Sancre Tor, this is how easy the game has become.

The Uninvited

And once again we have someone that didn't read much of what I said and draws their own conclusion based on that. Sigh...

TheFM

mazeikeen wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

I literally stand still and let them beat on me. I mean, seriously. And this was overland in clockwork city, not like it was the starter areas. Stood still, allowed them to cc and aoe me, used a single skill, funnel health on nightblade, I even simulated mistakes that new players would make , as in forgetting to dodge, block, weave, etc. I could not die. I tried, but could not. The only possible way I couldve died was to not use a single skill.

Ok, how about instead, you don't use your healing skill, and then get back to us. Preferably with video evidence.

Swallow soul is nightblades ranged spammable. And sure, I'll do it in a bit. And I guarantee you'll still say it's fine.

TheFM

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

Then you should have np completing the hardest achievements in the game and setting all new records in all the vet trials....

You did complete all the Vet Trials after all those years, right?

FierceSam wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

If I have any means to prove my point, this might be it.

I am doing the Village of the Lost public dungeon in Coldharbour right now. The bosses there pose a greater threat than Mannimarco in the main quest...

Interesting example. That’s because there’s a challenge hierarchy in the game

Overland questing is at one end of the scale, DLC dungeons and trials are at the other.

Public dungeons are somewhere in the middle. The clue is in the name and the notion that these are dungeons designed for multiple players to play in as a group, rather than deliberately designed solo content.

I’d never expect a quest to be as hard as a public dungeon because quests aren’t designed to be failed (and that is no easy development task). Dungeons of all types are designed to be a challenge and the expectation is that you may fail (repeatedly). That’s where players will begin to be encouraged to ‘get good’, not when they’re questing.

Amazingly, when I bimble into the Village of the Lost with my tooled up L21, it’s facerolltastic.. but that’s because public dungeons aren’t a challenge to me any more (what with my crafted gear, CP, buffs and years of playing the game under my belt), but I recognise they might still be a challenge to some (just as they were to the me who was playing when I first was a L21 character and had useless gear, skills and playing ability). And I recognise that the ‘public dungeon’ challenge level is fairly consistent across multiple zones (as it has been since 1Tamriel). I don’t want to f*** up their game just because I selfishly want the easiest part of the game to provide me with the same sense of challenge I now only get from DLC dungeons.

I understand that some people are so caught up in the storyline that they feel the central characters should be the biggest, baddest threats in all Tamriel, but the reality of the game is that they’re not. They are just pawns on the threatboard - hell some of Molag Bal’s minions’ minions in the IC sewers pose more of a threat than he does.

But that’s OK because even as impotent as you see him Molag Bal is still a significant threat to many, many players. And one who they feel a real sense of triumph beating the first time.

And I wouldn’t want to change that just because I want my 23rd go round to feel like it did the first time.

Very well put ^

OP you have completed all the Vet Trails and the hardest Achievements in ESO, right?

If not, there you go....

After years of playing you should naturally progress into the hardest content.

In PvP putting the odds against me, I certainty find it there.

In PvE having done some of the Vet Trials and all the Vet Arenas, trying to keep on the leaderboards. I have found it there, as well.

The story and overland is for newer players and all players to enjoy. It should be something for everyone to relax to. Completing all the quests, zone by zone, is enough of a grind in itself.

I don’t think people getting one shot by some random monster during a quest would help ZoS sales either.

We need a new players coming in, not running away.

Let's not insult new players saying they need it so easy that they need it so easy u can just stand there and light attack.

mazeikeen

TheFM wrote: »

Swallow soul is nightblades ranged spammable. And sure, I'll do it in a bit. And I guarantee you'll still say it's fine.

I'm aware. I main a magblade. Swallow Soul is also a healing ability. Looking forward to seeing your video.

jaws343

TheFM wrote: »

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

Then you should have np completing the hardest achievements in the game and setting all new records in all the vet trials....

You did complete all the Vet Trials after all those years, right?

FierceSam wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

If I have any means to prove my point, this might be it.

I am doing the Village of the Lost public dungeon in Coldharbour right now. The bosses there pose a greater threat than Mannimarco in the main quest...

Interesting example. That’s because there’s a challenge hierarchy in the game

Overland questing is at one end of the scale, DLC dungeons and trials are at the other.

Public dungeons are somewhere in the middle. The clue is in the name and the notion that these are dungeons designed for multiple players to play in as a group, rather than deliberately designed solo content.

I’d never expect a quest to be as hard as a public dungeon because quests aren’t designed to be failed (and that is no easy development task). Dungeons of all types are designed to be a challenge and the expectation is that you may fail (repeatedly). That’s where players will begin to be encouraged to ‘get good’, not when they’re questing.

Amazingly, when I bimble into the Village of the Lost with my tooled up L21, it’s facerolltastic.. but that’s because public dungeons aren’t a challenge to me any more (what with my crafted gear, CP, buffs and years of playing the game under my belt), but I recognise they might still be a challenge to some (just as they were to the me who was playing when I first was a L21 character and had useless gear, skills and playing ability). And I recognise that the ‘public dungeon’ challenge level is fairly consistent across multiple zones (as it has been since 1Tamriel). I don’t want to f*** up their game just because I selfishly want the easiest part of the game to provide me with the same sense of challenge I now only get from DLC dungeons.

I understand that some people are so caught up in the storyline that they feel the central characters should be the biggest, baddest threats in all Tamriel, but the reality of the game is that they’re not. They are just pawns on the threatboard - hell some of Molag Bal’s minions’ minions in the IC sewers pose more of a threat than he does.

But that’s OK because even as impotent as you see him Molag Bal is still a significant threat to many, many players. And one who they feel a real sense of triumph beating the first time.

And I wouldn’t want to change that just because I want my 23rd go round to feel like it did the first time.

Very well put ^

OP you have completed all the Vet Trails and the hardest Achievements in ESO, right?

If not, there you go....

After years of playing you should naturally progress into the hardest content.

In PvP putting the odds against me, I certainty find it there.

In PvE having done some of the Vet Trials and all the Vet Arenas, trying to keep on the leaderboards. I have found it there, as well.

The story and overland is for newer players and all players to enjoy. It should be something for everyone to relax to. Completing all the quests, zone by zone, is enough of a grind in itself.

I don’t think people getting one shot by some random monster during a quest would help ZoS sales either.

We need a new players coming in, not running away.

Let's not insult new players saying they need it so easy that they need it so easy u can just stand there and light attack.

I see new players die regularly to mobs in delves and overland. I've come upon many overland quest bosses with dead newbies at their feet. Not only that, but new players repeatedly complain about quest boss difficulty because they are forced into DLC zones first and try to do quests that are "harder" and they fail because they have no clue what they are doing. These DLC story/overland quests are as faceroll easy to experienced players as the main story and overland quests.

To act like anyone is insulting new players is ridiculous. We are just being realistic. New players have no clue what they are doing and the quests are designed with that in mind.

Sevn

The Uninvited wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Those quests are solo instances and really should level to the player better.

How?

The determinate factor is player skill, not raw stats. How do you adapt to player skill?

That's not as simple a question as it appears.

That would be true if I actually would have used skills.

Edit: What I mean by this, is that in my opinion raw stats are the determinate factor, rather than skill.

That, really, doesn't address what I was asking. I was asking how you could calibrate content around the skill level of the player, agnostic of their character's stats. That is a very difficult design question. It's not as simple as, "well, we make it harder." (Even then, that answer is reductive.)

Second thing is, you really need to step back from this idea that the only relevant skill in ESO is your ability to use active abilities.

I am not saying that the only relevant skill in ESO is using active abilities.

I am saying that all I did was light attack and moved the camera angle around to aim. So not just not using active abilities, also not dodging/kiting/blocking/break free and whatever else a skilled player might do or use.

Therefore, the only real difference with a new player, would be raw stats because of gear/food/CP. They could just scale solo instances depending on your raw stats if that seemed to be all that made the difference.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think that this has progressed to the point where you need to create a video. Start with your character, build, and gear. After that, take down the boss using only light attacks, while self-rooted.

I concur. I tire of these "I only used..." trust me on that examples. Just reminds me of when players claim to beat a world boss at level 4 with a white sword.

Still doesn't address the main dilemma though, how does Zos unilaterally decide on what is challenging for player A while not being too challenging for player B, while player C needs it even more challenging than player B but not as challenging as player A?

Fine, then both of you don't believe me, your choice.

It's funny though when people just make a U-turn from "you had CP allocated and gear and food and 5 years of experience!" to "if he really only used light attacks it must not be true".

I am trying to address a "problem" and am willing to discuss this with others so that's why I posted it on the forum. You're reaction has now become "he must be lying so there is no problem!"

Wonder why they made veteran modes of the Craglorn trials? Because people were able to run them in under 15 minutes or faster, because of stack & burn tactics and so on. They didn't even see mechanics on some stages.

That's why I mentioned the Village of the Lost public dungeon, that now feels like how the original Sancre Tor solo quest felt.

You know, you attack a boss and it CC's you, so you have to break free or it throws an AOE so you step out of the red or you see your health dropping so you use a healing ability or potion. Still super easy because of my stats/gear/experience and so on, of course, but at least a bit more engaging.

It was not my intention to imply you were lying nor did I call you one. It's simply easier to see the issue rather than hear it second hand.

The issue remains a unilateral agreement upon difficulty. What's your example of slight?

TheFM wrote: »

mazeikeen wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

I literally stand still and let them beat on me. I mean, seriously. And this was overland in clockwork city, not like it was the starter areas. Stood still, allowed them to cc and aoe me, used a single skill, funnel health on nightblade, I even simulated mistakes that new players would make , as in forgetting to dodge, block, weave, etc. I could not die. I tried, but could not. The only possible way I couldve died was to not use a single skill.

Ok, how about instead, you don't use your healing skill, and then get back to us. Preferably with video evidence.

Swallow soul is nightblades ranged spammable. And sure, I'll do it in a bit. And I guarantee you'll still say it's fine.

Kudos to you for not assuming someone is calling you a liar nor taking offense to someone asking for a visual aid in seeing what you are doing instead of relying on second hand info. Looking forward to a vid as well!

The Uninvited

Sevn wrote: »

It was not my intention to imply you were lying nor did I call you one. It's simply easier to see the issue rather than hear it second hand.

The issue remains a unilateral agreement upon difficulty. What's your example of slight?

TheFM wrote: »

mazeikeen wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

I literally stand still and let them beat on me. I mean, seriously. And this was overland in clockwork city, not like it was the starter areas. Stood still, allowed them to cc and aoe me, used a single skill, funnel health on nightblade, I even simulated mistakes that new players would make , as in forgetting to dodge, block, weave, etc. I could not die. I tried, but could not. The only possible way I couldve died was to not use a single skill.

Ok, how about instead, you don't use your healing skill, and then get back to us. Preferably with video evidence.

Swallow soul is nightblades ranged spammable. And sure, I'll do it in a bit. And I guarantee you'll still say it's fine.

Kudos to you for not assuming someone is calling you a liar nor taking offense to someone asking for a visual aid in seeing what you are doing instead of relying on second hand info. Looking forward to a vid as well!

Thank you for clarifying that, really appreciate it. It did seem to me you were implying that, but now I see that you just wanted visual proof as well.

Like I said, I might do it on NA server as I have no CP there (or crafting skills) and would have to use dropped sets.

FierceSam

The Uninvited wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

It was not my intention to imply you were lying nor did I call you one. It's simply easier to see the issue rather than hear it second hand.

The issue remains a unilateral agreement upon difficulty. What's your example of slight?

TheFM wrote: »

mazeikeen wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

I literally stand still and let them beat on me. I mean, seriously. And this was overland in clockwork city, not like it was the starter areas. Stood still, allowed them to cc and aoe me, used a single skill, funnel health on nightblade, I even simulated mistakes that new players would make , as in forgetting to dodge, block, weave, etc. I could not die. I tried, but could not. The only possible way I couldve died was to not use a single skill.

Ok, how about instead, you don't use your healing skill, and then get back to us. Preferably with video evidence.

Swallow soul is nightblades ranged spammable. And sure, I'll do it in a bit. And I guarantee you'll still say it's fine.

Kudos to you for not assuming someone is calling you a liar nor taking offense to someone asking for a visual aid in seeing what you are doing instead of relying on second hand info. Looking forward to a vid as well!

Thank you for clarifying that, really appreciate it. It did seem to me you were implying that, but now I see that you just wanted visual proof as well.

Like I said, I might do it on NA server as I have no CP there (or crafting skills) and would have to use dropped sets.

It’s unlikely to help make things more difficult.

Your fundamental ‘problem’ is that you’ve got good. No doubt it took a while and you’re now very proficient.

But no matter how long it took or how hard you had to work to get there, the journey back to ‘stupid’ is way harder and a lot longer. And you ain’t nearly there yet.

Instead of trying to convince everyone how easy overland content is for you, and how much of an anticlimax that makes the questing storylines, spend a bit of time watching new players coming out of the tutorial area in Elsweyr and see how they do against mobs. And not the ones that immediately call out their bankers or get on their horses, but the genuinely new players who’ve just booted up the game and got started. See how they do.

You might have tried to be as unskilled and unready as they are, but you are still leagues ahead of them.

They’re the players who the main quest is tuned to. They’re the ones who have to be so enchanted with the game that they’ll stick around (unlike many more experienced players who will dive in, do all the new content and leave two weeks later for the next ‘new game’, because no matter how hard you make the main quest, they’ll be done with it be then and on their way). The new guys, the ones that start off like Bambi on ice, they might stick around a little longer.

btw I’ve just watched Xynode doing Maelstrom Arena with his L10 newb DK in stolen white armour and almost no skills. Now, admittedly he’s doing more than light attacking, and it’s normal MA, but he’s caning it. That place, to him, is what overland content is to you or me.

The Uninvited

FierceSam wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

It was not my intention to imply you were lying nor did I call you one. It's simply easier to see the issue rather than hear it second hand.

The issue remains a unilateral agreement upon difficulty. What's your example of slight?

TheFM wrote: »

mazeikeen wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

I literally stand still and let them beat on me. I mean, seriously. And this was overland in clockwork city, not like it was the starter areas. Stood still, allowed them to cc and aoe me, used a single skill, funnel health on nightblade, I even simulated mistakes that new players would make , as in forgetting to dodge, block, weave, etc. I could not die. I tried, but could not. The only possible way I couldve died was to not use a single skill.

Ok, how about instead, you don't use your healing skill, and then get back to us. Preferably with video evidence.

Swallow soul is nightblades ranged spammable. And sure, I'll do it in a bit. And I guarantee you'll still say it's fine.

Kudos to you for not assuming someone is calling you a liar nor taking offense to someone asking for a visual aid in seeing what you are doing instead of relying on second hand info. Looking forward to a vid as well!

Thank you for clarifying that, really appreciate it. It did seem to me you were implying that, but now I see that you just wanted visual proof as well.

Like I said, I might do it on NA server as I have no CP there (or crafting skills) and would have to use dropped sets.

It’s unlikely to help make things more difficult.

Your fundamental ‘problem’ is that you’ve got good. No doubt it took a while and you’re now very proficient.

But no matter how long it took or how hard you had to work to get there, the journey back to ‘stupid’ is way harder and a lot longer. And you ain’t nearly there yet.

Instead of trying to convince everyone how easy overland content is for you, and how much of an anticlimax that makes the questing storylines, spend a bit of time watching new players coming out of the tutorial area in Elsweyr and see how they do against mobs. And not the ones that immediately call out their bankers or get on their horses, but the genuinely new players who’ve just booted up the game and got started. See how they do.

You might have tried to be as unskilled and unready as they are, but you are still leagues ahead of them.

They’re the players who the main quest is tuned to. They’re the ones who have to be so enchanted with the game that they’ll stick around (unlike many more experienced players who will dive in, do all the new content and leave two weeks later for the next ‘new game’, because no matter how hard you make the main quest, they’ll be done with it be then and on their way). The new guys, the ones that start off like Bambi on ice, they might stick around a little longer.

btw I’ve just watched Xynode doing Maelstrom Arena with his L10 newb DK in stolen white armour and almost no skills. Now, admittedly he’s doing more than light attacking, and it’s normal MA, but he’s caning it. That place, to him, is what overland content is to you or me.

I hope you've read my last reply that was directed to you as well?

And yeah, players like us can use normal MA as a leveling spot and have a bit of challenge. But that's not the difficulty level I was aiming for here.

Iccotak

Roadblocking the easiest part of the game by putting in unnecessary group content is a bad idea.

It's frustrating when no one reads what I fully said

I said OPTIONAL setting
as in you could do Solo single player experience for the story if you wanted
You could also do group play and do the story together (like a dungeon)

Not Once, at any point, did I say roadblock the story for players. EVER.

starkerealm

TequilaFire wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Another flawed assumption is that new players can't handle a reasonable amount of difficulty as if they have never played any game other than Hello Kitty in their life.

No, the expectation is that their only prior experience with MMOs has been hotbar combat. Which, in case it was unclear, is not how ESO's combat works.

People play many different types of games not just MMO giving them broad experience with many combat systems.
Skyrim even on easy setting was more challenging and I won't even get into Morrowind.

It is also a mistake to assume that a new player has a broad base of experience of previous games. While I'll grant you, many games overcompensate in holding the player's hand, you cannot assume that a new player has any background. We all had to start somewhere.

And again you keep ignoring the fact that I suggest solo instances should scale to player stats.
The experience for a new player should be taught by the content.
Aren't circular arguments fun?

Solo instances already so scale to single players so you keep suggesting something new for the game THAT ALREADY EXISTS IN THE GAME.

New players have a tutorial, that is where they should be taught as that is the purpose of a tutorial.

They do not scale up for players with higher stats else this thread would not exist.
Never fear ZOS won't take the time to change anything anyway.

This thread would still exist because even if such scaling occurred (which it used to) as a veteran player, you will find the content trivial. Which is why you're begging for these changes in the first place.

The problem is irreconcilable. You cannot simultaneously develop a game tuned to your level of experience and make it accessible to new players.

As pointed out earlier, even if you grossly exaggerated the stats of enemies in those encounters, and added new more brutal mechanics, it would still be trivial in comparison to content you've already cleared. All you would succeed in doing is making that content tedious to play through, even for experienced players.

If you want a single player challenge, go run vMA. But if you've run vMA, it is entirely unreasonable to expect a challenge for content directed at new players.

Again, player stats are meaningless in ESO. You can clear vMA at CP10 (really probably around 23 by the time you finish) if you know and understand the mechanics. Meanwhile a casual who worked their way to 810 doing writs and story quests will be curb stomped.

Further, it would create a permanent fail state for anyone who took the advice of members of the community who advocate for grinding. Convinced to grind their first character in Skyreach, they still wouldn't know how to play, but now would be confronted with a game where all of the content was now scaled well beyond their actual, noobish, skill.

relentless_turnip

The Uninvited wrote: »

Also, I'm below level 50 so if I'm not mistaken CP doesn't work yet. So, this is all due to the level scaling of gear and food.

You can use your account wide CP from level 1.

Kesstryl

At some point light attacks were buffed to deal a lot more damage, which is why we now have the light attack weaving meta. this is probably where most of the power creep has come from. New players that don't have CP, 5 piece armor sets, or know how to light attack but are hitting skill bar keys and medium-heavy attacking do not need more things nerfed for them. I've been playing since beta and I have never asked for things to be nerfed in overland because I know how to have an imagination and empathy for new players who don't know the system like I do. Last year I did make a new character and forgot to allocate CP, and used whatever gear I happened to loot, and overland was not a cake walk like many of you seem to imply, so unless you want to personally train every new player in how to do things, stop asking for nerfs to players.

FierceSam

Kesstryl wrote: »

At some point light attacks were buffed to deal a lot more damage, which is why we now have the light attack weaving meta. this is probably where most of the power creep has come from. New players that don't have CP, 5 piece armor sets, or know how to light attack but are hitting skill bar keys and medium-heavy attacking do not need more things nerfed for them. I've been playing since beta and I have never asked for things to be nerfed in overland because I know how to have an imagination and empathy for new players who don't know the system like I do. Last year I did make a new character and forgot to allocate CP, and used whatever gear I happened to loot, and overland was not a cake walk like many of you seem to imply, so unless you want to personally train every new player in how to do things, stop asking for nerfs to players.

I think this is the way forward.

Nerf The Uninvited

(Lol)

FierceSam

Actually there was a thread recently with an interesting idea on how to make overland content more ‘risky’ if not more challenging.

The player was intending to have no soul gems with them, meaning any death would be an immediate revive at weyshrine. While this wouldn’t alter the difficulty of the content, it would add a small amount of additional peril, which might make the content more fun for experienced players. I know that I have found easier dungeons are more fun when you are deliberately trying to get no death speed runs (as opposed to simply running through them and not dying). It’s the knowledge that death actually has a consequence even though it’s still unlikely that makes it more fun.

Easy for a player to implement and cost free.

starkerealm

Kesstryl wrote: »

At some point light attacks were buffed to deal a lot more damage, which is why we now have the light attack weaving meta.

The light attack change came with Summerset. The light attack weave predates that going back to the early days of the game, but the impact was significantly strengthened. The gradual CP climb, and 5pc sets have more to do with power creep, the light attack change was more of a one time buff for most players.

The Uninvited

FierceSam wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

At some point light attacks were buffed to deal a lot more damage, which is why we now have the light attack weaving meta. this is probably where most of the power creep has come from. New players that don't have CP, 5 piece armor sets, or know how to light attack but are hitting skill bar keys and medium-heavy attacking do not need more things nerfed for them. I've been playing since beta and I have never asked for things to be nerfed in overland because I know how to have an imagination and empathy for new players who don't know the system like I do. Last year I did make a new character and forgot to allocate CP, and used whatever gear I happened to loot, and overland was not a cake walk like many of you seem to imply, so unless you want to personally train every new player in how to do things, stop asking for nerfs to players.

I think this is the way forward.

Nerf The Uninvited

(Lol)

doomette

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

I think there is a flaw at the heart of this argument. It is making the assumption that the goal of the game is to become better at combat.

But there are players who don't care about combat. Players who are here for the stories and lore, the exploration, and things like that. They might care more about crafting or decorating their house than combat. They might care more about buying and selling items on a guild trader and tracking profits than about combat. They might get more excited finding some rare ingredient like Aetherial Dust while farming than about beating Mannimarco. They might care more about roleplaying as a moon sugar farmer than about combat. They might get more excited at the prospect of talking to a dragon than battling a dragon. They might get more excited about pickpocketing a Redoran motif page than about becoming a great warrior admired by the Redoran. They might be more excited about finding all the skyshards in a zone without consulting an addon or google than about defeating a Lich.

They might want to play in first person to feel more immersed in the world of Elder Scrolls, and first person all but negates the ability to see many of the combat queues. You say, "Don't stand in the red," and they say, "What red?" Because they do not see their feet. You say, "Dodge roll that line of fire coming from the add," and they, "What fire? What add?" Because it is to their left and they can only see straight ahead in first person.

For players who see increasingly difficult combat encounters as progression and endgame, the overland and story quest difficulty seems insanely neutered. But if you are someone who does not care about combat and maybe even actively dislikes it, there is still a lot to do in ESO! So easy, nearly foolproof combat in areas designed for questing/exploring is there for the people who are not focused on combat as their reason for playing the game.

You see combat as the purpose of the game and treat much of what I mentioned above as mindless busy work on the way to more combat. And if that other stuff became less mindless, it might very well start to irritate you. But for other people, the above stuff is the purpose of the game and combat is just mindless busy work on the way to more lore, exploration, commerce, roleplaying, and so on. And if combat became less mindless, it might very well start to irritate them.

The story questing and overland combat does not impede you from more difficult content, if that is what you find fun. And the story questing and overland combat does not impede other players from lore, exploration, commerce, roleplaying, and so on, if that is what they find fun.

I just have to say I really appreciate your nonjudgmental way of explaining this. I love that this game has different things to focus on for different people, it brings a nice diversity of gamers that enrich the community as a whole. I love the creativity that it encourages, be it a off-meta, but fun and viable builds; super number-crunchy, original min-max builds; fabulously decorated houses; gloriously ostentatious outfits; clever PVP tactics; whatever. No focus is better than the other, and scoffing at “carebears” who don’t play a certain way is tiresome and silly.

WordsOfPower

mocap wrote: »

i barely remember pre OT times, but big gargoyle (or it's Titan?) - side semi-boss in quest when you need to create flesh atronach to break the door (rescuing Tharn mission). I remember i killed that boss from ~7th try, ended by kiting him a lot.

Hey thanks for the memory. He was tricky, that's true. Also the woman who turns into a harvester (Doshia?) from thy first FG quest. And Molag Bal was actually really hard, not a gimmie as he is now.

It's actually really hard to die to these things now.

I really don't understand why ZOS did all this. They never really explained it. I never ever heard anyone moaning about how the game was TOO hard.

Elsonso

.

WordsOfPower wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

i barely remember pre OT times, but big gargoyle (or it's Titan?) - side semi-boss in quest when you need to create flesh atronach to break the door (rescuing Tharn mission). I remember i killed that boss from ~7th try, ended by kiting him a lot.

I really don't understand why ZOS did all this. They never really explained it. I never ever heard anyone moaning about how the game was TOO hard.

Metrics from live game play, according to one stream. Can't remember if it was ESO Live or Slashlurk. Someone from the Encounter Team or Combat Team probably watches this sort of thing to make sure that actual game play matches expected results.

Also, with reference to the "~7th try", I wonder if the auto-nerf is still in the game. This was a system they put in where, if the player was struggling to kill a monster, they would detect this through repeated attempts and apply nerfs until the player is able to kill it. It has been years since I even thought about this and I don't recall ever hearing whether this was removed.

WiseSky

From my experience, people who talk about this topic, talk so much about it they eventually get banned.

It's a heated subject.

AcadianPaladin

This is a Feb 2020 thread. . . .

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

We have closed this topic as it was originally created in February 2020. In many cases, it's better to create a new thread on a topic that you want to discuss as opposed to bumping one that is rather old.

Thank you for your understanding.