ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »While manually farming bosses in public spaces where others are clearly also trying to get a chance at them may not be the most polite thing to do, it is not a violation of our Terms of Service nor is it something you should report people for. Now, if you're using a bot program to farm, yes that behavior should be reported, and yes we will ban those individuals to Oblivion. If you're found to be deliberately abusing our report system, we may take action on you, so please don't. Make sure the person you are reporting is actually botting before you act.
ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »While manually farming bosses in public spaces where others are clearly also trying to get a chance at them may not be the most polite thing to do, it is not a violation of our Terms of Service nor is it something you should report people for. Now, if you're using a bot program to farm, yes that behavior should be reported, and yes we will ban those individuals to Oblivion. If you're found to be deliberately abusing our report system, we may take action on you, so please don't. Make sure the person you are reporting is actually botting before you act.
ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »While manually farming bosses in public spaces where others are clearly also trying to get a chance at them may not be the most polite thing to do, it is not a violation of our Terms of Service nor is it something you should report people for. Now, if you're using a bot program to farm, yes that behavior should be reported, and yes we will ban those individuals to Oblivion. If you're found to be deliberately abusing our report system, we may take action on you, so please don't. Make sure the person you are reporting is actually botting before you act.
So.. now you have me asking what is botting that I can report? I would just as soon report characters who appear to be botting and let the GMs sort it out. From the following situations I saw last night that I reported:
1. 10 characters, all with different variations of spelling of their names standing on top of the spawn spot of the boss in a public dungeon. As soon as the mob spawned, they ALL attacked him and he died in under 15 seconds. This was repeated 5/6 times before we finally got a hit in. Made it almost impossible for any in my group of four to get a hit in and complete the achievement for the dungeon.
2. 5 characters also standing on top of the final boss of a smaller public dungeon. When he/she/it spawned, (could not tell, as it died to fast to even see), any in the area literally went into combat and back out it died so fast. On that one, the only reason my group got the kill was because, after three attempts, I put a HoT on the guys, before it spawned, so we got kill credit.
Threatening those of us who take our game time, that we could be playing and try and make the game better by combating botting by reporting potential bots, with bans if we report people who say they are not botting but who appear to be, will just make it so no one wants to report them. This will lead to more player frustration than we are already experiencing.
How about instead, you can only get XP and loot from a dungeon boss once every hour or so, so they get no reward from the experience? I see you are addressing loot in the post, but handicapping the XP would also help discourage it.
"Make sure the person you are reporting is actually botting before you act." Im not taking time from my play time to do your job.
No because Zenimax does not agree and told me directly to report these people gives me the right to do so. Did you miss that part or something? To be fair I Lways /say I am doing so, most people just sling insults at that point.
To be perfectly blunt if they go rid of everyone wjo thought this was cool and the way the game was intended to be played my game could only improve. What you seem to refuse to realize if you are hurting my game by playing like that. .. but you know you are you just do not care about other players. So why even play online? Yo can farm for years in Skyrim why not just play single player or farmville if all you want to do is farm... you certainly do not need to be online ruining my gameplay to achieve this but for some reason made the conscious decision to do so.
Who told you this? Show your proof. Because boss farming is NOT against Zenimax's TOS.
"...farming these bosses, while possibly not very courteous of others who are trying to have a shot at the content too, is not against our Terms of Service.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/597542/#Comment_597542
So whoever told you that, if anyone, is not only wrong, but has told you to do something that will probably get you banned in the long run. Reporting someone and getting them banned or suspended is a big deal. And to do it to players that aren't even bots just because you don't like how they play is repulsive, and I hope you get what's coming to you.
I kill the boss for the quest (if it has one), and for loot after, for items to deconstruct to level my crafting profession, and to get a few soul gems and potions, and it is just as valid a reason as any other, including killing the mob for a quest. Nobody can tell me their way of playing is more important than mine, or that their time comes before mine, that I have to defer to you, the "holy" immersive quest completer, because your priorities are more important than mine. I have just as much right to kill the mob as anyone else, as many times as I want, and Zenimax said so; "...The act of manually farming these bosses, while possibly not very courteous of others who are trying to have a shot at the content too, is not against our Terms of Service." Killing a boss faster than another does NOT equal "blocking" or griefing. It's PUBLIC dungeon. It's not your dungeon, and it certainly isn't your mob/boss. You (and your style of gaming) aren't more important than anyone else. It's a public dungeon in an MMO for crying out loud! Get over yourself. You can't impose restrictions on gameplay, whether farming or gathering or whatever. If a person is so inclined, and has the time, they can, and should, be able to play as they see fit. And if that means gathering for ten hours, or killing dungeon bosses for ten hours, it doesn't matter, and it doesn't make it wrong. And Zenimax agrees.
You don't get to dictate how I choose to play this game. A mob/boss belongs to everyone, to kill whenever, and however many times, they want.
What is with the whack-a-moles?
It is not about farming people and NO ONE has an issue with that. What we do take serious issue with is hinderinv other peoples gameplay.
Seriously what do these types just not understand about that? Are they miasing tue basic concept or something? You can still farm perfectly well In the overland go hard and have it.
You are NOT allowed to hinder another player which is exactly what was happening and for god sakes. this is AGAINST your precious TOS and no amount of bold will change that. Get over yourselves already.
Additionally as they are changing bosses to not be farmable it turns out I and everyone else which is a large number can very much dictate how you play thee game or more precisly how you may not.
9. It is not my job to determine who is bot and not if your standing in the corpse humping pile and dont move you get reported. Do not care you are a bot and interfering. ZOS is welcome to tell me not too but they wont because they agree duh.
What is with the whack-a-moles?
It is not about farming people and NO ONE has an issue with that. What we do take serious issue with is hindering other peoples gameplay.
Seriously what do these types just not understand about that? Are they miasing tue basic concept or something? You can still farm perfectly well In the overland go hard and have it.
You are NOT allowed to hinder another player which is exactly what was happening and for god sakes. this is AGAINST your precious TOS and no amount of bold will change that. Get over yourselves already.
Still waiting on your proof that they told you to report people, NOT bots, farming dungeon bosses.
Here's mine again,
"...farming these bosses, while possibly not very courteous of others who are trying to have a shot at the content too, is not against our Terms of Service.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/597542/#Comment_597542
Now you're talking about hindering, but nobody is doing that that I've noticed, and certainly not me. I'm not killing the boss to "block" someone else from completing something. I'm not some high level camping a level 15 dungeon boss and one-shotting it the instant it spawns for the sole purpose of preventing other players from completing it, all the while gloating about it to them. Intent is everything. My intent is to kill the boss for loot, for items to deconstruct to level my crafting profession, and to get a few soul gems and potions, to progress my character, and it is just as valid a reason as any other, including killing the mob for a quest. I'm progressing my gameplay, my crafting. Nobody can tell me their way of playing is more important than mine, or that their time comes before mine, that I have to defer to these "holy" quest completers, because their priorities are more important than mine. I have just as much right to kill the mob as anyone else to progress my character as I see fit, as many times as I want, and Zenimax said so; "...The act of manually farming these bosses, while possibly not very courteous of others who are trying to have a shot at the content too, is not against our Terms of Service." Killing a boss faster than another does NOT equal "blocking" or griefing.
ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Folks, we've said this other places on the forums but there seems to be some misinformation floating around so we'll say it again. While manually farming bosses in public spaces where others are clearly also trying to get a chance at them may not be the most polite thing to do, it is not a violation of our Terms of Service nor is it something you should report people for. Now, if you're using a bot program to farm, yes that behavior should be reported, and yes we will ban those individuals to Oblivion. If you're found to be deliberately abusing our report system, we may take action on you, so please don't. Make sure the person you are reporting is actually botting before you act.
When we see something we feel could work a little better, we do welcome your feedback, and will make a change on our side if we feel it's necessary. For example, we are making some changes to how often people can get loot off of bosses in public spaces, as explained in this post.
It is absurd to suggest that this behaviour is not affecting gameplay. I wasted hours on a couple of alts standing around watching bots to try to tag various bosses, I got 1 hit in all evening and 1 soulgem. The bots are on every boss after late evening.
@Dracovar Nobody is suggesting to report everybody boss camping. If you read, there is clear advice to check to see if a player is just behaving like a bot. Daverios is right to report players indistinguishable from bots, and persistent and abusive campers are also fair game. This is not an abuse of the system imho.
Anyone can /s or move or indicate that they are behind the keyboard. It takes a human brain to judge when refusal to communicate, group up or just sit back for a spawn or 2 to let the crowd have a go turns from selfishness into griefing. That is what customer services wants us to do. By reporting a player who is not reading chat, eating and drinking, or in a bad mood and doesn't care you give them time to think. That should be unlikely but maybe they need to think about what they are doing more? Crumbs are bad for your keyboard and so is coffee
Furthermore, while boss camping may be within TOS it is not playing the game. It is self-entitlement from people who think they should have more and better loot faster than anyone else at the sacrifice of enjoyment. That is not a "play style". Therefore anyone wishing to experience game content they are paying money and time for does have the right to tell you their way of playing is more important than yours. (@Dracovar still) I do agree with most of your posts, clearly MMO is all about knowing the best spots and farming is the key to crafting for fun and profit.
The real issue here is about the bots and accepting that griefing and blocking players is not always deliberate. Courtesy and consideration is the solution, not banning players working to clean up the game. Therefore ESO customer support need this cooperation. I would suggest that while bots are on every boss your "play style" is verging on exploit riding on multiboxing bots' backs, and unresponsive selfish players who block any chance of a tag are just begging to be caught in the report crossfire... repeatedly...
Here is an example of players Dan wished me to reported who were clearly not using any automated program (like that should matter and it does not when you stand there and press 1 button) yet still having an obvious negative effect to other players.
"140414-007394"
"Just following up on this.
Player and their partner who was also reported were set up immediately behind the boss at end of cave crouched and sneak attacking and insta gibbing as soon as boss spawned like 0.03 seconds no joke, as well as laughing at and giving attitude to anyone trying to complete the cave.
Poor behavior. If they want to pay a sub to farm thats their business but they by no means needed to exploit sneak attacks with strongest attacks in game if all they wanted was kill credit each time. Insulting and giving attitude was just bad form on top of the rest."
If you do not think this is happening in every single instance of every single cave or public dungeon in the game then you seriously should log in some time..
Cherryblossom wrote: »
You sir/madam are currently my Hero of the Forum. Well Said
Here is an example of players Dan wished me to reported who were clearly not using any automated program (like that should matter and it does not when you stand there and press 1 button) yet still having an obvious negative effect to other players.
"140414-007394"
"Just following up on this.
Player and their partner who was also reported were set up immediately behind the boss at end of cave crouched and sneak attacking and insta gibbing as soon as boss spawned like 0.03 seconds no joke, as well as laughing at and giving attitude to anyone trying to complete the cave.
Poor behavior. If they want to pay a sub to farm thats their business but they by no means needed to exploit sneak attacks with strongest attacks in game if all they wanted was kill credit each time. Insulting and giving attitude was just bad form on top of the rest."
If you do not think this is happening in every single instance of every single cave or public dungeon in the game then you seriously should log in some time..
LOL! Yeah, they were GRIEFING. First of all, it doesn't say anywhere in there for you to report anyone. Second, even if it did, it would be for griefing, NOT boss farming! This is what you've failed to mention/realize this whole time and the very thing that matters most. They were purposely killing the boss so nobody else could kill it and "laughing and giving attitude to anyone trying to complete the cave." THAT isn't boss farming. THAT is griefing and is against the TOS. If anything this only bolsters and meshes with everything Jessica and the rest of us have said.
So again. show us where Zenimax told you to report people for boss farming ONLY. NOT griefing, FARMING. Show us.
Here is an example of players Dan wished me to reported who were clearly not using any automated program (like that should matter and it does not when you stand there and press 1 button) yet still having an obvious negative effect to other players.
"140414-007394"
"Just following up on this.
Player and their partner who was also reported were set up immediately behind the boss at end of cave crouched and sneak attacking and insta gibbing as soon as boss spawned like 0.03 seconds no joke, as well as laughing at and giving attitude to anyone trying to complete the cave.
Poor behavior. If they want to pay a sub to farm thats their business but they by no means needed to exploit sneak attacks with strongest attacks in game if all they wanted was kill credit each time. Insulting and giving attitude was just bad form on top of the rest."
If you do not think this is happening in every single instance of every single cave or public dungeon in the game then you seriously should log in some time..
LOL! Yeah, they were GRIEFING. First of all, it doesn't say anywhere in there for you to report anyone. Second, even if it did, it would be for griefing, NOT boss farming! This is what you've failed to mention/realize this whole time and the very thing that matters most. They were purposely killing the boss so nobody else could kill it and "laughing and giving attitude to anyone trying to complete the cave." THAT isn't boss farming. THAT is griefing and is against the TOS. If anything this only bolsters and meshes with everything Jessica and the rest of us have said.
So again. show us where Zenimax told you to report people for boss farming ONLY. NOT griefing, FARMING. Show us.
No no, I did not misunderstand anything. And I agree it if the griefing and not farming that is the problem. All I was saying is that 'acting exactly like a bot' whether you are at the keyboard or not is detrimental to others around you aka griefing.
I could dig up many a post where I say farming is fine just do it outdoors where you are NOT INTERFERING WITH OTHERS PEOPLE GAMEPLAY AND GIVING A NEGATIVE EXPERIENCE. Shockingly this is exactly how they are making the change, so I am totally on board with ZOS in this regards.
Nothing short of a direct phone call, would change my mind one way or the other as well I got my info straight from them already. .
@Dracovar Sorry but I owe you no proof. I do however refuse to fight or argue any further and apologize for getting sucked in. I did say I would try to not do so, and really desire to avoid the forums because of this kind of toxicity. I really wish there was another route for getting information on the current issues effecting me in game. All I want is to enjoy a game in peace with my friends online without being abused, molested, taunted and otherwise steamrolled by the likes of these people.
If that is not a product that Zenimax wishes to deliver I am happy to part ways but I made a compromise and a deal with the business to stick it out and I would still like to see this game become better and more enjoyable for everyone regardless of their play style and I got the distinct impression so do they.
I hope you have a pleasant weekend and it all swings your way.
FYI not sure if you seen this: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/78524/upcoming-patch-highlights-in-progress-updates/p1
Public Dungeon & Delve Boss Monsters – Also based on feedback, we will be placing a timer on how often you can get loot from public dungeon and delve boss monsters. This timer is shared across all boss monsters in public dungeons and delves. This will not impact loot timers for quest-specific monsters or overworld group bosses. Watch the patch notes for news on when this change will go live.
@Dracovar Sorry but I owe you no proof. I do however refuse to fight or argue any further and apologize for getting sucked in. I did say I would try to not do so, and really desire to avoid the forums because of this kind of toxicity. I really wish there was another route for getting information on the current issues effecting me in game. All I want is to enjoy a game in peace with my friends online without being abused, molested, taunted and otherwise steamrolled by the likes of these people.
If that is not a product that Zenimax wishes to deliver I am happy to part ways but I made a compromise and a deal with the business to stick it out and I would still like to see this game become better and more enjoyable for everyone regardless of their play style and I got the distinct impression so do they.
I hope you have a pleasant weekend and it all swings your way.
FYI not sure if you seen this: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/78524/upcoming-patch-highlights-in-progress-updates/p1
Public Dungeon & Delve Boss Monsters – Also based on feedback, we will be placing a timer on how often you can get loot from public dungeon and delve boss monsters. This timer is shared across all boss monsters in public dungeons and delves. This will not impact loot timers for quest-specific monsters or overworld group bosses. Watch the patch notes for news on when this change will go live.
And I am sorry, but if you come in here saying you're going to report everyone you see for simply farming
Peace.
Hey all,
I'm a bit 'bugged out' just now!
I have nothing against multiboxers (and I know what the term means) and I have nothing against people farming loot - even from 'bosses'.
I would not report someone for getting to a kill before me or for farming loot or for multiboxing.
I do draw the line at apparent autoing or bot usage.
Thing is, it is easy to say "Make sure the person you are reporting is actually botting before you act.". How are we to make sure though? Do we have to sit and watch someone for an hour or more before we decide this?
Case in point and why I'm 'bugged out'; I have just logged out of the game as I was put of by what I thought of as someone botting. Before I logged out though, I reported a player as it looked like the player was botting then I left the low level area I was in (Stonefalls>Inner Sea Armature).
What made me think the player was botting? There is a mob / boss in the named area called 'guardian sphere' and there were several characters that seemed to be singles (one player one character) that tried, as I did, to get a 'kill' and thus loot from the 'guardian sphere'.
The player I reported appeared to be part of a group of four or five that all moved together around the same spot. At first I thought it could just be a multiboxer and that was just unfortunate for the singles. Then I noticed that the characters that seemed to be moving as one in a group all had random letters for their names - letters that made no words and no sense. After trying several times to get the 'kill credit' and loot, I had had enough. Every single time the mob / boss appeared it was 'insta-killed' by the group. This to me looked very much like automation.
Was the player I reported in the group? I was certain this was so.
Did the group look like a legitimate multiboxer? To me, no.
Was the group automated? This, in my view, was true.
Was the apparent automation unfair to others (singles). Certainly so - it looked like no one else could get the kill.
Was I right to report? Yes, I think so.
I'm now 'bugged out' because I may be accused of false reporting and then have action on my account and this seems unfair. I'm on a limited budget but have managed to buy ESO and put money aside for monthly subs. I cannot afford to be banned and just throw that money away. I feel any cheat that spoils my, or others, enjoyment of the game (as it seems in this case) ought to have action against their account(s).
Multibox away - no problem - just have consideration for others.
Farm an area or boss - no problem - just have consideration for others.
Auto / bot and ruin the game for others - get what you deserve - a ban.
If I make a genuine error in a report I expect to be chastised accordingly. However, when I see apparent cheating or deliberate deisruption of others enjoyment of the game and report such (backed up with screen shot), I think it would be unfair to chastise me - and that goes for anyone making a valid report.
ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »thankfully you answer your question in your question. what is being argued about is the machine-gun kelly style of just point and shoot reporting. if you in good faith, report someone for potential violations and they are found to be innocent (there are methods to confirm the violations) you will not be in danger of them disciplining you. an example would be you attempting to report a gold seller site ad, and accidentally reporting the name above theirs, you probably wont see any disciplinary action. that wont apply if you do it say 50% or more of the time.
just FYI i dont think there is an auto-follow command in this game. as someone that used to dual-box i used auto follow to make it work. no auto-follow means third party program, which means they may be botting or using an unauthorized mod. dont quote me on that though...