Artemiisia wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

@Artemiisia what are you walking about? How can you say new players won't learn anything when you had to learn to interrupt on that fight? It takes 10sec for you now because it isn't meant for you

I think you missed something, I fought that fight 5 years ago when it was hard and you needed to use interrupt in the fight due to our damage was like 2-5k only, max level dps when the first raid came out was only 10k dps. it was when it was hard and where you needed to learn the actual mechanics of the fight to beat it

now with a new char, you can go there lowlevel, without champion points, and destroy everything in the fight before needing to use interrupt since fight is over in 10 secs

You can. You're not a new player. It's not meant for you. That's not the new player experience lol

The Uninvited wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

[

The Uninvited wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

@FierceSam and @Rave the Histborn As both of you still don't seem to understand what I mean (although I do appreciate @FierceSam giving a good argument for his views this time), maybe this will finally make you see it. If not, I'm out and I will call for a dev to close this thread as it apparently makes no sense to argue any longer.

This video is from the Doshia boss back in March 2014. Did I think it was too much back then? YES! Do I think it is too easy now and has been nerfed too much? HELL YEAH!!!!

Did we as new players make it through it back then? YES! Did we have to ask other players how to and did it make us better players and act more social, join guilds, ask for crafted gear, tips on how to complete and so on (as you would expect in an MMO)? HELL YEAH!!!

Was it completely impossible? No, but it made you at least grab a sense of how to play the game and be prepared for things like dungeons and pvp. You know... How a game should be in the early stages to prepare you for what's coming next. At least, that's my opinion. It's clearly not yours.

https://youtu.be/mwQY57gVAb8

This is what we've been telling you though. The game hasn't been nerfed, Doshia is as hard then as she is now and just because you thought it was hard back then doesnt meant she was ever hard.

People still ask for advice, request crafted sets, etc. None of that has ever changed either. You're just never going to get the same feeling because this isnt your first character and adding increased HP or extra stuns isn't going to solve that.

Except, this is where you are wrong.

It has been nerfed (many of these early quests have been), most players know it and have been talking about it since. See for example this post from 2016: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/242619/anyone-remember-old-school-eso/p1

Was it over-tuned and did it create a roadblock in it's original state? Yes, totally. Was it, in my opinion, nerfed too much? Yes.

But that's just the thing with ZOS, I guess. That nerf hammer gets swinged too hard sometimes.

It's the same thing when pvp-players get blamed for too heavy nerfs, when it really is ZOS that's to blame.

PVP crowd "this stuff is a bit OP, can you perhaps tone it down with like 25% maybe?"
ZOS: "Okay, let's nerf it by 60% and make it totally worthless"

You don't seem to get it. There is no way for what you're proposing to occur and you're linking to a forum post about nerfs from Jan 2016. I'm sorry but if you need to go that far back in the game for it to be "harder" then you'd asking for a lot of content to be scaled differently and for a lot of content to be removed. It's never going to happen because you're asking for things to be overtuned and act as a roadblock which isn't going to be fun for the majority of players and is not going to get more people into the game.

For the last time, in my opinion, it was nerfed too much. Should it be brought back to it's original state? No. But there is a middle ground between too easy or too hard, you know that, right?

Dude, have you seen new players? Do you remember being one? There is no middle ground where their “too hard” would be anything but “way too easy” to you.

You want the story bosses to be hard enough that people fail them. Not you, not me, but other, newer players. You want them to fail the easiest bit of content so you can feel a tiny bit challenged (with your full gearsets, food buffs, potions and years of playing experience). You think it will make the main quest somehow more meaningful for you. Well it won’t for them. And for every level of difficulty you add no matter how small that level is, fewer players will play through the content. And that’s bad.

I once spent hours getting through the Galchobhar fight back when it still had stone atronarchs. Hours. When we finally beat him it was amazingly satisfying. After that it was never a problem. Later ZOS removed the atronarchs because that fight was a total roadblock and stopped too many groups getting through, because not everyone wants to spend hours getting it right. Did I like the original challenge? Yes. Was it an amazing feeling beating it? Yes. Did ZOS do the right thing by removing the atronarchs? Yes.

Am I a bit sad and nostalgic about the old fight every time I go back? Yes. But more players are getting through it and going on to fight the Earthgore Amalgum and finishing the dungeon. More players are doing that content. And that’s a good thing.

After you’ve done something like that a story boss is never going to feel even remotely hard. And Galchobhar isn’t even a final boss.

I already said that I see your point of view. However, it's funny that you mention a fight in a DLC dungeon as I thought we agreed on that's where the challenging content and occasional roadblocks should occur.

Was the Galchobhar fight too much and did ZOS make the right choice? Probably. But this again brings me to my point.

I remember my first time in veteran City of Ash 2, when veteran 14 was the highest level. Took hours as well and yes it was satisfying when we finally made it.

Is it a cakewalk for me now? Yes, and I can surely see the difference my 5 years of experience, CP, meta gear and food make there. Will it still be challenging to new players? Yes. Will it still be engaging content to me? Yes, because no matter my experience/CP/gear/food, I wouldn't be able to complete it with just standing still and light attacking.

Artemiisia wrote: »

the thing about overland being so easy now, that nothing prepares you for dungeons and raids, you dont need to invest time in learning about skills, ccs, dont stand in red, mechanics, how the mobs react. You can pretty much go naked around doing light attack and beat everything overland now, thats just sad.

in the old days, bosses like Doshia was feared, overland trolls and gargoyle, people needed help killing these in order for progression through the quests from time to time.

I remember having trouble with manimaco, due to not knowing how to interupt when I first met him, and learned it on that fight, now this fight is boring and over in less then 10 secs, so all the mechanics behind the fight is gone, and new players wont have come out of it with learning anything.

Exactly.

You can complete vet City of Ash 2 with just light attacks, the people I get stuck in PUGs with do it all the time. You seem to miss that point. The story mode isn't there to teach you anything it is there for the story and having enemies kill you or forcing you to block giant going to teach you anything more about mechanics that the tutorial already does. If you really want a challenge go fight that monk WB in So. Elsweyr.

@Artemiisia what are you walking about? How can you say new players won't learn anything when you had to learn to interrupt on that fight? It takes 10sec for you now because it isn't meant for you

No, you can't. Not without interrupting/dodge rolling/blocking/using healing skills and potions. You seem to miss that point.

Yes, you can lol I've tanked through it and it's infuriating.

You have to roll/block/heal and use potions in overland at low level. You seem to miss that point.

You can also go through public dungeons and light attack through them. You seem to miss that point.

mazeikeen wrote: »

The problem with making it slightly more difficult is anyone who is blasting through overland content and complaining about how easy it is, is not going to notice the slight difficulty increase. The people who are going to notice it and be affected by it are players who are not asking for this by any stretch of the imagination. It's a flawed solution to something that isn't a problem.

Increase ai. Thats what needs to be done, as it stands mobs are drunken rabble because half the time they dont even hit you.

Iccotak wrote: »

Come on ZOS, this quest used to scare people 5 years ago! It was also a quest where you learned to kite, dodge roll and block for incoming damage as if you were running a dungeon solo.

I am level 21, using crafted Hunding/s/Nightmother level 16 gear (all training trait) and Orzorga's Tripe Trifle Pocket for food. Bow skill line at level 10 when I started the quest.

I just bow light attacked myself through the whole quest... Health didn't even drop below 24K... Didn't even have to use healing skills...

Mannimarco is laughably easy now. But I still have a bit of difficulty with the one before it, at the Abbey of Blades, with the resurrected Yokuden warriors.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

@Artemiisia what are you walking about? How can you say new players won't learn anything when you had to learn to interrupt on that fight? It takes 10sec for you now because it isn't meant for you

I think you missed something, I fought that fight 5 years ago when it was hard and you needed to use interrupt in the fight due to our damage was like 2-5k only, max level dps when the first raid came out was only 10k dps. it was when it was hard and where you needed to learn the actual mechanics of the fight to beat it

now with a new char, you can go there lowlevel, without champion points, and destroy everything in the fight before needing to use interrupt since fight is over in 10 secs

You can. You're not a new player. It's not meant for you. That's not the new player experience lol

CASP3R421 wrote: »

all topworld quests are carebear now to appease RPers who "just want to get the story"

Failing at a fight then beating it is one of the most satisfying things in MMOs.

It also trains a player for more difficult things to come.

This thread isn’t about making things deathly hard, but adding some difficulty so everything outside of a dungeon or PvP isn’t boringly easy.

It got to the point where I can’t even get past Cadwell’s Silver/Gold because I get bored and log off after a few quest hubs.

THIS is why I proposed a group setting for Story Bosses. Because it's an easy one-off boss when they could be way more exciting. WHY doesn't the story cater to Vet players? Why should it only cater to new people? There has to be a better compromise.
Have a story system for both New & Vet players

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/512278/lairs-proposal-for-a-group-content-setting-of-story-bosses

Because the story is there for new players and there is tons of other content to cater to vet players. Why do vet players that have done the story multiple times need it catered to them?

I

The Uninvited wrote: »

But right about now, the biggest roadblock seems to be able to login to the game. Also something we don't want new players to experience, but here we are...

LOL

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Because the story is there for new players and there is tons of other content to cater to vet players. Why do vet players that have done the story multiple times need it catered to them?

@Rave the Histborn
At the end of the day I don't see a reason why the Big Bad of an MMO (that is a threat to the whole world) shouldn't get a group activity.
What about those who stick with the game? Why should the story only cater to new players?

I do participate in Group content and I love it.
It has more to do with the fact that the Story Bosses (like Mannimarco & Kaalgrontiid) were really hyped up but ultimately disappointing for semi-experienced players. It's anti-climatic because it took no effort to beat them and then it feels like insincere flattery when the NPCs heap praise on us.

I understand that they are designed for New players to make them feel like winners BUT that is not a good system for the long term.
Hyping up a Baddie over the course of the game OR a year+ long story arc only have it end with a lackluster boss fight is always disappointing.

It's also not good as the keeps happening with each major Expansion and Story DLC. I was experienced by the time we got to Summerset (which was the end of the Daedric War story arc) so why does the Boss have to be solely for New Players who just got there when I have been there since the start of the story?

It doesn't have to be so that Story is only new players. It separates the player base too much. We can have a system that caters to both sides.

ZOS tried integrating group content (Trials) into the story for Craglorn but that resulted in a backlash. So this is a compromise.
Creating a group content Setting so that new players can experience the story AND Vets can have a rewarding End Boss game-play experience.

It took you no effort to beat them. Not everyone is at your skill lever, those fights are really hard for some people. You have to understand not everyone can sink hours into the game, some people are only able to go into the game for a few hours and just want to see the story through. It isn't anti climactic to everyone, it is to you because of your EXPERIENCE IN THE GAME. I'm not sure how many time I have to keep repeating myself. Vets already get a rewarding end boss experience, they also get trials, dlc dungeons, etc. There's tons of content that already caters to vets, what would you even add to make it more rewarding?

Correct, Summerset and Morrowind Bosses were easy because I am experienced. And they were both abit ant-climatic for me as a long term player who was Invested in the story

Again I understand that they are designed for New players to make them feel like winners BUT that is not a good system for the long term players.

There is no reason why they should not add a Group Setting for the Story Boss fights while still it can still allowing them to be soloed by new players.
This is what I am saying a Group Setting. Not Gating the story new players. But creating a rewarding Story game-play experience for long term players. Hyping up big baddies for already invested players only to end in an easy boss fight is disappointing.

Its not just about End-game it's about the Story Experience. (and yes game-play does affect that)

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Because the story is there for new players and there is tons of other content to cater to vet players. Why do vet players that have done the story multiple times need it catered to them?

@Rave the Histborn
At the end of the day I don't see a reason why the Big Bad of an MMO (that is a threat to the whole world) shouldn't get a group activity.
What about those who stick with the game? Why should the story only cater to new players?

I do participate in Group content and I love it.
It has more to do with the fact that the Story Bosses (like Mannimarco & Kaalgrontiid) were really hyped up but ultimately disappointing for semi-experienced players. It's anti-climatic because it took no effort to beat them and then it feels like insincere flattery when the NPCs heap praise on us.

I understand that they are designed for New players to make them feel like winners BUT that is not a good system for the long term.
Hyping up a Baddie over the course of the game OR a year+ long story arc only have it end with a lackluster boss fight is always disappointing.

It's also not good as the keeps happening with each major Expansion and Story DLC. I was experienced by the time we got to Summerset (which was the end of the Daedric War story arc) so why does the Boss have to be solely for New Players who just got there when I have been there since the start of the story?

It doesn't have to be so that Story is only new players. It separates the player base too much. We can have a system that caters to both sides.

ZOS tried integrating group content (Trials) into the story for Craglorn but that resulted in a backlash. So this is a compromise.
Creating a group content Setting so that new players can experience the story AND Vets can have a rewarding End Boss game-play experience.

It took you no effort to beat them. Not everyone is at your skill lever, those fights are really hard for some people. You have to understand not everyone can sink hours into the game, some people are only able to go into the game for a few hours and just want to see the story through. It isn't anti climactic to everyone, it is to you because of your EXPERIENCE IN THE GAME. I'm not sure how many time I have to keep repeating myself. Vets already get a rewarding end boss experience, they also get trials, dlc dungeons, etc. There's tons of content that already caters to vets, what would you even add to make it more rewarding?

Correct, Summerset and Morrowind Bosses were easy because I am experienced. And they were both abit ant-climatic for me as a long term player who was Invested in the story

Again I understand that they are designed for New players to make them feel like winners BUT that is not a good system for the long term players.

There is no reason why they should not add a Group Setting for the Story Boss fights while still it can still allowing them to be soloed by new players.
This is what I am saying a Group Setting. Not Gating the story new players. But creating a rewarding Story game-play experience for long term players. Hyping up big baddies for already invested players only to end in an easy boss fight is disappointing.

Its not just about End-game it's about the Story Experience. (and yes game-play does affect that)

It IS a good system because is the same system every MMO ever designed has used. It IS a good system for long term players because they don't keep people playing by having them go through the story content over and over. They keep long term players invested by offering high level content like dungeons and trials.

There is also no reason to add a group setting for story boss fights and it would cause more problems within the system than it would be worth to implement. I understand you think this game is CoD and you can add a difficulty setting but you can't. Again, it is easy and disappointing TO YOU. If you really want to make your game hard go level as a tank like I did but you're just talking about adding more HP, you wouldn't be adding mechanics or anything that make it hard. There is no demand for that and no reason for it

Who said anything about CoD?
I don't play CoD but if we are going to discuss difficulty adjustments - Skyrim does have that option and harder boss fights did leave a more rewarding feeling.

Also No, ESO is unique in its current system.
WoW, the king of MMOs, has its central story bosses as Group Content. Same goes for FFXIV.

It's an MMO, it should encourage group play for big events like fighting a threat to all of Tamriel.

There is a demand for harder story bosses as demonstrated by this very thread (I am aware of game population representation in the forums but the point still stands)
Because there are invested players, who have been playing for years, that are annoyed that the story almost entirely caters to New Players.
What's the point of Marketing a New Season Story-line to Long Term Players if the story game-play is geared for beginners?
You're argument basically ignores them and relegates them to the other side of the game.

(telling players to gimp themselves for a more challenging story experience is the same as telling players to make exteremely strong builds if they want to solo a dungeon)

Game-play is inherently part of the Story experience and the Story does not have to cater to only ONE demographic.
The game could be more integrated then it is. We should have a more consistent Story Game-play Experience, especially if ZOS is going forward with making Dungeons more integrated with the Story-line.

Iccotak wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Because the story is there for new players and there is tons of other content to cater to vet players. Why do vet players that have done the story multiple times need it catered to them?

@Rave the Histborn
At the end of the day I don't see a reason why the Big Bad of an MMO (that is a threat to the whole world) shouldn't get a group activity.
What about those who stick with the game? Why should the story only cater to new players?

I do participate in Group content and I love it.
It has more to do with the fact that the Story Bosses (like Mannimarco & Kaalgrontiid) were really hyped up but ultimately disappointing for semi-experienced players. It's anti-climatic because it took no effort to beat them and then it feels like insincere flattery when the NPCs heap praise on us.

I understand that they are designed for New players to make them feel like winners BUT that is not a good system for the long term.
Hyping up a Baddie over the course of the game OR a year+ long story arc only have it end with a lackluster boss fight is always disappointing.

It's also not good as the keeps happening with each major Expansion and Story DLC. I was experienced by the time we got to Summerset (which was the end of the Daedric War story arc) so why does the Boss have to be solely for New Players who just got there when I have been there since the start of the story?

It doesn't have to be so that Story is only new players. It separates the player base too much. We can have a system that caters to both sides.

ZOS tried integrating group content (Trials) into the story for Craglorn but that resulted in a backlash. So this is a compromise.
Creating a group content Setting so that new players can experience the story AND Vets can have a rewarding End Boss game-play experience.

It took you no effort to beat them. Not everyone is at your skill lever, those fights are really hard for some people. You have to understand not everyone can sink hours into the game, some people are only able to go into the game for a few hours and just want to see the story through. It isn't anti climactic to everyone, it is to you because of your EXPERIENCE IN THE GAME. I'm not sure how many time I have to keep repeating myself. Vets already get a rewarding end boss experience, they also get trials, dlc dungeons, etc. There's tons of content that already caters to vets, what would you even add to make it more rewarding?

Correct, Summerset and Morrowind Bosses were easy because I am experienced. And they were both abit ant-climatic for me as a long term player who was Invested in the story

Again I understand that they are designed for New players to make them feel like winners BUT that is not a good system for the long term players.

There is no reason why they should not add a Group Setting for the Story Boss fights while still it can still allowing them to be soloed by new players.
This is what I am saying a Group Setting. Not Gating the story new players. But creating a rewarding Story game-play experience for long term players. Hyping up big baddies for already invested players only to end in an easy boss fight is disappointing.

Its not just about End-game it's about the Story Experience. (and yes game-play does affect that)

It IS a good system because is the same system every MMO ever designed has used. It IS a good system for long term players because they don't keep people playing by having them go through the story content over and over. They keep long term players invested by offering high level content like dungeons and trials.

There is also no reason to add a group setting for story boss fights and it would cause more problems within the system than it would be worth to implement. I understand you think this game is CoD and you can add a difficulty setting but you can't. Again, it is easy and disappointing TO YOU. If you really want to make your game hard go level as a tank like I did but you're just talking about adding more HP, you wouldn't be adding mechanics or anything that make it hard. There is no demand for that and no reason for it

Who said anything about CoD?
I don't play CoD but if we are going to discuss difficulty adjustments - Skyrim does have that option and harder boss fights did leave a more rewarding feeling.

Also No, ESO is unique in its current system.
WoW, the king of MMOs, has its central story bosses as Group Content. Same goes for FFXIV.

It's an MMO, it should encourage group play for big events like fighting a threat to all of Tamriel.

There is a demand for harder story bosses as demonstrated by this very thread (I am aware of game population representation in the forums but the point still stands)
Because there are invested players, who have been playing for years, that are annoyed that the story almost entirely caters to New Players.
What's the point of Marketing a New Season Story-line to Long Term Players if the story game-play is geared for beginners?
You're argument basically ignores them and relegates them to the other side of the game.

(telling players to gimp themselves for a more challenging story experience is the same as telling players to make exteremely strong builds if they want to solo a dungeon)

Game-play is inherently part of the Story experience and the Story does not have to cater to only ONE demographic.
The game could be more integrated then it is. We should have a more consistent Story Game-play Experience, especially if ZOS is going forward with making Dungeons more integrated with the Story-line.

Skyrim is a single player game, so it’s way easier to vary the difficulty to an individual gamer’s taste. Your version of ‘hard’ might be way less severe than mine (or vice versa). ESO as an MMORPG doesn’t have that easy option.

That said, the main questing in ESO is a single player experience. It’s not a group experience and group questing doesn’t work (you just need one of you to close a dialogue before someone else has opened it and it’s gone forever). Hence the quest bosses are all single player focussed within the MMO space. Despite it being an MMORPG, there are many, many players who are perfectly happy only doing single player content and don’t want to do group content (for whatever reason). Roadblocking the easiest part of the game by putting in unnecessary group content is a bad idea.

There are group play events for story content. They’re called dolmens, geysers and, in the Year of the Dragon content, dragons. They provide all the threat level and group play you are looking for. They’re an integral part of the story, just not part of the main questline. You can do your group bit to save Tamriel, you just won’t have the same dialogue and story spewed at you the 100th time you do it (and that is a good thing - I’ve only been in Banished Cells 1 50 times and I am sick to death of Rillis’ monologues).

I think this thread is actually an indication that only a limited number of players actually want significantly harder story bosses. The rest recognise that the story bosses are not the baddest of baddies, but the meekest (and rightly so). If you want harder content and badder bosses, they are out there, but you won’t find them at L30 and you won’t find them in the main quest.

You are absurdly wrong if you think that simply having manageable bosses in the main story means that the questlines are only catering to new players. The questlines are full of story detail and content that only longer term players will appreciate, but the bosses are targeted at new player levels of ability because we want everyone to be able to finish the quests.

Equally, you are wrong if you think there’s nothing in the year long stories for more experienced players. By having an overall story, one that goes beyond the main questline, ZOS are able to integrate harder content into the story. The next DLC will have some connection with the main storyline - hopefully slightly more than Wrathstone and Scalebreaker did, but not so much that players who don’t do dungeon content will feel seriously left out.

Your confusion seems to be that the main questline is the ultimate end of the ESO journey (and that the fight at the end should reflect this). It isn’t. It’s just the beginning.

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

CASP3R421 wrote: »

all topworld quests are carebear now to appease RPers who "just want to get the story"

Yeah because this is going to endure you to any potential supporters.

ZOS has not significantly nerfed anything overland in recent memory. In fact they have done the opposite. Raising the mobs to CP 160 across the board and reworking World Bosses so they weren't easily knocked off by one player like they were prior to 1T. Obviously now with CP810, Monster Sets, well practiced rotations and proc sets you can go back to these areas and roll over everything. Shocking! Doesn't change the fact that you can take the elitism and do you know what with it. 8 pages and the majority of level headed posters has made their point clearly. A difficulty slider in overland is not a welcome change here in ESO.

I can fight overland mobs naked, no cp, and no weapon and allow them to hit me and still not die. It has in fact been dumbed down considerably

Kendaric wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

I can fight overland mobs naked, no cp, and no weapon and allow them to hit me and still not die. It has in fact been dumbed down considerably

That depends on the overland mobs...

I still see plenty of players die in overland encounters. Just because you don't die to them while fighting naked and without weapon and CP, doesn't make it true for everyone.

I literally stand still and let them beat on me. I mean, seriously. And this was overland in clockwork city, not like it was the starter areas. Stood still, allowed them to cc and aoe me, used a single skill, funnel health on nightblade, I even simulated mistakes that new players would make , as in forgetting to dodge, block, weave, etc. I could not die. I tried, but could not. The only possible way I couldve died was to not use a single skill.

Then you should have np completing the hardest achievements in the game and setting all new records in all the vet trials....

You did complete all the Vet Trials after all those years, right?

FierceSam wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

If I have any means to prove my point, this might be it.

I am doing the Village of the Lost public dungeon in Coldharbour right now. The bosses there pose a greater threat than Mannimarco in the main quest...

Interesting example. That’s because there’s a challenge hierarchy in the game

Overland questing is at one end of the scale, DLC dungeons and trials are at the other.

Public dungeons are somewhere in the middle. The clue is in the name and the notion that these are dungeons designed for multiple players to play in as a group, rather than deliberately designed solo content.

I’d never expect a quest to be as hard as a public dungeon because quests aren’t designed to be failed (and that is no easy development task). Dungeons of all types are designed to be a challenge and the expectation is that you may fail (repeatedly). That’s where players will begin to be encouraged to ‘get good’, not when they’re questing.

Amazingly, when I bimble into the Village of the Lost with my tooled up L21, it’s facerolltastic.. but that’s because public dungeons aren’t a challenge to me any more (what with my crafted gear, CP, buffs and years of playing the game under my belt), but I recognise they might still be a challenge to some (just as they were to the me who was playing when I first was a L21 character and had useless gear, skills and playing ability). And I recognise that the ‘public dungeon’ challenge level is fairly consistent across multiple zones (as it has been since 1Tamriel). I don’t want to [snip] up their game just because I selfishly want the easiest part of the game to provide me with the same sense of challenge I now only get from DLC dungeons.

I understand that some people are so caught up in the storyline that they feel the central characters should be the biggest, baddest threats in all Tamriel, but the reality of the game is that they’re not. They are just pawns on the threatboard - hell some of Molag Bal’s minions’ minions in the IC sewers pose more of a threat than he does.

But that’s OK because even as impotent as you see him Molag Bal is still a significant threat to many, many players. And one who they feel a real sense of triumph beating the first time.

And I wouldn’t want to change that just because I want my 23rd go round to feel like it did the first time.

Very well put ^

OP you have completed all the Vet Trails and the hardest Achievements in ESO, right?

If not, there you go....

After years of playing you should naturally progress into the hardest content.

In PvP putting the odds against me, I certainty find it there.

In PvE having done some of the Vet Trials and all the Vet Arenas, trying to keep on the leaderboards. I have found it there, as well.

The story and overland is for newer players and all players to enjoy. It should be something for everyone to relax to. Completing all the quests, zone by zone, is enough of a grind in itself.

I don’t think people getting one shot by some random monster during a quest would help ZoS sales either.

We need a new players coming in, not running away.

[edited to remove quote]