Why are people so bad at the game?

Gulnagel

I main a healer and farmed WGT a lot, even beaten it in hardmode veteran with random groups, but to get a group like that is equal to winning the lottery.

Often in dungeons it's a tedious and time-consuming battle, sometimes it feels like the dps heals the enemies, the glorious last boss in direfrost keep for instance that heals more than the dps do damage more often than not. And these are high CP players.

When I get a good dps group I still get surprised. In other games it wasn't like this , when I got a bad dps group it was rare. In eso it's reversed, why is it like this?

Is it because the "play as you want" mentality which screws over builds?

Is it the "I'm queing as a tank for veteran dungeons, but I'm an dps"

Is it because people don't know about rotation, skills that complement eatchother.

Bottom line is, how fun can it be, being way over CP 300 and pull 5-15 K dps?

We need a sheet after eatch dungeon or trial run that show us dps and healing done, maybe then people actually see how bad they are and try to compensate. If 1 dps does 10 % of all damage and the other do 90 %. It will hopefully be a wakeup call to get better? Like K/D makes people play at their best in FPS games, and research weapons and kits to be competitive.

Why is it like this?

TequilaFire

Because that is normal in games and life.
Not all can live up to your standards.

NewBlacksmurf

Its that you have the wrong mentality...... you want/assume everyone else is bad if they don't desire to speed run through it, have the min/max or best and top DPS or rotation as well as flawless runs.

Good/Bad shouldn't be defined in this way.
If this is what you seek and desire, find like minded players who also share that same interest and play amongst one another.

The reality is most people are playing the game for entertainment and fun on varying degrees or definitions. I'd guess more than less aren't focused on what you feel is defined as good. Also, for many, its not a competition.

Autumnhart

Because they are not given enough information and do not know to go find it.

Gulnagel

TequilaFire wrote: »

Because that is normal in games and life.
Not all can live up to your standards.

Well it's not my standard, it's the developers who set a standard wich people fail to live up to because of poor explanation of classes, skills and mechanics.

Turelus

Autumnhart wrote: »

Because they are not given enough information and do not know to go find it.

This. The game itself doesn't teach you anything about advanced mechanics, meta or builds.

If you want players to be better, start passing out information, form a training guild, explain dungeon mechanics as you go etc.
Help the community improve rather than looking down on people who don't meet your standards.

Ertthewolf

It's a video game.....Can you be good at it? Sure. But I'd rather practice my guitar a few hours to keep perfecting that. Or maybe go out with my wife for dinner and talk about real life things. I think this is most people's situation.

Also, ESO has many build options and play styles. Let em play as they want....Being overly competitive at something that burns up your time a few hours a night shouldn't be the major goal. The reason. It literally means nothing to be on a leaderboard and earn in game pixels that last until the game is old and something else comes out.

My two cents....

FakeFox

I think the "problem" is that ESO does not promote performance focused gameplay and competition, resulting in a huge portion of the player-base not being interested in it or not even being aware. There are barely any guidelines, representative leaderboards and other measurements of performance in the game compared to other MMOs. I mean you can't even see others peoples DPS, skills or gear without them posting it. There is no way for new players to become good, without watching guides on other platforms, nothing tells them they are bad and should learn to weave and if they look at good players in game they can't see what they are doing either.

Something like a endcard aftrer a dungeon would be a good idea I think, however there is also a need for more tutorials on advanced mechanics in the game. Knowing you are bad is one thing, knowing how to change it another.

Tandor

It's not so much that some people are so bad, it's that some people think they're so good.

SFDB

Gulnagel wrote: »

We need a sheet after eatch dungeon or trial run that show us dps and healing done, maybe then people actually see how bad they are and try to compensate.

"Hurrah! It was really hard, but we managed to defeat the boss and complete the dungeon! I love this game! Go team!"

"Now let me show you the stats that prove how bad you are!"

"What?"

"According to these numbers, you fall somewhere between a small child and a tree branch tapping the keyboard when the wind blows."

"Oh..."

"I'm sending a letter to ZoS to remove your achievement, you don't deserve it."

"Um... tftg."

Gulnagel

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Its that you have the wrong mentality...... you want/assume everyone else is bad if they don't desire to speed run through it, have the min/max or best and top DPS or rotation as well as flawless runs.

Good/Bad shouldn't be defined in this way.
If this is what you seek and desire, find like minded players who also share that same interest and play amongst one another.

The reality is most people are playing the game for entertainment and fun on varying degrees or definitions. I'd guess more than less aren't focused on what you feel is defined as good. Also, for many, its not a competition.

I did not mention speedruns, it is okey for me to be in a dungeon for a long time, if the group actually follow mechanics, priorities targets and make a dent in bosses health.

Not getting oneshotted standing in red, avoiding to use buffs like food, run veteran content with 11 k health.

Sometimes it feels like people play in first person view standing in all stupid like it was my healing spring.

Thogard

Because it’s a hard game.

When you first start playing basketball, you will watch the ball as you dribble it. Only when you become good enough to dribble the ball without looking at it can you start looking up to see where the defenders and your team mates are. Then once you’ve been looking up for a while you’ll begin to be able to anticipate where your opponents and team mates will be.

ESO is the same. Many players are so new to the game that they never stop looking at their own character (or their skill bar). Only when they can instinctively play their character and know how it’ll respond can they spend their time looking at their team mates and opponents.

Megabear

Gulnagel wrote: »

I main a healer and farmed WGT a lot, even beaten it in hardmode veteran with random groups, but to get a group like that is equal to winning the lottery.

Often in dungeons it's a tedious and time-consuming battle, sometimes it feels like the dps heals the enemies, the glorious last boss in direfrost keep for instance that heals more than the dps do damage more often than not. And these are high CP players.

When I get a good dps group I still get surprised. In other games it wasn't like this , when I got a bad dps group it was rare. In eso it's reversed, why is it like this?

Is it because the "play as you want" mentality which screws over builds?

Is it the "I'm queing as a tank for veteran dungeons, but I'm an dps"

Is it because people don't know about rotation, skills that complement eatchother.

Bottom line is, how fun can it be, being way over CP 300 and pull 5-15 K dps?

We need a sheet after eatch dungeon or trial run that show us dps and healing done, maybe then people actually see how bad they are and try to compensate. If 1 dps does 10 % of all damage and the other do 90 %. It will hopefully be a wakeup call to get better? Like K/D makes people play at their best in FPS games, and research weapons and kits to be competitive.

Why is it like this?

For the same reason why you are bad at other things.

SirAndy

Gulnagel wrote: »

Bottom line is, how fun can it be, being way over CP 300 and pull 5-15 K dps?

Because your idea of "fun" is different from other people's idea of "fun" ...

Gulnagel

Thogard wrote: »

Because it’s a hard game.

When you first start playing basketball, you will watch the ball as you dribble it. Only when you become good enough to dribble the ball without looking at it can you start looking up to see where the defenders and your team mates are. Then once you’ve been looking up for a while you’ll begin to be able to anticipate where your opponents and team mates will be.

ESO is the same. Many players are so new to the game that they never stop looking at their own character (or their skill bar). Only when they can instinctively play their character and know how it’ll respond can they spend their time looking at their team mates and opponents.

Yes but if you are over CP 300 it's not new anymore, takes time and grinding. I understand low CP players but I'm talking about the range 300 and up.

kargen27

FakeFox wrote: »

I think the "problem" is that ESO does not promote performance focused gameplay and competition, resulting in a huge portion of the player-base not being interested in it or not even being aware. There are barely any guidelines, representative leaderboards and other measurements of performance in the game compared to other MMOs. I mean you can't even see others peoples DPS, skills or gear without them posting it. There is no way for new players to become good, without watching guides on other platforms, nothing tells them they are bad and should learn to weave and if they look at good players in game they can't see what they are doing either.

Something like a endcard aftrer a dungeon would be a good idea I think, however there is also a need for more tutorials on advanced mechanics in the game. Knowing you are bad is one thing, knowing how to change it another.

I think one of the main attractions is that ESO does not promote performance focused game play. The majority of players outside of PvP have little to no interest in competing with other players. They are simply having fun playing a game.

There is a multitude of ways for players to get better if they desire to do so. That they are not forced into it is one of the best aspects of this game.

zyk

IMO, it's a combination of factors. I think the big reason is that ESO isn't popular among online gaming enthusiasts. I think it failed to attract the core/hardcore MMO audience. Skyrim or other single player TES games are probably what most players have in common.

But at the same time, it was originally designed for the core/hardcore MMO audience so the mechanics and systems have a lot of depth to them. When you consider all of the systems together, it's a very daunting game for a casual player to get a handle on.

Further, its systems are not intuitive and are poorly documented by ZOS. Googling is challenging because there have been so many changes. To compensate, ZOS made most PVE painfully easy so it's almost impossible to fail at until vet Dungeons and Trials which is a wall most players splat into.

The irony is that while new players complete quest content, they probably think they're very good at ESO because they're easily handling opponents. In reality, most players probably hit CP160-690 without actually knowing how the systems work or how to properly build and play a character. And as players from highly intuitive--and let's face it, easy--single player games, they don't want that level of sophistication.

A thing to remember is that Skyrim changed a lot. TES was a famous series, sure, but Skyrim was its first mainstream blockbuster. ESO began development before that happened. If development on ESO had begun after Skyrim's success, it would probably be a completely different game with simpler, more intuitive systems.

Gulnagel

SirAndy wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

Bottom line is, how fun can it be, being way over CP 300 and pull 5-15 K dps?

Because your idea of "fun" is different from other people's idea of "fun" ...

Well I'm not good at football, if I swap out your goalkeeper in your favourite team and take his spot I might have a blast, but I promise you the fans won't feel the same way when I let in more goals than Brazil vs Germany.

Therefore I like to believe that the majority of people's perception of fun in a game like eso or any other mmos is to be able to clear content, get better gear and clear harder content the, build your character.

Yes some people are in it for the story but then stay there, don't go in to veteran RoM with 10 k health doing lightattacks and ruin the majority of players "fun"

s7732425ub17_ESO

Because ZOS has removed all difficult things and made them optional. Questing does nothing to prepare you for endgame. If the main quest had Maelstrom Arena style bosses, players might actually get better at this game while leveling up.

NewBlacksmurf

Gulnagel wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Its that you have the wrong mentality...... you want/assume everyone else is bad if they don't desire to speed run through it, have the min/max or best and top DPS or rotation as well as flawless runs.

Good/Bad shouldn't be defined in this way.
If this is what you seek and desire, find like minded players who also share that same interest and play amongst one another.

The reality is most people are playing the game for entertainment and fun on varying degrees or definitions. I'd guess more than less aren't focused on what you feel is defined as good. Also, for many, its not a competition.

I did not mention speedruns, it is okey for me to be in a dungeon for a long time, if the group actually follow mechanics, priorities targets and make a dent in bosses health.

Not getting oneshotted standing in red, avoiding to use buffs like food, run veteran content with 11 k health.

Sometimes it feels like people play in first person view standing in all stupid like it was my healing spring.

Why does any of that frustrate you tho?
It doesn't seem you're identifying they are blaming you or kicking you correct?

FakeFox

Thogard wrote: »

Because it’s a hard game.

When you first start playing basketball, you will watch the ball as you dribble it. Only when you become good enough to dribble the ball without looking at it can you start looking up to see where the defenders and your team mates are. Then once you’ve been looking up for a while you’ll begin to be able to anticipate where your opponents and team mates will be.

ESO is the same. Many players are so new to the game that they never stop looking at their own character (or their skill bar). Only when they can instinctively play their character and know how it’ll respond can they spend their time looking at their team mates and opponents.

I would rather say because it's a too easy game. What I mean is that the questing stuff and normal dungeons are so ridiculously easy that you never even think about creating a good build. And then once they try to play veteran content those people fall flat on their face as the increase in difficulty is so hard. My main is a healer and I do all the questing in SPC/Mending with just Jabs on my bar and still everything is dead in two or three hits. If I would be a new player this would feel like I'm doing a lot of damage so it never comes to my mind that my build is actually very bad for doing DPS.

AlnilamE

Gulnagel wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Because it’s a hard game.

When you first start playing basketball, you will watch the ball as you dribble it. Only when you become good enough to dribble the ball without looking at it can you start looking up to see where the defenders and your team mates are. Then once you’ve been looking up for a while you’ll begin to be able to anticipate where your opponents and team mates will be.

ESO is the same. Many players are so new to the game that they never stop looking at their own character (or their skill bar). Only when they can instinctively play their character and know how it’ll respond can they spend their time looking at their team mates and opponents.

Yes but if you are over CP 300 it's not new anymore, takes time and grinding. I understand low CP players but I'm talking about the range 300 and up.

It just takes time. I have friends who have gotten to CP cap with just questing and running guild events and such. End game things like vet dungeons are not their cup of tea. They'll run normal dungeons and trials in a group of people that they know, though, particularly if they need to complete an achievement.

But there really is no grinding necessary to reach 300 CP if you enjoy playing the game at your own pace.

DeadlyRecluse

Besides the reasons that apply to every MMO, I personally suspect ESO has a high level of players who don't do great in group content because it pulls from a huge population of solo rpg players from a series that has (with a few exceptions) been relatively forgiving. The last installment, in particular, taught people that at max level they would be unkillable gods without really trying.

Gulnagel

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Its that you have the wrong mentality...... you want/assume everyone else is bad if they don't desire to speed run through it, have the min/max or best and top DPS or rotation as well as flawless runs.

Good/Bad shouldn't be defined in this way.
If this is what you seek and desire, find like minded players who also share that same interest and play amongst one another.

The reality is most people are playing the game for entertainment and fun on varying degrees or definitions. I'd guess more than less aren't focused on what you feel is defined as good. Also, for many, its not a competition.

I did not mention speedruns, it is okey for me to be in a dungeon for a long time, if the group actually follow mechanics, priorities targets and make a dent in bosses health.

Not getting oneshotted standing in red, avoiding to use buffs like food, run veteran content with 11 k health.

Sometimes it feels like people play in first person view standing in all stupid like it was my healing spring.

Why does any of that frustrate you tho?
It doesn't seem you're identifying they are blaming you or kicking you correct?

Because dungeons have become a kickfest, just waiting for the right dps, people initiate votes like never before, I feel bad for the dps ofcourse, not funny being kicked, only knowing your dps wont cut it and standing in que 30 min allover for nothing or repeating the process wich makes people quit.

DeathHouseInc

Gulnagel wrote: »

I main a healer and farmed WGT a lot, even beaten it in hardmode veteran with random groups, but to get a group like that is equal to winning the lottery.

Often in dungeons it's a tedious and time-consuming battle, sometimes it feels like the dps heals the enemies, the glorious last boss in direfrost keep for instance that heals more than the dps do damage more often than not. And these are high CP players.

When I get a good dps group I still get surprised. In other games it wasn't like this , when I got a bad dps group it was rare. In eso it's reversed, why is it like this?

Is it because the "play as you want" mentality which screws over builds?

Is it the "I'm queing as a tank for veteran dungeons, but I'm an dps"

Is it because people don't know about rotation, skills that complement eatchother.

Bottom line is, how fun can it be, being way over CP 300 and pull 5-15 K dps?

We need a sheet after eatch dungeon or trial run that show us dps and healing done, maybe then people actually see how bad they are and try to compensate. If 1 dps does 10 % of all damage and the other do 90 %. It will hopefully be a wakeup call to get better? Like K/D makes people play at their best in FPS games, and research weapons and kits to be competitive.

Why is it like this?

It's what happens when the majority of skills out of the very few there are in the game are garbage and the same goes with sets. People want to play with skills they like not the only ones that are effective and worth using. A lot of people don't realize that until way late.

NewBlacksmurf

Gulnagel wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Its that you have the wrong mentality...... you want/assume everyone else is bad if they don't desire to speed run through it, have the min/max or best and top DPS or rotation as well as flawless runs.

Good/Bad shouldn't be defined in this way.
If this is what you seek and desire, find like minded players who also share that same interest and play amongst one another.

The reality is most people are playing the game for entertainment and fun on varying degrees or definitions. I'd guess more than less aren't focused on what you feel is defined as good. Also, for many, its not a competition.

I did not mention speedruns, it is okey for me to be in a dungeon for a long time, if the group actually follow mechanics, priorities targets and make a dent in bosses health.

Not getting oneshotted standing in red, avoiding to use buffs like food, run veteran content with 11 k health.

Sometimes it feels like people play in first person view standing in all stupid like it was my healing spring.

Why does any of that frustrate you tho?
It doesn't seem you're identifying they are blaming you or kicking you correct?

Because dungeons have become a kickfest, just waiting for the right dps, people initiate votes like never before, I feel bad for the dps ofcourse, not funny being kicked, only knowing your dps wont cut it and standing in que 30 min allover for nothing or repeating the process wich makes people quit.

-What if I told you that people who share your point of view tend not to use the dungeon queue's?

kylewwefan

There are many pug breakers in dungeons. Planar inhibitors, flesh sculptor, Xal Nur, etc. group finder pugging sux bal sometimes. Even being in several guilds I use it. IDK why. It almost never turns out good.

AlnilamE

Gulnagel wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

Bottom line is, how fun can it be, being way over CP 300 and pull 5-15 K dps?

Because your idea of "fun" is different from other people's idea of "fun" ...

Therefore I like to believe that the majority of people's perception of fun in a game like eso or any other mmos is to be able to clear content, get better gear and clear harder content the, build your character.

Completing zones, getting achievements like Lightbringer and Master Angler, or Monster Slayer.

Also consider that some people may end up in veteran RoM entirely by accident. Maybe because they think that as CP players they need to run Vet. Or they click on Random Vet Dungeon instead of Random Normal Dungeon (which I did last week and spent a bit more time at the last boss of Banished Cells II as I would have liked, but we ended up overcoming our bad luck and the inexperience of some of the group and we beat the boss, albeit 1 daedroth short of Hard Mode due to an overeager Twilight from one of our sorcs).

Gulnagel

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Its that you have the wrong mentality...... you want/assume everyone else is bad if they don't desire to speed run through it, have the min/max or best and top DPS or rotation as well as flawless runs.

Good/Bad shouldn't be defined in this way.
If this is what you seek and desire, find like minded players who also share that same interest and play amongst one another.

The reality is most people are playing the game for entertainment and fun on varying degrees or definitions. I'd guess more than less aren't focused on what you feel is defined as good. Also, for many, its not a competition.

I did not mention speedruns, it is okey for me to be in a dungeon for a long time, if the group actually follow mechanics, priorities targets and make a dent in bosses health.

Not getting oneshotted standing in red, avoiding to use buffs like food, run veteran content with 11 k health.

Sometimes it feels like people play in first person view standing in all stupid like it was my healing spring.

Why does any of that frustrate you tho?
It doesn't seem you're identifying they are blaming you or kicking you correct?

Because dungeons have become a kickfest, just waiting for the right dps, people initiate votes like never before, I feel bad for the dps ofcourse, not funny being kicked, only knowing your dps wont cut it and standing in que 30 min allover for nothing or repeating the process wich makes people quit.

-What if I told you that people who share your point of view tend not to use the dungeon queue's?

This is true, but it is there and people use it and fail miserably at it, which leads to my question,

kylewwefan wrote: »

There are many pug breakers in dungeons. Planar inhibitors, flesh sculptor, Xal Nur, etc. group finder pugging sux bal sometimes. Even being in several guilds I use it. IDK why. It almost never turns out good.

Haha yes the feeling I'm in five guilds myself but still use it hence my tread about this subject.

kargen27

Gulnagel wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

Bottom line is, how fun can it be, being way over CP 300 and pull 5-15 K dps?

Because your idea of "fun" is different from other people's idea of "fun" ...

Well I'm not good at football, if I swap out your goalkeeper in your favourite team and take his spot I might have a blast, but I promise you the fans won't feel the same way when I let in more goals than Brazil vs Germany.

Therefore I like to believe that the majority of people's perception of fun in a game like eso or any other mmos is to be able to clear content, get better gear and clear harder content the, build your character.

Yes some people are in it for the story but then stay there, don't go in to veteran RoM with 10 k health doing lightattacks and ruin the majority of players "fun"

But in a pick-up game (pug group) nobody is expecting the goalkeeper to be great and after a few goals against the other players might even offer up a bit of advice or encouragement. A sweeper could adjust and fall back a bit more than normal to provide the goalkeeper some added support.

Kanar

DPS always seems to get the blame, but in the harder dungeons (dlc) I usually find it's the healers and tanks holding the pug back. Death-prone DPS seems to get vetted out pretty quick in those dungeons but a mediocre tank or healer can skate by until the end boss. Mostly the dungeon failure is due to too many deaths from mechanics cause those roles don't really need to learn mechanics like a DPS does. Healers thinking they can heal through boss mechanics, tanks standing in red thinking they can block through it, boss not taunted causing DPS to be one shot; these types of things cause dungeon failures.
Only takes one bad player to ruin a dlc dungeon run. If I spend half my time rezzing the healer or other DPS, then it's gonna be a long, tough fight.