Buffs nb needs

ThePhantomThorn

title.

ill throw out a few.

incap - no cast time (soul harvest too)
- remove silence
- add defile
- add stun (maybe)

grim focus - minor berserk.
- take off heal

veiled strike - major fracture and breach on stam and mag morph respectively
- sneak movement applys 2 both morphs

hysteria - snare on enemies hit

soul siphon - no cast time

cripple - add major expedition

and let the salty comments begin

Sanguinor2

Ults w/e, cast times shouldnt have existed in the first place, towards incap replacing the silence with a defile or stun is legit, the silence was a badly planned Concept, with at first being (pts) too strong against all mag Chars and now being a pseudo cc that doesnt give a burst opportunity.

Fear and cripple I can see too, just dont stack the Major Expedition on the magicka steal Morph I guess?

Veiled strike probably never gonna happen, dont think it Needs to either since the only spammable in the game that applies Major debuffs is melee taunt which isnt intended to be a Damage spammable in the first place and nightblade still has Major debuffs unlike some other classes.

Grim Focus, im sorry but no. Just no. Decide if you want the 10% Damage reduction or the minor berserk. Both on the same ability (non ultimate ability btw) would be insanely overloaded. That would make grim Focus passives stronger than a Monster set AND a 5 piece set Bonus combined. And thats also ignoring the amount of Damage it has. Maybe make it scale with the highest resource+damage and have 1 Mitigation Morph and 1 berserk Morph or something.

ThePhantomThorn

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Ults w/e, cast times shouldnt have existed in the first place, towards incap replacing the silence with a defile or stun is legit, the silence was a badly planned Concept, with at first being (pts) too strong against all mag Chars and now being a pseudo cc that doesnt give a burst opportunity.

Fear and cripple I can see too, just dont stack the Major Expedition on the magicka steal Morph I guess?

Veiled strike probably never gonna happen, dont think it Needs to either since the only spammable in the game that applies Major debuffs is melee taunt which isnt intended to be a Damage spammable in the first place and nightblade still has Major debuffs unlike some other classes.

Grim Focus, im sorry but no. Just no. Decide if you want the 10% Damage reduction or the minor berserk. Both on the same ability (non ultimate ability btw) would be insanely overloaded. That would make grim Focus passives stronger than a Monster set AND a 5 piece set Bonus combined. And thats also ignoring the amount of Damage it has. Maybe make it scale with the highest resource+damage and have 1 Mitigation Morph and 1 berserk Morph or something.

yh forgot about mitigation. and i think scaling with max stats would be great. i like merciless affect better than the Christmas tree.

JinxxND

Cast times on ults should be removed all together no one ever asked or thinks that was a good idea.

Incap all it needs is the defile back in place of the silence no stun (the stun is what made it broken in the first place) and remove the 120 ult thing that was put in for a stun that is no longer there

Surprise attack/Concealed I would like to see minor vulnerability for like 4-5 seconds and make it synergies better with dark cloak as you can't use it to off balance people unless you pick the stealth morph

Ambush/Lotus Fan remove the minor vulnerability, lotus fan is already overloaded in what it does with the aoe dot on top of a teleport gap closer that can bypass roots, ambush could be made into a stun instead and remove the empower which is pretty garbage as is or maybe make it a single target disease dot or something for stam to put in on lotus fans level

Fear should have minor maim added to make it at least compete with turn evil which out classes it for stam and you have better options for mag with vamp drain

Cripple or Phantasmal Escape should give major exp over refreshing path. Doesn't make sense that a stealth class goes into stealth then cast a ground aoe that everyone can see to give away their position. That's just dumb.

Grim Focus damage mitigation just further empowers the tank meta and I ask why though. I would either bring back minor berserk or give it or like minor force or sorcery/brutality respectively if this was a move made for PvE dps and lowering nb damage output and have a heal overtime similar to something like crit surge on stam sorc that procs on damage done while active.

Also I would love to see a buff to dark cloak making it more viable in medium armor such a slight increase to the heal scaling or duration increase and allowing it to proc offbalance/stun like the stealth morph.

Also give siphoning strikes more heals per attack since nb has been lacking in the heal department for ever

ThePedge

Reduce cost of Dark Cloak, or increase heal to make it more worthy. It it the best access to Major Resolve passive outside of the melee spammable, limiting build diversity. Nothing too drastic, but Stam classes can't really afford 4k Mag every 8 seconds. Lower than cloak but way higher than any other class counterpart (Ice Fortress 24s)

Give Surprise Attack/Veiled Strike it's Major Fracture/Breach

Imo rework both Siphoning Strikes and Relentless Focus so that one is offensive, one defensive.

So Relentless Focus gets Minor Berserk back, no mitigation. Mitigation on Siphoning Strikes? Or another buff.

Cast time of Ults is gamewide but only NBs is singletarget (of what comes to mind), but all cast time on ults should go.

And Fear a unique buff over the stacked skill that is FG Fear.

Gilvoth

when you are talking about the cast times being removed from ultimates i disagree, why?
because your asking to be able to instantly kill people without allowing other people the time to be able to react and even defend themselves. just instant death in pvp, no ability to survive.
and to quote the developers:
"We added cast times so there is counter play; we felt that having 3-4 abilities hitting you at once, including an Ultimate, is just too much."
is really awesome that they cared enough to add cast times on certain ultimates so we dont instantly die now when we didnt even know we were even in a fight, just BAM Dead, never even had the ability to defend against the attack nor even knew we were in a fight.

i know there is a version of the soul siphen that is only healing, but im referring to the other morph:
An ally can target a nearby enemy and activate the Soul Leech synergy dealing 1104 Magic Damage to them and healing for any damage caused. Damage listed is base damage of a CP 160 with zero CP spent, zero Attribute Points used and zero Skills taken at Rank IV.
was that morph removed?
it still shows this as a damage morph on the wiki unless it was removed and its not showing the updated version.
and that damage kills people instantly and even groups of people if done properly.
it simply too much damage output and its instant.
i hope they never remove the cast times and allow it to be the way it used to be.

JinxxND

Gilvoth wrote: »

when you are talking about the cast times being removed from ultimates i disagree, why?
because your asking to be able to instantly kill people without allowing other people the time to be able to react and even defend themselves. just instant death in pvp, no ability to survive.
and to quote the developers:
"We added cast times so there is counter play; we felt that having 3-4 abilities hitting you at once, including an Ultimate, is just too much."
is really awesome that they cared enough to add cast times on certain ultimates so we dont instantly die now when we didnt even know we were even in a fight, just BAM Dead, never even had the ability to defend against the attack nor even knew we were in a fight.

i know there is a version of the soul siphen that is only healing, but im referring to the other morph:
An ally can target a nearby enemy and activate the Soul Leech synergy dealing 1104 Magic Damage to them and healing for any damage caused. Damage listed is base damage of a CP 160 with zero CP spent, zero Attribute Points used and zero Skills taken at Rank IV.
was that morph removed?
it still shows this as a damage morph on the wiki unless it was removed and its not showing the updated version.
and that damage kills people instantly and even groups of people if done properly.
it simply too much damage output and its instant.
i hope they never remove the cast times and allow it to be the way it used to be.

As for tether bombing cast time or not, attacking someone or a group as you describe from stealth still has the exact same effect with a stun you can't counter so your point is invalid, and as for bombing with CP your better off using onslaught for the 100% spell/phys pen and stacking all other CP into damage which also boost the VD proc and follow up for 5 seconds after and makes sap essense hit harder and better for follow up

khajiitNPC

@Gilvoth I disagree with your assessment. I’ve played 5 years without cast times on ultimates. I’ve somehow and many others, have been able to survive, or we learned to take the L gracefully.

Cast times on ultimates defeat the purpose of them being...well...ULTIMATE.

Also the only people dying instantly to ultimates were the people who never learned to PvP.

I say if there’s going to be cast times, ALL or NONE.

MusCanus

Gilvoth wrote: »

"We added cast times so there is counter play; we felt that having 3-4 abilities hitting you at once, including an Ultimate, is just too much."

"...unless you are a templar, in that case you can keep your sweep with an instant cast time. "

"...cause we are kinda brain dead when it comes to balance and a technical side of the game. But you are welcome to visit our crown store and spend some money on shiny things."

Pretty sure I've read the patch notes this way.

ThePhantomThorn

@Gilvoth
Magsorc hits with 3 - 4 abilities at once and can include overload ult or meteor.

And people who complained were just incapable of pvp.
Incap is single target, dodgable, and melee.
Dragon leap is long range, undodgable, and aoe, and stuns.

Cast times on incap make it almost impossible to land the bow proc after on anyone who isnt a literal potato.
And that’s IF you hit the incap.
But dragon leap, it always lets you land the execute afterwards due to it being a knockback stun.
We need the cast time to be removed.

ThePhantomThorn

And I think fear should make players move away like it did pre elsweyr. Back then it was harder to break it super quick.

JinxxND

You either put cast times on EVERY ULT or take them off all together, simple as that.

Strider__Roshin

Suggestion: move surprise attack to the warden class. Then delete the Nightblade class. ZOS trashed that class.

Hotdog_23

Nigthblades are somewhat of a mess right now, but they where OP before the current changes. Not sure what the answer is but giving more defiles adding snares along with greater movement is not the answer either.

Iskiab

Those would be pretty big buffs!

I’ll add one, make the hot linger when someone leaves refreshing path. I also like the idea of two morphs of merciless: one damage and one tanking.

Solariken

I've got 2:

Detect potions should only work on stealth, not invisibility. They should also only work for the drinker and not the whole freaking alliance.

Piercing Mark needs to last 8 seconds (up from 5).

Trancestor

Ur just asking stamnb to be as OP as it was some patches ago so everyone will complain about it again? Or is that the joke...
Removing cast time from Incap and bringing back the stun instead of silence at 125 ult would be enough since stamnb is already at a very good spot rn.
Remove cloak tho.

Qbiken

Just removing the cast times would be sufficient enough to make nightblade good again. Not saying they're in a bad state, but cast time in incap/soul harvest and the minimum travel time in bow proc needs to be looked at.

ThePhantomThorn

And I think fear should make players move away like it did pre elsweyr. Back then it was harder to break it super quick.

Trancestor wrote: »

Ur just asking stamnb to be as OP as it was some patches ago so everyone will complain about it again? Or is that the joke...
Removing cast time from Incap and bringing back the stun instead of silence at 125 ult would be enough since stamnb is already at a very good spot rn.
Remove cloak tho.

why do people hate cloak? so many counters i use it only for healing or escaping zergs
also, nb takes the most skill to play so shouldn't it be the strongest class?
compare it to templar. the skill gap is huge but the reward isnt good enough.

Trancestor

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

And I think fear should make players move away like it did pre elsweyr. Back then it was harder to break it super quick.

Trancestor wrote: »

Ur just asking stamnb to be as OP as it was some patches ago so everyone will complain about it again? Or is that the joke...
Removing cast time from Incap and bringing back the stun instead of silence at 125 ult would be enough since stamnb is already at a very good spot rn.
Remove cloak tho.

why do people hate cloak? so many counters i use it only for healing or escaping zergs
also, nb takes the most skill to play so shouldn't it be the strongest class?
compare it to templar. the skill gap is huge but the reward isnt good enough.

Cloak is easily countered if you're a DK or Templar, if you're anything else you need to use detect pots which are only 15 seconds, in that time a good nb will play defensive and survive easily and a bad nb usually has teammates around him so they will cover his ass, a detect pot also comes instead of a proper pot which is crucial for sustain especially for stam.

ThePhantomThorn

Trancestor wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

And I think fear should make players move away like it did pre elsweyr. Back then it was harder to break it super quick.

Trancestor wrote: »

Ur just asking stamnb to be as OP as it was some patches ago so everyone will complain about it again? Or is that the joke...
Removing cast time from Incap and bringing back the stun instead of silence at 125 ult would be enough since stamnb is already at a very good spot rn.
Remove cloak tho.

why do people hate cloak? so many counters i use it only for healing or escaping zergs
also, nb takes the most skill to play so shouldn't it be the strongest class?
compare it to templar. the skill gap is huge but the reward isnt good enough.

Cloak is easily countered if you're a DK or Templar, if you're anything else you need to use detect pots which are only 15 seconds, in that time a good nb will play defensive and survive easily and a bad nb usually has teammates around him so they will cover his ass, a detect pot also comes instead of a proper pot which is crucial for sustain especially for stam.

well there is camo hunter and magelight. and aoe stuns like fear, any aoe in fact. which every class has acess to.
any cloakblades who fight me usually find themselves dead very quick. in fact any good player can counter cloakblades easily.
i just go incap - stun - bow. then they die as they are usually insanely squishy.
if you compare it cloak is just as annoying as templar purge or crit surge. its a unique class skill that is a major part of class identity. i wouldnt want other classes unique skills deleted.

Kadoin

MusCanus wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

"We added cast times so there is counter play; we felt that having 3-4 abilities hitting you at once, including an Ultimate, is just too much."

"...unless you are a templar, in that case you can keep your sweep with an instant cast time. "

"...cause we are kinda brain dead when it comes to balance and a technical side of the game. But you are welcome to visit our crown store and spend some money on shiny things."

Pretty sure I've read the patch notes this way.

And yet you can roll dodge the templars ult and/or easily move out of range when you see it with enough movement speed. It also can't be cancelled before you can see it. It must have a cast time or delay of some sort or that would not be possible.

Every ult in the game right now has either a cast time, delay, or channel with delay. But don't let reality sink in, its better to pretend the combat team hasn't actually looked at things.

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

title.

ill throw out a few.

incap - no cast time (soul harvest too)
- remove silence
- add defile
- add stun (maybe)

grim focus - minor berserk.
- take off heal

veiled strike - major fracture and breach on stam and mag morph respectively
- sneak movement applys 2 both morphs

So basically gain the buffs to the skills and remove the nerfs? What a nice call for balance.

I know this is going to sound crazy, but I honestly wonder just how "pro" some of these NBs on the forums really are. The class has native damage reduction and avoidance built in which allows you to spec in other areas if you want (like more damage or sustain) unlike all the other classes, yet according to the forums NB suffers from a lack of damage?

Sorry, that's a hard pass for me.

I actually prefer the damage reduction and heal on grim focus, and both would have to go for that minor berserk back. Unless, of course you aren't looking for balance.

As for incap and soul harvest, cast time or not, I've noticed little difference between the skills and effectiveness but I always play in a person's face or at mid range and only use the skill if they are stunned or are moving towards me anyway.

As for veiled strike - you want to make it buffed better than it was before the changes at all?

Yeah clear agenda...

Rowjoh

stam nightblade is in a great place for me atm.

Loving the survivability most but still able to down many.

Still think Bow needs some love tho. It's much weaker with fewer usable skills than the other weapons.

Axx_Xa

Buff “Mag” blade. TY.

MusCanus

Solariken wrote: »

Detect potions should only work on stealth, not invisibility. They should also only work for the drinker and not the whole freaking alliance.

That would be too much. The only thing I want is some kind of indicator on detect pots like the one on magelight / hunter.
It is really frustrating to have to guess if this was some random aoe that pulled you out of cloak or a detect pot.

Langeston

Trancestor wrote: »

Cloak is easily countered if you're a DK or Templar,

Streak spamming Sorcs actually pull me out of cloak at least as often as Templars & DKs, to be honest. Subterranean Assault & Deep Fissure tend to do it pretty often as well.

if you're anything else you need to use detect pots which are only 15 seconds,

"Only 15 seconds." Is this a joke? You play a Warden, right? If there were potions available to everyone that completely shut down Shimmering Shield for a quarter of a minute how would you like that? Would you think that that isn't long enough & the potions should last longer? Something tells me the answer to that last question would be: "NO."

in that time a good nb will play defensive and survive easily and a bad nb usually has teammates around him so they will cover his ass,

Much of the time a NB tries to cloak it's because they're already getting close to dying, how bad are you that you can't kill the weakest class in the game within 15 seconds of disabling their priamary defensive skill? I play the weakest class in the game & I have no problem killing most other NBs within 5 seconds after popping a potion. You also seem to be oblivious to the fact that anyone can pop a detect pot at any time — so while that NB might have ~30 seconds of safety from you, he still has to worry about being defenseless for another quarter minute if/when any of the other 7 players in the BG pops a potion.

a detect pot also comes instead of a proper pot which is crucial for sustain especially for stam.

Um, build for better sustain then? There are sustain sets & glyphs for precisely that reason. That's exactly what I have to do, what makes you think you shouldn't have to?

The sense of entitlement from other classes amazes me. They all seem to think their class should be able to use 3 damage sets & 3 weapon damage glyphs while still being able to have insane defense & heals, all while never running out of their primary resource. As a NB I have to make serious compromises if I want to do even passable amounts of damage — all of the other classes are able to have their cake & eat it too, but apparently that still isn't enough for you people.

Langeston

MusCanus wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Detect potions should only work on stealth, not invisibility. They should also only work for the drinker and not the whole freaking alliance.

That would be too much. The only thing I want is some kind of indicator on detect pots like the one on magelight / hunter.
It is really frustrating to have to guess if this was some random aoe that pulled you out of cloak or a detect pot.

Yes, this is something I had assumed was already the case & I can't believe it isn't. Seems like a huge oversight.

JinxxND

Rowjoh wrote: »

stam nightblade is in a great place for me atm.

Loving the survivability most but still able to down many.

Still think Bow needs some love tho. It's much weaker with fewer usable skills than the other weapons.

Lol bow is extremely strong, everything in that skill line is good with the exception of the new draining shot that is too expensive for a short snare which performs better like a gap closer now instead of a tool to keep people off you but still has a decent heal, venom arrow which is just a worse but cheaper version of poison inject, and the arrow barrage small radius long duration aoe dot that lost its place in PvE to the PvP morph

Langeston

I'd like to see Swallow Soul get an offensive buff. I've read that it got nerfed quite a bit in the past, but I don't know what the nerfs entailed. I was looking at the skills other classes have, and Swallow Soul is kinda pathetic by comparison.

Compare it to Screaming Cliff Racer for instance:

Swallow Soul:
763 Magic Damage
Heals for 35% of the damage inflicted every 2 seconds for 10 seconds
Casting generates 2 Ultimate, once every 4 seconds.
Increases Maximum Magicka by 8%
Increases your Healing Done by 3%

Screaming Cliff Racer:
763 Magic Damage
Set opponent Off Balance for 7 seconds if 7m away
Deals up to 15% more damage based on how far away the enemy is
Heals for 1260 Health
Casting generates 4 Ultimate, once every 8 seconds
Slotting increases your Magicka and Stamina Recovery by 12%
Slotting increases your damage done by 2%

Can anyone tell me what Swallow Soul looked like pre-nerf?

I don't even use Grim Focus as it's always seemed pretty unreliable for me, although that may just be due to my [relative] unfamiliarity with it — it just never seemed to be up when I needed it. Crystal Frags on my Magsorc is just so much easier & more useful, IMO. I'd be happy if Grim Focus lost some of it's damage but became less tedious to use. And from what I understand, it had Minor Berserk at one point? That seems much more useful to me than the current bonuses it provides.

It seems like most of our skills are pretty weak compared to the other classes though.

Jimmy_The_Fixer

Langeston wrote: »

I don't even use Grim Focus as it's always seemed pretty unreliable for me, although that may just be due to my [relative] unfamiliarity with it — it just never seemed to be up when I needed it. Crystal Frags on my Magsorc is just so much easier & more useful, IMO. I'd be happy if Grim Focus lost some of it's damage but became less tedious to use. And from what I understand, it had Minor Berserk at one point? That seems much more useful to me than the current bonuses it provides.

It seems like most of our skills are pretty weak compared to the other classes though.

Grim Focus is a marquee ability of the nightblade class, many great NBs run stealthless but every top tier nightblade I’ve encountered has ran focus. I would strongly recommend getting more familiar with it.

JinxxND

Honestly can't compare nb to warden lol, I'm 100% sure that class is meant to be the p2w class, literally every damage buff that got nerfed from nb was kept on warden without any justification. Minor berserk, spammable fracture/breach that's on a cheap aoe that does more damage then many ultimates. On top of having an auto purge and ranged minor vulnerability with everything else it has. The class is meant to be op.

As for swallow soul pre nerfs people used to run funnel health as the damage was similar but provided healing for you and an ally, the big nerfs to magblade over the years was the sap essence heal, losing major expedition on cripple/the old blur, losing minor berserk damage, cast times on soul harvest, fear snaring and maiming also causing people to run which helped with landing follow up attacks, the heal ability that cost health used to be an instant rune cage of sorts with a dot attached that broke on damage dealt

The class from what I've seen now performs best as a healer that's extremely hard and annoying to kill, a ganker, 1v1's and as frontline bombers in zerg fights