Why are people so bad at the game?

idk

Considering the stronger players don't need a healer in vWGT HM I'd say the troubles OP is having is due to the experience of all 4 players in the group.

Experience comes with time and interest in improving. In most vet dungeons is just takes one decent player to carry the group though WGT does have a the Planar fight that does take a little bit more.

Rouven

Gulnagel wrote: »

Rouven wrote: »

To use your soccer analogy - you cannot simply "play" as a goalkeeper in a professional league because they .. pardon me, don't play for fun.

So, the equivalent of a random soccer-game finder does not exist in the real world because . This would be more akin to applying for a guild with like minded people that share the same goals as you.

If however there would be the equivalent out there I bet we would have the same scenario and we would see a lot of goals. If we are still talking about the goalkeeper. Otherwise it might take a while until the ball comes even remotely close.

I never stated it was in a professional league, I mearly stated it wouldn't be fun for the players or the fans of a football team, even if it is a team that plays for fun, has a couple of fans, they still wouldn't find it funny if one of their teamplayers started to score goals in your own goal giving away points to the opponents.

When you join something as a team the "I play as I want" mentality have to go, since it is a team effort it is common courtesy to actually pull your weight and not ruin it for the others.

I guess perhaps an open basketball court would be more like this - you would get kicked pretty fast if you sabotaged your own team and if you totally sucked you just won't get into the teams anymore. But there is no "you have to be this tall to enter" sign in front of the court. Of course it takes actual courage to do this in person because they might actually kick you in the end *lol.

Other games gate the dungeons with progression and gear scores etc, this simply does not exist here. I would not be surprised if some people don't care or even expect you to carry them.

If everyone would practice common courtesy in all aspects of their lives - what a wonderful world this would be. Utopia.

Gulnagel

Valera Progib wrote: »

OMG you main a healer, that must be very tough.

You are probably just too good for this game.

Pulling 15k dps is probably above average and in random dungeons is enough to complete non DLC HM vet dungeons...

Hell, I can easily do vMA flawless run with 10-15k dps

I never stated I was go

idk wrote: »

Considering the stronger players don't need a healer in vWGT HM I'd say the troubles OP is having is due to the experience of all 4 players in the group.

Experience comes with time and interest in improving. In most vet dungeons is just takes one decent player to carry the group though WGT does have a the Planar fight that does take a little bit more.

It is doable but the veteran dungeons are balanced after 2 dps 1 healer and 1 tank. If the dungeons wasn't class specific they would probably be a lot easier like dvelves.

To be able to solo content that's supposed to be cleared with 4 players is bad balancing, nothing else.

PlagueSD

Because everyone rushes to 50 grinding dolmens or doing Skyreach runs. No one knows how to actually PLAY their class. You actually have to do more than just light/heavy attack to do decent DPS.

Ohtimbar

I've been playing since launch and I'm only a mediocre player. Why? Because I don't care. I play to relax and take my mind off of work-related stress. I could git gud, but I'd rather have fun my own way.

Gargath

Some players are not obsessed about top dps and special sets. I even found a guy in my guild who is now lvl46 and still playing in random dropped armors and single non-set crafted weapon that someone did for him. When I asked him to make or offered to make a special set, he wasn't interested. Now considering such guy going into dungeon I can only imagine he gives a heck about how much dps he pulls or what others would think about his playing style. There are players and players. Must live with that.

Gulnagel

Ohtimbar wrote: »

I've been playing since launch and I'm only a mediocre player. Why? Because I don't care. I play to relax and take my mind off of work-related stress. I could git gud, but I'd rather have fun my own way.

I do the same, but I do care about teamwork if I'm playing with others. If I'm the cause of people wiping over and over I'm not having fun and they are not having fun.

chaserstorm16909

TequilaFire wrote: »

Because that is normal in games and life.
Not all can live up to your standards.

Fantastic statement!

Gulnagel

Gargath wrote: »

Some players are not obsessed about top dps and special sets. I even found a guy in my guild who is now lvl46 and still playing in random dropped armors and single non-set crafted weapon that someone did for him. When I asked him to make or offered to make a special set, he wasn't interested. Now considering such guy going into dungeon I can only imagine he gives a heck about how much dps he pulls or what others would think about his playing style. There are players and players. Must live with that.

Luckily you can kick people that ruins the game for the other players in the group ☺

s7732425ub17_ESO

Gulnagel wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

OMG you main a healer, that must be very tough.

You are probably just too good for this game.

Pulling 15k dps is probably above average and in random dungeons is enough to complete non DLC HM vet dungeons...

Hell, I can easily do vMA flawless run with 10-15k dps

I never stated I was go

idk wrote: »

Considering the stronger players don't need a healer in vWGT HM I'd say the troubles OP is having is due to the experience of all 4 players in the group.

Experience comes with time and interest in improving. In most vet dungeons is just takes one decent player to carry the group though WGT does have a the Planar fight that does take a little bit more.

It is doable but the veteran dungeons are balanced after 2 dps 1 healer and 1 tank. If the dungeons wasn't class specific they would probably be a lot easier like dvelves.

To be able to solo content that's supposed to be cleared with 4 players is bad balancing, nothing else.

Actually, you can do most dungeons without a healer. Once you've done them all hundreds of times, you can avoid most boss attacks or know when to shield up accordingly, so a healer is not strictly necessary. Nowadays, I only rely on a healer for trash pulls because that is a lot of random damage spikes.

Iselin

Orjix wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

Some people just don't care how good they are because being good and having fun don't correlate.

And they should stick to the overland if that's how they feel.

Joining a group dungeon sort of implies you're someone who does enjoy that type of thing. You should be ready for the increased demand to be good if you do.

but what about someone who really WANTS to and ENJOYS dungeons. should he have to sacrifice one form of fun (his build) to have another form or fun (the dungeon?)

You either do the dungeon right or the dungeon does you.

Anyway, It's not much of a "sacrifice." Once you have enough skill points you can train many different weapons and many different skills and use what's appropriate for what you're doing. All my stamina builds for example, have DW, 2HD, Bow and 1HD+S trained for when I want to PVP or DPS PVE or solo or do vMA...

It's only an issue when you're skill point starved because you're either low level, a grinder or both.

I use a great little add-on called SWAPS that makes switching builds dead simple.

Chrysa1is

Gulnagel wrote: »

I main a healer and farmed WGT a lot, even beaten it in hardmode veteran with random groups, but to get a group like that is equal to winning the lottery.

Often in dungeons it's a tedious and time-consuming battle, sometimes it feels like the dps heals the enemies, the glorious last boss in direfrost keep for instance that heals more than the dps do damage more often than not. And these are high CP players.

When I get a good dps group I still get surprised. In other games it wasn't like this , when I got a bad dps group it was rare. In eso it's reversed, why is it like this?

Is it because the "play as you want" mentality which screws over builds?

Is it the "I'm queing as a tank for veteran dungeons, but I'm an dps"

Is it because people don't know about rotation, skills that complement eatchother.

Bottom line is, how fun can it be, being way over CP 300 and pull 5-15 K dps?

We need a sheet after eatch dungeon or trial run that show us dps and healing done, maybe then people actually see how bad they are and try to compensate. If 1 dps does 10 % of all damage and the other do 90 %. It will hopefully be a wakeup call to get better? Like K/D makes people play at their best in FPS games, and research weapons and kits to be competitive.

Why is it like this?

I strongly dislike elitists and the fact you only want a stat sheet at the end of a dungeon just so you can gloat.

I get that if you may be going for certain achievements that require zero deaths, or completion under a certain time, in which case, you shouldn't use dungeon finder and you should assemble your own team. But has it not occurred to you that perhaps people are trying out new builds and strategies because the only way to do that would be to test it for real? Or perhaps people are hoping they get paired up with someone who knows how the mechanics work so that said person can teach them how it works? Or perhaps, people are just trying to play the game and test out awesome new armour set abilities that they've been farming for, all to simply have fun, which doesn't seem like something you would be like.

If you don't like the people you play with because ''they are so bad'', or you don't have the patience to teach others. Don't use dungeon finder and perhaps assemble your own team. If your preferable options fail, put up and shut up. Be a decent player and help others. It is not difficult.

I think a stat sheet would be a good idea mind you, would be good to have some fun and a bit of competition amongst your guild mates, (all chip in 1k and whoever does the best at the end gets everyone's 1k) and it would be so fun, but people like you are the only reason I wouldn't want a system like this implemented.

Sorry about getting passionate guys. But I can't stand elitists. I don't mind helping those who don't understand, and I have the patience to get up and do it again if we fail, because it is only trial and error. The BEST feeling is when you succeed because it gives you a sense of accomplishment and boosts group morale, and they learn afterwards. Have fun playing guys, and let the elitists be them, and you do you. Don't feel shut down because you are new.

Gulnagel

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

OMG you main a healer, that must be very tough.

You are probably just too good for this game.

Pulling 15k dps is probably above average and in random dungeons is enough to complete non DLC HM vet dungeons...

Hell, I can easily do vMA flawless run with 10-15k dps

I never stated I was go

idk wrote: »

Considering the stronger players don't need a healer in vWGT HM I'd say the troubles OP is having is due to the experience of all 4 players in the group.

Experience comes with time and interest in improving. In most vet dungeons is just takes one decent player to carry the group though WGT does have a the Planar fight that does take a little bit more.

It is doable but the veteran dungeons are balanced after 2 dps 1 healer and 1 tank. If the dungeons wasn't class specific they would probably be a lot easier like dvelves.

To be able to solo content that's supposed to be cleared with 4 players is bad balancing, nothing else.

Actually, you can do most dungeons without a healer. Once you've done them all hundreds of times, you can avoid most boss attacks or know when to shield up accordingly, so a healer is not strictly necessary. Nowadays, I only rely on a healer for trash pulls because that is a lot of random damage spikes.

Well healing is only a part, the other is giving resources, debuff enemies, buff your team amongst other things a healer should do. When no healing is needed the healer ups the damage managing buffs and resources more frequently.

Stopnaggin

I can tell you from experience that playing with a group of like minded individual is way different than a pug. I know for a fact what I can get away with when running with my regular group, I know what my healer can keep me alive through and what she can't. Do I expect you to be the same as her? No I dont because I don't know how you plat or skills or anything else about you. In fairness WGT is not the easiest dungeon mechanics out there. To alleviate any further frustration I would suggest grouping with people you know.

When using gf I expect nothing, I usually tag some self heals and shielding which pulls from my dps but does keep me alive. So while dungeons may take longer by doing this, they keep wipes to a minimum.

Iselin

Stopnaggin wrote: »

When using gf I expect nothing, I usually tag some self heals and shielding which pulls from my dps but does keep me alive. So while dungeons may take longer by doing this, they keep wipes to a minimum.

Well that's the smart and obvious thing to do when queued as DPS. I use my vMA build when PUGging and adjust it to full on DPS if I get lucky with a good tank and healer.

Tandor

Gargath wrote: »

Some players are not obsessed about top dps and special sets. I even found a guy in my guild who is now lvl46 and still playing in random dropped armors and single non-set crafted weapon that someone did for him. When I asked him to make or offered to make a special set, he wasn't interested. Now considering such guy going into dungeon I can only imagine he gives a heck about how much dps he pulls or what others would think about his playing style. There are players and players. Must live with that.

I'd go so far as to say that it's never been an accepted condition of grouping in any MMO that you even know how much dps you pull, it's only elite min-max players who bother to monitor such stuff. You don't expect to come across such players with the LFG or dungeon finder tools in a MMO. If that sort of stuff matters you need to be in a guild of like-minded players, otherwise you're really in no position to judge how others perform and all you do in criticising them is promote solo play as most players just can't be bothered with what they consider to be all that nonsense and therefore avoid it.

DarknessShallFall

Honestly I don't care for one's DPS stats to be completely honest, to brag about how good your DPS is and how you think others suck make you look like a bigot to everyone else, even if you might not be trying to act that way. Truthfully tho, I have decent DPS, better then some, but I am not a huge fan of doing PUG dungeons or anything, PUGs suck anymore, they're usually always rude, and its their way or the highway. Heck one time I got kicked out of a pug because they kept dying for standing in red AoE's and they did it without a warning. I told myself I would never heal a PUG group ever again, and I haven't. (I have only been in like one Pick up group that was decent, fast, and no one died)

Also have you taken into consideration that some people like the challenge of making their toons weak on purpose for fun, or maybe they're lagging a lot during the dungeon? People do tend to lag a lot in those things, especially one's with a lot of mobs and AoE's. But I digress.

If you think people stink so badly, then teach them to be better without being a... well, pain in the rear about it is one way to put it. Honestly, not everyone knows what they're doing, what good builds are, etc.

I will agree tho, some people do like to stand in the "Red" area a lot lol. But I do know they can be hard to see depending on your graphic card or settings of videos.

dday3six

Because the game courted an audience based on a previously single-player only title. The game play approach to the typical TES title is not compatible with group centric MMO content. They’re bad at that aspect because it’s not what the majority are use to playing, and ESO gave zero performance feedback for a very long time.

Mentions of subjective fun, and ‘they’re not bad’ for the sake of spared feelings are distractions. When queuing for a group activity, you need to be prepared to contribute meaningfully to the group’s shared goal.

Bouldercleave

Many people like myself consider this as a game (i.e. entertainment) and simply don't take it that seriously.

I have no desire to study game mechanics and meta builds just so I don't fall short of someones expectations that has nothing more to do than play 16 hours a day.

I spent a total of 16 years in school already and only play for entertainment, not to impress anyone with my leet skillz.

TheNuminous1

Gulnagel wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

Bottom line is, how fun can it be, being way over CP 300 and pull 5-15 K dps?

Because your idea of "fun" is different from other people's idea of "fun" ...

Well I'm not good at football, if I swap out your goalkeeper in your favourite team and take his spot I might have a blast, but I promise you the fans won't feel the same way when I let in more goals than Brazil vs Germany.

Therefore I like to believe that the majority of people's perception of fun in a game like eso or any other mmos is to be able to clear content, get better gear and clear harder content the, build your character.

Yes some people are in it for the story but then stay there, don't go in to veteran RoM with 10 k health doing lightattacks and ruin the majority of players "fun"

and i bet your new teammates wouldent be happy with you on the team either.

thats exactly how i look at it. if you can complete the content on normal and want to play for fun so be it

but if your going to make other players suffer through vet content with you and your not a good player it is then effecting the team. and i dont wanna play on a team im bringing down so badly. maybe when i get better then ill try for the varsity team. and thats how i would hope others would see it.

if yoir the weak link get stronger then try again. dont keep trying when you obviously are hindering 3-11 other people.

Insandros

You know that ESO came after Skyrim and all the saga to the game right? An offline game, that lots of casual players played, lots of older people etc... lots haven't even knew what MMO were, or the basics of it, lots came in this game becaue of those older games, new to the universe, so, some of the game content is a bit harder for thse kind of casual players, not everone comes from Raiding WoW guilds, Ages of Conan raiding guilds etc.. name it, so sometimes you gotta be patient with those casual people and understand thatr, it might be a 50-60 old person behind it, as i came across a lot.

From your post, i presume, without aiming to insult you, but you seem like young, so, to answer your question here:

« Bottom line is, how fun can it be, being way over CP 300 and pull 5-15 K dps? »

I'll reply something quite easy, someone can be playing for 3 years, doing average stuff and get CP 3xx just by doing stuff here and there, and not be aiming to be an elite player pulling 30-50k, just running dungeons and pledge normal gets you those CP up and randoms as you might already know. I know a guildy, she's about 50 yrs old, really casual person, she's fun to play with, has been in game since launch and she's over cp 700, and does average DPS and keeps diying on Lava Queen every single time she does her special lava attack, but she quest, she does the events, run trials and pledges ever since, but, i never grab her for hard content stuff in my group and never will.... so, hope this answers your quesiton, CP doesn't mean Elite player and hardcore pro gamer, a simple player carrying low lvls in Skyreach can end up with cp 1000 just by doing this.

Iselin

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Many people like myself consider this as a game (i.e. entertainment) and simply don't take it that seriously.

I have no desire to study game mechanics and meta builds just so I don't fall short of someones expectations that has nothing more to do than play 16 hours a day.

I spent a total of 16 years in school already and only play for entertainment, not to impress anyone with my leet skillz.

Well thank you for sharing your passive aggressive words of wisdom about no-lifers.

Have you ever stopped to think that "enjoyment" is subjective and some people enjoy playing games well because they're more fun that way? No? I didn't think you had.

Zinaroth

zyk wrote: »

But at the same time, it was originally designed for the core/hardcore MMO audience so the mechanics and systems have a lot of depth to them. When you consider all of the systems together, it's a very daunting game for a casual player to get a handle on.

Game launched without trials and animation cancelling (and thus weaving) was an unintentional feature; so I don't think this statement could be any further from the truth.

That being said I agree the game is very complicated - but because of obscurity and lack of transparency - I don't find ESO to be more complicated than for example WoW, it just does a worse job at informing the player.

On the other hand it is more complicated because it offers more choise and there's more calculations/optimization going on than in for example WoW, on the other hand the optimization is less needed because the content in general is easier, althought admittedly I have not been doing any of the newer raids.

I dare say though that any HM end trial boss in ESO is not even comparable to the difficulty level of a mythic end raid boss in WoW in terms of the time investment and dedication needed to get it down.

ESO does a lot of things very well - which is why I am still here and keep coming back!

But raiding is not one of them and all the serious and hardcore MMO players (mainly raiders) left the game a long time ago.

Sure there are some good players left who still enjoy the ESO raiding (Hodor among others), but as much as I admire their skill levels they would have absolutely nothing on guilds like Paragon or Vodka from WoW - or atleast I chose to believe so.

smacx250

Yeah, I stick to normal mode dungeons and go solo so people like yourself (OP) don't get stuck with me. A couple a thousand hours played and at CP cap, so I've got no noob excuse.

Imza

those who don't live in the US of A have a much higher ping and will never ever get the best dps (no mater what they do)

everyone plays differently - and rightly so - don't expect me to play the same way as the next person - I AM NOT A ROBOT - having said that - I do adjust for team play.


Prior to One Tamriel - you had to get better at your game because the other areas were much harder..... (who remembers going to Reapers March as a lvl5?)

Since One Tamriel - I can and have completed whole quest lines with 2 skills and either light or heavy attacks - the game no longer teaches/forces you how to improve your play-style

TL:DR - One Tamriel broke the teaching cycle in the game

Kikke

I blame skyreach and skyreach only when it comes to a cp300+ dps hitting like a wet nuddle.

They are still new to the game, most of them gladly accept tips and tricks on how to improve.

Oh, and allways learn to ignore the skyrim players and your life will turn for the better.

And join a guild.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

TequilaFire wrote: »

Because that is normal in games and life.
Not all can live up to your standards.

Let the spiders feed upon them then!

People should understand where they should NOT go. I often find myself in 2s vets with ridicolous DDs. A couple of days ago while they were still trying to kill all the first trash mobs I couldn't resist and wrote "Before tomorrow, please". I mean, really?

Not to mention DD cheating the queue saying we don't need a tank. Sure, go ahead and let's see how long it takes for you to 1. die and 2. find another OP healer.

My favorite is the one that starts the dungeon and claims Run!. Sure run, let's see how far you get before you all wipe, while I have a calice of red wine.

The same happens in trials. Just because it's normail, you should not go to MOL if your dps is ridicolous (below 15K?) and you still don't know how to interrupt an enemy.

These people have zero respect for others. When you leave, you sitll suffer a 15 mins penalty. Youtube has plenty of guides. If you don't know the mechanics then 1. tell it in advance and/or 2. go normal first.

I would love ZOS to stop people from queuing as everything. Some kind of feedback would also be great. That is, DDs cheating the queue mechanics as tanks should get banned from dungeons for 24h or more.

Motherball

if you are over CP 300 it's not new anymore, takes time and grinding. I understand low CP players but I'm talking about the range 300 and up.

Dont forget some players are returning after months or years away from the game. Some people do not play consistently, so 300cp of someone who started the game at launch might still not be very good if they only play a few times a month or very sporadically off and on.

Also, I can reach 50 on any new character and instantly have 300cp from veteran status, but im still barely 50 and been playing the character only a month.

Mostly though, I feel many players do not aspire to be “good” at the game, as many have stated already.

Tandor

Imza wrote: »

those who don't live in the US of A have a much higher ping and will never ever get the best dps (no mater what they do)

Seriously? I get a much higher ping playing on the EU server because I don't live in the US of A?

Get over yourself. You need to get out a bit more, they do say that travel broadens the mind after all!

Ironically, given your comment, there seem to be far more complaints about lag and crashes from NA players on the NA servers than you get from EU players on the EU servers !

seedubsrun

Mentioned a few times but I think it's definitely lack of knowledge about how the game works within the game itself. You get the initial tutorial that shows you the very very basic stuff and then sets you loose with tons of different gear and combinations of that gear, lots of skills and ways they work and don't work with your other skills and with other players other skills, then some of that gears and skills works in certain areas but not others and the game doesn't tell you any of that. It doesn't explain what a lot of the info in tool tips means or how the numbers are calculated. It's pretty much 98% figure it out yourself. Some players are adept at that part and a lot struggle.

Also consider that if you're finding bad players in random groups then that often means those players don't have regular people to play with so again miss out on the ability to learn and get comfortable with everything.

I've thought for a long time that there should be some kind of fun addition to the game that offered optional expanded tutorials if the player wanted it. Maybe they could be hosted by the guilds. Fighters guild for stam builds, Mages for magic. You could even earn gear, achievements, titles, costumes, etc through completing it. There could be different difficulties and challenges to try. It would be useful to everyone from people trying to learn the game to people that want to hone their skills or test out builds and I think would raise the floor a bit at the end of the day.