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Animation Cancelling the most important issue?
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Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other, and the reason for having an "other" option is important enough that I'll explain why...To the degree that animation cancelling negatively impacts performance, it is that important.4 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Would you all kindly please shut the hell up about animation cancelling!?Sandman929 wrote: »To the degree that animation cancelling negatively impacts performance, it is that important.
It's no more load than spamming the same skill over and over"It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard1 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other, and the reason for having an "other" option is important enough that I'll explain why...Siohwenoeht wrote: »Sandman929 wrote: »To the degree that animation cancelling negatively impacts performance, it is that important.
It's no more load than spamming the same skill over and over
I'm not saying it does. If it doesn't it not important so leave it alone.0 -
Paramedicus✭✭✭✭Animation cancelling needs to be a high priority discussion for ESO
How do you know that? Anti-skill (button) spam can be client side feature (i.e. ignore same input if used too quick), while weaving (in intervals as short as 50ms) must be noticed server-side.Siohwenoeht wrote: »Sandman929 wrote: »To the degree that animation cancelling negatively impacts performance, it is that important.
It's no more load than spamming the same skill over and over
PC EU/script JumpToHouse("@Paramedicus")↑↑↑ Feel free to visit my house if you need to use Transmute Station or vet Trial Dummy with buffs and Aetherial Well (look for the Harrowing Reaper on the northern rock wall) ↑↑↑1 -
Elwendryll✭✭✭✭✭
✭Animation cancelling should be a low priority discussion for ESONot much to talk about.
Water is wet, fire burns, LAs/bash and bar swapping are off the GCD.
In my opinion the only relevant discussion that will ever lead somewhere is about what animations should be prioritized.PC - EU - France - AD
Main character: Qojikrin - Khajiit Sorcerer Tank/Stamina DD - since March 25, 2015.
Guildmaster of Oriflamme: Focus on 4 player endgame content.
Member of Brave Cat Trade, Panda Division and Toadhuggers.
All 4-man trifectas - TTT, IR, GH1 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Would you all kindly please shut the hell up about animation cancelling!?Paramedicus wrote: »
How do you know that? Anti-skill (button) spam can be client side feature (i.e. ignore same input if used too quick), while weaving (in intervals as short as 50ms) must be noticed server-side.Siohwenoeht wrote: »Sandman929 wrote: »To the degree that animation cancelling negatively impacts performance, it is that important.
It's no more load than spamming the same skill over and over
They moved all those measures server side due to hacks/cheating long ago. The server tracks your movement, the server tracks ult gen, the server tracks your position in space etc.
As far as light/heavy attacks, for the server it is just another input, same as a skill. For the code they are the same thing, just on separate cooldowns.Edited by Siohwenoeht on January 31, 2020 8:44AM"It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard1 -
Strike_Maximus✭✭✭Animation cancelling should be just as important as all the other ESO featuresStrike_Maximus wrote: »I dislike animation cancelling becase it's an uninetentianl "feature", however, I belive if they want to make it apart of the game in a 100% offical capacity IT SHOULD BE EXPLANED TO NEW PLAYERS, if it's never going to be explaned then it's just this weird freatue in the game that many people use and others don't understand or know about.
If this unnentential feature was never in the game no one would care, but since it is either explan it in a tutorial or get rid of it simple as that.
Like this?
That is NOT refering to animation cancelling. If anything that is talking about weaving.
(edited for spelling)Edited by Strike_Maximus on January 31, 2020 8:46AMPC/NA/DC
CP 810Garin Maximus, Breton, Dragonknight, Confused (Crafter)
Vertalius Maximus, Imperial, Templar, Tank
Vistilia Maximus, Imperial, Magicka Templar, Healer
Stormproof - Rowlan Maximus, Breton, Pet Sorc, DPS (MAIN)
Theottus Maximus, Imperial, Stam night blade, DPS
Stedus Maximus, Imperial, Magicka Templar, DPS
Dexion Maximus, Imperial, Magicka Necromancer, DPS4 -
AgaTheGreat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Would you all kindly please shut the hell up about animation cancelling!?Strike_Maximus wrote: »Strike_Maximus wrote: »I dislike animation cancelling becase it's an uninetentianl "feature", however, I belive if they want to make it apart of the game in a 100% offical capacity IT SHOULD BE EXPLANED TO NEW PLAYERS, if it's never going to be explaned then it's just this weird freatue in the game that many people use and others don't understand or know about.
If this unnentential feature was never in the game no one would care, but since it is either explan it in a tutorial or get rid of it simple as that.
Like this?
That is NOT refering to animation cancelling. If anything that is talking about weaving.
(edited for spelling)
Weaving is animation cancelling. The animation of the light attack is cancelled by the skillPS4 EU Aga_The_Grey - retired | PC EU AgaTheGreat8 -
Kaartinen✭✭✭Would you all kindly please shut the hell up about animation cancelling!?The potatoes need to be stopped.1
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snoozy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Animation cancelling should be a low priority discussion for ESOhow to make a meaningful poll 101PC EU0 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Animation cancelling should be just as important as all the other ESO featuresAnimation canceling in of itself isn’t the issue. It’s in-game visuals not matching what happens.
Isn't that kind of the side effect of canceling animation? The game can only respond so fast. Even some FGC engines have trouble and I am pretty sure that those have lower latency than an MMO
Sort of, but not entirely.
The problem with how this game handles animation cancelling is that effects fire at the beginning of an animation instead of at the end. This means we get the wonky “I start swinging my mace, cancel it with block, and somehow still hit with my mace anyway” nonsense. That’s what I want to see gone. Cancelling should absolutely stay, but doing it should also cancel the ability it is interrupting too in most cases.
Why?
Because it makes logical sense for what is happening visually on the screen to match what the game is calculating behind the scenes? All well-polished games with real-time combat hit this basic benchmark. I mean, if that isn't enough by itself, I don't know what to tell you. It'd be one thing if psi was a thing in this game - in which case characters doing things without appearing to actually do things might make some sense - but it isn't.4 -
CMDR_Un1k0rn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Would you all kindly please shut the hell up about animation cancelling!?I can't do DPS well so I play Tank when it counts.
Easy solution really.In-game username: Un1korn | Happy member of the PCNA UESP guild (Resident Daggerfall Covenant enjoyer) | Main & basically only character: Crucian Vulpin, Imperial Dragonknight of the Daggerfall Covenant, and Undaunted Bulwark (I tank) | Mountain bike enjoyer and vulpine appreciator | If you know me from PCEU: No | To ZOS: THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME BRING MY HORSE INTO BATTLE!0 -
raegun✭✭Most people who have a strong negative opinion on animation canceling do not understand what it is. If one has time to complain about it on the forums then they should also have time to watch this 8 min video explaining the concept. I do believe that it would be good of the devs to address canceling but only because latency greatly effects the speed at which one needs to hit the next skill to cancel the light attack animation and lower speed connections have more trouble completing the action not to say one cannot adapt, take ausie players for example
[url="
http://"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMhrzCvFOUg[/url]
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ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭Animation cancelling needs to be a high priority discussion for ESOMost people who have a strong negative opinion on animation canceling do not understand what it is. If one has time to complain about it on the forums then they should also have time to watch this 8 min video explaining the concept. I do believe that it would be good of the devs to address canceling but only because latency greatly effects the speed at which one needs to hit the next skill to cancel the light attack animation and lower speed connections have more trouble completing the action not to say one cannot adapt, take ausie players for example
[url="http://"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMhrzCvFOUg[/url]
Most people who have a strong positive opinion of ESO's implementation of it don't understand design. They would defend volume controls like this, because it's "unique" and "fast-paced" or something.
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Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Animation cancelling should be just as important as all the other ESO featuresMost people who have a strong negative opinion on animation canceling do not understand what it is. If one has time to complain about it on the forums then they should also have time to watch this 8 min video explaining the concept. I do believe that it would be good of the devs to address canceling but only because latency greatly effects the speed at which one needs to hit the next skill to cancel the light attack animation and lower speed connections have more trouble completing the action not to say one cannot adapt, take ausie players for example
[url="http://"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMhrzCvFOUg[/url]
Most people who have a strong positive opinion of ESO's implementation of it don't understand design. They would defend volume controls like this, because it's "unique" and "fast-paced" or something.
Ahahahahah! That's... that's awesome.
And I hate to say it, but the design of that interface still makes more sense than animation cancelling in ESO - the visuals clearly match what is going to happen with your volume output. No, if that volume slider represented animation cancelling in ESO, it wouldn't matter how long you held down the speaker button... the volume would be at maximum every single time.3 -
DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Other, and the reason for having an "other" option is important enough that I'll explain why...Get rid of it.1 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Animation cancelling needs to be a high priority discussion for ESOAnimation Cancelling is an important discussion because it exposes a play pattern in the ESO community.
A lot of the supporters are simply interested in subverting the game and then using whatever they can to justify their actions all the while realizing that what they are doing defies common sense -- getting benefits from something they cancelled.
If the NPC/monster enemies in the game used animation cancelling -- if bosses and critters blocked for no reason other than to squeeze in more attacks, if they light-attack weaved and you barely see it... if their animations never completed successfully... this game would be a non-starter. It'd be the laughing stock of the gaming world and no one would even have played it.
More importantly, it exposes how the ZOS combat team makes decisions.Edited by Dusk_Coven on January 31, 2020 5:21PM7 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭Would you all kindly please shut the hell up about animation cancelling!?Performance is, animation cancelling is a skill cap.Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
Kill Counter Developer
For the Daggerfall Covenant
The Last Chillrend Empress
Animation Cancelling0 -
r34lian✭✭✭✭✭
✭Other, and the reason for having an "other" option is important enough that I'll explain why...One thing never get is when people associate animation cancelling with skill yeah takes lots of skill to mash two buttons simultaneously right?
More like saying using scripts for hacks require skill lmao2000 CP • 18 Maxed Characters • 6 Altmers • 7 Redguards • Necromancer Orc • Warden Dunmer • DK Nord • DK Imperial • Templar Breton3 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Animation cancelling should be just as important as all the other ESO featuresDusk_Coven wrote: »The fact that it needs to be revealed to players … because most reasonable people would not suspect it should even work because it's illogical.
Yeah, in every other game I've played that allows animation cancelling, the cancel also makes your abilities not fire. Because that just... makes logical sense. Want to cancel the firing your burst-fire gun with a reload after the first shot of that five round burst? Sure, but it's not gonna keep shooting those other four bullets because... that would make no darned sense. You're reloading.Edited by Starlock on January 31, 2020 5:32PM8 -
p00tx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Would you all kindly please shut the hell up about animation cancelling!?Animation canceling in of itself isn’t the issue. It’s in-game visuals not matching what happens.
Isn't that kind of the side effect of canceling animation? The game can only respond so fast. Even some FGC engines have trouble and I am pretty sure that those have lower latency than an MMO
Sort of, but not entirely.
The problem with how this game handles animation cancelling is that effects fire at the beginning of an animation instead of at the end. This means we get the wonky “I start swinging my mace, cancel it with block, and somehow still hit with my mace anyway” nonsense. That’s what I want to see gone. Cancelling should absolutely stay, but doing it should also cancel the ability it is interrupting too in most cases.
Why?
Because it makes logical sense for what is happening visually on the screen to match what the game is calculating behind the scenes? All well-polished games with real-time combat hit this basic benchmark. I mean, if that isn't enough by itself, I don't know what to tell you. It'd be one thing if psi was a thing in this game - in which case characters doing things without appearing to actually do things might make some sense - but it isn't.
But...ESO isn't "other games". There's a reason so many of us hang around, in spite of the abject brokenness and constant lag and stutters. This game offers something different. You can either be a one button wonder, spamming the same attack over and over while watching the entire animation, or you can choose to play competitively and bypass that. If you don't want to cancel your animations, but you're still doing it enough to be annoyed that it can be done, I'd say you're probably doing something wrong. It's not their (ZOS's) job to safeguard against people being unable to abide by their own made up rules regarding how the game should be played.PC/Xbox NA
Unchained | Unstoppable | Mindmender | Swashbuckler Supreme | Planes Breaker | Dawnbringer | Godslayer | Immortal Redeemer | Gryphon Heart | Tick-tock Tormentor | Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Stormproof | Grand Overlord | Grand Mastercrafter | Master Grappler | Tamriel Hero3 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Would you all kindly please shut the hell up about animation cancelling!?IDK the way things go in this game if AC got removed/replaced we would probably end up with new bugs which would be much worse.4 -
Taemiru✭✭✭Would you all kindly please shut the hell up about animation cancelling!?One thing never get is when people associate animation cancelling with skill yeah takes lots of skill to mash two buttons simultaneously right?
More like saying using scripts for hacks require skill lmao
Script will never outdamage a good player.
And seeing how many people can't press two buttons every second and generally struggling with dps, one can say that there is some skill involved.4 -
Emmagoldman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Would you all kindly please shut the hell up about animation cancelling!?Performance is the MOST important issue by a long shot, then managing balance in a proper way. These two issues by far impact the player base.
3 -
MEBengalsFan2001✭✭✭✭✭Animation cancelling should be just as important as all the other ESO featuresAnimation cancelling is very common in games. Other games have resolved this by enforcing the animation if you want the damage. Now there is a difference between animation cancelling and weaving attacks between abilities.
An example of animation cancelling is jumping to cancel an animation and than using another ability while jumping and than doing a light attack to cancel the animation of the ability and than jumping to cancel the light attack animation, etc... those are animation cancelling.
Simply doing an ability, light attack, ability, etc... is not animation cancelling but light attack weaving which is OK from experience.
Animation cancelling is when you are able to produce extra damage without producing the animation of the ability and going into another ability animation.
Most games allow shields to cancel other ability animation because a shield provides zero damage bonus but that animation cannot be cancelled.1 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Animation cancelling should be just as important as all the other ESO featuresAnimation canceling in of itself isn’t the issue. It’s in-game visuals not matching what happens.
Isn't that kind of the side effect of canceling animation? The game can only respond so fast. Even some FGC engines have trouble and I am pretty sure that those have lower latency than an MMO
Sort of, but not entirely.
The problem with how this game handles animation cancelling is that effects fire at the beginning of an animation instead of at the end. This means we get the wonky “I start swinging my mace, cancel it with block, and somehow still hit with my mace anyway” nonsense. That’s what I want to see gone. Cancelling should absolutely stay, but doing it should also cancel the ability it is interrupting too in most cases.
Why?
Because it makes logical sense for what is happening visually on the screen to match what the game is calculating behind the scenes? All well-polished games with real-time combat hit this basic benchmark. I mean, if that isn't enough by itself, I don't know what to tell you. It'd be one thing if psi was a thing in this game - in which case characters doing things without appearing to actually do things might make some sense - but it isn't.
But...ESO isn't "other games". There's a reason so many of us hang around, in spite of the abject brokenness and constant lag and stutters. This game offers something different. You can either be a one button wonder, spamming the same attack over and over while watching the entire animation, or you can choose to play competitively and bypass that. If you don't want to cancel your animations, but you're still doing it enough to be annoyed that it can be done, I'd say you're probably doing something wrong. It's not their (ZOS's) job to safeguard against people being unable to abide by their own made up rules regarding how the game should be played.
Huh? How does any of this address what I said? There's nothing in here that negates the logic of "gee, if you cancel an ability it really makes sense for the ability to actually be cancelled."Edited by Starlock on January 31, 2020 9:00PM3 -
witchdoctor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Would you all kindly please shut the hell up about animation cancelling!?Animation canceling in of itself isn’t the issue. It’s in-game visuals not matching what happens.
Isn't that kind of the side effect of canceling animation? The game can only respond so fast. Even some FGC engines have trouble and I am pretty sure that those have lower latency than an MMO
Sort of, but not entirely.
The problem with how this game handles animation cancelling is that effects fire at the beginning of an animation instead of at the end. This means we get the wonky “I start swinging my mace, cancel it with block, and somehow still hit with my mace anyway” nonsense. That’s what I want to see gone. Cancelling should absolutely stay, but doing it should also cancel the ability it is interrupting too in most cases.
Why?
Because it makes logical sense for what is happening visually on the screen to match what the game is calculating behind the scenes? All well-polished games with real-time combat hit this basic benchmark. I mean, if that isn't enough by itself, I don't know what to tell you. It'd be one thing if psi was a thing in this game - in which case characters doing things without appearing to actually do things might make some sense - but it isn't.
But...ESO isn't "other games". There's a reason so many of us hang around, in spite of the abject brokenness and constant lag and stutters. This game offers something different. You can either be a one button wonder, spamming the same attack over and over while watching the entire animation, or you can choose to play competitively and bypass that. If you don't want to cancel your animations, but you're still doing it enough to be annoyed that it can be done, I'd say you're probably doing something wrong. It's not their (ZOS's) job to safeguard against people being unable to abide by their own made up rules regarding how the game should be played.
Huh? How does any of this address what I said? There's nothing in here that negates the logic of "gee, if you cancel an ability it really makes sense for the ability to actually be cancelled."
Because, 'Gee, you only cancelled the animation AFTER the point at which the skill did damage. Golly!'
Cancel too early, bumpkiss. Cancel after the point damage is done, profit.0
This discussion has been closed.