Found the following comparison in another thread, which shows numbers of base tooltips with class passives. It also shows nicely, how jabs damage performs dependent on the amount of hits. OP pretty much builds his argument based on the assumption, that jabs normally hit 2 to 3 times on average in a fair matchup.

Here is the post:

I wanted to react a bit to the flawed math OP did in here. Maybe this will show even how flawed base mathematics is, since different classes have different builds and stamina chars in general get higher tooltips too. So even if I only show some basic math, this will not show at all how stuff impacts the game.
First of all I want to go back to the jabs tooltip:
OP here used the correct numbers of 308 damage per jab (there are 4 per channel) and 477 for a burning light proc. Therefore the max damage jabs can do is 1709 damage in the rare case of 2 burning light procs, which is the case in 6.25% if all 4 hits connect.
With base mathematics we can assume, that with 4 hits, there is a chance of approximately 31% (¾^4) to not get a proc at all, a 63% to get one proc and 6% to get 2. In average we get 75% procs with 4 hits, so the damage of the full jabs would be 4 times 308 plus 0.75 times 477.
With three hits the chance for a double burning light proc is approximately zero, since templars land normally the first 3 hits or the last 3 hits. The chance to not proc it is 42% and the for one proc 58%. So total damage is 3 times 308 plus 0.58 times 477.
With two hits the chance to not get a proc is 56%, therefore chance for one proc is 44%. Total damage would be 2 times 308 plus 0.44 times 477.
Average damage of jabs:
4 hits: 1590
3 hits: 1201
2 hits: 826
Even OP brought up examples, where he got hit in average by only 2 hits of the whole jabs channel (see the damage of 2 hits and look at tooltips of other class spammables, which looks pretty much in line with them).
Now lets look at some other skills OP mentioned for flawed comparison, since he only looked at the tooltip, but did not include passives like he did with the burning light proc.
For the weapon spammables like flurry and dizzy, I for example included the passives energized and amplitude of a sorc.
Base tooltip of dizzying swing is 976, but energized (5% more shock and physical damage) increases that to 1025 damage. Amplitude (10% more damage to full life enemies) makes that to 1127.
Same we do with flurry: base is 1000, energized adds 49 (1049) and with amplitudes its 1154.
Snipe starts at 1112, with energized its 1168 and amplitudes adds up to 1285.
Dizzy: 1127
Flurry: 1154
Snipe: 1285
Those numbers look very similar to those of 3 jabs hits, which is maybe more or less what a good templer hits on average.
I now compare also the delayed skills like blastbones and shalks and the proc skills like c-frag, spectral bow, bound armament and the molten lash with 3 stacks.
First off shalks: base tooltip is 1146, but hanks to the advanced species and piercing cold it gains additional 2% and 10% resulting in 1284 damage. Since it provides major breach too, we add another 8% (this is not totally accurate, since we actually lessen the enemies resistances by 8% and do not buff our damage. If the enemy has resistances equal to 20% mitigation, major breach actually is a 10% damage difference) to get 1387 damage.
Blastbones’ tooltip sits at 1273 damage and passively profits from 1500 penetration (2.27%). We are going to add those too (again this in only implying some damage boost, but it is not accurate. An enemy with 20% mitigation from resistances actually gets 3.4% more damage after this penetration bonus) and get 1307 damage.
C-frag’s base tooltip is 1112 damage and with a chance of 35% we get additional 33% damage (and people only going to use it then normally), which results in 1479 damage. With amplitude we get 1627 damage.
Spectral bow is just a flat 1680 damage, nightblades do not have any damage buffs, but some additional crit chances, which I do not even want to start with.
Bound armament is is 4 times 371 damage and gets with energized up to 390 per hits (1560 in total). Amplitude adds additional 151 damage, so in total 1716 damage.
Molten whip starts at 822 base damage, but three stacks grant 225 spelldamage, which results in 1068 damage. Now we add the 99% damage increase for the stacks and get 2125 damage.
For a reference, since OP mentioned onslaught wwe also look at a stamsorc’s onslaught. With energized we already sit at 1510 damage and get 1661 with amplitude. Assuming 20k resistances in cyrodiil on average (which is already kind of low for the “tank-meta”, we get an additional 43% damage increase (think about what I said about calculating penetration before, it is not done accurately here, you already see a damage difference of 25% against somebody with 20% mitigation from resistances), which would be like 2373 damage.
For better overview:
Shalks: 1387
Blastbones: 1307
C-frag: 1627
Spectral bow: 1680
Bound armament: 1716
Molten whip: 2125
Onslaught: 2373
Both the timed skills blastbones and shalks have a hight tooltip then the average jabs we can expect from a good player. Also both those skills most likely will happen at the very same time as a bursty skill like dizzy or an ultimate like onslaught. The proc skills do all more damage than what we can expect from a lucky templar with 4 hits of jabs, only the extremely lucky hit happening at the chance of 6.25% surpasses the damage of c-frag and spectral bow, but is still weaker than the others and by far weaker than the onslaught ultimate.
Conclusion:
Jabs damage is very dependent on how many hits we get. The average amount of hits probably lies between 2 and 3. On the lower end, the average damage is very similar to the damage of all other spammables, on the higher end its comes close to the delayed damage skills. In extreme cases it deals damage similar to the some of the procced skills.
I hope my wall of text showed, how flawed OPs comparison of basic math was, since he did not include other class passives (even I may have missed some). Also my mathematics still does not show the truth at all, since as said at the beginning, tooltips and mitigations vary a lot between different classes and specs.

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!

L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.

Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.

Jabs is not ok 60% dmg than any other spamable is simply not ok.. nerf it to be comparable to other spamable them Say something about L2P..

First of all, there are entirely way too many Nerf Jabs/Sweeps threads going around since Elsweyr dropped with an overwhelming amount of counter-feedback for anyone still complaining to not have had the chance to take advice from many other players (myself included). Second, there is more counter-play to Jabs/Sweeps than any other skill in the game. For some examples: Major Evasion, re-positioning behind and/or dodge-rolling, blocking, interrupting are a few. Jabs/Sweeps misses more than it hits within one channel. IF you are being tagged by all four Jabs/Sweeps from one channel, more than likely you are stationary and don't know how to maneuver around your target(s). Simply put, L2P is the last viable answer to Casuals who are unwilling to take the advice from better players...

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!

L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.

Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.

I have to ask if you don’t play anymore why does this even matter to you? Why you here? How would you even know how op jabs are since you don’t play anymore?

I stopped playing shortly after Elsweyr dropped because the game is getting stale and extremely homogenized. It doesn't matter to me, hence why my quote stated in the first line that these threads are hilarious to be still going on...I know how NOT OP Jabs are because I mained a Stamplar since Console launch and have seen all of the ups-and-downs with the Class. Now that it's finally in a good place again after years of being sub-par in comparison to other classses, everyone wants it nerfed because, simply, there are too many casual players that are used to playing P2W games instead of learning the mechanics of a game as complex as ESO's combat system and actually improving instead of expecting a W just because they feel entitled to it.

It is much easier to conterplay any other spamable 100000000% easier is counter dizzy than jabs, its nit okay have on game such toxic ability which have 60% more dmg then full cast easily 100% counter dodge skill .. evasion is stupid argument since 50% of class cannot have evasion ... or you suggested to use medium armor on mag class but Even with evasion jabs is still stronger then any spamable jabs should be stronger then other spamable but 60% is simply stupidy to much... ... its like matriach will have 60% more heal then any other heals ...

Actually its easy to get a 60% bigger healtooltip on matriarch than on other burst heals. Still nobody in here complains about matriarch heal...

Only in case when full stam templar compare healt to full stack magica sorc...

Wrong! Viable pet sorc builds can easely reach a 16k tooltip on matriarch. The average magplar has a 11-12k breath of life tooltip. Thats already 33%+ more healing. And thats mostly in the case of the sorc not using healing cps, meanwhile the templar does. If the sorc really wants to push his healing numbers, he could reach 20k+ heals, which ia more than your 60%. And thats compared sorc matriarch heal with the previous biggest burst heal in the game. Bow think about all the other class burst heals, which are lower than breath of life. The sorc can like this get 100% bigger heals than most classes.

Btw those are ingame numbers and not just base tooltips. Already said, that base tooltips are nir applicable to the game just like this. Same as jabs in game does not do as much damage as you claim. Damage numbers of jabs in game are on dizzy level and nowhere near dragon leap.

Jabs calculation is not based on base tolltip, find the topic about Stamina spamable its comparable of all spamable... ofcourse u can also build necro alfiq two different monster set to support magica and slot all magica increase ability and then u can have 60% bigger toooltip to standard templar.. but its non sense, yes matriarch is stronger heal but reasonable not 60% if jabs have only 30% more dmg then others spamable then it will be okay.. but currently is 60% ok for jabs best case dizzy on magsorc, avarage number is Even more then 60% i understand u protect your one button godplar, but this is simply not balanced and is toxic for the future of the game and should be adressed and fixed... btw honor od the dead is better for Pvp due to refund...

You still ride the same train of thoughts, that jabs actually hit 60% harder than dizzy. It just does not in PvP. We tried explaining you why jabs needs a higher base tooltip and we tried explaining to you, that it does not translate 1 to 1 to its actual damage in PvP. I can tell you again, that average damage numbers of jabs are pretty much the same as dizzying swing and nowhere near leap. But you just ignore it.

Many people told you to l2p, play the class yourself and learn how jabs play out in the end. You also will learn quite a bit how to counter the skill by doing so. Untill you did that, your crying wont be more than some mimimi noise to the ears of the veteran and actual good players.

About the matriarch heal: the heals is like 40% stronger than breath of life (or honor the dead) by simply having a viable petsorc build. No investing into cps, no just max out magicka, a simple pet sorc build. And thats compared to a magplar build, who has some cps set for increased healing. But again, you just do not listen...

Because u ignore facts and correct numbers based on calculation how each skill works ...jabs do not need to have 60% more dmg.
Only defending one button spam class probably because u do not have any other..

You know what...post the actual numbers and show is this 60% increase against which skills you're referring to. Getting tired of your lazy arguments with zero supporting evidence. You just cry to cry.
What class do you play?
How long have you played?
What gear and skills do you use?
Are you solo, group, in CP or Non-CP cyro, BGs?

F.e this link https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6495858#Comment_6495858

So Martini did a comparison in PTS. However, failed to include the following:
1. Which stationary PVE dummy were these tests performed on.
2. No mitigation was taken into account with calculations (for any skill).
3. If tester is calculating BL, should have also calculated LA-weaving for other Instant-cast skills under 1.0s GCD. Didn't by the way...
4. OP said he tested numbers himself. However, directly compared the added tool-tip of Jabs to the equal out the exact numbers of "testing"...

Albeit I will not sit here and deny his actual calculation numbers, I fail to see the validity in the testing as it is not done in actual combat in a PVP setting.

To be honest, doesn't look like Martini actually "Tested" any of these skills. Rather just logged into PTS on each class, equipped the same gear and uploaded an Excel snip-it of each skill's Tool-Tip added up...

If these skills were all tested for comparison, he would have posted a full parse of each skill with combat metrics from the game itself. This was not done.

Generally comparing numbers even on same builds doesnt make sense, since builds and stats are different between classes.
Also its clearly just reading numbers and not how skills effectively perform in a fight. Additionally, we do not know, if he only slotted those skills or if the skills were inserted into a typical skillbar, which naturally effects tooltips too.

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!

L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.

Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.

Jabs is not ok 60% dmg than any other spamable is simply not ok.. nerf it to be comparable to other spamable them Say something about L2P..

First of all, there are entirely way too many Nerf Jabs/Sweeps threads going around since Elsweyr dropped with an overwhelming amount of counter-feedback for anyone still complaining to not have had the chance to take advice from many other players (myself included). Second, there is more counter-play to Jabs/Sweeps than any other skill in the game. For some examples: Major Evasion, re-positioning behind and/or dodge-rolling, blocking, interrupting are a few. Jabs/Sweeps misses more than it hits within one channel. IF you are being tagged by all four Jabs/Sweeps from one channel, more than likely you are stationary and don't know how to maneuver around your target(s). Simply put, L2P is the last viable answer to Casuals who are unwilling to take the advice from better players...

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!

L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.

Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.

I have to ask if you don’t play anymore why does this even matter to you? Why you here? How would you even know how op jabs are since you don’t play anymore?

I stopped playing shortly after Elsweyr dropped because the game is getting stale and extremely homogenized. It doesn't matter to me, hence why my quote stated in the first line that these threads are hilarious to be still going on...I know how NOT OP Jabs are because I mained a Stamplar since Console launch and have seen all of the ups-and-downs with the Class. Now that it's finally in a good place again after years of being sub-par in comparison to other classses, everyone wants it nerfed because, simply, there are too many casual players that are used to playing P2W games instead of learning the mechanics of a game as complex as ESO's combat system and actually improving instead of expecting a W just because they feel entitled to it.

It is much easier to conterplay any other spamable 100000000% easier is counter dizzy than jabs, its nit okay have on game such toxic ability which have 60% more dmg then full cast easily 100% counter dodge skill .. evasion is stupid argument since 50% of class cannot have evasion ... or you suggested to use medium armor on mag class but Even with evasion jabs is still stronger then any spamable jabs should be stronger then other spamable but 60% is simply stupidy to much... ... its like matriach will have 60% more heal then any other heals ...

Actually its easy to get a 60% bigger healtooltip on matriarch than on other burst heals. Still nobody in here complains about matriarch heal...

Only in case when full stam templar compare healt to full stack magica sorc...

Wrong! Viable pet sorc builds can easely reach a 16k tooltip on matriarch. The average magplar has a 11-12k breath of life tooltip. Thats already 33%+ more healing. And thats mostly in the case of the sorc not using healing cps, meanwhile the templar does. If the sorc really wants to push his healing numbers, he could reach 20k+ heals, which ia more than your 60%. And thats compared sorc matriarch heal with the previous biggest burst heal in the game. Bow think about all the other class burst heals, which are lower than breath of life. The sorc can like this get 100% bigger heals than most classes.

Btw those are ingame numbers and not just base tooltips. Already said, that base tooltips are nir applicable to the game just like this. Same as jabs in game does not do as much damage as you claim. Damage numbers of jabs in game are on dizzy level and nowhere near dragon leap.

Jabs calculation is not based on base tolltip, find the topic about Stamina spamable its comparable of all spamable... ofcourse u can also build necro alfiq two different monster set to support magica and slot all magica increase ability and then u can have 60% bigger toooltip to standard templar.. but its non sense, yes matriarch is stronger heal but reasonable not 60% if jabs have only 30% more dmg then others spamable then it will be okay.. but currently is 60% ok for jabs best case dizzy on magsorc, avarage number is Even more then 60% i understand u protect your one button godplar, but this is simply not balanced and is toxic for the future of the game and should be adressed and fixed... btw honor od the dead is better for Pvp due to refund...

You still ride the same train of thoughts, that jabs actually hit 60% harder than dizzy. It just does not in PvP. We tried explaining you why jabs needs a higher base tooltip and we tried explaining to you, that it does not translate 1 to 1 to its actual damage in PvP. I can tell you again, that average damage numbers of jabs are pretty much the same as dizzying swing and nowhere near leap. But you just ignore it.

Many people told you to l2p, play the class yourself and learn how jabs play out in the end. You also will learn quite a bit how to counter the skill by doing so. Untill you did that, your crying wont be more than some mimimi noise to the ears of the veteran and actual good players.

About the matriarch heal: the heals is like 40% stronger than breath of life (or honor the dead) by simply having a viable petsorc build. No investing into cps, no just max out magicka, a simple pet sorc build. And thats compared to a magplar build, who has some cps set for increased healing. But again, you just do not listen...

Because u ignore facts and correct numbers based on calculation how each skill works ...jabs do not need to have 60% more dmg.
Only defending one button spam class probably because u do not have any other..

You know what...post the actual numbers and show is this 60% increase against which skills you're referring to. Getting tired of your lazy arguments with zero supporting evidence. You just cry to cry.
What class do you play?
How long have you played?
What gear and skills do you use?
Are you solo, group, in CP or Non-CP cyro, BGs?

F.e this link https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6495858#Comment_6495858

So Martini did a comparison in PTS. However, failed to include the following:
1. Which stationary PVE dummy were these tests performed on.
2. No mitigation was taken into account with calculations (for any skill).
3. If tester is calculating BL, should have also calculated LA-weaving for other Instant-cast skills under 1.0s GCD. Didn't by the way...
4. OP said he tested numbers himself. However, directly compared the added tool-tip of Jabs to the equal out the exact numbers of "testing"...

Albeit I will not sit here and deny his actual calculation numbers, I fail to see the validity in the testing as it is not done in actual combat in a PVP setting.

To be honest, doesn't look like Martini actually "Tested" any of these skills. Rather just logged into PTS on each class, equipped the same gear and uploaded an Excel snip-it of each skill's Tool-Tip added up...

If these skills were all tested for comparison, he would have posted a full parse of each skill with combat metrics from the game itself. This was not done.

1. You need to compare skills on same target to be able to have comparable results pve stationar dummy without any mutigation is best example
2. Only unique mittigation which is exclusive for jabs is evasion which is not accesible by 50% of classs if you want to recomend go as mag class in medium to gain access to evasion ....
3. LA is question in case of instant skill in case or dizzy u will have one extra la in 10 atempt ...so it will change jabs to 60% more dmg compare to dizzy. But Even in this case 100% accurate la compare to one button hit ....

test is valid numbers are valid.

Just give up, bruh. There wasn't even any "Testing" done. OP just took screenshots of each skill's Tool-Tip and called it testing. Also, LA weaving with D-Swing would more than put it closer to the "Tool-tip" of Jabs, with or without BL proc.
To test a skill with a passive included is biased in-itself. People cry about snare on Jabs, but don't cry about DK's Warmth passive giving similar snare on multiple active skills in Ardent Flame tree.

Context goes a long way in balancing, and as far as I can tell you have given zero viable context in your arguments. You simply cry Nerf because you fail to understand the fundamentals of the game and refuse to practice better mechanics in your own gameplay.

This game has become littered with entitled, sub-par casuals who cry Wolf when they don't get their way. Hence why I decided to no longer play actively, among many other veteran players.

I asked you multiple questions about your class, play-style, level of commitment to the game, time played, etc. None of which you have responded to which shows that you're biased and blinded by self entitlement, and you just hop on the Nerf bandwagon using other peoples' attempts at disproving the current validity of ONE skill in the game.

Your profile suggests that you're still "new" to the game, as only joining in October 5 months ago. I will admit, I didn't join the forums until over a year after I started playing, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt. However, 5 months of gameplay really isn't a long time to learn all of the metrics and mechanics for all classes in PVP. PVP has a HUGE learning curve and most players won't get this until 1 year+ into solid PVP play.

I don't know...you're arguing about a game that you know very little about. At least get educated before you make bold statements.

Joinovikova wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!

L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.

Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.

Jabs is not ok 60% dmg than any other spamable is simply not ok.. nerf it to be comparable to other spamable them Say something about L2P..

First of all, there are entirely way too many Nerf Jabs/Sweeps threads going around since Elsweyr dropped with an overwhelming amount of counter-feedback for anyone still complaining to not have had the chance to take advice from many other players (myself included). Second, there is more counter-play to Jabs/Sweeps than any other skill in the game. For some examples: Major Evasion, re-positioning behind and/or dodge-rolling, blocking, interrupting are a few. Jabs/Sweeps misses more than it hits within one channel. IF you are being tagged by all four Jabs/Sweeps from one channel, more than likely you are stationary and don't know how to maneuver around your target(s). Simply put, L2P is the last viable answer to Casuals who are unwilling to take the advice from better players...

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!

L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.

Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.

I have to ask if you don’t play anymore why does this even matter to you? Why you here? How would you even know how op jabs are since you don’t play anymore?

I stopped playing shortly after Elsweyr dropped because the game is getting stale and extremely homogenized. It doesn't matter to me, hence why my quote stated in the first line that these threads are hilarious to be still going on...I know how NOT OP Jabs are because I mained a Stamplar since Console launch and have seen all of the ups-and-downs with the Class. Now that it's finally in a good place again after years of being sub-par in comparison to other classses, everyone wants it nerfed because, simply, there are too many casual players that are used to playing P2W games instead of learning the mechanics of a game as complex as ESO's combat system and actually improving instead of expecting a W just because they feel entitled to it.

It is much easier to conterplay any other spamable 100000000% easier is counter dizzy than jabs, its nit okay have on game such toxic ability which have 60% more dmg then full cast easily 100% counter dodge skill .. evasion is stupid argument since 50% of class cannot have evasion ... or you suggested to use medium armor on mag class but Even with evasion jabs is still stronger then any spamable jabs should be stronger then other spamable but 60% is simply stupidy to much... ... its like matriach will have 60% more heal then any other heals ...

Actually its easy to get a 60% bigger healtooltip on matriarch than on other burst heals. Still nobody in here complains about matriarch heal...

Only in case when full stam templar compare healt to full stack magica sorc...

Wrong! Viable pet sorc builds can easely reach a 16k tooltip on matriarch. The average magplar has a 11-12k breath of life tooltip. Thats already 33%+ more healing. And thats mostly in the case of the sorc not using healing cps, meanwhile the templar does. If the sorc really wants to push his healing numbers, he could reach 20k+ heals, which ia more than your 60%. And thats compared sorc matriarch heal with the previous biggest burst heal in the game. Bow think about all the other class burst heals, which are lower than breath of life. The sorc can like this get 100% bigger heals than most classes.

Btw those are ingame numbers and not just base tooltips. Already said, that base tooltips are nir applicable to the game just like this. Same as jabs in game does not do as much damage as you claim. Damage numbers of jabs in game are on dizzy level and nowhere near dragon leap.

Jabs calculation is not based on base tolltip, find the topic about Stamina spamable its comparable of all spamable... ofcourse u can also build necro alfiq two different monster set to support magica and slot all magica increase ability and then u can have 60% bigger toooltip to standard templar.. but its non sense, yes matriarch is stronger heal but reasonable not 60% if jabs have only 30% more dmg then others spamable then it will be okay.. but currently is 60% ok for jabs best case dizzy on magsorc, avarage number is Even more then 60% i understand u protect your one button godplar, but this is simply not balanced and is toxic for the future of the game and should be adressed and fixed... btw honor od the dead is better for Pvp due to refund...

You still ride the same train of thoughts, that jabs actually hit 60% harder than dizzy. It just does not in PvP. We tried explaining you why jabs needs a higher base tooltip and we tried explaining to you, that it does not translate 1 to 1 to its actual damage in PvP. I can tell you again, that average damage numbers of jabs are pretty much the same as dizzying swing and nowhere near leap. But you just ignore it.

Many people told you to l2p, play the class yourself and learn how jabs play out in the end. You also will learn quite a bit how to counter the skill by doing so. Untill you did that, your crying wont be more than some mimimi noise to the ears of the veteran and actual good players.

About the matriarch heal: the heals is like 40% stronger than breath of life (or honor the dead) by simply having a viable petsorc build. No investing into cps, no just max out magicka, a simple pet sorc build. And thats compared to a magplar build, who has some cps set for increased healing. But again, you just do not listen...

Because u ignore facts and correct numbers based on calculation how each skill works ...jabs do not need to have 60% more dmg.
Only defending one button spam class probably because u do not have any other..

You know what...post the actual numbers and show is this 60% increase against which skills you're referring to. Getting tired of your lazy arguments with zero supporting evidence. You just cry to cry.
What class do you play?
How long have you played?
What gear and skills do you use?
Are you solo, group, in CP or Non-CP cyro, BGs?

F.e this link https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6495858#Comment_6495858

"with 1 proc of burning light" so it adds in factors while ignoring every other factor such as classes with major fracture, targets having major evasion or minor evasion. It also takes away where other classes perform better in some areas where others dont to just focus on a spammable ignoring the full picture. It also ignores battle spirit which reduces the gap.

So my tooltip of jabs is 18380 landing all 4. Same build, Dizzy is 14541. Battlespirit makes Jabs 9190, Dizzy 7270. So I am at jabs being 21% stronger. Major evasion then has jabs at 6892.5 so 5.2% weaker than dizzy. And thats it going spammable to spammable. You could argue I am doing the same by counting major evasion, and that would be part of the point. All things are not equal but I would totally accept jabes being nerfed by 21% then being considered single target with splash.

You throw in burning light, and you need to throw in every other class passive and weapon passive. There might be an argument that burning light needs nerfed but someone will really have to get into all the other passives collectively to show that.

The numers take to account class passive fracture is accesible by all stam with sheild and one hand so its not such unique

Pls reconsider posting such non-sense. Yes major fracture is accesible for every stam build by using ransack, but nowhere near every stam build uses snb and even less builds with snb run ransack.

If you compare those things, major fracture and other debuffs/buffs need to be only used, if a class gets the debuff in the toolkit of a typical build, so basically stamdks and wardens. Otherwise you could argue, that everyone gets 8% damage modifier from slimecraw, and wardens would fall behind in such dumb assumptions. So mahor fracture is pretty much unique to wardens and dks, since ransack is not a widely used skill in pvp.

Your whole thread loses credibility, if your argumentation goes on like that.

Joinovikova wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!

L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.

Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.

Jabs is not ok 60% dmg than any other spamable is simply not ok.. nerf it to be comparable to other spamable them Say something about L2P..

First of all, there are entirely way too many Nerf Jabs/Sweeps threads going around since Elsweyr dropped with an overwhelming amount of counter-feedback for anyone still complaining to not have had the chance to take advice from many other players (myself included). Second, there is more counter-play to Jabs/Sweeps than any other skill in the game. For some examples: Major Evasion, re-positioning behind and/or dodge-rolling, blocking, interrupting are a few. Jabs/Sweeps misses more than it hits within one channel. IF you are being tagged by all four Jabs/Sweeps from one channel, more than likely you are stationary and don't know how to maneuver around your target(s). Simply put, L2P is the last viable answer to Casuals who are unwilling to take the advice from better players...

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!

L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.

Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.

I have to ask if you don’t play anymore why does this even matter to you? Why you here? How would you even know how op jabs are since you don’t play anymore?

I stopped playing shortly after Elsweyr dropped because the game is getting stale and extremely homogenized. It doesn't matter to me, hence why my quote stated in the first line that these threads are hilarious to be still going on...I know how NOT OP Jabs are because I mained a Stamplar since Console launch and have seen all of the ups-and-downs with the Class. Now that it's finally in a good place again after years of being sub-par in comparison to other classses, everyone wants it nerfed because, simply, there are too many casual players that are used to playing P2W games instead of learning the mechanics of a game as complex as ESO's combat system and actually improving instead of expecting a W just because they feel entitled to it.

It is much easier to conterplay any other spamable 100000000% easier is counter dizzy than jabs, its nit okay have on game such toxic ability which have 60% more dmg then full cast easily 100% counter dodge skill .. evasion is stupid argument since 50% of class cannot have evasion ... or you suggested to use medium armor on mag class but Even with evasion jabs is still stronger then any spamable jabs should be stronger then other spamable but 60% is simply stupidy to much... ... its like matriach will have 60% more heal then any other heals ...

Actually its easy to get a 60% bigger healtooltip on matriarch than on other burst heals. Still nobody in here complains about matriarch heal...

Only in case when full stam templar compare healt to full stack magica sorc...

Wrong! Viable pet sorc builds can easely reach a 16k tooltip on matriarch. The average magplar has a 11-12k breath of life tooltip. Thats already 33%+ more healing. And thats mostly in the case of the sorc not using healing cps, meanwhile the templar does. If the sorc really wants to push his healing numbers, he could reach 20k+ heals, which ia more than your 60%. And thats compared sorc matriarch heal with the previous biggest burst heal in the game. Bow think about all the other class burst heals, which are lower than breath of life. The sorc can like this get 100% bigger heals than most classes.

Btw those are ingame numbers and not just base tooltips. Already said, that base tooltips are nir applicable to the game just like this. Same as jabs in game does not do as much damage as you claim. Damage numbers of jabs in game are on dizzy level and nowhere near dragon leap.

Jabs calculation is not based on base tolltip, find the topic about Stamina spamable its comparable of all spamable... ofcourse u can also build necro alfiq two different monster set to support magica and slot all magica increase ability and then u can have 60% bigger toooltip to standard templar.. but its non sense, yes matriarch is stronger heal but reasonable not 60% if jabs have only 30% more dmg then others spamable then it will be okay.. but currently is 60% ok for jabs best case dizzy on magsorc, avarage number is Even more then 60% i understand u protect your one button godplar, but this is simply not balanced and is toxic for the future of the game and should be adressed and fixed... btw honor od the dead is better for Pvp due to refund...

You still ride the same train of thoughts, that jabs actually hit 60% harder than dizzy. It just does not in PvP. We tried explaining you why jabs needs a higher base tooltip and we tried explaining to you, that it does not translate 1 to 1 to its actual damage in PvP. I can tell you again, that average damage numbers of jabs are pretty much the same as dizzying swing and nowhere near leap. But you just ignore it.

Many people told you to l2p, play the class yourself and learn how jabs play out in the end. You also will learn quite a bit how to counter the skill by doing so. Untill you did that, your crying wont be more than some mimimi noise to the ears of the veteran and actual good players.

About the matriarch heal: the heals is like 40% stronger than breath of life (or honor the dead) by simply having a viable petsorc build. No investing into cps, no just max out magicka, a simple pet sorc build. And thats compared to a magplar build, who has some cps set for increased healing. But again, you just do not listen...

Because u ignore facts and correct numbers based on calculation how each skill works ...jabs do not need to have 60% more dmg.
Only defending one button spam class probably because u do not have any other..

You know what...post the actual numbers and show is this 60% increase against which skills you're referring to. Getting tired of your lazy arguments with zero supporting evidence. You just cry to cry.
What class do you play?
How long have you played?
What gear and skills do you use?
Are you solo, group, in CP or Non-CP cyro, BGs?

F.e this link https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6495858#Comment_6495858

That thread was called buff other spammables and not "nerf jabs". And also in original post it is mentioned that reasoning behind buff of dizzy and flurry was passives attached to jabs, not jabs themselves. Given that already ZOS "buffed" dizzy to compensate for off-balance, no need to touch jabs and dizzy at all right now. Buff flurry, make something with class projectile spammables so they won't be a trash against wings/shimmering/bol etc. No more nerfs plz.

One nerf needed jabs must be destroy ... templar must suffer but jabs is still far ahead other spamable... from my point of view ..

This is why ZOS has not nerfed Jabs. Because of posts like this from people like you and your "opinion". It is a bias, and that does not entitle you to demand unwarranted changes. Just because you're frustrated does not mean everything should change in your favor. Many players have the same bias about other classes as well, but the difference is they play those other classes to learn the mechanics and how to counter them.

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!

L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.

Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.

Jabs is not ok 60% dmg than any other spamable is simply not ok.. nerf it to be comparable to other spamable them Say something about L2P..

First of all, there are entirely way too many Nerf Jabs/Sweeps threads going around since Elsweyr dropped with an overwhelming amount of counter-feedback for anyone still complaining to not have had the chance to take advice from many other players (myself included). Second, there is more counter-play to Jabs/Sweeps than any other skill in the game. For some examples: Major Evasion, re-positioning behind and/or dodge-rolling, blocking, interrupting are a few. Jabs/Sweeps misses more than it hits within one channel. IF you are being tagged by all four Jabs/Sweeps from one channel, more than likely you are stationary and don't know how to maneuver around your target(s). Simply put, L2P is the last viable answer to Casuals who are unwilling to take the advice from better players...

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!

L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.

Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.

I have to ask if you don’t play anymore why does this even matter to you? Why you here? How would you even know how op jabs are since you don’t play anymore?

I stopped playing shortly after Elsweyr dropped because the game is getting stale and extremely homogenized. It doesn't matter to me, hence why my quote stated in the first line that these threads are hilarious to be still going on...I know how NOT OP Jabs are because I mained a Stamplar since Console launch and have seen all of the ups-and-downs with the Class. Now that it's finally in a good place again after years of being sub-par in comparison to other classses, everyone wants it nerfed because, simply, there are too many casual players that are used to playing P2W games instead of learning the mechanics of a game as complex as ESO's combat system and actually improving instead of expecting a W just because they feel entitled to it.

It is much easier to conterplay any other spamable 100000000% easier is counter dizzy than jabs, its nit okay have on game such toxic ability which have 60% more dmg then full cast easily 100% counter dodge skill .. evasion is stupid argument since 50% of class cannot have evasion ... or you suggested to use medium armor on mag class but Even with evasion jabs is still stronger then any spamable jabs should be stronger then other spamable but 60% is simply stupidy to much... ... its like matriach will have 60% more heal then any other heals ...

Actually its easy to get a 60% bigger healtooltip on matriarch than on other burst heals. Still nobody in here complains about matriarch heal...

Only in case when full stam templar compare healt to full stack magica sorc...

Wrong! Viable pet sorc builds can easely reach a 16k tooltip on matriarch. The average magplar has a 11-12k breath of life tooltip. Thats already 33%+ more healing. And thats mostly in the case of the sorc not using healing cps, meanwhile the templar does. If the sorc really wants to push his healing numbers, he could reach 20k+ heals, which ia more than your 60%. And thats compared sorc matriarch heal with the previous biggest burst heal in the game. Bow think about all the other class burst heals, which are lower than breath of life. The sorc can like this get 100% bigger heals than most classes.

Btw those are ingame numbers and not just base tooltips. Already said, that base tooltips are nir applicable to the game just like this. Same as jabs in game does not do as much damage as you claim. Damage numbers of jabs in game are on dizzy level and nowhere near dragon leap.

Jabs calculation is not based on base tolltip, find the topic about Stamina spamable its comparable of all spamable... ofcourse u can also build necro alfiq two different monster set to support magica and slot all magica increase ability and then u can have 60% bigger toooltip to standard templar.. but its non sense, yes matriarch is stronger heal but reasonable not 60% if jabs have only 30% more dmg then others spamable then it will be okay.. but currently is 60% ok for jabs best case dizzy on magsorc, avarage number is Even more then 60% i understand u protect your one button godplar, but this is simply not balanced and is toxic for the future of the game and should be adressed and fixed... btw honor od the dead is better for Pvp due to refund...

You still ride the same train of thoughts, that jabs actually hit 60% harder than dizzy. It just does not in PvP. We tried explaining you why jabs needs a higher base tooltip and we tried explaining to you, that it does not translate 1 to 1 to its actual damage in PvP. I can tell you again, that average damage numbers of jabs are pretty much the same as dizzying swing and nowhere near leap. But you just ignore it.

Many people told you to l2p, play the class yourself and learn how jabs play out in the end. You also will learn quite a bit how to counter the skill by doing so. Untill you did that, your crying wont be more than some mimimi noise to the ears of the veteran and actual good players.

About the matriarch heal: the heals is like 40% stronger than breath of life (or honor the dead) by simply having a viable petsorc build. No investing into cps, no just max out magicka, a simple pet sorc build. And thats compared to a magplar build, who has some cps set for increased healing. But again, you just do not listen...

Because u ignore facts and correct numbers based on calculation how each skill works ...jabs do not need to have 60% more dmg.
Only defending one button spam class probably because u do not have any other..

You know what...post the actual numbers and show is this 60% increase against which skills you're referring to. Getting tired of your lazy arguments with zero supporting evidence. You just cry to cry.
What class do you play?
How long have you played?
What gear and skills do you use?
Are you solo, group, in CP or Non-CP cyro, BGs?

F.e this link https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6495858#Comment_6495858

That thread was called buff other spammables and not "nerf jabs". And also in original post it is mentioned that reasoning behind buff of dizzy and flurry was passives attached to jabs, not jabs themselves. Given that already ZOS "buffed" dizzy to compensate for off-balance, no need to touch jabs and dizzy at all right now. Buff flurry, make something with class projectile spammables so they won't be a trash against wings/shimmering/bol etc. No more nerfs plz.

One nerf needed jabs must be destroy ... templar must suffer but jabs is still far ahead other spamable... from my point of view ..

This is why ZOS has not nerfed Jabs. Because of posts like this from people like you and your "opinion". It is a bias, and that does not entitle you to demand unwarranted changes. Just because you're frustrated does not mean everything should change in your favor. Many players have the same bias about other classes as well, but the difference is they play those other classes to learn the mechanics and how to counter them.

I asked fornerf because it op and ok there is two options buff others or nerf one results is same.. you may dissagree i understamd somone who have jabs in his nice will protect jabs with his/ her life.. and jabs is stupidly op .. indeed i also sometime play templar but... this need to be neefed ...

I disagree. Jabs being OP is your opinion. You say this because you feel your tool-kit (which we still don't know what you're playing....) is underwhelming. Most classes may seem under performing against specific skills or classes because people simply do not know how other classes work in order to counter it, or they're really just not that good to begin with.

I main a Templar, so yes I will defend it. Reason is because the entire class has been so undeniably gutted over the past 5 years that it's really an accomplishment of ZOS to remove so much class identity from a core class! However, with all that being said I also played Stamblade, StamDK, Magplar, MagDK, Stamden all quite equally to how much time I spend on my Stamplar (before I left ESO - which was maybe a couple of weeks into Elswyr) and I do just fine with all of those classes, if not better! I find StamDK to be easy-mode compared to my Stamplar. Better healing, better burst, better defense and great combos! I even turned my MagDK into a Bomber and do great in open Cyro.

It's all about learning the game and playing it at a higher level than you currently are. Once you get to higher level MMR BG's, consistently rank tops in Cyrodiil and/or play progressive Trials (if that's your cup of tea), then you can start giving feedback about the game's inconsistencies. But to be a newer player and just demand demand demand because you feel it's unfair that you're not winning is a bold-faced fantasy that is becoming more and more common among gamers.

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!

L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.

Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.

Jabs is not ok 60% dmg than any other spamable is simply not ok.. nerf it to be comparable to other spamable them Say something about L2P..

First of all, there are entirely way too many Nerf Jabs/Sweeps threads going around since Elsweyr dropped with an overwhelming amount of counter-feedback for anyone still complaining to not have had the chance to take advice from many other players (myself included). Second, there is more counter-play to Jabs/Sweeps than any other skill in the game. For some examples: Major Evasion, re-positioning behind and/or dodge-rolling, blocking, interrupting are a few. Jabs/Sweeps misses more than it hits within one channel. IF you are being tagged by all four Jabs/Sweeps from one channel, more than likely you are stationary and don't know how to maneuver around your target(s). Simply put, L2P is the last viable answer to Casuals who are unwilling to take the advice from better players...

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!

L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.

Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.

I have to ask if you don’t play anymore why does this even matter to you? Why you here? How would you even know how op jabs are since you don’t play anymore?

I stopped playing shortly after Elsweyr dropped because the game is getting stale and extremely homogenized. It doesn't matter to me, hence why my quote stated in the first line that these threads are hilarious to be still going on...I know how NOT OP Jabs are because I mained a Stamplar since Console launch and have seen all of the ups-and-downs with the Class. Now that it's finally in a good place again after years of being sub-par in comparison to other classses, everyone wants it nerfed because, simply, there are too many casual players that are used to playing P2W games instead of learning the mechanics of a game as complex as ESO's combat system and actually improving instead of expecting a W just because they feel entitled to it.

It is much easier to conterplay any other spamable 100000000% easier is counter dizzy than jabs, its nit okay have on game such toxic ability which have 60% more dmg then full cast easily 100% counter dodge skill .. evasion is stupid argument since 50% of class cannot have evasion ... or you suggested to use medium armor on mag class but Even with evasion jabs is still stronger then any spamable jabs should be stronger then other spamable but 60% is simply stupidy to much... ... its like matriach will have 60% more heal then any other heals ...

Actually its easy to get a 60% bigger healtooltip on matriarch than on other burst heals. Still nobody in here complains about matriarch heal...

Only in case when full stam templar compare healt to full stack magica sorc...

Wrong! Viable pet sorc builds can easely reach a 16k tooltip on matriarch. The average magplar has a 11-12k breath of life tooltip. Thats already 33%+ more healing. And thats mostly in the case of the sorc not using healing cps, meanwhile the templar does. If the sorc really wants to push his healing numbers, he could reach 20k+ heals, which ia more than your 60%. And thats compared sorc matriarch heal with the previous biggest burst heal in the game. Bow think about all the other class burst heals, which are lower than breath of life. The sorc can like this get 100% bigger heals than most classes.

Btw those are ingame numbers and not just base tooltips. Already said, that base tooltips are nir applicable to the game just like this. Same as jabs in game does not do as much damage as you claim. Damage numbers of jabs in game are on dizzy level and nowhere near dragon leap.

Jabs calculation is not based on base tolltip, find the topic about Stamina spamable its comparable of all spamable... ofcourse u can also build necro alfiq two different monster set to support magica and slot all magica increase ability and then u can have 60% bigger toooltip to standard templar.. but its non sense, yes matriarch is stronger heal but reasonable not 60% if jabs have only 30% more dmg then others spamable then it will be okay.. but currently is 60% ok for jabs best case dizzy on magsorc, avarage number is Even more then 60% i understand u protect your one button godplar, but this is simply not balanced and is toxic for the future of the game and should be adressed and fixed... btw honor od the dead is better for Pvp due to refund...

You still ride the same train of thoughts, that jabs actually hit 60% harder than dizzy. It just does not in PvP. We tried explaining you why jabs needs a higher base tooltip and we tried explaining to you, that it does not translate 1 to 1 to its actual damage in PvP. I can tell you again, that average damage numbers of jabs are pretty much the same as dizzying swing and nowhere near leap. But you just ignore it.

Many people told you to l2p, play the class yourself and learn how jabs play out in the end. You also will learn quite a bit how to counter the skill by doing so. Untill you did that, your crying wont be more than some mimimi noise to the ears of the veteran and actual good players.

About the matriarch heal: the heals is like 40% stronger than breath of life (or honor the dead) by simply having a viable petsorc build. No investing into cps, no just max out magicka, a simple pet sorc build. And thats compared to a magplar build, who has some cps set for increased healing. But again, you just do not listen...

Because u ignore facts and correct numbers based on calculation how each skill works ...jabs do not need to have 60% more dmg.
Only defending one button spam class probably because u do not have any other..

You know what...post the actual numbers and show is this 60% increase against which skills you're referring to. Getting tired of your lazy arguments with zero supporting evidence. You just cry to cry.
What class do you play?
How long have you played?
What gear and skills do you use?
Are you solo, group, in CP or Non-CP cyro, BGs?

F.e this link https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6495858#Comment_6495858

That thread was called buff other spammables and not "nerf jabs". And also in original post it is mentioned that reasoning behind buff of dizzy and flurry was passives attached to jabs, not jabs themselves. Given that already ZOS "buffed" dizzy to compensate for off-balance, no need to touch jabs and dizzy at all right now. Buff flurry, make something with class projectile spammables so they won't be a trash against wings/shimmering/bol etc. No more nerfs plz.

One nerf needed jabs must be destroy ... templar must suffer but jabs is still far ahead other spamable... from my point of view ..

This is why ZOS has not nerfed Jabs. Because of posts like this from people like you and your "opinion". It is a bias, and that does not entitle you to demand unwarranted changes. Just because you're frustrated does not mean everything should change in your favor. Many players have the same bias about other classes as well, but the difference is they play those other classes to learn the mechanics and how to counter them.

I asked fornerf because it op and ok there is two options buff others or nerf one results is same.. you may dissagree i understamd somone who have jabs in his nice will protect jabs with his/ her life.. and jabs is stupidly op .. indeed i also sometime play templar but... this need to be neefed ...

I disagree. Jabs being OP is your opinion. You say this because you feel your tool-kit (which we still don't know what you're playing....) is underwhelming. Most classes may seem under performing against specific skills or classes because people simply do not know how other classes work in order to counter it, or they're really just not that good to begin with.

I main a Templar, so yes I will defend it. Reason is because the entire class has been so undeniably gutted over the past 5 years that it's really an accomplishment of ZOS to remove so much class identity from a core class! However, with all that being said I also played Stamblade, StamDK, Magplar, MagDK, Stamden all quite equally to how much time I spend on my Stamplar (before I left ESO - which was maybe a couple of weeks into Elswyr) and I do just fine with all of those classes, if not better! I find StamDK to be easy-mode compared to my Stamplar. Better healing, better burst, better defense and great combos! I even turned my MagDK into a Bomber and do great in open Cyro.

It's all about learning the game and playing it at a higher level than you currently are. Once you get to higher level MMR BG's, consistently rank tops in Cyrodiil and/or play progressive Trials (if that's your cup of tea), then you can start giving feedback about the game's inconsistencies. But to be a newer player and just demand demand demand because you feel it's unfair that you're not winning is a bold-faced fantasy that is becoming more and more common among gamers.

Lol how you can know you are on higher mmr?? ... that i ignore your question its not mean i new just non ineterested to answer to some noob who lost arguments and try to strike discuters with personal attack like 5year child... . before reset mmr i have to wait for bg 20-30 mins and meet in every bg ussuly same people snd you was not in that companies.. ... deathmatch like 15 mins with few kills so that reason i seee sweep as best ulti because is best on keepimg presure ... i have nearly all classs ( ecept stamnecro) spent more 3000 hours over 5 years unfortenetly last two years do not have much time to play . my kills ratio is more then 3:1 kills 4:1 assistnce on all clases i play only random(ecept stamden currently i have time to keep gear updated stamblade, magsorc, swarden, i not my templar because it for lames and there was no chalange expecially on magden simmiliar case for mag sorc but its my , ....

So, you're saying you have been playing since PC launch, or close to PC launch? You're saying I lost arguments when all of mine have been valid with evidence to support? The only evidence you have provided is some half-baked statement of an old thread, which the OP clearly showcased how out-of-date that thread was and is no longer valid to date...
If you're a launch veteran, you should know how long Templars have been in the bottom, or next to, for years. Yet, here you are requesting a nerf thread because you can't compensate?!

Ok buddy

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!

L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.

Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.

Jabs is not ok 60% dmg than any other spamable is simply not ok.. nerf it to be comparable to other spamable them Say something about L2P..

First of all, there are entirely way too many Nerf Jabs/Sweeps threads going around since Elsweyr dropped with an overwhelming amount of counter-feedback for anyone still complaining to not have had the chance to take advice from many other players (myself included). Second, there is more counter-play to Jabs/Sweeps than any other skill in the game. For some examples: Major Evasion, re-positioning behind and/or dodge-rolling, blocking, interrupting are a few. Jabs/Sweeps misses more than it hits within one channel. IF you are being tagged by all four Jabs/Sweeps from one channel, more than likely you are stationary and don't know how to maneuver around your target(s). Simply put, L2P is the last viable answer to Casuals who are unwilling to take the advice from better players...

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!

L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.

Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.

I have to ask if you don’t play anymore why does this even matter to you? Why you here? How would you even know how op jabs are since you don’t play anymore?

I stopped playing shortly after Elsweyr dropped because the game is getting stale and extremely homogenized. It doesn't matter to me, hence why my quote stated in the first line that these threads are hilarious to be still going on...I know how NOT OP Jabs are because I mained a Stamplar since Console launch and have seen all of the ups-and-downs with the Class. Now that it's finally in a good place again after years of being sub-par in comparison to other classses, everyone wants it nerfed because, simply, there are too many casual players that are used to playing P2W games instead of learning the mechanics of a game as complex as ESO's combat system and actually improving instead of expecting a W just because they feel entitled to it.

It is much easier to conterplay any other spamable 100000000% easier is counter dizzy than jabs, its nit okay have on game such toxic ability which have 60% more dmg then full cast easily 100% counter dodge skill .. evasion is stupid argument since 50% of class cannot have evasion ... or you suggested to use medium armor on mag class but Even with evasion jabs is still stronger then any spamable jabs should be stronger then other spamable but 60% is simply stupidy to much... ... its like matriach will have 60% more heal then any other heals ...

Actually its easy to get a 60% bigger healtooltip on matriarch than on other burst heals. Still nobody in here complains about matriarch heal...

Only in case when full stam templar compare healt to full stack magica sorc...

Wrong! Viable pet sorc builds can easely reach a 16k tooltip on matriarch. The average magplar has a 11-12k breath of life tooltip. Thats already 33%+ more healing. And thats mostly in the case of the sorc not using healing cps, meanwhile the templar does. If the sorc really wants to push his healing numbers, he could reach 20k+ heals, which ia more than your 60%. And thats compared sorc matriarch heal with the previous biggest burst heal in the game. Bow think about all the other class burst heals, which are lower than breath of life. The sorc can like this get 100% bigger heals than most classes.

Btw those are ingame numbers and not just base tooltips. Already said, that base tooltips are nir applicable to the game just like this. Same as jabs in game does not do as much damage as you claim. Damage numbers of jabs in game are on dizzy level and nowhere near dragon leap.

Jabs calculation is not based on base tolltip, find the topic about Stamina spamable its comparable of all spamable... ofcourse u can also build necro alfiq two different monster set to support magica and slot all magica increase ability and then u can have 60% bigger toooltip to standard templar.. but its non sense, yes matriarch is stronger heal but reasonable not 60% if jabs have only 30% more dmg then others spamable then it will be okay.. but currently is 60% ok for jabs best case dizzy on magsorc, avarage number is Even more then 60% i understand u protect your one button godplar, but this is simply not balanced and is toxic for the future of the game and should be adressed and fixed... btw honor od the dead is better for Pvp due to refund...

You still ride the same train of thoughts, that jabs actually hit 60% harder than dizzy. It just does not in PvP. We tried explaining you why jabs needs a higher base tooltip and we tried explaining to you, that it does not translate 1 to 1 to its actual damage in PvP. I can tell you again, that average damage numbers of jabs are pretty much the same as dizzying swing and nowhere near leap. But you just ignore it.

Many people told you to l2p, play the class yourself and learn how jabs play out in the end. You also will learn quite a bit how to counter the skill by doing so. Untill you did that, your crying wont be more than some mimimi noise to the ears of the veteran and actual good players.

About the matriarch heal: the heals is like 40% stronger than breath of life (or honor the dead) by simply having a viable petsorc build. No investing into cps, no just max out magicka, a simple pet sorc build. And thats compared to a magplar build, who has some cps set for increased healing. But again, you just do not listen...

Because u ignore facts and correct numbers based on calculation how each skill works ...jabs do not need to have 60% more dmg.
Only defending one button spam class probably because u do not have any other..

You know what...post the actual numbers and show is this 60% increase against which skills you're referring to. Getting tired of your lazy arguments with zero supporting evidence. You just cry to cry.
What class do you play?
How long have you played?
What gear and skills do you use?
Are you solo, group, in CP or Non-CP cyro, BGs?

F.e this link https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6495858#Comment_6495858

That thread was called buff other spammables and not "nerf jabs". And also in original post it is mentioned that reasoning behind buff of dizzy and flurry was passives attached to jabs, not jabs themselves. Given that already ZOS "buffed" dizzy to compensate for off-balance, no need to touch jabs and dizzy at all right now. Buff flurry, make something with class projectile spammables so they won't be a trash against wings/shimmering/bol etc. No more nerfs plz.

One nerf needed jabs must be destroy ... templar must suffer but jabs is still far ahead other spamable... from my point of view ..

This is why ZOS has not nerfed Jabs. Because of posts like this from people like you and your "opinion". It is a bias, and that does not entitle you to demand unwarranted changes. Just because you're frustrated does not mean everything should change in your favor. Many players have the same bias about other classes as well, but the difference is they play those other classes to learn the mechanics and how to counter them.

I asked fornerf because it op and ok there is two options buff others or nerf one results is same.. you may dissagree i understamd somone who have jabs in his nice will protect jabs with his/ her life.. and jabs is stupidly op .. indeed i also sometime play templar but... this need to be neefed ...

I disagree. Jabs being OP is your opinion. You say this because you feel your tool-kit (which we still don't know what you're playing....) is underwhelming. Most classes may seem under performing against specific skills or classes because people simply do not know how other classes work in order to counter it, or they're really just not that good to begin with.

I main a Templar, so yes I will defend it. Reason is because the entire class has been so undeniably gutted over the past 5 years that it's really an accomplishment of ZOS to remove so much class identity from a core class! However, with all that being said I also played Stamblade, StamDK, Magplar, MagDK, Stamden all quite equally to how much time I spend on my Stamplar (before I left ESO - which was maybe a couple of weeks into Elswyr) and I do just fine with all of those classes, if not better! I find StamDK to be easy-mode compared to my Stamplar. Better healing, better burst, better defense and great combos! I even turned my MagDK into a Bomber and do great in open Cyro.

It's all about learning the game and playing it at a higher level than you currently are. Once you get to higher level MMR BG's, consistently rank tops in Cyrodiil and/or play progressive Trials (if that's your cup of tea), then you can start giving feedback about the game's inconsistencies. But to be a newer player and just demand demand demand because you feel it's unfair that you're not winning is a bold-faced fantasy that is becoming more and more common among gamers.

Lol how you can know you are on higher mmr?? ... that i ignore your question its not mean i new just non ineterested to answer to some noob who lost arguments and try to strike discuters with personal attack like 5year child... . before reset mmr i have to wait for bg 20-30 mins and meet in every bg ussuly same people snd you was not in that companies.. ... deathmatch like 15 mins with few kills so that reason i seee sweep as best ulti because is best on keepimg presure ... i have nearly all classs ( ecept stamnecro) spent more 3000 hours over 5 years unfortenetly last two years do not have much time to play . my kills ratio is more then 3:1 kills 4:1 assistnce on all clases i play only random(ecept stamden currently i have time to keep gear updated stamblade, magsorc, swarden, i not my templar because it for lames and there was no chalange expecially on magden simmiliar case for mag sorc but its my , ....

So, you're saying you have been playing since PC launch, or close to PC launch? You're saying I lost arguments when all of mine have been valid with evidence to support? The only evidence you have provided is some half-baked statement of an old thread, which the OP clearly showcased how out-of-date that thread was and is no longer valid to date...
If you're a launch veteran, you should know how long Templars have been in the bottom, or next to, for years. Yet, here you are requesting a nerf thread because you can't compensate?!

Ok buddy

Tenplars was on the buttom i agree, but this is not reason to make them op now or you think it is reason?? Same case to mag sorc they were stupidly op killing machine but the rewason why destroy them now?? From my point of view no ..

All of your "evidence" or suggestion is from your point of view, which is an opinion. It is not factual, no matter how badly you want it to be. I don't think that Templars being on the bottom is reason for them to be made on top. In fact, I think Templars are in a great spot currently, certainly not on top, though. StamDK's still shred most PVP content at the moment, hands down. How many Stamplars do you see in a BG match, on average? Maybe 1 or 2. Meanwhile, most commonly played classes in BG's are Stamden, StamDK, Stamcro and Magsorc. Magplars follow closely to those, but usually for heals in pre-mades. I see more StamNB Snipe spammers in BG's than I do other Stamplars.

What do you see in Open world Cyro? Generaly groups of Stamcros, StamDKs, MagDKs and healers of either Templars or Wardens.

I won't even begin to touch on Trial compositions because I don't do them often. However, Templars are not most desired for DPS roles, unless anyone can confirm this has changed?

Everything you say is "your opinion", which immediately voids any contribution you make to these threads as valid reasons for said nerfs.

Magsorcs, by the way, are still stupidly OP. Playing them solo in open world, however, is not easy. Right now, the only class that has been "destroyed" is Nightblades. Magblades more specifically.

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!

L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.

Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.

Jabs is not ok 60% dmg than any other spamable is simply not ok.. nerf it to be comparable to other spamable them Say something about L2P..

First of all, there are entirely way too many Nerf Jabs/Sweeps threads going around since Elsweyr dropped with an overwhelming amount of counter-feedback for anyone still complaining to not have had the chance to take advice from many other players (myself included). Second, there is more counter-play to Jabs/Sweeps than any other skill in the game. For some examples: Major Evasion, re-positioning behind and/or dodge-rolling, blocking, interrupting are a few. Jabs/Sweeps misses more than it hits within one channel. IF you are being tagged by all four Jabs/Sweeps from one channel, more than likely you are stationary and don't know how to maneuver around your target(s). Simply put, L2P is the last viable answer to Casuals who are unwilling to take the advice from better players...

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!

L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.

Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.

I have to ask if you don’t play anymore why does this even matter to you? Why you here? How would you even know how op jabs are since you don’t play anymore?

I stopped playing shortly after Elsweyr dropped because the game is getting stale and extremely homogenized. It doesn't matter to me, hence why my quote stated in the first line that these threads are hilarious to be still going on...I know how NOT OP Jabs are because I mained a Stamplar since Console launch and have seen all of the ups-and-downs with the Class. Now that it's finally in a good place again after years of being sub-par in comparison to other classses, everyone wants it nerfed because, simply, there are too many casual players that are used to playing P2W games instead of learning the mechanics of a game as complex as ESO's combat system and actually improving instead of expecting a W just because they feel entitled to it.

It is much easier to conterplay any other spamable 100000000% easier is counter dizzy than jabs, its nit okay have on game such toxic ability which have 60% more dmg then full cast easily 100% counter dodge skill .. evasion is stupid argument since 50% of class cannot have evasion ... or you suggested to use medium armor on mag class but Even with evasion jabs is still stronger then any spamable jabs should be stronger then other spamable but 60% is simply stupidy to much... ... its like matriach will have 60% more heal then any other heals ...

Actually its easy to get a 60% bigger healtooltip on matriarch than on other burst heals. Still nobody in here complains about matriarch heal...

Only in case when full stam templar compare healt to full stack magica sorc...

Wrong! Viable pet sorc builds can easely reach a 16k tooltip on matriarch. The average magplar has a 11-12k breath of life tooltip. Thats already 33%+ more healing. And thats mostly in the case of the sorc not using healing cps, meanwhile the templar does. If the sorc really wants to push his healing numbers, he could reach 20k+ heals, which ia more than your 60%. And thats compared sorc matriarch heal with the previous biggest burst heal in the game. Bow think about all the other class burst heals, which are lower than breath of life. The sorc can like this get 100% bigger heals than most classes.

Btw those are ingame numbers and not just base tooltips. Already said, that base tooltips are nir applicable to the game just like this. Same as jabs in game does not do as much damage as you claim. Damage numbers of jabs in game are on dizzy level and nowhere near dragon leap.

Jabs calculation is not based on base tolltip, find the topic about Stamina spamable its comparable of all spamable... ofcourse u can also build necro alfiq two different monster set to support magica and slot all magica increase ability and then u can have 60% bigger toooltip to standard templar.. but its non sense, yes matriarch is stronger heal but reasonable not 60% if jabs have only 30% more dmg then others spamable then it will be okay.. but currently is 60% ok for jabs best case dizzy on magsorc, avarage number is Even more then 60% i understand u protect your one button godplar, but this is simply not balanced and is toxic for the future of the game and should be adressed and fixed... btw honor od the dead is better for Pvp due to refund...

You still ride the same train of thoughts, that jabs actually hit 60% harder than dizzy. It just does not in PvP. We tried explaining you why jabs needs a higher base tooltip and we tried explaining to you, that it does not translate 1 to 1 to its actual damage in PvP. I can tell you again, that average damage numbers of jabs are pretty much the same as dizzying swing and nowhere near leap. But you just ignore it.

Many people told you to l2p, play the class yourself and learn how jabs play out in the end. You also will learn quite a bit how to counter the skill by doing so. Untill you did that, your crying wont be more than some mimimi noise to the ears of the veteran and actual good players.

About the matriarch heal: the heals is like 40% stronger than breath of life (or honor the dead) by simply having a viable petsorc build. No investing into cps, no just max out magicka, a simple pet sorc build. And thats compared to a magplar build, who has some cps set for increased healing. But again, you just do not listen...

Because u ignore facts and correct numbers based on calculation how each skill works ...jabs do not need to have 60% more dmg.
Only defending one button spam class probably because u do not have any other..

You know what...post the actual numbers and show is this 60% increase against which skills you're referring to. Getting tired of your lazy arguments with zero supporting evidence. You just cry to cry.
What class do you play?
How long have you played?
What gear and skills do you use?
Are you solo, group, in CP or Non-CP cyro, BGs?

F.e this link https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6495858#Comment_6495858

That thread was called buff other spammables and not "nerf jabs". And also in original post it is mentioned that reasoning behind buff of dizzy and flurry was passives attached to jabs, not jabs themselves. Given that already ZOS "buffed" dizzy to compensate for off-balance, no need to touch jabs and dizzy at all right now. Buff flurry, make something with class projectile spammables so they won't be a trash against wings/shimmering/bol etc. No more nerfs plz.

One nerf needed jabs must be destroy ... templar must suffer but jabs is still far ahead other spamable... from my point of view ..

This is why ZOS has not nerfed Jabs. Because of posts like this from people like you and your "opinion". It is a bias, and that does not entitle you to demand unwarranted changes. Just because you're frustrated does not mean everything should change in your favor. Many players have the same bias about other classes as well, but the difference is they play those other classes to learn the mechanics and how to counter them.

I asked fornerf because it op and ok there is two options buff others or nerf one results is same.. you may dissagree i understamd somone who have jabs in his nice will protect jabs with his/ her life.. and jabs is stupidly op .. indeed i also sometime play templar but... this need to be neefed ...

I disagree. Jabs being OP is your opinion. You say this because you feel your tool-kit (which we still don't know what you're playing....) is underwhelming. Most classes may seem under performing against specific skills or classes because people simply do not know how other classes work in order to counter it, or they're really just not that good to begin with.

I main a Templar, so yes I will defend it. Reason is because the entire class has been so undeniably gutted over the past 5 years that it's really an accomplishment of ZOS to remove so much class identity from a core class! However, with all that being said I also played Stamblade, StamDK, Magplar, MagDK, Stamden all quite equally to how much time I spend on my Stamplar (before I left ESO - which was maybe a couple of weeks into Elswyr) and I do just fine with all of those classes, if not better! I find StamDK to be easy-mode compared to my Stamplar. Better healing, better burst, better defense and great combos! I even turned my MagDK into a Bomber and do great in open Cyro.

It's all about learning the game and playing it at a higher level than you currently are. Once you get to higher level MMR BG's, consistently rank tops in Cyrodiil and/or play progressive Trials (if that's your cup of tea), then you can start giving feedback about the game's inconsistencies. But to be a newer player and just demand demand demand because you feel it's unfair that you're not winning is a bold-faced fantasy that is becoming more and more common among gamers.

Lol how you can know you are on higher mmr?? ... that i ignore your question its not mean i new just non ineterested to answer to some noob who lost arguments and try to strike discuters with personal attack like 5year child... . before reset mmr i have to wait for bg 20-30 mins and meet in every bg ussuly same people snd you was not in that companies.. ... deathmatch like 15 mins with few kills so that reason i seee sweep as best ulti because is best on keepimg presure ... i have nearly all classs ( ecept stamnecro) spent more 3000 hours over 5 years unfortenetly last two years do not have much time to play . my kills ratio is more then 3:1 kills 4:1 assistnce on all clases i play only random(ecept stamden currently i have time to keep gear updated stamblade, magsorc, swarden, i not my templar because it for lames and there was no chalange expecially on magden simmiliar case for mag sorc but its my , ....

So, you're saying you have been playing since PC launch, or close to PC launch? You're saying I lost arguments when all of mine have been valid with evidence to support? The only evidence you have provided is some half-baked statement of an old thread, which the OP clearly showcased how out-of-date that thread was and is no longer valid to date...
If you're a launch veteran, you should know how long Templars have been in the bottom, or next to, for years. Yet, here you are requesting a nerf thread because you can't compensate?!

Ok buddy

Tenplars was on the buttom i agree, but this is not reason to make them op now or you think it is reason?? Same case to mag sorc they were stupidly op killing machine but the rewason why destroy them now?? From my point of view no ..

All of your "evidence" or suggestion is from your point of view, which is an opinion. It is not factual, no matter how badly you want it to be. I don't think that Templars being on the bottom is reason for them to be made on top. In fact, I think Templars are in a great spot currently, certainly not on top, though. StamDK's still shred most PVP content at the moment, hands down. How many Stamplars do you see in a BG match, on average? Maybe 1 or 2. Meanwhile, most commonly played classes in BG's are Stamden, StamDK, Stamcro and Magsorc. Magplars follow closely to those, but usually for heals in pre-mades. I see more StamNB Snipe spammers in BG's than I do other Stamplars.

What do you see in Open world Cyro? Generaly groups of Stamcros, StamDKs, MagDKs and healers of either Templars or Wardens.

I won't even begin to touch on Trial compositions because I don't do them often. However, Templars are not most desired for DPS roles, unless anyone can confirm this has changed?

Everything you say is "your opinion", which immediately voids any contribution you make to these threads as valid reasons for said nerfs.

Magsorcs, by the way, are still stupidly OP. Playing them solo in open world, however, is not easy. Right now, the only class that has been "destroyed" is Nightblades. Magblades more specifically.

No one have Ultimate patent for true . I share my point of view with calculation and my position you can have different opinion thats okay, jabs have more dmg then dizzy its fact. Should it have such more dmg? From my point of view no . You can have different position f.e stamplar should have holy kill ability to instant kill every one ..

I'm not exactly sure where you're getting this "insta-kill" ability from...Generally speaking, it takes 3-4 channels of Jabs to coincide with PotL and DB/Onslaught to kill a decent player now. None of your points of views have included calculations, other than the one referenced by @MartiniDaniels , which has been laid to rest as he stated these calculations were outdated and no longer hold value with today's current state.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!

L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.

Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.

Jabs is not ok 60% dmg than any other spamable is simply not ok.. nerf it to be comparable to other spamable them Say something about L2P..

First of all, there are entirely way too many Nerf Jabs/Sweeps threads going around since Elsweyr dropped with an overwhelming amount of counter-feedback for anyone still complaining to not have had the chance to take advice from many other players (myself included). Second, there is more counter-play to Jabs/Sweeps than any other skill in the game. For some examples: Major Evasion, re-positioning behind and/or dodge-rolling, blocking, interrupting are a few. Jabs/Sweeps misses more than it hits within one channel. IF you are being tagged by all four Jabs/Sweeps from one channel, more than likely you are stationary and don't know how to maneuver around your target(s). Simply put, L2P is the last viable answer to Casuals who are unwilling to take the advice from better players...

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!

L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.

Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.

I have to ask if you don’t play anymore why does this even matter to you? Why you here? How would you even know how op jabs are since you don’t play anymore?

I stopped playing shortly after Elsweyr dropped because the game is getting stale and extremely homogenized. It doesn't matter to me, hence why my quote stated in the first line that these threads are hilarious to be still going on...I know how NOT OP Jabs are because I mained a Stamplar since Console launch and have seen all of the ups-and-downs with the Class. Now that it's finally in a good place again after years of being sub-par in comparison to other classses, everyone wants it nerfed because, simply, there are too many casual players that are used to playing P2W games instead of learning the mechanics of a game as complex as ESO's combat system and actually improving instead of expecting a W just because they feel entitled to it.

It is much easier to conterplay any other spamable 100000000% easier is counter dizzy than jabs, its nit okay have on game such toxic ability which have 60% more dmg then full cast easily 100% counter dodge skill .. evasion is stupid argument since 50% of class cannot have evasion ... or you suggested to use medium armor on mag class but Even with evasion jabs is still stronger then any spamable jabs should be stronger then other spamable but 60% is simply stupidy to much... ... its like matriach will have 60% more heal then any other heals ...

Actually its easy to get a 60% bigger healtooltip on matriarch than on other burst heals. Still nobody in here complains about matriarch heal...

Only in case when full stam templar compare healt to full stack magica sorc...

Wrong! Viable pet sorc builds can easely reach a 16k tooltip on matriarch. The average magplar has a 11-12k breath of life tooltip. Thats already 33%+ more healing. And thats mostly in the case of the sorc not using healing cps, meanwhile the templar does. If the sorc really wants to push his healing numbers, he could reach 20k+ heals, which ia more than your 60%. And thats compared sorc matriarch heal with the previous biggest burst heal in the game. Bow think about all the other class burst heals, which are lower than breath of life. The sorc can like this get 100% bigger heals than most classes.

Btw those are ingame numbers and not just base tooltips. Already said, that base tooltips are nir applicable to the game just like this. Same as jabs in game does not do as much damage as you claim. Damage numbers of jabs in game are on dizzy level and nowhere near dragon leap.

Jabs calculation is not based on base tolltip, find the topic about Stamina spamable its comparable of all spamable... ofcourse u can also build necro alfiq two different monster set to support magica and slot all magica increase ability and then u can have 60% bigger toooltip to standard templar.. but its non sense, yes matriarch is stronger heal but reasonable not 60% if jabs have only 30% more dmg then others spamable then it will be okay.. but currently is 60% ok for jabs best case dizzy on magsorc, avarage number is Even more then 60% i understand u protect your one button godplar, but this is simply not balanced and is toxic for the future of the game and should be adressed and fixed... btw honor od the dead is better for Pvp due to refund...

You still ride the same train of thoughts, that jabs actually hit 60% harder than dizzy. It just does not in PvP. We tried explaining you why jabs needs a higher base tooltip and we tried explaining to you, that it does not translate 1 to 1 to its actual damage in PvP. I can tell you again, that average damage numbers of jabs are pretty much the same as dizzying swing and nowhere near leap. But you just ignore it.

Many people told you to l2p, play the class yourself and learn how jabs play out in the end. You also will learn quite a bit how to counter the skill by doing so. Untill you did that, your crying wont be more than some mimimi noise to the ears of the veteran and actual good players.

About the matriarch heal: the heals is like 40% stronger than breath of life (or honor the dead) by simply having a viable petsorc build. No investing into cps, no just max out magicka, a simple pet sorc build. And thats compared to a magplar build, who has some cps set for increased healing. But again, you just do not listen...

Because u ignore facts and correct numbers based on calculation how each skill works ...jabs do not need to have 60% more dmg.
Only defending one button spam class probably because u do not have any other..

You know what...post the actual numbers and show is this 60% increase against which skills you're referring to. Getting tired of your lazy arguments with zero supporting evidence. You just cry to cry.
What class do you play?
How long have you played?
What gear and skills do you use?
Are you solo, group, in CP or Non-CP cyro, BGs?

F.e this link https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6495858#Comment_6495858

That thread was called buff other spammables and not "nerf jabs". And also in original post it is mentioned that reasoning behind buff of dizzy and flurry was passives attached to jabs, not jabs themselves. Given that already ZOS "buffed" dizzy to compensate for off-balance, no need to touch jabs and dizzy at all right now. Buff flurry, make something with class projectile spammables so they won't be a trash against wings/shimmering/bol etc. No more nerfs plz.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

@MartiniDaniels Just out of curiosity, did you actuall test all of these skills with a Parse? If so, can you please post each skill's combat metrics?

To me, it seems like you just logged on to PTS with each Class, equipped the same gear and just uploaded a Snip-it of each tool-tip. That to me is not testing...

As described in original posts, it is just tooltips. But anyway this all is outdated, I already remade my PVE magplar to PVP stamplar and played ~100 hours on one. I can confirm that jabs are absolutely OP if... opponent tries to face tank them standing in one place and/or without major evasion. Major evasion immediately puts jabs to "standard" and against highly mobile opponents jabs are not good at all. If not for aedric passives, I'll swap them for dizzy and use dizzy instead.

Many of the community have suggested reworks to Jabs to operate in similar capacity, but with differences to more effective than it currently is, while also reducing base damage. However, ZOS ignores these. An example is changing the skill to be Target instead of AOE, where the AOE component is simply "Splash" damage similar to Reverse Slice.

This would essentially target one enemy like any other instant cast skill, but would operate as a channel like Flurry. Reduce the Channel time to 0.8s from 1.0s, reduce the amount of Jabs/Sweeps to 3 from 4 and finally reduce base damage 10-15%.
The end result would benefit more successful connections with Jabs/Sweeps, but deal overall less damage than the 100% optimal on paper result.

The real truth is you're requesting a nerf to a Skill because of it's on paper potential instead of looking at it's practiced, in-game operation. Just to clear up, again, Jabs generally hits for 2-3 Jabs at best on average.

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!

L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.

Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.

Jabs is not ok 60% dmg than any other spamable is simply not ok.. nerf it to be comparable to other spamable them Say something about L2P..

First of all, there are entirely way too many Nerf Jabs/Sweeps threads going around since Elsweyr dropped with an overwhelming amount of counter-feedback for anyone still complaining to not have had the chance to take advice from many other players (myself included). Second, there is more counter-play to Jabs/Sweeps than any other skill in the game. For some examples: Major Evasion, re-positioning behind and/or dodge-rolling, blocking, interrupting are a few. Jabs/Sweeps misses more than it hits within one channel. IF you are being tagged by all four Jabs/Sweeps from one channel, more than likely you are stationary and don't know how to maneuver around your target(s). Simply put, L2P is the last viable answer to Casuals who are unwilling to take the advice from better players...

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!

L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.

Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.

I have to ask if you don’t play anymore why does this even matter to you? Why you here? How would you even know how op jabs are since you don’t play anymore?

I stopped playing shortly after Elsweyr dropped because the game is getting stale and extremely homogenized. It doesn't matter to me, hence why my quote stated in the first line that these threads are hilarious to be still going on...I know how NOT OP Jabs are because I mained a Stamplar since Console launch and have seen all of the ups-and-downs with the Class. Now that it's finally in a good place again after years of being sub-par in comparison to other classses, everyone wants it nerfed because, simply, there are too many casual players that are used to playing P2W games instead of learning the mechanics of a game as complex as ESO's combat system and actually improving instead of expecting a W just because they feel entitled to it.

It is much easier to conterplay any other spamable 100000000% easier is counter dizzy than jabs, its nit okay have on game such toxic ability which have 60% more dmg then full cast easily 100% counter dodge skill .. evasion is stupid argument since 50% of class cannot have evasion ... or you suggested to use medium armor on mag class but Even with evasion jabs is still stronger then any spamable jabs should be stronger then other spamable but 60% is simply stupidy to much... ... its like matriach will have 60% more heal then any other heals ...

Actually its easy to get a 60% bigger healtooltip on matriarch than on other burst heals. Still nobody in here complains about matriarch heal...

Only in case when full stam templar compare healt to full stack magica sorc...

Wrong! Viable pet sorc builds can easely reach a 16k tooltip on matriarch. The average magplar has a 11-12k breath of life tooltip. Thats already 33%+ more healing. And thats mostly in the case of the sorc not using healing cps, meanwhile the templar does. If the sorc really wants to push his healing numbers, he could reach 20k+ heals, which ia more than your 60%. And thats compared sorc matriarch heal with the previous biggest burst heal in the game. Bow think about all the other class burst heals, which are lower than breath of life. The sorc can like this get 100% bigger heals than most classes.

Btw those are ingame numbers and not just base tooltips. Already said, that base tooltips are nir applicable to the game just like this. Same as jabs in game does not do as much damage as you claim. Damage numbers of jabs in game are on dizzy level and nowhere near dragon leap.

Jabs calculation is not based on base tolltip, find the topic about Stamina spamable its comparable of all spamable... ofcourse u can also build necro alfiq two different monster set to support magica and slot all magica increase ability and then u can have 60% bigger toooltip to standard templar.. but its non sense, yes matriarch is stronger heal but reasonable not 60% if jabs have only 30% more dmg then others spamable then it will be okay.. but currently is 60% ok for jabs best case dizzy on magsorc, avarage number is Even more then 60% i understand u protect your one button godplar, but this is simply not balanced and is toxic for the future of the game and should be adressed and fixed... btw honor od the dead is better for Pvp due to refund...

You still ride the same train of thoughts, that jabs actually hit 60% harder than dizzy. It just does not in PvP. We tried explaining you why jabs needs a higher base tooltip and we tried explaining to you, that it does not translate 1 to 1 to its actual damage in PvP. I can tell you again, that average damage numbers of jabs are pretty much the same as dizzying swing and nowhere near leap. But you just ignore it.

Many people told you to l2p, play the class yourself and learn how jabs play out in the end. You also will learn quite a bit how to counter the skill by doing so. Untill you did that, your crying wont be more than some mimimi noise to the ears of the veteran and actual good players.

About the matriarch heal: the heals is like 40% stronger than breath of life (or honor the dead) by simply having a viable petsorc build. No investing into cps, no just max out magicka, a simple pet sorc build. And thats compared to a magplar build, who has some cps set for increased healing. But again, you just do not listen...

Because u ignore facts and correct numbers based on calculation how each skill works ...jabs do not need to have 60% more dmg.
Only defending one button spam class probably because u do not have any other..

You know what...post the actual numbers and show is this 60% increase against which skills you're referring to. Getting tired of your lazy arguments with zero supporting evidence. You just cry to cry.
What class do you play?
How long have you played?
What gear and skills do you use?
Are you solo, group, in CP or Non-CP cyro, BGs?

F.e this link https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6495858#Comment_6495858

That thread was called buff other spammables and not "nerf jabs". And also in original post it is mentioned that reasoning behind buff of dizzy and flurry was passives attached to jabs, not jabs themselves. Given that already ZOS "buffed" dizzy to compensate for off-balance, no need to touch jabs and dizzy at all right now. Buff flurry, make something with class projectile spammables so they won't be a trash against wings/shimmering/bol etc. No more nerfs plz.

One nerf needed jabs must be destroy ... templar must suffer but jabs is still far ahead other spamable... from my point of view ..

This is why ZOS has not nerfed Jabs. Because of posts like this from people like you and your "opinion". It is a bias, and that does not entitle you to demand unwarranted changes. Just because you're frustrated does not mean everything should change in your favor. Many players have the same bias about other classes as well, but the difference is they play those other classes to learn the mechanics and how to counter them.

I asked fornerf because it op and ok there is two options buff others or nerf one results is same.. you may dissagree i understamd somone who have jabs in his nice will protect jabs with his/ her life.. and jabs is stupidly op .. indeed i also sometime play templar but... this need to be neefed ...

I disagree. Jabs being OP is your opinion. You say this because you feel your tool-kit (which we still don't know what you're playing....) is underwhelming. Most classes may seem under performing against specific skills or classes because people simply do not know how other classes work in order to counter it, or they're really just not that good to begin with.

I main a Templar, so yes I will defend it. Reason is because the entire class has been so undeniably gutted over the past 5 years that it's really an accomplishment of ZOS to remove so much class identity from a core class! However, with all that being said I also played Stamblade, StamDK, Magplar, MagDK, Stamden all quite equally to how much time I spend on my Stamplar (before I left ESO - which was maybe a couple of weeks into Elswyr) and I do just fine with all of those classes, if not better! I find StamDK to be easy-mode compared to my Stamplar. Better healing, better burst, better defense and great combos! I even turned my MagDK into a Bomber and do great in open Cyro.

It's all about learning the game and playing it at a higher level than you currently are. Once you get to higher level MMR BG's, consistently rank tops in Cyrodiil and/or play progressive Trials (if that's your cup of tea), then you can start giving feedback about the game's inconsistencies. But to be a newer player and just demand demand demand because you feel it's unfair that you're not winning is a bold-faced fantasy that is becoming more and more common among gamers.

Lol how you can know you are on higher mmr?? ... that i ignore your question its not mean i new just non ineterested to answer to some noob who lost arguments and try to strike discuters with personal attack like 5year child... . before reset mmr i have to wait for bg 20-30 mins and meet in every bg ussuly same people snd you was not in that companies.. ... deathmatch like 15 mins with few kills so that reason i seee sweep as best ulti because is best on keepimg presure ... i have nearly all classs ( ecept stamnecro) spent more 3000 hours over 5 years unfortenetly last two years do not have much time to play . my kills ratio is more then 3:1 kills 4:1 assistnce on all clases i play only random(ecept stamden currently i have time to keep gear updated stamblade, magsorc, swarden, i not my templar because it for lames and there was no chalange expecially on magden simmiliar case for mag sorc but its my , ....

So, you're saying you have been playing since PC launch, or close to PC launch? You're saying I lost arguments when all of mine have been valid with evidence to support? The only evidence you have provided is some half-baked statement of an old thread, which the OP clearly showcased how out-of-date that thread was and is no longer valid to date...
If you're a launch veteran, you should know how long Templars have been in the bottom, or next to, for years. Yet, here you are requesting a nerf thread because you can't compensate?!

Ok buddy

Tenplars was on the buttom i agree, but this is not reason to make them op now or you think it is reason?? Same case to mag sorc they were stupidly op killing machine but the rewason why destroy them now?? From my point of view no ..

All of your "evidence" or suggestion is from your point of view, which is an opinion. It is not factual, no matter how badly you want it to be. I don't think that Templars being on the bottom is reason for them to be made on top. In fact, I think Templars are in a great spot currently, certainly not on top, though. StamDK's still shred most PVP content at the moment, hands down. How many Stamplars do you see in a BG match, on average? Maybe 1 or 2. Meanwhile, most commonly played classes in BG's are Stamden, StamDK, Stamcro and Magsorc. Magplars follow closely to those, but usually for heals in pre-mades. I see more StamNB Snipe spammers in BG's than I do other Stamplars.

What do you see in Open world Cyro? Generaly groups of Stamcros, StamDKs, MagDKs and healers of either Templars or Wardens.

I won't even begin to touch on Trial compositions because I don't do them often. However, Templars are not most desired for DPS roles, unless anyone can confirm this has changed?

Everything you say is "your opinion", which immediately voids any contribution you make to these threads as valid reasons for said nerfs.

Magsorcs, by the way, are still stupidly OP. Playing them solo in open world, however, is not easy. Right now, the only class that has been "destroyed" is Nightblades. Magblades more specifically.

No one have Ultimate patent for true . I share my point of view with calculation and my position you can have different opinion thats okay, jabs have more dmg then dizzy its fact. Should it have such more dmg? From my point of view no . You can have different position f.e stamplar should have holy kill ability to instant kill every one ..

I'm not exactly sure where you're getting this "insta-kill" ability from...Generally speaking, it takes 3-4 channels of Jabs to coincide with PotL and DB/Onslaught to kill a decent player now. None of your points of views have included calculations, other than the one referenced by @MartiniDaniels , which has been laid to rest as he stated these calculations were outdated and no longer hold value with today's current state.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!

L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.

Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.

Jabs is not ok 60% dmg than any other spamable is simply not ok.. nerf it to be comparable to other spamable them Say something about L2P..

First of all, there are entirely way too many Nerf Jabs/Sweeps threads going around since Elsweyr dropped with an overwhelming amount of counter-feedback for anyone still complaining to not have had the chance to take advice from many other players (myself included). Second, there is more counter-play to Jabs/Sweeps than any other skill in the game. For some examples: Major Evasion, re-positioning behind and/or dodge-rolling, blocking, interrupting are a few. Jabs/Sweeps misses more than it hits within one channel. IF you are being tagged by all four Jabs/Sweeps from one channel, more than likely you are stationary and don't know how to maneuver around your target(s). Simply put, L2P is the last viable answer to Casuals who are unwilling to take the advice from better players...

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!

L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.

Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.

I have to ask if you don’t play anymore why does this even matter to you? Why you here? How would you even know how op jabs are since you don’t play anymore?

I stopped playing shortly after Elsweyr dropped because the game is getting stale and extremely homogenized. It doesn't matter to me, hence why my quote stated in the first line that these threads are hilarious to be still going on...I know how NOT OP Jabs are because I mained a Stamplar since Console launch and have seen all of the ups-and-downs with the Class. Now that it's finally in a good place again after years of being sub-par in comparison to other classses, everyone wants it nerfed because, simply, there are too many casual players that are used to playing P2W games instead of learning the mechanics of a game as complex as ESO's combat system and actually improving instead of expecting a W just because they feel entitled to it.

It is much easier to conterplay any other spamable 100000000% easier is counter dizzy than jabs, its nit okay have on game such toxic ability which have 60% more dmg then full cast easily 100% counter dodge skill .. evasion is stupid argument since 50% of class cannot have evasion ... or you suggested to use medium armor on mag class but Even with evasion jabs is still stronger then any spamable jabs should be stronger then other spamable but 60% is simply stupidy to much... ... its like matriach will have 60% more heal then any other heals ...

Actually its easy to get a 60% bigger healtooltip on matriarch than on other burst heals. Still nobody in here complains about matriarch heal...

Only in case when full stam templar compare healt to full stack magica sorc...

Wrong! Viable pet sorc builds can easely reach a 16k tooltip on matriarch. The average magplar has a 11-12k breath of life tooltip. Thats already 33%+ more healing. And thats mostly in the case of the sorc not using healing cps, meanwhile the templar does. If the sorc really wants to push his healing numbers, he could reach 20k+ heals, which ia more than your 60%. And thats compared sorc matriarch heal with the previous biggest burst heal in the game. Bow think about all the other class burst heals, which are lower than breath of life. The sorc can like this get 100% bigger heals than most classes.

Btw those are ingame numbers and not just base tooltips. Already said, that base tooltips are nir applicable to the game just like this. Same as jabs in game does not do as much damage as you claim. Damage numbers of jabs in game are on dizzy level and nowhere near dragon leap.

Jabs calculation is not based on base tolltip, find the topic about Stamina spamable its comparable of all spamable... ofcourse u can also build necro alfiq two different monster set to support magica and slot all magica increase ability and then u can have 60% bigger toooltip to standard templar.. but its non sense, yes matriarch is stronger heal but reasonable not 60% if jabs have only 30% more dmg then others spamable then it will be okay.. but currently is 60% ok for jabs best case dizzy on magsorc, avarage number is Even more then 60% i understand u protect your one button godplar, but this is simply not balanced and is toxic for the future of the game and should be adressed and fixed... btw honor od the dead is better for Pvp due to refund...

You still ride the same train of thoughts, that jabs actually hit 60% harder than dizzy. It just does not in PvP. We tried explaining you why jabs needs a higher base tooltip and we tried explaining to you, that it does not translate 1 to 1 to its actual damage in PvP. I can tell you again, that average damage numbers of jabs are pretty much the same as dizzying swing and nowhere near leap. But you just ignore it.

Many people told you to l2p, play the class yourself and learn how jabs play out in the end. You also will learn quite a bit how to counter the skill by doing so. Untill you did that, your crying wont be more than some mimimi noise to the ears of the veteran and actual good players.

About the matriarch heal: the heals is like 40% stronger than breath of life (or honor the dead) by simply having a viable petsorc build. No investing into cps, no just max out magicka, a simple pet sorc build. And thats compared to a magplar build, who has some cps set for increased healing. But again, you just do not listen...

Because u ignore facts and correct numbers based on calculation how each skill works ...jabs do not need to have 60% more dmg.
Only defending one button spam class probably because u do not have any other..

You know what...post the actual numbers and show is this 60% increase against which skills you're referring to. Getting tired of your lazy arguments with zero supporting evidence. You just cry to cry.
What class do you play?
How long have you played?
What gear and skills do you use?
Are you solo, group, in CP or Non-CP cyro, BGs?

F.e this link https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6495858#Comment_6495858

That thread was called buff other spammables and not "nerf jabs". And also in original post it is mentioned that reasoning behind buff of dizzy and flurry was passives attached to jabs, not jabs themselves. Given that already ZOS "buffed" dizzy to compensate for off-balance, no need to touch jabs and dizzy at all right now. Buff flurry, make something with class projectile spammables so they won't be a trash against wings/shimmering/bol etc. No more nerfs plz.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

@MartiniDaniels Just out of curiosity, did you actuall test all of these skills with a Parse? If so, can you please post each skill's combat metrics?

To me, it seems like you just logged on to PTS with each Class, equipped the same gear and just uploaded a Snip-it of each tool-tip. That to me is not testing...

As described in original posts, it is just tooltips. But anyway this all is outdated, I already remade my PVE magplar to PVP stamplar and played ~100 hours on one. I can confirm that jabs are absolutely OP if... opponent tries to face tank them standing in one place and/or without major evasion. Major evasion immediately puts jabs to "standard" and against highly mobile opponents jabs are not good at all. If not for aedric passives, I'll swap them for dizzy and use dizzy instead.

Many of the community have suggested reworks to Jabs to operate in similar capacity, but with differences to more effective than it currently is, while also reducing base damage. However, ZOS ignores these. An example is changing the skill to be Target instead of AOE, where the AOE component is simply "Splash" damage similar to Reverse Slice.

This would essentially target one enemy like any other instant cast skill, but would operate as a channel like Flurry. Reduce the Channel time to 0.8s from 1.0s, reduce the amount of Jabs/Sweeps to 3 from 4 and finally reduce base damage 10-15%.
The end result would benefit more successful connections with Jabs/Sweeps, but deal overall less damage than the 100% optimal on paper result.

The real truth is you're requesting a nerf to a Skill because of it's on paper potential instead of looking at it's practiced, in-game operation. Just to clear up, again, Jabs generally hits for 2-3 Jabs at best on average.

Holy kill is just hyphotetical example of possible position or opinion.....

Again, you keep going on with hypothetical and opinions within a topic of debate. Debate, mind you, is where individuals discuss opposing views with merit and supporting evidence. Opinion will net you zero validity in your claims. This is the issue with the forums at the moment; they are so toxic with "opinions" from players who are entitled. In such, expect and demand all aspects from ZOS to abide by their interests.

Speaking on your term of "Holy Kill" it would be better suited using with Mage's Wrath than Jabs...