grief early. This way once the nerf does happen in the future, the response will be more muted and the players can shift quickly from depression into
Acceptance. This is the end folks. After the pain of losing on average 10K dps to a light attack nerf, folks will pick themselves back up and carry on. In a year or two few will ever have remember their period of grief, they'll be new dungeons and new changes to go through the cycle again and again.
So please I know the PTS changes are a shock, yes the numbers need to be adjusted some (or bow gank squads are gonna dominate all of cyrodil). But for those that know and are prepared, the up coming light attack nerf is now inevitable and its time to safely express your grief.
You know how much a loss of 10 k dps hurts in pvp? Thats the difference between a good fight against a tank meta build, and a hopeless fight. Please get back to us when you actually know what you are talking about.
Agreed. Nerfing damage this substantially will make pvp even more zerg friendly and honestly push the tank meta to extreme heights
For those of us who have played this game for a while, we somehow managed to make it, and do well, before Zos buffed LAs to where it is now. If Zos nerfs LAs and buffs Medium to HAs we will somehow be able to play this game well just like we did before.
I am not suggesting what we are testing is the best idea. I do prefer the one Code suggested over what Zos has setup for testing. I have linked it below.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/517845/how-the-la-ha-changes-fail-to-fulfill-zoss-stated-goals-and-what-could-be-done-instead/p1
orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »I use to play EQ... a dark elf cleric. But they wouldn't upgrade the game enough to make me stay, shows them whos boss. Then I played Lineage 2 dark elf SK but they would fix the Chinese farm bots. Then I played...…. I could go on for a very long time. Enjoy the game while you can, they simply don't last but you might get a tshirt at the end.
For those of us who have played this game for a while, we somehow managed to make it, and do well, before Zos buffed LAs to where it is now. If Zos nerfs LAs and buffs Medium to HAs we will somehow be able to play this game well just like we did before.
I am not suggesting what we are testing is the best idea. I do prefer the one Code suggested over what Zos has setup for testing. I have linked it below.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/517845/how-the-la-ha-changes-fail-to-fulfill-zoss-stated-goals-and-what-could-be-done-instead/p1
LittlePinkDot wrote: »For those of us who have played this game for a while, we somehow managed to make it, and do well, before Zos buffed LAs to where it is now. If Zos nerfs LAs and buffs Medium to HAs we will somehow be able to play this game well just like we did before.
I am not suggesting what we are testing is the best idea. I do prefer the one Code suggested over what Zos has setup for testing. I have linked it below.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/517845/how-the-la-ha-changes-fail-to-fulfill-zoss-stated-goals-and-what-could-be-done-instead/p1
I was wondering.... If light attacks restore more resources... If we still light attack weave does that mean we won't have to wear a sustain set or any Regen enchants/traits?
CleymenZero wrote: »Am I the only one who saw this?
"We’d like to emphasize the possibility of these changes never actually going into the game – we are simply testing and gathering feedback right now."
And given the current feedback, it just WON'T make it to live in its current form. Simple.
Keep giving feedback though, that helps. I have to to say that seeing you guys Romeo and Juliette over all of this is pretty entertaining.
CleymenZero wrote: »Am I the only one who saw this?
"We’d like to emphasize the possibility of these changes never actually going into the game – we are simply testing and gathering feedback right now."
And given the current feedback, it just WON'T make it to live in its current form. Simple.
Keep giving feedback though, that helps. I have to to say that seeing you guys Romeo and Juliette over all of this is pretty entertaining.
Our lengthy history with Zeni has taught us that once a change makes it to PTS they are committed to it. Statements to the contrary are meant to appease dissenters until people have time to get used to the idea.
John_Falstaff wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »For those of us who have played this game for a while, we somehow managed to make it, and do well, before Zos buffed LAs to where it is now. If Zos nerfs LAs and buffs Medium to HAs we will somehow be able to play this game well just like we did before.
I am not suggesting what we are testing is the best idea. I do prefer the one Code suggested over what Zos has setup for testing. I have linked it below.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/517845/how-the-la-ha-changes-fail-to-fulfill-zoss-stated-goals-and-what-could-be-done-instead/p1
I was wondering.... If light attacks restore more resources... If we still light attack weave does that mean we won't have to wear a sustain set or any Regen enchants/traits?
In a reasonably optimized group on live you already don't have to do any tradeoffs, people run all damage enchants, damage races, no sustain sets just fine. And if your group is not optimized, then, well, you probably have DDs that don't weave well anyway, so they'll be struggling for sustain just the same.
LittlePinkDot wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »For those of us who have played this game for a while, we somehow managed to make it, and do well, before Zos buffed LAs to where it is now. If Zos nerfs LAs and buffs Medium to HAs we will somehow be able to play this game well just like we did before.
I am not suggesting what we are testing is the best idea. I do prefer the one Code suggested over what Zos has setup for testing. I have linked it below.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/517845/how-the-la-ha-changes-fail-to-fulfill-zoss-stated-goals-and-what-could-be-done-instead/p1
I was wondering.... If light attacks restore more resources... If we still light attack weave does that mean we won't have to wear a sustain set or any Regen enchants/traits?
In a reasonably optimized group on live you already don't have to do any tradeoffs, people run all damage enchants, damage races, no sustain sets just fine. And if your group is not optimized, then, well, you probably have DDs that don't weave well anyway, so they'll be struggling for sustain just the same.
I love sustain sets. It makes playing more fun because I can be more carefree