Nerf jabs

JanTanhide

I died! Please nerf it! Geezus, give the nerf posts a break.

technohic

Joinovikova wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

While I don't think or want jabs nerfed, it's very clearly the best spammable in the game by a longshot. And with next patch nerfing dizzying, theres no spammable in the game which is even remotely close to the strength of jabs. It's pretty likely that on the next pts that jabs will be nerfed unless something changes in other spammables (which is pretty unlikely considering they just nerfed them).

The main problem ist jabs it self but give strongest spamable to classs which have best team support best heal best clean, super strong extremly cheap instant ulti.. and require zero skill to use this Power of the Light Toppling Charge or critical rush jabs LA sweep. When avarage Templar have better burst potencital then most of gang build NB something go wrong..
,

What is the best team support?

Wondering as you say they have the best heal, but in a team environment, matriarch does better as it hits more targets with full strength heals. And radiant regen cross healing is more the thing now.

You say best cleanse, and maybe for self but again in a group, purge is better because it requires no synergy so theres no cooldown and it even removes CCs from your allies which cant happen if they have to hit a synergy. Also, necros is pretty good to goven how cheap it is.

I'll give you the cheap instant ulti, but none of the others should have had them to begin with. They made them so short as to seem they only wanted to make them unable to animation cancel but lag makes them just not work half the time.

And you do know POTL/PL doesnt have the damage already when its put on you, right? And it only releases 20% of damage done while it's up? You should try it and see how easy it is to layer the damage on a competent target while they have a big beam on top of their head. Good luck if they have a purge. Then tell me who has 0 skill in order for it to do those big numbers.

There goes the NB drop again. I dont doubt NBs are down but the number that got the carry for so long have turned into whiners. Templars have no bigger burst than other classes and do not stick ot much in the big picture. They have the best spammable which proves to be unmanageable to bad NBs who just want to roll and cloak and win, but they dont have a 50% range damage reduction ability, no AOE root, no unblockable, undodgeable stun, no mobility tool, no disappearing ability, no teleport, no percent damage mitigation that stacks on top of resolve, no major mending. They just have the spammable and some myth that it's still 3 years ago and they have exclusive access to heals and cleanse.

clean 7830magica vs ritual 4762 necro clean is not cheap in Pvp because it cost health 1940 Health (so spaming this ability is not best idea..)

Sweep is strong Aoe no cast time or delay ability which is extremly cheap...

POTL/PL is strong due to jabs and sweep combo so even 20% is deadly...

range damage reduction ability strong range stun follow by toping charge? or

mobility tool acceleration with toping Toppling Charge?

no percent damage mitigation that stacks Channeled Focus/ Restoring Focus combination with Temporal Guard
?

Efficient purge is barely more expensive than ER. The health cost is less than the sum damage if 4 dots possibly ticking. We can also get into Warden free purges for keeping a buff up, or NB complete cancelled DOT damage via cloak.

Again. Try POTL/PL. If you are getting hit hard by it, you're a potato, but fine. Let's nerf the max damage to be close to shalks, relentless focus, frag proc, but let it copy 100% of the templars damage. See who that works out better for.

Your next 2 lines are incoherent. not even sure what you're talking about, but getting speed, everyone can, but being able to blink and teleport is an entirely different kind of mobility.

And I was talking about stacking on top of the protection and resolve buffs. Like relentless focus, bitter harvest, spirit gaurdian. Everyone has armor buffs and minor protection is relatively easy to come by.

Edziu

Joinovikova wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

While I don't think or want jabs nerfed, it's very clearly the best spammable in the game by a longshot. And with next patch nerfing dizzying, theres no spammable in the game which is even remotely close to the strength of jabs. It's pretty likely that on the next pts that jabs will be nerfed unless something changes in other spammables (which is pretty unlikely considering they just nerfed them).

The main problem ist jabs it self but give strongest spamable to classs which have best team support best heal best clean, super strong extremly cheap instant ulti.. and require zero skill to use this Power of the Light Toppling Charge or critical rush jabs LA sweep. When avarage Templar have better burst potencital then most of gang build NB something go wrong..
,

What is the best team support?

Wondering as you say they have the best heal, but in a team environment, matriarch does better as it hits more targets with full strength heals. And radiant regen cross healing is more the thing now.

You say best cleanse, and maybe for self but again in a group, purge is better because it requires no synergy so theres no cooldown and it even removes CCs from your allies which cant happen if they have to hit a synergy. Also, necros is pretty good to goven how cheap it is.

I'll give you the cheap instant ulti, but none of the others should have had them to begin with. They made them so short as to seem they only wanted to make them unable to animation cancel but lag makes them just not work half the time.

And you do know POTL/PL doesnt have the damage already when its put on you, right? And it only releases 20% of damage done while it's up? You should try it and see how easy it is to layer the damage on a competent target while they have a big beam on top of their head. Good luck if they have a purge. Then tell me who has 0 skill in order for it to do those big numbers.

There goes the NB drop again. I dont doubt NBs are down but the number that got the carry for so long have turned into whiners. Templars have no bigger burst than other classes and do not stick ot much in the big picture. They have the best spammable which proves to be unmanageable to bad NBs who just want to roll and cloak and win, but they dont have a 50% range damage reduction ability, no AOE root, no unblockable, undodgeable stun, no mobility tool, no disappearing ability, no teleport, no percent damage mitigation that stacks on top of resolve, no major mending. They just have the spammable and some myth that it's still 3 years ago and they have exclusive access to heals and cleanse.

clean 7830magica vs ritual 4762 necro clean is not cheap in Pvp because it cost health 1940 Health (so spaming this ability is not best idea..)

Sweep is strong Aoe no cast time or delay ability which is extremly cheap...

POTL/PL is strong due to jabs and sweep combo so even 20% is deadly...

range damage reduction ability strong range stun follow by toping charge? or

mobility tool acceleration with toping Toppling Charge?

no percent damage mitigation that stacks Channeled Focus/ Restoring Focus combination with Temporal Guard
?

I dont wanna to say...but have you even tried to check necro purge under battlespirit? last time when I was on pvp (last pvp even, midyear so not long ago) I was here on my stamnecro

I was surpised how I can spam this purge with not so much healing going on me so I needed to check and what I have seen is that battlespirit reduce your damage taken by 50% bu also necro purge...so in reality it cost you much less than 1k health while giginv back a bit of resources...as I tried on non tank build...this was for me insanely efficient purge for also resource gain till I was getting tons of damage on me besides just tons of debuffs

EDIT:
and btw about toppling charge...as we are talking here about stamplar...topling charge is magica cost..not so cheap..so this also is not that so often spammable for combo for stamplar which have to save his not big pool of magica for not cheap ritual anyway

Joinovikova

Edziu wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

While I don't think or want jabs nerfed, it's very clearly the best spammable in the game by a longshot. And with next patch nerfing dizzying, theres no spammable in the game which is even remotely close to the strength of jabs. It's pretty likely that on the next pts that jabs will be nerfed unless something changes in other spammables (which is pretty unlikely considering they just nerfed them).

The main problem ist jabs it self but give strongest spamable to classs which have best team support best heal best clean, super strong extremly cheap instant ulti.. and require zero skill to use this Power of the Light Toppling Charge or critical rush jabs LA sweep. When avarage Templar have better burst potencital then most of gang build NB something go wrong..
,

What is the best team support?

Wondering as you say they have the best heal, but in a team environment, matriarch does better as it hits more targets with full strength heals. And radiant regen cross healing is more the thing now.

You say best cleanse, and maybe for self but again in a group, purge is better because it requires no synergy so theres no cooldown and it even removes CCs from your allies which cant happen if they have to hit a synergy. Also, necros is pretty good to goven how cheap it is.

I'll give you the cheap instant ulti, but none of the others should have had them to begin with. They made them so short as to seem they only wanted to make them unable to animation cancel but lag makes them just not work half the time.

And you do know POTL/PL doesnt have the damage already when its put on you, right? And it only releases 20% of damage done while it's up? You should try it and see how easy it is to layer the damage on a competent target while they have a big beam on top of their head. Good luck if they have a purge. Then tell me who has 0 skill in order for it to do those big numbers.

There goes the NB drop again. I dont doubt NBs are down but the number that got the carry for so long have turned into whiners. Templars have no bigger burst than other classes and do not stick ot much in the big picture. They have the best spammable which proves to be unmanageable to bad NBs who just want to roll and cloak and win, but they dont have a 50% range damage reduction ability, no AOE root, no unblockable, undodgeable stun, no mobility tool, no disappearing ability, no teleport, no percent damage mitigation that stacks on top of resolve, no major mending. They just have the spammable and some myth that it's still 3 years ago and they have exclusive access to heals and cleanse.

clean 7830magica vs ritual 4762 necro clean is not cheap in Pvp because it cost health 1940 Health (so spaming this ability is not best idea..)

Sweep is strong Aoe no cast time or delay ability which is extremly cheap...

POTL/PL is strong due to jabs and sweep combo so even 20% is deadly...

range damage reduction ability strong range stun follow by toping charge? or

mobility tool acceleration with toping Toppling Charge?

no percent damage mitigation that stacks Channeled Focus/ Restoring Focus combination with Temporal Guard
?

I dont wanna to say...but have you even tried to check necro purge under battlespirit? last time when I was on pvp (last pvp even, midyear so not long ago) I was here on my stamnecro

I was surpised how I can spam this purge with not so much healing going on me so I needed to check and what I have seen is that battlespirit reduce your damage taken by 50% bu also necro purge...so in reality it cost you much less than 1k health while giginv back a bit of resources...as I tried on non tank build...this was for me insanely efficient purge for also resource gain till I was getting tons of damage on me besides just tons of debuffs

EDIT:
and btw about toppling charge...as we are talking here about stamplar...topling charge is magica cost..not so cheap..so this also is not that so often spammable for combo for stamplar which have to save his not big pool of magica for not cheap ritual anyway

Main problem is templar can clean all buff include Major Fracture and Major Breach and get also heal Necro need to pay by aproximelty 1K health is not less pay especialy in nn cp and necro require hard skill to play it..

Puncturing Sweep is simllliar story to jabs... but good hit thaats true for stam is better to use critical rush or Shield Charge

Ankael07

Joinovikova wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

While I don't think or want jabs nerfed, it's very clearly the best spammable in the game by a longshot. And with next patch nerfing dizzying, theres no spammable in the game which is even remotely close to the strength of jabs. It's pretty likely that on the next pts that jabs will be nerfed unless something changes in other spammables (which is pretty unlikely considering they just nerfed them).

The main problem ist jabs it self but give strongest spamable to classs which have best team support best heal best clean, super strong extremly cheap instant ulti.. and require zero skill to use this Power of the Light Toppling Charge or critical rush jabs LA sweep. When avarage Templar have better burst potencital then most of gang build NB something go wrong..
,

What is the best team support?

Wondering as you say they have the best heal, but in a team environment, matriarch does better as it hits more targets with full strength heals. And radiant regen cross healing is more the thing now.

You say best cleanse, and maybe for self but again in a group, purge is better because it requires no synergy so theres no cooldown and it even removes CCs from your allies which cant happen if they have to hit a synergy. Also, necros is pretty good to goven how cheap it is.

I'll give you the cheap instant ulti, but none of the others should have had them to begin with. They made them so short as to seem they only wanted to make them unable to animation cancel but lag makes them just not work half the time.

And you do know POTL/PL doesnt have the damage already when its put on you, right? And it only releases 20% of damage done while it's up? You should try it and see how easy it is to layer the damage on a competent target while they have a big beam on top of their head. Good luck if they have a purge. Then tell me who has 0 skill in order for it to do those big numbers.

There goes the NB drop again. I dont doubt NBs are down but the number that got the carry for so long have turned into whiners. Templars have no bigger burst than other classes and do not stick ot much in the big picture. They have the best spammable which proves to be unmanageable to bad NBs who just want to roll and cloak and win, but they dont have a 50% range damage reduction ability, no AOE root, no unblockable, undodgeable stun, no mobility tool, no disappearing ability, no teleport, no percent damage mitigation that stacks on top of resolve, no major mending. They just have the spammable and some myth that it's still 3 years ago and they have exclusive access to heals and cleanse.

clean 7830magica vs ritual 4762 necro clean is not cheap in Pvp because it cost health 1940 Health (so spaming this ability is not best idea..)

Sweep is strong Aoe no cast time or delay ability which is extremly cheap...

POTL/PL is strong due to jabs and sweep combo so even 20% is deadly...

range damage reduction ability strong range stun follow by toping charge? or

mobility tool acceleration with toping Toppling Charge?

no percent damage mitigation that stacks Channeled Focus/ Restoring Focus combination with Temporal Guard
?

I dont wanna to say...but have you even tried to check necro purge under battlespirit? last time when I was on pvp (last pvp even, midyear so not long ago) I was here on my stamnecro

I was surpised how I can spam this purge with not so much healing going on me so I needed to check and what I have seen is that battlespirit reduce your damage taken by 50% bu also necro purge...so in reality it cost you much less than 1k health while giginv back a bit of resources...as I tried on non tank build...this was for me insanely efficient purge for also resource gain till I was getting tons of damage on me besides just tons of debuffs

EDIT:
and btw about toppling charge...as we are talking here about stamplar...topling charge is magica cost..not so cheap..so this also is not that so often spammable for combo for stamplar which have to save his not big pool of magica for not cheap ritual anyway

Main problem is templar can clean all buff include Major Fracture and Major Breach and get also heal Necro need to pay by aproximelty 1K health is not less pay especialy in nn cp and necro require hard skill to play it..

Puncturing Sweep is simllliar story to jabs... but good hit thaats true for stam is better to use critical rush or Shield Charge

All the skills that apply Major Fracture/Breach are way cheaper than Purge. Warden and DK's come with their main damage abilities and cost about 2k each. Mark Target and Elemental Drain doesnt even have a cost.

Joinovikova

Ankael07 wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

While I don't think or want jabs nerfed, it's very clearly the best spammable in the game by a longshot. And with next patch nerfing dizzying, theres no spammable in the game which is even remotely close to the strength of jabs. It's pretty likely that on the next pts that jabs will be nerfed unless something changes in other spammables (which is pretty unlikely considering they just nerfed them).

The main problem ist jabs it self but give strongest spamable to classs which have best team support best heal best clean, super strong extremly cheap instant ulti.. and require zero skill to use this Power of the Light Toppling Charge or critical rush jabs LA sweep. When avarage Templar have better burst potencital then most of gang build NB something go wrong..
,

What is the best team support?

Wondering as you say they have the best heal, but in a team environment, matriarch does better as it hits more targets with full strength heals. And radiant regen cross healing is more the thing now.

You say best cleanse, and maybe for self but again in a group, purge is better because it requires no synergy so theres no cooldown and it even removes CCs from your allies which cant happen if they have to hit a synergy. Also, necros is pretty good to goven how cheap it is.

I'll give you the cheap instant ulti, but none of the others should have had them to begin with. They made them so short as to seem they only wanted to make them unable to animation cancel but lag makes them just not work half the time.

And you do know POTL/PL doesnt have the damage already when its put on you, right? And it only releases 20% of damage done while it's up? You should try it and see how easy it is to layer the damage on a competent target while they have a big beam on top of their head. Good luck if they have a purge. Then tell me who has 0 skill in order for it to do those big numbers.

There goes the NB drop again. I dont doubt NBs are down but the number that got the carry for so long have turned into whiners. Templars have no bigger burst than other classes and do not stick ot much in the big picture. They have the best spammable which proves to be unmanageable to bad NBs who just want to roll and cloak and win, but they dont have a 50% range damage reduction ability, no AOE root, no unblockable, undodgeable stun, no mobility tool, no disappearing ability, no teleport, no percent damage mitigation that stacks on top of resolve, no major mending. They just have the spammable and some myth that it's still 3 years ago and they have exclusive access to heals and cleanse.

clean 7830magica vs ritual 4762 necro clean is not cheap in Pvp because it cost health 1940 Health (so spaming this ability is not best idea..)

Sweep is strong Aoe no cast time or delay ability which is extremly cheap...

POTL/PL is strong due to jabs and sweep combo so even 20% is deadly...

range damage reduction ability strong range stun follow by toping charge? or

mobility tool acceleration with toping Toppling Charge?

no percent damage mitigation that stacks Channeled Focus/ Restoring Focus combination with Temporal Guard
?

I dont wanna to say...but have you even tried to check necro purge under battlespirit? last time when I was on pvp (last pvp even, midyear so not long ago) I was here on my stamnecro

I was surpised how I can spam this purge with not so much healing going on me so I needed to check and what I have seen is that battlespirit reduce your damage taken by 50% bu also necro purge...so in reality it cost you much less than 1k health while giginv back a bit of resources...as I tried on non tank build...this was for me insanely efficient purge for also resource gain till I was getting tons of damage on me besides just tons of debuffs

EDIT:
and btw about toppling charge...as we are talking here about stamplar...topling charge is magica cost..not so cheap..so this also is not that so often spammable for combo for stamplar which have to save his not big pool of magica for not cheap ritual anyway

Main problem is templar can clean all buff include Major Fracture and Major Breach and get also heal Necro need to pay by aproximelty 1K health is not less pay especialy in nn cp and necro require hard skill to play it..

Puncturing Sweep is simllliar story to jabs... but good hit thaats true for stam is better to use critical rush or Shield Charge

All the skills that apply Major Fracture/Breach are way cheaper than Purge. Warden and DK's come with their main damage abilities and cost about 2k each. Mark Target and Elemental Drain doesnt even have a cost.

The problem is u need to stack as much debit as posible if u want to have chance agains templar tank meta but Templar just can easily with clean it

Stx

I main templar, so obviously I dont want jabs to get nerfed. But it's such an overpowered ability mathematically, and also within the class kit.

Not only does jabs deal more raw damage, but it also procs burning light, gives a free source of major savagery, gives a free source of minor protection, and has splash damage....

It's insane.

I personally dont like the fact that jabs is so incredibly strong, because I actually want to use dizzying swing as my spammable. I don't really like the animation of jabs. But due to how amazing the class passive skills are when combined with jabs, I pretty much have to run it.

Edziu

do everyone remember how surprise attack was so op with major fracture in it? crystal frags with hgiher damage and stun in it? or every other spammable which was good (if that was good) and then nerfed to the ground so now you dont see any of those spammable but everyone around running with dizzy or ele weapon?

keep that way calling for nerfs and you wont see also jabs for diversity of templar and other classes lol
literlly every other will use only dizzy on stam or ele weapon on mag, no any other spammable because they will suck and so you wont be able to reconize which class you fight till he will use his single, maybe 2 class skills in his arsenal

it is so close to have literally no a single diversity skill between classes except passives which are invisible at all...

Joinovikova

Edziu wrote: »

do everyone remember how surprise attack was so op with major fracture in it? crystal frags with hgiher damage and stun in it? or every other spammable which was good (if that was good) and then nerfed to the ground so now you dont see any of those spammable but everyone around running with dizzy or ele weapon?

keep that way calling for nerfs and you wont see also jabs for diversity of templar and other classes lol
literlly every other will use only dizzy on stam or ele weapon on mag, no any other spammable because they will suck and so you wont be able to reconize which class you fight till he will use his single, maybe 2 class skills in his arsenal

it is so close to have literally no a single diversity skill between classes except passives which are invisible at all...

Frags was nerfed but still using by mag sorc surprise attack nerf still use by nb both of them was nerfed by reason. The reason was not allow to class just hit one button and LA. So why templar should be one button jabs class?? Why jabs should have 60% more dmg then dizzy?? No reason

technohic

Joinovikova wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

do everyone remember how surprise attack was so op with major fracture in it? crystal frags with hgiher damage and stun in it? or every other spammable which was good (if that was good) and then nerfed to the ground so now you dont see any of those spammable but everyone around running with dizzy or ele weapon?

keep that way calling for nerfs and you wont see also jabs for diversity of templar and other classes lol
literlly every other will use only dizzy on stam or ele weapon on mag, no any other spammable because they will suck and so you wont be able to reconize which class you fight till he will use his single, maybe 2 class skills in his arsenal

it is so close to have literally no a single diversity skill between classes except passives which are invisible at all...

Frags was nerfed but still using by mag sorc surprise attack nerf still use by nb both of them was nerfed by reason. The reason was not allow to class just hit one button and LA. So why templar should be one button jabs class?? Why jabs should have 60% more dmg then dizzy?? No reason

My dizzy swing is really close to the same tooltip as my jabs total. Not sure where you get this 60% more.

Just looked real quick. My jabs are 4100 x 4. Dizzy just over 13k so jabs is 25% more if it all lands. Of course dizzy is an "if it all lands", and then its overly simplified. maybe you crit 2 jabs, you get to 24k. If you crit 1 dizzy, its 26k just going of a fictitious 100% crit modifier on targets who should have crit resist, along with the fictitious 50% crit chance, but that's where we go down the rabbit hole.


Inb4 "but burning light "
Inb4 "but major evasion"

If you all would spend more time playing other classes rather than circular arguments, you'd be having a better time.

Edit: lol I was looking at this too early. Think it's more clear what I was looking at now

Edziu

Joinovikova wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

do everyone remember how surprise attack was so op with major fracture in it? crystal frags with hgiher damage and stun in it? or every other spammable which was good (if that was good) and then nerfed to the ground so now you dont see any of those spammable but everyone around running with dizzy or ele weapon?

keep that way calling for nerfs and you wont see also jabs for diversity of templar and other classes lol
literlly every other will use only dizzy on stam or ele weapon on mag, no any other spammable because they will suck and so you wont be able to reconize which class you fight till he will use his single, maybe 2 class skills in his arsenal

it is so close to have literally no a single diversity skill between classes except passives which are invisible at all...

Frags was nerfed but still using by mag sorc surprise attack nerf still use by nb both of them was nerfed by reason. The reason was not allow to class just hit one button and LA. So why templar should be one button jabs class?? Why jabs should have 60% more dmg then dizzy?? No reason

60% more than dizzy? interessing calculations
yet on pvp or even on pve I see even more nb using 2h instead of dual and using just dizzy and crystal frags..pff maybe they still use it...but still I dont see it so often like long ago..I still see more ele weapon

Aelorin

Sooo I can understand the OP's feelings. Jabs hit hard, and it is also a really agressive animation. Also if you try to run away, they just toppling charge you and begin jabbing all over again.

I am not a pro player, but I try to improve. I play a magwarden in PvP. At first I was really scared when I saw a sorcerer or a templar. I really felt like I had no chance against them. I did read the forums for info, I did change gear and builds.

As it stands now I am not afraid anymore when seeing a sorcerer or a templar.

When the jabs begin I
- switch do defensive bar to buff up and heal up, and activate polar wind
- Try to run or roll dodge through the templar.
- Try to stay close for the polar wind stun
- Begin my own combo
- When their health goes down to 50% they start to panic
- Really funny to see those Templars try to run away with their tails between their legs. As if they can outrun a warden ;-)

Alas this strategy does not allways work, and it is I who bites the dust. At least to me, it feels like it is a fair fight now.

So what I am trying to say is: Read forums or guides for advice, ask for advice for counters, think about the things you could do wrong or could do better, think about your builds and skills you can swap to counter those templars.

Let's say you encouter a lot of Nightblades: You switch a skill and set a detect skill on your bar.
So it's the same when you encounter a lot of Templars: switch skills to perform better.

Also there is this saying: If you can't beat them, join them ;-)

MartiniDaniels

Edziu wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

do everyone remember how surprise attack was so op with major fracture in it? crystal frags with hgiher damage and stun in it? or every other spammable which was good (if that was good) and then nerfed to the ground so now you dont see any of those spammable but everyone around running with dizzy or ele weapon?

keep that way calling for nerfs and you wont see also jabs for diversity of templar and other classes lol
literlly every other will use only dizzy on stam or ele weapon on mag, no any other spammable because they will suck and so you wont be able to reconize which class you fight till he will use his single, maybe 2 class skills in his arsenal

it is so close to have literally no a single diversity skill between classes except passives which are invisible at all...

Frags was nerfed but still using by mag sorc surprise attack nerf still use by nb both of them was nerfed by reason. The reason was not allow to class just hit one button and LA. So why templar should be one button jabs class?? Why jabs should have 60% more dmg then dizzy?? No reason

60% more than dizzy? interessing calculations
yet on pvp or even on pve I see even more nb using 2h instead of dual and using just dizzy and crystal frags..pff maybe they still use it...but still I dont see it so often like long ago..I still see more ele weapon

It is 60% higher with 1 BL proc accounted... but direct nerf will just ruin ability + whole class. Without jabs both stamplar and magplar will be meh. Jabs need a rework - like other players suggested something to make jabs more reliable but less punishing to players without major evasion. Maybe decrease damage of "main jab" by 20% but make it stick to target like ST spammable and that "main single target jab" wouldn't be considered aoe and so won't be decreased if target has one. (aoe jab component will remain the same)

Edziu

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

do everyone remember how surprise attack was so op with major fracture in it? crystal frags with hgiher damage and stun in it? or every other spammable which was good (if that was good) and then nerfed to the ground so now you dont see any of those spammable but everyone around running with dizzy or ele weapon?

keep that way calling for nerfs and you wont see also jabs for diversity of templar and other classes lol
literlly every other will use only dizzy on stam or ele weapon on mag, no any other spammable because they will suck and so you wont be able to reconize which class you fight till he will use his single, maybe 2 class skills in his arsenal

it is so close to have literally no a single diversity skill between classes except passives which are invisible at all...

Frags was nerfed but still using by mag sorc surprise attack nerf still use by nb both of them was nerfed by reason. The reason was not allow to class just hit one button and LA. So why templar should be one button jabs class?? Why jabs should have 60% more dmg then dizzy?? No reason

60% more than dizzy? interessing calculations
yet on pvp or even on pve I see even more nb using 2h instead of dual and using just dizzy and crystal frags..pff maybe they still use it...but still I dont see it so often like long ago..I still see more ele weapon

It is 60% higher with 1 BL proc accounted... but direct nerf will just ruin ability + whole class. Without jabs both stamplar and magplar will be meh. Jabs need a rework - like other players suggested something to make jabs more reliable but less punishing to players without major evasion. Maybe decrease damage of "main jab" by 20% but make it stick to target like ST spammable and that "main single target jab" wouldn't be considered aoe and so won't be decreased if target has one. (aoe jab component will remain the same)

ye this is right about PVP and in overall if jabs got nerfed them templar would be trash again outside PVP

all I dont wanna see...I dont wanna to see repeat of history when especiall stamplar was trash for good 2-3 years of this game

now it is enough to look at what they have done to stamnb after so long time of dominating on both PVE and PVP [Snip].

[Edited for bashing]

MartiniDaniels

Edziu wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

do everyone remember how surprise attack was so op with major fracture in it? crystal frags with hgiher damage and stun in it? or every other spammable which was good (if that was good) and then nerfed to the ground so now you dont see any of those spammable but everyone around running with dizzy or ele weapon?

keep that way calling for nerfs and you wont see also jabs for diversity of templar and other classes lol
literlly every other will use only dizzy on stam or ele weapon on mag, no any other spammable because they will suck and so you wont be able to reconize which class you fight till he will use his single, maybe 2 class skills in his arsenal

it is so close to have literally no a single diversity skill between classes except passives which are invisible at all...

Frags was nerfed but still using by mag sorc surprise attack nerf still use by nb both of them was nerfed by reason. The reason was not allow to class just hit one button and LA. So why templar should be one button jabs class?? Why jabs should have 60% more dmg then dizzy?? No reason

60% more than dizzy? interessing calculations
yet on pvp or even on pve I see even more nb using 2h instead of dual and using just dizzy and crystal frags..pff maybe they still use it...but still I dont see it so often like long ago..I still see more ele weapon

It is 60% higher with 1 BL proc accounted... but direct nerf will just ruin ability + whole class. Without jabs both stamplar and magplar will be meh. Jabs need a rework - like other players suggested something to make jabs more reliable but less punishing to players without major evasion. Maybe decrease damage of "main jab" by 20% but make it stick to target like ST spammable and that "main single target jab" wouldn't be considered aoe and so won't be decreased if target has one. (aoe jab component will remain the same)

ye this is right about PVP and in overall if jabs got nerfed them templar would be trash again outside PVP

all I dont wanna see...I dont wanna to see repeat of history when especiall stamplar was trash for good 2-3 years of this game

now it is enough to look at what they have done to stamnb after so long time of dominating on both PVE and PVP because of QQ ignorants not wanting to not even adapt but just not wanting to learn game, their class

Funniest thing when jabs nerf requests come from magsorcs... Magsorc is direct counter to templar, especially to stamplar because stamplar don't have anything that counters magsorc other then pretty expensive cleanse ti purge curse (solo magsorcs usually don't use wrath). DK has fossilize/wings to keep sorcs in check, NB have cloak/shade, warden has shimmering and free purge, necro have cheap purge and blastbones which "automatically" keep pressure on magsorc. Magplar at least have cheaper cleanse and ranged weapon to heavy attack etc. Stamplar has nothing other then 4800 cost cleanse after which magsorc simply re-applies curse again.

ku5h

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Funniest thing when jabs nerf requests come from magsorcs... .

No they don't. Most come from stamNBs and rightfully so, since it's perfect counter for Cloak in a spammable.

Salthy

ku5h wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Funniest thing when jabs nerf requests come from magsorcs... .

No they don't. Most come from stamNBs and rightfully so, since it's perfect counter for Cloak in a spammable.

Yeah, perfect counter if you try to cloak away from it. Only time I'll actually "spam" jabs.

Competent / well-built sNBs will not die in jabs spam, magblades with squishy builds (like mine) will need good shade placement.

ZOS_Volpe

Greetings,

We've had to remove a few non-constructive and baiting comments. Please remember that while it’s alright to disagree or even debate with each other, provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable on our forums.

MEBengalsFan2001

Levianna wrote: »

Ok, just to clear out something: templar is nothing but spam extra damage class without much deeper understanding of pvp and mechanics. Its way OP class usually played by lazy players who don't wanna or don't have time to learn.
And it's not fair toward other classes which need strategy to be played.
So it deserves nerf.

Dot.

And if you can't learn to walk away from the melee based attack is that on the templar killing you or you as a player?

Or let me put it in difference terms; you are in a vet dungeon. You run ahead of the group and met a mob and they lob a AoE at you and you stand in a red AoE that does 5K damage a second, it last 10 seconds. Is it the healers fault you ran ahead died because you didnt' move or because the healer failed to heal you.

Both scenario can be improved upon simply by moving. It is on the player getting stab to move and not do melee damage. Back away and dodge roll.

RiskyChalice863

I think some people here may not be realizing that not all situations are the same in terms of going against jabs/sweeps.

A Stam build in a CP environment wouldn’t find it too difficult to deal with it. Just block or roll through it and apply your damage.

But what about a Magicka build in no-CP? If this starts with a Toppling Charge, you’ve got to spend like 5400 stamina to break free. Then you have to roll through it? If you’re at only half stamina or so at the start, then you can’t even roll once and you’ll die because Jabs/Sweeps out-DPSes anything a magicka player has. And you certainly won’t be able to roll through it more than like one more time. Anyways, if you’ve broken free and dodge rolled once or twice, you’d better have somehow gotten the Templar on their back foot before your stun immunity wears off, because you definitely won’t have the stamina to break free and dodge roll again. Doing that probably requires using an ultimate or getting a lucky proc from a proc set, which isn’t balanced if that’s what you need to rely on to beat a spammable. Meanwhile, if you run away from the Jabs/Sweeps with an ability like Streak or Elusive Mist or Race Against Time, then they can just immediately gap close you unless you’ve gotten around a corner. You also don’t really have easy access to Major Evasion on most magicka builds.

Basically, Jabs/Sweeps are not so hard to counter in some situations, but with magicka characters in no-CP they actually are quite hard to deal with. You won’t have the stamina to keep avoiding them and break free, you will almost certainly lose a fight against them if you stand your ground, and they can pretty easily gap close you if you try to run away.

technohic

RiskyChalice863 wrote: »

I think some people here may not be realizing that not all situations are the same in terms of going against jabs/sweeps.

A Stam build in a CP environment wouldn’t find it too difficult to deal with it. Just block or roll through it and apply your damage.

But what about a Magicka build in no-CP? If this starts with a Toppling Charge, you’ve got to spend like 5400 stamina to break free. Then you have to roll through it? If you’re at only half stamina or so at the start, then you can’t even roll once and you’ll die because Jabs/Sweeps out-DPSes anything a magicka player has. And you certainly won’t be able to roll through it more than like one more time. Anyways, if you’ve broken free and dodge rolled once or twice, you’d better have somehow gotten the Templar on their back foot before your stun immunity wears off, because you definitely won’t have the stamina to break free and dodge roll again. Doing that probably requires using an ultimate or getting a lucky proc from a proc set, which isn’t balanced if that’s what you need to rely on to beat a spammable. Meanwhile, if you run away from the Jabs/Sweeps with an ability like Streak or Elusive Mist or Race Against Time, then they can just immediately gap close you unless you’ve gotten around a corner. You also don’t really have easy access to Major Evasion on most magicka builds.

Basically, Jabs/Sweeps are not so hard to counter in some situations, but with magicka characters in no-CP they actually are quite hard to deal with. You won’t have the stamina to keep avoiding them and break free, you will almost certainly lose a fight against them if you stand your ground, and they can pretty easily gap close you if you try to run away.

You need to do that with most classes on you. A MagDK will stun and root you in one ability.

Kadoin

RiskyChalice863 wrote: »

I think some people here may not be realizing that not all situations are the same in terms of going against jabs/sweeps.

A Stam build in a CP environment wouldn’t find it too difficult to deal with it. Just block or roll through it and apply your damage.

But what about a Magicka build in no-CP? If this starts with a Toppling Charge, you’ve got to spend like 5400 stamina to break free. Then you have to roll through it? If you’re at only half stamina or so at the start, then you can’t even roll once and you’ll die because Jabs/Sweeps out-DPSes anything a magicka player has. And you certainly won’t be able to roll through it more than like one more time. Anyways, if you’ve broken free and dodge rolled once or twice, you’d better have somehow gotten the Templar on their back foot before your stun immunity wears off, because you definitely won’t have the stamina to break free and dodge roll again. Doing that probably requires using an ultimate or getting a lucky proc from a proc set, which isn’t balanced if that’s what you need to rely on to beat a spammable. Meanwhile, if you run away from the Jabs/Sweeps with an ability like Streak or Elusive Mist or Race Against Time, then they can just immediately gap close you unless you’ve gotten around a corner. You also don’t really have easy access to Major Evasion on most magicka builds.

Basically, Jabs/Sweeps are not so hard to counter in some situations, but with magicka characters in no-CP they actually are quite hard to deal with. You won’t have the stamina to keep avoiding them and break free, you will almost certainly lose a fight against them if you stand your ground, and they can pretty easily gap close you if you try to run away.

How does that make it a jabs problem? CC is punishing on mag in noCP regardless of class, and still punishing in CP. ZOS could always help alleviate the problem by adjusting light armor passives, but instead, when they had the chance to do so, they added snare reduction to light armor.

Snare reduction instead of break free cost reduction...

There's also no real native way to get major evasion on many mag specs in the game, and it requires either using dual wield on a mag build or wearing a set like gossamer. But again, this is not a jabs problem.

Nerfing jabs because of those two things will not accomplish anything because there will simply be another skill that does the same thing on another class, there will simply be a proc set added to achieve the same thing, there will simply be another way to jab or build to accomplish the same thing. All it will do is nerf the templars that you don't have a problem with and make them move towards builds you will.

If anything you should be calling on ZOS to do something about the mag v. stam imbalance that they and others continue to pretend doesn't exist.

Vyvrhel

ZOS please do not EVER nerf anything. It never helps and it only makes people angry. Look at the damage you already did to nightblade and sorcerer. Literally everything what works gets nerfed to the ground since people are bitching in rage when owned in PvP.

notyuu

Ok, so there's four different things the devs could do in relation to jabs

1: nerf jabs
result: stamplar loses one of the TWO class powers it uses, magplar doesn't give a ***
rating: 2/10

2: every other spamable gets buffed to jabs level
result: mag users cry harder
rating: 3/10

3: zos does nothing
result: things carry on the same, with people like op crying due to not being able to figure out they can dodge roll through the jabs user to avoid a bulk of the damage
rating: 5/10

4: zos nerfs/tweaks burning light
result: jabs loses the one part that makes it disgustingly strong without destroying the underlying ability
rating: 10/10

xshatox

To be clear you are asking for biting jabs nerfed right? not puncturing strikes?
If so then I am okay and totally support you since I am playing as magplar in PVP right now. Where else you got a skill that can do direct damage, overtime damage, heal, soft cc (slow) with cheap cost.

Grianasteri

Nerf people who ask for nerfs.

That said, the jab jab jab rotation is pretty OP, but its great fun ;-)

Thing is, dodge, move, stun.

WreckfulAbandon

xshatox wrote: »

To be clear you are asking for biting jabs nerfed right? not puncturing strikes?
If so then I am okay and totally support you since I am playing as magplar in PVP right now. Where else you got a skill that can do direct damage, overtime damage, heal, soft cc (slow) with cheap cost.

That's not how any of this works. Your Sweeps is gonna get nerfed too if you get what you just asked for here.

I don't even know what else to add that hasn't already been stated a bunch of times.

If you build right and L2P, you can counter Jabs without Major Evasion or Major Protection. And those tools are obviously there to help you as well.

RiskyChalice863

technohic wrote: »

RiskyChalice863 wrote: »

I think some people here may not be realizing that not all situations are the same in terms of going against jabs/sweeps.

A Stam build in a CP environment wouldn’t find it too difficult to deal with it. Just block or roll through it and apply your damage.

But what about a Magicka build in no-CP? If this starts with a Toppling Charge, you’ve got to spend like 5400 stamina to break free. Then you have to roll through it? If you’re at only half stamina or so at the start, then you can’t even roll once and you’ll die because Jabs/Sweeps out-DPSes anything a magicka player has. And you certainly won’t be able to roll through it more than like one more time. Anyways, if you’ve broken free and dodge rolled once or twice, you’d better have somehow gotten the Templar on their back foot before your stun immunity wears off, because you definitely won’t have the stamina to break free and dodge roll again. Doing that probably requires using an ultimate or getting a lucky proc from a proc set, which isn’t balanced if that’s what you need to rely on to beat a spammable. Meanwhile, if you run away from the Jabs/Sweeps with an ability like Streak or Elusive Mist or Race Against Time, then they can just immediately gap close you unless you’ve gotten around a corner. You also don’t really have easy access to Major Evasion on most magicka builds.

Basically, Jabs/Sweeps are not so hard to counter in some situations, but with magicka characters in no-CP they actually are quite hard to deal with. You won’t have the stamina to keep avoiding them and break free, you will almost certainly lose a fight against them if you stand your ground, and they can pretty easily gap close you if you try to run away.

You need to do that with most classes on you. A MagDK will stun and root you in one ability.

MagDKs are hard to deal with for Magicka characters in no-CP for that exact reason. But there is a difference. If you’re out of stamina for dodge rolling and basically just have to stand and fight, you can beat a MagDK. A MagDK simply cant output the kind of sustained damage that Jabs/Sweeps can. Not even close. Same goes for every other Magicka class. Jabs/Sweeps with Burning Light provides sustained damage much greater than anything non-Templar magicka classes can do. It’s basically the equivalent of an ultimate or a delayed burst ability every single second. For example, on equal stats, a full Jabs/Sweeps with a Burning Light proc does roughly equal damage to the Merciless Resolve proc or a fully charged Molten Whip or a Ferocious Leap.

Because Jabs/Sweeps with Burning Light do so much sustained damage, you basically have to kite it or have Major Evasion to actually beat it, and magicka characters in no-CP can’t really do either (aside from Magblades having access to major evasion). The only other hope you usually have if the Templar is decent is to get some kind of huge burst, likely with help of an ultimate or lucky procs of proc sets. It can be done, but relying on that to beat a spammable isn’t exactly balanced, since they could also use their own ultimates and whatnot. And bursting people from full health to zero in no-CP is much harder than in CP anyways.

I play a lot of magicka characters in no-CP. And honestly, unless I’m on my own Magplar, when faced with a Templar in BGs, here’s what I basically have to do: I try rolling through the Jabs/Sweeps. If a player is bad, that can confuse them and give me enough of an opening to punish them. If they show themselves to be decent players though, I basically just stun them and run away around a corner unless either I’ve got teammates with me or an ultimate up.

And by the way, this is coming from someone whose most-played character by far is a Magplar. I like Sweeps a lot when I use them, of course, but they really do wreck magicka characters in no-CP.

RiskyChalice863

I will also note that it’s not exactly right that Burning Light procs only 70% of the time. That’s true in a sense, but I believe it ignores the fact that you can also get two Burning Light procs in one Jabs/Sweeps, as Burning Light can proc every 0.5 seconds and Jabs/Sweeps lasts 1 second. Jabs has 4 hits that last 1 second total, so the hits should be at 0 seconds, 0.33 seconds, 0.67 seconds, and 1 second. This should mean Burning Light can proc on both the 1st and 3rd hits, both the 1st and 4th hits, and the 2nd and 4th hits. (Note: this should still be true even if the hits are instead at 0.25, 0.5, 0.75, and 1 second).

So here’s the thing. There is a 31.6% chance that Burning Light doesn’t proc on Jabs (0.75^4). However, there is a 6.25% chance it procs on the first AND third hits of Jabs (0.25*0.25). There is a 4.69% chance it procs on the first and fourth hits of Jabs (0.25*0.75*0.25).* There is also a 4.69% chance it procs on the second and fourth hits of Jabs (0.75*0.25*0.25).**

So, overall, there’s a 31.6% chance that Burning Light doesn’t proc, but also a 15.63% chance Burning Light procs twice. The end result, then, is that the expected number of Burning Light procs per Jabs/Sweeps averages out to 0.84, rather than 0.7.

* The reason for this percentage is that you’ve got a 25% chance of proccing on the first hit. Then you’ve got a 75% chance that it doesn’t proc in the third hit (which would prevent it from proccing on the fourth hit), and a 25% chance it then procs on the fourth hit.

** Here, this is because there’s a 75% chance it hasn’t procced on the first hit (which would prevent a proc on the second one), a 25% chance it then procs on the second hit, and a 25% chance it procs on the fourth.

Akinos

Aelorin wrote: »

but I try to improve.

Give this man an award. This is the first time and probably the last time I'll see somebody say these words on these forums. Many people here would probably improve if they actually try. However people die in ways they don't understand or they do understand but refuse to acknowledge it and proceed to respawn here on the forums and start a nerf thread. There have been some pretty broken things in ESO that did need to be nerfed, but most things are merely an L2P issue, like dying to jabs/sweeps spam.

This game...and the world, needs more people like @Aelorin.