I find it amazing that most of you believe what the op has wrote is 100% accurate when its obviously only one side of the story.
WHAT THE *** ZENIMAX. YOU'VE MADE HEALERS SO OBSOLETE THAT NOW TOXIC ELITES DEMAND HEALERS TO SPAM JABS AND HAVE OTHER FORM OF CONTRIBUTION TO THE GROUP DPS.
I have just witnessed a close friend of mine get called out, insulted, disrespected and kicked from a dungeon, on their Templar, for (quote) "BEING AN INCONSIDERATE D-BAG, WASTING EVERYONE'S TIME BY BEING USELESS SPAMMING HEALS INSTEAD OF JABS. GO UNINSTALL OR GO PLAY A DIFFERENT GAME IF YOU WANT TO BE A LITTTLE GAY HEALSPAMMING Princess"
First off, my friend is new to the game, and secondly, my friend wants to be a healer and HEAL. Why should anybody force anyone to do a role they had not chosen to perform!? They haven't picked a DPS role for a reason! And third: What even was that cursing about ???
Look what you've done, Zenimax!!!
FOR ***'S SAKE!!! YOU'VE RUINED PVE HEALING TO THE POINT NEWBIES HAVE TO PUT UP WITH THIS *** ATTITUDE. YOU'VE RUINED HEALING TO THE POINTS ITS LITERALLY OBSOLETE. FIX IT!!!!!!!
I'M SO DONE.... /rant over
And yet all the person did was make a friendly suggestion relevant to the topic (in a manner that directly acknowledges they know the post is about PVE) and you have an issue....?
as idk...PVP and PVE are with different rules?
if someone know atleast a bit he would know difference between PVE and PVP roles
like in PVE healer is more for buffing team than healing while in PVP is more for healing
DD's in PVE are fur pure most efficient dps in every possible costs of surviavability to have it on minimum minimum to just survive to get the best dps while on PVP we dont put everything on pure DPS, we put much more defense instead of minimum and we target for burst combos in time to time for kills isntead dealing full stable dps like in PVE
so stating single different opinion from PVP in PVE reletad problem is pretty invalid as I wrote....both game modes ahve different ules of play even if this is same game
it was like this thread just about apples...as someone got kicked for being unripe/green (when it wasnt matter much in group) apple in ripe red apples and someone started to giving opinion about oranges in apple thread
Right well. It may just been an issue with the translation software you're using for English then. What the guy said made perfect sense, and what you're saying doesn't make sense not is it very relevant. Sorry.
so what sense you see in comparing PVP needs to PVE mechanics, problems?
It doesn't have anything to do with mechanics?
OPs friend wants to do healing that's focused on raw healing and feeling like a proper healer. Dude commented saying that that's what you do as a healer in PVP and it thus might be interesting for OPs friend. Sure, maybe the friend doesnt wanna PVP but like.... It was just a light-hearted suggestion, and maybe it would actually appeal to them.
Not really sure how to even explain why this makes perfect sense. I mean it's just two logically connected pieces of conversation.
arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »I'd love to see them do the harder dlc vet dungeons without a healer. If they had their wish, nobody would be a healer and then nobody would get any tricky content done.
It's a simple fix. Zos, just nerf the self heals dps have. It won't be popular because so many have got used to it, including me. But it's a problem you've made for yourself. I think Maelstrom was the start of this slippary slope.
As this continues, less and less will play as healers and eveutually the group finder will be useless. What then, buff the self heals for dps so there is no need for healers?
It's a slippery slope.
Chickenstein wrote: »I find it amazing that most of you believe what the op has wrote is 100% accurate when its obviously only one side of the story.
We could as well assume he's lying, but do you want to deny that this problem exists? Never been in a pug vet where it turned out that the others want to do a run with 4 dds?
And yet all the person did was make a friendly suggestion relevant to the topic (in a manner that directly acknowledges they know the post is about PVE) and you have an issue....?
as idk...PVP and PVE are with different rules?
if someone know atleast a bit he would know difference between PVE and PVP roles
like in PVE healer is more for buffing team than healing while in PVP is more for healing
DD's in PVE are fur pure most efficient dps in every possible costs of surviavability to have it on minimum minimum to just survive to get the best dps while on PVP we dont put everything on pure DPS, we put much more defense instead of minimum and we target for burst combos in time to time for kills isntead dealing full stable dps like in PVE
so stating single different opinion from PVP in PVE reletad problem is pretty invalid as I wrote....both game modes ahve different ules of play even if this is same game
it was like this thread just about apples...as someone got kicked for being unripe/green (when it wasnt matter much in group) apple in ripe red apples and someone started to giving opinion about oranges in apple thread
Right well. It may just been an issue with the translation software you're using for English then. What the guy said made perfect sense, and what you're saying doesn't make sense not is it very relevant. Sorry.
so what sense you see in comparing PVP needs to PVE mechanics, problems?
It doesn't have anything to do with mechanics?
OPs friend wants to do healing that's focused on raw healing and feeling like a proper healer. Dude commented saying that that's what you do as a healer in PVP and it thus might be interesting for OPs friend. Sure, maybe the friend doesnt wanna PVP but like.... It was just a light-hearted suggestion, and maybe it would actually appeal to them.
Not really sure how to even explain why this makes perfect sense. I mean it's just two logically connected pieces of conversation.
yes it have to do with mechanics of content
sure, he wanted to do raw healing..but he got unfortunate and he got groupet with more toxic, meta chasers who deosnt appreciate raw healing with additional buffs for dps as they knew this game to good
most of community in this game prevent to even touch PVP here as they from overall are not interessed with PVP in any game
so maybe it was just suggestion as in PVP any healing is welcome..but still...most people dont care here on going on PVP for this
and for OP..as I wrote, he was unfortunate to get grouped with such exp and with this toxic players as if he get with average ESO player, or atleast not toxic then nobody will say, do anything to him because he was only healing as healer withou buffing his groups dps....as this is nothing new especially to someone just starting with game
he ust got unfortunate to get a beggining on already exp playerscalling him out for not doing what woudl do end game healer and PVP have nothing to do here
more to do here ahve got these teammates who kicked OP from dung fro jsut healing...like iif they was so attuned eachother, grouped then why on of thm didnt went as fake heal to currently get 3rd dd for better group dps?
as for real it is rare af if even it is possible to get healer from randoms which will be on so high lvl to give so many buffs to dps besides healing
My healer is a healer, who do buffs, debuffs and heal the group, that´s it. Dps who feel they need the extra dps should stay out off that content until ready for that type of content.
Your freind will get other chances and should take them and contiinue the healer road.
...it's a problem brought on by the expectations of heavy-raiding PvEers and it's gotten exponentially worse.....
And yet all the person did was make a friendly suggestion relevant to the topic (in a manner that directly acknowledges they know the post is about PVE) and you have an issue....?
as idk...PVP and PVE are with different rules?
if someone know atleast a bit he would know difference between PVE and PVP roles
like in PVE healer is more for buffing team than healing while in PVP is more for healing
DD's in PVE are fur pure most efficient dps in every possible costs of surviavability to have it on minimum minimum to just survive to get the best dps while on PVP we dont put everything on pure DPS, we put much more defense instead of minimum and we target for burst combos in time to time for kills isntead dealing full stable dps like in PVE
so stating single different opinion from PVP in PVE reletad problem is pretty invalid as I wrote....both game modes ahve different ules of play even if this is same game
it was like this thread just about apples...as someone got kicked for being unripe/green (when it wasnt matter much in group) apple in ripe red apples and someone started to giving opinion about oranges in apple thread
Right well. It may just been an issue with the translation software you're using for English then. What the guy said made perfect sense, and what you're saying doesn't make sense not is it very relevant. Sorry.
so what sense you see in comparing PVP needs to PVE mechanics, problems?
It doesn't have anything to do with mechanics?
OPs friend wants to do healing that's focused on raw healing and feeling like a proper healer. Dude commented saying that that's what you do as a healer in PVP and it thus might be interesting for OPs friend. Sure, maybe the friend doesnt wanna PVP but like.... It was just a light-hearted suggestion, and maybe it would actually appeal to them.
Not really sure how to even explain why this makes perfect sense. I mean it's just two logically connected pieces of conversation.
yes it have to do with mechanics of content
sure, he wanted to do raw healing..but he got unfortunate and he got groupet with more toxic, meta chasers who deosnt appreciate raw healing with additional buffs for dps as they knew this game to good
most of community in this game prevent to even touch PVP here as they from overall are not interessed with PVP in any game
so maybe it was just suggestion as in PVP any healing is welcome..but still...most people dont care here on going on PVP for this
and for OP..as I wrote, he was unfortunate to get grouped with such exp and with this toxic players as if he get with average ESO player, or atleast not toxic then nobody will say, do anything to him because he was only healing as healer withou buffing his groups dps....as this is nothing new especially to someone just starting with game
he ust got unfortunate to get a beggining on already exp playerscalling him out for not doing what woudl do end game healer and PVP have nothing to do here
more to do here ahve got these teammates who kicked OP from dung fro jsut healing...like iif they was so attuned eachother, grouped then why on of thm didnt went as fake heal to currently get 3rd dd for better group dps?
as for real it is rare af if even it is possible to get healer from randoms which will be on so high lvl to give so many buffs to dps besides healing
Like.... That's all cool. But it's still okay that someone made a relevant comment offering PVP healing as an option. It fit the context.
gatekeeper13 wrote: »You should have taken a screenshot and reported them for harassment. Such trash should not be part of the ESO community.
Healer's role is to heal and apply buffs, not contribute to DPS. If the DDs dps sucked, blaming the healer is not an excuse.
That still only solves our personal issue here though, and I infact do have a screenshot. I'm pretty sure more will come, seeing as healing has indeed become nearly useless.
I've done most of the vDLC HM without a healer on my DK Tank, utilizing 3 other DPS. The difference, though, is that I do not queue in GF hoping to get three DPS - I PUG it from zone where people know what to expect as they join the party. I will also go on to say that even in vTrials, healers are a support role that is also expected to deliver damage while maintaining up-times. With all of that said, that in no way ever entitles any other player to act egregious nor vitriolic when addressing another player's performance in a GF scenario.
Jem_Kindheart wrote: »...it's a problem brought on by the expectations of heavy-raiding PvEers and it's gotten exponentially worse.....
Idk about that specifically... endgame raiders in my very extensive experience are pretty nice people and absolutely understand and respect the value of healers. Again for lots of Norm dungeons, ofc the healer might not need to heal much, but OP's friend is new to the game and just trying their best.
The reason the behavioral issue has seemed to get worse is due to an overall shift in ESO's player base. A good many of the long playing veteran base has moved on (due to nerfs, boredom, and being fed up with many things, etc etc) and meanwhile the population of players coming over from other more toxic games has gone up. Then additionally, a noticable portion of the midgame mediocre players are developing increasingly elitist attitudes because the good leadership has left and they don't know any better. They got the idea that because they watched a couple Alcast streams and did a couple vet dungeons one day that they're suddenly amazing gods to gaming. Most ESO players are still overall kind and nice, but the number of toxics has definitely increased.
Only way to deal with it is eyeroll and move on with your day.
arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »There's always one.
Good for you. Whoop dee doo. The vast vast vast majority of players don't and can't do this. Great, so you choose to do it that way and fairly you don't use group finder. But most people need to.
All you're doing by making the argument is contradicting the whole point. Fine, you don't need it. Great. So then you go out and blurt how brilliant you are. Zos see these few posts and say "well some people are fine with it".
It's about being constructive.
I'm an 810 on xbox and have done pretty much all of the vet content before returning to PC last year. I have dd's, tanks and healers on that platform. Never in my life has my healer - 4 years - ever been asked to contribute towards damage. The healers are there to heal, buff, debuff and help with resource management. As a dd, I'm all for it. I love a good healer.
Darkstorne wrote: »Healer here. I'm lucky I haven't run into this issue yet, but it's definitely something I've been fearing with how ZOS keep pushing the DPS-is-king meta (even today still nerfing off-meta defensive sets like Iceheart... fml), to the point that making normal dungeons harder in an attempt to make healers and tanks more desirable wouldn't solve the issue. Because the answer is always "deal more damage, faster" so that tricky boss mechanics appear fewer times, or not at all.
They're between a rock and a hard place, because it doesn't take a genius game dev to recognize ESO's combat mechanics and systems are deeply flawed, but it's been part of the game for so long now that too much of the DPS playerbase is conditioned to defend it, despite the prevalence of fake tanks/healers and now, it would seem, people being happy to see their PUG has fake tanks and healers. That's clearly a sign that the system is broken.
I don't enjoy DPS roles in multiplayer games. I always play support/healer roles. Luckily, I have been able to adjust well so far by switching to a focus on buffing, debuffing, and throwing down a bunch of AOE to help with DPS in normal dungeons. I use Spell Power Cure though (haven't been brave enough to attempt trials yet to farm Olorime) which relies on over-healing, so I do fear the day when someone snaps at me for all the Regeneration spam instead of Jabs spam
VaranisArano wrote: »The basic job of a healer is to heal the group.
So there's three things to consider:
1. Toxic players are gonna be toxic, and there aren't any gameplay changes ZOS can make that will make them not toxic. If its not "useless healers", it'll be stuff like "Why are you wearing Combat Physician to heal" in a normal dungeon (a real example I saw once).
2. There's more to playing a healer well than just keeping the group healed. Your friend might want to consider the difference between a healer who's doing the bare minimum (healing the group) and a healer who's providing full-fledged group support (heals, buffs, and damage). Even though they are new, practicing a rotation now that does more than heal and overheal is a good idea to prepare them for harder content.
3. Harder content, such as ZOS' DLC dungeons and trials, requires more than just the bare minimum out of support players. That's by design. If you want to effectively support your group, you have to pay attention to what support they actually need. If a group needs constant healing, by all means, heal and overheal. If they don't need constant heals, a good healer adapts and focuses more on buffs and damage while saving the big heals for when they are needed. This is, IMO anyway, far more interesting gameplay for healers than just heal spamming. If your friend intends to do harder content, its a good idea to start practicing the basics of group support now, especially for running with guild groups that really benefit from a well-played healer.
arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »There's always one.
Good for you. Whoop dee doo. The vast vast vast majority of players don't and can't do this. Great, so you choose to do it that way and fairly you don't use group finder. But most people need to.
All you're doing by making the argument is contradicting the whole point. Fine, you don't need it. Great. So then you go out and blurt how brilliant you are. Zos see these few posts and say "well some people are fine with it".
It's about being constructive.
I'm an 810 on xbox and have done pretty much all of the vet content before returning to PC last year. I have dd's, tanks and healers on that platform. Never in my life has my healer - 4 years - ever been asked to contribute towards damage. The healers are there to heal, buff, debuff and help with resource management. As a dd, I'm all for it. I love a good healer.
I believe you may have taken my point as an attack, or perhaps a personal slight - which it was not intended to be. If it came across as that, I apologize. I was only trying to provide evidence of experience to qualify my statements. I'll reiterate concisely; Healers should be working damage into their up-times, especially if they aspire to go on to vTrial progression. To the relevance of the OP, I stated that if people are looking for healers to be damage dealers only, then they should not rely on GF queues, as they will not find it there. Again, apologies if my previous post came across as anything but cordial.
Edit for clarity and removal of generalities.
Chickenstein wrote: »That still only solves our personal issue here though, and I infact do have a screenshot. I'm pretty sure more will come, seeing as healing has indeed become nearly useless.
To be fair, buffing roles have never been a strong part of ESO at any time. I guess it's a side effect of classes not clearly tied to roles.