Nerf jabs
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Joinovikova✭✭✭✭
You did not give any valid argument,why full cas Dizzy shold has such signifiicatn low dmg then jabs just say its hard to land .. thats all.. From my point of view and I also not alone... full forum i about this also other topic is much easier to dodge Dizzy since it is cast abilirt so you have 0,8s to dodge adn take 0 dmg 0 dmg.... Jabs is als AOE and have more range than dizzy..SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »
Fact: jabs has more dmg than Dizzy, it facts like 2 is simply bigger number than 1 (on normal number, I know there are cases and rule in math where it posible to discuss this topic...).. Question is it okay ? or not? I think no.. and no one provide any valid at least not valid argument for me why it shoudl be like this.. I understand zou and few people here to protec their class. I do same to my main.. no nerf needed..SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!
L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.
Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.
Jabs is not ok 60% dmg than any other spamable is simply not ok.. nerf it to be comparable to other spamable them Say something about L2P..
First of all, there are entirely way too many Nerf Jabs/Sweeps threads going around since Elsweyr dropped with an overwhelming amount of counter-feedback for anyone still complaining to not have had the chance to take advice from many other players (myself included). Second, there is more counter-play to Jabs/Sweeps than any other skill in the game. For some examples: Major Evasion, re-positioning behind and/or dodge-rolling, blocking, interrupting are a few. Jabs/Sweeps misses more than it hits within one channel. IF you are being tagged by all four Jabs/Sweeps from one channel, more than likely you are stationary and don't know how to maneuver around your target(s). Simply put, L2P is the last viable answer to Casuals who are unwilling to take the advice from better players...Deathlord92 wrote: »
I have to ask if you don’t play anymore why does this even matter to you? Why you here? How would you even know how op jabs are since you don’t play anymore?Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!
L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.
Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.
I stopped playing shortly after Elsweyr dropped because the game is getting stale and extremely homogenized. It doesn't matter to me, hence why my quote stated in the first line that these threads are hilarious to be still going on...I know how NOT OP Jabs are because I mained a Stamplar since Console launch and have seen all of the ups-and-downs with the Class. Now that it's finally in a good place again after years of being sub-par in comparison to other classses, everyone wants it nerfed because, simply, there are too many casual players that are used to playing P2W games instead of learning the mechanics of a game as complex as ESO's combat system and actually improving instead of expecting a W just because they feel entitled to it.
It is much easier to conterplay any other spamable 100000000% easier is counter dizzy than jabs, its nit okay have on game such toxic ability which have 60% more dmg then full cast easily 100% counter dodge skill .. evasion is stupid argument since 50% of class cannot have evasion ... or you suggested to use medium armor on mag class but Even with evasion jabs is still stronger then any spamable jabs should be stronger then other spamable but 60% is simply stupidy to much... ... its like matriach will have 60% more heal then any other heals ...
Actually its easy to get a 60% bigger healtooltip on matriarch than on other burst heals. Still nobody in here complains about matriarch heal...
Only in case when full stam templar compare healt to full stack magica sorc...
Wrong! Viable pet sorc builds can easely reach a 16k tooltip on matriarch. The average magplar has a 11-12k breath of life tooltip. Thats already 33%+ more healing. And thats mostly in the case of the sorc not using healing cps, meanwhile the templar does. If the sorc really wants to push his healing numbers, he could reach 20k+ heals, which ia more than your 60%. And thats compared sorc matriarch heal with the previous biggest burst heal in the game. Bow think about all the other class burst heals, which are lower than breath of life. The sorc can like this get 100% bigger heals than most classes.
Btw those are ingame numbers and not just base tooltips. Already said, that base tooltips are nir applicable to the game just like this. Same as jabs in game does not do as much damage as you claim. Damage numbers of jabs in game are on dizzy level and nowhere near dragon leap.
Jabs calculation is not based on base tolltip, find the topic about Stamina spamable its comparable of all spamable... ofcourse u can also build necro alfiq two different monster set to support magica and slot all magica increase ability and then u can have 60% bigger toooltip to standard templar.. but its non sense, yes matriarch is stronger heal but reasonable not 60% if jabs have only 30% more dmg then others spamable then it will be okay.. but currently is 60% ok for jabs best case dizzy on magsorc, avarage number is Even more then 60% i understand u protect your one button godplar, but this is simply not balanced and is toxic for the future of the game and should be adressed and fixed... btw honor od the dead is better for Pvp due to refund...
You still ride the same train of thoughts, that jabs actually hit 60% harder than dizzy. It just does not in PvP. We tried explaining you why jabs needs a higher base tooltip and we tried explaining to you, that it does not translate 1 to 1 to its actual damage in PvP. I can tell you again, that average damage numbers of jabs are pretty much the same as dizzying swing and nowhere near leap. But you just ignore it.
Many people told you to l2p, play the class yourself and learn how jabs play out in the end. You also will learn quite a bit how to counter the skill by doing so. Untill you did that, your crying wont be more than some mimimi noise to the ears of the veteran and actual good players.
About the matriarch heal: the heals is like 40% stronger than breath of life (or honor the dead) by simply having a viable petsorc build. No investing into cps, no just max out magicka, a simple pet sorc build. And thats compared to a magplar build, who has some cps set for increased healing. But again, you just do not listen...
Because u ignore facts and correct numbers based on calculation how each skill works ...jabs do not need to have 60% more dmg.
Only defending one button spam class probably because u do not have any other..
You know what...post the actual numbers and show is this 60% increase against which skills you're referring to. Getting tired of your lazy arguments with zero supporting evidence. You just cry to cry.
What class do you play?
How long have you played?
What gear and skills do you use?
Are you solo, group, in CP or Non-CP cyro, BGs?
F.e this link https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6495858#Comment_6495858
That thread was called buff other spammables and not "nerf jabs". And also in original post it is mentioned that reasoning behind buff of dizzy and flurry was passives attached to jabs, not jabs themselves. Given that already ZOS "buffed" dizzy to compensate for off-balance, no need to touch jabs and dizzy at all right now. Buff flurry, make something with class projectile spammables so they won't be a trash against wings/shimmering/bol etc. No more nerfs plz.
One nerf needed jabs must be destroy ... templar must suffer but jabs is still far ahead other spamable... from my point of view ..
This is why ZOS has not nerfed Jabs. Because of posts like this from people like you and your "opinion". It is a bias, and that does not entitle you to demand unwarranted changes. Just because you're frustrated does not mean everything should change in your favor. Many players have the same bias about other classes as well, but the difference is they play those other classes to learn the mechanics and how to counter them.
I asked fornerf because it op and ok there is two options buff others or nerf one results is same.. you may dissagree i understamd somone who have jabs in his nice will protect jabs with his/ her life.. and jabs is stupidly op .. indeed i also sometime play templar but... this need to be neefed ...
I disagree. Jabs being OP is your opinion. You say this because you feel your tool-kit (which we still don't know what you're playing....) is underwhelming. Most classes may seem under performing against specific skills or classes because people simply do not know how other classes work in order to counter it, or they're really just not that good to begin with.
I main a Templar, so yes I will defend it. Reason is because the entire class has been so undeniably gutted over the past 5 years that it's really an accomplishment of ZOS to remove so much class identity from a core class! However, with all that being said I also played Stamblade, StamDK, Magplar, MagDK, Stamden all quite equally to how much time I spend on my Stamplar (before I left ESO - which was maybe a couple of weeks into Elswyr) and I do just fine with all of those classes, if not better! I find StamDK to be easy-mode compared to my Stamplar. Better healing, better burst, better defense and great combos! I even turned my MagDK into a Bomber and do great in open Cyro.
It's all about learning the game and playing it at a higher level than you currently are. Once you get to higher level MMR BG's, consistently rank tops in Cyrodiil and/or play progressive Trials (if that's your cup of tea), then you can start giving feedback about the game's inconsistencies. But to be a newer player and just demand demand demand because you feel it's unfair that you're not winning is a bold-faced fantasy that is becoming more and more common among gamers.
Lol how you can know you are on higher mmr?? ... that i ignore your question its not mean i new just non ineterested to answer to some noob who lost arguments and try to strike discuters with personal attack like 5year child... . before reset mmr i have to wait for bg 20-30 mins and meet in every bg ussuly same people snd you was not in that companies.. ... deathmatch like 15 mins with few kills so that reason i seee sweep as best ulti because is best on keepimg presure ... i have nearly all classs ( ecept stamnecro) spent more 3000 hours over 5 years unfortenetly last two years do not have much time to play . my kills ratio is more then 3:1 kills 4:1 assistnce on all clases i play only random(ecept stamden currently i have time to keep gear updated stamblade, magsorc, swarden, i not my templar because it for lames and there was no chalange expecially on magden simmiliar case for mag sorc but its my
, ....
So, you're saying you have been playing since PC launch, or close to PC launch? You're saying I lost arguments when all of mine have been valid with evidence to support? The only evidence you have provided is some half-baked statement of an old thread, which the OP clearly showcased how out-of-date that thread was and is no longer valid to date...
If you're a launch veteran, you should know how long Templars have been in the bottom, or next to, for years. Yet, here you are requesting a nerf thread because you can't compensate?!
Ok buddy
Tenplars was on the buttom i agree, but this is not reason to make them op now or you think it is reason?? Same case to mag sorc they were stupidly op killing machine but the rewason why destroy them now?? From my point of view no ..
All of your "evidence" or suggestion is from your point of view, which is an opinion. It is not factual, no matter how badly you want it to be. I don't think that Templars being on the bottom is reason for them to be made on top. In fact, I think Templars are in a great spot currently, certainly not on top, though. StamDK's still shred most PVP content at the moment, hands down. How many Stamplars do you see in a BG match, on average? Maybe 1 or 2. Meanwhile, most commonly played classes in BG's are Stamden, StamDK, Stamcro and Magsorc. Magplars follow closely to those, but usually for heals in pre-mades. I see more StamNB Snipe spammers in BG's than I do other Stamplars.
What do you see in Open world Cyro? Generaly groups of Stamcros, StamDKs, MagDKs and healers of either Templars or Wardens.
I won't even begin to touch on Trial compositions because I don't do them often. However, Templars are not most desired for DPS roles, unless anyone can confirm this has changed?
Everything you say is "your opinion", which immediately voids any contribution you make to these threads as valid reasons for said nerfs.
Magsorcs, by the way, are still stupidly OP. Playing them solo in open world, however, is not easy. Right now, the only class that has been "destroyed" is Nightblades. Magblades more specifically.
No one have Ultimate patent for true . I share my point of view with calculation and my position you can have different opinion thats okay, jabs have more dmg then dizzy its fact. Should it have such more dmg? From my point of view no . You can have different position f.e stamplar should have holy kill ability to instant kill every one ..
People told you now many times, that yes jabs should have that much more damage than dizzy or any other spammable. You can say no and it doesnt matter, because it makes sense has this damage potential due to the very form of it being a non-target aoe casttime spell. Saying, it should have less damage is your opinion and thats it. Many others have a different opinion and also explained why? Its only you keeping your negative opinion ip despite valid and constructive feedback/explanation why jabs needa this damage. Did you read my long ass post today, where i quoted somebody doing some really basic math and shows that jabs in a normal pvp environment is as effective as any other spammable or slighly above? Slightly here means like a few % in the case of making it hit more than the average hits you normally get.
Yes its damage can super duper, but in reality its pretty much in the same level as any other spammable. But i guess thx for nit reading it.
No i dont defend my class and we all gave valid reason, why jabs needs that damage. If you come here state your opinion but not open for other arguments, then the forum is not a place for you. We gave you many reasons why and you just ignore it. Yes jabs has lots of damage as tooltip and yes it is needed to make up for the mechanics plagueing this skill. My long as shows, that the skill performs somewhere between a normal spammable and a delayed burst ability depending on the skilllevel of the templar. Thinking templars always hut the full channel is an utopia, since om average its like 2-3 hits of four and therefore fewer burning light procs. Its not just math with this skill, it requires actual skill to make it dangerous. Basic math doesnt apply here, because its an unique skill mechanicswise.0 -
FirmamentOfStars✭✭✭✭✭Joinovikova wrote: »
You did not give any valid argument,why full cas Dizzy shold has such signifiicatn low dmg then jabs just say its hard to land .. thats all.. From my point of view and I also not alone... full forum i about this also other topic is much easier to dodge Dizzy since it is cast abilirt so you have 0,8s to dodge adn take 0 dmg 0 dmg.... Jabs is als AOE and have more range than dizzy..SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »
Fact: jabs has more dmg than Dizzy, it facts like 2 is simply bigger number than 1 (on normal number, I know there are cases and rule in math where it posible to discuss this topic...).. Question is it okay ? or not? I think no.. and no one provide any valid at least not valid argument for me why it shoudl be like this.. I understand zou and few people here to protec their class. I do same to my main.. no nerf needed..SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!
L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.
Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.
Jabs is not ok 60% dmg than any other spamable is simply not ok.. nerf it to be comparable to other spamable them Say something about L2P..
First of all, there are entirely way too many Nerf Jabs/Sweeps threads going around since Elsweyr dropped with an overwhelming amount of counter-feedback for anyone still complaining to not have had the chance to take advice from many other players (myself included). Second, there is more counter-play to Jabs/Sweeps than any other skill in the game. For some examples: Major Evasion, re-positioning behind and/or dodge-rolling, blocking, interrupting are a few. Jabs/Sweeps misses more than it hits within one channel. IF you are being tagged by all four Jabs/Sweeps from one channel, more than likely you are stationary and don't know how to maneuver around your target(s). Simply put, L2P is the last viable answer to Casuals who are unwilling to take the advice from better players...Deathlord92 wrote: »
I have to ask if you don’t play anymore why does this even matter to you? Why you here? How would you even know how op jabs are since you don’t play anymore?Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!
L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.
Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.
I stopped playing shortly after Elsweyr dropped because the game is getting stale and extremely homogenized. It doesn't matter to me, hence why my quote stated in the first line that these threads are hilarious to be still going on...I know how NOT OP Jabs are because I mained a Stamplar since Console launch and have seen all of the ups-and-downs with the Class. Now that it's finally in a good place again after years of being sub-par in comparison to other classses, everyone wants it nerfed because, simply, there are too many casual players that are used to playing P2W games instead of learning the mechanics of a game as complex as ESO's combat system and actually improving instead of expecting a W just because they feel entitled to it.
It is much easier to conterplay any other spamable 100000000% easier is counter dizzy than jabs, its nit okay have on game such toxic ability which have 60% more dmg then full cast easily 100% counter dodge skill .. evasion is stupid argument since 50% of class cannot have evasion ... or you suggested to use medium armor on mag class but Even with evasion jabs is still stronger then any spamable jabs should be stronger then other spamable but 60% is simply stupidy to much... ... its like matriach will have 60% more heal then any other heals ...
Actually its easy to get a 60% bigger healtooltip on matriarch than on other burst heals. Still nobody in here complains about matriarch heal...
Only in case when full stam templar compare healt to full stack magica sorc...
Wrong! Viable pet sorc builds can easely reach a 16k tooltip on matriarch. The average magplar has a 11-12k breath of life tooltip. Thats already 33%+ more healing. And thats mostly in the case of the sorc not using healing cps, meanwhile the templar does. If the sorc really wants to push his healing numbers, he could reach 20k+ heals, which ia more than your 60%. And thats compared sorc matriarch heal with the previous biggest burst heal in the game. Bow think about all the other class burst heals, which are lower than breath of life. The sorc can like this get 100% bigger heals than most classes.
Btw those are ingame numbers and not just base tooltips. Already said, that base tooltips are nir applicable to the game just like this. Same as jabs in game does not do as much damage as you claim. Damage numbers of jabs in game are on dizzy level and nowhere near dragon leap.
Jabs calculation is not based on base tolltip, find the topic about Stamina spamable its comparable of all spamable... ofcourse u can also build necro alfiq two different monster set to support magica and slot all magica increase ability and then u can have 60% bigger toooltip to standard templar.. but its non sense, yes matriarch is stronger heal but reasonable not 60% if jabs have only 30% more dmg then others spamable then it will be okay.. but currently is 60% ok for jabs best case dizzy on magsorc, avarage number is Even more then 60% i understand u protect your one button godplar, but this is simply not balanced and is toxic for the future of the game and should be adressed and fixed... btw honor od the dead is better for Pvp due to refund...
You still ride the same train of thoughts, that jabs actually hit 60% harder than dizzy. It just does not in PvP. We tried explaining you why jabs needs a higher base tooltip and we tried explaining to you, that it does not translate 1 to 1 to its actual damage in PvP. I can tell you again, that average damage numbers of jabs are pretty much the same as dizzying swing and nowhere near leap. But you just ignore it.
Many people told you to l2p, play the class yourself and learn how jabs play out in the end. You also will learn quite a bit how to counter the skill by doing so. Untill you did that, your crying wont be more than some mimimi noise to the ears of the veteran and actual good players.
About the matriarch heal: the heals is like 40% stronger than breath of life (or honor the dead) by simply having a viable petsorc build. No investing into cps, no just max out magicka, a simple pet sorc build. And thats compared to a magplar build, who has some cps set for increased healing. But again, you just do not listen...
Because u ignore facts and correct numbers based on calculation how each skill works ...jabs do not need to have 60% more dmg.
Only defending one button spam class probably because u do not have any other..
You know what...post the actual numbers and show is this 60% increase against which skills you're referring to. Getting tired of your lazy arguments with zero supporting evidence. You just cry to cry.
What class do you play?
How long have you played?
What gear and skills do you use?
Are you solo, group, in CP or Non-CP cyro, BGs?
F.e this link https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6495858#Comment_6495858
That thread was called buff other spammables and not "nerf jabs". And also in original post it is mentioned that reasoning behind buff of dizzy and flurry was passives attached to jabs, not jabs themselves. Given that already ZOS "buffed" dizzy to compensate for off-balance, no need to touch jabs and dizzy at all right now. Buff flurry, make something with class projectile spammables so they won't be a trash against wings/shimmering/bol etc. No more nerfs plz.
One nerf needed jabs must be destroy ... templar must suffer but jabs is still far ahead other spamable... from my point of view ..
This is why ZOS has not nerfed Jabs. Because of posts like this from people like you and your "opinion". It is a bias, and that does not entitle you to demand unwarranted changes. Just because you're frustrated does not mean everything should change in your favor. Many players have the same bias about other classes as well, but the difference is they play those other classes to learn the mechanics and how to counter them.
I asked fornerf because it op and ok there is two options buff others or nerf one results is same.. you may dissagree i understamd somone who have jabs in his nice will protect jabs with his/ her life.. and jabs is stupidly op .. indeed i also sometime play templar but... this need to be neefed ...
I disagree. Jabs being OP is your opinion. You say this because you feel your tool-kit (which we still don't know what you're playing....) is underwhelming. Most classes may seem under performing against specific skills or classes because people simply do not know how other classes work in order to counter it, or they're really just not that good to begin with.
I main a Templar, so yes I will defend it. Reason is because the entire class has been so undeniably gutted over the past 5 years that it's really an accomplishment of ZOS to remove so much class identity from a core class! However, with all that being said I also played Stamblade, StamDK, Magplar, MagDK, Stamden all quite equally to how much time I spend on my Stamplar (before I left ESO - which was maybe a couple of weeks into Elswyr) and I do just fine with all of those classes, if not better! I find StamDK to be easy-mode compared to my Stamplar. Better healing, better burst, better defense and great combos! I even turned my MagDK into a Bomber and do great in open Cyro.
It's all about learning the game and playing it at a higher level than you currently are. Once you get to higher level MMR BG's, consistently rank tops in Cyrodiil and/or play progressive Trials (if that's your cup of tea), then you can start giving feedback about the game's inconsistencies. But to be a newer player and just demand demand demand because you feel it's unfair that you're not winning is a bold-faced fantasy that is becoming more and more common among gamers.
Lol how you can know you are on higher mmr?? ... that i ignore your question its not mean i new just non ineterested to answer to some noob who lost arguments and try to strike discuters with personal attack like 5year child... . before reset mmr i have to wait for bg 20-30 mins and meet in every bg ussuly same people snd you was not in that companies.. ... deathmatch like 15 mins with few kills so that reason i seee sweep as best ulti because is best on keepimg presure ... i have nearly all classs ( ecept stamnecro) spent more 3000 hours over 5 years unfortenetly last two years do not have much time to play . my kills ratio is more then 3:1 kills 4:1 assistnce on all clases i play only random(ecept stamden currently i have time to keep gear updated stamblade, magsorc, swarden, i not my templar because it for lames and there was no chalange expecially on magden simmiliar case for mag sorc but its my, ....
So, you're saying you have been playing since PC launch, or close to PC launch? You're saying I lost arguments when all of mine have been valid with evidence to support? The only evidence you have provided is some half-baked statement of an old thread, which the OP clearly showcased how out-of-date that thread was and is no longer valid to date...
If you're a launch veteran, you should know how long Templars have been in the bottom, or next to, for years. Yet, here you are requesting a nerf thread because you can't compensate?!
Ok buddy
Tenplars was on the buttom i agree, but this is not reason to make them op now or you think it is reason?? Same case to mag sorc they were stupidly op killing machine but the rewason why destroy them now?? From my point of view no ..
All of your "evidence" or suggestion is from your point of view, which is an opinion. It is not factual, no matter how badly you want it to be. I don't think that Templars being on the bottom is reason for them to be made on top. In fact, I think Templars are in a great spot currently, certainly not on top, though. StamDK's still shred most PVP content at the moment, hands down. How many Stamplars do you see in a BG match, on average? Maybe 1 or 2. Meanwhile, most commonly played classes in BG's are Stamden, StamDK, Stamcro and Magsorc. Magplars follow closely to those, but usually for heals in pre-mades. I see more StamNB Snipe spammers in BG's than I do other Stamplars.
What do you see in Open world Cyro? Generaly groups of Stamcros, StamDKs, MagDKs and healers of either Templars or Wardens.
I won't even begin to touch on Trial compositions because I don't do them often. However, Templars are not most desired for DPS roles, unless anyone can confirm this has changed?
Everything you say is "your opinion", which immediately voids any contribution you make to these threads as valid reasons for said nerfs.
Magsorcs, by the way, are still stupidly OP. Playing them solo in open world, however, is not easy. Right now, the only class that has been "destroyed" is Nightblades. Magblades more specifically.
No one have Ultimate patent for true . I share my point of view with calculation and my position you can have different opinion thats okay, jabs have more dmg then dizzy its fact. Should it have such more dmg? From my point of view no . You can have different position f.e stamplar should have holy kill ability to instant kill every one ..
People told you now many times, that yes jabs should have that much more damage than dizzy or any other spammable. You can say no and it doesnt matter, because it makes sense has this damage potential due to the very form of it being a non-target aoe casttime spell. Saying, it should have less damage is your opinion and thats it. Many others have a different opinion and also explained why? Its only you keeping your negative opinion ip despite valid and constructive feedback/explanation why jabs needa this damage. Did you read my long ass post today, where i quoted somebody doing some really basic math and shows that jabs in a normal pvp environment is as effective as any other spammable or slighly above? Slightly here means like a few % in the case of making it hit more than the average hits you normally get.
Yes its damage can super duper, but in reality its pretty much in the same level as any other spammable. But i guess thx for nit reading it.
No i dont defend my class and we all gave valid reason, why jabs needs that damage. If you come here state your opinion but not open for other arguments, then the forum is not a place for you. We gave you many reasons why and you just ignore it. Yes jabs has lots of damage as tooltip and yes it is needed to make up for the mechanics plagueing this skill. My long as shows, that the skill performs somewhere between a normal spammable and a delayed burst ability depending on the skilllevel of the templar. Thinking templars always hut the full channel is an utopia, since om average its like 2-3 hits of four and therefore fewer burning light procs. Its not just math with this skill, it requires actual skill to make it dangerous. Basic math doesnt apply here, because its an unique skill mechanicswise.
Sure its full forum, if 5 people speak for a nerf jabs thread. You know, that only people with some nerves left tend to answer in such stupid nerf threads? Its people like you bringing the game in this sad and boring state, asking for nerfs, when its not needed. Even martinidaniel, which you quoted for the math (which you didnt even do yourself, which shows a lot of bias), agreed that jabs and dizzy are in a good spot. Basiaclally its you and like five others ranting on the forum about templars or jabs. Back then it was a different story, when people raged about rune prison for example. Therefore I and other people (probably a lot of people not even writing in this thread) concluded this thread being about a l2p issue. I personally am very disappointed about the state of forum goers, since if it us about combat balance, not even 5% of threads and feedback is valuable, including this thread. Sry for this harsh feedback, but your logic of simply comparing one number to anothers is dumb and senseless. You ignore feedback of veteran players and get back to your numbers, which are fine according to martinidaniels. I dont know how to show it to you more clearly, but lots of people, even the creator of the numbers you used as backup, disagree with you. As others already said, play the game first for several thousands of hours and maybe then your feedback will change and is treated respectfully.3 -
yeyesil✭✭Can you people please stop asking for meaningless nerfs for the sake of god?
All classes have different types of combos to kill the target. It doesnt make sense to compare jabs with other spammables according to damagewise.
Of course jabs should do more damage than any other spammables.
Dks have a low cost huge damage ulti. On my stamdk it has 30k damage tooltip. If you combine it noxious breath penetration and dizzy stun ulti combo it deals massive amount of damage.
Wardens have possibly the best burst combo with shall+dizzy+ulti. So you have shalk for burst as much as jabs and you also have other spammables like dizzy. When compared to with templars combos you have more burst capacity as potl has 6 seconds to proc and shall has 3 seconds and you dont need to go full offensive for the full damage.
Nerfing jabs burning light will make the class one of the weakest like stamsorcs and stamnbs nerfs.
Hitting 10k+ with buggy knockback and snare leap is much more dangerous than most of the damage combos.
Before asking for nerfs please try that class and see by yourself. You guys just want your main to be the best.Edited by yeyesil on March 5, 2020 8:23AM5 -
Joinovikova✭✭✭✭SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »
You did not give any valid argument,why full cas Dizzy shold has such signifiicatn low dmg then jabs just say its hard to land .. thats all.. From my point of view and I also not alone... full forum i about this also other topic is much easier to dodge Dizzy since it is cast abilirt so you have 0,8s to dodge adn take 0 dmg 0 dmg.... Jabs is als AOE and have more range than dizzy..SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »
Fact: jabs has more dmg than Dizzy, it facts like 2 is simply bigger number than 1 (on normal number, I know there are cases and rule in math where it posible to discuss this topic...).. Question is it okay ? or not? I think no.. and no one provide any valid at least not valid argument for me why it shoudl be like this.. I understand zou and few people here to protec their class. I do same to my main.. no nerf needed..SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!
L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.
Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.
Jabs is not ok 60% dmg than any other spamable is simply not ok.. nerf it to be comparable to other spamable them Say something about L2P..
First of all, there are entirely way too many Nerf Jabs/Sweeps threads going around since Elsweyr dropped with an overwhelming amount of counter-feedback for anyone still complaining to not have had the chance to take advice from many other players (myself included). Second, there is more counter-play to Jabs/Sweeps than any other skill in the game. For some examples: Major Evasion, re-positioning behind and/or dodge-rolling, blocking, interrupting are a few. Jabs/Sweeps misses more than it hits within one channel. IF you are being tagged by all four Jabs/Sweeps from one channel, more than likely you are stationary and don't know how to maneuver around your target(s). Simply put, L2P is the last viable answer to Casuals who are unwilling to take the advice from better players...Deathlord92 wrote: »
I have to ask if you don’t play anymore why does this even matter to you? Why you here? How would you even know how op jabs are since you don’t play anymore?Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!
L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.
Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.
I stopped playing shortly after Elsweyr dropped because the game is getting stale and extremely homogenized. It doesn't matter to me, hence why my quote stated in the first line that these threads are hilarious to be still going on...I know how NOT OP Jabs are because I mained a Stamplar since Console launch and have seen all of the ups-and-downs with the Class. Now that it's finally in a good place again after years of being sub-par in comparison to other classses, everyone wants it nerfed because, simply, there are too many casual players that are used to playing P2W games instead of learning the mechanics of a game as complex as ESO's combat system and actually improving instead of expecting a W just because they feel entitled to it.
It is much easier to conterplay any other spamable 100000000% easier is counter dizzy than jabs, its nit okay have on game such toxic ability which have 60% more dmg then full cast easily 100% counter dodge skill .. evasion is stupid argument since 50% of class cannot have evasion ... or you suggested to use medium armor on mag class but Even with evasion jabs is still stronger then any spamable jabs should be stronger then other spamable but 60% is simply stupidy to much... ... its like matriach will have 60% more heal then any other heals ...
Actually its easy to get a 60% bigger healtooltip on matriarch than on other burst heals. Still nobody in here complains about matriarch heal...
Only in case when full stam templar compare healt to full stack magica sorc...
Wrong! Viable pet sorc builds can easely reach a 16k tooltip on matriarch. The average magplar has a 11-12k breath of life tooltip. Thats already 33%+ more healing. And thats mostly in the case of the sorc not using healing cps, meanwhile the templar does. If the sorc really wants to push his healing numbers, he could reach 20k+ heals, which ia more than your 60%. And thats compared sorc matriarch heal with the previous biggest burst heal in the game. Bow think about all the other class burst heals, which are lower than breath of life. The sorc can like this get 100% bigger heals than most classes.
Btw those are ingame numbers and not just base tooltips. Already said, that base tooltips are nir applicable to the game just like this. Same as jabs in game does not do as much damage as you claim. Damage numbers of jabs in game are on dizzy level and nowhere near dragon leap.
Jabs calculation is not based on base tolltip, find the topic about Stamina spamable its comparable of all spamable... ofcourse u can also build necro alfiq two different monster set to support magica and slot all magica increase ability and then u can have 60% bigger toooltip to standard templar.. but its non sense, yes matriarch is stronger heal but reasonable not 60% if jabs have only 30% more dmg then others spamable then it will be okay.. but currently is 60% ok for jabs best case dizzy on magsorc, avarage number is Even more then 60% i understand u protect your one button godplar, but this is simply not balanced and is toxic for the future of the game and should be adressed and fixed... btw honor od the dead is better for Pvp due to refund...
You still ride the same train of thoughts, that jabs actually hit 60% harder than dizzy. It just does not in PvP. We tried explaining you why jabs needs a higher base tooltip and we tried explaining to you, that it does not translate 1 to 1 to its actual damage in PvP. I can tell you again, that average damage numbers of jabs are pretty much the same as dizzying swing and nowhere near leap. But you just ignore it.
Many people told you to l2p, play the class yourself and learn how jabs play out in the end. You also will learn quite a bit how to counter the skill by doing so. Untill you did that, your crying wont be more than some mimimi noise to the ears of the veteran and actual good players.
About the matriarch heal: the heals is like 40% stronger than breath of life (or honor the dead) by simply having a viable petsorc build. No investing into cps, no just max out magicka, a simple pet sorc build. And thats compared to a magplar build, who has some cps set for increased healing. But again, you just do not listen...
Because u ignore facts and correct numbers based on calculation how each skill works ...jabs do not need to have 60% more dmg.
Only defending one button spam class probably because u do not have any other..
You know what...post the actual numbers and show is this 60% increase against which skills you're referring to. Getting tired of your lazy arguments with zero supporting evidence. You just cry to cry.
What class do you play?
How long have you played?
What gear and skills do you use?
Are you solo, group, in CP or Non-CP cyro, BGs?
F.e this link https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6495858#Comment_6495858
That thread was called buff other spammables and not "nerf jabs". And also in original post it is mentioned that reasoning behind buff of dizzy and flurry was passives attached to jabs, not jabs themselves. Given that already ZOS "buffed" dizzy to compensate for off-balance, no need to touch jabs and dizzy at all right now. Buff flurry, make something with class projectile spammables so they won't be a trash against wings/shimmering/bol etc. No more nerfs plz.
One nerf needed jabs must be destroy ... templar must suffer but jabs is still far ahead other spamable... from my point of view ..
This is why ZOS has not nerfed Jabs. Because of posts like this from people like you and your "opinion". It is a bias, and that does not entitle you to demand unwarranted changes. Just because you're frustrated does not mean everything should change in your favor. Many players have the same bias about other classes as well, but the difference is they play those other classes to learn the mechanics and how to counter them.
I asked fornerf because it op and ok there is two options buff others or nerf one results is same.. you may dissagree i understamd somone who have jabs in his nice will protect jabs with his/ her life.. and jabs is stupidly op .. indeed i also sometime play templar but... this need to be neefed ...
I disagree. Jabs being OP is your opinion. You say this because you feel your tool-kit (which we still don't know what you're playing....) is underwhelming. Most classes may seem under performing against specific skills or classes because people simply do not know how other classes work in order to counter it, or they're really just not that good to begin with.
I main a Templar, so yes I will defend it. Reason is because the entire class has been so undeniably gutted over the past 5 years that it's really an accomplishment of ZOS to remove so much class identity from a core class! However, with all that being said I also played Stamblade, StamDK, Magplar, MagDK, Stamden all quite equally to how much time I spend on my Stamplar (before I left ESO - which was maybe a couple of weeks into Elswyr) and I do just fine with all of those classes, if not better! I find StamDK to be easy-mode compared to my Stamplar. Better healing, better burst, better defense and great combos! I even turned my MagDK into a Bomber and do great in open Cyro.
It's all about learning the game and playing it at a higher level than you currently are. Once you get to higher level MMR BG's, consistently rank tops in Cyrodiil and/or play progressive Trials (if that's your cup of tea), then you can start giving feedback about the game's inconsistencies. But to be a newer player and just demand demand demand because you feel it's unfair that you're not winning is a bold-faced fantasy that is becoming more and more common among gamers.
Lol how you can know you are on higher mmr?? ... that i ignore your question its not mean i new just non ineterested to answer to some noob who lost arguments and try to strike discuters with personal attack like 5year child... . before reset mmr i have to wait for bg 20-30 mins and meet in every bg ussuly same people snd you was not in that companies.. ... deathmatch like 15 mins with few kills so that reason i seee sweep as best ulti because is best on keepimg presure ... i have nearly all classs ( ecept stamnecro) spent more 3000 hours over 5 years unfortenetly last two years do not have much time to play . my kills ratio is more then 3:1 kills 4:1 assistnce on all clases i play only random(ecept stamden currently i have time to keep gear updated stamblade, magsorc, swarden, i not my templar because it for lames and there was no chalange expecially on magden simmiliar case for mag sorc but its my, ....
So, you're saying you have been playing since PC launch, or close to PC launch? You're saying I lost arguments when all of mine have been valid with evidence to support? The only evidence you have provided is some half-baked statement of an old thread, which the OP clearly showcased how out-of-date that thread was and is no longer valid to date...
If you're a launch veteran, you should know how long Templars have been in the bottom, or next to, for years. Yet, here you are requesting a nerf thread because you can't compensate?!
Ok buddy
Tenplars was on the buttom i agree, but this is not reason to make them op now or you think it is reason?? Same case to mag sorc they were stupidly op killing machine but the rewason why destroy them now?? From my point of view no ..
All of your "evidence" or suggestion is from your point of view, which is an opinion. It is not factual, no matter how badly you want it to be. I don't think that Templars being on the bottom is reason for them to be made on top. In fact, I think Templars are in a great spot currently, certainly not on top, though. StamDK's still shred most PVP content at the moment, hands down. How many Stamplars do you see in a BG match, on average? Maybe 1 or 2. Meanwhile, most commonly played classes in BG's are Stamden, StamDK, Stamcro and Magsorc. Magplars follow closely to those, but usually for heals in pre-mades. I see more StamNB Snipe spammers in BG's than I do other Stamplars.
What do you see in Open world Cyro? Generaly groups of Stamcros, StamDKs, MagDKs and healers of either Templars or Wardens.
I won't even begin to touch on Trial compositions because I don't do them often. However, Templars are not most desired for DPS roles, unless anyone can confirm this has changed?
Everything you say is "your opinion", which immediately voids any contribution you make to these threads as valid reasons for said nerfs.
Magsorcs, by the way, are still stupidly OP. Playing them solo in open world, however, is not easy. Right now, the only class that has been "destroyed" is Nightblades. Magblades more specifically.
No one have Ultimate patent for true . I share my point of view with calculation and my position you can have different opinion thats okay, jabs have more dmg then dizzy its fact. Should it have such more dmg? From my point of view no . You can have different position f.e stamplar should have holy kill ability to instant kill every one ..
People told you now many times, that yes jabs should have that much more damage than dizzy or any other spammable. You can say no and it doesnt matter, because it makes sense has this damage potential due to the very form of it being a non-target aoe casttime spell. Saying, it should have less damage is your opinion and thats it. Many others have a different opinion and also explained why? Its only you keeping your negative opinion ip despite valid and constructive feedback/explanation why jabs needa this damage. Did you read my long ass post today, where i quoted somebody doing some really basic math and shows that jabs in a normal pvp environment is as effective as any other spammable or slighly above? Slightly here means like a few % in the case of making it hit more than the average hits you normally get.
Yes its damage can super duper, but in reality its pretty much in the same level as any other spammable. But i guess thx for nit reading it.
No i dont defend my class and we all gave valid reason, why jabs needs that damage. If you come here state your opinion but not open for other arguments, then the forum is not a place for you. We gave you many reasons why and you just ignore it. Yes jabs has lots of damage as tooltip and yes it is needed to make up for the mechanics plagueing this skill. My long as shows, that the skill performs somewhere between a normal spammable and a delayed burst ability depending on the skilllevel of the templar. Thinking templars always hut the full channel is an utopia, since om average its like 2-3 hits of four and therefore fewer burning light procs. Its not just math with this skill, it requires actual skill to make it dangerous. Basic math doesnt apply here, because its an unique skill mechanicswise.
Sure its full forum, if 5 people speak for a nerf jabs thread. You know, that only people with some nerves left tend to answer in such stupid nerf threads? Its people like you bringing the game in this sad and boring state, asking for nerfs, when its not needed. Even martinidaniel, which you quoted for the math (which you didnt even do yourself, which shows a lot of bias), agreed that jabs and dizzy are in a good spot. Basiaclally its you and like five others ranting on the forum about templars or jabs. Back then it was a different story, when people raged about rune prison for example. Therefore I and other people (probably a lot of people not even writing in this thread) concluded this thread being about a l2p issue. I personally am very disappointed about the state of forum goers, since if it us about combat balance, not even 5% of threads and feedback is valuable, including this thread. Sry for this harsh feedback, but your logic of simply comparing one number to anothers is dumb and senseless. You ignore feedback of veteran players and get back to your numbers, which are fine according to martinidaniels. I dont know how to show it to you more clearly, but lots of people, even the creator of the numbers you used as backup, disagree with you. As others already said, play the game first for several thousands of hours and maybe then your feedback will change and is treated respectfully.
.. jabs need nerf based on data and numbers which clearly show jabs are simply much stronger than other spamable..."usage of skills is L2P" . I am one of veteran player..I have my own opinion not follow sheeps I recomended to you to try have your position not only rely on others like "others say so its true for sure".. You can dissagree.. its defentily okay.. I share data argument why jabs should be nerfed, you can share also your arguments why it shoudl not be.. and ZOS DEVS will decide if it relevant or not.. NOT you, NOT me...NOT your templar protect group..0 -
FirmamentOfStars✭✭✭✭✭Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »
You did not give any valid argument,why full cas Dizzy shold has such signifiicatn low dmg then jabs just say its hard to land .. thats all.. From my point of view and I also not alone... full forum i about this also other topic is much easier to dodge Dizzy since it is cast abilirt so you have 0,8s to dodge adn take 0 dmg 0 dmg.... Jabs is als AOE and have more range than dizzy..SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »
Fact: jabs has more dmg than Dizzy, it facts like 2 is simply bigger number than 1 (on normal number, I know there are cases and rule in math where it posible to discuss this topic...).. Question is it okay ? or not? I think no.. and no one provide any valid at least not valid argument for me why it shoudl be like this.. I understand zou and few people here to protec their class. I do same to my main.. no nerf needed..SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!
L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.
Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.
Jabs is not ok 60% dmg than any other spamable is simply not ok.. nerf it to be comparable to other spamable them Say something about L2P..
First of all, there are entirely way too many Nerf Jabs/Sweeps threads going around since Elsweyr dropped with an overwhelming amount of counter-feedback for anyone still complaining to not have had the chance to take advice from many other players (myself included). Second, there is more counter-play to Jabs/Sweeps than any other skill in the game. For some examples: Major Evasion, re-positioning behind and/or dodge-rolling, blocking, interrupting are a few. Jabs/Sweeps misses more than it hits within one channel. IF you are being tagged by all four Jabs/Sweeps from one channel, more than likely you are stationary and don't know how to maneuver around your target(s). Simply put, L2P is the last viable answer to Casuals who are unwilling to take the advice from better players...Deathlord92 wrote: »
I have to ask if you don’t play anymore why does this even matter to you? Why you here? How would you even know how op jabs are since you don’t play anymore?Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!
L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.
Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.
I stopped playing shortly after Elsweyr dropped because the game is getting stale and extremely homogenized. It doesn't matter to me, hence why my quote stated in the first line that these threads are hilarious to be still going on...I know how NOT OP Jabs are because I mained a Stamplar since Console launch and have seen all of the ups-and-downs with the Class. Now that it's finally in a good place again after years of being sub-par in comparison to other classses, everyone wants it nerfed because, simply, there are too many casual players that are used to playing P2W games instead of learning the mechanics of a game as complex as ESO's combat system and actually improving instead of expecting a W just because they feel entitled to it.
It is much easier to conterplay any other spamable 100000000% easier is counter dizzy than jabs, its nit okay have on game such toxic ability which have 60% more dmg then full cast easily 100% counter dodge skill .. evasion is stupid argument since 50% of class cannot have evasion ... or you suggested to use medium armor on mag class but Even with evasion jabs is still stronger then any spamable jabs should be stronger then other spamable but 60% is simply stupidy to much... ... its like matriach will have 60% more heal then any other heals ...
Actually its easy to get a 60% bigger healtooltip on matriarch than on other burst heals. Still nobody in here complains about matriarch heal...
Only in case when full stam templar compare healt to full stack magica sorc...
Wrong! Viable pet sorc builds can easely reach a 16k tooltip on matriarch. The average magplar has a 11-12k breath of life tooltip. Thats already 33%+ more healing. And thats mostly in the case of the sorc not using healing cps, meanwhile the templar does. If the sorc really wants to push his healing numbers, he could reach 20k+ heals, which ia more than your 60%. And thats compared sorc matriarch heal with the previous biggest burst heal in the game. Bow think about all the other class burst heals, which are lower than breath of life. The sorc can like this get 100% bigger heals than most classes.
Btw those are ingame numbers and not just base tooltips. Already said, that base tooltips are nir applicable to the game just like this. Same as jabs in game does not do as much damage as you claim. Damage numbers of jabs in game are on dizzy level and nowhere near dragon leap.
Jabs calculation is not based on base tolltip, find the topic about Stamina spamable its comparable of all spamable... ofcourse u can also build necro alfiq two different monster set to support magica and slot all magica increase ability and then u can have 60% bigger toooltip to standard templar.. but its non sense, yes matriarch is stronger heal but reasonable not 60% if jabs have only 30% more dmg then others spamable then it will be okay.. but currently is 60% ok for jabs best case dizzy on magsorc, avarage number is Even more then 60% i understand u protect your one button godplar, but this is simply not balanced and is toxic for the future of the game and should be adressed and fixed... btw honor od the dead is better for Pvp due to refund...
You still ride the same train of thoughts, that jabs actually hit 60% harder than dizzy. It just does not in PvP. We tried explaining you why jabs needs a higher base tooltip and we tried explaining to you, that it does not translate 1 to 1 to its actual damage in PvP. I can tell you again, that average damage numbers of jabs are pretty much the same as dizzying swing and nowhere near leap. But you just ignore it.
Many people told you to l2p, play the class yourself and learn how jabs play out in the end. You also will learn quite a bit how to counter the skill by doing so. Untill you did that, your crying wont be more than some mimimi noise to the ears of the veteran and actual good players.
About the matriarch heal: the heals is like 40% stronger than breath of life (or honor the dead) by simply having a viable petsorc build. No investing into cps, no just max out magicka, a simple pet sorc build. And thats compared to a magplar build, who has some cps set for increased healing. But again, you just do not listen...
Because u ignore facts and correct numbers based on calculation how each skill works ...jabs do not need to have 60% more dmg.
Only defending one button spam class probably because u do not have any other..
You know what...post the actual numbers and show is this 60% increase against which skills you're referring to. Getting tired of your lazy arguments with zero supporting evidence. You just cry to cry.
What class do you play?
How long have you played?
What gear and skills do you use?
Are you solo, group, in CP or Non-CP cyro, BGs?
F.e this link https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6495858#Comment_6495858
That thread was called buff other spammables and not "nerf jabs". And also in original post it is mentioned that reasoning behind buff of dizzy and flurry was passives attached to jabs, not jabs themselves. Given that already ZOS "buffed" dizzy to compensate for off-balance, no need to touch jabs and dizzy at all right now. Buff flurry, make something with class projectile spammables so they won't be a trash against wings/shimmering/bol etc. No more nerfs plz.
One nerf needed jabs must be destroy ... templar must suffer but jabs is still far ahead other spamable... from my point of view ..
This is why ZOS has not nerfed Jabs. Because of posts like this from people like you and your "opinion". It is a bias, and that does not entitle you to demand unwarranted changes. Just because you're frustrated does not mean everything should change in your favor. Many players have the same bias about other classes as well, but the difference is they play those other classes to learn the mechanics and how to counter them.
I asked fornerf because it op and ok there is two options buff others or nerf one results is same.. you may dissagree i understamd somone who have jabs in his nice will protect jabs with his/ her life.. and jabs is stupidly op .. indeed i also sometime play templar but... this need to be neefed ...
I disagree. Jabs being OP is your opinion. You say this because you feel your tool-kit (which we still don't know what you're playing....) is underwhelming. Most classes may seem under performing against specific skills or classes because people simply do not know how other classes work in order to counter it, or they're really just not that good to begin with.
I main a Templar, so yes I will defend it. Reason is because the entire class has been so undeniably gutted over the past 5 years that it's really an accomplishment of ZOS to remove so much class identity from a core class! However, with all that being said I also played Stamblade, StamDK, Magplar, MagDK, Stamden all quite equally to how much time I spend on my Stamplar (before I left ESO - which was maybe a couple of weeks into Elswyr) and I do just fine with all of those classes, if not better! I find StamDK to be easy-mode compared to my Stamplar. Better healing, better burst, better defense and great combos! I even turned my MagDK into a Bomber and do great in open Cyro.
It's all about learning the game and playing it at a higher level than you currently are. Once you get to higher level MMR BG's, consistently rank tops in Cyrodiil and/or play progressive Trials (if that's your cup of tea), then you can start giving feedback about the game's inconsistencies. But to be a newer player and just demand demand demand because you feel it's unfair that you're not winning is a bold-faced fantasy that is becoming more and more common among gamers.
Lol how you can know you are on higher mmr?? ... that i ignore your question its not mean i new just non ineterested to answer to some noob who lost arguments and try to strike discuters with personal attack like 5year child... . before reset mmr i have to wait for bg 20-30 mins and meet in every bg ussuly same people snd you was not in that companies.. ... deathmatch like 15 mins with few kills so that reason i seee sweep as best ulti because is best on keepimg presure ... i have nearly all classs ( ecept stamnecro) spent more 3000 hours over 5 years unfortenetly last two years do not have much time to play . my kills ratio is more then 3:1 kills 4:1 assistnce on all clases i play only random(ecept stamden currently i have time to keep gear updated stamblade, magsorc, swarden, i not my templar because it for lames and there was no chalange expecially on magden simmiliar case for mag sorc but its my, ....
So, you're saying you have been playing since PC launch, or close to PC launch? You're saying I lost arguments when all of mine have been valid with evidence to support? The only evidence you have provided is some half-baked statement of an old thread, which the OP clearly showcased how out-of-date that thread was and is no longer valid to date...
If you're a launch veteran, you should know how long Templars have been in the bottom, or next to, for years. Yet, here you are requesting a nerf thread because you can't compensate?!
Ok buddy
Tenplars was on the buttom i agree, but this is not reason to make them op now or you think it is reason?? Same case to mag sorc they were stupidly op killing machine but the rewason why destroy them now?? From my point of view no ..
All of your "evidence" or suggestion is from your point of view, which is an opinion. It is not factual, no matter how badly you want it to be. I don't think that Templars being on the bottom is reason for them to be made on top. In fact, I think Templars are in a great spot currently, certainly not on top, though. StamDK's still shred most PVP content at the moment, hands down. How many Stamplars do you see in a BG match, on average? Maybe 1 or 2. Meanwhile, most commonly played classes in BG's are Stamden, StamDK, Stamcro and Magsorc. Magplars follow closely to those, but usually for heals in pre-mades. I see more StamNB Snipe spammers in BG's than I do other Stamplars.
What do you see in Open world Cyro? Generaly groups of Stamcros, StamDKs, MagDKs and healers of either Templars or Wardens.
I won't even begin to touch on Trial compositions because I don't do them often. However, Templars are not most desired for DPS roles, unless anyone can confirm this has changed?
Everything you say is "your opinion", which immediately voids any contribution you make to these threads as valid reasons for said nerfs.
Magsorcs, by the way, are still stupidly OP. Playing them solo in open world, however, is not easy. Right now, the only class that has been "destroyed" is Nightblades. Magblades more specifically.
No one have Ultimate patent for true . I share my point of view with calculation and my position you can have different opinion thats okay, jabs have more dmg then dizzy its fact. Should it have such more dmg? From my point of view no . You can have different position f.e stamplar should have holy kill ability to instant kill every one ..
People told you now many times, that yes jabs should have that much more damage than dizzy or any other spammable. You can say no and it doesnt matter, because it makes sense has this damage potential due to the very form of it being a non-target aoe casttime spell. Saying, it should have less damage is your opinion and thats it. Many others have a different opinion and also explained why? Its only you keeping your negative opinion ip despite valid and constructive feedback/explanation why jabs needa this damage. Did you read my long ass post today, where i quoted somebody doing some really basic math and shows that jabs in a normal pvp environment is as effective as any other spammable or slighly above? Slightly here means like a few % in the case of making it hit more than the average hits you normally get.
Yes its damage can super duper, but in reality its pretty much in the same level as any other spammable. But i guess thx for nit reading it.
No i dont defend my class and we all gave valid reason, why jabs needs that damage. If you come here state your opinion but not open for other arguments, then the forum is not a place for you. We gave you many reasons why and you just ignore it. Yes jabs has lots of damage as tooltip and yes it is needed to make up for the mechanics plagueing this skill. My long as shows, that the skill performs somewhere between a normal spammable and a delayed burst ability depending on the skilllevel of the templar. Thinking templars always hut the full channel is an utopia, since om average its like 2-3 hits of four and therefore fewer burning light procs. Its not just math with this skill, it requires actual skill to make it dangerous. Basic math doesnt apply here, because its an unique skill mechanicswise.
Sure its full forum, if 5 people speak for a nerf jabs thread. You know, that only people with some nerves left tend to answer in such stupid nerf threads? Its people like you bringing the game in this sad and boring state, asking for nerfs, when its not needed. Even martinidaniel, which you quoted for the math (which you didnt even do yourself, which shows a lot of bias), agreed that jabs and dizzy are in a good spot. Basiaclally its you and like five others ranting on the forum about templars or jabs. Back then it was a different story, when people raged about rune prison for example. Therefore I and other people (probably a lot of people not even writing in this thread) concluded this thread being about a l2p issue. I personally am very disappointed about the state of forum goers, since if it us about combat balance, not even 5% of threads and feedback is valuable, including this thread. Sry for this harsh feedback, but your logic of simply comparing one number to anothers is dumb and senseless. You ignore feedback of veteran players and get back to your numbers, which are fine according to martinidaniels. I dont know how to show it to you more clearly, but lots of people, even the creator of the numbers you used as backup, disagree with you. As others already said, play the game first for several thousands of hours and maybe then your feedback will change and is treated respectfully.
.. jabs need nerf based on data and numbers which clearly show jabs are simply much stronger than other spamable..."usage of skills is L2P" . I am one of veteran player..I have my own opinion not follow sheeps I recomended to you to try have your position not only rely on others like "others say so its true for sure".. You can dissagree.. its defentily okay.. I share data argument why jabs should be nerfed, you can share also your arguments why it shoudl not be.. and ZOS DEVS will decide if it relevant or not.. NOT you, NOT me...NOT your templar protect group..
I provider data in my long ass post yesterday, which explained why jabs high damage tooltip is valid. Well go and ignore it, since it does not fit your agenda. Also this is my own opinion, not from some other players. You just are ignorant to every bit kf information not fitting your wishes or your agenda, i get that.
Just a small summary from my post;
In a serious PvP environment, meaning duels, 1vX and Xv1 or XvX (in the last one jabs is actually not even used much, because you jump into a deadly zone to even use jabs), the average hits of the four jabs lies between 2-3 of four hits. This was even tested multiple times in different environments. Naturally a good player hits maybe around 3, meanwhile an average or bad player more like 2 hits of the whole channel. Compared to other spammables, getting off 2 hits is damage wise on the same level as every other spammable attack. If you get three hits, its comparable with shalks or blastbones, but surely lower than the burst abilities like molten whip, c-frag or assassins will. And it does not even come close to ultimates. Burning lights damage already is included in those comparisons.
But guess you are not gonna listen as before. Even if people who were class reps responded and said, that you spout nonsense (class reps for your information are by ZOS acknowledged very experienced players with a wide knowledge of the game and its mechanics and several thousands of hours playtime on single characters). But guess you, especially you, know more about the game than these guys.
Also the devs will probably not even read this thread. Class reps may read it, since its their job gathering feedback. But they normally are sceptical in the forum, since there are „veterans“ like you, who still miss the knowledge to give accurate feedback. Therefore they have their trusted friends and own ways to get really relevant feedback. The reps will bring that feedback to the devs and they will maybe change something based on that feedback, if it fits their vision. So its most likely a mix of the devs plus gathered feedback from experts, which decides game changes. An exception would be if the forum goes crazy like 100s of people voting for or against a change. And in here its like 5 people advocating for a jabs nerf, because they got their ass beaten by some templars.1 -
ZOS_VolpeadminGreetings,
As we've removed a few non-constructive comments around baiting, please remember that while it’s all right to disagree or even debate with each other, provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!
L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.
Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.
Jabs is not ok 60% dmg than any other spamable is simply not ok.. nerf it to be comparable to other spamable them Say something about L2P..
First of all, there are entirely way too many Nerf Jabs/Sweeps threads going around since Elsweyr dropped with an overwhelming amount of counter-feedback for anyone still complaining to not have had the chance to take advice from many other players (myself included). Second, there is more counter-play to Jabs/Sweeps than any other skill in the game. For some examples: Major Evasion, re-positioning behind and/or dodge-rolling, blocking, interrupting are a few. Jabs/Sweeps misses more than it hits within one channel. IF you are being tagged by all four Jabs/Sweeps from one channel, more than likely you are stationary and don't know how to maneuver around your target(s). Simply put, L2P is the last viable answer to Casuals who are unwilling to take the advice from better players...Deathlord92 wrote: »
I have to ask if you don’t play anymore why does this even matter to you? Why you here? How would you even know how op jabs are since you don’t play anymore?Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!
L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.
Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.
I stopped playing shortly after Elsweyr dropped because the game is getting stale and extremely homogenized. It doesn't matter to me, hence why my quote stated in the first line that these threads are hilarious to be still going on...I know how NOT OP Jabs are because I mained a Stamplar since Console launch and have seen all of the ups-and-downs with the Class. Now that it's finally in a good place again after years of being sub-par in comparison to other classses, everyone wants it nerfed because, simply, there are too many casual players that are used to playing P2W games instead of learning the mechanics of a game as complex as ESO's combat system and actually improving instead of expecting a W just because they feel entitled to it.
It is much easier to conterplay any other spamable 100000000% easier is counter dizzy than jabs, its nit okay have on game such toxic ability which have 60% more dmg then full cast easily 100% counter dodge skill .. evasion is stupid argument since 50% of class cannot have evasion ... or you suggested to use medium armor on mag class but Even with evasion jabs is still stronger then any spamable jabs should be stronger then other spamable but 60% is simply stupidy to much... ... its like matriach will have 60% more heal then any other heals ...
Actually its easy to get a 60% bigger healtooltip on matriarch than on other burst heals. Still nobody in here complains about matriarch heal...
Only in case when full stam templar compare healt to full stack magica sorc...
Wrong! Viable pet sorc builds can easely reach a 16k tooltip on matriarch. The average magplar has a 11-12k breath of life tooltip. Thats already 33%+ more healing. And thats mostly in the case of the sorc not using healing cps, meanwhile the templar does. If the sorc really wants to push his healing numbers, he could reach 20k+ heals, which ia more than your 60%. And thats compared sorc matriarch heal with the previous biggest burst heal in the game. Bow think about all the other class burst heals, which are lower than breath of life. The sorc can like this get 100% bigger heals than most classes.
Btw those are ingame numbers and not just base tooltips. Already said, that base tooltips are nir applicable to the game just like this. Same as jabs in game does not do as much damage as you claim. Damage numbers of jabs in game are on dizzy level and nowhere near dragon leap.
Jabs calculation is not based on base tolltip, find the topic about Stamina spamable its comparable of all spamable... ofcourse u can also build necro alfiq two different monster set to support magica and slot all magica increase ability and then u can have 60% bigger toooltip to standard templar.. but its non sense, yes matriarch is stronger heal but reasonable not 60% if jabs have only 30% more dmg then others spamable then it will be okay.. but currently is 60% ok for jabs best case dizzy on magsorc, avarage number is Even more then 60% i understand u protect your one button godplar, but this is simply not balanced and is toxic for the future of the game and should be adressed and fixed... btw honor od the dead is better for Pvp due to refund...
You still ride the same train of thoughts, that jabs actually hit 60% harder than dizzy. It just does not in PvP. We tried explaining you why jabs needs a higher base tooltip and we tried explaining to you, that it does not translate 1 to 1 to its actual damage in PvP. I can tell you again, that average damage numbers of jabs are pretty much the same as dizzying swing and nowhere near leap. But you just ignore it.
Many people told you to l2p, play the class yourself and learn how jabs play out in the end. You also will learn quite a bit how to counter the skill by doing so. Untill you did that, your crying wont be more than some mimimi noise to the ears of the veteran and actual good players.
About the matriarch heal: the heals is like 40% stronger than breath of life (or honor the dead) by simply having a viable petsorc build. No investing into cps, no just max out magicka, a simple pet sorc build. And thats compared to a magplar build, who has some cps set for increased healing. But again, you just do not listen...
Because u ignore facts and correct numbers based on calculation how each skill works ...jabs do not need to have 60% more dmg.
Only defending one button spam class probably because u do not have any other..
You know what...post the actual numbers and show is this 60% increase against which skills you're referring to. Getting tired of your lazy arguments with zero supporting evidence. You just cry to cry.
What class do you play?
How long have you played?
What gear and skills do you use?
Are you solo, group, in CP or Non-CP cyro, BGs?
F.e this link https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6495858#Comment_6495858
"with 1 proc of burning light" so it adds in factors while ignoring every other factor such as classes with major fracture, targets having major evasion or minor evasion. It also takes away where other classes perform better in some areas where others dont to just focus on a spammable ignoring the full picture. It also ignores battle spirit which reduces the gap.
So my tooltip of jabs is 18380 landing all 4. Same build, Dizzy is 14541. Battlespirit makes Jabs 9190, Dizzy 7270. So I am at jabs being 21% stronger. Major evasion then has jabs at 6892.5 so 5.2% weaker than dizzy. And thats it going spammable to spammable. You could argue I am doing the same by counting major evasion, and that would be part of the point. All things are not equal but I would totally accept jabes being nerfed by 21% then being considered single target with splash.
You throw in burning light, and you need to throw in every other class passive and weapon passive. There might be an argument that burning light needs nerfed but someone will really have to get into all the other passives collectively to show that.
After thinking about it, I wouldn't accept the nerf to jabs if they made it single target worh splash. Its 21% more than dizzy without major evasion on the target, and it's also a 20% longer channel. Dead even with 0 outside sources considered1 -
worrallj✭✭✭✭✭Ok, just to clear out something: templar is nothing but spam extra damage class without much deeper understanding of pvp and mechanics. Its way OP class usually played by lazy players who don't wanna or don't have time to learn.
And it's not fair toward other classes which need strategy to be played.
So it deserves nerf.
Dot.
I disagree.
First, pvp in my experience right now is slightly more dominated by sorcs and DKs, at least in terms of numbers.
Second, to the extent there's a single cookie cutter build that's OP, I'd point the finger at all those warrior's fury 2-hander builds that spam dizzying swing and executioner. Those mofos hit like trucks and don't die. I think most of them are DKs, although I'm sure plenty are temps also. I would think any class could pull that style off though.
Crystal frag spammers are also dangerous, but once you get in their face they can actually be killed.1 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!
L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.
Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.
Jabs is not ok 60% dmg than any other spamable is simply not ok.. nerf it to be comparable to other spamable them Say something about L2P..
First of all, there are entirely way too many Nerf Jabs/Sweeps threads going around since Elsweyr dropped with an overwhelming amount of counter-feedback for anyone still complaining to not have had the chance to take advice from many other players (myself included). Second, there is more counter-play to Jabs/Sweeps than any other skill in the game. For some examples: Major Evasion, re-positioning behind and/or dodge-rolling, blocking, interrupting are a few. Jabs/Sweeps misses more than it hits within one channel. IF you are being tagged by all four Jabs/Sweeps from one channel, more than likely you are stationary and don't know how to maneuver around your target(s). Simply put, L2P is the last viable answer to Casuals who are unwilling to take the advice from better players...Deathlord92 wrote: »
I have to ask if you don’t play anymore why does this even matter to you? Why you here? How would you even know how op jabs are since you don’t play anymore?Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!
L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.
Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.
I stopped playing shortly after Elsweyr dropped because the game is getting stale and extremely homogenized. It doesn't matter to me, hence why my quote stated in the first line that these threads are hilarious to be still going on...I know how NOT OP Jabs are because I mained a Stamplar since Console launch and have seen all of the ups-and-downs with the Class. Now that it's finally in a good place again after years of being sub-par in comparison to other classses, everyone wants it nerfed because, simply, there are too many casual players that are used to playing P2W games instead of learning the mechanics of a game as complex as ESO's combat system and actually improving instead of expecting a W just because they feel entitled to it.
It is much easier to conterplay any other spamable 100000000% easier is counter dizzy than jabs, its nit okay have on game such toxic ability which have 60% more dmg then full cast easily 100% counter dodge skill .. evasion is stupid argument since 50% of class cannot have evasion ... or you suggested to use medium armor on mag class but Even with evasion jabs is still stronger then any spamable jabs should be stronger then other spamable but 60% is simply stupidy to much... ... its like matriach will have 60% more heal then any other heals ...
Actually its easy to get a 60% bigger healtooltip on matriarch than on other burst heals. Still nobody in here complains about matriarch heal...
Only in case when full stam templar compare healt to full stack magica sorc...
Wrong! Viable pet sorc builds can easely reach a 16k tooltip on matriarch. The average magplar has a 11-12k breath of life tooltip. Thats already 33%+ more healing. And thats mostly in the case of the sorc not using healing cps, meanwhile the templar does. If the sorc really wants to push his healing numbers, he could reach 20k+ heals, which ia more than your 60%. And thats compared sorc matriarch heal with the previous biggest burst heal in the game. Bow think about all the other class burst heals, which are lower than breath of life. The sorc can like this get 100% bigger heals than most classes.
Btw those are ingame numbers and not just base tooltips. Already said, that base tooltips are nir applicable to the game just like this. Same as jabs in game does not do as much damage as you claim. Damage numbers of jabs in game are on dizzy level and nowhere near dragon leap.
Jabs calculation is not based on base tolltip, find the topic about Stamina spamable its comparable of all spamable... ofcourse u can also build necro alfiq two different monster set to support magica and slot all magica increase ability and then u can have 60% bigger toooltip to standard templar.. but its non sense, yes matriarch is stronger heal but reasonable not 60% if jabs have only 30% more dmg then others spamable then it will be okay.. but currently is 60% ok for jabs best case dizzy on magsorc, avarage number is Even more then 60% i understand u protect your one button godplar, but this is simply not balanced and is toxic for the future of the game and should be adressed and fixed... btw honor od the dead is better for Pvp due to refund...
You still ride the same train of thoughts, that jabs actually hit 60% harder than dizzy. It just does not in PvP. We tried explaining you why jabs needs a higher base tooltip and we tried explaining to you, that it does not translate 1 to 1 to its actual damage in PvP. I can tell you again, that average damage numbers of jabs are pretty much the same as dizzying swing and nowhere near leap. But you just ignore it.
Many people told you to l2p, play the class yourself and learn how jabs play out in the end. You also will learn quite a bit how to counter the skill by doing so. Untill you did that, your crying wont be more than some mimimi noise to the ears of the veteran and actual good players.
About the matriarch heal: the heals is like 40% stronger than breath of life (or honor the dead) by simply having a viable petsorc build. No investing into cps, no just max out magicka, a simple pet sorc build. And thats compared to a magplar build, who has some cps set for increased healing. But again, you just do not listen...
Because u ignore facts and correct numbers based on calculation how each skill works ...jabs do not need to have 60% more dmg.
Only defending one button spam class probably because u do not have any other..
You know what...post the actual numbers and show is this 60% increase against which skills you're referring to. Getting tired of your lazy arguments with zero supporting evidence. You just cry to cry.
What class do you play?
How long have you played?
What gear and skills do you use?
Are you solo, group, in CP or Non-CP cyro, BGs?
F.e this link https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6495858#Comment_6495858
"with 1 proc of burning light" so it adds in factors while ignoring every other factor such as classes with major fracture, targets having major evasion or minor evasion. It also takes away where other classes perform better in some areas where others dont to just focus on a spammable ignoring the full picture. It also ignores battle spirit which reduces the gap.
So my tooltip of jabs is 18380 landing all 4. Same build, Dizzy is 14541. Battlespirit makes Jabs 9190, Dizzy 7270. So I am at jabs being 21% stronger. Major evasion then has jabs at 6892.5 so 5.2% weaker than dizzy. And thats it going spammable to spammable. You could argue I am doing the same by counting major evasion, and that would be part of the point. All things are not equal but I would totally accept jabes being nerfed by 21% then being considered single target with splash.
You throw in burning light, and you need to throw in every other class passive and weapon passive. There might be an argument that burning light needs nerfed but someone will really have to get into all the other passives collectively to show that.
After thinking about it, I wouldn't accept the nerf to jabs if they made it single target worh splash. Its 21% more than dizzy without major evasion on the target, and it's also a 20% longer channel. Dead even with 0 outside sources considered
dizzy doesn't proc burning light. a channel of jabs where only three attacks hit against major evasion with a burning light proc still does 20% more damage than dizzy.Edited by ecru on March 7, 2020 12:06AMGryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!
L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.
Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.
Jabs is not ok 60% dmg than any other spamable is simply not ok.. nerf it to be comparable to other spamable them Say something about L2P..
First of all, there are entirely way too many Nerf Jabs/Sweeps threads going around since Elsweyr dropped with an overwhelming amount of counter-feedback for anyone still complaining to not have had the chance to take advice from many other players (myself included). Second, there is more counter-play to Jabs/Sweeps than any other skill in the game. For some examples: Major Evasion, re-positioning behind and/or dodge-rolling, blocking, interrupting are a few. Jabs/Sweeps misses more than it hits within one channel. IF you are being tagged by all four Jabs/Sweeps from one channel, more than likely you are stationary and don't know how to maneuver around your target(s). Simply put, L2P is the last viable answer to Casuals who are unwilling to take the advice from better players...Deathlord92 wrote: »
I have to ask if you don’t play anymore why does this even matter to you? Why you here? How would you even know how op jabs are since you don’t play anymore?Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!
L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.
Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.
I stopped playing shortly after Elsweyr dropped because the game is getting stale and extremely homogenized. It doesn't matter to me, hence why my quote stated in the first line that these threads are hilarious to be still going on...I know how NOT OP Jabs are because I mained a Stamplar since Console launch and have seen all of the ups-and-downs with the Class. Now that it's finally in a good place again after years of being sub-par in comparison to other classses, everyone wants it nerfed because, simply, there are too many casual players that are used to playing P2W games instead of learning the mechanics of a game as complex as ESO's combat system and actually improving instead of expecting a W just because they feel entitled to it.
It is much easier to conterplay any other spamable 100000000% easier is counter dizzy than jabs, its nit okay have on game such toxic ability which have 60% more dmg then full cast easily 100% counter dodge skill .. evasion is stupid argument since 50% of class cannot have evasion ... or you suggested to use medium armor on mag class but Even with evasion jabs is still stronger then any spamable jabs should be stronger then other spamable but 60% is simply stupidy to much... ... its like matriach will have 60% more heal then any other heals ...
Actually its easy to get a 60% bigger healtooltip on matriarch than on other burst heals. Still nobody in here complains about matriarch heal...
Only in case when full stam templar compare healt to full stack magica sorc...
Wrong! Viable pet sorc builds can easely reach a 16k tooltip on matriarch. The average magplar has a 11-12k breath of life tooltip. Thats already 33%+ more healing. And thats mostly in the case of the sorc not using healing cps, meanwhile the templar does. If the sorc really wants to push his healing numbers, he could reach 20k+ heals, which ia more than your 60%. And thats compared sorc matriarch heal with the previous biggest burst heal in the game. Bow think about all the other class burst heals, which are lower than breath of life. The sorc can like this get 100% bigger heals than most classes.
Btw those are ingame numbers and not just base tooltips. Already said, that base tooltips are nir applicable to the game just like this. Same as jabs in game does not do as much damage as you claim. Damage numbers of jabs in game are on dizzy level and nowhere near dragon leap.
Jabs calculation is not based on base tolltip, find the topic about Stamina spamable its comparable of all spamable... ofcourse u can also build necro alfiq two different monster set to support magica and slot all magica increase ability and then u can have 60% bigger toooltip to standard templar.. but its non sense, yes matriarch is stronger heal but reasonable not 60% if jabs have only 30% more dmg then others spamable then it will be okay.. but currently is 60% ok for jabs best case dizzy on magsorc, avarage number is Even more then 60% i understand u protect your one button godplar, but this is simply not balanced and is toxic for the future of the game and should be adressed and fixed... btw honor od the dead is better for Pvp due to refund...
You still ride the same train of thoughts, that jabs actually hit 60% harder than dizzy. It just does not in PvP. We tried explaining you why jabs needs a higher base tooltip and we tried explaining to you, that it does not translate 1 to 1 to its actual damage in PvP. I can tell you again, that average damage numbers of jabs are pretty much the same as dizzying swing and nowhere near leap. But you just ignore it.
Many people told you to l2p, play the class yourself and learn how jabs play out in the end. You also will learn quite a bit how to counter the skill by doing so. Untill you did that, your crying wont be more than some mimimi noise to the ears of the veteran and actual good players.
About the matriarch heal: the heals is like 40% stronger than breath of life (or honor the dead) by simply having a viable petsorc build. No investing into cps, no just max out magicka, a simple pet sorc build. And thats compared to a magplar build, who has some cps set for increased healing. But again, you just do not listen...
Because u ignore facts and correct numbers based on calculation how each skill works ...jabs do not need to have 60% more dmg.
Only defending one button spam class probably because u do not have any other..
You know what...post the actual numbers and show is this 60% increase against which skills you're referring to. Getting tired of your lazy arguments with zero supporting evidence. You just cry to cry.
What class do you play?
How long have you played?
What gear and skills do you use?
Are you solo, group, in CP or Non-CP cyro, BGs?
F.e this link https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6495858#Comment_6495858
"with 1 proc of burning light" so it adds in factors while ignoring every other factor such as classes with major fracture, targets having major evasion or minor evasion. It also takes away where other classes perform better in some areas where others dont to just focus on a spammable ignoring the full picture. It also ignores battle spirit which reduces the gap.
So my tooltip of jabs is 18380 landing all 4. Same build, Dizzy is 14541. Battlespirit makes Jabs 9190, Dizzy 7270. So I am at jabs being 21% stronger. Major evasion then has jabs at 6892.5 so 5.2% weaker than dizzy. And thats it going spammable to spammable. You could argue I am doing the same by counting major evasion, and that would be part of the point. All things are not equal but I would totally accept jabes being nerfed by 21% then being considered single target with splash.
You throw in burning light, and you need to throw in every other class passive and weapon passive. There might be an argument that burning light needs nerfed but someone will really have to get into all the other passives collectively to show that.
After thinking about it, I wouldn't accept the nerf to jabs if they made it single target worh splash. Its 21% more than dizzy without major evasion on the target, and it's also a 20% longer channel. Dead even with 0 outside sources considered
dizzy doesn't proc burning light. a channel of jabs where only three attacks hit against major evasion with a burning light proc still does 20% more damage than dizzy.
Thats not jabs. Thats a passive. Again; if you take one, you need to start taking the entire passive kit of everyone and its an entirely different conversation than "nerf jabs"Edited by technohic on March 7, 2020 12:17AM3 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!
L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.
Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.
Jabs is not ok 60% dmg than any other spamable is simply not ok.. nerf it to be comparable to other spamable them Say something about L2P..
First of all, there are entirely way too many Nerf Jabs/Sweeps threads going around since Elsweyr dropped with an overwhelming amount of counter-feedback for anyone still complaining to not have had the chance to take advice from many other players (myself included). Second, there is more counter-play to Jabs/Sweeps than any other skill in the game. For some examples: Major Evasion, re-positioning behind and/or dodge-rolling, blocking, interrupting are a few. Jabs/Sweeps misses more than it hits within one channel. IF you are being tagged by all four Jabs/Sweeps from one channel, more than likely you are stationary and don't know how to maneuver around your target(s). Simply put, L2P is the last viable answer to Casuals who are unwilling to take the advice from better players...Deathlord92 wrote: »
I have to ask if you don’t play anymore why does this even matter to you? Why you here? How would you even know how op jabs are since you don’t play anymore?Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!
L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.
Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.
I stopped playing shortly after Elsweyr dropped because the game is getting stale and extremely homogenized. It doesn't matter to me, hence why my quote stated in the first line that these threads are hilarious to be still going on...I know how NOT OP Jabs are because I mained a Stamplar since Console launch and have seen all of the ups-and-downs with the Class. Now that it's finally in a good place again after years of being sub-par in comparison to other classses, everyone wants it nerfed because, simply, there are too many casual players that are used to playing P2W games instead of learning the mechanics of a game as complex as ESO's combat system and actually improving instead of expecting a W just because they feel entitled to it.
It is much easier to conterplay any other spamable 100000000% easier is counter dizzy than jabs, its nit okay have on game such toxic ability which have 60% more dmg then full cast easily 100% counter dodge skill .. evasion is stupid argument since 50% of class cannot have evasion ... or you suggested to use medium armor on mag class but Even with evasion jabs is still stronger then any spamable jabs should be stronger then other spamable but 60% is simply stupidy to much... ... its like matriach will have 60% more heal then any other heals ...
Actually its easy to get a 60% bigger healtooltip on matriarch than on other burst heals. Still nobody in here complains about matriarch heal...
Only in case when full stam templar compare healt to full stack magica sorc...
Wrong! Viable pet sorc builds can easely reach a 16k tooltip on matriarch. The average magplar has a 11-12k breath of life tooltip. Thats already 33%+ more healing. And thats mostly in the case of the sorc not using healing cps, meanwhile the templar does. If the sorc really wants to push his healing numbers, he could reach 20k+ heals, which ia more than your 60%. And thats compared sorc matriarch heal with the previous biggest burst heal in the game. Bow think about all the other class burst heals, which are lower than breath of life. The sorc can like this get 100% bigger heals than most classes.
Btw those are ingame numbers and not just base tooltips. Already said, that base tooltips are nir applicable to the game just like this. Same as jabs in game does not do as much damage as you claim. Damage numbers of jabs in game are on dizzy level and nowhere near dragon leap.
Jabs calculation is not based on base tolltip, find the topic about Stamina spamable its comparable of all spamable... ofcourse u can also build necro alfiq two different monster set to support magica and slot all magica increase ability and then u can have 60% bigger toooltip to standard templar.. but its non sense, yes matriarch is stronger heal but reasonable not 60% if jabs have only 30% more dmg then others spamable then it will be okay.. but currently is 60% ok for jabs best case dizzy on magsorc, avarage number is Even more then 60% i understand u protect your one button godplar, but this is simply not balanced and is toxic for the future of the game and should be adressed and fixed... btw honor od the dead is better for Pvp due to refund...
You still ride the same train of thoughts, that jabs actually hit 60% harder than dizzy. It just does not in PvP. We tried explaining you why jabs needs a higher base tooltip and we tried explaining to you, that it does not translate 1 to 1 to its actual damage in PvP. I can tell you again, that average damage numbers of jabs are pretty much the same as dizzying swing and nowhere near leap. But you just ignore it.
Many people told you to l2p, play the class yourself and learn how jabs play out in the end. You also will learn quite a bit how to counter the skill by doing so. Untill you did that, your crying wont be more than some mimimi noise to the ears of the veteran and actual good players.
About the matriarch heal: the heals is like 40% stronger than breath of life (or honor the dead) by simply having a viable petsorc build. No investing into cps, no just max out magicka, a simple pet sorc build. And thats compared to a magplar build, who has some cps set for increased healing. But again, you just do not listen...
Because u ignore facts and correct numbers based on calculation how each skill works ...jabs do not need to have 60% more dmg.
Only defending one button spam class probably because u do not have any other..
You know what...post the actual numbers and show is this 60% increase against which skills you're referring to. Getting tired of your lazy arguments with zero supporting evidence. You just cry to cry.
What class do you play?
How long have you played?
What gear and skills do you use?
Are you solo, group, in CP or Non-CP cyro, BGs?
F.e this link https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6495858#Comment_6495858
"with 1 proc of burning light" so it adds in factors while ignoring every other factor such as classes with major fracture, targets having major evasion or minor evasion. It also takes away where other classes perform better in some areas where others dont to just focus on a spammable ignoring the full picture. It also ignores battle spirit which reduces the gap.
So my tooltip of jabs is 18380 landing all 4. Same build, Dizzy is 14541. Battlespirit makes Jabs 9190, Dizzy 7270. So I am at jabs being 21% stronger. Major evasion then has jabs at 6892.5 so 5.2% weaker than dizzy. And thats it going spammable to spammable. You could argue I am doing the same by counting major evasion, and that would be part of the point. All things are not equal but I would totally accept jabes being nerfed by 21% then being considered single target with splash.
You throw in burning light, and you need to throw in every other class passive and weapon passive. There might be an argument that burning light needs nerfed but someone will really have to get into all the other passives collectively to show that.
After thinking about it, I wouldn't accept the nerf to jabs if they made it single target worh splash. Its 21% more than dizzy without major evasion on the target, and it's also a 20% longer channel. Dead even with 0 outside sources considered
dizzy doesn't proc burning light. a channel of jabs where only three attacks hit against major evasion with a burning light proc still does 20% more damage than dizzy.
Thats not jabs. Thats a passive. Again; if you take one, you need to start taking the entire passive kit of everyone and its an entirely different conversation than "nerf jabs"
Yeah, sorcs forget that they have +5% to ALL damage. And wardens forget that they have +2% to all damage simply from animal ability slotted. While templar have jabs/sweeps... but other abilities will do less damage then same abilities used by other classes. And because of aedric passives templar can't use another spammables effectively. And stamplar doesn't have any convenient access to major fracture, while every PVP class grabs major savagery simply by slotting camouflaged hunter. And Major fracture is another 8% to raw damage or even more depending on opponent's resistances.
So yeah when jabs hit, when BL procs, when POTL crits stamplar can literally explode opponent in 2 GCD from full HP. But when jabs hit air because of positional de-syncs or simply because opponent knows how to move, so BL doesn't proc and so POTL is not charged....2 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Joinovikova wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!
L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.
Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.
Jabs is not ok 60% dmg than any other spamable is simply not ok.. nerf it to be comparable to other spamable them Say something about L2P..
First of all, there are entirely way too many Nerf Jabs/Sweeps threads going around since Elsweyr dropped with an overwhelming amount of counter-feedback for anyone still complaining to not have had the chance to take advice from many other players (myself included). Second, there is more counter-play to Jabs/Sweeps than any other skill in the game. For some examples: Major Evasion, re-positioning behind and/or dodge-rolling, blocking, interrupting are a few. Jabs/Sweeps misses more than it hits within one channel. IF you are being tagged by all four Jabs/Sweeps from one channel, more than likely you are stationary and don't know how to maneuver around your target(s). Simply put, L2P is the last viable answer to Casuals who are unwilling to take the advice from better players...Deathlord92 wrote: »
I have to ask if you don’t play anymore why does this even matter to you? Why you here? How would you even know how op jabs are since you don’t play anymore?Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »I don't even play anymore and these exhausting Nerf Jabs threads still make me laugh!
L2P. Stop complaining. ZOS keeps catering to casuals and this is what the forum is made up of 70% of the time.
Jabs is fine and completely counter able. If you can't learn to beat it, don't play.
I stopped playing shortly after Elsweyr dropped because the game is getting stale and extremely homogenized. It doesn't matter to me, hence why my quote stated in the first line that these threads are hilarious to be still going on...I know how NOT OP Jabs are because I mained a Stamplar since Console launch and have seen all of the ups-and-downs with the Class. Now that it's finally in a good place again after years of being sub-par in comparison to other classses, everyone wants it nerfed because, simply, there are too many casual players that are used to playing P2W games instead of learning the mechanics of a game as complex as ESO's combat system and actually improving instead of expecting a W just because they feel entitled to it.
It is much easier to conterplay any other spamable 100000000% easier is counter dizzy than jabs, its nit okay have on game such toxic ability which have 60% more dmg then full cast easily 100% counter dodge skill .. evasion is stupid argument since 50% of class cannot have evasion ... or you suggested to use medium armor on mag class but Even with evasion jabs is still stronger then any spamable jabs should be stronger then other spamable but 60% is simply stupidy to much... ... its like matriach will have 60% more heal then any other heals ...
Actually its easy to get a 60% bigger healtooltip on matriarch than on other burst heals. Still nobody in here complains about matriarch heal...
Only in case when full stam templar compare healt to full stack magica sorc...
Wrong! Viable pet sorc builds can easely reach a 16k tooltip on matriarch. The average magplar has a 11-12k breath of life tooltip. Thats already 33%+ more healing. And thats mostly in the case of the sorc not using healing cps, meanwhile the templar does. If the sorc really wants to push his healing numbers, he could reach 20k+ heals, which ia more than your 60%. And thats compared sorc matriarch heal with the previous biggest burst heal in the game. Bow think about all the other class burst heals, which are lower than breath of life. The sorc can like this get 100% bigger heals than most classes.
Btw those are ingame numbers and not just base tooltips. Already said, that base tooltips are nir applicable to the game just like this. Same as jabs in game does not do as much damage as you claim. Damage numbers of jabs in game are on dizzy level and nowhere near dragon leap.
Jabs calculation is not based on base tolltip, find the topic about Stamina spamable its comparable of all spamable... ofcourse u can also build necro alfiq two different monster set to support magica and slot all magica increase ability and then u can have 60% bigger toooltip to standard templar.. but its non sense, yes matriarch is stronger heal but reasonable not 60% if jabs have only 30% more dmg then others spamable then it will be okay.. but currently is 60% ok for jabs best case dizzy on magsorc, avarage number is Even more then 60% i understand u protect your one button godplar, but this is simply not balanced and is toxic for the future of the game and should be adressed and fixed... btw honor od the dead is better for Pvp due to refund...
You still ride the same train of thoughts, that jabs actually hit 60% harder than dizzy. It just does not in PvP. We tried explaining you why jabs needs a higher base tooltip and we tried explaining to you, that it does not translate 1 to 1 to its actual damage in PvP. I can tell you again, that average damage numbers of jabs are pretty much the same as dizzying swing and nowhere near leap. But you just ignore it.
Many people told you to l2p, play the class yourself and learn how jabs play out in the end. You also will learn quite a bit how to counter the skill by doing so. Untill you did that, your crying wont be more than some mimimi noise to the ears of the veteran and actual good players.
About the matriarch heal: the heals is like 40% stronger than breath of life (or honor the dead) by simply having a viable petsorc build. No investing into cps, no just max out magicka, a simple pet sorc build. And thats compared to a magplar build, who has some cps set for increased healing. But again, you just do not listen...
Because u ignore facts and correct numbers based on calculation how each skill works ...jabs do not need to have 60% more dmg.
Only defending one button spam class probably because u do not have any other..
You know what...post the actual numbers and show is this 60% increase against which skills you're referring to. Getting tired of your lazy arguments with zero supporting evidence. You just cry to cry.
What class do you play?
How long have you played?
What gear and skills do you use?
Are you solo, group, in CP or Non-CP cyro, BGs?
F.e this link https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6495858#Comment_6495858
"with 1 proc of burning light" so it adds in factors while ignoring every other factor such as classes with major fracture, targets having major evasion or minor evasion. It also takes away where other classes perform better in some areas where others dont to just focus on a spammable ignoring the full picture. It also ignores battle spirit which reduces the gap.
So my tooltip of jabs is 18380 landing all 4. Same build, Dizzy is 14541. Battlespirit makes Jabs 9190, Dizzy 7270. So I am at jabs being 21% stronger. Major evasion then has jabs at 6892.5 so 5.2% weaker than dizzy. And thats it going spammable to spammable. You could argue I am doing the same by counting major evasion, and that would be part of the point. All things are not equal but I would totally accept jabes being nerfed by 21% then being considered single target with splash.
You throw in burning light, and you need to throw in every other class passive and weapon passive. There might be an argument that burning light needs nerfed but someone will really have to get into all the other passives collectively to show that.
After thinking about it, I wouldn't accept the nerf to jabs if they made it single target worh splash. Its 21% more than dizzy without major evasion on the target, and it's also a 20% longer channel. Dead even with 0 outside sources considered
dizzy doesn't proc burning light. a channel of jabs where only three attacks hit against major evasion with a burning light proc still does 20% more damage than dizzy.
Thats not jabs. Thats a passive. Again; if you take one, you need to start taking the entire passive kit of everyone and its an entirely different conversation than "nerf jabs"
Yeah, sorcs forget that they have +5% to ALL damage. And wardens forget that they have +2% to all damage simply from animal ability slotted. While templar have jabs/sweeps... but other abilities will do less damage then same abilities used by other classes. And because of aedric passives templar can't use another spammables effectively. And stamplar doesn't have any convenient access to major fracture, while every PVP class grabs major savagery simply by slotting camouflaged hunter. And Major fracture is another 8% to raw damage or even more depending on opponent's resistances.
So yeah when jabs hit, when BL procs, when POTL crits stamplar can literally explode opponent in 2 GCD from full HP. But when jabs hit air because of positional de-syncs or simply because opponent knows how to move, so BL doesn't proc and so POTL is not charged....
This is the issue right here. The ceiling is astronomically high compared to basically everything else. If jabs/BL did less damage but were more reliable, then it would be more balanced IMO. Right now you have a situation where if your abilities just work properly and you have only a little bit of good luck, you can instagib someone just by using a spammable a few times.
Gryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer0 -
Valdek✭✭✭Please note, I have previously posted to say that I think jabs is fine. Thought this death recap was interesting, however.
Look at how the damage compares with sub assault and mages wrath execute. Only 2 hits from jabs, 9k damage!
[img][/img]
1 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Please note, I have previously posted to say that I think jabs is fine. Thought this death recap was interesting, however.
Look at how the damage compares with sub assault and mages wrath execute. Only 2 hits from jabs, 9k damage!
[img][/img]
Man, I think you know tooltips of shalks and tooltip of BL. Difference between them is roughly 3 times. That means that either that warden was on utter no-damage build, or you have some serious resistances and stamplar was after onslaught.1 -
Morgul667✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Jabs do feel overtuned
Im just back but l it does feels so
Ofc i need to l2p again
Just restarting a stamsorc and struggling0 -
Valdek✭✭✭No idea! I've got roughly 26k armor, 2.5k crit resistance and minor protection (-8% damage). My deep fissure tends to hit other people for 3k.
Edit: Also, I very rarely see any ultis hit me for over 9k. So even with onslaught, this is high damage imo.Edited by Valdek on March 7, 2020 8:20PM0 -
Ozazz✭✭✭✭if concealed weapon and crystal frags got Nerfed along with every other *** ability on sorc & nb this ability can take a reduction as well. last time i hopped on my sorcerer it's wards couldn't even sustain jabs. this game realistically is in its sorriest state its ever been in, healing and tank classes over shadow thus the role of dps's way to progress zos
2 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I've been playing Magplar since I started in Summerset. Never once have I felt like the class carried me. If I told you that I have thousands more pvp losses than wins, you'd say it's because I just suck at the game. So that's going to be my response to the thread's opening post.0