Animation Cancelling the most important issue?

Nordic__Knights · January 2020

Its an unintended feature within the game zo$ tried to remove but yet could not do so and turn it into a skill line so to say I would say that is a bug and needs to be removed

witchdoctor · January 2020

Would you all kindly please shut the hell up about animation cancelling!?

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Its an unintended feature within the game zo$ tried to remove but yet could not do so and turn it into a skill line so to say I would say that is a bug and needs to be removed

BZZZZT.

Nordic__Knights · January 2020

witchdoctor wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Its an unintended feature within the game zo$ tried to remove but yet could not do so and turn it into a skill line so to say I would say that is a bug and needs to be removed

BZZZZT.

Like it or not A/C being in the game just shows zo$ cant fix their own game as they DID NOT ATTEND FOR A/C TO BE IN THE GAME FROM THE START AND EVEN TRIED TO FIX IT BUT COULDN'T

Sephyr · January 2020

Would you all kindly please shut the hell up about animation cancelling!?

It's 2020. It's time to stop complaining about animation cancelling. The horse is dead enough.

karekiz · February 2020

Other, and the reason for having an "other" option is important enough that I'll explain why...

Kappa Meme M8 WTB Disc responses to these bait threads.

r34lian · February 2020

Other, and the reason for having an "other" option is important enough that I'll explain why...

Taemiru wrote: »

r34lian wrote: »

One thing never get is when people associate animation cancelling with skill yeah takes lots of skill to mash two buttons simultaneously right?
More like saying using scripts for hacks require skill lmao

Script will never outdamage a good player.
And seeing how many people can't press two buttons every second and generally struggling with dps, one can say that there is some skill involved.

But do you know that situation of these people?
or are you aware of the factors that affect the so called skill?
You just can't quote skill to anything just like that especially if it is dependent on various factors it's kinda lame

Varana · February 2020

Would you all kindly please shut the hell up about animation cancelling!?

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Animation cancelling is very common in games. Other games have resolved this by enforcing the animation if you want the damage. Now there is a difference between animation cancelling and weaving attacks between abilities.

An example of animation cancelling is jumping to cancel an animation and than using another ability while jumping and than doing a light attack to cancel the animation of the ability and than jumping to cancel the light attack animation, etc... those are animation cancelling.

Simply doing an ability, light attack, ability, etc... is not animation cancelling but light attack weaving which is OK from experience.

Animation cancelling is when you are able to produce extra damage without producing the animation of the ability and going into another ability animation.

Most games allow shields to cancel other ability animation because a shield provides zero damage bonus but that animation cannot be cancelled.

People do jump-cancel? Huh? Oookay...

What remains is that it totally doesn't matter how often or effectively you jump around (really? jump-cancelling is a thing?). You can fire exactly one ability per second. Combined with a light attack, that's two things. You can also bar swap, roll dodge, bash, or block in between.

Good weaving includes animation cancelling. Animations may last longer than 0.5 seconds (or even 0.33 seconds when you include a bar swap or block). So in many cases, even the basic LA -> skill -> LA -> skill includes anicancelling the LA animations because you want that time for the skill animations to play out.

ESO took the conscious decision to have combat based on instant abilities. That is not a bug-now-feature, it is not an oversight, it was a very deliberate design principle. Abilities doing damage instantly, is what makes ESO combat into what it is, with an emphasis on speed and fluency. The accompanying animations are just fluff. Introducing cast times for every ability (a.k.a. cancelling the skill when cancelling the animation) will change ESO's combat profoundly, not only in terms of damage done, but also how it feels - more clunky, less fast-paced, more goop-y and slow. That's not something you simply change on the fly because some people want to see more pixel persons moving their pixel arms around.

Juhasow · February 2020

Would you all kindly please shut the hell up about animation cancelling!?

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Its an unintended feature within the game zo$ tried to remove but yet could not do so and turn it into a skill line so to say I would say that is a bug and needs to be removed

BZZZZT.

Like it or not A/C being in the game just shows zo$ cant fix their own game as they DID NOT ATTEND FOR A/C TO BE IN THE GAME FROM THE START AND EVEN TRIED TO FIX IT BUT COULDN'T

Any evidence for that claim ?

Juhasow · February 2020

Would you all kindly please shut the hell up about animation cancelling!?

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Its an unintended feature within the game zo$ tried to remove but yet could not do so and turn it into a skill line so to say I would say that is a bug and needs to be removed

Funnily enough if You would know how it works You would've known how wrong You're when claiming that it's a bug. You either dont know what bug is or You dont know how animation canceling in ESO works.

vibeborn · February 2020

Would you all kindly please shut the hell up about animation cancelling!?

Animation cancelling doesn't hurt anybody - not even the low level players who claim that it hurts them

Karmanorway · February 2020

Would you all kindly please shut the hell up about animation cancelling!?

Or u know... Maybe bother to try to learn something New that can benefit you too? instead of taking it away from everyone else who already bothered to learn it? Just a suggestions ofc...

"I want to learn japanese, but its too hard, so i think we should just remove the language, then I dont have any issues with japanese anymore"

Paramedicus · February 2020

Animation cancelling needs to be a high priority discussion for ESO

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Paramedicus wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

To the degree that animation cancelling negatively impacts performance, it is that important.

It's no more load than spamming the same skill over and over

How do you know that? Anti-skill (button) spam can be client side feature (i.e. ignore same input if used too quick), while weaving (in intervals as short as 50ms) must be noticed server-side.

They moved all those measures server side due to hacks/cheating long ago. The server tracks your movement, the server tracks ult gen, the server tracks your position in space etc.

As far as light/heavy attacks, for the server it is just another input, same as a skill. For the code they are the same thing, just on separate cooldowns.

Good to know then. But still, faster server must count stuff (shorter intervals between actions being implemented) more demanging it gonna be.

starkerealm · February 2020

Would you all kindly please shut the hell up about animation cancelling!?

Juhasow wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Its an unintended feature within the game zo$ tried to remove but yet could not do so and turn it into a skill line so to say I would say that is a bug and needs to be removed

BZZZZT.

Like it or not A/C being in the game just shows zo$ cant fix their own game as they DID NOT ATTEND FOR A/C TO BE IN THE GAME FROM THE START AND EVEN TRIED TO FIX IT BUT COULDN'T

Any evidence for that claim ?

Back in 2014, ZOS started a poll on the boards asking for feedback on animation canceling and whether the mechanic should be removed or not. The community voted, overwhelmingly, to keep animation canceling.

Oh, wait, that's the opposite of their claim. Hmm.

ESTyll13 · February 2020

Other, and the reason for having an "other" option is important enough that I'll explain why...

remove animation from pvp and leave it in pve

idk · February 2020

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

pod88kk wrote: »

Without animation cancelling combat feels clunky(eg. Cast times on ultis) and slow

Yep exactly. Without animation cancel, there's no point in using light/heavy attacks, so just unbind Mouse 1.

While there would be a point of doing a heavy attack to gain resources but one does not weave a HA into a skill as the HA has to complete.

But you have a point concerning Zos' thoughts on this matter. They have double downed on the weaving of basic attacks which is the second most basic aspects of AC. Zos not only increased the damage LAs twice they have created sets that encourage weaving. Then Zos created a spamable skill in the Psijic line that specifically requires weaving of LA for it to work.

In other words, Zos is more and more encouraging AC. BTW, for the most basic aspect of AC that would be bar swap. Unless a player is very slow they are animation canceling on bar swap. So most players animation cancel quite often. If they are bar swapping slow enough that AC does not happen (or do not bar swap at all) then AC is the least of their issues.

starkerealm · February 2020

Would you all kindly please shut the hell up about animation cancelling!?

idk wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

pod88kk wrote: »

Without animation cancelling combat feels clunky(eg. Cast times on ultis) and slow

Yep exactly. Without animation cancel, there's no point in using light/heavy attacks, so just unbind Mouse 1.

While there would be a point of doing a heavy attack to gain resources but one does not weave a HA into a skill as the HA has to complete.

But you have a point concerning Zos' thoughts on this matter. They have double downed on the weaving of basic attacks which is the second most basic aspects of AC. Zos not only increased the damage LAs twice they have created sets that encourage weaving. Then Zos created a spamable skill in the Psijic line that specifically requires weaving of LA for it to work.

In other words, Zos is more and more encouraging AC. BTW, for the most basic aspect of AC that would be bar swap. Unless a player is very slow they are animation canceling on bar swap. So most players animation cancel quite often. If they are bar swapping slow enough that AC does not happen (or do not bar swap at all) then AC is the least of their issues.

If anything, removing animation canceling entirely would encourage players to do nothing but light attack for DPS.

Also, fun trivial, if you're in a locked state (such as channeling an ability) when you attempt to bar swap, the swap fails, keeping you on that bar. Removing animation canceling would turn all attacks into a locked state, so bar swapping in combat would require you to stop DPSing, swap, then continue. This would feel terrible to the flow of gameplay.

Dusk_Coven · February 2020

Animation cancelling needs to be a high priority discussion for ESO

Karmanorway wrote: »

Or u know... Maybe bother to try to learn something New that can benefit you too? instead of taking it away from everyone else who already bothered to learn it? Just a suggestions ofc...

"I want to learn japanese, but its too hard, so i think we should just remove the language, then I dont have any issues with japanese anymore"

Nah. Japanese is easy. Just stop after speaking the first syllable then raise your hands to block. I'm sure they'll figure out the rest of your sentence from there.

BlueRaven · February 2020

Animation cancelling needs to be a high priority discussion for ESO

Juhasow wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Its an unintended feature within the game zo$ tried to remove but yet could not do so and turn it into a skill line so to say I would say that is a bug and needs to be removed

BZZZZT.

Like it or not A/C being in the game just shows zo$ cant fix their own game as they DID NOT ATTEND FOR A/C TO BE IN THE GAME FROM THE START AND EVEN TRIED TO FIX IT BUT COULDN'T

Any evidence for that claim ?

This is from April of 2014;

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/85594/major-combat-flaw-animation-canceling-damage-stacking-devs-please-look-here/p1

Then skip ahead to reply #74, Jessica Folsom wrote; "Thank you all for the details in this thread. We're looking into this."

It was only afterwards did they decided to keep it.

Juhasow · February 2020

Would you all kindly please shut the hell up about animation cancelling!?

BlueRaven wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Its an unintended feature within the game zo$ tried to remove but yet could not do so and turn it into a skill line so to say I would say that is a bug and needs to be removed

BZZZZT.

Like it or not A/C being in the game just shows zo$ cant fix their own game as they DID NOT ATTEND FOR A/C TO BE IN THE GAME FROM THE START AND EVEN TRIED TO FIX IT BUT COULDN'T

Any evidence for that claim ?

This is from April of 2014;

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/85594/major-combat-flaw-animation-canceling-damage-stacking-devs-please-look-here/p1

Then skip ahead to reply #74, Jessica Folsom wrote; "Thank you all for the details in this thread. We're looking into this."

It was only afterwards did they decided to keep it.

And where in that thread ZoS employee gives evidence I asked for ? There was very specific claim in the post I quoted and I asked for evidence to that claim. There is no evidence like that in thread You've posted. Community manager saying "Thank you all for the details in this thread. We're looking into this." is far from saying " WE DID NOT ATTEND FOR A/C TO BE IN THE GAME FROM THE START AND EVEN TRIED TO FIX IT WE COULDN'T"

L2Pissue · February 2020

Animation cancelling is just horrible.
It needs to be removed to make ESO great again
make ESO payable!!
it's not @L2Pissue, it's a fact.
if you don't believe look at the number of ESO players becoming less and less in PVE
And less also in PVP because lag and AC

idk · February 2020

starkerealm wrote: »

idk wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

pod88kk wrote: »

Without animation cancelling combat feels clunky(eg. Cast times on ultis) and slow

Yep exactly. Without animation cancel, there's no point in using light/heavy attacks, so just unbind Mouse 1.

While there would be a point of doing a heavy attack to gain resources but one does not weave a HA into a skill as the HA has to complete.

But you have a point concerning Zos' thoughts on this matter. They have double downed on the weaving of basic attacks which is the second most basic aspects of AC. Zos not only increased the damage LAs twice they have created sets that encourage weaving. Then Zos created a spamable skill in the Psijic line that specifically requires weaving of LA for it to work.

In other words, Zos is more and more encouraging AC. BTW, for the most basic aspect of AC that would be bar swap. Unless a player is very slow they are animation canceling on bar swap. So most players animation cancel quite often. If they are bar swapping slow enough that AC does not happen (or do not bar swap at all) then AC is the least of their issues.

If anything, removing animation canceling entirely would encourage players to do nothing but light attack for DPS.

Also, fun trivial, if you're in a locked state (such as channeling an ability) when you attempt to bar swap, the swap fails, keeping you on that bar. Removing animation canceling would turn all attacks into a locked state, so bar swapping in combat would require you to stop DPSing, swap, then continue. This would feel terrible to the flow of gameplay.

Possibly. I have seen I it in Cyrodiil. However my point is more players AC that some realize and few AC to extreemes. In either case it does not make the difference between the top sustained dps and even those pulling between 30-40k let along those that only muster sub

L2Pissue wrote: »

Animation cancelling is just horrible.
It needs to be removed to make ESO great again
make ESO payable!!
it's not @L2Pissue, it's a fact.
if you don't believe look at the number of ESO players becoming less and less in PVE
And less also in PVP because lag and AC

ESO is great because of animation canceling. That is a fact. It is a major part of what separates ESO from antiquated simplistic games and their boring combat such as WoW and FF14.

Granted we clearly have a difference in opinion but the real fact is that AC is not going anywhere anytime soon.

gamergirldk · February 2020

Would you all kindly please shut the hell up about animation cancelling!?

Why do ppl find this so hard?..do u really want to wait and get stuck in long animations?? Like activating Wardens betty netch takes forever...just press the darn button and bar swap and you ready for next action..

Just let the dead horse rest in peace..

phermitgb · February 2020

Animation cancelling needs to be a high priority discussion for ESO

ZeroXFF wrote: »

raegun wrote: »

Most people who have a strong negative opinion on animation canceling do not understand what it is. If one has time to complain about it on the forums then they should also have time to watch this 8 min video explaining the concept. I do believe that it would be good of the devs to address canceling but only because latency greatly effects the speed at which one needs to hit the next skill to cancel the light attack animation and lower speed connections have more trouble completing the action not to say one cannot adapt, take ausie players for example

[url="http://"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMhrzCvFOUg[/url]

Most people who have a strong positive opinion of ESO's implementation of it don't understand design. They would defend volume controls like this, because it's "unique" and "fast-paced" or something.

I have to admit, that "game" looks awesome. Reminds me of...can't remember what it was called. Old (very old) MS-DOS used to have a series of basic (literally, BASIC) games, including one that was a basic physics based projectile launcher that worked just like that - you had to type in the angle of your weapon and a power level for the projectile speed, and then try to hit a target.

totally unrelated to your post point, sorry about that - just, brought up memories

[Deleted User] · February 2020

Hello everyone,

Recently we've had to remove a few posts for baiting and flaming, content that is against the Forum Rules. For further posts be sure to stay constructive and respectful to avoid thread derailment.

Thank you for understanding.

BlueRaven · February 2020

Animation cancelling needs to be a high priority discussion for ESO

Juhasow wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Its an unintended feature within the game zo$ tried to remove but yet could not do so and turn it into a skill line so to say I would say that is a bug and needs to be removed

BZZZZT.

Like it or not A/C being in the game just shows zo$ cant fix their own game as they DID NOT ATTEND FOR A/C TO BE IN THE GAME FROM THE START AND EVEN TRIED TO FIX IT BUT COULDN'T

Any evidence for that claim ?

This is from April of 2014;

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/85594/major-combat-flaw-animation-canceling-damage-stacking-devs-please-look-here/p1

Then skip ahead to reply #74, Jessica Folsom wrote; "Thank you all for the details in this thread. We're looking into this."

It was only afterwards did they decided to keep it.

And where in that thread ZoS employee gives evidence I asked for ? There was very specific claim in the post I quoted and I asked for evidence to that claim. There is no evidence like that in thread You've posted. Community manager saying "Thank you all for the details in this thread. We're looking into this." is far from saying " WE DID NOT ATTEND FOR A/C TO BE IN THE GAME FROM THE START AND EVEN TRIED TO FIX IT WE COULDN'T"

First; Seriously? This shows that the devs were not aware that the function exists.

ESO was released on April 4th, 2014. This is a post from the month it launched reporting that AC exists and that it needs to be looked into. And you then you have Jessica Folsom NOT saying that this is "An intended game play mode". Rather she gives the "Thank you all for the details in this thread. We're looking into this." As if it was NOT intended and they will look into it on their end. So not intended.

Second; I like how you demand other people supply links but you do not use any links to support anything you say.

Third,

https://youtu.be/2lhbH7PdEU0

44:30
Q :"Animation cancelling has been declared an exploit for months...." The question even goes on to state how "The devs are working on it."

A: "Animation Cancelling, we are embracing it..." NOT it was always intended. They have decided to embrace it.... Almost a full year AFTER the release of the game.

•••

Now if you think this was ALWAYS intended, please show me a link BEFORE Feb 17, 2015 where they said that this was an intended mechanic in the game.

Kalante · February 2020

ANIMATION CANCELLING IS THE MOST IMPORTANT SUBJECT EVER!!!

BlueRaven wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Its an unintended feature within the game zo$ tried to remove but yet could not do so and turn it into a skill line so to say I would say that is a bug and needs to be removed

BZZZZT.

Like it or not A/C being in the game just shows zo$ cant fix their own game as they DID NOT ATTEND FOR A/C TO BE IN THE GAME FROM THE START AND EVEN TRIED TO FIX IT BUT COULDN'T

Any evidence for that claim ?

This is from April of 2014;

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/85594/major-combat-flaw-animation-canceling-damage-stacking-devs-please-look-here/p1

Then skip ahead to reply #74, Jessica Folsom wrote; "Thank you all for the details in this thread. We're looking into this."

It was only afterwards did they decided to keep it.

And where in that thread ZoS employee gives evidence I asked for ? There was very specific claim in the post I quoted and I asked for evidence to that claim. There is no evidence like that in thread You've posted. Community manager saying "Thank you all for the details in this thread. We're looking into this." is far from saying " WE DID NOT ATTEND FOR A/C TO BE IN THE GAME FROM THE START AND EVEN TRIED TO FIX IT WE COULDN'T"

First; Seriously? This shows that the devs were not aware that the function exists.

ESO was released on April 4th, 2014. This is a post from the month it launched reporting that AC exists and that it needs to be looked into. And you then you have Jessica Folsom NOT saying that this is "An intended game play mode". Rather she gives the "Thank you all for the details in this thread. We're looking into this." As if it was NOT intended and they will look into it on their end. So not intended.

Second; I like how you demand other people supply links but you do not use any links to support anything you say.

Third,

https://youtu.be/2lhbH7PdEU0

44:30
Q :"Animation cancelling has been declared an exploit for months...." The question even goes on to state how "The devs are working on it."

A: "Animation Cancelling, we are embracing it..." NOT it was always intended. They have decided to embrace it.... Almost a full year AFTER the release of the game.

•••

Now if you think this was ALWAYS intended, please show me a link BEFORE Feb 17, 2015 where they said that this was an intended mechanic in the game.

Can't believe I would ever say this but damn I miss wrobel.

Nordic__Knights · February 2020

Juhasow wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Its an unintended feature within the game zo$ tried to remove but yet could not do so and turn it into a skill line so to say I would say that is a bug and needs to be removed

BZZZZT.

Like it or not A/C being in the game just shows zo$ cant fix their own game as they DID NOT ATTEND FOR A/C TO BE IN THE GAME FROM THE START AND EVEN TRIED TO FIX IT BUT COULDN'T

Any evidence for that claim ?

https://youtu.be/ThZtwhYkKSs

There you go this states it wasn't attended only reason they let it be was because they couldn't fix the issue in coding that let it be

Juhasow · February 2020

Would you all kindly please shut the hell up about animation cancelling!?

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Its an unintended feature within the game zo$ tried to remove but yet could not do so and turn it into a skill line so to say I would say that is a bug and needs to be removed

BZZZZT.

Like it or not A/C being in the game just shows zo$ cant fix their own game as they DID NOT ATTEND FOR A/C TO BE IN THE GAME FROM THE START AND EVEN TRIED TO FIX IT BUT COULDN'T

Any evidence for that claim ?

https://youtu.be/ThZtwhYkKSs

There you go this states it wasn't attended only reason they let it be was because they couldn't fix the issue in coding that let it be

No. Do You even hear what Wrobel is saying ? Like wtf what You're claiming he's saying and what he's actually saying are two completly different things. There is nothing even close to saying that "they did not attend for A/C to be in the game from the start and even tried to fix it but they couldn't" or that "there was some issue in the coding that let it be". Those are completed lies You've created to support Your bias and shows how little You know about Animation cancelling.

All i see is just ZoS employee finally ending speculations is it allowed or not by saying it's allowed , it's a part of the game and they want people to be doing it then he explains why they want it in the game (and that actually have nothing to do with some code mistake they cannot fix) and at the end he encourages people to use it . That is very far from what was claimed and that video is no evidence at all. Seriously linking random video of ZoS dev speaking about animation cancelling is not a proff for very specific claim someone is making.

Nordic__Knights · February 2020

Juhasow wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Its an unintended feature within the game zo$ tried to remove but yet could not do so and turn it into a skill line so to say I would say that is a bug and needs to be removed

BZZZZT.

Like it or not A/C being in the game just shows zo$ cant fix their own game as they DID NOT ATTEND FOR A/C TO BE IN THE GAME FROM THE START AND EVEN TRIED TO FIX IT BUT COULDN'T

Any evidence for that claim ?

https://youtu.be/ThZtwhYkKSs

There you go this states it wasn't attended only reason they let it be was because they couldn't fix the issue in coding that let it be

No. Do You even hear what Wrobel is saying ? Like wtf what You're claiming he's saying and what he's actually saying are two completly different things. There is nothing even close to saying that "they did not attend for A/C to be in the game from the start and even tried to fix it but they couldn't" or that "there was some issue in the coding that let it be". Those are completed lies You've created to support Your bias and shows how little You know about Animation cancelling.

All i see is just ZoS employee finally ending speculations is it allowed or not by saying it's allowed , it's a part of the game and they want people to be doing it then he explains why they want it in the game (and that actually have nothing to do with some code mistake they cannot fix) and at the end he encourages people to use it . That is very far from what was claimed and that video is no evidence at all. Seriously linking random video of ZoS dev speaking about animation cancelling is not a proff for very specific claim someone is making.

He said we're embracing it if it was attended you wouldn't need to embrace it he would have said it was an attended ability or form of the game but since he said embracing it lets you know that it was not intended

Nordic__Knights · February 2020

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Was A/C an attended feature to the game????