Why are people so bad at the game?

Drakkdjinn

Kanar wrote: »

DPS always seems to get the blame, but in the harder dungeons (dlc) I usually find it's the healers and tanks holding the pug back. Death-prone DPS seems to get vetted out pretty quick in those dungeons but a mediocre tank or healer can skate by until the end boss. Mostly the dungeon failure is due to too many deaths from mechanics cause those roles don't really need to learn mechanics like a DPS does. Healers thinking they can heal through boss mechanics, tanks standing in red thinking they can block through it, boss not taunted causing DPS to be one shot; these types of things cause dungeon failures.
Only takes one bad player to ruin a dlc dungeon run. If I spend half my time rezzing the healer or other DPS, then it's gonna be a long, tough fight.

When the DPS are good enough, there are no mechanics.

Gulnagel

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

if you spend all of your time looking at how bad you think others are, then what do you think others see you as?

how about just doing your best in the group, and let things just happen as they will and stop trying to be God Mode and Rule over others in the Group you were lucky enough to be a part of.

I actually never thought of it like that, it all makes sense.

Now I will join all veteran DLC dungeons in groupfinder with my healer and run around picking up items. Healing, what is that? They should feel lucky to be in a group with me while I spam light and heavy attacks

I assume that you missed the part where he said "do your best".

I assume you missed the whole thread, I always do my best, but you can't say that people that only using light attacks, don't use buffs and so on are doing their best in a vet dungeon.

It's a teamwork in a dungeon, you don't use gear because it looks cool, you don't use skills that are fun and sparkly just because they are visually satisfying.

If you gimp yourself you are not doing your best.

I can join a relay race, my teammate is waiting for me 100 meters away so I can deliver the stick to him so he can start running. My teammate and my opponents are wearing running outfits, while I wear a knights armour that weighs 50 kilos, I will do my best to run fast but it just won't work, my team looses because of me. Shall I say "I did my best" and await acceptance? Or face the reality it was my fault I could have adapted and try to be competitive?

Do what you want when others don't depend on you, but when you take up others time because you refuse to adapt or wanting to learn. You have nothing to do in teamwork content. Period.

Gilvoth

not everyone can be awesome and perfect. we are just doing best we can with what we have, playing a game we paid money for relaxation and stress relief, but how can we have that when others are making play time horrible because we are not playing the way They want us to play?

Gilvoth

we dont play the way you like, so in return we get bashed for it in zone chat, in the forums, and all other forms of social media we go to. when all we wanted from the start was a place to play and have fun with people like eso is advertised for.

Gulnagel

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

not everyone can be awesome and perfect. we are just doing best we can with what we have, playing a game we paid money for relaxation and stress relief, but how can we have that when others are making play time horrible because we are not playing the way They want us to play?

It's been stated several times in this thread by others and myself. No one joins a dungeon to waste time wiping 30 minutes to the first boss in a veteran dungeon. If you have any experience in the dungeonfinder you will know this, when the DPS is low:

A. Tank leaves imideatly or healer leaves imideatly.
B. A votekick is up trying to kick one of the dpses or both.
C. After kick, groups keep filling up with CP 10 players queing as all roles, and it is kick after kick until all decides to quit.

If it's just mechanics but the dps is good, people tend to explain and give it a couple of tries.

Gulnagel

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

we dont play the way you like, so in return we get bashed for it in zone chat, in the forums, and all other forms of social media we go to. when all we wanted from the start was a place to play and have fun with people like eso is advertised for.

I don't think you are as bad as you say. People who actually joins this forum tend to be people who like discussing the game, collect information and staying up to date.

If you read the forums and it's treads you will learn a lot as a player even if that wasn't the intention from the start. Hence I think the people on the forum, discussing ESO probably are above average due to knowledge of the game and it's mechanics.

tplink3r1

People keep saying "stop complaining just because you can't speed run", when in reality we are referring to the people who wear Heavy Armor and S/B as magicka DPS and die trying to kill skeevers in wayrest sewers.

Gulnagel

tplink3r1 wrote: »

People keep saying "stop complaining just because you can't speed run", when in reality we are referring to the people who wear Heavy Armor and S/B as magicka DPS and die trying to kill skeevers in wayrest sewers.

Don't you know it's the healers fault? " I wear heavyarmor and a shield as a dps, my healer still can't keep me up with my 10 k health in vRoM, what a noob"

Gulnagel

tplink3r1 wrote: »

People keep saying "stop complaining just because you can't speed run", when in reality we are referring to the people who wear Heavy Armor and S/B as magicka DPS and die trying to kill skeevers in wayrest sewers.

Your comment cracked me up, it really isn't more to it than what you just said. You nailed it perfectly.

SoLooney

hardcore mmo players dont really play eso cause zos keeps nerfing everyone and trying to increase the floor. sustain nerfs makes high level gameplay boring af too

you have a lot of players who like to roleplay or the play how you want mentality and it just frustrates people in group content cause they dont pull their own weight. i understand your struggle op

ShimmerDoll

I play several other games and have a lot of stuff i do before i even get to play this game now and then and a lot of the dungeons in this game are forgettable for me for some reason. Of course I want to do well but people freak out if you forget one little thing. Its not an easy pick up and play game like anything else I'm playing for me personally. It feels like after 2 weeks go by I just forget about this game. Mechanics are sometimes clunky too after playing a lot of more polished games.

Kanar

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

DPS always seems to get the blame, but in the harder dungeons (dlc) I usually find it's the healers and tanks holding the pug back. Death-prone DPS seems to get vetted out pretty quick in those dungeons but a mediocre tank or healer can skate by until the end boss. Mostly the dungeon failure is due to too many deaths from mechanics cause those roles don't really need to learn mechanics like a DPS does. Healers thinking they can heal through boss mechanics, tanks standing in red thinking they can block through it, boss not taunted causing DPS to be one shot; these types of things cause dungeon failures.
Only takes one bad player to ruin a dlc dungeon run. If I spend half my time rezzing the healer or other DPS, then it's gonna be a long, tough fight.

When the DPS are good enough, there are no mechanics.

A typical clueless post. Sounds like you just don't have experience in dlc dungeons. How do you out DPS planar inhibitor, vRoM, vBF, vFH with a tank/healer/DD/DD?

Planar would require at least one of tank or healer going DD (preferably both), vBF will always require a tank capable of taking 3 anvil crackers, there will always be shouts and chaos in vFH. vRoM will always requires coordination for statues.

Furthermore, good DPS requires at least one of good tanking or healing. If I have to slot vigor to make up for bad healing, or dodge a bunch cause bosses are attacking me then damage goes down.

Drummerx04

Kanar wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

DPS always seems to get the blame, but in the harder dungeons (dlc) I usually find it's the healers and tanks holding the pug back. Death-prone DPS seems to get vetted out pretty quick in those dungeons but a mediocre tank or healer can skate by until the end boss. Mostly the dungeon failure is due to too many deaths from mechanics cause those roles don't really need to learn mechanics like a DPS does. Healers thinking they can heal through boss mechanics, tanks standing in red thinking they can block through it, boss not taunted causing DPS to be one shot; these types of things cause dungeon failures.
Only takes one bad player to ruin a dlc dungeon run. If I spend half my time rezzing the healer or other DPS, then it's gonna be a long, tough fight.

When the DPS are good enough, there are no mechanics.

A typical clueless post. Sounds like you just don't have experience in dlc dungeons. How do you out DPS planar inhibitor, vRoM, vBF, vFH with a tank/healer/DD/DD?

Planar would require at least one of tank or healer going DD (preferably both), vBF will always require a tank capable of taking 3 anvil crackers, there will always be shouts and chaos in vFH. vRoM will always requires coordination for statues.

Furthermore, good DPS requires at least one of good tanking or healing. If I have to slot vigor to make up for bad healing, or dodge a bunch cause bosses are attacking me then damage goes down.

Obviously, his comment was partially a joke, but even in conventional 2DD/1T/1H groups, you can dps past quite a few boss mechanics without really having them activate.

2 players at ~35k dps each can burn Planar inhibitor before blue phase (tank literally just holds pinion for the whole fight), burn vRoM HM boss to skip certain add phases and render remaining add phases easily managed, you can burn Dranos (vCoS) in such a way that the invulnerability execute phase of the fight is entirely skipped, and my group has even gotten close to burning down vFH HM before he can even shield (1%).

I'm not going to say it's "easy" in the conventional sense, but it's certainly doable.

Jaimeh

I had only played early 90s Nintendo titles before ESO, and to me it’s not an easy or straightforward game at all. Two years onward, I’m still learning a lot (and also still dying a lot ) It doesn’t help that the game doesn’t really explain things – the tutorial says how to charge a heavy attack, block, interrupt, etc., but it’s so early on, that it doesn’t really register. Then there are so many class skills, weapon skills, and guild skills, and it can all get a bit overwhelming. I remember when I made my first character and someone offered to craft me an armour, and asked me what weight I wanted: light, medium, or heavy; I figured I better ask for light because it might be less clunky and maybe I could move faster. So my first toon, a DK with a sword, was in all light armour, and had attribute points allocated equally in stamina, health and magicka, because having a bit of everything it seemed like the sensible thing to do I have so many hilarious and embarrassing stories, and I imagine it must be like that for other people who haven’t played another game before, or who are only casual gamers. I went into my first dungeon at CP300+ and I was absolutely clueless, constantly caught in a ‘what is happening!?’ panic mode, so having all the above in mind, I can absolutely believe that a lot of players are not good, even with high CPs. Furthermore, becoming good is not only dependent on individual aptitude, but also on having a lot of time to search information, learn one’s class, reading/watching tutorials (peruse @Alcast's site - bless him for teaching me that there is such a thing as a rotation ). ESO is vast and complex, with each content having its unique mechanics, and alas, not everybody comes from an RPG background, or indeed has that time in their hands available. A dungeon run going bad is definitely frustrating, OP, but in PUGs players will have all sorts of competencies, and no matter what anyone says, vWGT is a hard dungeon - it requires a lot of team cooperation. So either lower your expectations, and exercise patience, or run exclusively with friends who know their stuff.

Bonus embarrassing story: I didn’t know how shields were used because I couldn’t make the connection between swords, shields, main hand weapons and off-hand weapons, and didn't even know what that distinction stood for. And I badly wanted to use a shield, but whenever I equipped one, I couldn’t do anything with it, and I would keep sheathing and unsheathing it, trying to figure out how to use the bloody thing, to no avail. Then (months later - which is the hilarious part of this story) I timidly equipped a sword on the main hand and a shield on the off hand, and it was like a bright light, choir singing, ‘aha!’ type of moment. I can imagine how nobody would want me in WGT

Sithmaga

I read some replies.

Yes. The game is hard. You learn as you go. You learn from other people

You can’tt expect people to be on the same level you are.

We all play different and we all have different needs on our game play.

Example.

I have a character base of my Paladins I used to play.

I want A character who want to no to kill. Now imagine playing that but kill what you have too. Have the lowest kill count

My Paladin goal is not die much.

If I wanted to make things more interesting I can have my champion character run around naked to make it difficult

.So don’t you go judging people

Isangrim

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

DPS always seems to get the blame, but in the harder dungeons (dlc) I usually find it's the healers and tanks holding the pug back. Death-prone DPS seems to get vetted out pretty quick in those dungeons but a mediocre tank or healer can skate by until the end boss. Mostly the dungeon failure is due to too many deaths from mechanics cause those roles don't really need to learn mechanics like a DPS does. Healers thinking they can heal through boss mechanics, tanks standing in red thinking they can block through it, boss not taunted causing DPS to be one shot; these types of things cause dungeon failures.
Only takes one bad player to ruin a dlc dungeon run. If I spend half my time rezzing the healer or other DPS, then it's gonna be a long, tough fight.

When the DPS are good enough, there are no mechanics.

A typical clueless post. Sounds like you just don't have experience in dlc dungeons. How do you out DPS planar inhibitor, vRoM, vBF, vFH with a tank/healer/DD/DD?

Planar would require at least one of tank or healer going DD (preferably both), vBF will always require a tank capable of taking 3 anvil crackers, there will always be shouts and chaos in vFH. vRoM will always requires coordination for statues.

Furthermore, good DPS requires at least one of good tanking or healing. If I have to slot vigor to make up for bad healing, or dodge a bunch cause bosses are attacking me then damage goes down.

Obviously, his comment was partially a joke, but even in conventional 2DD/1T/1H groups, you can dps past quite a few boss mechanics without really having them activate.

2 players at ~35k dps each can burn Planar inhibitor before blue phase (tank literally just holds pinion for the whole fight), burn vRoM HM boss to skip certain add phases and render remaining add phases easily managed, you can burn Dranos (vCoS) in such a way that the invulnerability execute phase of the fight is entirely skipped, and my group has even gotten close to burning down vFH HM before he can even shield (1%).

I'm not going to say it's "easy" in the conventional sense, but it's certainly doable.

I always love WGT pledge days.

Get instapops in the queue as a tank, everyone is so relieved when they see a CP600 pop into their dungeon expecting an experienced players and an easy mode run. I get my group smoothly through the first two bosses, but oh boy when we hit the planar inhibitor it's time for the fun to begin. I'll deliberately avoid doing the portals and the other members of my party - they can't do anything about it. It's impossible to dps the fat boys that spawn out of the portals and everyone dies in all-consuming fire.

After this first wipe, the accusations begin. Who doesn't know the mechanics? Of course I say I know the mechanics and who's going to doubt me? I'm CP600. Nobody knows who didn't do the portals, the game doesn't tell you, and people are so unwilling to kick the tank because the queue for replacing one is so long. And as we wipe over and over again, the finger pointing gets worse and worse. The healer blames the dps, the dps blames the healer, the racial and autistic slurs start flying and here come the vote kicks. Meanwhile I'm just laughing my ass off because no-one knows it's me. It's me that's stopping them from progressing.

I thank the devs every day that they came up with a dungeon where one single player can break up a group.

Every WGT pledge day after dinner I do this for 3 hours before going to bed. I must leave at least 30 players per session raging behind their keyboards and uninstalling the game.

I know you all are going to say I lead a very sad existence, but hey don't blame me: I'm a millennial, I've never known another life. Stuck in my *** internship job getting shouted at by my boss all day. Stuck in my squalid flat because housing prices are out of control. Stuck in a country that has no future because it's led by Trump. If it weren't for ESO I'd have gone insane a long time ago. WGT is the one place where I can have power over other people.

Oh WGT, I love you.

Drummerx04

Isangrim wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

DPS always seems to get the blame, but in the harder dungeons (dlc) I usually find it's the healers and tanks holding the pug back. Death-prone DPS seems to get vetted out pretty quick in those dungeons but a mediocre tank or healer can skate by until the end boss. Mostly the dungeon failure is due to too many deaths from mechanics cause those roles don't really need to learn mechanics like a DPS does. Healers thinking they can heal through boss mechanics, tanks standing in red thinking they can block through it, boss not taunted causing DPS to be one shot; these types of things cause dungeon failures.
Only takes one bad player to ruin a dlc dungeon run. If I spend half my time rezzing the healer or other DPS, then it's gonna be a long, tough fight.

When the DPS are good enough, there are no mechanics.

A typical clueless post. Sounds like you just don't have experience in dlc dungeons. How do you out DPS planar inhibitor, vRoM, vBF, vFH with a tank/healer/DD/DD?

Planar would require at least one of tank or healer going DD (preferably both), vBF will always require a tank capable of taking 3 anvil crackers, there will always be shouts and chaos in vFH. vRoM will always requires coordination for statues.

Furthermore, good DPS requires at least one of good tanking or healing. If I have to slot vigor to make up for bad healing, or dodge a bunch cause bosses are attacking me then damage goes down.

Obviously, his comment was partially a joke, but even in conventional 2DD/1T/1H groups, you can dps past quite a few boss mechanics without really having them activate.

2 players at ~35k dps each can burn Planar inhibitor before blue phase (tank literally just holds pinion for the whole fight), burn vRoM HM boss to skip certain add phases and render remaining add phases easily managed, you can burn Dranos (vCoS) in such a way that the invulnerability execute phase of the fight is entirely skipped, and my group has even gotten close to burning down vFH HM before he can even shield (1%).

I'm not going to say it's "easy" in the conventional sense, but it's certainly doable.

I always love WGT pledge days.

Get instapops in the queue as a tank, everyone is so relieved when they see a CP600 pop into their dungeon expecting an experienced players and an easy mode run. I get my group smoothly through the first two bosses, but oh boy when we hit the planar inhibitor it's time for the fun to begin. I'll deliberately avoid doing the portals and the other members of my party - they can't do anything about it. It's impossible to dps the fat boys that spawn out of the portals and everyone dies in all-consuming fire.

After this first wipe, the accusations begin. Who doesn't know the mechanics? Of course I say I know the mechanics and who's going to doubt me? I'm CP600. Nobody knows who didn't do the portals, the game doesn't tell you, and people are so unwilling to kick the tank because the queue for replacing one is so long. And as we wipe over and over again, the finger pointing gets worse and worse. The healer blames the dps, the dps blames the healer, the racial and autistic slurs start flying and here come the vote kicks. Meanwhile I'm just laughing my ass off because no-one knows it's me. It's me that's stopping them from progressing.

I thank the devs every day that they came up with a dungeon where one single player can break up a group.

Every WGT pledge day after dinner I do this for 3 hours before going to bed. I must leave at least 30 players per session raging behind their keyboards and uninstalling the game.

I know you all are going to say I lead a very sad existence, but hey don't blame me: I'm a millennial, I've never known another life. Stuck in my *** internship job getting shouted at by my boss all day. Stuck in my squalid flat because housing prices are out of control. Stuck in a country that has no future because it's led by Trump. If it weren't for ESO I'd have gone insane a long time ago. WGT is the one place where I can have power over other people.

Oh WGT, I love you.

Actually, two players get portal vision in the PI fight now, so if the group is failing it actually is their fault.

Cage_Lizardman

I tried to pug vWGT today, and it's indeed possible to get at least two randoms who don't know what "close portals" means.

JackWest92

Ertthewolf wrote: »

It's a video game.....Can you be good at it? Sure. But I'd rather practice my guitar a few hours to keep perfecting that. Or maybe go out with my wife for dinner and talk about real life things. I think this is most people's situation.

Also, ESO has many build options and play styles. Let em play as they want....Being overly competitive at something that burns up your time a few hours a night shouldn't be the major goal. The reason. It literally means nothing to be on a leaderboard and earn in game pixels that last until the game is old and something else comes out.

My two cents....

Thats fine as long as they dont queue for stuff they arent qualified for. I mean once i went for daily vet pledge on my healer, darkshade caverns 2, and i left even before the first boss because damage was terrible and we would never kill the boss with the shield. Both DDs were over 700 cp(mag sorc and stamblade) and the two combined were doing half the dps my 300 stam sorc can do in that scenario. If you want to play 'the way you want' stick to solo content. Vet group content requires being above certain minimum

Feanor

Isangrim wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

DPS always seems to get the blame, but in the harder dungeons (dlc) I usually find it's the healers and tanks holding the pug back. Death-prone DPS seems to get vetted out pretty quick in those dungeons but a mediocre tank or healer can skate by until the end boss. Mostly the dungeon failure is due to too many deaths from mechanics cause those roles don't really need to learn mechanics like a DPS does. Healers thinking they can heal through boss mechanics, tanks standing in red thinking they can block through it, boss not taunted causing DPS to be one shot; these types of things cause dungeon failures.
Only takes one bad player to ruin a dlc dungeon run. If I spend half my time rezzing the healer or other DPS, then it's gonna be a long, tough fight.

When the DPS are good enough, there are no mechanics.

A typical clueless post. Sounds like you just don't have experience in dlc dungeons. How do you out DPS planar inhibitor, vRoM, vBF, vFH with a tank/healer/DD/DD?

Planar would require at least one of tank or healer going DD (preferably both), vBF will always require a tank capable of taking 3 anvil crackers, there will always be shouts and chaos in vFH. vRoM will always requires coordination for statues.

Furthermore, good DPS requires at least one of good tanking or healing. If I have to slot vigor to make up for bad healing, or dodge a bunch cause bosses are attacking me then damage goes down.

Obviously, his comment was partially a joke, but even in conventional 2DD/1T/1H groups, you can dps past quite a few boss mechanics without really having them activate.

2 players at ~35k dps each can burn Planar inhibitor before blue phase (tank literally just holds pinion for the whole fight), burn vRoM HM boss to skip certain add phases and render remaining add phases easily managed, you can burn Dranos (vCoS) in such a way that the invulnerability execute phase of the fight is entirely skipped, and my group has even gotten close to burning down vFH HM before he can even shield (1%).

I'm not going to say it's "easy" in the conventional sense, but it's certainly doable.

I always love WGT pledge days.

Get instapops in the queue as a tank, everyone is so relieved when they see a CP600 pop into their dungeon expecting an experienced players and an easy mode run. I get my group smoothly through the first two bosses, but oh boy when we hit the planar inhibitor it's time for the fun to begin. I'll deliberately avoid doing the portals and the other members of my party - they can't do anything about it. It's impossible to dps the fat boys that spawn out of the portals and everyone dies in all-consuming fire.

After this first wipe, the accusations begin. Who doesn't know the mechanics? Of course I say I know the mechanics and who's going to doubt me? I'm CP600. Nobody knows who didn't do the portals, the game doesn't tell you, and people are so unwilling to kick the tank because the queue for replacing one is so long. And as we wipe over and over again, the finger pointing gets worse and worse. The healer blames the dps, the dps blames the healer, the racial and autistic slurs start flying and here come the vote kicks. Meanwhile I'm just laughing my ass off because no-one knows it's me. It's me that's stopping them from progressing.

I thank the devs every day that they came up with a dungeon where one single player can break up a group.

Every WGT pledge day after dinner I do this for 3 hours before going to bed. I must leave at least 30 players per session raging behind their keyboards and uninstalling the game.

I know you all are going to say I lead a very sad existence, but hey don't blame me: I'm a millennial, I've never known another life. Stuck in my *** internship job getting shouted at by my boss all day. Stuck in my squalid flat because housing prices are out of control. Stuck in a country that has no future because it's led by Trump. If it weren't for ESO I'd have gone insane a long time ago. WGT is the one place where I can have power over other people.

Oh WGT, I love you.

At least you’re good with recycling fake stories and trying to farm awesomes.

BlazingDynamo

1T took away any progressive content outside of vet trials. World bosses and such use to be challenging while questing and levelling. Now it's a push over and new players think they are gods until they hit end game.

Zos' fault really, not much you can do. That's why most avoid group finder unless you're good enough to carry the rest.

Asardes

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

1T took away any progressive content outside of vet trials. World bosses and such use to be challenging while questing and levelling. Now it's a push over and new players think they are gods until they hit end game.

Zos' fault really, not much you can do. That's why most avoid group finder unless you're good enough to carry the rest.

Isn't the opposite true? The zones were "battle leveled" after 1T and wold bosses received a significant buff to their health, damage done and mechanics, bringing them to the same level as group dungeon bosses. Of course, most are still a "push over" for properly geared, experienced player, but they will thoroughly trash a newbie and still be a challenge to a group of 4-6 less seasoned players. The DLC zone ones are even tougher.

Bobby_V_Rockit

RP’ers. Thats why. The sad sound of endless plinking on a bow on their high elf echoes through Tamriel

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Asardes wrote: »

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

1T took away any progressive content outside of vet trials. World bosses and such use to be challenging while questing and levelling. Now it's a push over and new players think they are gods until they hit end game.

Zos' fault really, not much you can do. That's why most avoid group finder unless you're good enough to carry the rest.

Isn't the opposite true? The zones were "battle leveled" after 1T and wold bosses received a significant buff to their health, damage done and mechanics, bringing them to the same level as group dungeon bosses. Of course, most are still a "push over" for properly geared, experienced player, but they will thoroughly trash a newbie and still be a challenge to a group of 4-6 less seasoned players. The DLC zone ones are even tougher.

He said "progressive content", as in the beginning of the game is easier then the later stuff, that is not how this game works now, you get weaker as you level if you don't keep up with armor and such, all the mobs in the game are the same, in health and armor. Do you see the difference?

pepsi104104

Asardes wrote: »

Anything more than 15-20 minutes vWGT HM is a slow run IMO.

I would be very interested to see you run vWGT HM in less than 15min given that anything above this is "slow".

Asardes

pepsi104104 wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Anything more than 15-20 minutes vWGT HM is a slow run IMO.

I would be very interested to see you run vWGT HM in less than 15min given that anything above this is "slow".

Fastest was 12-13 minutes, 3 DD + tank, and I changed to DD as well as Inhibitor. Group DPS was 140K+ on that boss and it went pop before it even spawned any adds portal. TBH you don't need a dedicated healer in 4 man content. And HM really makes on difference in vWGT. I don't even remember if I ever did non-HM there. If you drop ults on the boss right after the shield phase you can burn it in less than 1 minute either way. All pledges that day took 42 minutes including dungeon transfer so every one of them including vWGT took less than 15 minutes.

Rhinala

I don't think that modern MMO zones teach the player anything about group content, GW2 and ESO have the same issues due to a similar group content design (one that i like), the player need to take the extra step to learn, sometimes it take time and sometimes a player need to hear constructive criticism and not wow your bad you do 5k dps while i do 45k dps.
A good dungeon for me is how much fun i have to play with the team, if they are nice i will play with them again even if i will have to carry them, i think that a good explanation can do wonders to a team. I hate speed runs i find them boring.

Gulnagel

Rhinala wrote: »

I don't think that modern MMO zones teach the player anything about group content, GW2 and ESO have the same issues due to a similar group content design (one that i like), the player need to take the extra step to learn, sometimes it take time and sometimes a player need to hear constructive criticism and not wow your bad you do 5k dps while i do 45k dps.
A good dungeon for me is how much fun i have to play with the team, if they are nice i will play with them again even if i will have to carry them, i think that a good explanation can do wonders to a team. I hate speed runs i find them boring.

This is thread is not focused on if you can do speedruns or do it in 1 hour. The point of this thread is when you can't complete dungeons at all, no mather if you spend 15 minutes or 4 hours, if the dps are lacking you aint going nowhere.

More often than not low dps hold groups back, it used to be the mechanics that did that, but not in this game.

It's the play as you want my special little snowflake mentality that ruins it. They should ad: "play as you want - as long as you want to be inferior and not be able to clear content outside of solo play"

Dapper Dinosaur

I can agree with the OP that we need a statistics rundown of every player's contributions after dungeons, for the sake of both self-analysis and group-strengthening within guilds.

For the longest time (long after I reached Vet-16 before veteran rank removal), I coasted through most of the game's content playing a Magicka Nightblade DPS running almost exclusively sap skills on my main bar (siphoning attacks, funnel health, and sap essence, with debilitate sometimes thrown in when a melee enemy is giving me/my group trouble) and pretty much never bar-swapping because I didn't understand the true value of it and kept my speed-stealthing setup there. This was at least a full year before combat text was added, and I am on console so I didn't have access to parsing or even target skeletons. I had no way of knowing outside of extremely vague guesswork just how low my DPS was compared to other DPS builds. All I knew was that sorcerers were melting everything much faster than I was, and I figured it was due to me being a magicka nightblade and sorcerers were just that overpowered. I was fine with it being this way because I thought I was doing just fine since I was almost always the last one standing when my groups wiped in dungeons/trials, making myself look like some kind of hero.

Once the target skeletons were added and I got one for my house, I started doing DPS tests, and (you guessed it) I saw hugely disappointing numbers and realized just how pathetic my DPS was. I started looking at AoE DoTs and single-target DoTs to put on my backbar so I could get a proper rotation going, and saw my numbers start to rise.

If I had access to a statistics chart, I could have looked at my scores long before the target skeletons were added and fixed my build and playstyle months earlier. The fact there were exactly zero tools (for console players, pc has parsing and addons) for us to better ourselves is disgusting.

Gulnagel

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

I can agree with the OP that we need a statistics rundown of every player's contributions after dungeons, for the sake of both self-analysis and group-strengthening within guilds.

For the longest time (long after I reached Vet-16 before veteran rank removal), I coasted through most of the game's content playing a Magicka Nightblade DPS running almost exclusively sap skills on my main bar (siphoning attacks, funnel health, and sap essence, with debilitate sometimes thrown in when a melee enemy is giving me/my group trouble) and pretty much never bar-swapping because I didn't understand the true value of it and kept my speed-stealthing setup there. This was at least a full year before combat text was added, and I am on console so I didn't have access to parsing or even target skeletons. I had no way of knowing outside of extremely vague guesswork just how low my DPS was compared to other DPS builds. All I knew was that sorcerers were melting everything much faster than I was, and I figured it was due to me being a magicka nightblade and sorcerers were just that overpowered. I was fine with it being this way because I thought I was doing just fine since I was almost always the last one standing when my groups wiped in dungeons/trials, making myself look like some kind of hero.

Once the target skeletons were added and I got one for my house, I started doing DPS tests, and (you guessed it) I saw hugely disappointing numbers and realized just how pathetic my DPS was. I started looking at AoE DoTs and single-target DoTs to put on my backbar so I could get a proper rotation going, and saw my numbers start to rise.

If I had access to a statistics chart, I could have looked at my scores long before the target skeletons were added and fixed my build and playstyle months earlier. The fact there were exactly zero tools (for console players, pc has parsing and addons) for us to better ourselves is disgusting.

I agree 100%.