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Buffs nb needs
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TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Seems like folks are fishing for an advantage as usual on these forums. The dishonest playerbase is a massive chunk of why the game is in the state it is in.
I don’t think so, there are very few magblades left. Most are like me where they started as a magblade and are playing other classes, but still feel invested in the class.
From playing other classes the class’ weakness’ are more obvious, plus it becomes really easy to call BS on some of the silly objections to a magblade buff, and easy to debunk some of the forum nonsense you read.
Sure some of the suggestions are over the top, but it’s pretty obvious it needs something.
I think adding minor berserk back to merciless, making the hot linger after people leave refreshing path, reworking shrewd offering into a self heal or making rapid regen self only, removing the cast time from soul Siphon, and shaving 10% off the cost of all magblade abilities is probably good enough.
I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that people here are honest and have the data.
Post it..
For instance someone posted data on the disparity between Jabs and Rapid Strikes and how much greater Jabs performs.
That is the type of posting these forums needs.
Then we can say buff Rapid Strikes.. if Jabs does superior damage, let Rapid Strikes get an increase in it's speed.
Simple yet effective means before crying apocalypse like a lot of these people do.
You can’t really make comparisons like that, it doesn’t work. If it did you could balance classes with a spreadsheet and every class would be released balanced from alpha.
Looking at tooltips is also silly. For the example you used of rapid strikes vs jabs, so what? Should rapid strikes hit just as hard as jabs?
If weapon skill lines work just as well as class skill lines then why would someone play a templar?
Individual comparison of skills doesn’t work too because if everything is just as effective why wouldn’t everyone be a sorc or NB? What’s important is how abilities are put together. Templar is a good example in this case. For damage they can do everything damagewise in just 4 slots: light, topppling, sweeps, Ult. This allows them to use their other slots for passives, tanking or healing which is why they’re powerful.
Magblade needs merciless, their self healing is split amongst multiple abilities, need cloak, a stun, spammables are weak. The front bar can’t even fit passive abilities well, even if their spammables were as powerful as other classes. Try fitting two heals as a magblade and you’ll see what I mean.
It’s things like that which matter, not individual skill comparisons.
I don't disagree with mechanical analysis. But most people are looking for an advantage and aren't honest.
Math matters though, Jabs and Rapids are melee channel abilities. So it's fair to look at them at an individual level.
I’ll admit it, I wreck people as a magplar and I’m not that great. What I do is simple: the sustain is good so stack weapon damage and run NMA and BRB, breaking New Moon with potatoes on the back bar.
After trying magplar I’ve been leveling a MagWarden dps and it’s decent but I’m nowhere near as good with it. A strong spammable makes a world of difference.
Where people I’ve found are most dishonest is counters. Like on my magplar I always have trouble with one guy who runs engine guardian and major evasion, my sweeps randomly hits the guardian hurting burst. But... can everyone build like that? No.
Another example is healing, everyone wants everyone else’s healing nerfed. Being up vigor and people will say be against a healing nerf.
I run hybrids and shy away from the meta and avoid the dishonest who scream for nerfs.
Its the blatant dishonesty on the forums where people are deliberately getting classes and skills nerfed without justification other than a bruised ego.
I don't want Rapid Strikes and Jabs to have the same functions, I also don't melee channels to be hand and fist better than the other.3 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Seems like folks are fishing for an advantage as usual on these forums. The dishonest playerbase is a massive chunk of why the game is in the state it is in.
I don’t think so, there are very few magblades left. Most are like me where they started as a magblade and are playing other classes, but still feel invested in the class.
From playing other classes the class’ weakness’ are more obvious, plus it becomes really easy to call BS on some of the silly objections to a magblade buff, and easy to debunk some of the forum nonsense you read.
Sure some of the suggestions are over the top, but it’s pretty obvious it needs something.
I think adding minor berserk back to merciless, making the hot linger after people leave refreshing path, reworking shrewd offering into a self heal or making rapid regen self only, removing the cast time from soul Siphon, and shaving 10% off the cost of all magblade abilities is probably good enough.
I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that people here are honest and have the data.
Post it..
For instance someone posted data on the disparity between Jabs and Rapid Strikes and how much greater Jabs performs.
That is the type of posting these forums needs.
Then we can say buff Rapid Strikes.. if Jabs does superior damage, let Rapid Strikes get an increase in it's speed.
Simple yet effective means before crying apocalypse like a lot of these people do.
You can’t really make comparisons like that, it doesn’t work. If it did you could balance classes with a spreadsheet and every class would be released balanced from alpha.
Looking at tooltips is also silly. For the example you used of rapid strikes vs jabs, so what? Should rapid strikes hit just as hard as jabs?
If weapon skill lines work just as well as class skill lines then why would someone play a templar?
Individual comparison of skills doesn’t work too because if everything is just as effective why wouldn’t everyone be a sorc or NB? What’s important is how abilities are put together. Templar is a good example in this case. For damage they can do everything damagewise in just 4 slots: light, topppling, sweeps, Ult. This allows them to use their other slots for passives, tanking or healing which is why they’re powerful.
Magblade needs merciless, their self healing is split amongst multiple abilities, need cloak, a stun, spammables are weak. The front bar can’t even fit passive abilities well, even if their spammables were as powerful as other classes. Try fitting two heals as a magblade and you’ll see what I mean.
It’s things like that which matter, not individual skill comparisons.
I don't disagree with mechanical analysis. But most people are looking for an advantage and aren't honest.
Math matters though, Jabs and Rapids are melee channel abilities. So it's fair to look at them at an individual level.
I’ll admit it, I wreck people as a magplar and I’m not that great. What I do is simple: the sustain is good so stack weapon damage and run NMA and BRB, breaking New Moon with potatoes on the back bar.
After trying magplar I’ve been leveling a MagWarden dps and it’s decent but I’m nowhere near as good with it. A strong spammable makes a world of difference.
Where people I’ve found are most dishonest is counters. Like on my magplar I always have trouble with one guy who runs engine guardian and major evasion, my sweeps randomly hits the guardian hurting burst. But... can everyone build like that? No.
Another example is healing, everyone wants everyone else’s healing nerfed. Being up vigor and people will say be against a healing nerf.
Its the blatant dishonesty on the forums where people are deliberately getting classes and skills nerfed without justification other than a bruised ego.
that is Exactly what happens on this forum on a constant basis.
well said.
i Quoted you for Truth.
2 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Seems like folks are fishing for an advantage as usual on these forums. The dishonest playerbase is a massive chunk of why the game is in the state it is in.
I don’t think so, there are very few magblades left. Most are like me where they started as a magblade and are playing other classes, but still feel invested in the class.
From playing other classes the class’ weakness’ are more obvious, plus it becomes really easy to call BS on some of the silly objections to a magblade buff, and easy to debunk some of the forum nonsense you read.
Sure some of the suggestions are over the top, but it’s pretty obvious it needs something.
I think adding minor berserk back to merciless, making the hot linger after people leave refreshing path, reworking shrewd offering into a self heal or making rapid regen self only, removing the cast time from soul Siphon, and shaving 10% off the cost of all magblade abilities is probably good enough.
I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that people here are honest and have the data.
Post it..
For instance someone posted data on the disparity between Jabs and Rapid Strikes and how much greater Jabs performs.
That is the type of posting these forums needs.
Then we can say buff Rapid Strikes.. if Jabs does superior damage, let Rapid Strikes get an increase in it's speed.
Simple yet effective means before crying apocalypse like a lot of these people do.
You can’t really make comparisons like that, it doesn’t work. If it did you could balance classes with a spreadsheet and every class would be released balanced from alpha.
Looking at tooltips is also silly. For the example you used of rapid strikes vs jabs, so what? Should rapid strikes hit just as hard as jabs?
If weapon skill lines work just as well as class skill lines then why would someone play a templar?
Individual comparison of skills doesn’t work too because if everything is just as effective why wouldn’t everyone be a sorc or NB? What’s important is how abilities are put together. Templar is a good example in this case. For damage they can do everything damagewise in just 4 slots: light, topppling, sweeps, Ult. This allows them to use their other slots for passives, tanking or healing which is why they’re powerful.
Magblade needs merciless, their self healing is split amongst multiple abilities, need cloak, a stun, spammables are weak. The front bar can’t even fit passive abilities well, even if their spammables were as powerful as other classes. Try fitting two heals as a magblade and you’ll see what I mean.
It’s things like that which matter, not individual skill comparisons.
I don't disagree with mechanical analysis. But most people are looking for an advantage and aren't honest.
Math matters though, Jabs and Rapids are melee channel abilities. So it's fair to look at them at an individual level.
I’ll admit it, I wreck people as a magplar and I’m not that great. What I do is simple: the sustain is good so stack weapon damage and run NMA and BRB, breaking New Moon with potatoes on the back bar.
After trying magplar I’ve been leveling a MagWarden dps and it’s decent but I’m nowhere near as good with it. A strong spammable makes a world of difference.
Where people I’ve found are most dishonest is counters. Like on my magplar I always have trouble with one guy who runs engine guardian and major evasion, my sweeps randomly hits the guardian hurting burst. But... can everyone build like that? No.
Another example is healing, everyone wants everyone else’s healing nerfed. Being up vigor and people will say be against a healing nerf.
Its the blatant dishonesty on the forums where people are deliberately getting classes and skills nerfed without justification other than a bruised ego.
that is Exactly what happens on this forum on a constant basis.
well said.
i Quoted you for Truth.
Agreed. I mean... when I use sweeps as a magplar unless a NB has shade up it’s a dead NB. Just dodge roll? That’s a load of crap. I’ll follow up with a toppling and be on the person immediately. In no-CP with an almost 5k stam cost to dodge roll Ive never seen a NB survive it.
To me that means the magplar who gives this justification was either really bad or just being dishonest. I run 2x swift, there’s no chance of kiting away from me.
I don’t think sweeps needs to be nerfed too. I’m just saying when a class can hard counter another while doing more damage and healing then the other the ‘but cloak’ argument is garbage.Edited by Iskiab on December 31, 2019 11:19PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten3 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Seems like folks are fishing for an advantage as usual on these forums. The dishonest playerbase is a massive chunk of why the game is in the state it is in.
I don’t think so, there are very few magblades left. Most are like me where they started as a magblade and are playing other classes, but still feel invested in the class.
From playing other classes the class’ weakness’ are more obvious, plus it becomes really easy to call BS on some of the silly objections to a magblade buff, and easy to debunk some of the forum nonsense you read.
Sure some of the suggestions are over the top, but it’s pretty obvious it needs something.
I think adding minor berserk back to merciless, making the hot linger after people leave refreshing path, reworking shrewd offering into a self heal or making rapid regen self only, removing the cast time from soul Siphon, and shaving 10% off the cost of all magblade abilities is probably good enough.
I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that people here are honest and have the data.
Post it..
For instance someone posted data on the disparity between Jabs and Rapid Strikes and how much greater Jabs performs.
That is the type of posting these forums needs.
Then we can say buff Rapid Strikes.. if Jabs does superior damage, let Rapid Strikes get an increase in it's speed.
Simple yet effective means before crying apocalypse like a lot of these people do.
You can’t really make comparisons like that, it doesn’t work. If it did you could balance classes with a spreadsheet and every class would be released balanced from alpha.
Looking at tooltips is also silly. For the example you used of rapid strikes vs jabs, so what? Should rapid strikes hit just as hard as jabs?
If weapon skill lines work just as well as class skill lines then why would someone play a templar?
Individual comparison of skills doesn’t work too because if everything is just as effective why wouldn’t everyone be a sorc or NB? What’s important is how abilities are put together. Templar is a good example in this case. For damage they can do everything damagewise in just 4 slots: light, topppling, sweeps, Ult. This allows them to use their other slots for passives, tanking or healing which is why they’re powerful.
Magblade needs merciless, their self healing is split amongst multiple abilities, need cloak, a stun, spammables are weak. The front bar can’t even fit passive abilities well, even if their spammables were as powerful as other classes. Try fitting two heals as a magblade and you’ll see what I mean.
It’s things like that which matter, not individual skill comparisons.
I don't disagree with mechanical analysis. But most people are looking for an advantage and aren't honest.
Math matters though, Jabs and Rapids are melee channel abilities. So it's fair to look at them at an individual level.
I’ll admit it, I wreck people as a magplar and I’m not that great. What I do is simple: the sustain is good so stack weapon damage and run NMA and BRB, breaking New Moon with potatoes on the back bar.
After trying magplar I’ve been leveling a MagWarden dps and it’s decent but I’m nowhere near as good with it. A strong spammable makes a world of difference.
Where people I’ve found are most dishonest is counters. Like on my magplar I always have trouble with one guy who runs engine guardian and major evasion, my sweeps randomly hits the guardian hurting burst. But... can everyone build like that? No.
Another example is healing, everyone wants everyone else’s healing nerfed. Being up vigor and people will say be against a healing nerf.
Its the blatant dishonesty on the forums where people are deliberately getting classes and skills nerfed without justification other than a bruised ego.
that is Exactly what happens on this forum on a constant basis.
well said.
i Quoted you for Truth.
Agreed. I mean... when I use sweeps as a magplar unless a NB has shade up it’s a dead NB. Just dodge roll? That’s a load of crap. I’ll follow up with a toppling and be on the person immediately. In no-CP with an almost 5k stam cost to dodge roll Ive never seen a NB survive it.
To me that means the magplar who gives this justification was either really bad or just being dishonest. I run 2x swift, there’s no chance of kiting away from me.
I don’t think sweeps needs to be nerfed too. I’m just saying when a class can hard counter another while doing more damage and healing then the other the ‘but cloak’ argument is garbage.
This is exactly what's wrong with nightblade as a class. It is hard countered by multiple classes/builds (and I do mean HARD countered), yet nightblade itself doesn't counter anything as it currently exists. There should be a trade-off. Sure, invisibility can be OP as hell in some situations but it's not enough to justify being completely shut down, a weakness which no other class has.2 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Seems like folks are fishing for an advantage as usual on these forums. The dishonest playerbase is a massive chunk of why the game is in the state it is in.
I don’t think so, there are very few magblades left. Most are like me where they started as a magblade and are playing other classes, but still feel invested in the class.
From playing other classes the class’ weakness’ are more obvious, plus it becomes really easy to call BS on some of the silly objections to a magblade buff, and easy to debunk some of the forum nonsense you read.
Sure some of the suggestions are over the top, but it’s pretty obvious it needs something.
I think adding minor berserk back to merciless, making the hot linger after people leave refreshing path, reworking shrewd offering into a self heal or making rapid regen self only, removing the cast time from soul Siphon, and shaving 10% off the cost of all magblade abilities is probably good enough.
I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that people here are honest and have the data.
Post it..
For instance someone posted data on the disparity between Jabs and Rapid Strikes and how much greater Jabs performs.
That is the type of posting these forums needs.
Then we can say buff Rapid Strikes.. if Jabs does superior damage, let Rapid Strikes get an increase in it's speed.
Simple yet effective means before crying apocalypse like a lot of these people do.
You can’t really make comparisons like that, it doesn’t work. If it did you could balance classes with a spreadsheet and every class would be released balanced from alpha.
Looking at tooltips is also silly. For the example you used of rapid strikes vs jabs, so what? Should rapid strikes hit just as hard as jabs?
If weapon skill lines work just as well as class skill lines then why would someone play a templar?
Individual comparison of skills doesn’t work too because if everything is just as effective why wouldn’t everyone be a sorc or NB? What’s important is how abilities are put together. Templar is a good example in this case. For damage they can do everything damagewise in just 4 slots: light, topppling, sweeps, Ult. This allows them to use their other slots for passives, tanking or healing which is why they’re powerful.
Magblade needs merciless, their self healing is split amongst multiple abilities, need cloak, a stun, spammables are weak. The front bar can’t even fit passive abilities well, even if their spammables were as powerful as other classes. Try fitting two heals as a magblade and you’ll see what I mean.
It’s things like that which matter, not individual skill comparisons.
I don't disagree with mechanical analysis. But most people are looking for an advantage and aren't honest.
Math matters though, Jabs and Rapids are melee channel abilities. So it's fair to look at them at an individual level.
I’ll admit it, I wreck people as a magplar and I’m not that great. What I do is simple: the sustain is good so stack weapon damage and run NMA and BRB, breaking New Moon with potatoes on the back bar.
After trying magplar I’ve been leveling a MagWarden dps and it’s decent but I’m nowhere near as good with it. A strong spammable makes a world of difference.
Where people I’ve found are most dishonest is counters. Like on my magplar I always have trouble with one guy who runs engine guardian and major evasion, my sweeps randomly hits the guardian hurting burst. But... can everyone build like that? No.
Another example is healing, everyone wants everyone else’s healing nerfed. Being up vigor and people will say be against a healing nerf.
Its the blatant dishonesty on the forums where people are deliberately getting classes and skills nerfed without justification other than a bruised ego.
that is Exactly what happens on this forum on a constant basis.
well said.
i Quoted you for Truth.
Agreed. I mean... when I use sweeps as a magplar unless a NB has shade up it’s a dead NB. Just dodge roll? That’s a load of crap. I’ll follow up with a toppling and be on the person immediately. In no-CP with an almost 5k stam cost to dodge roll Ive never seen a NB survive it.
To me that means the magplar who gives this justification was either really bad or just being dishonest. I run 2x swift, there’s no chance of kiting away from me.
I don’t think sweeps needs to be nerfed too. I’m just saying when a class can hard counter another while doing more damage and healing then the other the ‘but cloak’ argument is garbage.
This is exactly what's wrong with nightblade as a class. It is hard countered by multiple classes/builds (and I do mean HARD countered), yet nightblade itself doesn't counter anything as it currently exists. There should be a trade-off. Sure, invisibility can be OP as hell in some situations but it's not enough to justify being completely shut down, a weakness which no other class has.
Well, the classes that make the most sense for NBs to hard counter are magwardens and magsorcs. Both those classes have a huge incentive to build glassy and rely on range and shields/shimmering for survivability.
I think that’s likely how the game was when I started, but... no one likes being hard countered. The nerf threads were deafening. If your whole strategy is to stay at range and build glassy you’re not going to like someone coming out of stealth and ruining your strategy.
Plus, they messed up when they gave them both projectile absorptions and can easily negate magblades.Edited by Iskiab on January 1, 2020 12:46AMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten1 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Seems like folks are fishing for an advantage as usual on these forums. The dishonest playerbase is a massive chunk of why the game is in the state it is in.
I don’t think so, there are very few magblades left. Most are like me where they started as a magblade and are playing other classes, but still feel invested in the class.
From playing other classes the class’ weakness’ are more obvious, plus it becomes really easy to call BS on some of the silly objections to a magblade buff, and easy to debunk some of the forum nonsense you read.
Sure some of the suggestions are over the top, but it’s pretty obvious it needs something.
I think adding minor berserk back to merciless, making the hot linger after people leave refreshing path, reworking shrewd offering into a self heal or making rapid regen self only, removing the cast time from soul Siphon, and shaving 10% off the cost of all magblade abilities is probably good enough.
I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that people here are honest and have the data.
Post it..
For instance someone posted data on the disparity between Jabs and Rapid Strikes and how much greater Jabs performs.
That is the type of posting these forums needs.
Then we can say buff Rapid Strikes.. if Jabs does superior damage, let Rapid Strikes get an increase in it's speed.
Simple yet effective means before crying apocalypse like a lot of these people do.
You can’t really make comparisons like that, it doesn’t work. If it did you could balance classes with a spreadsheet and every class would be released balanced from alpha.
Looking at tooltips is also silly. For the example you used of rapid strikes vs jabs, so what? Should rapid strikes hit just as hard as jabs?
If weapon skill lines work just as well as class skill lines then why would someone play a templar?
Individual comparison of skills doesn’t work too because if everything is just as effective why wouldn’t everyone be a sorc or NB? What’s important is how abilities are put together. Templar is a good example in this case. For damage they can do everything damagewise in just 4 slots: light, topppling, sweeps, Ult. This allows them to use their other slots for passives, tanking or healing which is why they’re powerful.
Magblade needs merciless, their self healing is split amongst multiple abilities, need cloak, a stun, spammables are weak. The front bar can’t even fit passive abilities well, even if their spammables were as powerful as other classes. Try fitting two heals as a magblade and you’ll see what I mean.
It’s things like that which matter, not individual skill comparisons.
I don't disagree with mechanical analysis. But most people are looking for an advantage and aren't honest.
Math matters though, Jabs and Rapids are melee channel abilities. So it's fair to look at them at an individual level.
I’ll admit it, I wreck people as a magplar and I’m not that great. What I do is simple: the sustain is good so stack weapon damage and run NMA and BRB, breaking New Moon with potatoes on the back bar.
After trying magplar I’ve been leveling a MagWarden dps and it’s decent but I’m nowhere near as good with it. A strong spammable makes a world of difference.
Where people I’ve found are most dishonest is counters. Like on my magplar I always have trouble with one guy who runs engine guardian and major evasion, my sweeps randomly hits the guardian hurting burst. But... can everyone build like that? No.
Another example is healing, everyone wants everyone else’s healing nerfed. Being up vigor and people will say be against a healing nerf.
Its the blatant dishonesty on the forums where people are deliberately getting classes and skills nerfed without justification other than a bruised ego.
that is Exactly what happens on this forum on a constant basis.
well said.
i Quoted you for Truth.
Agreed. I mean... when I use sweeps as a magplar unless a NB has shade up it’s a dead NB. Just dodge roll? That’s a load of crap. I’ll follow up with a toppling and be on the person immediately. In no-CP with an almost 5k stam cost to dodge roll Ive never seen a NB survive it.
To me that means the magplar who gives this justification was either really bad or just being dishonest. I run 2x swift, there’s no chance of kiting away from me.
I don’t think sweeps needs to be nerfed too. I’m just saying when a class can hard counter another while doing more damage and healing then the other the ‘but cloak’ argument is garbage.
This is exactly what's wrong with nightblade as a class. It is hard countered by multiple classes/builds (and I do mean HARD countered), yet nightblade itself doesn't counter anything as it currently exists. There should be a trade-off. Sure, invisibility can be OP as hell in some situations but it's not enough to justify being completely shut down, a weakness which no other class has.
Well, the classes that make the most sense for NBs to hard counter are magwardens and magsorcs. Both those classes have a huge incentive to build glassy and rely on range and shields/shimmering for survivability.
I think that’s likely how the game was when I started, but... no one likes being hard countered. The nerf threads were deafening. If your whole strategy is to stay at range and build glassy you’re not going to like someone coming out of stealth and ruining your strategy.
Plus, they messed up when they gave them both projectile absorptions and can easily negate magblades.
So because of a bunch of nerf threads, ZOS decided to completely disenfranchise an entire subset of their customer base? That's a pretty garbage way to run a business.Edited by Langeston on January 1, 2020 1:33AM1 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Seems like folks are fishing for an advantage as usual on these forums. The dishonest playerbase is a massive chunk of why the game is in the state it is in.
I don’t think so, there are very few magblades left. Most are like me where they started as a magblade and are playing other classes, but still feel invested in the class.
From playing other classes the class’ weakness’ are more obvious, plus it becomes really easy to call BS on some of the silly objections to a magblade buff, and easy to debunk some of the forum nonsense you read.
Sure some of the suggestions are over the top, but it’s pretty obvious it needs something.
I think adding minor berserk back to merciless, making the hot linger after people leave refreshing path, reworking shrewd offering into a self heal or making rapid regen self only, removing the cast time from soul Siphon, and shaving 10% off the cost of all magblade abilities is probably good enough.
I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that people here are honest and have the data.
Post it..
For instance someone posted data on the disparity between Jabs and Rapid Strikes and how much greater Jabs performs.
That is the type of posting these forums needs.
Then we can say buff Rapid Strikes.. if Jabs does superior damage, let Rapid Strikes get an increase in it's speed.
Simple yet effective means before crying apocalypse like a lot of these people do.
You can’t really make comparisons like that, it doesn’t work. If it did you could balance classes with a spreadsheet and every class would be released balanced from alpha.
Looking at tooltips is also silly. For the example you used of rapid strikes vs jabs, so what? Should rapid strikes hit just as hard as jabs?
If weapon skill lines work just as well as class skill lines then why would someone play a templar?
Individual comparison of skills doesn’t work too because if everything is just as effective why wouldn’t everyone be a sorc or NB? What’s important is how abilities are put together. Templar is a good example in this case. For damage they can do everything damagewise in just 4 slots: light, topppling, sweeps, Ult. This allows them to use their other slots for passives, tanking or healing which is why they’re powerful.
Magblade needs merciless, their self healing is split amongst multiple abilities, need cloak, a stun, spammables are weak. The front bar can’t even fit passive abilities well, even if their spammables were as powerful as other classes. Try fitting two heals as a magblade and you’ll see what I mean.
It’s things like that which matter, not individual skill comparisons.
I don't disagree with mechanical analysis. But most people are looking for an advantage and aren't honest.
Math matters though, Jabs and Rapids are melee channel abilities. So it's fair to look at them at an individual level.
I’ll admit it, I wreck people as a magplar and I’m not that great. What I do is simple: the sustain is good so stack weapon damage and run NMA and BRB, breaking New Moon with potatoes on the back bar.
After trying magplar I’ve been leveling a MagWarden dps and it’s decent but I’m nowhere near as good with it. A strong spammable makes a world of difference.
Where people I’ve found are most dishonest is counters. Like on my magplar I always have trouble with one guy who runs engine guardian and major evasion, my sweeps randomly hits the guardian hurting burst. But... can everyone build like that? No.
Another example is healing, everyone wants everyone else’s healing nerfed. Being up vigor and people will say be against a healing nerf.
Its the blatant dishonesty on the forums where people are deliberately getting classes and skills nerfed without justification other than a bruised ego.
that is Exactly what happens on this forum on a constant basis.
well said.
i Quoted you for Truth.
Agreed. I mean... when I use sweeps as a magplar unless a NB has shade up it’s a dead NB. Just dodge roll? That’s a load of crap. I’ll follow up with a toppling and be on the person immediately. In no-CP with an almost 5k stam cost to dodge roll Ive never seen a NB survive it.
To me that means the magplar who gives this justification was either really bad or just being dishonest. I run 2x swift, there’s no chance of kiting away from me.
I don’t think sweeps needs to be nerfed too. I’m just saying when a class can hard counter another while doing more damage and healing then the other the ‘but cloak’ argument is garbage.
This is exactly what's wrong with nightblade as a class. It is hard countered by multiple classes/builds (and I do mean HARD countered), yet nightblade itself doesn't counter anything as it currently exists. There should be a trade-off. Sure, invisibility can be OP as hell in some situations but it's not enough to justify being completely shut down, a weakness which no other class has.
Well, the classes that make the most sense for NBs to hard counter are magwardens and magsorcs. Both those classes have a huge incentive to build glassy and rely on range and shields/shimmering for survivability.
I think that’s likely how the game was when I started, but... no one likes being hard countered. The nerf threads were deafening. If your whole strategy is to stay at range and build glassy you’re not going to like someone coming out of stealth and ruining your strategy.
Plus, they messed up when they gave them both projectile absorptions and can easily negate magblades.
So because of a bunch of nerf threads, ZOS decided to completely disenfranchise an entire subset of their customer base? That's a pretty garbage way to run a business.
I’d say it’s more like a pendulum swinging. Magblade healers were pretty good for a while, with lots of moving parts as a dev you can change one thing or have an idea of how things will turn out but things might turn out differently. Look at Invig drain, I’m pretty sure they overlooked the cheap cost of that stun in their plan.
It’ll swing back I’m pretty sure. With the costs and tooltips of abilities relatively standardized it sorta missed the mark because of projectile negation, different access to healing abilities, different passives, etc... they have to fine tune now.
That’s not to say people will like it. A Sorc or warden with no defensive set who gets ganked out of stealth will still hate NBs, but really for balance they need to be easy kills to keep that playstyle honest. Right now solo Cyro there isn’t much of a downside as a sorc because NBs have been neutered, you can spec for some crazy burst.Edited by Iskiab on January 1, 2020 2:08AMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Seems like folks are fishing for an advantage as usual on these forums. The dishonest playerbase is a massive chunk of why the game is in the state it is in.
I don’t think so, there are very few magblades left. Most are like me where they started as a magblade and are playing other classes, but still feel invested in the class.
From playing other classes the class’ weakness’ are more obvious, plus it becomes really easy to call BS on some of the silly objections to a magblade buff, and easy to debunk some of the forum nonsense you read.
Sure some of the suggestions are over the top, but it’s pretty obvious it needs something.
I think adding minor berserk back to merciless, making the hot linger after people leave refreshing path, reworking shrewd offering into a self heal or making rapid regen self only, removing the cast time from soul Siphon, and shaving 10% off the cost of all magblade abilities is probably good enough.
I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that people here are honest and have the data.
Post it..
For instance someone posted data on the disparity between Jabs and Rapid Strikes and how much greater Jabs performs.
That is the type of posting these forums needs.
Then we can say buff Rapid Strikes.. if Jabs does superior damage, let Rapid Strikes get an increase in it's speed.
Simple yet effective means before crying apocalypse like a lot of these people do.
You can’t really make comparisons like that, it doesn’t work. If it did you could balance classes with a spreadsheet and every class would be released balanced from alpha.
Looking at tooltips is also silly. For the example you used of rapid strikes vs jabs, so what? Should rapid strikes hit just as hard as jabs?
If weapon skill lines work just as well as class skill lines then why would someone play a templar?
Individual comparison of skills doesn’t work too because if everything is just as effective why wouldn’t everyone be a sorc or NB? What’s important is how abilities are put together. Templar is a good example in this case. For damage they can do everything damagewise in just 4 slots: light, topppling, sweeps, Ult. This allows them to use their other slots for passives, tanking or healing which is why they’re powerful.
Magblade needs merciless, their self healing is split amongst multiple abilities, need cloak, a stun, spammables are weak. The front bar can’t even fit passive abilities well, even if their spammables were as powerful as other classes. Try fitting two heals as a magblade and you’ll see what I mean.
It’s things like that which matter, not individual skill comparisons.
I don't disagree with mechanical analysis. But most people are looking for an advantage and aren't honest.
Math matters though, Jabs and Rapids are melee channel abilities. So it's fair to look at them at an individual level.
I’ll admit it, I wreck people as a magplar and I’m not that great. What I do is simple: the sustain is good so stack weapon damage and run NMA and BRB, breaking New Moon with potatoes on the back bar.
After trying magplar I’ve been leveling a MagWarden dps and it’s decent but I’m nowhere near as good with it. A strong spammable makes a world of difference.
Where people I’ve found are most dishonest is counters. Like on my magplar I always have trouble with one guy who runs engine guardian and major evasion, my sweeps randomly hits the guardian hurting burst. But... can everyone build like that? No.
Another example is healing, everyone wants everyone else’s healing nerfed. Being up vigor and people will say be against a healing nerf.
Its the blatant dishonesty on the forums where people are deliberately getting classes and skills nerfed without justification other than a bruised ego.
that is Exactly what happens on this forum on a constant basis.
well said.
i Quoted you for Truth.
Agreed. I mean... when I use sweeps as a magplar unless a NB has shade up it’s a dead NB. Just dodge roll? That’s a load of crap. I’ll follow up with a toppling and be on the person immediately. In no-CP with an almost 5k stam cost to dodge roll Ive never seen a NB survive it.
To me that means the magplar who gives this justification was either really bad or just being dishonest. I run 2x swift, there’s no chance of kiting away from me.
I don’t think sweeps needs to be nerfed too. I’m just saying when a class can hard counter another while doing more damage and healing then the other the ‘but cloak’ argument is garbage.
This is exactly what's wrong with nightblade as a class. It is hard countered by multiple classes/builds (and I do mean HARD countered), yet nightblade itself doesn't counter anything as it currently exists. There should be a trade-off. Sure, invisibility can be OP as hell in some situations but it's not enough to justify being completely shut down, a weakness which no other class has.
Well, the classes that make the most sense for NBs to hard counter are magwardens and magsorcs. Both those classes have a huge incentive to build glassy and rely on range and shields/shimmering for survivability.
I think that’s likely how the game was when I started, but... no one likes being hard countered. The nerf threads were deafening. If your whole strategy is to stay at range and build glassy you’re not going to like someone coming out of stealth and ruining your strategy.
Plus, they messed up when they gave them both projectile absorptions and can easily negate magblades.
So because of a bunch of nerf threads, ZOS decided to completely disenfranchise an entire subset of their customer base? That's a pretty garbage way to run a business.
I’d say it’s more like a pendulum swinging. Magblade healers were pretty good for a while, with lots of moving parts as a dev you can change one thing or have an idea of how things will turn out but things might turn out differently. Look at Invig drain, I’m pretty sure they overlooked the cheap cost of that stun in their plan.
It’ll swing back I’m pretty sure. With the costs and tooltips of abilities relatively standardized it sorta missed the mark because of projectile negation, different access to healing abilities, different passives, etc... they have to fine tune now.
That’s not to say people will like it. A Sorc or warden with no defensive set who gets ganked out of stealth will still hate NBs, but really for balance they need to be easy kills to keep that playstyle honest. Right now solo Cyro there isn’t much of a downside as a sorc because NBs have been neutered, you can spec for some crazy burst.
Yeah, but:
1) do the devs understand how imbalanced it is right now, and
2) do they even care about NBs as a class?
Because in the 9 months I've been playing, it it seems like the answer to both those questions is no.
Also, sorcs appear to be among the most vocal in these forums about how their class has been "ruined" — hell, even right now with as dominant as they are they're still complaining about their class. While there are a number of NB posts lamenting the state of their class, they aren't at the same level re: whining, even though they're pretty much universally regarded as the weakest class. And as they say, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭So I’ve been leveling another magblade. I mean I played a magblade a ton and it was my main, so I hope I’d dominate but I’ve noticed something interesting.
Magblade 1-20:
Feels weak because of crappy spammables.
Magblade from 21-49:
Really strong because, well, I know what I’m doing so it’s going as expected
Magblade 50:
Feels weak
So the big question is why does it play out this way. I have a theory.
At really low levels the root abilities in each tree plays out like you’d expect them to, they’re on the weak side. From 21-49 you don’t need merciless and magblade plays fine using impale and lotus fan. The problem is when all your skills are leveled up and you hit 50.
Burst goes way up so the weak self healing is more of an issue, plus bar space crunch is an issue. On your front bar you’re going to want:
Spammable - cloak - execute - merciless - stun
Your bar spots fill up fast and there’s no space for a gap closer, it becomes about getting your passives and you choose between a good spammable with crippling or an execute or a gap closer.
What about changing lotus fan into an execute? Remove the minor vulnerability and have it do extra damage to low health targets. Think that would be OP or be a good solution?Edited by Iskiab on January 3, 2020 5:00PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
Gatdangmayne✭✭✭✭This thread is ridiculous and full of l2p.
If you have a button that avoids all incoming damage, you shouldn't also have great healing or be tanky.
If you want great healing, dont slot stealth cloak.
I can get behind no cast times, and changing concealed weapon+passives to not be useless if you use dark cloak.
Nightblade can be very strong.
It's that most nightblade players are simply not good, and cripple themselves by stubbornly playing around a mechanic that has no business existing in a fast paced pvp combat environment.
Stop playing a nub blade and slot dark cloak
-also before anyone says it, i play magblade, it is probably my "main" if i have one, and i do just fine in Kaal/Laat and or BG's, and i play most classes so its not like i don't have a frame of reference.Edited by Gatdangmayne on January 3, 2020 5:34PM0 -
ThePhantomThorn✭✭✭✭Gatdangmayne wrote: »This thread is ridiculous and full of l2p.
If you have a button that avoids all incoming damage, you shouldn't also have great healing or be tanky.
If you want great healing, dont slot stealth cloak.
I can get behind no cast times, and changing concealed weapon+passives to not be useless if you use dark cloak.
Nightblade can be very strong.
It's that most nightblade players are simply not good, and cripple themselves by stubbornly playing around a mechanic that has no business existing in a fast paced pvp combat environment.
Stop playing a nub blade and slot dark cloak
sure. ill use a skill that costs 4k mag every 6 seconds on my stamblade.
0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Gatdangmayne wrote: »This thread is ridiculous and full of l2p.
If you have a button that avoids all incoming damage, you shouldn't also have great healing or be tanky.
If you want great healing, dont slot stealth cloak.
I can get behind no cast times, and changing concealed weapon+passives to not be useless if you use dark cloak.
Nightblade can be very strong.
It's that most nightblade players are simply not good, and cripple themselves by stubbornly playing around a mechanic that has no business existing in a fast paced pvp combat environment.
Stop playing a nub blade and slot dark cloak
-also before anyone says it, i play magblade, it is probably my "main" if i have one, and i do just fine in Kaal/Laat and or BG's, and i play most classes so its not like i don't have a frame of reference.
I’ve seen you say this before. You’re PC-EU right? Aren’t they typically a little delayed with the meta?
Outside dueling I can say I rip magblades apart on my magtemplar. Easy kills.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
Gatdangmayne✭✭✭✭@ThePhantomThorn
You're a stamblade. Vigor. Rally. Blood craze.
If you lack healing on stamblade even without dark cloak that's a l2p.
Also, i have no issues keeping up magicka buffs that cost the same on any of my stamina classes, such as ice fortress, shimmering shield, green lotus, ritual of retribution, crit surge, bound arms, dark deal...0 -
Gatdangmayne✭✭✭✭@Iskiab
I am ps4/na and i have no doubt the meta is different depending on your platform, but aside from the time between pc getting a patch and console getting it, the game works the same.
The difference is i never really looked up builds to copy, once i had a basic understanding of the game, i looked up sets. I look at tooltips. I play around with cp constantly. I swap out enchants often. My mundus' change. My monster sets are often swapped out.
When you look around in pvp, 95% of people playing mag___ or stam____ play it the same as literally everyone else playing that class.
Problem is, there's still a ton of sets and skills that "aren't viable" because, uh, because
Back when i first tried dark cloak magblade all i did was get plague dr jewelry n staves and make the jewelry infused. I took that into cyro recently just for fun, and with ice staff was still dropping 6k soul harvests with 9k+ bow procs.
Defense>offense
Penetration>Dmg>sustain
Edited by Gatdangmayne on January 3, 2020 5:51PM0 -
nublife01✭✭✭✭ThePhantomThorn wrote: »title.
ill throw out a few.
incap - no cast time (soul harvest too)
- remove silence
- add defile
- add stun (maybe)
grim focus - minor berserk.
- take off heal
veiled strike - major fracture and breach on stam and mag morph respectively
- sneak movement applys 2 both morphs
hysteria - snare on enemies hit
soul siphon - no cast time
cripple - add major expedition
and let the salty comments begin
Screw a stun or defile. Just give me instant cast and a slow on it or ambush so that they cant run from me as easily.
And the heal on grim focus is actually way way way better than minor berserk you pleb. When you go in for a kill you should have a 5 stack of grim focus. It is not a buff ability it is a kill/survive ability (I'm assuming you have backbar'd it lol). When the other player damages you on your go on them or on their go on you, that grim focus heal will win you the fight or allow you to escape alive. It's an amazing change just maybe the range on the heal needs to be taken away.
Major fracture would be insanely busted with the current sets that have just been released. Like I can't tell if you're serious or not.
Hysteria does not need a snare it needs to be removed or entirely reworked. Incap or ambush need a snare. Doesn't matter if both Hysteria and Incap give you a free bj, you currently will not do enough damage to kill anything with hysteria front bar'd and nor should you be able to because if you could then good nbs like myself will still prefer damage abilities over hysteria and just delete everything we come in contact with.
And if you're a good NB you do not need a cc to kill someone as without an Incap cast time you should already be able to dang near instagib any class in the game by casting ambush/lightattack/incap/spectral bow/execute all virtually at the same time (and with an incap cast time any class but stamDK which will probably be nerfed soon anyways). Learn to play the class before screwing it up for the rest of us knowledgeable nbs. Like literally all we need is instant cast on incap with maybe a slow thrown in there. Unless our class gets majorly reworked that is all we need.
At least of the stamblade side of things, the only real additions to our class that are needed are to give us more survivability so that no cloak blade can come back. Hysteria should be completely reworked or changed to suffice this need. Like imagine if instead of a fear Hysteria healed you or granted you an absorb shield on the first two or so cc/slow attacks and prevented their effects from taking place. We could backbar it instead of shuffle. That would be an amazing change to nb.
(edited for clarity)Edited by nublife01 on January 5, 2020 3:15PM1 -
ThePhantomThorn✭✭✭✭ThePhantomThorn wrote: »title.
ill throw out a few.
incap - no cast time (soul harvest too)
- remove silence
- add defile
- add stun (maybe)
grim focus - minor berserk.
- take off heal
veiled strike - major fracture and breach on stam and mag morph respectively
- sneak movement applys 2 both morphs
hysteria - snare on enemies hit
soul siphon - no cast time
cripple - add major expedition
and let the salty comments begin
Screw a stun or defile. Just give me instant cast and a slow on it or ambush.
And the heal on grim focus is actually way way way better than minor berserk you pleb. When you go in for a kill you should have a 5 stack of grim focus. It is not a buff ability it is a kill/survive ability (I'm assuming you have backbar'd it lol). When the other player damages you on your go or they damage you on their go on you, that grim focus heal will win you the fight or allow you to escape alive. It's an amazing change just maybe the range on the heal needs to be taken away.
Major fracture would be insanely busted with the current sets that have just been released. Like I can't tell if you're serious or not.
Hysteria does not need a snare. Incap or ambush need a snare. Doesn't matter if both Hysteria and Incap give you a free ***, you currently will not do enough damage to kill anything with hysteria was front bar'd and no should you be able to because if you could then good nbs like myself will still prefer damage abilities over hysteria and just delete everything we come in contact with.
And if you're a good NB you do not need a cc to kill someone as without an Incap cast time you should be able to dang near instagib any class in the game by casting ambush/lightattack/incap/spectral bow/execute all virtually at the same time and with a cast time (and with an incap cast time any class but stamDK which will probably be nerfed soon anyways). Learn to play the class before screwing it up for the rest of us knowledgeable nbs. Like literally all we need is instant cast on incap with maybe a slow thrown in there. Unless our class gets majorly reworked that is all we need.
That so called insta kill combo is in 3gcds. Instantly counterd by roil dodge.
And you do know this thread is for nb buffs?
And I have mained nb for 2 years straight. I want buffs to make it like it was back in Morrowind.
And if you think it’s fine play magblade. Very low burst, no burst heal.Gatdangmayne wrote: »@ThePhantomThorn
You're a stamblade. Vigor. Rally. Blood craze.
If you lack healing on stamblade even without dark cloak that's a l2p.
Also, i have no issues keeping up magicka buffs that cost the same on any of my stamina classes, such as ice fortress, shimmering shield, green lotus, ritual of retribution, crit surge, bound arms, dark deal...
All of which are non class skills.
Compare to stamplar, which has extended ritual.
Or dk with MAJOR MENDING.
Or warden with it’s stupid tree ult.
My build is fine. I am very good on nb.
But even a noob can see that nb has the worst healing out of all the classes.
And maintaining dark cloak, while having enough mag for shade and fear. Sure.1 -
nublife01✭✭✭✭Maybe adding minor fracture to Hysteria could work but oh would that be busted. But a slow...? Who cares about the slow change. it did nothing for any half decent nb anyways.ThePhantomThorn wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »title.
ill throw out a few.
incap - no cast time (soul harvest too)
- remove silence
- add defile
- add stun (maybe)
grim focus - minor berserk.
- take off heal
veiled strike - major fracture and breach on stam and mag morph respectively
- sneak movement applys 2 both morphs
hysteria - snare on enemies hit
soul siphon - no cast time
cripple - add major expedition
and let the salty comments begin
Screw a stun or defile. Just give me instant cast and a slow on it or ambush.
And the heal on grim focus is actually way way way better than minor berserk you pleb. When you go in for a kill you should have a 5 stack of grim focus. It is not a buff ability it is a kill/survive ability (I'm assuming you have backbar'd it lol). When the other player damages you on your go or they damage you on their go on you, that grim focus heal will win you the fight or allow you to escape alive. It's an amazing change just maybe the range on the heal needs to be taken away.
Major fracture would be insanely busted with the current sets that have just been released. Like I can't tell if you're serious or not.
Hysteria does not need a snare. Incap or ambush need a snare. Doesn't matter if both Hysteria and Incap give you a free ***, you currently will not do enough damage to kill anything with hysteria was front bar'd and no should you be able to because if you could then good nbs like myself will still prefer damage abilities over hysteria and just delete everything we come in contact with.
And if you're a good NB you do not need a cc to kill someone as without an Incap cast time you should be able to dang near instagib any class in the game by casting ambush/lightattack/incap/spectral bow/execute all virtually at the same time and with a cast time (and with an incap cast time any class but stamDK which will probably be nerfed soon anyways). Learn to play the class before screwing it up for the rest of us knowledgeable nbs. Like literally all we need is instant cast on incap with maybe a slow thrown in there. Unless our class gets majorly reworked that is all we need.
That so called insta kill combo is in 3gcds. Instantly counterd by roil dodge.
And you do know this thread is for nb buffs?
And I have mained nb for 2 years straight. I want buffs to make it like it was back in Morrowind.
And if you think it’s fine play magblade. Very low burst, no burst heal.Gatdangmayne wrote: »@ThePhantomThorn
You're a stamblade. Vigor. Rally. Blood craze.
If you lack healing on stamblade even without dark cloak that's a l2p.
Also, i have no issues keeping up magicka buffs that cost the same on any of my stamina classes, such as ice fortress, shimmering shield, green lotus, ritual of retribution, crit surge, bound arms, dark deal...
All of which are non class skills.
Compare to stamplar, which has extended ritual.
Or dk with MAJOR MENDING.
Or warden with it’s stupid tree ult.
My build is fine. I am very good on nb.
But even a noob can see that nb has the worst healing out of all the classes.
And maintaining dark cloak, while having enough mag for shade and fear. Sure.
Have you heard of animation cancel? It's a neat way to hide your spectral bow and if you cant hide it you should be roll dodged. And yea having a 1shot combo that can kill someone should naturally be able to be roll dodged. Any damage combo with CC should not be able to kill you (if you notice no class actually has one that does). That is why we need a slow because if they roll dodge one of these abilities we can waddle over and continue to wack them with 1-2 light attack/surprise attacks and incap buff up until execute range which is grossly difficult to heal through.0 -
nublife01✭✭✭✭Like at absolute most we need a stun on incap and it to be instacast with the removal of the silence. But like we'd be so ridiculously powerful with free spectral bow damage lol. More than anything dark cloak survivability like survivability other than just deadly cloak spam needs to be given to nb. That's where the class is suffering the most. And buffing surv wont make the class op.Edited by nublife01 on January 5, 2020 3:40PM0
-
Gatdangmayne✭✭✭✭Dude have you played any other stam class? Yeah, on my Stamsorc dark deal adds a bit of healing. On stamplar ritual adds a bit as long as i stay in it. On stamden you have trees and green lotus.
They all rely on vigor wtf are you smoking.
If you wanna get that technical, nb also has siphoning strkes which is a better off heal than ritual and basically the same as lotus, except you also get stam back. Oh, and the tether heal is literally the strongest heal in game.
On a stamblade you don't need dark cloak- but if you wanted it, drop fear or shade. On stamden i manage to keep up green lotus and ice fortress, with plenty to spam shimmering shield or flappy wings.
Gtfo
1 -
nublife01✭✭✭✭Gatdangmayne wrote: »Dude have you played any other stam class? Yeah, on my Stamsorc dark deal adds a bit of healing. On stamplar ritual adds a bit as long as i stay in it. On stamden you have trees and green lotus.
They all rely on vigor wtf are you smoking.
If you wanna get that technical, nb also has siphoning strkes which is a better off heal than ritual and basically the same as lotus, except you also get stam back. Oh, and the tether heal is literally the strongest heal in game.
On a stamblade you don't need dark cloak- but if you wanted it, drop fear or shade. On stamden i manage to keep up green lotus and ice fortress, with plenty to spam shimmering shield or flappy wings.
Gtfo
you play on ps4 come to pc lol. this thread is rampant with l2p. but nb needs some buffs most definitely.Edited by nublife01 on January 5, 2020 5:07PM2 -
Gatdangmayne✭✭✭✭Gatdangmayne wrote: »Dude have you played any other stam class? Yeah, on my Stamsorc dark deal adds a bit of healing. On stamplar ritual adds a bit as long as i stay in it. On stamden you have trees and green lotus.
They all rely on vigor wtf are you smoking.
If you wanna get that technical, nb also has siphoning strkes which is a better off heal than ritual and basically the same as lotus, except you also get stam back. Oh, and the tether heal is literally the strongest heal in game.
On a stamblade you don't need dark cloak- but if you wanted it, drop fear or shade. On stamden i manage to keep up green lotus and ice fortress, with plenty to spam shimmering shield or flappy wings.
Gtfo
you play on ps4 come to pc lol. this thread is rampant with l2p. but nb needs some buffs most definitely.
I'm not sure if you're suggesting i need to l2p? Lol.
Now I'm not saying there are zero issues with nb...but acting like its by far the weakest is laughable.
The way balance is right now a competent player is going to be just fine on any class they know decently well, and a bad player is going to be stronger on the weakest class than a bad player on the strongest class was when i first started.1 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Gatdangmayne wrote: »Gatdangmayne wrote: »Dude have you played any other stam class? Yeah, on my Stamsorc dark deal adds a bit of healing. On stamplar ritual adds a bit as long as i stay in it. On stamden you have trees and green lotus.
They all rely on vigor wtf are you smoking.
If you wanna get that technical, nb also has siphoning strkes which is a better off heal than ritual and basically the same as lotus, except you also get stam back. Oh, and the tether heal is literally the strongest heal in game.
On a stamblade you don't need dark cloak- but if you wanted it, drop fear or shade. On stamden i manage to keep up green lotus and ice fortress, with plenty to spam shimmering shield or flappy wings.
Gtfo
you play on ps4 come to pc lol. this thread is rampant with l2p. but nb needs some buffs most definitely.
I'm not sure if you're suggesting i need to l2p? Lol.
Now I'm not saying there are zero issues with nb...but acting like its by far the weakest is laughable.
The way balance is right now a competent player is going to be just fine on any class they know decently well, and a bad player is going to be stronger on the weakest class than a bad player on the strongest class was when i first started.
No, I disagree.
Outside solo play and large groups NBs very weak. Skill does not matter, they’re at a disadvantage compared to other classes. It doesn’t matter what spec or the player, they’d do a lot better playing a different class.
Sure a good NB will destroy a poor player on another class, but who cares? There’s no point in playing a class just to stomp new players because every class can do that. I play to fight good opponents not to pick on weak ones.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten3 -
JinxxND✭✭✭✭Gatdangmayne wrote: »This thread is ridiculous and full of l2p.
If you have a button that avoids all incoming damage, you shouldn't also have great healing or be tanky.
If you want great healing, dont slot stealth cloak.
I can get behind no cast times, and changing concealed weapon+passives to not be useless if you use dark cloak.
Nightblade can be very strong.
It's that most nightblade players are simply not good, and cripple themselves by stubbornly playing around a mechanic that has no business existing in a fast paced pvp combat environment.
Stop playing a nub blade and slot dark cloak
-also before anyone says it, i play magblade, it is probably my "main" if i have one, and i do just fine in Kaal/Laat and or BG's, and i play most classes so its not like i don't have a frame of reference.
Lol while I do agree a lot of nightblades (90%) can't play because they only play with shadowy disguise over dark cloak and not learning normal PvP mechanics like keeping buffs up and heals going instead of just being gankers, saying dark cloak is a great heal and solves everything is kinda ridiculous unless your stacking hp in PvP because of battle spirit. Even with the ritual mundus or having a high crit build so the heals crit it's mediocre at best, def a unique skill and the best and most balanced version it has been in the game for sure though. Leeching strikes heal after battle spirit is "ok" a little better with a bow for faster light attacks.
The class has always had healing issues outside old 7th legion and some troll builds.
The kit for both mag and stam is just really clunky and counter intuitive due to the nerfs over the years making it one of the weaker classes overall in PvP outside cloakblade ganking.
PC NA -
'Jinxx - Nightblade
'Jinxx X Necromancer2 -
Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭Gatdangmayne wrote: »Gatdangmayne wrote: »Dude have you played any other stam class? Yeah, on my Stamsorc dark deal adds a bit of healing. On stamplar ritual adds a bit as long as i stay in it. On stamden you have trees and green lotus.
They all rely on vigor wtf are you smoking.
If you wanna get that technical, nb also has siphoning strkes which is a better off heal than ritual and basically the same as lotus, except you also get stam back. Oh, and the tether heal is literally the strongest heal in game.
On a stamblade you don't need dark cloak- but if you wanted it, drop fear or shade. On stamden i manage to keep up green lotus and ice fortress, with plenty to spam shimmering shield or flappy wings.
Gtfo
you play on ps4 come to pc lol. this thread is rampant with l2p. but nb needs some buffs most definitely.
I'm not sure if you're suggesting i need to l2p? Lol.
Now I'm not saying there are zero issues with nb...but acting like its by far the weakest is laughable.
The way balance is right now a competent player is going to be just fine on any class they know decently well, and a bad player is going to be stronger on the weakest class than a bad player on the strongest class was when i first started.
They want an erase button macro set up. Anything less, like 10% mitigation and the ability to negate all damage and get a couple free gcds to reposition/prep, is irrelevant.1 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Gatdangmayne wrote: »Gatdangmayne wrote: »Dude have you played any other stam class? Yeah, on my Stamsorc dark deal adds a bit of healing. On stamplar ritual adds a bit as long as i stay in it. On stamden you have trees and green lotus.
They all rely on vigor wtf are you smoking.
If you wanna get that technical, nb also has siphoning strkes which is a better off heal than ritual and basically the same as lotus, except you also get stam back. Oh, and the tether heal is literally the strongest heal in game.
On a stamblade you don't need dark cloak- but if you wanted it, drop fear or shade. On stamden i manage to keep up green lotus and ice fortress, with plenty to spam shimmering shield or flappy wings.
Gtfo
you play on ps4 come to pc lol. this thread is rampant with l2p. but nb needs some buffs most definitely.
I'm not sure if you're suggesting i need to l2p? Lol.
Now I'm not saying there are zero issues with nb...but acting like its by far the weakest is laughable.
The way balance is right now a competent player is going to be just fine on any class they know decently well, and a bad player is going to be stronger on the weakest class than a bad player on the strongest class was when i first started.
They want an erase button macro set up. Anything less, like 10% mitigation and the ability to negate all damage and get a couple free gcds to reposition/prep, is irrelevant.
Well for magblade at least it just is weaker. I do better on my MagWarden and MagTemplar. You can look at abilities, tooltips, whatever to try and paint a picture of why it’s not weaker or whatever, I’m just saying having played multiple classes I have maybe twenty times more experience on a magblade then other classes, and perform a lot better on the classes I play less.
I’ve basicly dropped magblade as a main at this point. I still like the idea of a magblade though, so have one kicking around in case it’s brought up to other classes level, but right now it’s weak. It’s a class that I want to do well, even though it’s not my main anymore because the playstyle and theme are fun.Edited by Iskiab on January 6, 2020 2:37AMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
JinxxND✭✭✭✭Magblade unfortunately suffers because numerous nerfs throughout the years from the sap essence heal nerf which made the class tanky without damage mitigation, the healing ward change due to shield stacking magsorcs, Cripple major expedition nerf due to a "skill audit", losing damage with minor berserk due to PvE dps being "too high", losing minor maim on fear due to "skill audit" among many other things.
Really sad too because the current combat team seems so out of touch with the game and the balancing changes/skill audit from not playing the game and understanding the classes.PC NA -
'Jinxx - Nightblade
'Jinxx X Necromancer0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Magblade unfortunately suffers because numerous nerfs throughout the years from the sap essence heal nerf which made the class tanky without damage mitigation, the healing ward change due to shield stacking magsorcs, Cripple major expedition nerf due to a "skill audit", losing damage with minor berserk due to PvE dps being "too high", losing minor maim on fear due to "skill audit" among many other things.
Really sad too because the current combat team seems so out of touch with the game and the balancing changes/skill audit from not playing the game and understanding the classes.
I don’t think the combat team is that out of touch. They’ve nerfed a lot of OP things that weren’t even talked about on the forums, so in one sense they’re getting good info. On another hand they seem to like buffing the strongest classes. It’s an enigma.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
nublife01✭✭✭✭I mean my proposed change to hystGatdangmayne wrote: »Gatdangmayne wrote: »Dude have you played any other stam class? Yeah, on my Stamsorc dark deal adds a bit of healing. On stamplar ritual adds a bit as long as i stay in it. On stamden you have trees and green lotus.
They all rely on vigor wtf are you smoking.
If you wanna get that technical, nb also has siphoning strkes which is a better off heal than ritual and basically the same as lotus, except you also get stam back. Oh, and the tether heal is literally the strongest heal in game.
On a stamblade you don't need dark cloak- but if you wanted it, drop fear or shade. On stamden i manage to keep up green lotus and ice fortress, with plenty to spam shimmering shield or flappy wings.
Gtfo
you play on ps4 come to pc lol. this thread is rampant with l2p. but nb needs some buffs most definitely.
I'm not sure if you're suggesting i need to l2p? Lol.
Now I'm not saying there are zero issues with nb...but acting like its by far the weakest is laughable.
The way balance is right now a competent player is going to be just fine on any class they know decently well, and a bad player is going to be stronger on the weakest class than a bad player on the strongest class was when i first started.
No not saying youre bad.
I just think the skill cap on the class is way too high. I have played stamblade since the beta release of this game and it is more difficult to play the class than ever and the most common build I see stamblades running is cloak/bow because trying to brawl as a stamblade is harder than ever.
Like I can kill anything short of a good magicka build/player in imp physique and a very good/tanky stamDK though it takes flawless play on my part and trickery with my damage rotation to do so and if they do something as simplistic as dodgeroll or block my spectral bow/incap because my burst rotation is too obvious I have to cloak out and reset the fight completely. We can't slot a cc right now unless dawnbreaker because we dont do enough damage without using execute over mass hysteria, and that in combination with the cast time on incap strike and the travel time on spectral bow is just cancer.
More often than not I find myself jebaiting nerds with my health bar/feigned low damage output (as everyone currently thinks they can crush a stamblade) in order to kill them which is not something I suspect any casual player of this game to be capable of. Whereas there are other classes that just roll their face on their keyboard and can live through anything, have cc for days, do shortbus burst damage that will one shot or get you very close to it.
Dark cloak needs to be brought back somehow for lower skill players as making shadowy disguise builds easy to play will bring insane amounts of qq back to the forums as past history suggests that the casual player does not know how to mitigate a non-underpowered cloakblade burst rotation.
Though I do miss the days of old viper/veli/shadow walker when cloakblade was as broken as stamDK or magcro currently are. Wrobel where are you I need you back I'm sorry I blamed this games balancing on you.Edited by nublife01 on January 7, 2020 9:26PM0 -
ThePhantomThorn✭✭✭✭I mean my proposed change to hystGatdangmayne wrote: »Gatdangmayne wrote: »Dude have you played any other stam class? Yeah, on my Stamsorc dark deal adds a bit of healing. On stamplar ritual adds a bit as long as i stay in it. On stamden you have trees and green lotus.
They all rely on vigor wtf are you smoking.
If you wanna get that technical, nb also has siphoning strkes which is a better off heal than ritual and basically the same as lotus, except you also get stam back. Oh, and the tether heal is literally the strongest heal in game.
On a stamblade you don't need dark cloak- but if you wanted it, drop fear or shade. On stamden i manage to keep up green lotus and ice fortress, with plenty to spam shimmering shield or flappy wings.
Gtfo
you play on ps4 come to pc lol. this thread is rampant with l2p. but nb needs some buffs most definitely.
I'm not sure if you're suggesting i need to l2p? Lol.
Now I'm not saying there are zero issues with nb...but acting like its by far the weakest is laughable.
The way balance is right now a competent player is going to be just fine on any class they know decently well, and a bad player is going to be stronger on the weakest class than a bad player on the strongest class was when i first started.
No not saying youre bad.
I just think the skill cap on the class is way too high. I have played stamblade since the beta release of this game and it is more difficult to play the class than ever and the most common build I see stamblades running is cloak/bow because trying to brawl as a stamblade is harder than ever.
Like I can kill anything short of a good magicka build/player in imp physique and a very good/tanky stamDK though it takes flawless play on my part and trickery with my damage rotation to do so and if they do something as simplistic as dodgeroll or block my spectral bow/incap because my burst rotation is too obvious I have to cloak out and reset the fight completely. We can't slot a cc right now unless dawnbreaker because we dont do enough damage without using execute over mass hysteria, and that in combination with the cast time on incap strike and the travel time on spectral bow is just cancer.
More often than not I find myself jebaiting nerds with my health bar/feigned low damage output (as everyone currently thinks they can crush a stamblade) in order to kill them which is not something I suspect any casual player of this game to be capable of. Whereas there are other classes that just roll their face on their keyboard and can live through anything, have cc for days, do shortbus burst damage that will one shot or get you very close to it.
Dark cloak needs to be brought back somehow for lower skill players as making shadowy disguise builds easy to play will bring insane amounts of qq back to the forums as past history suggests that the casual player does not know how to mitigate a non-underpowered cloakblade burst rotation.
Though I do miss the days of old viper/veli/shadow walker when cloakblade was as broken as stamDK or magcro currently are. Wrobel where are you I need you back I'm sorry I blamed this games balancing on you.
We all miss wrobel...
And I wish proc sets were still here. But the salty zerglings...1 -
MusCanus✭✭✭✭✭ThePhantomThorn wrote: »And I wish proc sets were still here...
...and able to crit lol.1