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• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – May 14, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, ZENIMAX. Healer kicked for "NOT HELPING WITH DPS"
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Chickenstein✭✭✭✭I find it amazing that most of you believe what the op has wrote is 100% accurate when its obviously only one side of the story.
We could as well assume he's lying, but do you want to deny that this problem exists? Never been in a pug vet where it turned out that the others want to do a run with 4 dds?Orc Harvester: It's about picking flowers and smashing things3 -
arun_rajputb16_ESO✭✭✭✭I'd love to see them do the harder dlc vet dungeons without a healer. If they had their wish, nobody would be a healer and then nobody would get any tricky content done.
It's a simple fix. Zos, just nerf the self heals dps have. It won't be popular because so many have got used to it, including me. But it's a problem you've made for yourself. I think Maelstrom was the start of this slippary slope.
As this continues, less and less will play as healers and eveutually the group finder will be useless. What then, buff the self heals for dps so there is no need for healers?
It's a slippery slope.2 -
svendf✭✭✭✭WHAT THE *** ZENIMAX. YOU'VE MADE HEALERS SO OBSOLETE THAT NOW TOXIC ELITES DEMAND HEALERS TO SPAM JABS AND HAVE OTHER FORM OF CONTRIBUTION TO THE GROUP DPS.
I have just witnessed a close friend of mine get called out, insulted, disrespected and kicked from a dungeon, on their Templar, for (quote) "BEING AN INCONSIDERATE D-BAG, WASTING EVERYONE'S TIME BY BEING USELESS SPAMMING HEALS INSTEAD OF JABS. GO UNINSTALL OR GO PLAY A DIFFERENT GAME IF YOU WANT TO BE A LITTTLE GAY HEALSPAMMING Princess"
First off, my friend is new to the game, and secondly, my friend wants to be a healer and HEAL. Why should anybody force anyone to do a role they had not chosen to perform!? They haven't picked a DPS role for a reason! And third: What even was that cursing about ???
Look what you've done, Zenimax!!!
FOR ***'S SAKE!!! YOU'VE RUINED PVE HEALING TO THE POINT NEWBIES HAVE TO PUT UP WITH THIS *** ATTITUDE. YOU'VE RUINED HEALING TO THE POINTS ITS LITERALLY OBSOLETE. FIX IT!!!!!!!
I'M SO DONE.... /rant over
Dps here magplar (1100+ )
Man sorry to see that happen. It´s some people on the forums, who believe they have an answere to everything.
The posts are easy to find and are all about healers should do dps aswell or healer not needed. Yes!! Im ssure you have seen them.
My healer is a healer, who do buffs, debuffs and heal the group, that´s it. Dps who feel they need the extra dps should stay out off that content until ready for that type of content.
Your freind will get other chances and should take them and contiinue the healer road.
These player´s are not just bad for your freind, they are also very bad for the game and community as so.
Zos have to look into this AND the community should oppose post like no need of this or that role. All are needed
Gl to your friend.10 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭
And yet all the person did was make a friendly suggestion relevant to the topic (in a manner that directly acknowledges they know the post is about PVE) and you have an issue....?
as idk...PVP and PVE are with different rules?
if someone know atleast a bit he would know difference between PVE and PVP roles
like in PVE healer is more for buffing team than healing while in PVP is more for healing
DD's in PVE are fur pure most efficient dps in every possible costs of surviavability to have it on minimum minimum to just survive to get the best dps while on PVP we dont put everything on pure DPS, we put much more defense instead of minimum and we target for burst combos in time to time for kills isntead dealing full stable dps like in PVE
so stating single different opinion from PVP in PVE reletad problem is pretty invalid as I wrote....both game modes ahve different ules of play even if this is same game
it was like this thread just about apples...as someone got kicked for being unripe/green (when it wasnt matter much in group) apple in ripe red apples and someone started to giving opinion about oranges in apple thread
Right well. It may just been an issue with the translation software you're using for English then. What the guy said made perfect sense, and what you're saying doesn't make sense not is it very relevant. Sorry.
so what sense you see in comparing PVP needs to PVE mechanics, problems?
It doesn't have anything to do with mechanics?
OPs friend wants to do healing that's focused on raw healing and feeling like a proper healer. Dude commented saying that that's what you do as a healer in PVP and it thus might be interesting for OPs friend. Sure, maybe the friend doesnt wanna PVP but like.... It was just a light-hearted suggestion, and maybe it would actually appeal to them.
Not really sure how to even explain why this makes perfect sense. I mean it's just two logically connected pieces of conversation.
yes it have to do with mechanics of content
sure, he wanted to do raw healing..but he got unfortunate and he got groupet with more toxic, meta chasers who deosnt appreciate raw healing with additional buffs for dps as they knew this game to good
most of community in this game prevent to even touch PVP here as they from overall are not interessed with PVP in any game
so maybe it was just suggestion as in PVP any healing is welcome..but still...most people dont care here on going on PVP for this
and for OP..as I wrote, he was unfortunate to get grouped with such exp and with this toxic players as if he get with average ESO player, or atleast not toxic then nobody will say, do anything to him because he was only healing as healer withou buffing his groups dps....as this is nothing new especially to someone just starting with game
he ust got unfortunate to get a beggining on already exp playerscalling him out for not doing what woudl do end game healer and PVP have nothing to do here
more to do here ahve got these teammates who kicked OP from dung fro jsut healing...like iif they was so attuned eachother, grouped then why on of thm didnt went as fake heal to currently get 3rd dd for better group dps?
as for real it is rare af if even it is possible to get healer from randoms which will be on so high lvl to give so many buffs to dps besides healing0 -
Belyar✭✭✭Maybe he should just do what they said and try to have some dps while healing. Its not impossible to do it and it benefits the group. Sure they were rude and deserve a report, but they're not wrong. PureHealer is borderline useless until vet dlc dungeons and beyond.4
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MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Clear problem of this game (with exception of trials) is that you can have good or even excellent healing capability with zero investing into it other then slotting it. So all pugs dps runs with some sort of self-heal which puts out crazy numbers because it scales with dps stats. All tanks build to have decent self-healing because they know that healer maybe fake or will be dealing damage instead of healing with exception of rare healing check mechanics.
The only thing which can be done - is to separate damage and healing stats. But you know how ZOS balances game now... this will be entirely new game if this happens and no guarantee it will be better game.2 -
Malkiv✭✭✭✭✭arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »I'd love to see them do the harder dlc vet dungeons without a healer. If they had their wish, nobody would be a healer and then nobody would get any tricky content done.
It's a simple fix. Zos, just nerf the self heals dps have. It won't be popular because so many have got used to it, including me. But it's a problem you've made for yourself. I think Maelstrom was the start of this slippary slope.
As this continues, less and less will play as healers and eveutually the group finder will be useless. What then, buff the self heals for dps so there is no need for healers?
It's a slippery slope.
I've done most of the vDLC HM without a healer on my DK Tank, utilizing 3 other DPS. The difference, though, is that I do not queue in GF hoping to get three DPS - I PUG it from zone where people know what to expect as they join the party. I will also go on to say that even in vTrials, healers are a support role that is also expected to deliver damage while maintaining up-times. With all of that said, that in no way ever entitles any other player to act egregious nor vitriolic when addressing another player's performance in a GF scenario.PC-NA | PvP (Gray Host & BGs) | PvE (vTrials & vDGs)2 -
Brandathorbel✭✭✭✭✭Chickenstein wrote: »I find it amazing that most of you believe what the op has wrote is 100% accurate when its obviously only one side of the story.
We could as well assume he's lying, but do you want to deny that this problem exists? Never been in a pug vet where it turned out that the others want to do a run with 4 dds?
problem exists but 99% of the time the story tends not to be all that accurate people people refuse to admit to how they played a part in the conversation.
but healing is needed on vet content, for the most part. Most dps don't even bother putting a heal on their bar. For me I have the opposite problem. I always put a heal on my bar because its hard to find a healer that actual heals.2 -
Raisin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
And yet all the person did was make a friendly suggestion relevant to the topic (in a manner that directly acknowledges they know the post is about PVE) and you have an issue....?
as idk...PVP and PVE are with different rules?
if someone know atleast a bit he would know difference between PVE and PVP roles
like in PVE healer is more for buffing team than healing while in PVP is more for healing
DD's in PVE are fur pure most efficient dps in every possible costs of surviavability to have it on minimum minimum to just survive to get the best dps while on PVP we dont put everything on pure DPS, we put much more defense instead of minimum and we target for burst combos in time to time for kills isntead dealing full stable dps like in PVE
so stating single different opinion from PVP in PVE reletad problem is pretty invalid as I wrote....both game modes ahve different ules of play even if this is same game
it was like this thread just about apples...as someone got kicked for being unripe/green (when it wasnt matter much in group) apple in ripe red apples and someone started to giving opinion about oranges in apple thread
Right well. It may just been an issue with the translation software you're using for English then. What the guy said made perfect sense, and what you're saying doesn't make sense not is it very relevant. Sorry.
so what sense you see in comparing PVP needs to PVE mechanics, problems?
It doesn't have anything to do with mechanics?
OPs friend wants to do healing that's focused on raw healing and feeling like a proper healer. Dude commented saying that that's what you do as a healer in PVP and it thus might be interesting for OPs friend. Sure, maybe the friend doesnt wanna PVP but like.... It was just a light-hearted suggestion, and maybe it would actually appeal to them.
Not really sure how to even explain why this makes perfect sense. I mean it's just two logically connected pieces of conversation.
yes it have to do with mechanics of content
sure, he wanted to do raw healing..but he got unfortunate and he got groupet with more toxic, meta chasers who deosnt appreciate raw healing with additional buffs for dps as they knew this game to good
most of community in this game prevent to even touch PVP here as they from overall are not interessed with PVP in any game
so maybe it was just suggestion as in PVP any healing is welcome..but still...most people dont care here on going on PVP for this
and for OP..as I wrote, he was unfortunate to get grouped with such exp and with this toxic players as if he get with average ESO player, or atleast not toxic then nobody will say, do anything to him because he was only healing as healer withou buffing his groups dps....as this is nothing new especially to someone just starting with game
he ust got unfortunate to get a beggining on already exp playerscalling him out for not doing what woudl do end game healer and PVP have nothing to do here
more to do here ahve got these teammates who kicked OP from dung fro jsut healing...like iif they was so attuned eachother, grouped then why on of thm didnt went as fake heal to currently get 3rd dd for better group dps?
as for real it is rare af if even it is possible to get healer from randoms which will be on so high lvl to give so many buffs to dps besides healing
Like.... That's all cool. But it's still okay that someone made a relevant comment offering PVP healing as an option. It fit the context.Edited by Raisin on February 5, 2020 1:30PM2 -
arun_rajputb16_ESO✭✭✭✭My healer is a healer, who do buffs, debuffs and heal the group, that´s it. Dps who feel they need the extra dps should stay out off that content until ready for that type of content.
Your freind will get other chances and should take them and contiinue the healer road.
Couldn't agree more. This is completely it. If their damage isn't good enough, why take it out on the healer? Well said.
3 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The basic job of a healer is to heal the group.
A good healer heals the group, buffs the group, follows mechanics, and - yes - does DPS as well. Many dungeon groups don't need constant healing and there's ample time to work some DPS into a rotation of heals and buffs.
I realize your friend is a new healer and possibly still working on the "just heal the group" part of the job, but its worth thinking about how to be a good healer already.
Its like being a tank. The bare minimum is that you hold boss aggro and don't die. While a good tank is holding aggro on the boss and powerful adds, crowd-controlling mobs, holding the boss more or less still for the DDs, following mechanics, buffing the group and debuffing the boss. (And depending on how bad the group DPS is, the tank might well be trying to deal damage as well.)
So there's three things to consider:
1. Toxic players are gonna be toxic, and there aren't any gameplay changes ZOS can make that will make them not toxic. If its not "useless healers", it'll be stuff like "Why are you wearing Combat Physician to heal" in a normal dungeon (a real example I saw once).
2. There's more to playing a healer well than just keeping the group healed. Your friend might want to consider the difference between a healer who's doing the bare minimum (healing the group) and a healer who's providing full-fledged group support (heals, buffs, and damage). Even though they are new, practicing a rotation now that does more than heal and overheal is a good idea to prepare them for harder content.
3. Harder content, such as ZOS' DLC dungeons and trials, requires more than just the bare minimum out of support players. That's by design. If you want to effectively support your group, you have to pay attention to what support they actually need. If a group needs constant healing, by all means, heal and overheal. If they don't need constant heals, a good healer adapts and focuses more on buffs and damage while saving the big heals for when they are needed. This is, IMO anyway, far more interesting gameplay for healers than just heal spamming. If your friend intends to do harder content, its a good idea to start practicing the basics of group support now, especially for running with guild groups that really benefit from a well-played healer.
This is a long post to say simply: demanding that ZOS "fix" balance so that all healers have to do is heal in order to be good healers is an excellent way to cheapen the role of healer. Instead, the objections of toxic players aside, its worth considering that playing a good healer means doing more than just spamming heals and only heals no matter the circumstances - and that's a good thing!6 -
Jem_Kindheart✭✭✭✭...it's a problem brought on by the expectations of heavy-raiding PvEers and it's gotten exponentially worse.....
Idk about that specifically... endgame raiders in my very extensive experience are pretty nice people and absolutely understand and respect the value of healers. Again for lots of Norm dungeons, ofc the healer might not need to heal much, but OP's friend is new to the game and just trying their best.
The reason the behavioral issue has seemed to get worse is due to an overall shift in ESO's player base. A good many of the long playing veteran base has moved on (due to nerfs, boredom, and being fed up with many things, etc etc) and meanwhile the population of players coming over from other more toxic games has gone up. Then additionally, a noticable portion of the midgame mediocre players are developing increasingly elitist attitudes because the good leadership has left and they don't know any better. They got the idea that because they watched a couple Alcast streams and did a couple vet dungeons one day that they're suddenly amazing gods to gaming. Most ESO players are still overall kind and nice, but the number of toxics has definitely increased.
Only way to deal with it is eyeroll and move on with your day.
Longtimer since beta, the usual. 26 CP toons. ~1700cp on main account, 1000cp on 2nd account. Endgame-ish lol. Most Vets / some HM's cleared.4 -
Tsar_Gekkou✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lmao, I run my healers in full vet trial setups and have never come across any pug telling me to help with dps. You must've gotten matched up with some absolute smoothbrains for them to get mad at a healer for healing, buffing and debuffing like they're supposed to. Although, if the dps is trash I will weave crushing shock to try and help along the 4-digit dps so there is that I guess. They probably watch vSS HM videos of 1 sorc/templar healer running a HealPS build which is basically just a dps who does some off-heals and think that's how you burn through dungeons, when running the same setup I use for trial hardmodes in pug dungeons has never hurt anyone in the slightest. The funny part is that the DDs who are complaining are usually the ones who die if they don't have a constant stream of heals.Xbox NA healer main
vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+3 | vBRP | vSS HM | vKA HM | vRG HM |
Flawless Conqueror | Spirit Slayer | Dro-mA'thra Destroyer | Tick-Tock-Tormentor | Immortal Redeemer | Gryphon Heart | Godslayer | Dawnbringer | Planesbreaker |3 -
Darkstorne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Healer here. I'm lucky I haven't run into this issue yet, but it's definitely something I've been fearing with how ZOS keep pushing the DPS-is-king meta (even today still nerfing off-meta defensive sets like Iceheart... fml), to the point that making normal dungeons harder in an attempt to make healers and tanks more desirable wouldn't solve the issue. Because the answer is always "deal more damage, faster" so that tricky boss mechanics appear fewer times, or not at all.
They're between a rock and a hard place, because it doesn't take a genius game dev to recognize ESO's combat mechanics and systems are deeply flawed, but it's been part of the game for so long now that too much of the DPS playerbase is conditioned to defend it, despite the prevalence of fake tanks/healers and now, it would seem, people being happy to see their PUG has fake tanks and healers. That's clearly a sign that the system is broken.
I don't enjoy DPS roles in multiplayer games. I always play support/healer roles. Luckily, I have been able to adjust well so far by switching to a focus on buffing, debuffing, and throwing down a bunch of AOE to help with DPS in normal dungeons. I use Spell Power Cure though (haven't been brave enough to attempt trials yet to farm Olorime) which relies on over-healing, so I do fear the day when someone snaps at me for all the Regeneration spam instead of Jabs spam
4 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭
And yet all the person did was make a friendly suggestion relevant to the topic (in a manner that directly acknowledges they know the post is about PVE) and you have an issue....?
as idk...PVP and PVE are with different rules?
if someone know atleast a bit he would know difference between PVE and PVP roles
like in PVE healer is more for buffing team than healing while in PVP is more for healing
DD's in PVE are fur pure most efficient dps in every possible costs of surviavability to have it on minimum minimum to just survive to get the best dps while on PVP we dont put everything on pure DPS, we put much more defense instead of minimum and we target for burst combos in time to time for kills isntead dealing full stable dps like in PVE
so stating single different opinion from PVP in PVE reletad problem is pretty invalid as I wrote....both game modes ahve different ules of play even if this is same game
it was like this thread just about apples...as someone got kicked for being unripe/green (when it wasnt matter much in group) apple in ripe red apples and someone started to giving opinion about oranges in apple thread
Right well. It may just been an issue with the translation software you're using for English then. What the guy said made perfect sense, and what you're saying doesn't make sense not is it very relevant. Sorry.
so what sense you see in comparing PVP needs to PVE mechanics, problems?
It doesn't have anything to do with mechanics?
OPs friend wants to do healing that's focused on raw healing and feeling like a proper healer. Dude commented saying that that's what you do as a healer in PVP and it thus might be interesting for OPs friend. Sure, maybe the friend doesnt wanna PVP but like.... It was just a light-hearted suggestion, and maybe it would actually appeal to them.
Not really sure how to even explain why this makes perfect sense. I mean it's just two logically connected pieces of conversation.
yes it have to do with mechanics of content
sure, he wanted to do raw healing..but he got unfortunate and he got groupet with more toxic, meta chasers who deosnt appreciate raw healing with additional buffs for dps as they knew this game to good
most of community in this game prevent to even touch PVP here as they from overall are not interessed with PVP in any game
so maybe it was just suggestion as in PVP any healing is welcome..but still...most people dont care here on going on PVP for this
and for OP..as I wrote, he was unfortunate to get grouped with such exp and with this toxic players as if he get with average ESO player, or atleast not toxic then nobody will say, do anything to him because he was only healing as healer withou buffing his groups dps....as this is nothing new especially to someone just starting with game
he ust got unfortunate to get a beggining on already exp playerscalling him out for not doing what woudl do end game healer and PVP have nothing to do here
more to do here ahve got these teammates who kicked OP from dung fro jsut healing...like iif they was so attuned eachother, grouped then why on of thm didnt went as fake heal to currently get 3rd dd for better group dps?
as for real it is rare af if even it is possible to get healer from randoms which will be on so high lvl to give so many buffs to dps besides healing
Like.... That's all cool. But it's still okay that someone made a relevant comment offering PVP healing as an option. It fit the context.
this also is cool...but sorry but if OP get so much upset by something like that...then he will be even more and often annoyed on pvp by pvp community so it wont help for his nerves at all
pvp in literally every game is much more nerving and so it wont be to healthy to people who have problems with nerves, people more nervous around
just wait for 1st tbag on cyro for being so annyoing healbot here or hate wisps for this
0 -
DMBCML✭✭✭gatekeeper13 wrote: »You should have taken a screenshot and reported them for harassment. Such trash should not be part of the ESO community.
Healer's role is to heal and apply buffs, not contribute to DPS. If the DDs dps sucked, blaming the healer is not an excuse.
That still only solves our personal issue here though, and I infact do have a screenshot. I'm pretty sure more will come, seeing as healing has indeed become nearly useless.
If healing is becoming useless, the game is getting too easy.1 -
arun_rajputb16_ESO✭✭✭✭I've done most of the vDLC HM without a healer on my DK Tank, utilizing 3 other DPS. The difference, though, is that I do not queue in GF hoping to get three DPS - I PUG it from zone where people know what to expect as they join the party. I will also go on to say that even in vTrials, healers are a support role that is also expected to deliver damage while maintaining up-times. With all of that said, that in no way ever entitles any other player to act egregious nor vitriolic when addressing another player's performance in a GF scenario.
There's always one.
Good for you. Whoop dee doo. The vast vast vast majority of players don't and can't do this. Great, so you choose to do it that way and fairly you don't use group finder. But most people need to.
All you're doing by making the argument is contradicting the whole point. Fine, you don't need it. Great. So then you go out and blurt how brilliant you are. Zos see these few posts and say "well some people are fine with it".
It's about being constructive.
I'm an 810 on xbox and have done pretty much all of the vet content before returning to PC last year. I have dd's, tanks and healers on that platform. Never in my life has my healer - 4 years - ever been asked to contribute towards damage. The healers are there to heal, buff, debuff and help with resource management. As a dd, I'm all for it. I love a good healer.4 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Jem_Kindheart wrote: »...it's a problem brought on by the expectations of heavy-raiding PvEers and it's gotten exponentially worse.....
Idk about that specifically... endgame raiders in my very extensive experience are pretty nice people and absolutely understand and respect the value of healers. Again for lots of Norm dungeons, ofc the healer might not need to heal much, but OP's friend is new to the game and just trying their best.
The reason the behavioral issue has seemed to get worse is due to an overall shift in ESO's player base. A good many of the long playing veteran base has moved on (due to nerfs, boredom, and being fed up with many things, etc etc) and meanwhile the population of players coming over from other more toxic games has gone up. Then additionally, a noticable portion of the midgame mediocre players are developing increasingly elitist attitudes because the good leadership has left and they don't know any better. They got the idea that because they watched a couple Alcast streams and did a couple vet dungeons one day that they're suddenly amazing gods to gaming. Most ESO players are still overall kind and nice, but the number of toxics has definitely increased.
Only way to deal with it is eyeroll and move on with your day.
In my experience, most of the heavy-raiding PvEers are only in a select percentage. I do endgame raiding myself and those that are there for the experience and not the grind generally are better people. However there IS this group of people that have been trolling the groupfinder like this for literal years from highly prolific raiding guilds that try to enforce their guild requirements within a PUG group all while dehumanizing other players 'beneath them' and using slurs. This issue isn't exactly new.Edited by Sephyr on February 5, 2020 1:50PM2 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I get the frustration, both in regards to the healing issue, as well as the behaviours encountered in that group. Firstly, if they wanted him to do more damage (which is a valid request, damage in PUGs can be really low sometimes), they could have asked politely, but if your friend didn't want to, then the others shouldn't have grounds to complain, since it was a PUG, and it can have players of all levels/experience, so that's on them. Hopefully, when your friend gets more experience as a healer, they will realize that dungeon runs don't need that much in terms of raw healing, and they will slot some dps skills to help in such cases. If they only want to have support skills, then they should turn to more difficult content, like trials. However, it can be argued that even then, they will have to use some offensive skills, like wall of elements/power of the light/growing swarm, etc., to help with debuffing, as a bare minimum. There's no space for pure healing in PvE nowdays, except only in a few fights (or even just phases within those fights), and this has to do with how much mitigation there exists in groups, via cp/sets/ skills, and how easy it is to overheal, and of course, the content itself. The top groups nowdays who are pushing scores, have one healer actually act as an off-dps, with sets like martial knowledge and zen's, so they can contribute to the damage, and there're incredible healers out there who can do that. But the truth remains that, at least in organized groups and runs, if a healer only heals, they will rapidly get bored, and be out of things to do, unless they over cast stuff. In progressing groups, however, that is not the case so much, and a pure healer is more needed. I think the game tried to change the direction of 'damage overcomes everything' trope with the Scalebreaker dungeons, which have some mechanics that force to pause or drop damage, or switch the target of it, and I think for achievements, such as no-death, or trifectas, someone at the very least off-healing makes everything easier, but unless the devs rework mitigation, a pure healer will not be as needed, the more experience a group gains. This issue is not unique to healers though; tanks have had to alter their playstyle, and now for example, you see trial tanks running ele drain, altar, WoE, or even medium armour sets like hircine's (and of course alkosh) to help their group, while healers wear ebon situationally. In my opinion, this makes tanks and healers more versatile, and overall it's beneficial to a group, depending on how optimized they want to be. In conclusion, there's a space for pure healers (or pure tanks), but it's not going to be in end-game content so much, and in that setting, an experienced healer would be bored if they only had to heal, as things are.1 -
Malkiv✭✭✭✭✭arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »There's always one.
Good for you. Whoop dee doo. The vast vast vast majority of players don't and can't do this. Great, so you choose to do it that way and fairly you don't use group finder. But most people need to.
All you're doing by making the argument is contradicting the whole point. Fine, you don't need it. Great. So then you go out and blurt how brilliant you are. Zos see these few posts and say "well some people are fine with it".
It's about being constructive.
I'm an 810 on xbox and have done pretty much all of the vet content before returning to PC last year. I have dd's, tanks and healers on that platform. Never in my life has my healer - 4 years - ever been asked to contribute towards damage. The healers are there to heal, buff, debuff and help with resource management. As a dd, I'm all for it. I love a good healer.
I believe you may have taken my point as an attack, or perhaps a personal slight - which it was not intended to be. If it came across as that, I apologize. I was only trying to provide evidence of experience to qualify my statements. I'll reiterate concisely; Healers should be working damage into their up-times, especially if they aspire to go on to vTrial progression. To the relevance of the OP, I stated that if people are looking for healers to be damage dealers only, then they should not rely on GF queues, as they will not find it there. Again, apologies if my previous post came across as anything but cordial.
Edit for clarity and removal of generalities.Edited by Malkiv on February 5, 2020 1:48PMPC-NA | PvP (Gray Host & BGs) | PvE (vTrials & vDGs)2 -
Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo✭✭✭✭✭
✭I can imagine the dd's then dying in group as the healer starts his MK+ZEN rotation.
DD's : 'What the hell? Why didn't you heal!?'
Just avoid these toxic people and your friend (or yourself) should find groups who reflect your wishes and gameplay.
The healer (DPS) role started mostly in Veteran Sunspire (Elsweyr), but most daily dungeon groups wish for dd's these days. If you end up in one of these groups you can pretty much see in the first 5 minutes if it's going to be aggressive or not.
I prefer to believe in strangers, but sometimes even giving a friendly hint can go sideways...so mixed feelings
Edited by Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo on February 5, 2020 1:51PM0 -
svendf✭✭✭✭Darkstorne wrote: »Healer here. I'm lucky I haven't run into this issue yet, but it's definitely something I've been fearing with how ZOS keep pushing the DPS-is-king meta (even today still nerfing off-meta defensive sets like Iceheart... fml), to the point that making normal dungeons harder in an attempt to make healers and tanks more desirable wouldn't solve the issue. Because the answer is always "deal more damage, faster" so that tricky boss mechanics appear fewer times, or not at all.
They're between a rock and a hard place, because it doesn't take a genius game dev to recognize ESO's combat mechanics and systems are deeply flawed, but it's been part of the game for so long now that too much of the DPS playerbase is conditioned to defend it, despite the prevalence of fake tanks/healers and now, it would seem, people being happy to see their PUG has fake tanks and healers. That's clearly a sign that the system is broken.
I don't enjoy DPS roles in multiplayer games. I always play support/healer roles. Luckily, I have been able to adjust well so far by switching to a focus on buffing, debuffing, and throwing down a bunch of AOE to help with DPS in normal dungeons. I use Spell Power Cure though (haven't been brave enough to attempt trials yet to farm Olorime) which relies on over-healing, so I do fear the day when someone snaps at me for all the Regeneration spam instead of Jabs spam
Good post ty agreed0 -
Lintashi✭✭✭✭✭My main is healer, and yes, I heard many times tank and 3dds for x dungeon". I, myself, do mostly pugs, and act as needed in current situation: if a group are going good, and noone has 10k hp or dying from mobs looking at them, I do buffs, debuffs, damage and only occasional heal. If low level archer is trying to hide behind my back, or runs screaming into side tunnels to die from single mob, then I concentrate on healing. There are many "special snowflakes" among tanks lately. If damage dealers do not do "desired" dps on first trash mobs, many tanks leave instantly. They do not care about others, or just that players might be still learning. I always stay, and normally, we still finish the dungeon, just a bit slower. Some people even expect tank to do quarter of total damage. This should be expected, when you go with random group, people can be incredibly selfish, ignorant and entitled. In my opinion, both tank and healer roles are somewhat blurry at the moment, and many skilled high leveled players can do anything except trial content without them. I hope ZOS will make roles more defined, where healers are really needed to heal, tanks are really needed to taunt and keep the boss, and dps can concentrate on doing damage. At the same time, I can just imagine the screams, that will fill this forum, if selfheals gets nerfed, and I understand them too, as I sometimes play as dps.1 -
arun_rajputb16_ESO✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »The basic job of a healer is to heal the group.
So there's three things to consider:
1. Toxic players are gonna be toxic, and there aren't any gameplay changes ZOS can make that will make them not toxic. If its not "useless healers", it'll be stuff like "Why are you wearing Combat Physician to heal" in a normal dungeon (a real example I saw once).
2. There's more to playing a healer well than just keeping the group healed. Your friend might want to consider the difference between a healer who's doing the bare minimum (healing the group) and a healer who's providing full-fledged group support (heals, buffs, and damage). Even though they are new, practicing a rotation now that does more than heal and overheal is a good idea to prepare them for harder content.
3. Harder content, such as ZOS' DLC dungeons and trials, requires more than just the bare minimum out of support players. That's by design. If you want to effectively support your group, you have to pay attention to what support they actually need. If a group needs constant healing, by all means, heal and overheal. If they don't need constant heals, a good healer adapts and focuses more on buffs and damage while saving the big heals for when they are needed. This is, IMO anyway, far more interesting gameplay for healers than just heal spamming. If your friend intends to do harder content, its a good idea to start practicing the basics of group support now, especially for running with guild groups that really benefit from a well-played healer.
1. Agree entirely.
2. This is the problem. Why should they? I have dd's, tanks and healers. I created the different roles to do different things and keep it interesting. Sometimes I want to heal and buff. Sometimes I want to tank. And other times I just want to pump out damage. If someone wants to heal, buff, debuff and provide resource sustain, that's fine with me. I know my dd's dps is fine and if the other dps is good too, we don't have issues getting through dungeons. A healer keeping me healed and resources topped up is welcome. I can focus my rotation and not have to run around like a headless chicken.
3. I think the healing role includes, by implication, buffs and debuffs. If I started dpsing in a vet trial as my healer, I'd probably get kicked. And rightly so.
The attitude of making healers do damage will only serve to remove the role slowly, thus killing off the group content. We already have long GF queues becuase of a lack of tanks. Throw healers into that too and the dd's will never get into groups.
Seriously, as a main healer (and healer includes support like buff, debuff and resource sustain), leave my role alone. I genuinely love healing and a lot of people do.
Seriously, what is it with the dd's in this game. Dictating what gear the tanks and healers should wear. How they should play. No, focus on your own dps and let us focus on we enjoy doing.1 -
arun_rajputb16_ESO✭✭✭✭arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »There's always one.
Good for you. Whoop dee doo. The vast vast vast majority of players don't and can't do this. Great, so you choose to do it that way and fairly you don't use group finder. But most people need to.
All you're doing by making the argument is contradicting the whole point. Fine, you don't need it. Great. So then you go out and blurt how brilliant you are. Zos see these few posts and say "well some people are fine with it".
It's about being constructive.
I'm an 810 on xbox and have done pretty much all of the vet content before returning to PC last year. I have dd's, tanks and healers on that platform. Never in my life has my healer - 4 years - ever been asked to contribute towards damage. The healers are there to heal, buff, debuff and help with resource management. As a dd, I'm all for it. I love a good healer.
I believe you may have taken my point as an attack, or perhaps a personal slight - which it was not intended to be. If it came across as that, I apologize. I was only trying to provide evidence of experience to qualify my statements. I'll reiterate concisely; Healers should be working damage into their up-times, especially if they aspire to go on to vTrial progression. To the relevance of the OP, I stated that if people are looking for healers to be damage dealers only, then they should not rely on GF queues, as they will not find it there. Again, apologies if my previous post came across as anything but cordial.
Edit for clarity and removal of generalities.
Oh, my bad. I misread it... Just read it again and I took it the wrong way. I was a wee be riled up by other posts complaining about healers doing that role so thought you were on that side.
However, as a dd that does do decent damage, I do prefer a healer. It gives me the freedom to damage. I don't run a shield on my magsorc because I rely on the healer to keep me healed and that free's up a slot for a damage skill. As a healer, that's what I want from my dd's. I want them to do damage. It's a team game and when each role can focus on what they need to do, it's a lot more fun. Well, that's in my opinion anyway.0 -
DMBCML✭✭✭Chickenstein wrote: »That still only solves our personal issue here though, and I infact do have a screenshot. I'm pretty sure more will come, seeing as healing has indeed become nearly useless.
To be fair, buffing roles have never been a strong part of ESO at any time. I guess it's a side effect of classes not clearly tied to roles.
Most healers used to have bar 2 with DPS and debuff so they could rotate between the two roles. Perhaps that is what is expected because that is how it is intended to be. It's bringing expectations from other games to this one and also not learning how to play this one that screws it up for all of us because then zos lowers the game play expectations to match that of the lesser games. The proof is the fact that there are role selections in the group finder. In the beginning everyone could heal and everyone could dps. When the WoW players left WoW and came here, they demanded WoW style play and they got it. Now people really are confused because they don't know how to play the game and don't know the TES. People are also rude and nasty to other players, which is why I hated WoW.
Perhaps EOS needs to have an in-game tutorial that explains why EOS is different from all other MMOs and how they can best learn to play their characters.
The lesser defined roles are not a side effect, it's deliberate and what the community wanted as the game was being designed to be in keeping with TES lore and game play. To change that would be a terrible disservice to all of us who waited many years for this game to be developed. All because people are too lazy to learn how to play the game. The original community didn't much care for PvP. The fact that it's here is a disappointment, but it is here, and many of us don't play PvP.
We won't get started on the dungeon farming and gear drops. That's just another WoW demand that causes gear farming that we were promised would not be part of this game. There was never supposed to be better gear in the dungeons and PvP than we could craft. How did they resolve that when their feet were held to the fire? By making some of them available in the vendors for some currencies, which makes you farm for gold just the same. By having monster gear and such better than crafted gear, the economy lacks the luster it had in the beginning when this wasn't so.1
This discussion has been closed.