Why are people so bad at the game?

ichibe · November 2017

PUGed VICP yesterday on my healer, it took a while and cycled through 2 groups but the ones willing to stay are the ones that “never made it this far” or ever finished it. I had time to kill and was bored anyways so I felt like teaching because we have all been there at one point. I assume some of you don’t have children and have 0 patience when it comes to learning something difficult. But the reward was exciting and a challenge. For the first time in a while that *** had my adrenaline pumping keeping everyone up and pushing though with the warden. When we finally killed him on around the 4th pull those kids were so excited and freaking out.

You think your good? If you can’t teach FNG’s the mechanics and compensate with your experience, you suck and are even worse than them. I’ve healed pugs through every vet dungeon in this game for tons of folks who have never finished before. I take that *** as a challenge, it’s how you better yourself.

s7732425ub17_ESO · November 2017

Sadly, most players will never realize that you do not need a dedicated healer for 4 person content. However, you do need a certain level of skill 99% of players will never reach.

Takuto · November 2017

99% of the game is solo content which has been scaled back to the point that any random level 10 can complete it without knowing the basic block/dodge/interrupt mechanics of the game.

Most encounters consist of 2-3 low health mobs with pac-man level AI, neutered to not use any effective attacks, never land a critical strikes, and never use any defensive abilities. As such players with what seems like an effective overworld PvE build will likely end up with a 1-2-3 combo of stun-spike-execute, rather than a rotation. The DoTs that are the lifeblood of end-game high-dps are a complete waste of time on NPCs with only 30k health after all. In the end you have players who don't have rotation, don't even have important dots slotted, and may well have not even leveled them up.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · November 2017

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Sadly, most players will never realize that you do not need a dedicated healer for 4 person content. However, you do need a certain level of skill 99% of players will never reach.

I don't want content that doesn't need the Trinity, I want a healer, I want a tank. I want the DPS to show good numbers. If I wanted to play a build that didn't need a healer, I would run vMA with it. I am not building a DPS that can survive on their own just because people like you can do it. You can run all content in the game with four dps set up with vMA in mind but that is boring as all hell for me.

It is not "skill" that gets you to that level either. It it is sloting harness instead of trap or some other DPS skill. Again, if I didnt want to rely on a healer, I would just play solo and do vMA or solo the damn dungeon by myself, I would join the random veteran queue and be like, you get good or die. Jesus.

Beastnas · November 2017

The bad ones are the people who think they know it all, and drop group the second something goes awry on the first attempt.

The good ones are the people who stick around, maybe wipe a few times, but actually learn and successfully pass the mechanics and what it takes to fulfill their role.

Mureel · November 2017

Gulnagel wrote: »

I main a healer and farmed WGT a lot, even beaten it in hardmode veteran with random groups, but to get a group like that is equal to winning the lottery.

Often in dungeons it's a tedious and time-consuming battle, sometimes it feels like the dps heals the enemies, the glorious last boss in direfrost keep for instance that heals more than the dps do damage more often than not. And these are high CP players.

When I get a good dps group I still get surprised. In other games it wasn't like this , when I got a bad dps group it was rare. In eso it's reversed, why is it like this?

Is it because the "play as you want" mentality which screws over builds?

Is it the "I'm queing as a tank for veteran dungeons, but I'm an dps"

Is it because people don't know about rotation, skills that complement eatchother.

Bottom line is, how fun can it be, being way over CP 300 and pull 5-15 K dps?

We need a sheet after eatch dungeon or trial run that show us dps and healing done, maybe then people actually see how bad they are and try to compensate. If 1 dps does 10 % of all damage and the other do 90 %. It will hopefully be a wakeup call to get better? Like K/D makes people play at their best in FPS games, and research weapons and kits to be competitive.

Why is it like this?

TBH you're so rude and apparently lacking in patience and also have to pug - maybe it's you who's bad. I mean if you were that awesome, how come you need to do pledges with pugs?

I only do pledges with pugs to help people who might be waiting a long time with no healer.

Why are you? Just to be judgy toward others?

Dapper Dinosaur · November 2017

TBH you're so rude and apparently lacking in patience and also have to pug - maybe it's you who's bad. I mean if you were that awesome, how come you need to do pledges with pugs?

I only do pledges with pugs to help people who might be waiting a long time with no healer.

Why are you? Just to be judgy toward others?

You can complete pledges alone on normal. You cannot complete pledges on veteran hard mode by yourself in basically all cases. This means you have to PUG.

s7732425ub17_ESO · November 2017

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Sadly, most players will never realize that you do not need a dedicated healer for 4 person content. However, you do need a certain level of skill 99% of players will never reach.

I don't want content that doesn't need the Trinity, I want a healer, I want a tank. I want the DPS to show good numbers. If I wanted to play a build that didn't need a healer, I would run vMA with it. I am not building a DPS that can survive on their own just because people like you can do it. You can run all content in the game with four dps set up with vMA in mind but that is boring as all hell for me.

It is not "skill" that gets you to that level either. It it is sloting harness instead of trap or some other DPS skill. Again, if I didnt want to rely on a healer, I would just play solo and do vMA or solo the damn dungeon by myself, I would join the random veteran queue and be like, you get good or die. Jesus.

No, there is definitely tons of skill involved. You avoid damage with skill. You don't get one-shot with skill. Take unskilled players into VWGT HM with the best healer in the world and watch them die over and over and over. And take a skilled player into the same fight with the worst healer in the world and they will do just fine.

Danksta · November 2017

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

TBH you're so rude and apparently lacking in patience and also have to pug - maybe it's you who's bad. I mean if you were that awesome, how come you need to do pledges with pugs?

I only do pledges with pugs to help people who might be waiting a long time with no healer.

Why are you? Just to be judgy toward others?

You can complete pledges alone on normal. You cannot complete pledges on veteran hard mode by yourself in basically all cases. This means you have to PUG.

Why not??

potirondb16_ESO · November 2017

Tandor wrote: »

It's not so much that some people are so bad, it's that some people think they're so good.

loll, that is an awesome joke

Tbh, the main issue in the game is the lack of level of difficulty, it is my opinion that it is a 100% normal that any given player should want to do veteran dungeon. Even if you only reach 3/7k dps, I'll be fine with it (if I brought a dps) but, the underlying issue still being that a well-put dungeon crawler group will bring over 90k dps to the table (and that's if they have a healer). Having only two level of difficulty is the real shame as far as dungeon and trial go. A lot of game notices it and adapt their game design. Why haven't we got that yet ? well that could lead to a lot of answer, but up to this point it is what this game lacks, in term of game design.

Kram8ion · November 2017

Oh my how boring it would be in a room of mirrors

Dapper Dinosaur · November 2017

Danksta wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

TBH you're so rude and apparently lacking in patience and also have to pug - maybe it's you who's bad. I mean if you were that awesome, how come you need to do pledges with pugs?

I only do pledges with pugs to help people who might be waiting a long time with no healer.

Why are you? Just to be judgy toward others?

You can complete pledges alone on normal. You cannot complete pledges on veteran hard mode by yourself in basically all cases. This means you have to PUG.

Why not??

Almost all of the II versions of the dungeons have at least one mechanic that literally ties a player down and kills them automatically if the rest of the team can't succeed at an objective. Other dungeons have crowd-control mechanics that will stack up if only one player tries to take the dungeon on, until they have exhausted all their stamina breaking out of it and then get perma-ccd until they're dead.

Then there's the amount of time it takes. It's just not worth it. Normal dungeons are different because the health pools are much smaller there. Soloing a veteran dungeon, if the one you're attempting is even possible, would take hours.

montjie · November 2017

This game does little to nothing to make you (want to) improve as a player in whatever youre doing so people who arent really interested in getting better simply wont.

If I pass with a 5.5 why would I ever try to get a 10? It gets the job done right

kylewwefan · November 2017

some of the best players I know spend a lot and I mean a lot of time with the target skeleton. Admittedly, so have I; but unfortunately it’s the only real way to know if your getting better.

You’ll have a hard time convincing anyone they need to do this. But if it’s taking them more than two to kill this thing, they need work.

Oh, and it is not fun. And can get pricey if using crafted potions, that you should be using to get higher damage.

This is really on,y for PvE group play. It won’t help you in PvP and you can pretty much do whatever you want for the regular game.

Danksta · November 2017

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

TBH you're so rude and apparently lacking in patience and also have to pug - maybe it's you who's bad. I mean if you were that awesome, how come you need to do pledges with pugs?

I only do pledges with pugs to help people who might be waiting a long time with no healer.

Why are you? Just to be judgy toward others?

You can complete pledges alone on normal. You cannot complete pledges on veteran hard mode by yourself in basically all cases. This means you have to PUG.

Why not??

Almost all of the II versions of the dungeons have at least one mechanic that literally ties a player down and kills them automatically if the rest of the team can't succeed at an objective. Other dungeons have crowd-control mechanics that will stack up if only one player tries to take the dungeon on, until they have exhausted all their stamina breaking out of it and then get perma-ccd until they're dead.

Then there's the amount of time it takes. It's just not worth it. Normal dungeons are different because the health pools are much smaller there. Soloing a veteran dungeon, if the one you're attempting is even possible, would take hours.

I hate to break it to you bud but there are very few vet dungeons that can't be soloed, and there are many that I can do in under an hour. That's not to mention the players that are much better than me.

Dapper Dinosaur · December 2017

Danksta wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

TBH you're so rude and apparently lacking in patience and also have to pug - maybe it's you who's bad. I mean if you were that awesome, how come you need to do pledges with pugs?

I only do pledges with pugs to help people who might be waiting a long time with no healer.

Why are you? Just to be judgy toward others?

You can complete pledges alone on normal. You cannot complete pledges on veteran hard mode by yourself in basically all cases. This means you have to PUG.

Why not??

Almost all of the II versions of the dungeons have at least one mechanic that literally ties a player down and kills them automatically if the rest of the team can't succeed at an objective. Other dungeons have crowd-control mechanics that will stack up if only one player tries to take the dungeon on, until they have exhausted all their stamina breaking out of it and then get perma-ccd until they're dead.

Then there's the amount of time it takes. It's just not worth it. Normal dungeons are different because the health pools are much smaller there. Soloing a veteran dungeon, if the one you're attempting is even possible, would take hours.

I hate to break it to you bud but there are very few vet dungeons that can't be soloed, and there are many that I can do in under an hour. That's not to mention the players that are much better than me.

Fungal Grotto tie-down shadows
Darkshade Caverns Sleep-venom beetle
Elden Hollow Fear shadows
Blackheart Haven skeleton curse
Crypt of Hearts Nirieneth corruption attack
Direfrost Keep's two-panel door

That's 6 dungeons that I can remember just off the top of my head that are either literally impossible or at least extremely difficult to solo.

Eyesinthedrk · December 2017

I think animation canceling is the biggest difference when it comes to comparing skill levels between eso and other games.

If it was just a matter of casting abilities then a lot more would be considered good. But finding people that know that they should light weave and block or swap cancel is a huge talent separator. That's not even getting into being any good at actually doing it.

Magdalina · December 2017

5-15k, right...I'm jumping happy if I get dps that can actually pull 10k+ each in a vet dungeon, I've seen grand lows of 3k group dps(that's cp levels too) when tanking.

Main issue is absolute lack of learning curve. You can roflstomp open world while rping drunk naked nord and you have no source whatsoever to show you you're in fact severely underperforming up until vet dungeons. The second main issue is that this "play how you want" mentality...it discourages people from learning whatsoever. I still enjoy teaching new players, I will make them purple armor for free, give food, link guides, explain stuff, whatever, but they need to actually be willing to LISTEN. I'm finding myself having less and less patience for people who just refuse to because after facekeyboarding their way to cp levels they understandably feel they got it.

The tanks who keep running bosses out of all aoes and ultis despite being asked not to 7596523 times. The dps who RUN AWAY FROM YOU because boss hurts and they think they can outrun the damage but all they do is outrun the heals that could save them. The whole teams who never ever res because Idk, much rather wipe 5 times in a row than spend 5 seconds ressing - even after offered soulgems. The 13k health people in vet dungeons who refuse to eat food even if you give them some because "I don't need food and the fact that I just got one shot 5 times in a row is to be blamed on healer/tank". The light attack spammers who literally seem unaware skills exist.

The main issue is that when you try to teach them something usually in best case they don't answer, in worst they curse you out for telling them how to play. There're exceptions of course but it's an alarming minority in my experience. I can get pugs through vet COS and ROM if they're willing to listen but there's no even passing 2nd boss in FG 2 if they keep ignoring instructions.

Dapper Dinosaur · December 2017

@Magdalina Just stop wasting your time and initiate vote-kicks. Force the players to learn on their own time and not yours. Refuse to put up with their stupidity.

SisterGoat · December 2017

Beastnas wrote: »

The bad ones are the people who think they know it all, and drop group the second something goes awry on the first attempt.

The good ones are the people who stick around, maybe wipe a few times, but actually learn and successfully pass the mechanics and what it takes to fulfill their role.

People who drop group after a single death in a trial really irk me, especially when other people are trying to learn how do mechanics. The death penalty is extremely forgiving. It's hard to get 12 people sometimes, then you gotta keep finding more.

Bobby_V_Rockit · December 2017

Magdalina wrote: »

5-15k, right...I'm jumping happy if I get dps that can actually pull 10k+ each in a vet dungeon, I've seen grand lows of 3k group dps(that's cp levels too) when tanking.

I dont understand, if I just stand there and hold the heavy attack button its 5k DPS on a dummy...

Asardes · December 2017

Fortunately my characters are almost always capable of carrying a group in normal dungeons and some of the vet ones. But then comes one when the rest are simply to stupid to compensate for. I ended up in normal Falkreath Hold with a group of 2 maximum CP people and a 500+ CP one. I told myself "this is gonna be easy", since I saw there was already a tank assigned (I had ticked both tank and DD). The "tank" was a NB with 1H+S that only occasionally taunted things, and the only thing was did most of the time was aimlessly weave light attacks and Sap Essence. At the mammoth boss I told him to tank it in the corner, whilst jumping at the exact spot. Of course he didn't, and the boss ran all over the place. We wiped on 1st attempt, but beat it on 2nd one, with great difficulty - he still didn't give a damn about what I told him but I was somehow able to kill it. We reached the skeleton boss and then I explained the tactic in group chat, and again there was no response. The "tank" was taunting the 2H add, while I rushed and killed the others, took their essence and put it on the shiny patches. I killed the 2H about 3x, but the tank was eating the essence and sitting there, resetting the add about 4x in a row while I was writing "take it to circle" and jumping in the general direction. I was able to grab it and put it on the patch myself and start the boss fight. I wasn't able to kill it though since it was again running all over the place and bumping into ghosts. By that point I had had enough and left. Throughout the dungeon I was pulling 70-80% of group DPS and 40-50% of healing. This is yet another proof that you can have as many CP as you like, but that doesn't prevent you from being an absolute fool.

Magdalina · December 2017

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

5-15k, right...I'm jumping happy if I get dps that can actually pull 10k+ each in a vet dungeon, I've seen grand lows of 3k group dps(that's cp levels too) when tanking.

I dont understand, if I just stand there and hold the heavy attack button its 5k DPS on a dummy...

I dunno. I assume there's also running around without attacking in there because mechanics and/or getting scared(more the latter given these people don't usually know mechanics), but I honestly have seen group's dps of 3-5k in cp groups(not counting my own dps in support role).

Ballzy321 · December 2017

Don’t use group finder

Splattercat_83 · December 2017

cecibergesnrb18_ESO wrote: »

Because only a few builds are viable (do enough damage for a quick dungeon) and most people want to play with the skills they like.

So who's fault is it? Yes I guess that anyone that queues for a dungeon should carry their weight; but also the game is at fault for allowing so little variety. Or maybe the variety is not the problem but the huge difference between a "meta" build and a custom one.

Gear is icing on the cake. People were getting no deaths and speed runs way before the new gear sets and cp increases. Its not the gear its the player.

Fingolfinn01 · February 2020

I thought I was ok, however that last boss on bloodforge made me look like noob. Should I even be playing computer games when I am that bad. Plus my account name doesn't help. Peeps read @Fingolfinn01 an epic name from middle earth. He must be epic. Unfortunately I am average in the middle tier gear. And in some encounters below average. Might have to try and pug some trials for top tier gear. Dps here.

ZOS_Volpe · February 2020

Greetings,

We have closed this topic as it was originally created in 2017 and the information contained within may no longer be relevant to the game. In many cases, instead of bumping a thread that is rather old, it's better to create a new thread on a topic that you want to discuss.

Thank you for your understanding.