ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, ZENIMAX. Healer kicked for "NOT HELPING WITH DPS"

WoppaBoem · February 2020

Go PVP, heal is all a healer needs to do and its much appreciated. GL

Edziu · February 2020

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Go PVP, heal is all a healer needs to do and its much appreciated. GL

and yet this thread is about PVE if you didnt read from everyone's posts here, not a single mention of PVP until your post :v

redlink1979 · February 2020

Report -> Harassment (n add screenshot) -> Move on

Chickenstein · February 2020

Stebarnz wrote: »

In this situation there would be no attack as the person mentioned would be 'supporting' with hots, buffs, debuffs, emergency heals where needed and additional dps.

Why the attack came was just standing there spamming BoL where not needed providing nothing to the group efficiency.

Yeah well but that would require more than just renaming the role. There is not much a healer can do to buff players which they can't usually do themselves (by skill or build). As I said, ESO has never been strong on a defining "Supporter"-class as each class is supposed to be able to do everything.

Sorc · February 2020

Sephyr wrote: »

Sorc wrote: »

Chickenstein wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

That still only solves our personal issue here though, and I infact do have a screenshot. I'm pretty sure more will come, seeing as healing has indeed become nearly useless.

To be fair, buffing roles have never been a strong part of ESO at any time. I guess it's a side effect of classes not clearly tied to roles.

If they die, they blame it on the tank/healer, if they don't die, they'll blame you for not going as quick as they want.
It's a patience issue imo

This^

The last time I pugged as a healer? I was applying Debuffs+Buffs+DPS+Heals and they still weren't happy because I wasn't DPSing like a DPS. Yet if I didn't apply heals or buffs, they also were unhappy. There's no pleasing someone with an ego to high-heaven. Any moment that I encounter even a SLIGHT modicum of that behavior, I leave. I don't care if I'm guaranteed a no-death vet complete. I log on to play. Not to kowtow to toxic personalities and I'm sure most can agree with that.

I should do it and leave them to die, cause they do die without tank/healer, they just won't admit it

Morphinia · February 2020

Calm down. It's not a fault by ZOS I think.
It's poorly not a rare thing, but it's a player problem..

And I agree with you, Sorc and Sephyr..

I have a healer, too. She is not bad at all, can do Trials, too.
But some players just love to blame a healer for any issue.
A vampire fells into lava and dies? A DD runs through and wiped alone? The Healer can nothing.
The Boss didn't die within 10 seconds? The Tank/Healer is not making enough damage.
Only leaving and ignoring helps. Diskussions with player like this just make no sense..

Stebarnz · February 2020

Chickenstein wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

In this situation there would be no attack as the person mentioned would be 'supporting' with hots, buffs, debuffs, emergency heals where needed and additional dps.

Why the attack came was just standing there spamming BoL where not needed providing nothing to the group efficiency.

Yeah well but that would require more than just renaming the role. There is not much a healer can do to buff players which they can't usually do themselves (by skill or build). As I said, ESO has never been strong on a defining "Supporter"-class as each class is supposed to be able to do everything.

I know what you mean, maj courage, combat prayer, are mandatory, applying ele drain, providing shards and orbs, and dps should be plenty for any vet dungeon, more healing focussed for trials though.

1mirg · February 2020

Tank: "Nyladreas, why are not doing any DPS?"
Nyladreas: "I'm a healer, not dps"
Tank: "Either do some DPS or get kicked"
*a couple of minutes go by*
Tank: "Kick Nyladreas"
Nyladreas: "Again, i'm the healer"
Tank: "We don't need a healer"
*Nyladreas has been kicked*
Tank: "With my self heals I don't need any healer anyway"

This is how I imagine the convo went down but anyway. I agree that they need to fix the healing in this game as the self heals have gotten way too powerful. I've seen many tanks in groups pretty much demand the healer to go dps instead due to their self heals being all they needed, which usually ends with arguments and tangents to occur in the group dynamic. I do understand the need for self heals to be sufficient enough for solo play but an issue arises when you allow a player that is essentially a tank to become their own healer that'll ruin the group play dynamic.

Now Issues like self heals being powerful wouldn't be an issue if this game was just a single player game but since it's not. Then they'll need to balance around the idea of playing in a group play dynamic for content such as Dungeons and Trials and so on. They'll have to balance it so self heals for DPS and Tanks will be alot lesser then that of a healers heals to the point where you can barely sustain yourself in combat when damaged, like if you got hit by a dragons full on assault and get nearly or do infact get killed.

I will admit though, i don't play a healer in this and never will but I do understand why this is an issue. Plus it's also annoying to watch tanks just dismiss a healer and force them to go dps instead due to "them not being needed" and so on.

Sephyr · February 2020

d0e1ow wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Sorc wrote: »

Chickenstein wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

That still only solves our personal issue here though, and I infact do have a screenshot. I'm pretty sure more will come, seeing as healing has indeed become nearly useless.

To be fair, buffing roles have never been a strong part of ESO at any time. I guess it's a side effect of classes not clearly tied to roles.

If they die, they blame it on the tank/healer, if they don't die, they'll blame you for not going as quick as they want.
It's a patience issue imo

This^

The last time I pugged as a healer? I was applying Debuffs+Buffs+DPS+Heals and they still weren't happy because I wasn't DPSing like a DPS. Yet if I didn't apply heals or buffs, they also were unhappy. There's no pleasing someone with an ego to high-heaven. Any moment that I encounter even a SLIGHT modicum of that behavior, I leave. I don't care if I'm guaranteed a no-death vet complete. I log on to play. Not to kowtow to toxic personalities and I'm sure most can agree with that.

A big problem lies with the design of the game itself though. If ZOS doesn't develop content that MAKES people needing healing, then people are going to put down people who go in with the restoration staff out. Compare it to WoW where a good priest or druid is treasured and praised for their skill at keeping the party alive. That's because the game is made so that a good healer can shine, and where healers are NECESSARY.

IMO ZOS is making a huge mistake by de-valuing healers and are breeding animosity in the community. They are going to drive right off the GW2 cliff if they aren't careful. Just a game of zergy DPS, where everyone's survival comes down to dodging one shot mechanics. If I make a healer, I'm doing it because I want to heal, not because I actually want to be playing my Stamblade.

The glaring problem with that though;

It doesn't excuse using homophobic slurs within the group finder. That's not a problem that's brought on by ZoS, it's a problem brought on by the expectations of heavy-raiding PvEers and it's gotten exponentially worse. There's no excuse for that kind of language, harassment, or behavior in any setting even if the content isn't 'engaging enough' for the necessity of a healer. Period.

Brandathorbel · February 2020

1. no excuse for the toxic behaviour

2. Healing is still valid, just depends on the content. If you are running a normal non dlc dungeon with high levels, yes there is no need for healing and as a healer, i always dps - because why the hell wouldn't you if people don't need heals.

3. I suspect there is more to the story about how your friend responded. Did they ask them to dps and he refused and went off on how its not the healers role? if so, it changed the conversation. Did the others go to far, yep. Question is, was this a one sided thing or two sided (which is usually the case)

Nazmar · February 2020

It's easy enough to solve from the player level. When enough healers are tired of the crap, protest it by standing in a major city and refuse to heal in groups. We did this on the Malygos server in World of Warcraft many years ago and after about the 3rd day of no dungeons/raids and battlegrounds, the people's attitudes changed on what can be expected of a healing role. Let the ones that are complaining try it for a bit and they will come to their senses.

Synaki · February 2020

Try PVP for a more welcoming environment, PVE champs are always in a hurry which leads to this kind of rudeness.

Michaelkeir · February 2020

I'm sorry about you friend OP. There are nasty people in this game and to avoid most of that tell your friend to form her own group with a guild or friends.

Sad thing is healers aren't needed for most content. Most dps can keep themselves alive and healed and don't necessarily care for a pure healer. Most good tanks have built their builds to self heal and self sustain. I even have a tank that tanks, shields, and heals the group plus tosses orbs to the rest of the group. A healer would be pointless in most of my runs. But I'm not going to kick someone for being one. At least through wall of elements up and a dot every blue moon is just fine.

Parasaurolophus · February 2020

You can reproach players as much as you like, but the problem that complex dungeons can be closed without a heal is still relevant. And no reports will help here.

Raisin · February 2020

Edziu wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Go PVP, heal is all a healer needs to do and its much appreciated. GL

and yet this thread is about PVE if you didnt read from everyone's posts here, not a single mention of PVP until your post :v

And yet all the person did was make a friendly suggestion relevant to the topic (in a manner that directly acknowledges they know the post is about PVE) and you have an issue....?

d0e1ow · February 2020

Sephyr wrote: »

d0e1ow wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Sorc wrote: »

Chickenstein wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

That still only solves our personal issue here though, and I infact do have a screenshot. I'm pretty sure more will come, seeing as healing has indeed become nearly useless.

To be fair, buffing roles have never been a strong part of ESO at any time. I guess it's a side effect of classes not clearly tied to roles.

If they die, they blame it on the tank/healer, if they don't die, they'll blame you for not going as quick as they want.
It's a patience issue imo

This^

The last time I pugged as a healer? I was applying Debuffs+Buffs+DPS+Heals and they still weren't happy because I wasn't DPSing like a DPS. Yet if I didn't apply heals or buffs, they also were unhappy. There's no pleasing someone with an ego to high-heaven. Any moment that I encounter even a SLIGHT modicum of that behavior, I leave. I don't care if I'm guaranteed a no-death vet complete. I log on to play. Not to kowtow to toxic personalities and I'm sure most can agree with that.

A big problem lies with the design of the game itself though. If ZOS doesn't develop content that MAKES people needing healing, then people are going to put down people who go in with the restoration staff out. Compare it to WoW where a good priest or druid is treasured and praised for their skill at keeping the party alive. That's because the game is made so that a good healer can shine, and where healers are NECESSARY.

IMO ZOS is making a huge mistake by de-valuing healers and are breeding animosity in the community. They are going to drive right off the GW2 cliff if they aren't careful. Just a game of zergy DPS, where everyone's survival comes down to dodging one shot mechanics. If I make a healer, I'm doing it because I want to heal, not because I actually want to be playing my Stamblade.

The glaring problem with that though;

It doesn't excuse using homophobic slurs within the group finder. That's not a problem that's brought on by ZoS, it's a problem brought on by the expectations of heavy-raiding PvEers and it's gotten exponentially worse. There's no excuse for that kind of language, harassment, or behavior in any setting even if the content isn't 'engaging enough' for the necessity of a healer. Period.

Oh, yeah, totally. There is a word for people who act like that towards others: freaks. They are creepy little freaks.

Sorc · February 2020

Sephyr wrote: »

d0e1ow wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Sorc wrote: »

Chickenstein wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

That still only solves our personal issue here though, and I infact do have a screenshot. I'm pretty sure more will come, seeing as healing has indeed become nearly useless.

To be fair, buffing roles have never been a strong part of ESO at any time. I guess it's a side effect of classes not clearly tied to roles.

If they die, they blame it on the tank/healer, if they don't die, they'll blame you for not going as quick as they want.
It's a patience issue imo

This^

The last time I pugged as a healer? I was applying Debuffs+Buffs+DPS+Heals and they still weren't happy because I wasn't DPSing like a DPS. Yet if I didn't apply heals or buffs, they also were unhappy. There's no pleasing someone with an ego to high-heaven. Any moment that I encounter even a SLIGHT modicum of that behavior, I leave. I don't care if I'm guaranteed a no-death vet complete. I log on to play. Not to kowtow to toxic personalities and I'm sure most can agree with that.

A big problem lies with the design of the game itself though. If ZOS doesn't develop content that MAKES people needing healing, then people are going to put down people who go in with the restoration staff out. Compare it to WoW where a good priest or druid is treasured and praised for their skill at keeping the party alive. That's because the game is made so that a good healer can shine, and where healers are NECESSARY.

IMO ZOS is making a huge mistake by de-valuing healers and are breeding animosity in the community. They are going to drive right off the GW2 cliff if they aren't careful. Just a game of zergy DPS, where everyone's survival comes down to dodging one shot mechanics. If I make a healer, I'm doing it because I want to heal, not because I actually want to be playing my Stamblade.

The glaring problem with that though;

It doesn't excuse using homophobic slurs within the group finder. That's not a problem that's brought on by ZoS, it's a problem brought on by the expectations of heavy-raiding PvEers and it's gotten exponentially worse. There's no excuse for that kind of language, harassment, or behavior in any setting even if the content isn't 'engaging enough' for the necessity of a healer. Period.

100% Agree and unfortunatly very common, that's why it should be reported!

agingerinohio · February 2020

Lol I find it hilarious when people try to tell me to dps more with my full support tanks and healer. Like excuse me your dps is so low you need help even with all of my buffs and debuffs going out.

LadySinflower · February 2020

I agree with everyone telling the OP to report these losers, but I doubt it will have the desired effect. Even If ZOS decides to contact them to correct the behavior, I suspect that they won't feel the least bit apologetic for it. Instead I imagine that they will feel indignant and slighted by ZOS for taking the complainer's side. They believe that their way is the right way and any contradiction of their way is an insult. I obviously don't know these people and could be wrong, but if they feel strongly enough about it to cuss and kick a player from a dungeon, no slap on the hand from ZOS will change their belief or their behavior.

oddbasket · February 2020

The real dps who can pull their own weight will never ask the healer to dps. Having the healer buff their dps is much more resource efficient for the healer and effective than doing double duty dpsing and healing.

The terrible dps however who can barely pump out enough to justify the role are usually the ones who demands a healer to dps since their dps is too low and the run is slow or tedious, and still expect healing and resource synergies from a healer's resource pool.

If you're a good dps and don't need a healer, then whatever the healer does or don't won't matter. You can't use it as an excuse to demand a healer to perform your role for you.

Edziu · February 2020

Raisin wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Go PVP, heal is all a healer needs to do and its much appreciated. GL

and yet this thread is about PVE if you didnt read from everyone's posts here, not a single mention of PVP until your post :v

And yet all the person did was make a friendly suggestion relevant to the topic (in a manner that directly acknowledges they know the post is about PVE) and you have an issue....?

as idk...PVP and PVE are with different rules?
if someone know atleast a bit he would know difference between PVE and PVP roles
like in PVE healer is more for buffing team than healing while in PVP is more for healing
DD's in PVE are fur pure most efficient dps in every possible costs of surviavability to have it on minimum minimum to just survive to get the best dps while on PVP we dont put everything on pure DPS, we put much more defense instead of minimum and we target for burst combos in time to time for kills isntead dealing full stable dps like in PVE

so stating single different opinion from PVP in PVE reletad problem is pretty invalid as I wrote....both game modes ahve different ules of play even if this is same game

it was like this thread just about apples...as someone got kicked for being unripe/green (when it wasnt matter much in group) apple in ripe red apples and someone started to giving opinion about oranges in apple thread

TwiceBornStar · February 2020

First of all, this has nothing to do with Zenimax Online, but everything to do with the attitude of those people you were playing with.

You could try a few guilds or post on the Looking For Group Forum until you've found yourself a couple of laid-back, kind or maybe more adult people with whom you can do these Dungeons and Trials with at your own pace. It's not exactly rocket-science. A balanced group in blue/purple gear can still complete a Trial.

When I read an ''elite'' reaction like ''You have zero DPS!'' (How would you know? Can you measure it?) or ''Uninstall the game!'' (Why would you tell an active subscriber and financial supporter of the game you ''love'' to leave?) or ''This game isn't for you!'' (I'm fairly certain it is, I'm a huge fan of ESO, and played these kinds of games before you were born!) I just laugh and select ignore one more time, even when it's directed at someone else.

Look, I'm not going to pretend I'm completely innocent. I *may* jump your target sometimes, and I *may* loot that chest right before you do sometimes, but that's nothing personal. And of course it happens to me and everyone else all the time. (Never forget that!) I just want to have fun while I'm online, and trust me on this one, most people here who play this game feel the same way. It's a game.

So remember: Ignore. It's your best friend when dealing with S'wits!

iiYuki · February 2020

I've played for years and have NEVER encountered someone being kicked for this. Its hardly a prevalent issue. QQing about someone else getting wronged in-game is pointless. He should have reported or blocked them and moved on.

Raisin · February 2020

Edziu wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Go PVP, heal is all a healer needs to do and its much appreciated. GL

and yet this thread is about PVE if you didnt read from everyone's posts here, not a single mention of PVP until your post :v

And yet all the person did was make a friendly suggestion relevant to the topic (in a manner that directly acknowledges they know the post is about PVE) and you have an issue....?

as idk...PVP and PVE are with different rules?
if someone know atleast a bit he would know difference between PVE and PVP roles
like in PVE healer is more for buffing team than healing while in PVP is more for healing
DD's in PVE are fur pure most efficient dps in every possible costs of surviavability to have it on minimum minimum to just survive to get the best dps while on PVP we dont put everything on pure DPS, we put much more defense instead of minimum and we target for burst combos in time to time for kills isntead dealing full stable dps like in PVE

so stating single different opinion from PVP in PVE reletad problem is pretty invalid as I wrote....both game modes ahve different ules of play even if this is same game

it was like this thread just about apples...as someone got kicked for being unripe/green (when it wasnt matter much in group) apple in ripe red apples and someone started to giving opinion about oranges in apple thread

Right well. It may just been an issue with the translation software you're using for English then. What the guy said made perfect sense, and what you're saying doesn't make sense not is it very relevant. Sorry.

Edziu · February 2020

Raisin wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Go PVP, heal is all a healer needs to do and its much appreciated. GL

and yet this thread is about PVE if you didnt read from everyone's posts here, not a single mention of PVP until your post :v

And yet all the person did was make a friendly suggestion relevant to the topic (in a manner that directly acknowledges they know the post is about PVE) and you have an issue....?

as idk...PVP and PVE are with different rules?
if someone know atleast a bit he would know difference between PVE and PVP roles
like in PVE healer is more for buffing team than healing while in PVP is more for healing
DD's in PVE are fur pure most efficient dps in every possible costs of surviavability to have it on minimum minimum to just survive to get the best dps while on PVP we dont put everything on pure DPS, we put much more defense instead of minimum and we target for burst combos in time to time for kills isntead dealing full stable dps like in PVE

so stating single different opinion from PVP in PVE reletad problem is pretty invalid as I wrote....both game modes ahve different ules of play even if this is same game

it was like this thread just about apples...as someone got kicked for being unripe/green (when it wasnt matter much in group) apple in ripe red apples and someone started to giving opinion about oranges in apple thread

Right well. It may just been an issue with the translation software you're using for English then. What the guy said made perfect sense, and what you're saying doesn't make sense not is it very relevant. Sorry.

so what sense you see in comparing PVP needs to PVE mechanics, problems?

Joxer61 · February 2020

Sadly when playing with 12 year old's you get this. But also, that is the way of an MMO and pugging.....fake tanks/heals...skipping content....lazy weak bad habits that mar every MMO ever and all you can do is screenshot/report and move on. Or....don't play. Which is extreme and especially since you had a friend and a new player but hey...that's half a dungeon que so just go again!!
It sucks, but it wont change...human nature.

Also...try "No habla ingles"

Raisin · February 2020

Edziu wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Go PVP, heal is all a healer needs to do and its much appreciated. GL

and yet this thread is about PVE if you didnt read from everyone's posts here, not a single mention of PVP until your post :v

And yet all the person did was make a friendly suggestion relevant to the topic (in a manner that directly acknowledges they know the post is about PVE) and you have an issue....?

as idk...PVP and PVE are with different rules?
if someone know atleast a bit he would know difference between PVE and PVP roles
like in PVE healer is more for buffing team than healing while in PVP is more for healing
DD's in PVE are fur pure most efficient dps in every possible costs of surviavability to have it on minimum minimum to just survive to get the best dps while on PVP we dont put everything on pure DPS, we put much more defense instead of minimum and we target for burst combos in time to time for kills isntead dealing full stable dps like in PVE

so stating single different opinion from PVP in PVE reletad problem is pretty invalid as I wrote....both game modes ahve different ules of play even if this is same game

it was like this thread just about apples...as someone got kicked for being unripe/green (when it wasnt matter much in group) apple in ripe red apples and someone started to giving opinion about oranges in apple thread

Right well. It may just been an issue with the translation software you're using for English then. What the guy said made perfect sense, and what you're saying doesn't make sense not is it very relevant. Sorry.

so what sense you see in comparing PVP needs to PVE mechanics, problems?

It doesn't have anything to do with mechanics?
OPs friend wants to do healing that's focused on raw healing and feeling like a proper healer. Dude commented saying that that's what you do as a healer in PVP and it thus might be interesting for OPs friend. Sure, maybe the friend doesnt wanna PVP but like.... It was just a light-hearted suggestion, and maybe it would actually appeal to them.
Not really sure how to even explain why this makes perfect sense. I mean it's just two logically connected pieces of conversation.

Brandathorbel · February 2020

I find it amazing that most of you believe what the op has wrote is 100% accurate when its obviously only one side of the story.

Sorc · February 2020

Also...try "No habla ingles"

XD you made my day!

Aeorath · February 2020

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

You should have taken a screenshot and reported them for harassment. Such trash should not be part of the ESO community.

Healer's role is to heal and apply buffs, not contribute to DPS. If the DDs dps sucked, blaming the healer is not an excuse.

It's hard to imagine how bad their DPS was since they were asking the healer to help with it...