FierceSam wrote: »

Hey @MachoKen

First, in terms of elitism, it’s rubbish and stupid and players should all know better. Every one of them, no matter how supremely talented was in the position you’re in, and it’s a shame that they have clearly forgotten the many people who helped them or are too full of themselves to pass on their experience. It’s their problem and it’s the reason they find it hard to fill even the ‘fun runs’ their guilds host.

In terms of guilds, I’m in 5. I have found them both essential and very variable. I have some that are slightly chaotic, but full of great people, which I would never leave, and others that are full of fantastic expertise but populated by people with their heads so far up their arses I can barely stay there long enough to listen.

Every guild will have its own identity and personality, its own sense of direction and purpose. None of them will be the same. Sometimes you just have to join one on spec and try it out. If it doesn’t work for you, leave, try another, rinse repeat until you find one that fits. In terms of them doing the things you want at a time you can’t make, that’s tough, but realistically it’s hard making time to teach players and there are usually only a few (1 or 2) in each guild who will do this, so it’s the players who have to adapt.

Additionally, on PC at least, a non-trading Guild is as much about its discord than about anything in game. It’s there that all the interactions and guild events are managed as there are no tools to do this in game. So if you’re not engaging there as well, there’s a danger that you won’t actually see a lot of what the guild is doing.

TL:DR Elitists are arses. There are lots of good guilds. It might take a bit of time to find the right one for you but it’s out there and wants you to join.

Galwylin wrote: »

I personally have never seen this. Ever. Not saying it doesn't happen. Now I consider myself a pretty *** player. I've never gotten a whisper about how I play or even kicked from group. People have trudged on through with me. Maybe I'm better than I thought. But then I've never seen it happen to anyone I was grouped with. Again, maybe I just get awesome groups. I've a lot of issue with the game itself. And the forums are full of *** poor human beings at times. But in game folks are pretty easy to go along with. I know that folks (especially in group finder) don't tend to talk alot. Other day in public dungeon someone offered group and I accepted (even though the bosses were no issue for me) and we ran through it together got them all done and no one ever said a word that I could here. I even watched chat to see (not a big chat reader either).

I tend to keep to myself, group up for a dungeon every so often when in the mood. I don't think I've ever given anyone the impression I disapproved of them in some way so I figured folks don't find me offensive. Again it could all be happening outside of my vision. The forums don't represent the players to me. Forums are never good no matter the game.

So it seems a little unfair to say that players (elitist or not) are terrible to new players. New players that don't ask questions, maybe. I always see questions answered when someone asks. Sometimes you get a smart ass who isn't as clever as they think they are but there's always someone that answers questions in chat (when I read it). Its just unfair to paint so many with such a broad brush. I'm sure there are elitist in the game. I'm also sure they have to play with each other because no one could stomach their crap. That leaves a whole lot of others who don't act like that. Or at least I don't believe they do.

As to learning, its true. We all start at the bottom. I still die to trash more than I think is right and should have my gamer license revoked. But you just keep at it. Not one of us knows what your struggles are. Especially if they aren't expressed. Its hard to know when you're leaving someone behind because they are struggling or just on the phone. No one else can see or feel or experience what you are personally. I'm sure most times they aren't purposely making your experience bad on purpose. Cut them some slack and let them know, hey I'm doing this for the first time (even if its the tenth) and whatever I'm doing doesn't seem to be working. If people can't take five minutes to offer some kind of help then hope they kick you from the group or leave themselves because you really don't want to play with them. Remember they may be frustrated at you but that a their problem not yours. They have to deal with their anger no you so don't sweat it.

As for trials... I think pugging for trails is really a bad way to spend time in the game. No one does that. Now I saw that as someone who recently just joined a trail pug to great success. But i just seen someone asking and thought why not. I personally love this random draw of players you get in pugs. Always have. When they succeed it like become part of a myth. And when someone has a absolute breakdown its quite funny to me. Sure I've seen lots of pugs just fall all to pieces but I've always looked at that as part of the game experience. Finishing is great but I've always taken more fun from the journey. The game is really a big long series of fetch quests (I like fetch quests btw) so having others around can be a nice diversion. But I'd seriously look into finding a guild that you fit with instead of standing around trying to get a trial run together if you just want to reach the goal.

JanTanhide wrote: »

I feel your pain. Been in the game for over five years and have seen a few "Elitists" myself. When they somehow manage to get in a guild I am in it isn't long before they are kicked and now that we can do it banned as well.

It is a game after all and there really isn't room for that kind of behaviour in my opinion. I've kicked and banned a few myself these past few months.

As for running dungeons the harder content is tough to do in PUGs (Vet DLCs in particular). I don't have a lot of time these days but in the past I would take random people through Vet Fang Lair, Scalecaller Peak, Bloodroot Forge, etc. You get the idea. Sometimes these DLC Vet runs would take several hours and often more than not I never ended up with the same three players I started with. But in just about every case I found that being nice in Chat resulted in people being nice in return and not rage quitting with insults as they left Group. So maybe I got lucky with the people that joined. IDK to be fair.

For the tougher Vet dungeons I highly suggest (if possible) to get three of your guildies or friends in a group and run these dungeons over and over to get the Achievements. It will take time but if everyone enjoys the game it sure makes running the dungeons a lot of fun. Try to keep the same people and keep going after all the dungeon achievements like Speed Run, No Death and Hard Mode. Skins and personalities await you. LOL.

For Trials I haven't run them much lately. Sorta got bored with them over time. Use to be in a progression group and it was just too much work and time. Too many serious people wanting you to have a minimum of 60K DPS just to run with them. Nah, that isn't fun to me. As I have posted before I don't think I have ever gotten more than 35K on a test dummy yet I have done every Vet dungeon and most in hard mode. It doesn't take maniacally high DPS to beat the dungeons. You will hear it from some that you don't need a Healer in any Vet dungeon. Just run three DPS and a Tank or for some all DPS. Yes, they can run through these Vet dungeons with ease when each player is a minimum of 60K. Everything melts.

Back on point: But yes, I agree there should be a Group Finder for Trials. I know it will have it's issues just like it does now for dungeons but at least we will have a tool to use. Try running Black Rose Prison or Dragonstar Arena. Those are almost impossible to get a random group to do.

Good luck and I hope you find some good people to join with to get these dungeon runs completed.

Kel wrote: »

pklemming wrote: »

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

End game doesn't start as soon as you reach 160 CP or whatever. It literally takes months and sometimes years of experience. Raiding guilds are notoriously hard to get into. The reason behind is that most of them rely on crowd experience and each time they have to teach someone new, the experience lessens.

What you should do is:
1. Join a casual guild with discord. One that organises normal trials and dungeons a lot.
2. Find out what you can about your class and practise your dps.
3. Avoid builds from xynode and other off-meta crap. This won't ever get you into any serious raiding guild.
4. Once your dps is decent, find a progression guild or set up a progression group within your current guild. Gaining experience with people you like is very rewarding. Much more rewarding than joining an already established group.
5. When you do trials, try to do it with the best optimal setup, vitality, style and score. This will give you a sense of accomplishment, especially if you improve on your scores.
6. Learn from others! Watch runs on youtube. Join nefas' discrod. Be active in all these ESO Builds FB groups and stuff like that.

Why end-gamers might look "elitist" is because when you are on a certain level you sort of expect people you run with to be good, otherwise they're just wasting their time. Each end-gamer had to go through the above steps, unless they were somehow added to a group that essentially carried them. Experience is everything.

With enough time you'll have enough DPS, knowledge and experience. Just make sure you're part of a community that does trials. I can't stress enough how beneficial it is to "be known". End game community is small, so word gets around quickly.
When I want to add someone who I haven't heard about to my run, I always ask about if they're a decent player. There's always someone who had contact with that person.

Don't give up. Good luck

I honestly, can not say enough good things about Xynode.

Oh snap...you mentioned the X-man...

Elite feathers ruffled in 3...2...

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

MachoKen wrote: »

So let's talk about elitism.

So i'm basically a new player that reached endgame a week ago, just started to do some normal mode trials, some vet dungeons, started gearing up my characters and all that endgame jazz that any other MMO has, and what i've realized when reaching the endgame content is that the community in general (not all) are pretty toxic towards new players and not generous enough to team up with us and we end up getting delayed regarding endgame progression. I mean, i can understand that we all want to rush things, have a consistent and reliable group to finish of
+3 nCR for example or any vet dungeon fast without any one dying once, but the reality is that everyone has to start from somewhere and make mistakes along the way...thats called learning. Being inside a dungeon or a trial with a 810 CP guy that probably has 6000h ingame, a *** ton of experience and literally being disrespected by those veteran players makes me give up the game and play something else cause at the end of the day if you end up matchmaking with a vet ESO player and that same player *** on you in chat and then rage quits the party leaving you and your group with one less member and unable to finish of the dungeon, which is pretty common btw, you're better off logging out, unistalling the game and invest your time in money on something better. These kind of elitist players totally forget that in the beggining they were trash at the game and maybe worst than some of us, that they too were learning like everyone else. This kind of behaviour needs to have consequences and ZoS doesn't do anything regarding this issue.

Another thing that i'd like to discuss are Trials and the time you spend looking for a group. By now i've did a handful of normal Trials like nCR or nAS to get some gear and i can't understand why the hell there isn't matchmaking to do them like there is in veteran Dungeons?? It doesnt make sense to me that i have to wait sometimes hours on an instance spamming in chat to get a group for a Trial, most of us work and don't have time for this nonsense. And what makes me confused is that most of these normal Trials are way easier and don't impose a real challenge like a veteran DLC dungeons does and there is matchmaking for that. FF14 as matchmaking for normal Trials and it works pretty nicelly btw. This game as like what? 6years? These issues persist and they were never addressed, they prefer to release more content than getting a solution for these problems, i feel most times that ZoS doesnt care one bit about it's community and i'm honestly thinking about leaving the game for good, it just doesn't feel worth it.

I would like to hear the community opinion regarding these points. Thank you.

From the sounds of it you're under cp160 and you're being carried through content which most pugs dont enjoy which on their end is understandable. Just join a guild or make some friends and you'll be fine and don't go into vet dungeons before cp160.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

MachoKen wrote: »

So let's talk about elitism.

So i'm basically a new player that reached endgame a week ago, just started to do some normal mode trials, some vet dungeons, started gearing up my characters and all that endgame jazz that any other MMO has, and what i've realized when reaching the endgame content is that the community in general (not all) are pretty toxic towards new players and not generous enough to team up with us and we end up getting delayed regarding endgame progression. I mean, i can understand that we all want to rush things, have a consistent and reliable group to finish of
+3 nCR for example or any vet dungeon fast without any one dying once, but the reality is that everyone has to start from somewhere and make mistakes along the way...thats called learning. Being inside a dungeon or a trial with a 810 CP guy that probably has 6000h ingame, a *** ton of experience and literally being disrespected by those veteran players makes me give up the game and play something else cause at the end of the day if you end up matchmaking with a vet ESO player and that same player *** on you in chat and then rage quits the party leaving you and your group with one less member and unable to finish of the dungeon, which is pretty common btw, you're better off logging out, unistalling the game and invest your time in money on something better. These kind of elitist players totally forget that in the beggining they were trash at the game and maybe worst than some of us, that they too were learning like everyone else. This kind of behaviour needs to have consequences and ZoS doesn't do anything regarding this issue.

Another thing that i'd like to discuss are Trials and the time you spend looking for a group. By now i've did a handful of normal Trials like nCR or nAS to get some gear and i can't understand why the hell there isn't matchmaking to do them like there is in veteran Dungeons?? It doesnt make sense to me that i have to wait sometimes hours on an instance spamming in chat to get a group for a Trial, most of us work and don't have time for this nonsense. And what makes me confused is that most of these normal Trials are way easier and don't impose a real challenge like a veteran DLC dungeons does and there is matchmaking for that. FF14 as matchmaking for normal Trials and it works pretty nicelly btw. This game as like what? 6years? These issues persist and they were never addressed, they prefer to release more content than getting a solution for these problems, i feel most times that ZoS doesnt care one bit about it's community and i'm honestly thinking about leaving the game for good, it just doesn't feel worth it.

I would like to hear the community opinion regarding these points. Thank you.

From the sounds of it you're under cp160 and you're being carried through content which most pugs dont enjoy which on their end is understandable. Just join a guild or make some friends and you'll be fine and don't go into vet dungeons before cp160.

zShepplin wrote: »

MachoKen wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

I'll be blunt: join a guild. There are many great guilds out there, and you can join 5. You'll never have to deal with randoms.

I'm part of 4 guilds, they have schedules that i cant attend and most times when i spam in chat that i need a group out of 300 people just 1 gives an answer. Guilds are overrated in this game, totally overrated.

Join different guilds, not hard. Next.

kongkim wrote: »

The Elitism in ESO is REALLY REALLY bad.
And most of it come from the unrealistic DPS requirements some higher levels set as a "Standard"

In many others game you can do the game contest if you have the gear for it.
In ESO some people have an ide and others are not welcome if they don't do a specific DPS number and therefor slow the group with something that look like 5-10 min. and say they don't have the time and its waste of their time.

Its the thing that ruins the game the most out of all things.

Personal i would rather have x2 the lag and ping then now if they got rid og the DPS maniac there is.

zvavi wrote: »

Most dds and tanks in vDLC can survive just as well without a healer, so if the only thing healers do is "heal" their existence is questionable, and i will keep asking for more resource support after every boss fight that i had to heavy attack in.