Which Armor Trait do you Never use?

MEBengalsFan2001 · February 2020

Invigorating

Invigorating issue is the low stat increase it provides. If the value was 4x what is today, it may have a use but in its current state it is worthless.

worrallj · February 2020

All except impen and divines, though I'll settle for infused on a large peice

tmbrinks · February 2020

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Invigorating issue is the low stat increase it provides. If the value was 4x what is today, it may have a use but in its current state it is worthless.

another who hasn't read any other posts in the thread

santhoranb16_ESO · February 2020

code65536 wrote: »

CAB_Life wrote: »

Invigorating will end up being voted “most useless”, without contest.

It’s value needs to be tripled—at least—to have any worth per piece.

@CAB_Life It is disappointing to see that a Class Rep would comment on combat balance without first looking at what the current balance point is. You want us to believe that 33 recovery of each resource per armor slot is going to make Invigorating balanced when Divines will grant you only 18 recovery of a single resource?

Invigorating is being voted on as the worst because people never bothered to look at how it actually compares to other traits. I expected more from a Class Rep, frankly.

With Divines however you got more flexibility (you can change mundus for no cost other then bit time). Invigor surely needs some kind of buff, 33 for sure to much but a sweet spot would be somewhere between 15-20 i guess (would need testing) that it could be considered as a useable trait. You still would give up flexibility from divines in case you what to change on your build (retraiting is more work then change mundus) so a clear benefit needs to be shown if you would want to see invigorate used /and useful.
8 x 15 would be 120 reg on all, which would at least show somewhat a value- while
8 x 20 with 160 reg on all i would still not see as an overpowered result if you consider that you give up flexibility and clearly lock yourself on that trait which SHOULD net you a profit.

Like someone locks onto impen for PVP which also gives a clear and HUGE benefit on PVP, however only on that, to compare.

So if you want to lock yourself onto regeneration that needs a CLEAR benefit if invigor should ever become at least for a brink of a second thinkable.

Rake · February 2020

Invigorating

invigorating
nirnhoned
reinforced

Carespanker · February 2020

Invigorating

Bring back prosperous! at least it was used for gold farming

Sergykid · February 2020

Invigorating

if invigorating is doubled it will be better than divines. As another comment stated, and obviously nobody noticed, divines gives u +18 regen while invig gives u +11 regen. It's only useless because nobody needs all stats recovery, but it's just as weak as divines too.

azjuwelz · February 2020

Nirnhoned

Nirhoned is so...meh. I mean you already have Reinforced so what's the point of EVER using Nirhoned armor. To avoid redundancy, it should have something completely different, like maybe cost reduction or a shield or even bash enhancement.

Just something.

Nestor · February 2020

Invigorating

People overlook that Divines is a Percentage Increase of a Percentage Increase. Or, a Fraction of a Fraction.

Starlock · February 2020

Impenetrable

If you don't do PvP (and I don't) this trait quite literally does nothing of use. Any other trait is better than it.

I don't think I've ever used nirn gear either, mainly due to it being too hard to obtain. I also don't bother with training or invigorating. Back when invigorating was prosperous, I used that.

Vercingetorix · February 2020

Invigorating

Invigorating trait could be improved by buffing the recovery value a bit and also adding a static "1% cost reduction to all abilities" for each trait piece equipped. This would make the trait more appealing, especially in PvP where resource management is more prevalent.

xaraan · February 2020

Invigorating

Not sure why they bothered to create invigorating and do it wrong from the get-go.

ssewallb14_ESO · February 2020

Invigorating

While this does mathematically beat some other combinations as others have mentioned, there isn't any practical situation where optimizing tristat recovery would provide more benefit than another trait.

That's not to say that the concept of a tristat trait could never be useful, it would just need to compete with other traits for builds that would benefit from tristat recovery. For example if I'm a magicka DK in PvP, I would benefit from tristat recovery. But would I benefit more than impen? 3.5% crit damage reduction vs 8 recovery? How about sturdy? ~87 stam every time I block? How does it scale with other sources of crit resist? If I wear impreg (assuming 2-4 pieces are balanced here) I'm trading a 5 pc for 250 crit resist and 56 tristat recovery unbuffed, vs running say bright throat and impen, I'm trading 250 crit resist and 56 stamina/health recovery for 294 mag recovery. It just never makes sense to run the trait with the competing options as it is.

TheFM · February 2020

Invigorating

UntilValhalla13 wrote: »

There's literally no reason to run invigorating, ever.

Yeah the return is so low it's almost insulting.

zaria · February 2020

Never crafted or transmute anything too Well-fitted Invigorating and Nirnhoned, don't think I have made anything Reinforced.

Rex-Umbra · February 2020

Invigorating

Invigorating is a good concept but would need to buff by 10 times to be worth it.

gatekeeper13 · February 2020

Invigorating

code65536 wrote: »

You edited your post before I finished responding. And no, Nirnhoned is a poor trait for a shield. Yes, Nirnhoned will outperform Reinforced for a shield. But you shouldn't be using either of those traits on a shield for tanking.

If a tank for some reason wants extra resistance, they'd be better off getting converting a full value piece of heavy armor (chest, legs, feet, shoulders, and/or head) from Sturdy to Reinforced and keep the shield as Sturdy. People who recommend either Reinforced or Nirnhoned for a shield instead of Sturdy for tanking are just wrong.

I didnt say that it is a good trait for tanking and your comment is out of subject. Dont use the strawman argument against me. I clearly said that Nirnhorned is a less useless trait than Invigorating because nirhorned at least can be used on shields and help in a way. Invigorating is useless in every possible scenario. I have completed many veteran DLC dungeons (vFL, vFH, vDoM, vCoS, vICP, vWGT) as tank and know pretty well which traits work and which don't. I didnt ever recommend Nirnhorned or Reinforced for tanking.

xWarbrain · February 2020

Invigorating

Invigorating, but I've wanted to try full Invigorating with Khajiit passive + CP % to see if it would amount to anything useful.

Nirnhoned should be the highest damage mitigation for how rare nirncrux is and dropped items require transmute.

YandereGirlfriend · February 2020

Invigorating

Invigorating is totally useless as it is currently balanced.

If you wanted to follow the Tristat precedent where you get half of the maximum single-stat bonus for all three stats, that would give us a value of 169 / 2 = ~84 all regen per second. If slotted on all 7 pieces of armor, that would get us ~84 * 7 = ~600 all regen, which is definitely too strong.

If we instead only went with one third of the maximum single-stat bonus, we would get 169 / 3 = ~56 all regen which would yield ~400 all regen if slotted on all pieces. This seems closer to the mark, but perhaps we should round down to an even 50 all regen per piece which results in a maximum value of 350 all regen?

If that still seems high, using 40 all regen would give us a value of 280, which is probably the lowest you would want to go before pushing it back into uselessness.

You still wouldn't want to run it in PvP (unless you're using Impregnable or are some kind of glass canon mobility build) but in PvE it would provide a nice alternative to the current Divines monopoly for DPS and give some nice sustain options for tanks.

tmbrinks · February 2020

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Invigorating is totally useless as it is currently balanced.

If you wanted to follow the Tristat precedent where you get half of the maximum single-stat bonus for all three stats, that would give us a value of 169 / 2 = ~84 all regen per second. If slotted on all 7 pieces of armor, that would get us ~84 * 7 = ~600 all regen, which is definitely too strong.

If we instead only went with one third of the maximum single-stat bonus, we would get 169 / 3 = ~56 all regen which would yield ~400 all regen if slotted on all pieces. This seems closer to the mark, but perhaps we should round down to an even 50 all regen per piece which results in a maximum value of 350 all regen?

If that still seems high, using 40 all regen would give us a value of 280, which is probably the lowest you would want to go before pushing it back into uselessness.

You still wouldn't want to run it in PvP (unless you're using Impregnable or are some kind of glass canon mobility build) but in PvE it would provide a nice alternative to the current Divines monopoly for DPS and give some nice sustain options for tanks.

Full divines only gives you a bonus of 18 * 7 = 126 bonus recovery if you're using a recovery mundus... and you want the invigorating trait to give 350 of ALL THREE?

Glyphs and Traits are not the same thing.

idk · February 2020

Vietfox wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

Devs should take a look at this poll xD

What do you think they'll see? I think they'll see that most forum-goers are incapable of simple math.

There was already an initial outcry over the Invigorating trait when that trait was first introduced in 2017 (replacing the truly useless Prosperous).

This is what I wrote back then.

code65536 wrote: »

Atronach or Serpent Mundus: +238 Mag or Stam regen

With gold Divines, that's +7.5%, or +18 Mag or Stam regen

With gold Invigorating, that's +11 Mag, Stam, and Health regen

So if want single-resource regen, Divines if you are using a regen Mundus is best. Invigorating returns less than Divines, but covers all three pools.

I think the numbers for Invigorating are fair. You may think +11 regen is insignificant, but it's in line with what other traits do--armor traits in general have always been pretty insignificant in comparison to the much more important weapon traits.

PS: Also keep in mind that the +11 regen is unbuffed. In practice, it'll be quite a bit more due to CP, passives from class/race/etc., potions, and other sources of buffs to regen.

Let's say, for example, I'm a DD doing PvE content. I want all-Divines. I have a 5pc armor set where none of the traits are ideal: Reinforced, Invigorating, Training, Sturdy, and Impenetrable. But I only have a limited number of crystals. How should I prioritize my retraiting. Which trait should I change first and which one should I change last? For PvE DPS, I'd probably retrait them in the order of Training, Impen, Sturdy, Reinforced, Invigorating.

Let's say, for another example, you're doing PvP. You want all-Impen. Your current gear is Reinforced, Invigorating, Divines, Training, and Sturdy. Same deal: How do you prioritize it? I don't know about you, but I'd actually get rid of my Divines before my Invigorating.

Let's be real, for PvP you'll mainly use impen with maybe 1 reinforced chest or 2-3 pieces of well-fitted/infused. Full divines if you are a ganker.
And for PvE divines to either boost your spell/weapon damage or max resources. Also sturdy for tanks.

No one needs a high recovery on all 3 resources.

I would suggest that you reread what I wrote since you clearly did not understand the point that I was making.

No, Invigorating is not BiS for anything. You will want to use something else. But how does it compare to other non-BiS traits? If you had only 50 crystals to transmute one piece of gear for PvE DPS, would you retrait your sturdy chest or your invigorating legs?

If you had only 50 crystals to transmute one piece of gear for PvE tanking, would you retrait your divines chest or your invigorating legs?

If you had only 50 crystals to transmute one piece of gear for PvP (assuming you're magicka running the Atronach mundus), would you retrait your divines chest or your invigorating legs?

It's not the best trait, which is why you'll eventually get rid of it in favor of whatever is the BiS trait for what you're doing. But it's never the worst trait.

You are talking about a quite specific situation, most people here are talking about when they intentionally use the trait for a purpose, which i think it's the point of the poll. Not in a "oh i'll keep this invigorating chest till i can transmute it" scenario.
Thus invigorating is the most useless armor trait, followed by nirn.

That's a pretty funny way of describing "most useless". So in your view, the trait with the fewest BiS applications is the most useless, even though it is the trait that is never the most useless in any situation. I mean, if you want to define it like that, sure. But I would argue that's a pretty poor way of looking at the power balance of traits.

Oh my god you are one of those... XD
Ok, "invigorating is the least useful trait, followed by nirn"
Happy now?

Smart, looks at the issue analytically, and communicates their thoughts well? Yes, they seem to be one of those.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2020

Any trait not named Divines (PVE), Impen (PVP) or Sturdy (tanking), is pretty useless as far as I can tell. I can make situational arguments for well-fitted and infused, but that is about it.

Edit: Let's also not forget that training is BIS if you arent at the level or CP cap. haha

So I guess that leaves invigorating, reinforced and nirn, all of which are trash. 98% of my armor (that I actually use) is Divines or Impen.

DTStormfox · February 2020

Invigorating

Completely useless trait imo

MEBengalsFan2001 · February 2020

Invigorating

Sergykid wrote: »

if invigorating is doubled it will be better than divines. As another comment stated, and obviously nobody noticed, divines gives u +18 regen while invig gives u +11 regen. It's only useless because nobody needs all stats recovery, but it's just as weak as divines too.

I love how everyone assumes no role can benefit from all three regens. Tanks can benefit from having all three.

IonicKai · February 2020

Invigorating

I feel like anyone who said well fitted missed how nice that can be for tanks in certain content.

CAB_Life · February 2020

Invigorating

code65536 wrote: »

CAB_Life wrote: »

Invigorating will end up being voted “most useless”, without contest.

It’s value needs to be tripled—at least—to have any worth per piece.

@CAB_Life It is disappointing to see that a Class Rep would comment on combat balance without first looking at what the current balance point is. You want us to believe that 33 recovery of each resource per armor slot is going to make Invigorating balanced when Divines will grant you only 18 recovery of a single resource?

Invigorating is being voted on as the worst because people never bothered to look at how it actually compares to other traits. I expected more from a Class Rep, frankly.

I suggested a number to make it better than what it is currently. I did not state that this was the ideal, set-in-stone, mathematically perfect number, because we are speaking entirely in hypotheticals and no trait rebalancing has been mentioned to my knowledge. Also, some fellow threw out “80/ piece, so take your argument there maybe? Why would you assume that other traits (divines) would not be rebalanced if Invigorating ever was? That would make no sense; the other traits would all have to be reweighted and recalculated/ adjusted. Historically, they tend to do these things in batches (see: racial passives), not one offs.

You have some interesting points so I thank you for sharing them, but I’m not here for an argument.

Starlock · February 2020

Impenetrable

IonicKai wrote: »

I feel like anyone who said well fitted missed how nice that can be for tanks in certain content.

Eh, I use well-fitted on one of my characters whose playstyle revolves around dodge rolling a lot. She definitely isn't a tank. Between well-fitted and her stupid high stamina regen she can rolly polly all day...

Drako_Ei · February 2020

robpr wrote: »

Invigorating and Nirn are both useless, but Invigorating is clearly winner here.
Heck, even Reinforced can have some uses, if someone dont have jewerly crafting.

Nirn is meta trait on Pve

(Edit: you were probabily talking about fortified nirn, then yes its useless)

Varana · February 2020

Invigorating

Drako_Ei wrote: »

robpr wrote: »

Invigorating and Nirn are both useless, but Invigorating is clearly winner here.
Heck, even Reinforced can have some uses, if someone dont have jewerly crafting.

Nirn is meta trait on Pve

(Edit: you were probabily talking about fortified nirn, then yes its useless)

The poll is about armour traits. That's why there's also no Sharpened or Powered.

Finedaible · February 2020

Invigorating

Invigorating is #1. Second place runner up would be Nirnhoned, which is just a variation of Reinforced, which is also quite trash.