The sewers are dead again, and i'm sad.

doomette · February 2020

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

vestahls wrote: »

I_am_Groot wrote: »

Personally I think being on edge knowing that someone could be lurking behind the next corner is what makes it so great, you can never get that from a PvE game because everything is scripted and predictable and believe me, I'm terrible when it comes to PvP. So stop being a bunch of milk drinkers and get in the sewers....that's where you'll find me tonight after work.
~ Cheers

Listen. I don't want to be in constant stress while playing a video game. I get constant stress at work. Personally I paid money for this thing to de-stress

It's not really stress, it's anticipation. At any time you could get into a battle and then you're gambling are you going to win and make more tel var or is this the losing battle and you lose half and bank and start again.

You can’t tell someone else what does and does not stress them, why in blazes do you think you can?

But I do agree with you that the main quest line is excellent. It’s much bleaker (obviously) than pretty much anything else in the game, and the characters are easy to get attached to. The eleven gardens district and the last part, oof.

FierceSam · February 2020

I_am_Groot wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

I would love to go back in Sewers but all those who kill you from stealth just ruin the fun for me.

Also, I d love to see a pve only version. Its the most interesting and atmospheric place to explore IMHO but it is a pain to put so much effort in reaching a specific place, only to be ganked by other players and rez back at the base.

vestahls wrote: »

I don't know, OP, I personally love going in there outside of PVP events, early in the morning, so that I can farm in peace without getting gank'd.

Personally I think being on edge knowing that someone could be lurking behind the next corner is what makes it so great, you can never get that from a PvE game because everything is scripted and predictable and believe me, I'm terrible when it comes to PvP. So stop being a bunch of milk drinkers and get in the sewers....that's where you'll find me tonight after work.
~ Cheers

Way to attract and retain new players bud... enjoy the emptiness around you.

JadonSky · February 2020

I always like IC. Something about battling with a bunch of MOBs around made it feel like a real war. Having to dodge bosses, pull bosses into groups, running around a full war torn city. It really is an awesome DLC i'm not sure what would pull player to it though. I always wished they would of made IC part of the main cyrodiil map, opening the bridges that lead to the city and adding certerin perks like home keeps or scrolls give you based on who owns the full city. Maybe like a AP boost that increases based on how many distracts your faction holds or by owning all of IC it opens easy transit to get you across the map.

Dusk_Coven · February 2020

BackStabeth wrote: »

You are never going to entice people who do not want to engage in the toxic behavior inherent in PvP, to do so. It's really sad, most people who engage in PvP are not toxic, it's really just a few people. If there were a way to remove those who give PvP a bad name then I suspect more people would PvP.

Yes there is but everyone laughed it off when FO76 introduced it -- Private instances.
Play with likeminded guilds and people, keep each other accountable.

More and more it makes sense.
Want to kill all the NPCs in Auridon? Go make your own private instance.
Want to ERP with your guild naked in the middle of town? Go make your own private instance.
Want the IC Sewer without people camped at your door? Make a private instance and invite people who aren't door gankers.

markulrich1966 · February 2020

I skipped the sewers after the discouraging experience last time of people exploiting the entrance platform bug, waiting at the elevated entrance door bombing them down.

So this time I chose cyro. Apart from a quester-hunter (cp810, ganking level 20 questers without even attempting to capture the flags of cropsford), I enojed cyro much more than the sewers.

Did die often, as I used my PVE characters, and on NA most of them are just level 30-40, cp340, lacking skills. So far from optimal, but that is ok, as nevertheless the gameplay felt "fair".
You have so many options. Weak like me? Stay behind, no direct duels, instead use ballistas, join a small zerg. I actually really enjoyed it.

Very different to the frustrating experience of unfair players exploting bugs for a "manhunt" of event players.

TLDR: advanced IC players destroyed interest in playing there

Rave the Histborn · February 2020

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

vestahls wrote: »

I_am_Groot wrote: »

Personally I think being on edge knowing that someone could be lurking behind the next corner is what makes it so great, you can never get that from a PvE game because everything is scripted and predictable and believe me, I'm terrible when it comes to PvP. So stop being a bunch of milk drinkers and get in the sewers....that's where you'll find me tonight after work.
~ Cheers

Listen. I don't want to be in constant stress while playing a video game. I get constant stress at work. Personally I paid money for this thing to de-stress

It's not really stress, it's anticipation. At any time you could get into a battle and then you're gambling are you going to win and make more tel var or is this the losing battle and you lose half and bank and start again.

Except most people who would be killing NPCs in IC would not be pvpers in pvp gear and the person likely attacking them would be a ganker who would be set up for pvp. That fight would be greatly off balance with the Pvers only chance being that they suddenly had help or the ganker lagged out. Then you lose half of what you earned and bank the rest? So a worthless currency is technically only half as valuable as it worthless face value.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Wrekkedd wrote: »

Well, Midyear Mayhem came and went, now there is no incentive for people to come into the sewers other than to break free of the lag. I really enjoyed having players down there, both PvE and PvP, which is pretty much the whole design of it. How can we make that a normal thing? How about putting ANY motif drops on the bosses, like the zero legion ones from the event?

I'm primarily a PvP player, so I don't know what would drag ALL play styles to the sewers on a more regular basis. So how about you share down below, what would drive YOU to come into the sewers more often?

So i actually pvp in other games, and sometimes mess around in this one. But i dont enjoy ESO PVP all that much, when i do its usually battlegrounds but sometimes cyro. I dont enjoy mixing pvp with pve. I want to do one or the other not both at the same time and im not fond of being ganked while pveing or ganking pvers.

To answer your question to get me in the sewers more:
1) Tel Var have to be way more useful than they are. Its a lot of effort to acquire, more effort to keep, and what you can buy with them is garbage.
2) Then we have key/ key frags for vaults. Im not interested in working multiple times for the same reward. I have to obtain the reward then i have to work to use the reward. No thank you.
3) Tel var stone loss is to large especially for such a useless currency.
4) I dont want to deal with players when i am trying to pve.
5) I dont want to deal with NPCs when i am trying to pvp. ( used in a guard function is fine for NPCs)
6) In order for me to want to spend time in a zone it has to meet one of the following requirements:
- Be part of a story line i am interested in doing/completing
- Have rewards that i deem profitable.
- Be aesthetically pleasing

There are 3 zones in the game that i really dislike
- Imperial City
- Coldharbor
- Clockwork City.

1) What would you add? People always complain about tel var but realistically it's easy to acquire, easier to keep than ever, and everything you buy is useful for PVP/PVE or items that sell for lots of gold to purchase what you need.

2) What? English please?

3) If it's useless you wouldn't care about the loss. It's not. This is the main real complaint from IC, most people aren't used to the risk/reward aspect of TV gains due to it being the only place it is implemented.

4) Doesn't sound like a design flaw, sounds like a preference. I enjoy having something to do while I pvp personally

5) Again, not a design for, just a preference you then contradict

6) IC's story is one of the best/has some of the best lore in the game
- Tel Var has a 4-1 gold value. The apothecary satchels are filled with alchemy ingredients you can sell raw or turn into potions for high profits, Hakeijos are always profitable and in demand, and the skins and costumes you are able to get now sell for big profits. There's a difference between what you deem profitable and what is profitable

1) Things that are tradeable and valuable or useful. The satchel is the most useful thing in there and i can obtain its contents with 5% of the effort outside of IC as i can in it and dont have to worry about getting ganked while fighting npcs and losing half of what i worked for.

So in Eve Online you have high security safe areas and you have no security fend for yourself areas. and you have barely any security areas. The more risky the space you go into the bigger the rewards. So traveling around no security is very high risk, but the rewards are far far greater than the safe areas.

In ESO, the most dangerous places also have the worst rewards. The rewards do not match the risk.

2)You collect key frags and then take them to vaults and they are turned into keys and you get gear as a reward. You have to collect the frags THEN make it to the desired vault to collect the reward. The gear can be obtained other ways which makes the vaults unnecessary. It is a stupid system, that had potential but like most things was poorly thought out and implemented.

3) Its useless because of : A) What can be bought with it is worthless and because of the mechanic in which you either have to run around with a low multiplier and bank every 10-15 minutes or run with a high multiplier and give up half of what you worked for because of some ganker. BOTH A and B make it useless.

4)Id say a good majority prefer to either/other and not try to do both at the same time.

5) Its not a design flaw the entire zone is poorly designed, like all pvp in this game. To much trying to reinvent the wheel without actually putting thought in how or why the wheel was invented the first time.

6) I am not interested in the story because i dont want to be interrupted constantly by pvpers while trying to "story mode" When i do stories, i want to be left alone. I dont even do dungeon stories because i feel rushed all the time. I just click through them and do what i need to get the SP.
- Those ingredients that cost 500 tel var.... i can farm those in a normal zone in less than 2 minutes and pick other nodes and get chests while doing it.

Realistically, i can get 12 to 15k for Hakeijo. It cost 5k tel var. Unless i tried to form or find a group, starting with 0 tel var, it would take me an hour or so to get that much tel var and thats if i didnt die. I make more than that accidentally outside of IC. The skins have about a 5 or 6 to 1 rate but for the effort required to get the tel var for the skin, i could make 10 -20 times that outside of IC depending RNG doing a multitude of more enjoyable activities.

Im a multi millionaire in this game because i dont waste my time with worthless time sinks like IC. Your only solid counter argument is the storyline which makes me sad but it is what it is. IC is a zone with an identity crisis taken seriously by neither Pvers or Pvpers.

If you're in a PVP zone then you're a PVPer, you're not a PVEer killing NPCs. I also wanna point out that everyone kills NPCs, that's the point of IC. It's not PVP or PvE it's a PVPVE zone and its entire purpose is to be at up like that. Would I also assume that someone fighting NPCs in Cyrodiil is a PVEer as well? If you go into a zone with PVP you have to be prepared to PVP regardless of your skill. You can't keep calling telvar worthless either, if people are in there for that then it obviously has value.

2nd part
1) They already have plenty of those things in already. The Xivkyn poly morphs sell for about 750k each and in the last year they added the siegemaster helm/costume. That's not including the apothecary stuff and some of the few item sets that do still sell really well. I can personally attest I've sold or traded 2 siegemaster costumes and I've made about 4million gold from them. I just farmed up a 4th to sell (I used the 3rd).

TV gains in the sewers will also far exceed any farming you do for overland mats.

2) The vaults are necessary because the people selling the gear in other places would still have to make the run themselves and invest large amounts of gold on key fragments or farm them up by themselves. It has the same risk everywhere else has except you don't lose keys. The first couple years of the game the stuff you got from IC had some of the highest values in the game. The one Tamriel update was the down fall of that with the sets they added.

3) it isn't worthless you're assigning it's worth because you dont like the mechanic it is gained from. All the items in there have lots of gold value and have maintained their prices for 5 years and farming IC can be one of the most lucrative ways to make money for experienced farmers.

4) It isn't made for those people so it doesnt matter if the majority preference is or isnt. IC is made to be a PVPVE zone, it is meant for small scale ⁸players that are able to handle objectives and pvp at the same time.

5) I've played other PVP games, this isnt reinventing the wheel. Balance aside it is well executed and it's nothing a game like WoW didnt have for years as entire server options.

6) The PVP is part of the storyline. You are supposed to be freeing the city for your faction and helping the Drake of Blades. Whether or not you like it is a different story but it is still a great storyline and it still has great lore. Just because you're choosing not to do it none of that is taken away from the zone. You just havent experienced any of what it really has to offer in conjunction with the pvp and you're still trying to make a judgement on it.

You can farm the zone in 2min and get a fraction of what would be in the Tel Var bag and in those 2min I can solo an IC boss, get 6k tel var and get 12 bags. IC will always out pace regular farming, that's why those are there and why the risk on your TV stash is so great.

The same effort doesnt apply to everyone, just because you can't make money efficiently in IC doesnt mean it doesnt exist. The truth is the difficulty is a big part of why those prices exist and you have some of the best rewards locked behind some of the hardest content.

ArchMikem · February 2020

Rasande_Robin wrote: »

I would love to see PvE/PvP in all zones but that is never going to happen.

It's called Dueling, and if you're talking open world PvP where anyone can attack anyone without warning or cause, then yeah, fun times for the PvPers, but say goodbye to like, at least 70% of the squishy playerbase who quickly got sick and tired of the constant ganking outside player hubs and just up and quit the game.

xaraan · February 2020

TBF, this is the aftermath of every event. World bosses and Dragons and Anchors and all remain virtually untouched outside of launches and events. Even the newest zones, I see all dragon spawns just sitting there untouched. Maybe in the most populated time period you'll see a small handful of players trying to deal with one.

The events I guess get players into areas designed for lots of players like IC, world boss/events, etc. But kind of shows you how slow the game can be outside of these events (maybe made worse by the fact that many know to just wait for events).

newtinmpls · February 2020

I was kind of browsing through this thread and ran across a very succinct statement of the issue.

BackStabeth wrote: »

The real problem, and you expressed it without even realizing it is that people have to be incentivized to go into PvP areas. That's a problem. What you are really asking for is for people who do not normally or want to engage in PvP to be enticed to do so for your benefit.

I think that might be it.

Speaking as a not particularly skilled PvP'er, I definitely would have to be enticed.

I don't have a PvP build, I don't have the reflexes and tactical awareness to be a finely honed PvPer, so what I am, depending on how sarcastic my PvP opponents are, I'm either "a newb" or "fodder".

If a PvPer wanted to teach/guide me, I would take the opportunity to learn what I could, but my heart is not there. If PvPer wanted to gank me, well I try, but from how fast I die, I don't put up much of a fight.

How is that going to be fun...for me?

What the PvP argument is (from my perspective) "let me virtually beat you up a bunch, then mock you, then attempt to humiliate you, then rez and I'll do it all again".

Again...how is that going to be fun...for me?

eklhaftb16_ESO · February 2020

Can't speak for others, but personally, I'd be much more active in PvP, including sewers, if there was a dual spec option: separate champion point pool, separate skill point pool, separate gear, separate skill bar layout.

I have a spare set of crafted impenetrables on one character that jumps into Cyrodiil every now and then, but that's still vastly suboptimal for proper PvP. To be of any actual use, I'd have to respec - which I won't, because (a) it's a hassle and (b) it costs money. Having dual spec would greatly lower that barrier - and it shouldn't be too hard to implement, since all the PvP content happens in its own separate zones anyway.

Dusk_Coven · February 2020

BackStabeth wrote: »

Wrekkedd wrote: »

Well, Midyear Mayhem came and went, now there is no incentive for people to come into the sewers other than to break free of the lag.

The real problem, and you expressed it without even realizing it is that people have to be incentivized to go into PvP areas. That's a problem. What you are really asking for is for people who do not normally or want to engage in PvP to be enticed to do so for your benefit.

If what people are saying about the Iceheart Set nerf to make the DLC set attractive is true, then obviously ZOS thinks temporary incentives are good enough instead of better designed content.
After the people who care about the set pieces get their stuff from the DLC dungeons, it's going to be dead content when people again try to avoid doing DLC dungeons at all.

When you don't make content accessible and enjoyable, offering carrots is a lame "fix".

Cirantille · February 2020

I had fun during the event and it is a different experience to live through, nice atmosphere

But, even though I am a Cyrodiil addict, I don't think I would be a regular in IC.

I simply don't like the idea of losing stuff I grind. Kill me 300 times I dont care but losing currency makes it a no no for me.

I wish there was an option to carry a banner or something saying "I am on exploring and I carry 0 TV on me"

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · February 2020

Rasande_Robin wrote: »

I would love to see PvE/PvP in all zones but that is never going to happen.

been asking for it since 1st beta...I think it will happen soon...

LadySinflower · February 2020

I don't think motif drops or any other incentives would convince me to go into IC on a regular basis. I don't enjoy PvP and other players just don't care that I don't want to fight. I carry nothing with me so they don't get Tel Var for killing me. So I respect the zone for what it is - a PvP zone - and stay out. If PvPers want the zone to fill up maybe they should let us (PvErs) adopt some universal sign for "I don't want to fight and I carry no money" that they will respect and leave us alone. But I think I'll need my Skaal armor in Hell before that will ever happen. Lol

Ryori729 · February 2020

I've avoided PvP largely in the year I've played. I just wanted to enjoy the story lines and not get into the stuff you need to do to PvP well. I'd jump in occasionally and feel like I was just tickling folks. I was in Cyro at off times and was by my self for a couple of hours - not a good impression of the place. I have come to realize a lot of the problem was lack of knowledge of the zone, but that required the Wiki's, not zone experience to figure out, so the impression stuck. I was still slowly enjoying the mainland so why bother? Even now, I want to go in, but meh.

I enjoyed BG PvP in this event, but it was messy sometimes. Lots of imbalanced team counts. I was on an alt so I tweaked the toon just for the BGs. I'm figure I am a middle ground player - I know objective play, and can hold my own with about half of the population. But I also got tossed like a rag doll at times. So for me, its easy to see how people would bail on PvP here. I think I did well during the event - was often top in medals and/or kills (sub 50 to be fair). But I'm still not sure when I'll get back into one. PvP was fun and challenging but it was also a lot of time, and focus. I kinda like PvE where I can half zone out after work.

BackStabeth · February 2020

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

If you're in a PVP zone then you're a PVPer, you're not a PVEer killing NPCs. I also wanna point out that everyone kills NPCs, that's the point of IC. It's not PVP or PvE it's a PVPVE zone and its entire purpose is to be at up like that. Would I also assume that someone fighting NPCs in Cyrodiil is a PVEer as well? If you go into a zone with PVP you have to be prepared to PVP regardless of your skill. You can't keep calling telvar worthless either, if people are in there for that then it obviously has value.

That is certainly not an opinion held by everyone. You cannot state your opinion as fact and expect anyone to take what you say seriously.

People who are using a PVE character and are enticed to go into a PvP zone for some reward that has to do with an event are not PvP players. People who go into a PvP zone who are not geared or have their skill and points focused for PvP are not PvP players. And the PvP areas are certainly not PVPVE. You can personally define it however you like but if you simply do a little research you will find as I have, no example anywhere of anyone from ZoS saying anything about ESO being PVPVE.

Or to put it differently, if the PvP zones were PvPVE zones, then there would not be any gear specifically PvP, no skills specifically PvP. It's really simple to understand.

And you are right, if you go into a zone that is intended for PvP then you must also be ready to fight. The very reason why so many people who want nothing to do with PvP don't go into PvP zones. But also the reason that the developers have to figure out ways to entice people to, just like you are attempting to entice people in most of your posts related to PvP.

To some people telvar is utterly worthless. Take myself for example, if I can obtain all the things I want simply by spending gold instead of engaging in PvP I am going to, if there ever comes a time when I cannot obtain what I need to enjoy the game with gold, and it involves PvP I'll stop playing. But I make so much gold, never engaging in PvP that I don't have to worry about it now. And I certain make far more gold NOT engaging in PvP than I would engaging in PvP.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

1) They already have plenty of those things in already. The Xivkyn poly morphs sell for about 750k each and in the last year they added the siegemaster helm/costume. That's not including the apothecary stuff and some of the few item sets that do still sell really well. I can personally attest I've sold or traded 2 siegemaster costumes and I've made about 4million gold from them. I just farmed up a 4th to sell (I used the 3rd).

And? Not getting what you are trying to say. People sell content for 1-2 mil and do that far more often in PVE than you can farm anything in PvP. I get it, you personally make a lot of gold if what you say is true, But just as much gold can be made in PVE if not a lot more.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TV gains in the sewers will also far exceed any farming you do for overland mats.

I wouldn't agree with this statement at all, not even close. The reason some mats are expensive is because they are not easily obtained. If you are being attacked, how are you collecting mats? I suspect the reason why mats you can only obtain in PvP areas are expensive, is because they are not easily obtained. You know, supply and demand?

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

3) it isn't worthless you're assigning it's worth because you dont like the mechanic it is gained from. All the items in there have lots of gold value and have maintained their prices for 5 years and farming IC can be one of the most lucrative ways to make money for experienced farmers.

PVE can be one of the most profitable ways to make gold for experienced farmers. There is no need to go farming in PvP areas if you do not enjoy PvP, you can make as much gold even make far more gold doing everything else the game has to offer. From the sound of it, I make a lot more gold than you make, and I don't ever PvP. Again, you express your opinion as fact and have nothing to back up what you claim.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

4) It isn't made for those people so it doesnt matter if the majority preference is or isnt. IC is made to be a PVPVE zone, it is meant for small scale ⁸players that are able to handle objectives and pvp at the same time.

It's not a PVPVE zone, it's a PvP zone you are talking about. Again, if it were PvPVE then there would be no specific PvP gear, skills, etc. You honestly believe that ZoS, that the developers has made PvP small scale and wants it that way? You don't think that ZoS would love it if PvP were far more popular and was attractive for a lot more players? Now you are just attempting to make PvP sound elite, it's not, not in the least and not at all. It's just simply another aspect of the game. ZoS like any successful retailer is using a technique called "Mass Customization" where they attempt to offer something for everyone. I seriously doubt the intended purpose for IC is to be small scale. That is laughable at best.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

5) I've played other PVP games, this isnt reinventing the wheel. Balance aside it is well executed and it's nothing a game like WoW didnt have for years as entire server options.

There are so many problems and issues with PvP that it prevents a lot of people who otherwise might engage in it, from doing so. All you have to do is read many of the forum subjects to get a good idea there are serious issues with PvP. Everything from griefing to lag and many of the things you have previously talked about but have claimed to be otherwise.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

6) The PVP is part of the storyline. You are supposed to be freeing the city for your faction and helping the Drake of Blades. Whether or not you like it is a different story but it is still a great storyline and it still has great lore. Just because you're choosing not to do it none of that is taken away from the zone. You just havent experienced any of what it really has to offer in conjunction with the pvp and you're still trying to make a judgement on it.

If you do not enjoy aspects of the game, it should not be a requirement. PvP is certainly not required, if it were a lot of people wouldn't be playing ESO. Again, your opinion not fact, you seem to think everyone should be just as you are. You disregard everyone else's opinion and only consider yourself. If you tried perhaps to see things from a different perspective you might understand people and their opinions.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

You can farm the zone in 2min and get a fraction of what would be in the Tel Var bag and in those 2min I can solo an IC boss, get 6k tel var and get 12 bags. IC will always out pace regular farming, that's why those are there and why the risk on your TV stash is so great.

Have you worked just as hard farming items for gold in PVE as you claimed to have in PvP areas? And if so, did you keep a spreadsheet? Did you collect data so that you could interrogate it and make these statements that you seem to so fervently express as factual?

You have not, and you know why I know this? Because you seem to believe you really can farm more gold doing IC than you can doing PVE. That's not the case, not by a long shot. Even considering how few people farm and sell items from PvP zones, you also have to consider how few people even want or use things farmed from PvP zones. I can easily farm gold in PVE zones. I can pick chest, farm mats, pickpocket for motifs, do delves for motifs and gear, do dungeons... I don't know why I'm even explaining this to you, if you play the game as much as you make it seem, and you do any PVE at all you already know yourself you can make far more gold doing PVE than you claim. Again, and I don't know why, you are trying really hard to convince people PvP is something it is not, and that PvP zones are way more profitable than they really are.

You are trying way too hard to convince people who want nothing to do with PvP that they are missing out. Well they are not. What you should be doing is trying to convince people playing other PvP games to try it in ESO so you build a population of PvP players, not trying to convince PVE players they should play in the PvP zone. That just sounds like you are trying to create more farming fodder for your own benefit.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

The same effort doesnt apply to everyone, just because you can't make money efficiently in IC doesnt mean it doesnt exist. The truth is the difficulty is a big part of why those prices exist and you have some of the best rewards locked behind some of the hardest content.

No, just no, if you enjoy PvP and build your character for PvP then farming PvP zones is easy, just like you have said yourself over and over and over. You cannot say it's easy, and you can do it in 2 min or less and then say it's so hard it's almost impossible in the same post, come on. The reason that any PvP gear is expensive, the reason anything you can obtain in a PvP zone is expensive is because so few people play in the PvP zone and farm. It's supply and demand, you know, free market and all that? Or allow me again to put it in more simple terms. There are far fewer people in the PvP zones than PVE zones to start with, that means there are far fewer people farming anything in PvP zones, which means anything that someone puts up for sale that you cannot get anywhere but in a PvP zone is going to be more expensive. Not because it's hard to farm but because so few people bother farming it at all.

I used all the telvar I got from daily rewards, I got some gear from Telvar bags that is suppose to be worth a lot, so I put it up for sale to sell fast for half the price because frankly, I don't really NEED the gold. None of it has sold so far, not one piece at half the price. I think that must be a very clear sign that there just isn't that many people interested in that expensive gear.

I don't know why you work so hard in your posts to try convincing people who are not interested in anything to do with PvP, that they should engage in it. There is only a certain percentage of the population in any PVE/PvP game that is interested in PvP. This is something you just simply have to learn to accept. More people are not interested in PvP in ESO than are interested in it. Some of that could be that there are so many problems with the PvP system but I suspect no matter what ZoS does, most people still want nothing to do with PvP.

LadySinflower · February 2020

Another comment, I stay out because PvP is not my thing and I don't want other players bothering me. First time I went in there, just getting the lay of the land, I saw from a distance what I guess is a zerg, a group of players running together, not my color. I had maybe been there 15 minutes and it was late at night. I didn't want to be messed with so I quickly did an about-face and ran around a few corners hoping to get away from them. No such luck! One of them saw me, detached from the group and chased me down. I wasn't carrying Tel Var so he got nothing but the satisfaction of bullying someone out of the zone. I didn't go back that day and went on to do things that are fun for me. You wonder why the zone empties out when the event is over. People like me who just want to be left alone remove ourselves when there's no event to incentivize us to go.

Vyvrhel · February 2020

Wrekkedd wrote: »

I'm primarily a PvP player, so I don't know what would drag ALL play styles to the sewers on a more regular basis. So how about you share down below, what would drive YOU to come into the sewers more often?

Since you say you are primarily a PvP player, I believe you will have more fun fighting other PvP players than farming us clueless PVErs. I did a quest as before today. About 3 times I was farmed by a gank party, absolutely no chance to respond on their attack, then I believe I was once finished by a lone roamer who got me from behind while I was burned down to 1/3 of my health by mobs. Well I am not worried since this is simply a part of the game, but honestly, do you really miss toppling PVErs while they quest?

Oh and note the IC was far from dead today. Plenty of small parties but (and this is a good thing) no zergs. At least I have not seen any. Also I met several players in sewers as I was returning to home base.

Dusk_Coven · February 2020

Even if you take out the PvP aspect... I think PvE players are looking for completely different gameplay. PvP typically is very repetitive.
Take Cyrodiil for instance -- March through the map taking keeps till there's nothing left.. then what? Switch maps and do it again? That's grind.
Or come back later in the day to find out everything you've done was undone because (obviously) your side can't be on a map 24/7.

Instead, when people quest and follow storylines, they advance story and there's a sense of having changed something permanently and moved forward. This is why games like SWTOR have a big story player following -- they work very hard to make choices matter and you see the CHANGES to the story down the line as the story progresses.

Sure, PvE people grind too for loot and stuff. But PvP feels like all grind no progress. AND the range of what/how you grind is very limited.

Wrekkedd · February 2020

BackStabeth wrote: »

Wrekkedd wrote: »

Well, Midyear Mayhem came and went, now there is no incentive for people to come into the sewers other than to break free of the lag. I really enjoyed having players down there, both PvE and PvP, which is pretty much the whole design of it. How can we make that a normal thing? How about putting ANY motif drops on the bosses, like the zero legion ones from the event?

I'm primarily a PvP player, so I don't know what would drag ALL play styles to the sewers on a more regular basis. So how about you share down below, what would drive YOU to come into the sewers more often?

The real problem, and you expressed it without even realizing it is that people have to be incentivized to go into PvP areas. That's a problem. What you are really asking for is for people who do not normally or want to engage in PvP to be enticed to do so for your benefit.

To fix the issue, more players interested in PvP need to join ESO. You will only get a very few players who move from PVE to PvP or wish to do both by using incentives for them to try it in the first place. What PvP in ESO really needs is more new PvP players. And lets be honest, PVE players do not want to be farming fodder for PvP players to prey on. There are a lot of really decent PvP players, decent people, but there are a lot of griefers and trolls as well, which doesn't help the case for increasing the PvP player base at all. If you are ganking or griefing, you are actually causing people to not want to PvP. To help fix the PvP gaming population problem, PvP players who behave badly need to change how they play. It's really just a few bad PvP players ruining it for everyone else, almost always.

Anyway, if you are primarily into PvP wouldn't you really want more PvP players, not more PVE players? Considering those who are not interested in PvP are not geared or have their points and training distributed for PvP how might they be a challenge for someone honestly interested in PvP?

Not exactly what I was going for. For the most part, other than the mentioned ganking and griefing, what I saw was a nice balance of players from each side of the game, playing together. I enjoyed PvP with my guild against other PvP guilds for control of certain parts of the map, so that the PvE players could farm. I just liked the whole community feel of it....

Anotherone773 · February 2020

BackStabeth wrote: »

EVE Online is a horrible example, and honestly, it doesn't matter where you are. Anyone can attack you anywhere at any time regardless of what security level that space is, and I see far more ganking in EVE Online in high security space than you ever see in low or no security space. You have the miner bumpers, and corps set up specifically for high-sec ganking. So far as the risk/reward thing goes? Phffft, people buy the cheapest ships they can gank with, they then run around in huge groups and camp gates waiting for freighters to pass through. There is far more reward in ganking a freighter in high sec than there ever is in engaging in anything in low or no sec space.

No security space is almost always empty, unless there is a major war raging. I have been playing EVE Online since beta. I still have my accounts but I stopped playing, it's no longer fun. The ganking is totally out of hand, the rampant griefing, the scamming that is not only allowed but encouraged. It all just amounts to a very toxic game and I'm done with toxic games.ESO needs to fix the issues with PvP and figure out how to bring more PvP players into the game.

My experience is much different with EVE but i use to PVP quite heavily ( Usually in merc alliances) and the only time i would spend in hi sec is shopping in Jita and contracting it for delivery. My life now doesnt allow me to participate in PVP like i use too ( i cant spend 1-4 hours playing at a time at specific times) so i slowed down and then quite.

But the example i was trying to make was the risk vs reward is appropriate. There is more risk in null and the rewards are much higher.

You are never going to entice people who do not want to engage in the toxic behavior inherent in PvP, to do so. It's really sad, most people who engage in PvP are not toxic, it's really just a few people.

If the rewards are good enough then the Pvers will risk it. but it has to be worth the aggravation and any losses from getting ganked to get them there.

When you think about it logically, why would anyone want to play a game in their free time they are meant to enjoy, that causes them to become angry or upset or have any negative feelings? Why would someone continue playing a game if that were the case?

Im not trying to be funny...but have you spent much time on these forums? Some of the people that come here get very distraught over this game and some are distraught and come here and dont even play the game anymore.

I don't get it, it's like those people are gleefully and rabidly trying to ruin the very part of the game they claim to love so much.

I see this here and its sad. I saw it infiltrate Eve too. Its just how people are now, i think.

Anyway, ESO should fix the problems, and do whatever is needed to bring in more people who love or enjoy PvP play, and then ban and remove the ones that behave badly so the rest don't stop playing because of the few bad ones.

There are a lot of areas that most people dont use due to toxic players and/or poor design. They cant even make basic functioning tools that are standard in other MMOS, so i dont have a lot of faith in them at this point.

Mr_Walker · February 2020

Players picking your pckets after they kill you has always been a much complained about disincentive to go there.

Mr_Walker · February 2020

markulrich1966 wrote: »

You have so many options. Weak like me? Stay behind, no direct duels, instead use ballistas, join a small zerg. I actually really enjoyed it.

Best way to start pvp, and if you actually used some siege then you're already more useful than half the regular nitwits.

Gear and skill up and join on the regular!

GrumpyKlam · February 2020

Wrekkedd wrote: »

Well, Midyear Mayhem came and went, now there is no incentive for people to come into the sewers other than to break free of the lag. I really enjoyed having players down there, both PvE and PvP, which is pretty much the whole design of it. How can we make that a normal thing? How about putting ANY motif drops on the bosses, like the zero legion ones from the event?

I'm primarily a PvP player, so I don't know what would drag ALL play styles to the sewers on a more regular basis. So how about you share down below, what would drive YOU to come into the sewers more often?

Honestly, there's no incentive that will make me go to IC (PvPvE zone). I do not like PvP in this game, it happens. I just don't participate in the PvP events and wait for the next PvE event.

On paper, PvPvE is a good concept but I feel like it was poorly executed with IC or the devs didn't anticipe such a strong risk aversion from the players.

The best solution to keep IC alive would be a PvP instance and a PvE instance and rebalance the rewards. We all know this will never happen because this DLC is based on being PvPvE ... Althought, I bet that the PvE instance would have more people than the PvP instance because a lot of people would be happy to roam and quest in there without the risk associated to PvP.

This forum has been having the same discussion over IC for a while now, accept it's dead once the events are over or accept that for IC to live outside of event, you need a dedicated PvE instance.

It sucks big time for the people that love the PvPvE aspect but this is the reality ...

Rave the Histborn · February 2020

BackStabeth wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

If you're in a PVP zone then you're a PVPer, you're not a PVEer killing NPCs. I also wanna point out that everyone kills NPCs, that's the point of IC. It's not PVP or PvE it's a PVPVE zone and its entire purpose is to be at up like that. Would I also assume that someone fighting NPCs in Cyrodiil is a PVEer as well? If you go into a zone with PVP you have to be prepared to PVP regardless of your skill. You can't keep calling telvar worthless either, if people are in there for that then it obviously has value.

That is certainly not an opinion held by everyone. You cannot state your opinion as fact and expect anyone to take what you say seriously.

People who are using a PVE character and are enticed to go into a PvP zone for some reward that has to do with an event are not PvP players. People who go into a PvP zone who are not geared or have their skill and points focused for PvP are not PvP players. And the PvP areas are certainly not PVPVE. You can personally define it however you like but if you simply do a little research you will find as I have, no example anywhere of anyone from ZoS saying anything about ESO being PVPVE.

Or to put it differently, if the PvP zones were PvPVE zones, then there would not be any gear specifically PvP, no skills specifically PvP. It's really simple to understand.

And you are right, if you go into a zone that is intended for PvP then you must also be ready to fight. The very reason why so many people who want nothing to do with PvP don't go into PvP zones. But also the reason that the developers have to figure out ways to entice people to, just like you are attempting to entice people in most of your posts related to PvP.

To some people telvar is utterly worthless. Take myself for example, if I can obtain all the things I want simply by spending gold instead of engaging in PvP I am going to, if there ever comes a time when I cannot obtain what I need to enjoy the game with gold, and it involves PvP I'll stop playing. But I make so much gold, never engaging in PvP that I don't have to worry about it now. And I certain make far more gold NOT engaging in PvP than I would engaging in PvP.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

1) They already have plenty of those things in already. The Xivkyn poly morphs sell for about 750k each and in the last year they added the siegemaster helm/costume. That's not including the apothecary stuff and some of the few item sets that do still sell really well. I can personally attest I've sold or traded 2 siegemaster costumes and I've made about 4million gold from them. I just farmed up a 4th to sell (I used the 3rd).

And? Not getting what you are trying to say. People sell content for 1-2 mil and do that far more often in PVE than you can farm anything in PvP. I get it, you personally make a lot of gold if what you say is true, But just as much gold can be made in PVE if not a lot more.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TV gains in the sewers will also far exceed any farming you do for overland mats.

I wouldn't agree with this statement at all, not even close. The reason some mats are expensive is because they are not easily obtained. If you are being attacked, how are you collecting mats? I suspect the reason why mats you can only obtain in PvP areas are expensive, is because they are not easily obtained. You know, supply and demand?

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

3) it isn't worthless you're assigning it's worth because you dont like the mechanic it is gained from. All the items in there have lots of gold value and have maintained their prices for 5 years and farming IC can be one of the most lucrative ways to make money for experienced farmers.

PVE can be one of the most profitable ways to make gold for experienced farmers. There is no need to go farming in PvP areas if you do not enjoy PvP, you can make as much gold even make far more gold doing everything else the game has to offer. From the sound of it, I make a lot more gold than you make, and I don't ever PvP. Again, you express your opinion as fact and have nothing to back up what you claim.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

4) It isn't made for those people so it doesnt matter if the majority preference is or isnt. IC is made to be a PVPVE zone, it is meant for small scale ⁸players that are able to handle objectives and pvp at the same time.

It's not a PVPVE zone, it's a PvP zone you are talking about. Again, if it were PvPVE then there would be no specific PvP gear, skills, etc. You honestly believe that ZoS, that the developers has made PvP small scale and wants it that way? You don't think that ZoS would love it if PvP were far more popular and was attractive for a lot more players? Now you are just attempting to make PvP sound elite, it's not, not in the least and not at all. It's just simply another aspect of the game. ZoS like any successful retailer is using a technique called "Mass Customization" where they attempt to offer something for everyone. I seriously doubt the intended purpose for IC is to be small scale. That is laughable at best.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

5) I've played other PVP games, this isnt reinventing the wheel. Balance aside it is well executed and it's nothing a game like WoW didnt have for years as entire server options.

There are so many problems and issues with PvP that it prevents a lot of people who otherwise might engage in it, from doing so. All you have to do is read many of the forum subjects to get a good idea there are serious issues with PvP. Everything from griefing to lag and many of the things you have previously talked about but have claimed to be otherwise.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

6) The PVP is part of the storyline. You are supposed to be freeing the city for your faction and helping the Drake of Blades. Whether or not you like it is a different story but it is still a great storyline and it still has great lore. Just because you're choosing not to do it none of that is taken away from the zone. You just havent experienced any of what it really has to offer in conjunction with the pvp and you're still trying to make a judgement on it.

If you do not enjoy aspects of the game, it should not be a requirement. PvP is certainly not required, if it were a lot of people wouldn't be playing ESO. Again, your opinion not fact, you seem to think everyone should be just as you are. You disregard everyone else's opinion and only consider yourself. If you tried perhaps to see things from a different perspective you might understand people and their opinions.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

You can farm the zone in 2min and get a fraction of what would be in the Tel Var bag and in those 2min I can solo an IC boss, get 6k tel var and get 12 bags. IC will always out pace regular farming, that's why those are there and why the risk on your TV stash is so great.

Have you worked just as hard farming items for gold in PVE as you claimed to have in PvP areas? And if so, did you keep a spreadsheet? Did you collect data so that you could interrogate it and make these statements that you seem to so fervently express as factual?

You have not, and you know why I know this? Because you seem to believe you really can farm more gold doing IC than you can doing PVE. That's not the case, not by a long shot. Even considering how few people farm and sell items from PvP zones, you also have to consider how few people even want or use things farmed from PvP zones. I can easily farm gold in PVE zones. I can pick chest, farm mats, pickpocket for motifs, do delves for motifs and gear, do dungeons... I don't know why I'm even explaining this to you, if you play the game as much as you make it seem, and you do any PVE at all you already know yourself you can make far more gold doing PVE than you claim. Again, and I don't know why, you are trying really hard to convince people PvP is something it is not, and that PvP zones are way more profitable than they really are.

You are trying way too hard to convince people who want nothing to do with PvP that they are missing out. Well they are not. What you should be doing is trying to convince people playing other PvP games to try it in ESO so you build a population of PvP players, not trying to convince PVE players they should play in the PvP zone. That just sounds like you are trying to create more farming fodder for your own benefit.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

The same effort doesnt apply to everyone, just because you can't make money efficiently in IC doesnt mean it doesnt exist. The truth is the difficulty is a big part of why those prices exist and you have some of the best rewards locked behind some of the hardest content.

No, just no, if you enjoy PvP and build your character for PvP then farming PvP zones is easy, just like you have said yourself over and over and over. You cannot say it's easy, and you can do it in 2 min or less and then say it's so hard it's almost impossible in the same post, come on. The reason that any PvP gear is expensive, the reason anything you can obtain in a PvP zone is expensive is because so few people play in the PvP zone and farm. It's supply and demand, you know, free market and all that? Or allow me again to put it in more simple terms. There are far fewer people in the PvP zones than PVE zones to start with, that means there are far fewer people farming anything in PvP zones, which means anything that someone puts up for sale that you cannot get anywhere but in a PvP zone is going to be more expensive. Not because it's hard to farm but because so few people bother farming it at all.

I used all the telvar I got from daily rewards, I got some gear from Telvar bags that is suppose to be worth a lot, so I put it up for sale to sell fast for half the price because frankly, I don't really NEED the gold. None of it has sold so far, not one piece at half the price. I think that must be a very clear sign that there just isn't that many people interested in that expensive gear.

I don't know why you work so hard in your posts to try convincing people who are not interested in anything to do with PvP, that they should engage in it. There is only a certain percentage of the population in any PVE/PvP game that is interested in PvP. This is something you just simply have to learn to accept. More people are not interested in PvP in ESO than are interested in it. Some of that could be that there are so many problems with the PvP system but I suspect no matter what ZoS does, most people still want nothing to do with PvP.

If you go into a zone with PVP you should be expected to PVP. I can't change your gear for you and I can't see what gear you are wearing either. If you choose to wear something without impenetrable that is on you it is easy to find gear sets or craft them in some way. If you choose to not rework your CP it is still on you, if I choose not to redo CP for different trials it is still on me, same standard applies.

Or to put it differently, if the PvP zones were PvPVE zones, then there would not be any gear specifically PvP, no skills specifically PvP. It's really simple to understand.

This is an opinion, PVP gear can be used in PVP and PVE the same goes for monster sets and PVE gear. ALl gear is meant for all content. That is a fact, that is why everything has an impen option for the trait.

I don't think you can entice people like yourself into PVP if they're unwilling to take the same preparations and the developers shouldn't need to entice you any further than they already have. PVP is meant to be competitive and rewarding while the PVE model is to keep most things noncompetitive and easy for every player to clear until you get into vet dungeons/trials.

PVE can be one of the most profitable ways to make gold for experienced farmers. There is no need to go farming in PvP areas if you do not enjoy PvP, you can make as much gold even make far more gold doing everything else the game has to offer. From the sound of it, I make a lot more gold than you make, and I don't ever PvP. Again, you express your opinion as fact and have nothing to back up what you claim.

"Can be" is different from "Is" and while yes PVE can obviously be profitable farming for alchemy mats in PVE it will never out pace farming bosses in IC for tel var. From the sounds of it thought I've made far more gold than you've ever made and judging from what you've said I should make significantly less. Trust me, I've farmed more, spent more, and probably have more gold in my bank than you've ever had.

It's not a PVPVE zone, it's a PvP zone you are talking about. Again, if it were PvPVE then there would be no specific PvP gear, skills, etc. You honestly believe that ZoS, that the developers has made PvP small scale and wants it that way? You don't think that ZoS would love it if PvP were far more popular and was attractive for a lot more players? Now you are just attempting to make PvP sound elite, it's not, not in the least and not at all. It's just simply another aspect of the game. ZoS like any successful retailer is using a technique called "Mass Customization" where they attempt to offer something for everyone. I seriously doubt the intended purpose for IC is to be small scale. That is laughable at best.

Why would they not include PVP things in a PVPVE zone?
Yes, they designed the zone this way, you've already said you don't PVP so I don't expect you to understand why they would design it that way.
Why would they need PVP to be more popular? Wouldn't they just focus on that more if that was their end goal? They still update pvp and add stuff, I think they have their PVP where they want it.
You seem to have a PVP complex any time I've ever talked to you. You claim to hate PVP but you have a lot of opinions on the people, how they view the game, and how it should function.
Of course the purpose of IC is small scale PVP. Maybe instead of having a completely uninformed opinion go run around the sewers. Do you think the sewers are meant for large open PVP? The districts can support it better but it's meant for small groups.

There are so many problems and issues with PvP that it prevents a lot of people who otherwise might engage in it, from doing so. All you have to do is read many of the forum subjects to get a good idea there are serious issues with PvP. Everything from griefing to lag and many of the things you have previously talked about but have claimed to be otherwise.

Griefing happens but isn't a real issue and it's nothing you can stop. People will always try to grief, you just don't let those people get to you because they're looking for you to react negatively. It sounds like you feed their bad habits. Everyone lags, that's not a reason to abandon an entire game type. If I listened to the forums I'd also hear about how dismal the state of PVE is with lackluster DLCs, unwanted DPS/resource changes, toxicity in high end PVE, etc. You can't just let the spectre of something happening scare you away.

You are trying way too hard to convince people who want nothing to do with PvP that they are missing out. Well they are not. What you should be doing is trying to convince people playing other PvP games to try it in ESO so you build a population of PvP players, not trying to convince PVE players they should play in the PvP zone. That just sounds like you are trying to create more farming fodder for your own benefit.

Oh, well that's weird that I'm posting in a forum thread about PVP and how the sewers should be more populated and I'm trying to entice people into there. It's really weird that you seem to come into these forums to complain about everything related to PVP. Instead of just crying about the boogey man that scares you so bad you miss out on 50% of your gaming experience let people choose what they like.

If you do not enjoy aspects of the game, it should not be a requirement. PvP is certainly not required, if it were a lot of people wouldn't be playing ESO. Again, your opinion not fact, you seem to think everyone should be just as you are. You disregard everyone else's opinion and only consider yourself. If you tried perhaps to see things from a different perspective you might understand people and their opinions.

You can RP as a spy and pack some invis pots and stealth through 99% of the missions.

It doesn't matter if you enjoy the aspects of the game, not everyone enjoys learning a rotation for trials but if you want to do them you have to. I'm sorry the fact that not everything in the game is built to just be run through and enjoyed escapes you but that is the reality of the situation. I don't disregard opinions, you just seem to have this habit of creating an absurd example and thinking your strawman disproves other peoples points. "Well this player that chooses not to gear for PVP and also has a 500 ping all the time, and he also only has one hand, How is he supposed to PVP? Do you really think ZOS made a zone where they couldn't play?" Yes, yes they did. You clearly have never done the story in IC either because if they made the zone strictly PVE you'd be pissed off that the main quest would take like 25min to finish without the threat of PVP or going through the sewers again. PVP is part of it no matter how much you dislike it.

And? Not getting what you are trying to say. People sell content for 1-2 mil and do that far more often in PVE than you can farm anything in PvP. I get it, you personally make a lot of gold if what you say is true, But just as much gold can be made in PVE if not a lot more.

1-2 million split between 4-12 players. Let's not lie or anything about it. It's not about IF you can make as much gold in PVE vs IC, you're saying Tel Var farming is worthless because you don't do it. It's not, you're wrong.

Have you worked just as hard farming items for gold in PVE as you claimed to have in PvP areas? And if so, did you keep a spreadsheet? Did you collect data so that you could interrogate it and make these statements that you seem to so fervently express as factual?

I'd be happy to link you my achievements in game to show I've not only done more PVE than you and farmed/grinded more than you ever have but I also had time to be good at pvp too. No, I didn't keep a spread sheet though because that's not what normal people do. I didn't realize I was going to be scrutinized by a nameless person on an internet forum that has never actually done the content in question.

You have not, and you know why I know this? Because you seem to believe you really can farm more gold doing IC than you can doing PVE. That's not the case, not by a long shot. Even considering how few people farm and sell items from PvP zones, you also have to consider how few people even want or use things farmed from PvP zones. I can easily farm gold in PVE zones. I can pick chest, farm mats, pickpocket for motifs, do delves for motifs and gear, do dungeons... I don't know why I'm even explaining this to you, if you play the game as much as you make it seem, and you do any PVE at all you already know yourself you can make far more gold doing PVE than you claim. Again, and I don't know why, you are trying really hard to convince people PvP is something it is not, and that PvP zones are way more profitable than they really are.

PVP items are big ticket items, they sell for much more than their PVE counter parts. I think it's really funny by your own admission you've never farmed IC so you can't actually compare it to your PVE farming. So even though I don't have a spreadsheet I have actual experience and data that you have 0 of so I'm not sure why you've got an opinion on the matter or why you're trying to explain it to me. The fact that I can compare farming PVE to PVP shows that I have FAR more experience in both then you do. You can also farm all that stuff in PVE while I can do the same in PVP (motifs, pickpocketing, chests, quests, etc.). I also have the addition of Tel Var and AP currencies i can gain at the same time in order to purchase extra things to sell on top of anything farmed. Even just in IC it is possible to farm as much gold or more than from PVE with less effort.

No, just no, if you enjoy PvP and build your character for PvP then farming PvP zones is easy, just like you have said yourself over and over and over. You cannot say it's easy, and you can do it in 2 min or less and then say it's so hard it's almost impossible in the same post, come on. The reason that any PvP gear is expensive, the reason anything you can obtain in a PvP zone is expensive is because so few people play in the PvP zone and farm. It's supply and demand, you know, free market and all that? Or allow me again to put it in more simple terms. There are far fewer people in the PvP zones than PVE zones to start with, that means there are far fewer people farming anything in PvP zones, which means anything that someone puts up for sale that you cannot get anywhere but in a PvP zone is going to be more expensive. Not because it's hard to farm but because so few people bother farming it at all.

But I'm talking about farming the PVE part of IC........so shouldn't you have no problem farming the PVE bosses with a PVE character? See you're just here to complain. You don't know what you're talking about and you're just here to poison every PVP thread.

So if it's supply and demand and you're such a smart economist why are you saying that PVP items have a smaller supply and thus a higher demand (money gain). Do you realize you're just proving my point. Everyone can farm PVE and get the same crap you get in the same time it takes you. Not everyone can do the same thing in IC so if you are good at farming IC YOU MAKE MORE MONEY BECAUSE THERE IS LESS SUPPLY BUT THERE IS A HIGH DEMAND. It doesn't have to be hard to farm, that's not the point, your point was it didn't make as much money.

I used all the telvar I got from daily rewards, I got some gear from Telvar bags that is suppose to be worth a lot, so I put it up for sale to sell fast for half the price because frankly, I don't really NEED the gold. None of it has sold so far, not one piece at half the price. I think that must be a very clear sign that there just isn't that many people interested in that expensive gear.
LOL "hey guys, I put these things up for half off and I don't expect anyone to undercut that further and they haven't sold so clearly you can't make any money. Oh it was after an event where lots of people farmed AP and IC and got way more TV than me and had more chances at the same gear"

How much gold do you have since you keep bringing it up?

I don't know why you work so hard in your posts to try convincing people who are not interested in anything to do with PvP, that they should engage in it. There is only a certain percentage of the population in any PVE/PvP game that is interested in PvP. This is something you just simply have to learn to accept. More people are not interested in PvP in ESO than are interested in it. Some of that could be that there are so many problems with the PvP system but I suspect no matter what ZoS does, most people still want nothing to do with PvP.

Title of the thread is "Sewers are dead again, and I'm sad" maybe they're dead because people like you that have never done the content you cry and complain about it. Why do you come to PVP threads and expect people to not be pro PVP? How does it feel to know that I've accomplished more in PVE than you than you ever will and I got into PVP just to furnish my house.

Akisohida · February 2020

Rasande_Robin wrote: »

I would love to see PvE/PvP in all zones but that is never going to happen.

Wrekkedd wrote: »

Rasande_Robin wrote: »

I would love to see PvE/PvP in all zones but that is never going to happen.

Yeah, i'd really enjoy that. Or at least ONE zone, and maybe tie a really rewarding grind to that zone....probably too much work for them with not enough payoff...

I'd hate global PvP. Wow does global PvP and WoW can burn and die. I don't play MMO's to be at the mercy of some 12-25 year old with too much free time and a drive to ruin the fun of anyone and everyone because mom & dad did not buy them the newest game console.

Leave PvP in the PvP areas where I can ignore it. If those areas die after events, it just goes to show how few people enjoy the PvP.

Don't punish everyone else just because it's not popular.

Akisohida · February 2020

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

BackStabeth wrote: »

You are never going to entice people who do not want to engage in the toxic behavior inherent in PvP, to do so. It's really sad, most people who engage in PvP are not toxic, it's really just a few people. If there were a way to remove those who give PvP a bad name then I suspect more people would PvP.

Yes there is but everyone laughed it off when FO76 introduced it -- Private instances.
Play with likeminded guilds and people, keep each other accountable.

More and more it makes sense.
Want to kill all the NPCs in Auridon? Go make your own private instance.
Want to ERP with your guild naked in the middle of town? Go make your own private instance.
Want the IC Sewer without people camped at your door? Make a private instance and invite people who aren't door gankers.

Everyone laughed when FO76 did it because they promised it as a feature, and then locked it behind a paywall.

Trust me; ANYTHING Bethesda does should be ignored. Same with Blizzard. They are object lessens in 'How To Lose All Goodwill & Fanbase In 6 Months Or Less' By Greed E. Vester

Radiance · February 2020

Okay, stop writing Novel Length comments, ain't nobody got time for that!

It's simple.

The majority of players are casuals and Hardcore PVP Bros with God Builds that rip through zergs and camp noobs for easy pickens ruins the fun for a lot of people. And you know how first impressions work, when people have a bad experience they are less likely to return. I'm max CP and PVP from time to time but even I get wrecked on a semi-regular basis and while I am more resilient than most, when you run into the same toxic hunter every time you turn the corner, it gets tiring after a while.
For the casuals, the Group setting where you work together is just more appealing than every man for themselves. Not to mention there is a larger Content Variety to choose from in PVE while Imp City/Sewers are always gonna be Imp City/Sewers and it just gets stale and boring after while.

Right now, I think there is just a lull since everyone is worn out from the event but they will slowly start to creep back in.

dem0n1k · February 2020

There are always players in IC... you just can't see them till it's too late! O_o

To everyone saying that Telvar is utterly worthless... please send all your telvar to @dem0n1k !muchos gracias.

I also had to giggle a bit at some players asking for greater rewards due to greater risk.... can you imagine the community uproar if the best gear was only available from a PVP zone!? You get a forum meltdown when some players have to venture into PVP zones for event motifs & boxes that are only cosmetic rewards!

Anotherone773 · February 2020

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

vestahls wrote: »

I_am_Groot wrote: »

Personally I think being on edge knowing that someone could be lurking behind the next corner is what makes it so great, you can never get that from a PvE game because everything is scripted and predictable and believe me, I'm terrible when it comes to PvP. So stop being a bunch of milk drinkers and get in the sewers....that's where you'll find me tonight after work.
~ Cheers

Listen. I don't want to be in constant stress while playing a video game. I get constant stress at work. Personally I paid money for this thing to de-stress

It's not really stress, it's anticipation. At any time you could get into a battle and then you're gambling are you going to win and make more tel var or is this the losing battle and you lose half and bank and start again.

Except most people who would be killing NPCs in IC would not be pvpers in pvp gear and the person likely attacking them would be a ganker who would be set up for pvp. That fight would be greatly off balance with the Pvers only chance being that they suddenly had help or the ganker lagged out. Then you lose half of what you earned and bank the rest? So a worthless currency is technically only half as valuable as it worthless face value.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Wrekkedd wrote: »

Well, Midyear Mayhem came and went, now there is no incentive for people to come into the sewers other than to break free of the lag. I really enjoyed having players down there, both PvE and PvP, which is pretty much the whole design of it. How can we make that a normal thing? How about putting ANY motif drops on the bosses, like the zero legion ones from the event?

I'm primarily a PvP player, so I don't know what would drag ALL play styles to the sewers on a more regular basis. So how about you share down below, what would drive YOU to come into the sewers more often?

So i actually pvp in other games, and sometimes mess around in this one. But i dont enjoy ESO PVP all that much, when i do its usually battlegrounds but sometimes cyro. I dont enjoy mixing pvp with pve. I want to do one or the other not both at the same time and im not fond of being ganked while pveing or ganking pvers.

To answer your question to get me in the sewers more:
1) Tel Var have to be way more useful than they are. Its a lot of effort to acquire, more effort to keep, and what you can buy with them is garbage.
2) Then we have key/ key frags for vaults. Im not interested in working multiple times for the same reward. I have to obtain the reward then i have to work to use the reward. No thank you.
3) Tel var stone loss is to large especially for such a useless currency.
4) I dont want to deal with players when i am trying to pve.
5) I dont want to deal with NPCs when i am trying to pvp. ( used in a guard function is fine for NPCs)
6) In order for me to want to spend time in a zone it has to meet one of the following requirements:
- Be part of a story line i am interested in doing/completing
- Have rewards that i deem profitable.
- Be aesthetically pleasing

There are 3 zones in the game that i really dislike
- Imperial City
- Coldharbor
- Clockwork City.

1) What would you add? People always complain about tel var but realistically it's easy to acquire, easier to keep than ever, and everything you buy is useful for PVP/PVE or items that sell for lots of gold to purchase what you need.

2) What? English please?

3) If it's useless you wouldn't care about the loss. It's not. This is the main real complaint from IC, most people aren't used to the risk/reward aspect of TV gains due to it being the only place it is implemented.

4) Doesn't sound like a design flaw, sounds like a preference. I enjoy having something to do while I pvp personally

5) Again, not a design for, just a preference you then contradict

6) IC's story is one of the best/has some of the best lore in the game
- Tel Var has a 4-1 gold value. The apothecary satchels are filled with alchemy ingredients you can sell raw or turn into potions for high profits, Hakeijos are always profitable and in demand, and the skins and costumes you are able to get now sell for big profits. There's a difference between what you deem profitable and what is profitable

1) Things that are tradeable and valuable or useful. The satchel is the most useful thing in there and i can obtain its contents with 5% of the effort outside of IC as i can in it and dont have to worry about getting ganked while fighting npcs and losing half of what i worked for.

So in Eve Online you have high security safe areas and you have no security fend for yourself areas. and you have barely any security areas. The more risky the space you go into the bigger the rewards. So traveling around no security is very high risk, but the rewards are far far greater than the safe areas.

In ESO, the most dangerous places also have the worst rewards. The rewards do not match the risk.

2)You collect key frags and then take them to vaults and they are turned into keys and you get gear as a reward. You have to collect the frags THEN make it to the desired vault to collect the reward. The gear can be obtained other ways which makes the vaults unnecessary. It is a stupid system, that had potential but like most things was poorly thought out and implemented.

3) Its useless because of : A) What can be bought with it is worthless and because of the mechanic in which you either have to run around with a low multiplier and bank every 10-15 minutes or run with a high multiplier and give up half of what you worked for because of some ganker. BOTH A and B make it useless.

4)Id say a good majority prefer to either/other and not try to do both at the same time.

5) Its not a design flaw the entire zone is poorly designed, like all pvp in this game. To much trying to reinvent the wheel without actually putting thought in how or why the wheel was invented the first time.

6) I am not interested in the story because i dont want to be interrupted constantly by pvpers while trying to "story mode" When i do stories, i want to be left alone. I dont even do dungeon stories because i feel rushed all the time. I just click through them and do what i need to get the SP.
- Those ingredients that cost 500 tel var.... i can farm those in a normal zone in less than 2 minutes and pick other nodes and get chests while doing it.

Realistically, i can get 12 to 15k for Hakeijo. It cost 5k tel var. Unless i tried to form or find a group, starting with 0 tel var, it would take me an hour or so to get that much tel var and thats if i didnt die. I make more than that accidentally outside of IC. The skins have about a 5 or 6 to 1 rate but for the effort required to get the tel var for the skin, i could make 10 -20 times that outside of IC depending RNG doing a multitude of more enjoyable activities.

Im a multi millionaire in this game because i dont waste my time with worthless time sinks like IC. Your only solid counter argument is the storyline which makes me sad but it is what it is. IC is a zone with an identity crisis taken seriously by neither Pvers or Pvpers.

If you're in a PVP zone then you're a PVPer, you're not a PVEer killing NPCs. I also wanna point out that everyone kills NPCs, that's the point of IC. It's not PVP or PvE it's a PVPVE zone and its entire purpose is to be at up like that. Would I also assume that someone fighting NPCs in Cyrodiil is a PVEer as well? If you go into a zone with PVP you have to be prepared to PVP regardless of your skill. You can't keep calling telvar worthless either, if people are in there for that then it obviously has value.

2nd part
1) They already have plenty of those things in already. The Xivkyn poly morphs sell for about 750k each and in the last year they added the siegemaster helm/costume. That's not including the apothecary stuff and some of the few item sets that do still sell really well. I can personally attest I've sold or traded 2 siegemaster costumes and I've made about 4million gold from them. I just farmed up a 4th to sell (I used the 3rd).

TV gains in the sewers will also far exceed any farming you do for overland mats.

2) The vaults are necessary because the people selling the gear in other places would still have to make the run themselves and invest large amounts of gold on key fragments or farm them up by themselves. It has the same risk everywhere else has except you don't lose keys. The first couple years of the game the stuff you got from IC had some of the highest values in the game. The one Tamriel update was the down fall of that with the sets they added.

3) it isn't worthless you're assigning it's worth because you dont like the mechanic it is gained from. All the items in there have lots of gold value and have maintained their prices for 5 years and farming IC can be one of the most lucrative ways to make money for experienced farmers.

4) It isn't made for those people so it doesnt matter if the majority preference is or isnt. IC is made to be a PVPVE zone, it is meant for small scale ⁸players that are able to handle objectives and pvp at the same time.

5) I've played other PVP games, this isnt reinventing the wheel. Balance aside it is well executed and it's nothing a game like WoW didnt have for years as entire server options.

6) The PVP is part of the storyline. You are supposed to be freeing the city for your faction and helping the Drake of Blades. Whether or not you like it is a different story but it is still a great storyline and it still has great lore. Just because you're choosing not to do it none of that is taken away from the zone. You just havent experienced any of what it really has to offer in conjunction with the pvp and you're still trying to make a judgement on it.

You can farm the zone in 2min and get a fraction of what would be in the Tel Var bag and in those 2min I can solo an IC boss, get 6k tel var and get 12 bags. IC will always out pace regular farming, that's why those are there and why the risk on your TV stash is so great.

The same effort doesnt apply to everyone, just because you can't make money efficiently in IC doesnt mean it doesnt exist. The truth is the difficulty is a big part of why those prices exist and you have some of the best rewards locked behind some of the hardest content.

If i am in a pvp zone, i am there to pvp and not interested in PVE, so the NPCs are nothing more than a pain. If the game is fully designed around pvp with pve in it then NPCs are fine, but IC is just full of trash mobs that get in your way when your trying to pvp.

Also i dont need "something to do" while pvping. Im either fighting or hunting, not hanging out hoping someone shows up to spar with me.

1) The polys sell for closer to 1.5 million on PC NA but that is not the point. The point is time VS reward is not anywhere close to other MORE ENJOYABLE ways to earn gold. The reward is not sufficient enough to make the risk worthwhile vs the rest of the game.

2) The vaults are not necessary because you can get the items in the vaults from other sources. The vaults are not needed for anything. No gear set in any of the vaults are exclusive to the vaults.

3) I believe the OP question that i answered was " What would it take to get you into the sewers more?" I bet most of the people who have been to IC and experienced different elements of IC including dying and losing stones and spending stones would tell you that those stones are not worth the effort required. You might find them to be of value but i dont. If i want to PVE i have the other 32 zones to do that in. If i want to pvp for something that i find useful, ill do BGs for AP.

4) Everything in a video game is made for the majority. You dont make video games and then base it a small percent of your player base. Why do you think there has never been another IC? Because it was an experiment and huge failure. They have done things to make it more enticing to people with very little positive results. The population of this game either wants to PVP OR PVE, not both at the same time.

5) That is your opinion. In my opinion PVP is poorly done in ESO, and rather boring. Not even PVP players enjoy it. They are constantly complaining about the state of PVP and what a constant mess its in. While i differ with them on why its a mess, nonetheless it is currently a disaster as ZOS cannot seem to develop a plan to develop a balanced bug free game. That crown store is nice and organized and bug free though!

6) As i said storyline is not something im interested in for the same reasons im not interested in dungeon storylines.

The boss respawns are slow and you have to get to them. Then you have to be able to solo them without getting interrupted. then you have to make it back to base. Its a lot of steps and requires you to solo IC bosses and not to be bothered. That might be fine in an ideal situation, but you rarely get ideal situations in pvp. In fact you usually have an overwhelming advantage or an overwhelming disadvantage. No thank you.

If IC was so great for farming, you wouldnt be trying so hard to convince more people to come there and take all your boss spawns which drop such great loot. But its far easier for you to let pvers come to IC and farm the npcs and then you just gank them.

I use to pvp in a game that is far far more hardcore than this one. I would never try to convince people to come PVE in my secret great PVE spots if i didnt plan on letting them farm the spots and just taking the stuff they farmed and saving myself a bunch of time.