Sancre Tor, this is how easy the game has become.

jircris11

The Uninvited wrote: »

If it makes any difference, here's my stats on this character at level 22. It's not like they are sky high or anything. Taking into account the gear scaling of course.

BAHAHAHA! The name! And if you notice a lvl 3 is stronger stat wise then a cp800. That us thanks to the stupid scaling they put in. So instead of getting stronger you actually get weaker till you have trial gear.

WiseSky

The Uninvited wrote: »

If it makes any difference, here's my stats on this character at level 22. It's not like they are sky high or anything. Taking into account the gear scaling of course.

Umm what is that addon that shows %

Also I am in the process of making a way to handicap yourself in game, in order to actually feel a challenge.

The Uninvited

WiseSky wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

If it makes any difference, here's my stats on this character at level 22. It's not like they are sky high or anything. Taking into account the gear scaling of course.

Umm what is that addon that shows %

Also I am in the process of making a way to handicap yourself in game, in order to actually feel a challenge.

I think it's Bandits UI that shows it.

TequilaFire

It has been dumbed down a lot no matter what the detractors say.
Mannimarco can now be killed way before he can even summon the multiple waves of adds.
Hell, Molag Bal's hand didn't even come out of the anchor last time I did it on a new account.

The Uninvited

TequilaFire wrote: »

It has been dumbed down a lot no matter what the detractors say.
Mannimarco can now be killed way before he can even summon the multiple waves of adds.
Hell, Molag Bal's hand didn't even come out of the anchor last time I did it on a new account.

Exactly. I just miss the veteran level days I guess, where you had to do all zone quest, guild quests and main quests and then Craglorn with a tank and a healer and you still wouldn't be veteran 14 or even 16 when they introduced that.

I did my first 5 characters like that. True, it was a grind but it made you learn your character to the bone and it made the game more social as people would help each other out.

I've been through the stack and burn phases of trials in those days and was actually surprised that they upped the difficulty and introduced veteran trials when they finally noticed that.

It's just a shame that nowadays overland doesn't prepare you for things like that anymore

idk

The Uninvited wrote: »

idk wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

idk wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

So you started a new character and allocated CP points and crafted yourself some nice gear and then you complain about how "easy" the game is?

You do realize that anyone starting fresh will not have access to either of those things, yes?

Good point. I never craft gear for a new character until late levels when do some PvP to get AvA leveled up. I just use whatever drops and do not care about set bonus.

Also true, but I just craft it for having the training trait to level faster.

Funny though, when I craft Hunding's Rage it says something like "adds 50 weapon damage" but when I equip it on my new character it says "adds 328 weapon damage". And that is part of my point.

First off you are crafting a strong set yet complain about how strong the character is.

Second, the difference you are seeing is the old stats from before our characters were bolstered to lvl 50 and when you equip is you are seeing the relevant stats for your characters level in a bolster system. As you level up that weapon damage becomes smaller since the bolster becomes less.

So make your choice. Stronger character and have training trait of not so strong of a character, have to spend a few extra hours leveling and might have to do more than basic attacks to kill something. Do not forget to avoid spending CP.

You don't have to be condescending, I have said you were right before.

But if I see the old stats when crafting and see the new stats when equipping, don't you think it should show the new stats when crafting as well?

Look, I know all too well that crafted gear is better than dropped gear and using a food buff and so on.

But I'm a level 21 and wearing level 16 gear on this char, it just feels a bit "too much" if that's all it takes to complete that quest by just light attacking.

I was not making any attempt at being condescending. I was just being literal. Sorry you took offense, it was not intended.

The Uninvited

idk wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

idk wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

idk wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

So you started a new character and allocated CP points and crafted yourself some nice gear and then you complain about how "easy" the game is?

You do realize that anyone starting fresh will not have access to either of those things, yes?

Good point. I never craft gear for a new character until late levels when do some PvP to get AvA leveled up. I just use whatever drops and do not care about set bonus.

Also true, but I just craft it for having the training trait to level faster.

Funny though, when I craft Hunding's Rage it says something like "adds 50 weapon damage" but when I equip it on my new character it says "adds 328 weapon damage". And that is part of my point.

First off you are crafting a strong set yet complain about how strong the character is.

Second, the difference you are seeing is the old stats from before our characters were bolstered to lvl 50 and when you equip is you are seeing the relevant stats for your characters level in a bolster system. As you level up that weapon damage becomes smaller since the bolster becomes less.

So make your choice. Stronger character and have training trait of not so strong of a character, have to spend a few extra hours leveling and might have to do more than basic attacks to kill something. Do not forget to avoid spending CP.

You don't have to be condescending, I have said you were right before.

But if I see the old stats when crafting and see the new stats when equipping, don't you think it should show the new stats when crafting as well?

Look, I know all too well that crafted gear is better than dropped gear and using a food buff and so on.

But I'm a level 21 and wearing level 16 gear on this char, it just feels a bit "too much" if that's all it takes to complete that quest by just light attacking.

I was not making any attempt at being condescending. I was just being literal. Sorry you took offense, it was not intended.

No offense taken, thank you for your explanation.

FrancisCrawford

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

Mannimarco is laughably easy now. But I still have a bit of difficulty with the one before it, at the Abbey of Blades, with the resurrected Yokuden warriors. Those guys seem to hot like trucks and even with health food and shields and such, sometimes I'm all of a sudden on low health or dead. The one that shoots ice seems especially deadly. Why can't ice be that good when WE use it?

I usually am so cocky at that point in the main quest that I mess up and take a death. THAT reminds me to be a bit more serious.

Nevasca

Meh. Old combat was only "fun" if you went to areas that were above your level. Rushing through cadwell's silver/gold zones for example might meant you were underleveled for some areas, which was a lot better than smashing mobs like the insects they are.

But the main problem with overland is that the fights are pure stats vs stats. As in, there's no mechanics, no roll dodging or blocking mechanics like you'd have from bosses/monsters in dungeons/trials. You either have the stats to kill or don't. Now that everything is scaled you will pretty much always have stats to do any overland content, perhaps having difficulty soloing some wolrd bosses if you didn't bother to craft 5pc sets.

Funnily enough, overland combat is as bland as the single player games, so it doesnt matter that much for the casual player anyways.

Wolfchild07

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

Meh. Old combat was only "fun" if you went to areas that were above your level.

Yeah, I remember even regular overland trash mobs 15 - 20 levels higher than you used to auto dodge your attacks fairly often.

ArchMikem

The biggest problem with the low difficulty is new players will notice they get by using just light attacks, like OP said. Ive seen players with hundreds of champion points go into Dungeons and never use a single ability. The game doesnt force them to use any so they never learn.

witchdoctor

ArchMikem wrote: »

The biggest problem with the low difficulty is ...

Here is why I would vote for a higher difficulty setting for overland.

Disclaimer: I already know my toons are geared out, max CP, and I have a fairly good grasp on how they play.

I'm taking my magblade through the DC story arc. I'm on a quest in Camlorn to save townspeople afflicted as werewolves. The quest has you press 'E' when a WW is at about 33% health.

This would have made sense back when I first went through. There was probably another 2-3 attacks required to kill it. Plenty of time to press 'E!'

Now? Damn thing dies from one light attack and a few ticks of burning. It took me 9 WW or so to save the required 4!

Falchou? Didn't even get to finish monologuing me before he died.

doomette

witchdoctor wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

The biggest problem with the low difficulty is ...

Falchou? Didn't even get to finish monologuing me before he died.

That might be for the best. His voice is...something. 😬

starkerealm

The Uninvited wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Also, I'm below level 50 so if I'm not mistaken CP doesn't work yet. So, this is all due to the level scaling of gear and food.

If you've spent them, CP applies. The only times CP does not work are in lowbie Cyrodiil, Battlegrounds, and non-CP campaigns.

The Uninvited wrote: »

I am level 21, using crafted Hunding/s/Nightmother level 16 gear (all training trait) and Orzorga's Tripe Trifle Pocket for food. Bow skill line at level 10 when I started the quest.

So, you went in with with a two 6 trait sets which buffed your stats well beyond what would be possible for a newbie level 21, with a food buff, and found the content easier than when you originally encountered it with a mix of non-set gear of varying rarities, no food, and had a much shakier grasp on the content.

True, but still. Those Bone Colossus dudes used to whip my behind back in 2014.

I'll grant you being right about most points, but back then we used crafted sets too. Albeit Ashen Grip and so on. Also, we still had soft caps.

Soft caps are irrelevant to the discussion. Those went away with the introduction of champion points, but that also included a complete stat rebalance across the board.

Second, saying Ashen Grip is comparable to Hunding's Rage and NMG is, frankly, laughable.

Third, light and heavy attacks were reworked with Summerset.

Fourth, and most importantly, in 2014 Sancre Tor represented the culmination of your knowledge about how to play ESO. In 2020, you have had six years to improve as a player. Expecting the same level of challenge in content that is aimed at new players who are just getting started is fundamentally unreasonable.

Oh, I realize that. But all I did was literally light attack and move my character around a bit. No dodging, no blocking, no kiting.

I know that I am not the same player as I was back then. I also know about all the other changes the game has been through.

But if you can do that quest by just light attacking, something needs to be adjusted imo.

Something else you might not understand. You get that lowbie characters have their stats grossly inflated, right?

I mean, you're like, "I'm level 21, I should be weak," but the answer is, ironically, no.

Because everything in ESO is "level scaled," you can't really have a conventional difficulty curve. You can't throw players against more powerful enemies if you're worried that a newbie will wander in.

The Secret World ran into this problem two years before ESO launched. Funcom sold their game on the idea of a levelless MMO. But, what they ended up doing was using gear progression as a replacement for conventional leveling systems. The game still had levels, but it wanted to pretend it did not.

So, here's the problem, if you're starting out, you need the game to be easier than it will be to a veteran player. The normal solution is for you to face more challenging foes as you progress, but that doesn't work for what ESO is trying to do. You can't say, "we don't have any level gates," and then make Sancre Tor a level 45 instance, like it was at launch.

ESO's solution is to inflate the character's stats so that, as a new player, they'll have an easier time with content than they will at level 50. You get the feeling that content is getting harder as you level, because you're getting weaker. Your max stats shrink each time you level up.

This means, in spite of sets like Hunding's Rage looking stronger with each superior iteration, your actual power diminishes.

If you're learning what you're doing as you progress, it's a wash, you'll feel stronger, but your foes will become more imposing. Especially if you're questing through the old base game zones in order.

However, if you already know what you're doing, you can do some downright disgusting things on low level characters.

Sancre Tor was easy, in part, because you had implausibly good gear. It was easy in part because you understood the basics of making a character. But, a major part of why you found it so trivial was because you were playing it with all that knowledge when it's difficulty was scaled for a newbie who was just learning the ropes, and had started by powering through the main quest.

mocap

i barely remember pre OT times, but big gargoyle (or it's Titan?) - side semi-boss in quest when you need to create flesh atronach to break the door (rescuing Tharn mission). I remember i killed that boss from ~7th try, ended by kiting him a lot.

doomette

mocap wrote: »

i barely remember pre OT times, but big gargoyle (or it's Titan?) - side semi-boss in quest when you need to create flesh atronach to break the door (rescuing Tharn mission). I remember i killed that boss from ~7th try, ended by kiting him a lot.

Doshia inspired new and creative swears.

LukosCreyden

The only Main Story quest that ever used to scare me was the ine where you had to go get the ring and fight all those Redguard ancestors. Even then, it wasn't that bad, just made you use mechanics. Overland PvE and quests have always been pretty easy, with a couple exceptions.

ESO is a huge contrast from FFXIV in this regard, where in FFXIV you can die in overland if you pull 1 mob too many.
Unless you are a healer, in which case you are an immortal god.

Sarousse

You can still go naked, without weapons, with 0 champoint points and still destroy all the overland solo content.

We've been asking for a difficulty cursor for years, and still nothing. I will never get why they nerfed the difficulty that much. It's an elder scrolls game, not World of Warcraft.

That's exactly why I won't buy the Skyrim or any further extension : I don't want to destroy all the content with 0 challenge.

madeeh91rwb17_ESO

Back when game came out, boss fights in Glenumbra story line(Wyerd Tree demon, werewolf Falchu in Camlorn etc) used to scare me.
And defeating them eventually, actually felt like an achievement and a heroic act.

Now they are a disgrace.

I have seen many people come from other games, feeling underwhelmed by the cakewalk that is ESO.

FierceSam

The Uninvited wrote: »

Come on ZOS, this quest used to scare people 5 years ago! It was also a quest where you learned to kite, dodge roll and block for incoming damage as if you were running a dungeon solo.

I am level 21, using crafted Hunding/s/Nightmother level 16 gear (all training trait) and Orzorga's Tripe Trifle Pocket for food. Bow skill line at level 10 when I started the quest.

I just bow light attacked myself through the whole quest... Health didn't even drop below 24K... Didn't even have to use healing skills...

When my first character was level 21, I was rubbish at the game, and he sported a mixed bag of gear, mostly white and green stuff of varying levels acquired from simply questing - and mainly heavy because he was a DK and knights wear heavy armour obvs, but only mainly heavy because he hadn’t found enough heavy pieces. He had no idea about food or potions and even if he did he was so unskilled he couldn’t craft any himself. He had no money and his shopping skills were still at Level 1 - What Are Shops Anyway?

His skill sets had no coherence and were simply thrown together and his execution of anything was, well, embarrassing at best, but mainly tragic. The idea that he could do more than light attack and use a skill was a distant pipe dream. Let alone kite, dodge roll, block etc. And that’s the level many players are at on their first characters.

Questing isn’t meant to be hard. It’s not about providing endless roadblock challenges or stretching players to their limits. It’s supposed to be fun and it’s supposed to cater for at least 95% of players if not more. And my guy was way way more representative of the average player than someone playing another alt, who’s experienced at the game, wearing crafted gear, with food from a DLC quest and a smarmy arsed attitude.

You might patronise players who find that quest hard, and you might be smug about how easy it is for you now, but lots of them will do it, enjoy it and come back for more. And when they’ve completed Fang Lair on a vet HM speed run they might still remember it as an enjoyable step on their road through ESO.

If you did it 5 years ago and are still playing today, I’d say it was pitched about right.

The Uninvited

FierceSam wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Come on ZOS, this quest used to scare people 5 years ago! It was also a quest where you learned to kite, dodge roll and block for incoming damage as if you were running a dungeon solo.

I am level 21, using crafted Hunding/s/Nightmother level 16 gear (all training trait) and Orzorga's Tripe Trifle Pocket for food. Bow skill line at level 10 when I started the quest.

I just bow light attacked myself through the whole quest... Health didn't even drop below 24K... Didn't even have to use healing skills...

When my first character was level 21, I was rubbish at the game, and he sported a mixed bag of gear, mostly white and green stuff of varying levels acquired from simply questing - and mainly heavy because he was a DK and knights wear heavy armour obvs, but only mainly heavy because he hadn’t found enough heavy pieces. He had no idea about food or potions and even if he did he was so unskilled he couldn’t craft any himself. He had no money and his shopping skills were still at Level 1 - What Are Shops Anyway?

His skill sets had no coherence and were simply thrown together and his execution of anything was, well, embarrassing at best, but mainly tragic. The idea that he could do more than light attack and use a skill was a distant pipe dream. Let alone kite, dodge roll, block etc. And that’s the level many players are at on their first characters.

Questing isn’t meant to be hard. It’s not about providing endless roadblock challenges or stretching players to their limits. It’s supposed to be fun and it’s supposed to cater for at least 95% of players if not more. And my guy was way way more representative of the average player than someone playing another alt, who’s experienced at the game, wearing crafted gear, with food from a DLC quest and a smarmy arsed attitude.

You might patronise players who find that quest hard, and you might be smug about how easy it is for you now, but lots of them will do it, enjoy it and come back for more. And when they’ve completed Fang Lair on a vet HM speed run they might still remember it as an enjoyable step on their road through ESO.

If you did it 5 years ago and are still playing today, I’d say it was pitched about right.

I am not trying to patronize and being smug at all, I have said nothing about other players in that regard.

I am also not asking for all overland to be harder. But the thing is that, in my opinion, main story line quests and guild quests should be a bit harder than the rest of overland, just to give players a sense of accomplishment when you finish that particular quest.

These type of quests (Mannimarco, Doshia and the mentioned Falchou (oh boy, I almost forgot about that one)) used to make you think as a new player, as in "maybe I should try one of those healing skills" or "maybe I should block or dodge when he does that certain attack".

Here's the thing...

I am going to fight Mannimarco, the most powerful necromancer in all of Tamriel, my executioner, he is able to create portals that summon ghosts and Bone Colossus and so on, he's going to steal Molag Bal's powers for crying out loud!

Should I use a healing skill maybe? Should I dodge/block/kite and watch for certain mechanics? Nah, I got my trusty level 16 bow here and I will just pew pew him to death!

There's a big difference in quests being a "endless roadblock challenges or stretching players to their limits" (that's what veteran trials and DLC dungeons are for) or just making it a bit more engaging.

Hallothiel

@FierceSam

Yep - same. On my main - I had no idea.

I played like this was a solo rpg, points evenly spaced between stam/mag/health. Ate food AND took a drink AT THE SAME TIME as did not know could not do that. Wore odd gear I got, nothing crafted. No idea about crafting etc (which is why took me four years to get top crafter title 😆)

My son helped early on, watching me die repeatedly to mini boss on a beach in Auridon, when he told me to stay out of the red....😳

Only when done all main stuff & looking at dungeons properly (had previously only done one - CoA 1 normal, 4 random chars running around clueless as no mic on ps4 or even no clue needed one) & joined a guild that taught me a LOT. Eternally grateful & made the game much more fun.

Yes, so now I slide through overland content with ease, even on new characters. Not just because of the cp, but because I have a far better understanding of the game, from points to sets to basic mechanics. So it’s not that surprising.

Do like it when do die though. Good to be reminded not completely a god. 😉

Elsonso

idk wrote: »

Also, this is not about scaling of gear and food and less about CP. Zos has made our characters, their spells and skills, stronger over the years. Power Creep has been real and it effects all levels. Zos does not have a real means to reset the power creep as many games do. Well, not an effective means that would not become a headache for all.

When One Tamriel dropped, they statically scaled the world to CP 160 and then dynamically scale the characters to match that as they level. That sort of setup gives them plenty of ways to reset the power creep, but I don't think they use those until they are doing with this multi-year skills and sets audit. That audit may end up correcting for some, or all, of the power creep, given the "OMG! NERF!" responses every time they change something.

jircris11 wrote: »

And if you notice a lvl 3 is stronger stat wise then a cp800. That us thanks to the stupid scaling they put in. So instead of getting stronger you actually get weaker till you have trial gear.

Working as intended. Part of the scaling is designed to fill in for gear that you don't have, but will need.

starkerealm wrote: »

Sancre Tor was easy, in part, because you had implausibly good gear. It was easy in part because you understood the basics of making a character. But, a major part of why you found it so trivial was because you were playing it with all that knowledge when it's difficulty was scaled for a newbie who was just learning the ropes, and had started by powering through the main quest.

This is something that sometimes goes unnoticed. Player skill cannot be reset just by starting a new character, or even a new account. If you watch a new player, they are doing everything wrong, and they die. Meanwhile, the experienced players are watching TV and eating dinner while doing the same content, and they never die.

zaria

jircris11 wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

If it makes any difference, here's my stats on this character at level 22. It's not like they are sky high or anything. Taking into account the gear scaling of course.

BAHAHAHA! The name! And if you notice a lvl 3 is stronger stat wise then a cp800. That us thanks to the stupid scaling they put in. So instead of getting stronger you actually get weaker till you have trial gear.

If you have decent crafted gear you are pretty strong at low levels as I assume the game are tuned for you having only found gear
Main issue on low level characters is lack of sustain unless I use sustain sets.

ProfessorKittyhawk

madeeh91rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Back when game came out, boss fights in Glenumbra story line(Wyerd Tree demon, werewolf Falchu in Camlorn etc) used to scare me.
And defeating them eventually, actually felt like an achievement and a heroic act.

Now they are a disgrace.

I have seen many people come from other games, feeling underwhelmed by the cakewalk that is ESO.

The Wyrd tree demon thing was soooo irritating. I remember waiting until I was way higher leveled to finish that quest back in the day.

And someone else mentioned gargoyles- those and storm atronachs used to be the bane of my existence back then. The odd delve that had these as normal mobs you had to deal with were nightmares.

FierceSam

The Uninvited wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Come on ZOS, this quest used to scare people 5 years ago! It was also a quest where you learned to kite, dodge roll and block for incoming damage as if you were running a dungeon solo.

I am level 21, using crafted Hunding/s/Nightmother level 16 gear (all training trait) and Orzorga's Tripe Trifle Pocket for food. Bow skill line at level 10 when I started the quest.

I just bow light attacked myself through the whole quest... Health didn't even drop below 24K... Didn't even have to use healing skills...

When my first character was level 21, I was rubbish at the game, and he sported a mixed bag of gear, mostly white and green stuff of varying levels acquired from simply questing - and mainly heavy because he was a DK and knights wear heavy armour obvs, but only mainly heavy because he hadn’t found enough heavy pieces. He had no idea about food or potions and even if he did he was so unskilled he couldn’t craft any himself. He had no money and his shopping skills were still at Level 1 - What Are Shops Anyway?

His skill sets had no coherence and were simply thrown together and his execution of anything was, well, embarrassing at best, but mainly tragic. The idea that he could do more than light attack and use a skill was a distant pipe dream. Let alone kite, dodge roll, block etc. And that’s the level many players are at on their first characters.

Questing isn’t meant to be hard. It’s not about providing endless roadblock challenges or stretching players to their limits. It’s supposed to be fun and it’s supposed to cater for at least 95% of players if not more. And my guy was way way more representative of the average player than someone playing another alt, who’s experienced at the game, wearing crafted gear, with food from a DLC quest and a smarmy arsed attitude.

You might patronise players who find that quest hard, and you might be smug about how easy it is for you now, but lots of them will do it, enjoy it and come back for more. And when they’ve completed Fang Lair on a vet HM speed run they might still remember it as an enjoyable step on their road through ESO.

If you did it 5 years ago and are still playing today, I’d say it was pitched about right.

I am not trying to patronize and being smug at all, I have said nothing about other players in that regard.

I am also not asking for all overland to be harder. But the thing is that, in my opinion, main story line quests and guild quests should be a bit harder than the rest of overland, just to give players a sense of accomplishment when you finish that particular quest.

These type of quests (Mannimarco, Doshia and the mentioned Falchou (oh boy, I almost forgot about that one)) used to make you think as a new player, as in "maybe I should try one of those healing skills" or "maybe I should block or dodge when he does that certain attack".

Here's the thing...

I am going to fight Mannimarco, the most powerful necromancer in all of Tamriel, my executioner, he is able to create portals that summon ghosts and Bone Colossus and so on, he's going to steal Molag Bal's powers for crying out loud!

Should I use a healing skill maybe? Should I dodge/block/kite and watch for certain mechanics? Nah, I got my trusty level 16 bow here and I will just pew pew him to death!

There's a big difference in quests being a "endless roadblock challenges or stretching players to their limits" (that's what veteran trials and DLC dungeons are for) or just making it a bit more engaging.

Except you’re going in with a fully crafted gear set, food, skills and 5 years of experience (and a bit of a pissy, self-entitled attitude). Forgetting what it was like when you started. And then whining that it’s too easy.

For something like the end quest to be a challenge to you, it would have to be utterly impossible for the vast majority of players. They’re way less skilled than you but enjoy the game every bit as much and it’s their baseline, not yours or mine that the challenge level of questing content is written for. And trust me, they won’t find it the faceroll you seem to think it is. They’ll come out of it feeling like they have achieved something and will continue playing the game. And that’s what questing is all about.

The devs recognise that different types of content have different challenge levels. And that questing will always be the easiest. Once upon a time vCoH was a major challenge for me, now it feels stupidly easy, but it’s me who’s changed, not the difficulty level. Right now, my challenge is vet Fang Lair HM, which, again, you may think is a faceroll, but to me it’s pitched just right - it’s bloody hard, and I haven’t done it yet, but in a week I think I’ll have got it sussed.

But that’s not the level and intensity anyone wants in a questline.

The Uninvited

FierceSam wrote: »

Except you’re going in with a fully crafted gear set, food, skills and 5 years of experience (and a bit of a pissy, self-entitled attitude). Forgetting what it was like when you started. And then whining that it’s too easy.

For something like the end quest to be a challenge to you, it would have to be utterly impossible for the vast majority of players. They’re way less skilled than you but enjoy the game every bit as much and it’s their baseline, not yours or mine that the challenge level of questing content is written for. And trust me, they won’t find it the faceroll you seem to think it is. They’ll come out of it feeling like they have achieved something and will continue playing the game. And that’s what questing is all about.

The devs recognise that different types of content have different challenge levels. And that questing will always be the easiest. Once upon a time vCoH was a major challenge for me, now it feels stupidly easy, but it’s me who’s changed, not the difficulty level. Right now, my challenge is vet Fang Lair HM, which, again, you may think is a faceroll, but to me it’s pitched just right - it’s bloody hard, and I haven’t done it yet, but in a week I think I’ll have got it sussed.

But that’s not the level and intensity anyone wants in a questline.

For the very last time, and for everyone that is saying I went in with fully crafted gear set, food and skills...

All I did was LIGHT ATTACKS ffs!

What would be the difference if I didn't use gear or food (because I surely didn't use skills so we can leave those out of the equation)? 15 light attacks instead of 5?

And once again you come up with the "that’s not the level and intensity anyone wants in a questline" argument. Look at my last remark and read it again and maybe understand what I'm saying here as we're actually agreeing on that part.

There's a big difference in quests being a "endless roadblock challenges or stretching players to their limits" (that's what veteran trials and DLC dungeons are for) or just making it a bit more engaging.

And before calling someone else self-entitled, I think you should take a good look in the mirror.

FierceSam

The Uninvited wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

Except you’re going in with a fully crafted gear set, food, skills and 5 years of experience (and a bit of a pissy, self-entitled attitude). Forgetting what it was like when you started. And then whining that it’s too easy.

For something like the end quest to be a challenge to you, it would have to be utterly impossible for the vast majority of players. They’re way less skilled than you but enjoy the game every bit as much and it’s their baseline, not yours or mine that the challenge level of questing content is written for. And trust me, they won’t find it the faceroll you seem to think it is. They’ll come out of it feeling like they have achieved something and will continue playing the game. And that’s what questing is all about.

The devs recognise that different types of content have different challenge levels. And that questing will always be the easiest. Once upon a time vCoH was a major challenge for me, now it feels stupidly easy, but it’s me who’s changed, not the difficulty level. Right now, my challenge is vet Fang Lair HM, which, again, you may think is a faceroll, but to me it’s pitched just right - it’s bloody hard, and I haven’t done it yet, but in a week I think I’ll have got it sussed.

But that’s not the level and intensity anyone wants in a questline.

For the very last time, and for everyone that is saying I went in with fully crafted gear set, food and skills...

All I did was LIGHT ATTACKS ffs!

What would be the difference if I didn't use gear or food (because I surely didn't use skills so we can leave those out of the equation)? 15 light attacks instead of 5?

And once again you come up with the "that’s not the level and intensity anyone wants in a questline" argument. Look at my last remark and read it again and maybe understand what I'm saying here as we're actually agreeing on that part.

There's a big difference in quests being a "endless roadblock challenges or stretching players to their limits" (that's what veteran trials and DLC dungeons are for) or just making it a bit more engaging.

And before calling someone else self-entitled, I think you should take a good look in the mirror.

And your issue is you don’t recognise that your ‘more engaging’ is many players’ ‘endless roadblock’. Unlike a single player game, this one isn’t about you (or me) so it can’t be tailored to our specific requirements.

The challenge the devs face is that they don’t want anyone to fail the questline. That’s not what questing is about. And that’s why players who are good at the game can do the questlines easily. Because even at the level they are now, some players find it hard. I know I found Rajhin’s Mantle crushingly hard at L19, which stopped me playing for ages.

You want a challenge? Find it in those areas that are designed so that only the best succeed. Enjoy the questlines as stories rather than challenges.

And don’t go all defensive when you’ve got ‘ride the paranoia’ in your signature lol

The Uninvited

FierceSam wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

Except you’re going in with a fully crafted gear set, food, skills and 5 years of experience (and a bit of a pissy, self-entitled attitude). Forgetting what it was like when you started. And then whining that it’s too easy.

For something like the end quest to be a challenge to you, it would have to be utterly impossible for the vast majority of players. They’re way less skilled than you but enjoy the game every bit as much and it’s their baseline, not yours or mine that the challenge level of questing content is written for. And trust me, they won’t find it the faceroll you seem to think it is. They’ll come out of it feeling like they have achieved something and will continue playing the game. And that’s what questing is all about.

The devs recognise that different types of content have different challenge levels. And that questing will always be the easiest. Once upon a time vCoH was a major challenge for me, now it feels stupidly easy, but it’s me who’s changed, not the difficulty level. Right now, my challenge is vet Fang Lair HM, which, again, you may think is a faceroll, but to me it’s pitched just right - it’s bloody hard, and I haven’t done it yet, but in a week I think I’ll have got it sussed.

But that’s not the level and intensity anyone wants in a questline.

For the very last time, and for everyone that is saying I went in with fully crafted gear set, food and skills...

All I did was LIGHT ATTACKS ffs!

What would be the difference if I didn't use gear or food (because I surely didn't use skills so we can leave those out of the equation)? 15 light attacks instead of 5?

And once again you come up with the "that’s not the level and intensity anyone wants in a questline" argument. Look at my last remark and read it again and maybe understand what I'm saying here as we're actually agreeing on that part.

There's a big difference in quests being a "endless roadblock challenges or stretching players to their limits" (that's what veteran trials and DLC dungeons are for) or just making it a bit more engaging.

And before calling someone else self-entitled, I think you should take a good look in the mirror.

And your issue is you don’t recognise that your ‘more engaging’ is many players’ ‘endless roadblock’. Unlike a single player game, this one isn’t about you (or me) so it can’t be tailored to our specific requirements.

The challenge the devs face is that they don’t want anyone to fail the questline. That’s not what questing is about. And that’s why players who are good at the game can do the questlines easily. Because even at the level they are now, some players find it hard. I know I found Rajhin’s Mantle crushingly hard at L19, which stopped me playing for ages.

You want a challenge? Find it in those areas that are designed so that only the best succeed. Enjoy the questlines as stories rather than challenges.

And don’t go all defensive when you’ve got ‘ride the paranoia’ in your signature lol

Here you go again with the assumptions. With a bit (emphasis on "bit" here) more engaging I don't mean DLC dungeon hardmode, but I guess you have figured that out by now. Yet you keep feeling the need to over-exaggerate what I mean with that, apparently just to make sure that your word is gospel and I am wrong, no matter if I agree with you. You must be fun at parties...

And yeah, lol indeed. That quote in my signature is the chorus of a song from one of my favorite bands.

kind_hero

idk wrote: »

I started this game in March 2014 and completed the main quest line twice in less than 2 months time. I never found Sancre Tor scary and I was doing the quests as soon I could so I was at level.

I am not suggesting things have not gotten easier. The power creep in this game has been very real with nothing to reset it.

I started in december 2014 and did the DC zone in 2015. I remember how hard was the last quest where you had to defeat Falchou the werewolf. You had to use the safe zones placed by the NPCs and several game mechanics. I did that quest last year and it was extremely easy. I used a fire staff ulti on the werewolf miniboss, used wall of elements, and he died before I it was needed to use any safe spot or heal.

I say these quests should be buffed slightly, same with Sancre Tor (I remember it being difficult)