MagBlade Theorycrafting Changes Thread

fred4 · January 2020

Scathing looks like 100% uptime, as long as you are in combat. Unlike, say, Spell Strategist, this will buff healing, but then again Swallow Soul keys off damage done, so it's a wash there.

fred4 · January 2020

Couple of things that stood out to me:

The Major Berserk set will be widely used, I think. It'll probably suit tanky players, much like Fury, and that's probably not a good thing for the game. On the other hand, NBs control the pacing of the fight. They might engineer it so that the set is up when they want it... if they have a burst heal for after a CC. Might suit a Rally using stamblade more and I suspect I will still prefer an Immovability potion for ganking rather than counting on being CCd.

The buff to Elf Bane will suit Zaan users, but is really more of a duelling thing, I suspect.

Darloc Brae would appear to be broken on live. Free resources while using Shield Wall by the sounds of it.

Langeston · January 2020

fred4 wrote: »

Scathing looks like 100% uptime, as long as you are in combat. Unlike, say, Spell Strategist, this will buff healing, but then again Swallow Soul keys off damage done, so it's a wash there.

How do you figure? It's still a 20% chance to proc, no? My guess would be an uptime of ~83% tops, and that's probably very optimistic. Am I missing something?

It's definitely better for lower crit builds now though. Should make it more viable in BGs.

fred4 · January 2020

Langeston wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Scathing looks like 100% uptime, as long as you are in combat. Unlike, say, Spell Strategist, this will buff healing, but then again Swallow Soul keys off damage done, so it's a wash there.

How do you figure? It's still a 20% chance to proc, no? And now that the cooldown doesn't overlap it's literally impossible to be up 100%. My guess would be ~83% tops, and that's probably very optimistic. Am I missing something?

It's definitely better for lower crit builds now though. Should make it more viable in BGs.

Fair enough. I think I overlooked the proc chance, but also I'm a PvPer. 83% and 100% are near equivalent for me. I was thinking of either using Crushing Shock or Sweeps. I suppose a sorc, being single target, will be just as well served with Spell Strategist or another set, but a templar? This is basically New Moon Acolyte without the cost increase. Sweeps is direct damage now and presumably amounts to 4 proc chances.

Iskiab · January 2020

fred4 wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Scathing looks like 100% uptime, as long as you are in combat. Unlike, say, Spell Strategist, this will buff healing, but then again Swallow Soul keys off damage done, so it's a wash there.

How do you figure? It's still a 20% chance to proc, no? And now that the cooldown doesn't overlap it's literally impossible to be up 100%. My guess would be ~83% tops, and that's probably very optimistic. Am I missing something?

It's definitely better for lower crit builds now though. Should make it more viable in BGs.

Fair enough. I think I overlooked the proc chance, but also I'm a PvPer. 83% and 100% are near equivalent for me. I was thinking of either using Crushing Shock or Sweeps. I suppose a sorc, being single target, will be just as well served with Spell Strategist or another set, but a templar? This is basically New Moon Acolyte without the cost increase. Sweeps is direct damage now and presumably amounts to 4 proc chances.

Yea, scathing is good as a magtemplar. Still melee life will be a lot harder with dizzy stunning. The snare on ritual is gone too.

Both magplar and MagWarden got little nerfs. Invig drain will be useless which will hit magwarden. Snare on ritual gone which will hit magtemplar.

If there’s a winner this patch I’d say it’ll be stamWarden, maybe stamnecro depending on the Necro fixes. High burst stam classes will be really tough I think.

SRASinister · January 2020

What is everyone running for Bar setups especially on Destro/Restro? I have trouble fitting things on each of my bars without sacrificing something I need for survivability vs damage vs a cc. I also had trouble picking a mundus stone since people would recommend me apprentice, mage, thief, shadow or even the lover.

Iskiab · January 2020

SRASinister wrote: »

What is everyone running for Bar setups especially on Destro/Restro? I have trouble fitting things on each of my bars without sacrificing something I need for survivability vs damage vs a cc. I also had trouble picking a mundus stone since people would recommend me apprentice, mage, thief, shadow or even the lover.

There isn’t one way to set it up. Most magblade specs are missing a key thing in their builds, most specs are about how to overcome this weakness.

Only thing that’s required: stun, cloak, merciless, and a siphoning ability. Usually people go swallow soul as the spammable to save bar space, but since the ability sucks I usually try to avoid it.

SRASinister · January 2020

Iskiab wrote: »

SRASinister wrote: »

What is everyone running for Bar setups especially on Destro/Restro? I have trouble fitting things on each of my bars without sacrificing something I need for survivability vs damage vs a cc. I also had trouble picking a mundus stone since people would recommend me apprentice, mage, thief, shadow or even the lover.

There isn’t one way to set it up. Most magblade specs are missing a key thing in their builds, most specs are about how to overcome this weakness.

Only thing that’s required: stun, cloak, merciless, and a siphoning ability. Usually people go swallow soul as the spammable to save bar space, but since the ability sucks I usually try to avoid it.

Yeah I figured I would have to sacrifice skill slots. I guess I'll have to screw around with my bars in duels and compare that to pvp skills I need.

brandonv516 · January 2020

Changes to solo queues only in BGs will be awesome for Magblades.

There will still be many coordinated players (especially at a higher MMR) but without the premade balls I'll be dominating even more lol.

Iskiab · January 2020

brandonv516 wrote: »

Changes to solo queues only in BGs will be awesome for Magblades.

There will still be many coordinated players (especially at a higher MMR) but without the premade balls I'll be dominating even more lol.

Maybe PC-EU is different. On PC-NA there aren’t a lot of premades, and the ones you see aren’t dominant players. High MMR is mostly solo players who play together naturally without queueing together.

brandonv516 · January 2020

Iskiab wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Changes to solo queues only in BGs will be awesome for Magblades.

There will still be many coordinated players (especially at a higher MMR) but without the premade balls I'll be dominating even more lol.

Maybe PC-EU is different. On PC-NA there aren’t a lot of premades, and the ones you see aren’t dominant players. High MMR is mostly solo players who play together naturally without queueing together.

I'm Xbox NA. Plenty of ball group premades running around that I come up against.

kaithuzar · January 2020

fred4 wrote: »

"You can now only queue as a solo player into Battlegrounds."

This change seems huge to me and might just make life a bit easier for nightblades. No pre-made coordinated groups.

Check my post here... it's still going to be hell to deal with:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/508964/battle-ground-changes-solo-queue#latest

kaithuzar · January 2020

fred4 wrote: »

Scathing looks like 100% uptime, as long as you are in combat. Unlike, say, Spell Strategist, this will buff healing, but then again Swallow Soul keys off damage done, so it's a wash there.

I still think New Moon is better than scathing because of the added pen.
The cost is offset by breton + 1 reduce cost enchant.

kaithuzar · January 2020

Iskiab wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Changes to solo queues only in BGs will be awesome for Magblades.

There will still be many coordinated players (especially at a higher MMR) but without the premade balls I'll be dominating even more lol.

Maybe PC-EU is different. On PC-NA there aren’t a lot of premades, and the ones you see aren’t dominant players. High MMR is mostly solo players who play together naturally without queueing together.

There is at least 1 BG guild pcna & I would vote the queuing is currently 2-3 players going in together for high mmr bgs.

kaithuzar · January 2020

Iskiab wrote: »

See the PTS notes? Thoughts?

Main things:
- some set changes that might help a bit, hard to tell from notes
- Scathing mage might be good
- Dizzy will stun off balance targets, off balance will have a CD so will be up 1/3 of the time
- Single target abilities will be able to target people in stealth

Overall? Hard to say, I think things will be worse overall. Expect things to be harder 1v1, the last time dizzy stunned was when I quit magblade

We got 1 change while warden at least had 2, all other classes had multiple things. Just the fact of ONLY having 1 thing changed good or bad, implies they aren't planning on doing anything. #SadFace
There will likely be some availability for troll builds, but as far as magblade as a competitive, fair/straight up fighter, no dice.

Iskiab · January 2020

kaithuzar wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

See the PTS notes? Thoughts?

Main things:
- some set changes that might help a bit, hard to tell from notes
- Scathing mage might be good
- Dizzy will stun off balance targets, off balance will have a CD so will be up 1/3 of the time
- Single target abilities will be able to target people in stealth

Overall? Hard to say, I think things will be worse overall. Expect things to be harder 1v1, the last time dizzy stunned was when I quit magblade

We got 1 change while warden at least had 2, all other classes had multiple things. Just the fact of ONLY having 1 thing changed good or bad, implies they aren't planning on doing anything. #SadFace
There will likely be some availability for troll builds, but as far as magblade as a competitive, fair/straight up fighter, no dice.

Yea, I think so too. Last time dizzy stunned was what killed dark cloak BG builds.

One thing that hasn’t been mentioned is BRP DW on mag classes. With the cost reduced it’s a lot cheaper then a dodge roll or blocking. IDK how to take advantage of it yet.

I don’t really get how the magden changes will play out. Magplar changes will hit kiting Magplars and push more towards S&B back bar, so mainly a playstyle change aimed at reducing cross healing I think.

I think damage will be up across the board making shade and mist mandatory. Stam damage burst will be up making melee more dangerous.

I didn’t see any Vampire notes which is odd. Vampire meshes well with magblade so they might be adding some skills that would help magblades.

kaithuzar · January 2020

@Iskiab

vamp USE to mesh well w/nightblade, i don't think that's going to be the case this time.

Metemsycosis · January 2020

Shade and mist will still be potent no?

fred4 · January 2020

kaithuzar wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Scathing looks like 100% uptime, as long as you are in combat. Unlike, say, Spell Strategist, this will buff healing, but then again Swallow Soul keys off damage done, so it's a wash there.

I still think New Moon is better than scathing because of the added pen.
The cost is offset by breton + 1 reduce cost enchant.

IMO, if you're not eating the cost of New Moon by single barring it and adding heavy attacks or Meditate as needed, that set is highly questionable. However, I'm no longer saying Scathing will be great on magblade. Would have to test how much it procs in an actual magblade build.

Langeston · January 2020

fred4 wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Scathing looks like 100% uptime, as long as you are in combat. Unlike, say, Spell Strategist, this will buff healing, but then again Swallow Soul keys off damage done, so it's a wash there.

I still think New Moon is better than scathing because of the added pen.
The cost is offset by breton + 1 reduce cost enchant.

IMO, if you're not eating the cost of New Moon by single barring it and adding heavy attacks or Meditate as needed, that set is highly questionable. However, I'm no longer saying Scathing will be great on magblade. Would have to test how much it procs in an actual magblade build.

Agreed. In every case I've tried it, Spinner's has been the clear winner. (I'm sure there are use-cases where the opposite is true, but not in any of mine.) It's faulty logic to say "the cost is offset" by changing races — that's not how it works.

Iskiab · January 2020

Langeston wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Scathing looks like 100% uptime, as long as you are in combat. Unlike, say, Spell Strategist, this will buff healing, but then again Swallow Soul keys off damage done, so it's a wash there.

I still think New Moon is better than scathing because of the added pen.
The cost is offset by breton + 1 reduce cost enchant.

IMO, if you're not eating the cost of New Moon by single barring it and adding heavy attacks or Meditate as needed, that set is highly questionable. However, I'm no longer saying Scathing will be great on magblade. Would have to test how much it procs in an actual magblade build.

Agreed. In every case I've tried it, Spinner's has been the clear winner. (I'm sure there are use-cases where the opposite is true, but not in any of mine.) It's faulty logic to say "the cost is offset" by changing races — that's not how it works.

You’ll need to drop spinners imo after the patch. The pen will be uncompetitive with the amount of spell damage you can get from other sets.

kaithuzar · January 2020

Iskiab wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Scathing looks like 100% uptime, as long as you are in combat. Unlike, say, Spell Strategist, this will buff healing, but then again Swallow Soul keys off damage done, so it's a wash there.

I still think New Moon is better than scathing because of the added pen.
The cost is offset by breton + 1 reduce cost enchant.

IMO, if you're not eating the cost of New Moon by single barring it and adding heavy attacks or Meditate as needed, that set is highly questionable. However, I'm no longer saying Scathing will be great on magblade. Would have to test how much it procs in an actual magblade build.

Agreed. In every case I've tried it, Spinner's has been the clear winner. (I'm sure there are use-cases where the opposite is true, but not in any of mine.) It's faulty logic to say "the cost is offset" by changing races — that's not how it works.

You’ll need to drop spinners imo after the patch. The pen will be uncompetitive with the amount of spell damage you can get from other sets.

Example?

I think molag kena is going to be much better now that the cost is reduced. Spinner should be at/around top tier as always.

Iskiab · January 2020

kaithuzar wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Scathing looks like 100% uptime, as long as you are in combat. Unlike, say, Spell Strategist, this will buff healing, but then again Swallow Soul keys off damage done, so it's a wash there.

I still think New Moon is better than scathing because of the added pen.
The cost is offset by breton + 1 reduce cost enchant.

IMO, if you're not eating the cost of New Moon by single barring it and adding heavy attacks or Meditate as needed, that set is highly questionable. However, I'm no longer saying Scathing will be great on magblade. Would have to test how much it procs in an actual magblade build.

Agreed. In every case I've tried it, Spinner's has been the clear winner. (I'm sure there are use-cases where the opposite is true, but not in any of mine.) It's faulty logic to say "the cost is offset" by changing races — that's not how it works.

You’ll need to drop spinners imo after the patch. The pen will be uncompetitive with the amount of spell damage you can get from other sets.

Example?

I think molag kena is going to be much better now that the cost is reduced. Spinner should be at/around top tier as always.

Well, a lot of it is guesswork as always. I just think 500 sp > 3k pen, especially with buffs up. There are now multiple sets that give great uptime on high spell damage amounts.

Iskiab · January 2020

One set I tested that’s interesting is that draygrin’s set. From the tooltip it looked sort of crappy, but I wanted to get a better look just in case.

The way it works is the proc puts a debuff on your target so they take 500 more damage from everything, including any existing dot ticks. I have a feeling it’ll be popular amongst ranged magblade builds who like dots if that’s your thing. Templars will all be wearing kena so expect less rituals.

The proc rate is pretty low at 10%, but still decent I guess if enough dots are on someone.

Akinos · January 2020

i used to use kena on magblade back when i first started to play it solo alot, don't quite remember my build though but it worked well with destro melee spec. i'm so hype its getting a buff, along with my favorite spell damage set, clever alch

Iskiab · January 2020

Akinos wrote: »

i used to use kena on magblade back when i first started to play it solo alot, don't quite remember my build though but it worked well with destro melee spec. i'm so hype its getting a buff, along with my favorite spell damage set, clever alch

Yea, Kena will be a no brainer. On offense it’ll proc and on defense you don’t light attack much so don’t have to eat the cost.

I’m thinking clever alchemist, molag kena and darloc maybe. Pure ranged because burst is about to go through the roof.

Langeston · January 2020

Iskiab wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Scathing looks like 100% uptime, as long as you are in combat. Unlike, say, Spell Strategist, this will buff healing, but then again Swallow Soul keys off damage done, so it's a wash there.

I still think New Moon is better than scathing because of the added pen.
The cost is offset by breton + 1 reduce cost enchant.

IMO, if you're not eating the cost of New Moon by single barring it and adding heavy attacks or Meditate as needed, that set is highly questionable. However, I'm no longer saying Scathing will be great on magblade. Would have to test how much it procs in an actual magblade build.

Agreed. In every case I've tried it, Spinner's has been the clear winner. (I'm sure there are use-cases where the opposite is true, but not in any of mine.) It's faulty logic to say "the cost is offset" by changing races — that's not how it works.

You’ll need to drop spinners imo after the patch. The pen will be uncompetitive with the amount of spell damage you can get from other sets.

Example?

I think molag kena is going to be much better now that the cost is reduced. Spinner should be at/around top tier as always.

Well, a lot of it is guesswork as always. I just think 500 sp > 3k pen, especially with buffs up. There are now multiple sets that give great uptime on high spell damage amounts.

Are you taking the magicka into account? With 2192 magicka, (2520 w/ a Siphoning ability & Magelight) and the 129 SD, I think the 3450 pen from Spinner's is still competitive. Penetration is almost always more useful than SD in my experience.

kaithuzar · January 2020

Who else is gonna try elf bane + zaan + onslaught if they don’t nerf it?

kaithuzar · January 2020

fred4 wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Scathing looks like 100% uptime, as long as you are in combat. Unlike, say, Spell Strategist, this will buff healing, but then again Swallow Soul keys off damage done, so it's a wash there.

I still think New Moon is better than scathing because of the added pen.
The cost is offset by breton + 1 reduce cost enchant.

IMO, if you're not eating the cost of New Moon by single barring it and adding heavy attacks or Meditate as needed, that set is highly questionable. However, I'm no longer saying Scathing will be great on magblade. Would have to test how much it procs in an actual magblade build.

Yea I don’t mean scathing is bad, just that you pretty much have to use it with crushing shock, & it’s super annoying when fighting nightblades because they cloak for the duration of the proc then you have to proc again. If it could be kept up based on dots that would be fine like “while the dot is active aka doing damage, because cloak would suppress the dot & the buff would fall off, but when they came out of cloak if the dot was still on them, it would re-apply the buff w/o you needing to recast the dot.

Iskiab · January 2020

kaithuzar wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Scathing looks like 100% uptime, as long as you are in combat. Unlike, say, Spell Strategist, this will buff healing, but then again Swallow Soul keys off damage done, so it's a wash there.

I still think New Moon is better than scathing because of the added pen.
The cost is offset by breton + 1 reduce cost enchant.

IMO, if you're not eating the cost of New Moon by single barring it and adding heavy attacks or Meditate as needed, that set is highly questionable. However, I'm no longer saying Scathing will be great on magblade. Would have to test how much it procs in an actual magblade build.

Yea I don’t mean scathing is bad, just that you pretty much have to use it with crushing shock, & it’s super annoying when fighting nightblades because they cloak for the duration of the proc then you have to proc again. If it could be kept up based on dots that would be fine like “while the dot is active aka doing damage, because cloak would suppress the dot & the buff would fall off, but when they came out of cloak if the dot was still on them, it would re-apply the buff w/o you needing to recast the dot.

I tested it, it’s still pretty bad. Even on a magplar I found the proc unreliable. I’d look more at clever alchemist in a hit and run playstyle.