ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, ZENIMAX. Healer kicked for "NOT HELPING WITH DPS"

L_Nici

Sounds like WoW Refugees take over and bring their toxicity with them.

BejaProphet

The simple truth is that a role’s job is to do whatever makes the group thrive, period.

For a tank and DD this is a pretty constant defined objective.

For a healer it varies wildly from group to group, from dungeon to dungeon, and even from moment to moment.

A great healer has to be smart and crazy adaptive. I don’t envy them.

shadyjane62

Thank you for reinforcing my desire to never be a healer in a group in ESO ever.

DMBCML

d0e1ow wrote: »

DMBCML wrote: »

d0e1ow wrote: »

The group will always need DPS because the goal is to kill the enemies. If the group isn't taking damage, then that means there is no need for 3rd party healing. I get that your friend wants to play a healer. They can, and should, but much of the game is balanced around DPS'ing while the need for heals are low. Again, the group can always use more DPS, but can't always use more healing.

I don't particularly like it and prefer how in games like WoW healing was a far more focused role, but it's how the game is currently balanced here. When I play my Templar in low level stuff I almost never drop a heal and stay on Destro staff the entire time.

Still, they shouldn't have been so rude to your friend. Screw those people.

This game was never intended to be another WoW. The roles were never intended to exist. If a player prefers WoW style play, then this game will never feel good to said player. We never wanted a WoW type game and after many years of development, they gave us what we wanted. It is when players come from other games and try to push their wish on this game that has caused all this trouble. Each person should learn to play the game they play and not whine to get the game maker to change the rules of the game for them. If this were a board game, we would not ask Monopoly rules to change to be more like Parcheesi. Kind of lame example, but you get the point. If you want to play Parcheesi, play Parcheesi, but don't ask the Monopoly players to use rules from Parcheesi because someone refuses to learn how to play a more complicated game of Monopoly.

Also, if the group isn't taking any damage, the group of players either learned to play the game OR the game has gotten too easy.

If the only people who played ESO were this nebulous group of OG fans who waited years for it to be developed I 100% promise you this game would be dead by now.

LOL.. it's not about that. It's about understanding the game you play and knowing why things are they way they are. It's about choosing the right game for you. If you want to play WoW, play WoW or whatever other game you want that makes you happy, but don't expect knowledgeable TES now ESO players to be unhappy because you want to muddle up ESO to be like WoW. Now, as it is, pretty much everyone is unhappy because ESO has made concessions and created "roles" in the dungeon finder and added lots of PvP. They even got rid of the Veteran levels, which was a major blow to TES players simply because people complained because they didn't understand TES. That cost time and content. They've nerfed and re-nerfed the various races and classes to suit everyone else. At some point, players need to stop asking for nerfs and start learning to play the game.

Ryath_Waylander

Edziu wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Go PVP, heal is all a healer needs to do and its much appreciated. GL

and yet this thread is about PVE if you didnt read from everyone's posts here, not a single mention of PVP until your post :v

And yet all the person did was make a friendly suggestion relevant to the topic (in a manner that directly acknowledges they know the post is about PVE) and you have an issue....?

as idk...PVP and PVE are with different rules?
if someone know atleast a bit he would know difference between PVE and PVP roles
like in PVE healer is more for buffing team than healing while in PVP is more for healing
DD's in PVE are fur pure most efficient dps in every possible costs of surviavability to have it on minimum minimum to just survive to get the best dps while on PVP we dont put everything on pure DPS, we put much more defense instead of minimum and we target for burst combos in time to time for kills isntead dealing full stable dps like in PVE

so stating single different opinion from PVP in PVE reletad problem is pretty invalid as I wrote....both game modes ahve different ules of play even if this is same game

it was like this thread just about apples...as someone got kicked for being unripe/green (when it wasnt matter much in group) apple in ripe red apples and someone started to giving opinion about oranges in apple thread

Right well. It may just been an issue with the translation software you're using for English then. What the guy said made perfect sense, and what you're saying doesn't make sense not is it very relevant. Sorry.

so what sense you see in comparing PVP needs to PVE mechanics, problems?

He's not comparing mechanics. You're being too technical. What was said was that healers are more appreciated in pvp content than they are in pve content. Nobody is splitting hairs about what skills/cp distribution and armour a healer needs for pvp. The emphasis was on appreciation of the role of the healer in pvp.

VaranisArano

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

The basic job of a healer is to heal the group.
So there's three things to consider:
1. Toxic players are gonna be toxic, and there aren't any gameplay changes ZOS can make that will make them not toxic. If its not "useless healers", it'll be stuff like "Why are you wearing Combat Physician to heal" in a normal dungeon (a real example I saw once).
2. There's more to playing a healer well than just keeping the group healed. Your friend might want to consider the difference between a healer who's doing the bare minimum (healing the group) and a healer who's providing full-fledged group support (heals, buffs, and damage). Even though they are new, practicing a rotation now that does more than heal and overheal is a good idea to prepare them for harder content.
3. Harder content, such as ZOS' DLC dungeons and trials, requires more than just the bare minimum out of support players. That's by design. If you want to effectively support your group, you have to pay attention to what support they actually need. If a group needs constant healing, by all means, heal and overheal. If they don't need constant heals, a good healer adapts and focuses more on buffs and damage while saving the big heals for when they are needed. This is, IMO anyway, far more interesting gameplay for healers than just heal spamming. If your friend intends to do harder content, its a good idea to start practicing the basics of group support now, especially for running with guild groups that really benefit from a well-played healer.

1. Agree entirely.
2. This is the problem. Why should they? I have dd's, tanks and healers. I created the different roles to do different things and keep it interesting. Sometimes I want to heal and buff. Sometimes I want to tank. And other times I just want to pump out damage. If someone wants to heal, buff, debuff and provide resource sustain, that's fine with me. I know my dd's dps is fine and if the other dps is good too, we don't have issues getting through dungeons. A healer keeping me healed and resources topped up is welcome. I can focus my rotation and not have to run around like a headless chicken.
3. I think the healing role includes, by implication, buffs and debuffs. If I started dpsing in a vet trial as my healer, I'd probably get kicked. And rightly so.

The attitude of making healers do damage will only serve to remove the role slowly, thus killing off the group content. We already have long GF queues becuase of a lack of tanks. Throw healers into that too and the dd's will never get into groups.

Seriously, as a main healer (and healer includes support like buff, debuff and resource sustain), leave my role alone. I genuinely love healing and a lot of people do.

Seriously, what is it with the dd's in this game. Dictating what gear the tanks and healers should wear. How they should play. No, focus on your own dps and let us focus on we enjoy doing.

For what its worth, I mainly play a tank. Healer second, while my DDs are pretty neglected all things considered. You seem to have made some assumptions about my goals here.

As for 2 and 3: How is it a problem that you should adjust the support you are giving to what your group needs?

That's more or less what I'm getting at here. Good support players, whether tank or healer, pay attention to their group and tailor their support to what the group needs.

The OP wants their friend to just be able to heal in dungeons and be a good healer for doing just healing. If their group needs constant healing, then by all means, heal and overheal. IME, that's pretty rare outside of newbies and certain mechanics. There's usually plenty of time for buffs and debuffs, which is exactly why those are an "expected" part of the role for most healers in group content.

Speaking specifically of dungeons, its also a lot more common to have situations where a group benefits from buffs and debuffs but doesn't need constant heals. That leaves the healer or tank with some time on their hands. A good support player recognizes when that's the case and mixes in more DPS to their rotation while still buffing, debuffing, and healing/tanking as needed. How is that a problem?

The way I see it, a good support player supports the group in the ways they are needed. A healer who tries to be "I'm a healer so I only need to heal" as the OP desires is certainly doing the bare minimum of their role, but still might not be actually supporting the group in an effective manner.

Nurable

DMBCML wrote: »

d0e1ow wrote: »

DMBCML wrote: »

d0e1ow wrote: »

The group will always need DPS because the goal is to kill the enemies. If the group isn't taking damage, then that means there is no need for 3rd party healing. I get that your friend wants to play a healer. They can, and should, but much of the game is balanced around DPS'ing while the need for heals are low. Again, the group can always use more DPS, but can't always use more healing.

I don't particularly like it and prefer how in games like WoW healing was a far more focused role, but it's how the game is currently balanced here. When I play my Templar in low level stuff I almost never drop a heal and stay on Destro staff the entire time.

Still, they shouldn't have been so rude to your friend. Screw those people.

This game was never intended to be another WoW. The roles were never intended to exist. If a player prefers WoW style play, then this game will never feel good to said player. We never wanted a WoW type game and after many years of development, they gave us what we wanted. It is when players come from other games and try to push their wish on this game that has caused all this trouble. Each person should learn to play the game they play and not whine to get the game maker to change the rules of the game for them. If this were a board game, we would not ask Monopoly rules to change to be more like Parcheesi. Kind of lame example, but you get the point. If you want to play Parcheesi, play Parcheesi, but don't ask the Monopoly players to use rules from Parcheesi because someone refuses to learn how to play a more complicated game of Monopoly.

Also, if the group isn't taking any damage, the group of players either learned to play the game OR the game has gotten too easy.

If the only people who played ESO were this nebulous group of OG fans who waited years for it to be developed I 100% promise you this game would be dead by now.

LOL.. it's not about that. It's about understanding the game you play and knowing why things are they way they are. It's about choosing the right game for you. If you want to play WoW, play WoW or whatever other game you want that makes you happy, but don't expect knowledgeable TES now ESO players to be unhappy because you want to muddle up ESO to be like WoW. Now, as it is, pretty much everyone is unhappy because ESO has made concessions and created "roles" in the dungeon finder and added lots of PvP. They even got rid of the Veteran levels, which was a major blow to TES players simply because people complained because they didn't understand TES. That cost time and content. They've nerfed and re-nerfed the various races and classes to suit everyone else. At some point, players need to stop asking for nerfs and start learning to play the game.

Dude, I think you're completely conflating two different games.

PvP was always a major part of this game. It was released at the very beginning was was considered the end game - and that's from someone that rarely plays PvP

There absolutely were roles at the beginning.

The game was never meant to be the next The Elder Scrolls chapter.

The switch from Vet ranks to CP was an excellent one. The grind per character was horrible.

The Elder Scrolls is the framework for the storyline and lore. The rest is just the mechanics of making an MMO.

You're inbuing complete falsehoods onto this game. And all things evolve to improve. Having played this game to death since beta, it has improved mostly, from where it started.

This game is nothing like WoW and nor is it moving in that direction. This thread is complete proof of that.

DMBCML

LadySinflower wrote: »

I agree with everyone telling the OP to report these losers, but I doubt it will have the desired effect. Even If ZOS decides to contact them to correct the behavior, I suspect that they won't feel the least bit apologetic for it. Instead I imagine that they will feel indignant and slighted by ZOS for taking the complainer's side. They believe that their way is the right way and any contradiction of their way is an insult. I obviously don't know these people and could be wrong, but if they feel strongly enough about it to cuss and kick a player from a dungeon, no slap on the hand from ZOS will change their belief or their behavior.

But if they get enough time off they might choose to go somewhere else to play leaving the rest of us to enjoy the game.

mgk

healers are useless in 4 man content, self heal is so overpowered. If no mecanic require 2 man, all dungeon are soloable (in vet ofc) LOL

d0e1ow

DMBCML wrote: »

d0e1ow wrote: »

DMBCML wrote: »

d0e1ow wrote: »

The group will always need DPS because the goal is to kill the enemies. If the group isn't taking damage, then that means there is no need for 3rd party healing. I get that your friend wants to play a healer. They can, and should, but much of the game is balanced around DPS'ing while the need for heals are low. Again, the group can always use more DPS, but can't always use more healing.

I don't particularly like it and prefer how in games like WoW healing was a far more focused role, but it's how the game is currently balanced here. When I play my Templar in low level stuff I almost never drop a heal and stay on Destro staff the entire time.

Still, they shouldn't have been so rude to your friend. Screw those people.

This game was never intended to be another WoW. The roles were never intended to exist. If a player prefers WoW style play, then this game will never feel good to said player. We never wanted a WoW type game and after many years of development, they gave us what we wanted. It is when players come from other games and try to push their wish on this game that has caused all this trouble. Each person should learn to play the game they play and not whine to get the game maker to change the rules of the game for them. If this were a board game, we would not ask Monopoly rules to change to be more like Parcheesi. Kind of lame example, but you get the point. If you want to play Parcheesi, play Parcheesi, but don't ask the Monopoly players to use rules from Parcheesi because someone refuses to learn how to play a more complicated game of Monopoly.

Also, if the group isn't taking any damage, the group of players either learned to play the game OR the game has gotten too easy.

If the only people who played ESO were this nebulous group of OG fans who waited years for it to be developed I 100% promise you this game would be dead by now.

LOL.. it's not about that. It's about understanding the game you play and knowing why things are they way they are. It's about choosing the right game for you. If you want to play WoW, play WoW or whatever other game you want that makes you happy, but don't expect knowledgeable TES now ESO players to be unhappy because you want to muddle up ESO to be like WoW. Now, as it is, pretty much everyone is unhappy because ESO has made concessions and created "roles" in the dungeon finder and added lots of PvP. They even got rid of the Veteran levels, which was a major blow to TES players simply because people complained because they didn't understand TES. That cost time and content. They've nerfed and re-nerfed the various races and classes to suit everyone else. At some point, players need to stop asking for nerfs and start learning to play the game.

The game is an MMO, not a single player TES game. Cyrodiil was in the game at launch and was touted as a huge part of the experience, that means PVP was showcased as being a huge part of the game. You're acting like OP and myself saying that we think there should be balance with healers in mind means we're not "actually" ESO players. My money spends the same as yours, dude. lol

What does Vet levels have to do with "understanding TES"? What does "understanding TES" even mean? They re-balance the game because that's what every single online game does. It's part of the iterative nature of game design. Nothing stays the same forever.

Also, here you go: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/535

From before the game even came out, a blog post from the devs where they clearly list out the three roles: DPS, tank, healer, with the caveat that the game will provide you with some flexibility. So this idea that it's the fault of WoW players or something that there are "roles" in the game is clearly false.

Ramber

Nyladreas wrote: »

WHAT THE *** ZENIMAX. YOU'VE MADE HEALERS SO OBSOLETE THAT NOW TOXIC ELITES DEMAND HEALERS TO SPAM JABS AND HAVE OTHER FORM OF CONTRIBUTION TO THE GROUP DPS.

I have just witnessed a close friend of mine get called out, insulted, disrespected and kicked from a dungeon, on their Templar, for (quote) "BEING AN INCONSIDERATE D-BAG, WASTING EVERYONE'S TIME BY BEING USELESS SPAMMING HEALS INSTEAD OF JABS. GO UNINSTALL OR GO PLAY A DIFFERENT GAME IF YOU WANT TO BE A LITTTLE GAY HEALSPAMMING Princess"

First off, my friend is new to the game, and secondly, my friend wants to be a healer and HEAL. Why should anybody force anyone to do a role they had not chosen to perform!? They haven't picked a DPS role for a reason! And third: What even was that cursing about ???

Look what you've done, Zenimax!!!

FOR ***'S SAKE!!! YOU'VE RUINED PVE HEALING TO THE POINT NEWBIES HAVE TO PUT UP WITH THIS *** ATTITUDE. YOU'VE RUINED HEALING TO THE POINTS ITS LITERALLY OBSOLETE. FIX IT!!!!!!!

I'M SO DONE.... /rant over

As i stated in another post healers and tank are only not needed once you have reached a certain level of familiarity with the mechanics of the game. At lower levels, while people are learning, they need the support of tanks and healers.

vamp_emily

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

I've been searching and searching and searching for one. I found decent ones but most of them don't respond to dungeon requests. It's always the same few, including me, that are up for it.

Guild membership is all about guild traders.

I've created a guild that won't have a trader. So people that want to join will only join because it's for doing group content.

I understand what you are saying. I created a guild a while back ( Friendly Dungeon Runners ) because I also had issues trying to do dungeons. It was an awesome guild for awhile but as time went by many of the members started getting wore out from doing dungeons and trials and some players took a break from the game. It became a friendly ghost town.

If you have a hard time finding one.. I would definitely keep promoting your guild because I know there are many people out there that have the same issue as the OP.

Yubarius

IMO players being a-holes doesn't constitute blaming zeni. Just report and move on.

svendf

GoodFella146 wrote: »

The problem of course is that they are fundamentally right in their assessment that being a healer is useless is almost all content, and certainly in the Blessed Crucible.

When I pug something and see a person healing I think to myself "lol" but as the content is so easy anyway, I'm not going to be mean to them for trying to do what they think is best as there's no chance we're going to fail anyway, so clearly they are just being rude.

A healer have all the right to go into whatever dungeon he/she wants to join aslong they are able to contribute.

For some it seems hard to understand that even healers or tanks starts somewhere, continue and return again.

What we should get away from is these post of what is needed or not needed, as they are excluding
.

Taemiru

mgk wrote: »

healers are useless in 4 man content, self heal is so overpowered. If no mecanic require 2 man, all dungeon are soloable (in vet ofc) LOL

While you don't need healers in 4 man content its nice to play with a good one in harder dungeons/arenas.

Lucious90

Ive played a dedicated pve healer for a long time..... Ive actually have contributed to damage when everyone is topped off or contributing to the last 5% of health.

Ive found in ESO you have a little more leeway to include damage abilities that either augment healing or providing buffs and synergies for your group. Understand that ESO actually blurs the triune class role fairly well from what Ive seen

Karda222

I just feel like the people who kicked you were ***....

Ringing_Nirnroot

With pugging comes risks, sorry that happened to your friend

DMBCML

Nanfoodle wrote: »

One of the big reasons I picked ESO is it is a trinity MMO. I getting worried with the fact that healers are being needed less and less. Even tanks are being counted out of vet dungeon runs now, with 4 DPS doing better then having heals and tanks. Zen needs to start to balance things and make these roles relevant again. This is not a small thing that going on with the community. FIX THIS PLS!!!!!!

That's what was intended. No tank role was needed. But the healer does DPS too. I do when I'm not healing. Every build has available self heals. No one was to rely completely on a tank or a healer class for heals.

Anotherone773

The environment is so toxic in this game, players openly condone and encourage this behavior now. You know OP, if you run dungeons with your friend, cant be kicked. Need a majority vote to kick and in a 4 player dungeon that means every one but the player being kicked. So just run with your friend, when they start whining and crying about the way one of you is playing, slow down, loot some containers, check your inventory a few times, have a little in group chat. The more they complain the slower you go.

Worst case scenario the leave and you find a new player for the group. Best case scenario they are uber awesome at this game because they never leave their mom's basement and they carry you and your friend all the way through the dungeon while you chat and have social hour. Works great at giving toxic elitists a dose of their own medicine.

DMBCML

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

DMBCML wrote: »

Sorc wrote: »

I was asked to do DPS with my tank...
And about the attitude, I agree with @gatekeeper13. Report them or they will do it to others.

That is how the game was supposed to function. There was not to be a tank role. No one was supposed to have a specific role and we didn't in the beginning. Basically everyone did dps and healed what they could. There was no four person team. It was all pile on the monster and someone heal now and then. If you died, so what, get up and fight some more.

I see you keep saying this, but that isn't even remotely true. The game is based around the trinity and was at launch as well. You couldn't do Fungral Grotto at like level 12 or whatever it was without somebody to take damage, heal and do damage. Yes things have changed to a point as they got rid of Vet Ranks and what not.

The problem isn't that it's designed to be no healers/tanks it's the non DLC content doesn't need them cause they have been nerfed into the ground. Nobody is going into the new DLC dungeons with 4 dps and just using self heals. This OP though is more about just toxic AHats being AHats.

I've noticed that too... he keeps saying that and it's completely false.

He is not wrong. There was not to be a tank function. Every build has self heals ability. The healing Templar also can do DPS, mine does. Mostly heals, but some DPS. I was there at beta too and I remember.

Joy_Division

What happened to your friend sucks an there is no excuse for that kind of behavior.

My advice is not to get worked over with it. It's hard, I know, but this sort of thing happens not because ZOS mnakes mistake but some people are just jerks. It's like getting cut-off while driving. Road rage isn't going to help matters and only hurts the victim.

As far as not needing healers, this is sort of ZOS's fault but not entirely. The main problem here is much of the content in the game was designed years ago when we had very weak characters. For a good 80% of the content in the entire game, a tank and healer are not necessary.

The group finder was nice in the beginning of the game when every single dungeon needed a healer and tank. Now a days, it's either you group up for an easy dungeon that doesn't need either or the content is new, difficult, and is wipe city if trying to PuG it. Unfortunately, it's kind of a lose lose situation if you aren;t keen on DPSing.

svendf

Ramber wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

WHAT THE *** ZENIMAX. YOU'VE MADE HEALERS SO OBSOLETE THAT NOW TOXIC ELITES DEMAND HEALERS TO SPAM JABS AND HAVE OTHER FORM OF CONTRIBUTION TO THE GROUP DPS.

I have just witnessed a close friend of mine get called out, insulted, disrespected and kicked from a dungeon, on their Templar, for (quote) "BEING AN INCONSIDERATE D-BAG, WASTING EVERYONE'S TIME BY BEING USELESS SPAMMING HEALS INSTEAD OF JABS. GO UNINSTALL OR GO PLAY A DIFFERENT GAME IF YOU WANT TO BE A LITTTLE GAY HEALSPAMMING Princess"

First off, my friend is new to the game, and secondly, my friend wants to be a healer and HEAL. Why should anybody force anyone to do a role they had not chosen to perform!? They haven't picked a DPS role for a reason! And third: What even was that cursing about ???

Look what you've done, Zenimax!!!

FOR ***'S SAKE!!! YOU'VE RUINED PVE HEALING TO THE POINT NEWBIES HAVE TO PUT UP WITH THIS *** ATTITUDE. YOU'VE RUINED HEALING TO THE POINTS ITS LITERALLY OBSOLETE. FIX IT!!!!!!!

I'M SO DONE.... /rant over

As i stated in another post healers and tank are only not needed once you have reached a certain level of familiarity with the mechanics of the game. At lower levels, while people are learning, they need the support of tanks and healers.

There is really no need for post telling people what is needed at "what certain level of familiarity". or not. There is enough of those excluding post

barney2525

Lamiai wrote: »

I dunno mate, if a game is making you this mad then maybe take a time out or something, not worth the mental anguish.

Seems to me he's got a hellova point.

The whole Point of having separate roles is because they are Supposed to be Needed. Now we got jakkazzes that can't deal with a Healer in the group? WTF?

Seems to me the ones who need to Chill are the dufus-es who can't handle having a legitimate Healer in the group.

IMHO

Warndihr

I cant, in my world, see how this problem lands on Z . Z made a fantastic job with enabling healers to do some soloing by giving them some fighting skills. Taking away a healers DD abilities would probably be a very bad decision, so don't ask for that.

Second, That some people are dum heads and idiots, is known and, thank god, not that common. Tell your friend to wipe it off and find another group.

INHUMANENATION

Democracy wins! healers lose. Catch it all unfold next time on. . .

Survivor: ESO

Casul

I have seen this from healers in the past.

There are plenty of spots during fights where you have no real incoming mechanic damage. Thus it is time to start contributing to DPS instead of reapplying grand healing prematurely, pushing an orb after everyone is on cooldown, etc.

I too have a new friend who has started ESO coming from FF, I told him blatantly. Pure healers are not needed for the vast majority of the content due to cross healing. If you want to run healer as a pure healing then do trials. There is nothing more irritating then going through a dungeon with a healer who has 12 healing abilities when only 3 are needed for the vast majority of normal content (vet has heavier healing requirements I will add, but you indicated you friend was new so he likely is just scraping the surface.)

I will add I expect the same from tanks. Nothing worse then a tank who taunt > block > repeat until dead.

Now if you made it this far I salute you for being able to read another perspective on the issue. Here is where I will agree with you that the behavior of the other group members was not the right way to handle it. They should have expressed that group DPS can be increased during light pressure moments of the fights, which in turn allows the boss to die faster and with less mechanics to worry about. This is something many people, especially new players coming from more conventional MMOs, fail to recognize with ESO.

Naftal

Sounds like they need to make the content harder so a full healer has a role.

Still think the default activity finder group composition should be one support and three dps.

Sephyr

Anotherone773 wrote: »

The environment is so toxic in this game, players openly condone and encourage this behavior now. You know OP, if you run dungeons with your friend, cant be kicked. Need a majority vote to kick and in a 4 player dungeon that means every one but the player being kicked. So just run with your friend, when they start whining and crying about the way one of you is playing, slow down, loot some containers, check your inventory a few times, have a little in group chat. The more they complain the more they complain the slower you go.

Worst case scenario the leave and you find a new player for the group. Best case scenario they are uber awesome at this game because they never leave their mom's basement and they carry you and your friend all the way through the dungeon while you chat and have social hour. Works great at giving toxic elitists a dose of their own medicine.

I will say this; while most toxicity I've encountered is within the group finder and the forums, aside from a couple of other games this is one of the least toxic long term. Regardless of what people 'expect' out of a group? These things shouldn't be happening and they aren't exactly happening because the content is easier now. It's been happening for years, it's just not been apparent as much as it is now. Hence why I do group content with friends and guilds because despite what people say here on the forum; not every group plays the same. If I wanted to have high expectations of me, I'd join a leaderboard raiding guild. Not PUGing in the group finder. Since that ISN'T the case, I've opted to run with people that are more easily adaptable and refreshing to actually coordinate with.

Darkenarlol

i'm kicking healers from my 4 man DLC achieve static if they

can't bring at least 20k ST dps in encounters that are

not heal intensive.


because if you are just standing there and tossing

unneded heals...you are a dead weight and not helping

your group